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Hey all,
I've been experimenting with the rear 4-pin connector on the back of the droid 4 (pogo-pins for the inductive charging rear door)
Connected a current limited power supply to Gnd and Vin on the back of my Droid 4 (pin lower right = gnd, pin lower left = Vin) at 5.0V and I had charging occurring at a nice speedy rate. Screen showed charging, amperage was around 1500mA to start scaling down to 1300mA-1100mA as it reached full charge. It seems to pass through the Lithium Ion battery management circuity so appears to be a safe way to dump in lots of power. Obviously these pins are designed to pick up power from the rear inductive charging cover that Motorola produced, but I wanted to try just pure 5.0V power. It appears that it is not bypassing or defeating the battery temp/overcharging safety circuit but of course test at your own will in a safe environment. I personally noted that if the battery was 'warm' the charge rate was reduced to avoid overtemp. Also it would scale down as the on-screen-indicator showed it was reaching full charge.
I’m thinking of grabbing some extra rear covers and making up some drop-in charging stations or alternative inputs (like solar/etc.)
Nice to get away from having to charge on the USB Micro connector which appears to limit charging current and cause wear-and-tear.
This seems like a VERY good thing if someone was building an external battery pack that fit onto the phone (like the one for the iPhone)…you could power it on, charge via this connector, and shut it down whenever you liked. The power draw on the phone drops off massively once it is charged so if you started with a full charge, it could float the battery all the way to empty.
Time to experiment! My first build will likely be a drop-in docking station.
Again, for reference:
Bottom right (when viewing back, camera at the top):
Gnd is Lower Right – Nearest the microUSB connector
Vin is Lower Left – Opposite side from Gnd on the bottom row
Don’t hit it with too much voltage! I limited myself to about 4.8V and 1700mA max. I'd expect over-voltage on these pins could damage the battery management circuity and fry the phone. I was using a good regulated supply with meters.
Cheers,
This is awesome, thanks for this! Might have to play with a cover and done batteries at some point... Please let us all know how your experiments go!
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using xda app-developers app
I like the idea of an expanded battery very useful.
I have a small solar cell + battery to charge my phone by USB already.
That is bad ass. Post some pics of your first prototype
Sent from my DROID4 using xda premium
Great news, thanks for your time, man.
Just wondering but do you know what the other 2 pins are for?
I got one with a broken usb port for parts and am now wondering if I could use this to build a fix.
Most any (not all) Li-ion battery is rated for at least a 1C charge rate. So with a 1785 mAh Li-ion battery you should be able to safely charge at 1785 mA. The trade off is the faster you charge it the more you reduce overall battery life. For example (not real numbers) if the expected life of the battery is 500 charges (a charge is the amount of current to charge the battery from it's nominal voltage to fully charged and has no correlation to how many times you plug it into a charger) then charging it at 0.75C might increase it's life significantly to 750 to 1000 charges.
Note: the stock wall wart is speced at 850 mA at 5.1 V output (very odd that voltage...).
Brandon314159 said:
Nice to get away from having to charge on the USB Micro connector which appears to limit charging current and cause wear-and-tear.
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More likely it's the power supply. Most all PC usb ports put out 500 mA at 5.0 V. Most (USB) wall warts are rated at 1000 mA at 5.0 V.
What has me worried is that the phone appears to overcharge the battery to something like 4.317 V or even 4.351 V... I'm hoping this is just an error in the phone/app voltage reporting, but then again it could just be the way they get that 1785 mAh capacity from the battery. Overcharging the battery in this way could well be safe and would have the effect of increasing it's capacity, but it will significantly reduce it's life as well. You would not expect a Li-ion battery to be charged over 4.2 V and preferably something like 4.17 V
Can you use those pins to directly measure the battery voltage? I was going to measure mine directly to compare with Battery Monitor Widget reporting but decided I didn't want to remove the sticker from the back of the battery and I couldn't get a reading from the push pin contacts.
Quick7135 said:
What has me worried is that the phone appears to overcharge the battery to something like 4.317 V or even 4.351 V... I'm hoping this is just an error in the phone/app voltage reporting, but then again it could just be the way they get that 1785 mAh capacity from the battery. Overcharging the battery in this way could well be safe and would have the effect of increasing it's capacity, but it will significantly reduce it's life as well. You would not expect a Li-ion battery to be charged over 4.2 V and preferably something like 4.17 V
Can you use those pins to directly measure the battery voltage? I was going to measure mine directly to compare with Battery Monitor Widget reporting but decided I didn't want to remove the sticker from the back of the battery and I couldn't get a reading from the push pin contacts.
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- You cannot use those pins to measure battery voltage as they are an input to the charger... IE they do not tie directly to the battery. You would have to watch the battery voltage at the screws for the battery flex-cable mount.
- There are lots of notes about the battery voltage being 'high' by peoples viewpoints. If you search around, someone explains the difference in chemistry that the Droid 4 is using and that it does have a higher Vmax during bulk/absorption charge levels. I believe the summary was that it is a non-issue. They aren't trying to 'cheat' the battery into higher voltage for more cap...it's just simply how that chemistry wants to be charged. You'll have to google around to find it.
I am curious to see what sort of 'external' packs I can come up with and likely would limit my charging rate to 1200mA or so just to keep things 'happy'. I got slapped pretty hard over at droidforums by an admin and my post removed for this same info...glad to see the community here is more accepting of my discoveries. :cyclops:
-Also, the other two pins are data lines...not sure if In/out compatible but one is Batt Temp and the other is Communication (for determining battery type). The phone doesn't like having these pins futzed with (can cause reboots/lockups) so there is clearly something on the other end...but sounds like the protection is weak regarding input into the processor/etc.
