Database Develop

T-Mobile - deceptive advertising

Warning for anyone taking out a Kaiser/Vario III on T-Mobile:
"The Vario III is a stylish and powerful pocket PC offering one of the best mobile internet experiences on the market - with 1.8MBps HSDPA, surfing and downloading is super fast."
This is a lie. T-Mobile have disabled the HSDPA on all new connections, unless you pay an extra £5/month for Web n Walk Plus. They are doing bait-and-switch.
They claimed to me I would not notice the difference because the data is compressed or some such lies. They said they cannot enable it, even though my existing line has it enabled. They claimed they would be removing it from existing customers on Web N Walk.
T-Mobile make NO MENTION on their site of the fact that if you want to make full use of your phone, you need to pay an extra £180 over the course of the contract for the cheapest contract, to get the feature of the phone that you have paid for.
They don't care. They don't inform people.
A complaint has been submitted to Trading Standards about their website's lies.

Well, you certainly got a point about T-mobile trying to shake as much money from you as possible, but they don't exacly lie about the capabilities of the phone.

I can empathize, but £5 per month is not that much for a higher level of service. I'd rather have such a tiering system where higher users pay a small amount more than to have ridiculously low fair use limits like O2 and Vodafone.
This way - pay less, get less. Pay more, get more.
Its clearer this way.
BTW, isnt it an extra £90 (£5x18)?
Surur

ionide said:
Well, you certainly got a point about T-mobile trying to shake as much money from you as possible, but they don't exacly lie about the capabilities of the phone.
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Agreed and althought it is £90 you are also likely to get money off the phone in the first place for being on a more expensive tariff.

Although it may not be technically a lie, this is just another typical example of misleading ads to attract gullible punters. Yes you would be naive to get into an expensive phone/contract combination before reading the small print. But I do sympathise; the statement makes it very easy to believe you get HSDPA out of the box, which you don't unless you have the right contract.

ionide said:
Well, you certainly got a point about T-mobile trying to shake as much money from you as possible, but they don't exacly lie about the capabilities of the phone.
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Click to collapse
They do, because it's locked to T-Mobile, and on T-Mobile's advertised tariff, it is NOT capable of HSDPA.
So it is not actually capable of HSDPA.
And I agree that their tariffs are very reasonably priced. I just think they should be honest and up-front, and not promote several phones as having 'super-fast HSDPA internet', without explaining anywhere that the 'web n walk' they promote people to get doesn't let you do that, and not explaining anywhere that you won't get HSDPA without paying more money.

Modgy said:
Although it may not be technically a lie, this is just another typical example of misleading ads to attract gullible punters. Yes you would be naive to get into an expensive phone/contract combination before reading the small print. But I do sympathise; the statement makes it very easy to believe you get HSDPA out of the box, which you don't unless you have the right contract.
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Click to collapse
Nope, that's where you're wrong.
The issue is, there is no small print. I have no problems with an advert saying 'super-fast internet with HSDPA (*)' and then in tiny writing saying 'only on Web N Walk Max Plus tariff'.
Read all of T-Mobile's website, nowhere does it say that you have to get Web N Walk Plus to get HSDPA.
If you look at this, for instance:
http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/content/business/uk/business-1/flash/t-mobile-1plan-landing-calculator.swf
and select Data, it says 'All data bundles are HSDPA enabled'

surur said:
I can empathize, but £5 per month is not that much for a higher level of service.
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Agreed, it's a reasonable charge, but not if you sign people up first and tell them later.
BTW, isnt it an extra £90 (£5x18)?
Surur
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Nope.
http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobi...onthly/t-mobile/mda-vario-iii/webnwalk/plans/
£22.50 for Flext 20 + Web N Walk
There's no Flext 20 with the WNW+, so you have to get Flext 25:
£32.50 for Flext 25 + Web N Walk Plus

thelawnet said:
So it is not actually capable of HSDPA.
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Click to collapse
Getting a bit into semantics here, but the phone is still "capable" of HSDAP (from the technical viewpoint - capable refers to a possibility) - all it needs is activation.