Once I have my phone near a camera, I will photo my connection method/mods (no direct soldering in-case I have to warranty the phone for other issues). That gave me 6" pigtails of wire that I have hiding behind my cheap-o case right now waiting for proper connections (I exited through the speaker hole on the stock back cover).
Brandon314159 said:
I am curious to see what sort of 'external' packs I can come up with and likely would limit my charging rate to 1200mA or so just to keep things 'happy'. I got slapped pretty hard over at droidforums by an admin and my post removed for this same info...glad to see the community here is more accepting of my discoveries. :cyclops:
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which mod did this to u? what reason did he give to do that to u? just want to know... cuz that sounds really uncool
myfishbear said:
which mod did this to u? what reason did he give to do that to u? just want to know... cuz that sounds really uncool
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I don't wanna get anyone in trouble or piss peeps off. PM me if ya want more details.
It was pretty uncool, all things considered.
Oh well, happier here already!
you know what u should add is a resistor and a on/off toggle for safety
Brandon314159 said:
- You cannot use those pins to measure battery voltage as they are an input to the charger... IE they do not tie directly to the battery. You would have to watch the battery voltage at the screws for the battery flex-cable mount.
- There are lots of notes about the battery voltage being 'high' by peoples viewpoints. If you search around, someone explains the difference in chemistry that the Droid 4 is using and that it does have a higher Vmax during bulk/absorption charge levels. I believe the summary was that it is a non-issue. They aren't trying to 'cheat' the battery into higher voltage for more cap...it's just simply how that chemistry wants to be charged. You'll have to google around to find it.
I am curious to see what sort of 'external' packs I can come up with and likely would limit my charging rate to 1200mA or so just to keep things 'happy'. I got slapped pretty hard over at droidforums by an admin and my post removed for this same info...glad to see the community here is more accepting of my discoveries. :cyclops:
-Also, the other two pins are data lines...not sure if In/out compatible but one is Batt Temp and the other is Communication (for determining battery type). The phone doesn't like having these pins futzed with (can cause reboots/lockups) so there is clearly something on the other end...but sounds like the protection is weak regarding input into the processor/etc.
Once I have my phone near a camera, I will photo my connection method/mods (no direct soldering in-case I have to warranty the phone for other issues). That gave me 6" pigtails of wire that I have hiding behind my cheap-o case right now waiting for proper connections (I exited through the speaker hole on the stock back cover).
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Very excited to see those photos. I can't imagine your post getting removed for that sort of information, that is a shame... Hardware mods are just as much fun as software mods, imho! Plus, they have the added bonus that there is a slight risk of explosion, something I err, enjoy
Brandon314159 said:
- You would have to watch the battery voltage at the screws for the battery flex-cable mount.
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Drat. I really didn't want to peal off the sticker... heh, maybe I could just punch through it with the needle probes and only leave 2 tiny holes .
There are lots of notes about the battery voltage being 'high' by peoples viewpoints. If you search around, someone explains the difference in chemistry that the Droid 4 is using and that it does have a higher Vmax during bulk/absorption charge levels. I believe the summary was that it is a non-issue. They aren't trying to 'cheat' the battery into higher voltage for more cap...it's just simply how that chemistry wants to be charged. You'll have to google around to find it.
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I have done a lot of googling and failed. I'm skeptical that I can't find any "new Li-ion chemistry". The only thing I did find was a pointer to an Anandtech article where the writer said he "heard" they were using a "new Li-ion chemistry" ... with no references or cites. In any event I agree it is mostly a non-issue for most everyone else. I figure they have it all designed for some target duty cycle -- probably about 1 year? maybe 2? Thing is, I plan to keep my phone for 4 or more years like all my past smart phones. The difference this time is that the battery is non-removeable (yes, I know it can be done with tools and some risk). I was hoping to find an app that would interface with the battery management and allow a configurable threshold for the "fully charged" cutoff. With a charging cutoff at about 90% I should be able to triple the life of my battery.
sigh... sorry for the hijack (but there isn't much on the actually battery operation, even around here).
Quick7135 said:
I was hoping to find an app that would interface with the battery management and allow a configurable threshold for the "fully charged" cutoff. With a charging cutoff at about 90% I should be able to triple the life of my battery.
sigh... sorry for the hijack (but there isn't much on the actually battery operation, even around here).
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drain the phone and charge it up in charging mode with the stock charger. this will calibrate your battery so it will charge to 100%
myfishbear said:
drain the phone and charge it up in charging mode with the stock charger. this will calibrate your battery so it will charge to 100%
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He wants to make it so it ONLY takes charges to 90%, to extend the duty cycle of the battery. Honestly, I would just not worry about it, and replace the battery as necessary.
Sent from my Amazon Kindle Fire using xda app-developers app
I put my reply over on this thread that you created, which seems to be more on-topic:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1856514
Cheers!
podspi said:
He wants to make it so it ONLY takes charges to 90%, to extend the duty cycle of the battery. Honestly, I would just not worry about it, and replace the battery as necessary.
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You're probably right but I'm not clear on the risks of damage to the hardware when prying out the non-replaceable battery.
Brandon314159 said:
I put my reply over on this thread that you created, which seems to be more on-topic:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1856514
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Thanks. and I do apologize (again) for the interruption here. It won't happen again.
Quick7135 said:
You're probably right but I'm not clear on the risks of damage to the hardware when prying out the non-replaceable battery.
Thanks. and I do apologize (again) for the interruption here. It won't happen again.
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I'd think you'd be at higher risk of damage playing with the software/firmware interface that controls battery charging than doing an actual battery swap.
It appears to be pretty easy: http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Motorola-Droid-4-Teardown/7759/1
No worries on cross posting...just figured better to keep it all over there where there is already a few replies on-topic.
Cheers,
BTW noticed today that the phone says "Charging - Connected to an inductive charging mat" when you connect up power to the back.
I will try to get a shot of the connection when I get home.
My USB port broke... would you think this would charge a completely dead battery.. thank you kindly for your time...
update this will charge a completely dead battery... took an OEM charger cut it open used the red and black... worked perfectly...
why do they call it common sense when only a few people have it...
Hello
Bit of random one but can I charge my nexus 6 with a normal charger say my old Samsung s4 charger?
Don't want to damage my battery or phone but can't see why it would but would rather check.
I'm guessing it will just take longer to charge?
Cheers lee
leekeene said:
Hello
Bit of random one but can I charge my nexus 6 with a normal charger say my old Samsung s4 charger?
Don't want to damage my battery or phone but can't see why it would but would rather check.
I'm guessing it will just take longer to charge?
Cheers lee
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sure, you can use any compatible charger. but to warn you, most normal phone chargers will just take MUCH longer to charge the n6.
Yea no worries on the time. Thinking slower charge over night might be better than leaving it plugged in fully charged for longer. Plus I'm a believer about running battery flat for the first few charges and only have a normal charger at work which is when it will run out next lol
leekeene said:
Yea no worries on the time. Thinking slower charge over night might be better than leaving it plugged in fully charged for longer. Plus I'm a believer about running battery flat for the first few charges and only have a normal charger at work which is when it will run out next lol
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1) You *cannot* run the battery flat. The battery chip WILL shut you down when the voltage drops below a certain threshold.
2) Li-ion batteries DO NOT do well with being deep cycled. The lower you let it drop, the shorter the battery life. This is one of the reasons why they shut you down before it goes flat.
3) The battery has to have a minimum voltage in order to power the circuit that controls charging. Yes, if the battery level drops too low, YOU CAN'T EVEN RECHARGE IT.
It is better for the battery to charge slowly, and to top up frequently.
Hi guys, I just bought the TurboPower charger from motorola since my (refurbished) N6 came with only a usb cable. I am very happy with the blazing fast charge speeds but was wondering if continuing to charge the phone after it reaches 100% battery might have any adverse effect on the battery's health or lifespan? A quick google search revealed little consensus so I'm hoping for an expert to chime in on here.
I tend to charge my phone overnight while I sleep, so with the new charger this means several hours of charging at 100% battery, and naturally the phone gets reasonably warm when undergoing such rapid charging, so I'd like to make sure I'm not causing long-term damage! (especially given that I'm not going anywhere near the Huawei N6 if it really has that hideous raised black bar on the back for the camera :/ )
If indeed this is bad for the battery - would using my (slower charging) old Nexus 4 charger overnight be any better? Or is it a bad idea to mix chargers from different phones? Generally this is a question I've always wondered about actually so it'd be good to finally find out.
Here are the charger's output specs from the motorola page in case that's relevant:
Output
Standard: 5V / 1.67A (8W)
TurboPower: 9V / 1.67A (15W)
TurboPower: 12V / 1.2A (15W)
No. use the normal charger for overnight and turbo charger on the go. or outside.
Cloud White Nexus 6!
XDAcube said:
No. use the normal charger for overnight and turbo charger on the go. or outside.
Cloud White Nexus 6
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"No" as in "no it won't harm my battery to charge past 100%"? If so then why bother with the old charger at all? Sorry if I've misunderstood your answer.
christensen6 said:
"No" as in "no it won't harm my battery to charge past 100%"? If so then why bother with the old charger at all? Sorry if I've misunderstood your answer.
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I ment it as yes it degrades battery life overnight to turbo charge.
christensen6 said:
If indeed this is bad for the battery
Output
Standard: 5V / 1.67A (8W)
TurboPower: 9V / 1.67A (15W)
TurboPower: 12V / 1.2A (15W)
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The turbo is not always on. The M-charger switches to standard when the battery is > 78% charged. So at night your 6 battery is not permanently charged with turbo
The N6-bat has a high capacity of 3400mA/h and suitable for turbocharging.
I use the M-charger with a cheap qi-pad for wireless charging at night. When connected to the Qi-pad the M-charger acts like a standard charger.
When needed I connect the M-charger directly to the phone.
christensen6 said:
"No" as in "no it won't harm my battery to charge past 100%"? If so then why bother with the old charger at all? Sorry if I've misunderstood your answer.
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the previous answers are both correct within a certain context.
all batteries have degradation from charging, although constantly subjecting it to the excessive heat of turbo charging will speed this up.
maybe it will take a year or 18mos before you realize the charge isnt lasting as long as it used to, maybe less. its a guess really.
the point is, dont subject it to turbo charging unless you really need that option. it is the best way to maximize the life span of your battery.
bweN diorD said:
the previous answers are both correct within a certain context.
all batteries have degradation from charging, although constantly subjecting it to the excessive heat of turbo charging will speed this up.
maybe it will take a year or 18mos before you realize the charge isnt lasting as long as it used to, maybe less. its a guess really.
the point is, dont subject it to turbo charging unless you really need that option. it is the best way to maximize the life span of your battery.
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Thanks for the clear response do you happen to know if there is any adverse effect from using a slower charger designed for a smaller battery (like the Nexus 4 charger I am currently using)? I wouldn't have thought so but you never know...
bweN diorD said:
the previous answers are both correct within a certain context.
all batteries have degradation from charging, although constantly subjecting it to the excessive heat of turbo charging will speed this up.
maybe it will take a year or 18mos before you realize the charge isnt lasting as long as it used to, maybe less. its a guess really.
the point is, dont subject it to turbo charging unless you really need that option. it is the best way to maximize the life span of your battery.
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While I agree that all electronic components lifespan is reduced by excessive heat, I don't think that answers the question fully.
Regardless of the charging method employed (standard or turbo) you will not reduce battery lifespan by remaining connected to the charger at 100% capacity.
The method you use to charge a depleted battery to the specified value governed by the phone which disables turbo charge, the increased heat "may" reduce its lifespan.
christensen6 said:
Thanks for the clear response do you happen to know if there is any adverse effect from using a slower charger designed for a smaller battery (like the Nexus 4 charger I am currently using)? I wouldn't have thought so but you never know...
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no it wont. it may just take longer if it cant meet the phones standard charging needs. it would actually be worse for the charger than the battery if it couldnt.
i generally charge mine from an outlet strip with usb charging built in i got off amazon.
a common misconception about chargers is bigger is better. thats generally not the case.
for instance, a charger can state an output of 3a. all that means is the charger "can" output 3a, not that it pushes 3a to the device, because thats simply not how it works.
the device will draw what it needs of that 3a capability. it may be anywhere from 0 to 3a. there is charging circuitry in all devices that controls how much charging power the battery is allowed to have. if you give it less than what it wants, the battery will just charge slower.
hope that helps.
---------- Post added at 06:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:35 PM ----------
blyndfyre said:
While I agree that all electronic components lifespan is reduced by excessive heat, I don't think that answers the question fully.
Regardless of the charging method employed (standard or turbo) you will not reduce battery lifespan by remaining connected to the charger at 100% capacity.
The method you use to charge a depleted battery to the specified value governed by the phone which disables turbo charge, the increased heat "may" reduce its lifespan.
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Click to collapse
actually, reaming connected to any charger while at 100% is not recommended.
the last 5% or so is the worst state for the battery, as is basically tries to cram the last bits of juice in there. when you stay connected, its repeatedly topping off, which is repeating the added stress of getting the last bits of juice in.
im sure i didnt do the best job of explaining that. if you have some free time google "battery university". there is some very good info on there about what im saying, and about li batteries in general.
bweN diorD said:
actually, reaming connected to any charger while at 100% is not recommended.
the last 5% or so is the worst state for the battery, as is basically tries to cram the last bits of juice in there. when you stay connected, its repeatedly topping off, which is repeating the added stress of getting the last bits of juice in.
im sure i didnt do the best job of explaining that. if you have some free time google "battery university". there is some very good info on there about what im saying, and about li batteries in general.
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Trickle charging is not desirable, topping off isn't bad if the charging method doesn't top off to the threshold voltage (Eg. 4.3V), so I guess without more information on a specific device employing a lithium-Ion battery It's hard to say for sure if remaining connected to the charger causes adverse affects.
If you want to get down to the few days or weeks you'll save on the lifespan of your battery you might as well turn it off during each charging cycle to avoid parasitc load, as this can degrade lifespan more than topping off.
I guess it comes down to personal preference overall. Do you want/need the convenience of leaving your device always on (minus occasional reboot) and you prefer starting off with a full capacity battery each day? Or do you prefer your battery will enjoy it's entire intended lifespan? Me personally I choose the former since I don't like to miss calls or notifications while charging and I don't keep a smartphone much longer than a year anyways.
In this thread I read several good suggestions about charging.
But don't forget discharging. Charging, turbocharging and also discharging will shorten the battery life.
Actually, when laptops first came out, if you overcharged them, the battery would explode! :laugh: Luckily engineers designed a way that Lithium Ion batteries dont do this anymore!
charging past 100% will not damage your battery. ive been doing it for the past 10 years. at one point, it would damage the battery, very sightly, over long periods of time. but in todays times, it won't damage it. first off, 100% isnt when it stops charging. it stops charging once it reaches a certain voltage, which is ysually after you reach 100%. yes, even though its plugged in, it will stop charging. and then will charge again, after some voltage leaves it. it will not take in an extra charge. once its done charging, its done, and will not charge more.
NLBeev said:
The turbo is not always on. The M-charger switches to standard when the battery is > 78% charged. So at night your 6 battery is not permanently charged with turbo
The N6-bat has a high capacity of 3400mA/h and suitable for turbocharging.
I use the M-charger with a cheap qi-pad for wireless charging at night. When connected to the Qi-pad the M-charger acts like a standard charger.
When needed I connect the M-charger directly to the phone.
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Click to collapse
+1 I do the same with my M-charge, my qi charge turns off when the phone reaches 100. It doesn't drain that much when it is done charging usually it's still at 100. Before I got root and greenify, it would drain to a max of 4% by the time I woke up.
I've been using both the incipio offgrid, and tumi powerpack battery mods (both are wireless charging variants) and have noticed just awful battery life. from 100% it charges my phone up maybe 15-20 percent, and thats with the screen off, just streaming music. If I'm using the phone (just surfing the web or instagram) the battery dies in around 30-45 minutes, is this normal? I expected alot more out of these. I can just stare at the notification bar and watch as the battery drops, my software is up to date, and I was just wondering if this is normal? Is everyone else getting this awful performance? I expected way more for like 70-80 bucks each...
Sky's Divide said:
I've been using both the incipio offgrid, and tumi powerpack battery mods (both are wireless charging variants) and have noticed just awful battery life. from 100% it charges my phone up maybe 15-20 percent, and thats with the screen off, just streaming music. If I'm using the phone (just surfing the web or instagram) the battery dies in around 30-45 minutes, is this normal? I expected alot more out of these. I can just stare at the notification bar and watch as the battery drops, my software is up to date, and I was just wondering if this is normal? Is everyone else getting this awful performance? I expected way more for like 70-80 bucks each...
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This is not normal. While I don't have either of these, based on the reading I've done and reports I've seen from people who do, the Incipio off grid should be able to charge your phone up 50-75% when attached. Not sure if you have some crazy wakelock that's keeping your CPU maxed out all the time or what, but dying in 30-40 minutes makes no sense.
xxBrun0xx said:
This is not normal. While I don't have either of these, based on the reading I've done and reports I've seen from people who do, the Incipio off grid should be able to charge your phone up 50-75% when attached. Not sure if you have some crazy wakelock that's keeping your CPU maxed out all the time or what, but dying in 30-40 minutes makes no sense.
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When I got it to die In 30-40 min I was on a phone call and surfing instagram. Took the tumi out yesterday with 80% battery in it and had my phones screen off streaming music over Bluetooth. The phone charged up about 25% before the battery pack died. Any ideas on how I could improve the battery life? My moto mods manager is up to date and I don't get any prompts to update anything whenever I snap on the mods
I was surprised when I found this post, so I checked how many percent of battery do I get with a my incipio battery mod. I plugged the mod, my phone's battery was at 15% and the battery mod was at 100%.
Now the Incipio battery mod is empty and my phone's battery is at 50%. So it charged my phone by 35%.
Pretty disappointing for a 2220 mAh battery that costs almost 100€ ...
To me the best use of the mod is to snap it on when the Moto Z Play is fully charged and to chose the option to keep the phone battery at 80%. With normal use, i've seen the mod keep the phone at 80% for up to a day. To me the mod is not meant to charge the phone but more to keep it from discharging.
To me the idea of the battery mod makes no sense.
There is an Aukey 16000 mAh power pack with QuickCharge 3.0 available which boosts the battery in nearly no time. I paid less than 20 Euro.
Who needs such a battery mod with a Moto Z Play which lasts all day under heavy usage?
Who needs such a battery mod when power packs are big, cheap and fast?
Who even needs the power pack if you have a wall outlet with a QuickCharge 3.0 charger boosting the battery percentage in no time? I needed that power pack when the previous phone (Moto X Play) had some hardware defect making it lose power.
Edit: These questions are meant honestly. Are you living in the desert for several days and can't afford to carry a bag?
tag68 said:
To me the idea of the battery mod makes no sense.
There is an Aukey 16000 mAh power pack with QuickCharge 3.0 available which boosts the battery in nearly no time. I paid less than 20 Euro.
Who needs such a battery mod with a Moto Z Play which lasts all day under heavy usage?
Who needs such a battery mod when power packs are big, cheap and fast?
Who even needs the power pack if you have a wall outlet with a QuickCharge 3.0 charger boosting the battery percentage in no time? I needed that power pack when the previous phone (Moto X Play) had some hardware defect making it lose power.
Edit: These questions are meant honestly. Are you living in the desert for several days and can't afford to carry a bag?
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The battery mods are not particularly useful for the Z Play because if you charge every night, you have basically unlimited battery life. Battery packs are extremely useful for the regular Z, though, which has extremely poor battery life on its own. They're basically mandatory for the Z.
I'm shocked that battery mods can only charge your internal battery and can't be used directly (discharging the mod battery instead of the internal battery), the same way Thinkpads that have more than one battery can do. That makes the $80 (vs maybe $10 for a 2000 mah ravpower) cost all the more eyebrow-raising.
I'd love to use them as a way of preserving the sealed in internal battery's longevity, making the internal battery the backup battery and wearing out the easily replaceable, easily swappable mods instead.
fortunz said:
I'd love to use them as a way of preserving the sealed in internal battery's longevity,
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What do you think how a battery should be treated to prolong its lifetime?
This is a serious question. I'm not sure if charging cycles do matter these days. The point which makes batteries getting weak is the age. An additional battery will not help reduce the age.
Of course you should be careful not to be in extreme cold or heat. If the battery is below 30 percent, you should consider to charge it. You should not charge it again if it's over 80 percent. But trying not to use it seems not to really be helpful for the battery to have a longer life, although battery lifetime usually is given in battery cycles. At least this is my experience. If it does not get hot when used or charged, all batteries nowadays start getting weaker a bit after about 2 years, it gets really recognizable after 4 years, and when they are 6-8 years old, they get so low that they may not fulfill there purpose anymore. Cycles? Never recognized any influence for the lifetime. But one hot day with a usage above average where the battery gets hot may really cause a recognizable decrease in capacity.
If you have some source comparing battery lifetime for different use cases (storage, low usage, middle usage, frequent usage, under different conditions of temperature, fast charge and slow charge) I'd be really interested.
tag68 said:
What do you think how a battery should be treated to prolong its lifetime?
This is a serious question. I'm not sure if charging cycles do matter these days. The point which makes batteries getting weak is the age. An additional battery will not help reduce the age.
Of course you should be careful not to be in extreme cold or heat. If the battery is below 30 percent, you should consider to charge it. You should not charge it again if it's over 80 percent. But trying not to use it seems not to really be helpful for the battery to have a longer life, although battery lifetime usually is given in battery cycles. At least this is my experience. If it does not get hot when used or charged, all batteries nowadays start getting weaker a bit after about 2 years, it gets really recognizable after 4 years, and when they are 6-8 years old, they get so low that they may not fulfill there purpose anymore. Cycles? Never recognized any influence for the lifetime. But one hot day with a usage above average where the battery gets hot may really cause a recognizable decrease in capacity.
If you have some source comparing battery lifetime for different use cases (storage, low usage, middle usage, frequent usage, under different conditions of temperature, fast charge and slow charge) I'd be really interested.
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Same sources as you, personal experience and basic knowledge (battery life being measured in cycles). I'm not even completely worried about average aging, but out of a batch of millions of batteries, plenty will start to experience rapid discharge early, even without abnormal heat, not to the point of being completely dead, but certainly no longer tolerable. Today's phone batteries might actually tolerate heat better than in the past, having been built for quick charging, which is the hottest a sd625 seems to get.
I've read manuals and battery university and a few tech blog articles all of which have differing advice, just like you and me, but I have yet to find a source I find credible (based on diverse large scale testing not limited anecdotal evidence or in the case of manuals, insanely outdated nicad-era stuff). And, sincerely no offense intended, I'm unlikely to decide cycles don't matter and weight your anecdotal evidence over mine anymore than you'd weight mine over yours. But if you ever find a good source with those comparisons, I'd be pleased to check it out too.
tag68 said:
Who needs such a battery mod with a Moto Z Play which lasts all day under heavy usage?
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Because I'm a very heavy user of my phone and don't want to worry about power even if I can't get to a outlet during the day.
Who needs such a battery mod when power packs are big, cheap and fast?
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Because the bat mod is easy to slap on and keep on all the time (when I'm not using a different mod). Then I never have to worry about taking the pack with me or not or carrying the extra cable with me or not.
Who even needs the power pack if you have a wall outlet with a QuickCharge 3.0 charger boosting the battery percentage in no time?
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Because I don't want to have to worry about having the charger with me or finding a spot to charge.
I fully admit that I tend to be more paranoid about running out of power than I need to be, but I like to be secure knowing that I should have more than enough battery life, even if I can't charge overnight. I like to know that I can grab my phone at any point of the day and walk out the door with it without having to worry about taking a charger with me.
RedRamage said:
I fully admit that I tend to be more paranoid about running out of power than I need to be, but I like to be secure knowing that I should have more than enough battery life, even if I can't charge overnight. I like to know that I can grab my phone at any point of the day and walk out the door with it without having to worry about taking a charger with me.
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I quite like just not having to charge for three days. I have the battery mod which I use on the efficiency mode, and I got over a full day out of it. At the end of day three I had nearly 30% battery left. Probably enough for most of one more day.
The other thing for me is using wireless charging. I like just slapping my phone on a stand overnight when I do charge it. It charges slowly, yes, but it doesn't matter if I am charging overnight. I still have access to the quick charger if I need to get a full battery quick!
I use mine on my motorcycle where I'm riding for 10 hours a day. I'm at about 50% in 4 hours and dead by 7 or 8, so I'm hoping with the additional battery MOD that I can get at least 12 hours charge. I'm really bad about remembering to plug my phone in when I stop for a break!
@tag68 : dude I think you totally missed to read what @fortunz was saying, he was only pointing that he would like the Mods to be used as a primary source battery instead of being a "ultra-portable power bank".
Given that there is also a fraction of the power being lost in the form of heat, during charge/transfer, it is even more silly from Motorola not to have the battery used directly. I can say by the 25-35% charge from the Mods estimated from other users, that the efficiency is somewhere around 50%, HORRIBLE to say the least.
And yeah I was reading through both of your posts and good information was provided, although unnecessary friction used (not naming anyone).
I actually have kind of the same idea from @fortunz to prolong the battery life of my Z-play even with the mod just being a power bank.
Saying that the mods (~2220mah) charge your phone anywhere between 25-35%, I can actually take the top 25-35% out of my internal battery use and move it to the Mod.
So I can charge my phone up to 70% before going to bed, and then when my phone reaches 30% during the use next day, I'll just slap the mod.
I can allow myself a lot of variation to this, I will not be religious about it, the topic is to avoid hitting 100% charge, and instead, moving the wear of that 30% usage to the Mod.
According, to many articles, citing just one below, considering the depth of discharges and voltage levels, you guys might do the equation if you like, but according to the charts and theory:
charging my phone twice a day trying not to exceed 70%, will give me WAY more longevity run than charging up to 100% every day.
First charge will be from around 15% which is my normal deadline to around 70% with a wall charger, before going to bed.
Second charge will be from the mod from around 30% to around 60% (hopefully), which will give me portability while charging.
Total screen on time during the day, should be around 10% less, but well worth and I can definitely take the hit if getting more battery longevity as a trade.
Source:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Huh, it even makes sense when explaining to other people...
In re: friction, I took no offense from the exchange. Hopefully I didn't cause any either.
Good luck with your efforts. I have considered using this app to to stop charging early: https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/apps-games/root-battery-charge-limit-t3557002 Haven't started using it yet.
fortunz said:
In re: friction, I took no offense from the exchange. Hopefully I didn't cause any either.
Good luck with your efforts. I have considered using this app to to stop charging early: https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/apps-games/root-battery-charge-limit-t3557002 Haven't started using it yet.
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Sadly that application requires root... and I don't want to unlock the bootloader and then having to worry about SafetyNet...
For me SafetyNet is green using Magisk 12.0 as root solution, but that may change of course. But it would help for the battery.
Short rant about this topic: It is strange that the owner of a device can be forbidden to restrict the charging. You bought it, you should be able to do these things with it. Introducing SafetyNet is a bad idea by Google. Security should be made by algorithms, not by hardware. Using public key anyone may modify anything, and you can still assure the content to be trustworthy. There no need to prove the Android not to be modified, it is just a bad idea, unnecessary restricting the user. Owner.
tag68 said:
For me SafetyNet is green using Magisk 12.0 as root solution, but that may change of course. But it would help for the battery.
Short rant about this topic: It is strange that the owner of a device can be forbidden to restrict the charging. You bought it, you should be able to do these things with it. Introducing SafetyNet is a bad idea by Google. Security should be made by algorithms, not by hardware. Using public key anyone may modify anything, and you can still assure the content to be trustworthy. There no need to prove the Android not to be modified, it is just a bad idea, unnecessary restricting the user. Owner.
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Well said
Thanks for the tip! I'll have it mind!
At the moment I don't feel like unlocking the bootloader because I'm planning to use the moto Mods and these can't be used with custom ROMs yet, and I have no use for root other than changing the work mode on Greenify but it already works well enough in No-Root mode, so for me there is no true benefit.
A good resource for lithium batteries are rc helicopter forums. Helis use speed controllers of many tens of amps, drain the batteries in minutes versus days to low levels and charge them at high speed. What reduces their life is heat, overcharging the voltage or over discharging the voltage. They do not age if left in a partial charge. You can let them sit for years unused and they will lose very little capacity. If you only run them at 70%cycle, they last about 3000 cycles.
Well, that was weird.
Phone at 9%, mophie mod at 100%. Put it on, barely used the phone (even took a nap). About an hour later, the mophie mod is at 50%, but the phone actually went down to 8%. Took off the mod and the phone went immediately to 4%. Ouch.
Mod normally works fine. It'll keep the phone at 80% for most of the day just fine. Not sure what was going on.
For you who use AccuBattery app to monitor your battery usage, can you share yours?
Because mine is showing my battery health is only 47%. I think it's maybe, just maybe, the app only read half of the battery capacity. Since this phone is actually have two batteries installed in a single pack of battery.
With this phone I got around 6 hours of screen on time with 70% battery usage (from 90 - 20%).
It's normal SOT for this phone right?
I attached my SS from the app. I use version 1.2.7-2 build 45.
Yeah yours are pretty normal. I have a similar results.
Maybe the 50 watt charging is degrading the battery at a rapid pace,
Maybe this app is not very accurate.
I've seen others complaining about this app with other phones but hopefully here it's just estimating one of the two batteries
andrejd1 said:
Yeah yours are pretty normal. I have a similar results.
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Thanks for sharing. We have the same battery performance.
manus31 said:
Maybe the 50 watt charging is degrading the battery at a rapid pace,
Maybe this app is not very accurate.
I've seen others complaining about this app with other phones but hopefully here it's just estimating one of the two batteries
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Pretty sure it's not because the rapid charging, if so the phone is a disaster.
The app is most possible reason.
smart_thingup said:
Thanks for sharing. We have the same battery performance.
Pretty sure it's not because the rapid charging, if so the phone is a disaster.
The app is most possible reason.
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Here's hoping,I'm getting mine next week and I'm already very skeptical of the vooc charging,I've seen nothing from Realme or Oppo in regards to it's testing or how it affects the degradation of battery.Because of this and I want the battery to last a few years I will be charging with a 18w charger,using the vooc charger occasionally
manus31 said:
Here's hoping,I'm getting mine next week and I'm already very skeptical of the vooc charging,I've seen nothing from Realme or Oppo in regards to it's testing or how it affects the degradation of battery.Because of this and I want the battery to last a few years I will be charging with a 18w charger,using the vooc charger occasionally
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At first I also skeptical about the Super VOOC charging, I think it will damage battery faster, especially because of heat while charging.
And then, turns out to be more make sense because it use dual battery. And with my experience using this phone, there's no heat problem while charging. Not from the hand feel and not from the system temparature reading.
Since the charging is super fast, I usually put the phone at idle for about 5 minutes to cool down the phone before charging and put on airplane mode while charging to prevent over hear and keep the battery as cool as possible. After several try different circumstances of charging condition, I think Super VOOC is doing just fine.
smart_thingup said:
At first I also skeptical about the Super VOOC charging, I think it will damage battery faster, especially because of heat while charging.
And then, turns out to be more make sense because it use dual battery. And with my experience using this phone, there's no heat problem while charging. Not from the hand feel and not from the system temparature reading.
Since the charging is super fast, I usually put the phone at idle for about 5 minutes to cool down the phone before charging and put on airplane mode while charging to prevent over hear and keep the battery as cool as possible. After several try different circumstances of charging condition, I think Super VOOC is doing just fine.
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I'm sure it's safe and all very good but I still think it will be too difficult to maintain the battery and make it last a few years. I like to keep the battery between around 40 to 85 and it's not recommend to fully charge modern phone batteries aswell as not fully draining them,there is only so many cycles for the batteries lifetime,around 500 or so,
here we have two batteries but still that does not matter,
I will be using in and around 18w charger but might try my OnePlus charger to see if that is any quicker to find a happy medium
manus31 said:
I'm sure it's safe and all very good but I still think it will be too difficult to maintain the battery and make it last a few years. I like to keep the battery between around 40 to 85 and it's not recommend to fully charge modern phone batteries aswell as not fully draining them,there is only so many cycles for the batteries lifetime,around 500 or so,
here we have two batteries but still that does not matter,
I will be using in and around 18w charger but might try my OnePlus charger to see if that is any quicker to find a happy medium
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OnePlus charger will give you VOOC charging. I think that will suit you.
smart_thingup said:
OnePlus charger will give you VOOC charging. I think that will suit you.
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Yes should give around 27 to 30 watt charge,that would be perfect.Wil test it and see,getting phone tomorrow according to my national post
manus31 said:
Yes should give around 27 to 30 watt charge,that would be perfect.Wil test it and see,getting phone tomorrow according to my national post
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Got phone today,the 50 watt charge is lightning fast,
My OnePlus 6T charger is also lightning,think it's about 27w charger. My 6T battery must have a problem as the charging has slowed over time on that. I'm only noticing again how fast the dash charger is on the X2 pro
Have been using Accubattery for few days now and have similar stats to you guys,48% battery health and estimated capacity of 1913mAh,
Maybe Accubattery can improve the software for these type of phones which have two separate batteries
have the same result. maybe an update with the app can result in a more accurate reading.
Guys it's normal, this phone has a battery made of 2 1950mAh cells that charge in parallel. This means that Accubattery (which reads the stats based on voltage and current) can only read a single cell charge.
I also read some strange comments here, so let's dismantle a myth: SuperVOOC WON'T damage your battery much more than normal fast charging. Having 50W on a single battery would be absurd, instead this power is distributed between the two cells, resulting in a charge of 5V and 5A per cell (pretty standard, 5V is super safe because it's the same as the cell voltage, and current is similar to other manufacturer quick charge currents). Having 5V input is also better for heat, because it doesn't need conversion (see Qualcomm Quickcharge which can input 5/9/12/15V).
Of course heat is the worst enemy of a battery life, but try not to use it while charging for those 25/30mins needed for a full charge and you'll be good to go.
I hope this clarifies things for people scared of using the boxed charger.
danypava said:
Guys it's normal, this phone has a battery made of 2 1950mAh cells that charge in parallel. This means that Accubattery (which reads the stats based on voltage and current) can only read a single cell charge.
I also read some strange comments here, so let's dismantle a myth: SuperVOOC WON'T damage your battery much more than normal fast charging. Having 50W on a single battery would be absurd, instead this power is distributed between the two cells, resulting in a charge of 5V and 5A per cell (pretty standard, 5V is super safe because it's the same as the cell voltage, and current is similar to other manufacturer quick charge currents). Having 5V input is also better for heat, because it doesn't need conversion (see Qualcomm Quickcharge which can input 5/9/12/15V).
Of course heat is the worst enemy of a battery life, but try not to use it while charging for those 25/30mins needed for a full charge and you'll be good to go.
I hope this clarifies things for people scared of using the boxed charger.
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I was a bit apprehensive about the super vooc at the start but I've only ever used it since I got the phone. I will say it's so much more useful for my use a d I can literally charge it twice a day for 10 to 15 minutes each time.Phone does heat up quite a bit though,like it's warm every time I take it off the charge.
I'm just hoping it will be as quick this time next year and the battery holds out
danypava said:
Guys it's normal, this phone has a battery made of 2 1950mAh cells that charge in parallel. This means that Accubattery (which reads the stats based on voltage and current) can only read a single cell charge.
I also read some strange comments here, so let's dismantle a myth: SuperVOOC WON'T damage your battery much more than normal fast charging. *1 Having 50W on a single battery would be absurd, instead this power is distributed between the two cells, resulting in a charge of 5V and 5A per cell (pretty standard,*2 5V is super safe because it's the same as the cell voltage, and current is similar to other manufacturer quick charge currents). Having 5V input is also better for heat, because it doesn't need conversion (see Qualcomm Quickcharge which can input 5/9/12/15V).
Of course *3 heat is the worst enemy of a battery life, but try not to use it while charging for those 25/30mins needed for a full charge and you'll be good to go.
I hope this clarifies things for people scared of using the boxed charger.
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*1 - could you elaborate on this here a tad bit more? What is the advantage of pumping power into two cells with total capacity of 4A/h put next to running a single cell with the same amount of power, with the cell being 4A/h too?
*2
This is simply not true. Mass production liPo cells are manufactured with 3.7V nominal voltage, 3V min. voltage and 4.2V max. voltage. When discharging a li-po cell your under-load voltage wouldn't zap anywhere outside the range of 3 - 4.2 volts at any point. If it did you would be saying ciao to that cell in the upcoming month.
According to what Ive learned past the last 12years of dealing with LiPos in my radio controlled aircrafts and, cell phones, smartphones, battery banks and so on and so on.. I am yet to see a mass production lithium cell whose "cell voltage" is 5 volts..? Sooo.. where do you get that from?
Do you have the kind of information that I am struggling to find on the inet right now? Such as who is the outsourced manufacturer of cells for realme? What is the grouping method of the two cells in our x2pro when charging - parallel or series?
The answer on the later two questions will paint it all as to what can we expect from the battery in our phones for the forseeable future.
*3
Heat is the result of charging and discharging the cell at higher than usually considered healthy charging and discharging rates. As far as Im concerned I don't think that realme are in possession of any advanced battery tech, and would be much more oriented towards trustworthy tested day in-day out type of chemistry in their batteries. Specially at the price point of my x2pro.
Taking into consideration that I can only conclude that realme are driving these cells at their maximum tolerance of charging current. I would be pretty entertained if the juice in this device is satisfactory past the 2 year mark. And shocked at the same time.
This has been spoke about before by oppo themselves and is available on the internet, it's 2x batteries at 2000mah each... The batteries are charged at the same time but independently and each battery is monitored at all times for heat etc... Total voltage is split between both to not apply to much pressure and as the batteries are 2000mah each it's obviously Parallel as you get total 4000mah.
Realme x2 pro has two batteries
Hey guys hope you are aware that realme x2 pro has 2 batteries of approximately 2000mah each and not one single 4000mah battery. That is what gives it the charging speed and the battery health is not affected because of the ingenious way VOOC works. You can watch the video on youtube. AccuBattery is not designed for phones with two batteries. Maybe we can expect compatibility for realme x2 pro in a future update.
Ab97 said:
Hey guys hope you are aware that realme x2 pro has 2 batteries of approximately 2000mah each and not one single 4000mah battery. That is what gives it the charging speed and the battery health is not affected because of the ingenious way VOOC works. You can watch the video on youtube. AccuBattery is not designed for phones with two batteries. Maybe we can expect compatibility for realme x2 pro in a future update.
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Just declare it as 2000 mAh and you're good.