thelawnet said:
Agreed, it's a reasonable charge, but not if you sign people up first and tell them later.
Nope.
http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobi...onthly/t-mobile/mda-vario-iii/webnwalk/plans/
£22.50 for Flext 20 + Web N Walk
There's no Flext 20 with the WNW+, so you have to get Flext 25:
£32.50 for Flext 25 + Web N Walk Plus
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Click to collapse
Ah, I understand.
Surur

The issue is, there is no small print
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You are right, I was confused with the other "perks" of WnW+. The link however only takes me to the Business 1 Plan, which I don't think is related to the WnW plans. Would be interesting to find out if anyone on a Business 1 Plan can confirm/deny HSDPA access.
It has actually taken me ages to find out about the HSDPA situation; it was only on this and other forums that I learned what TM have been telling people through Customer Services. Not nice.
That's why I'm on PAYG, everything else is just not worth the hassle to me

Getting a bit into semantics here, but the phone is still "capable" of HSDAP
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Yeah well, that it can do that is widely known, I don't think anybody need T-Mobile to tell them this. It's the fact that you have to bend over backwards to find out how that hurts.

On the first day of upgrading to my Vario 3 I rang T-mobile and asked for HSDPA to be enabled.
This was done with them only asking one question "are you going to connect your phone to your laptop?" naturally I said "no" and she enabled it...no fuss...no muss...
I have heard of the problems some people have had but as previously stated no where does it require you to upgrade to web and walk plus.

Might be too early to know, but does that mean, that if the HSDPA is not enabled, then it wont display an H symbol? only G and 3G?
I tried to go to some sites that check broadband speed, but the java wouldnt load up.. anybody know of a site that works on PIE?

dhpotter said:
Might be too early to know, but does that mean, that if the HSDPA is not enabled, then it wont display an H symbol? only G and 3G?
I tried to go to some sites that check broadband speed, but the java wouldnt load up.. anybody know of a site that works on PIE?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.speedtest.bbmax.co.uk/ works if you have flash installed

If its not enabled it will only display the "3G" icon if you are connected online, once its enabled and online it will change to "H".

Thanks for the post jameson_uk.
I started a new contractlast week with T-mobile, buying off the webpage flext 35 with walk n talk (£7.50) and my H seems to come up, occasionaly it goes to 3g.
I havent enabled anything yet? wonder if there was a threshold value they put it on? or if they havent disabled the webpage hi speed enabling yet.

wow in Europe they charge you to use HSDPA? Here in the states is use it if its available. Sprint (CDMA) has vision that works on 1xRtt at $15 and power vision EVDO also starting at $15. When RevA device is available, it will also be $15. AT&T has Media Max $20 for dumbphones, SmartMax $30 for smartphones and PDA personal max $40 fo PDA phones. It doesnt matter if you have 2G or 3G device or if its UMTS or HSDPA device. The cost is the same. Just the account has to provision it. Infact, my account is only provisioned for UMTS but my data connects to HSDPA. while tethering, google maps downloads new maps peak at 1.8mbps.

thelawnet said:
Warning for anyone taking out a Kaiser/Vario III on T-Mobile:
"The Vario III is a stylish and powerful pocket PC offering one of the best mobile internet experiences on the market - with 1.8MBps HSDPA, surfing and downloading is super fast."
This is a lie. T-Mobile have disabled the HSDPA on all new connections, unless you pay an extra £5/month for Web n Walk Plus. They are doing bait-and-switch.
They claimed to me I would not notice the difference because the data is compressed or some such lies. They said they cannot enable it, even though my existing line has it enabled. They claimed they would be removing it from existing customers on Web N Walk.
T-Mobile make NO MENTION on their site of the fact that if you want to make full use of your phone, you need to pay an extra £180 over the course of the contract for the cheapest contract, to get the feature of the phone that you have paid for.
They don't care. They don't inform people.
A complaint has been submitted to Trading Standards about their website's lies.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would like to see some kind of source to this before I give it any credence. I'm quite happily getting a full HSDPA connection on my standard WnW package, and the website still says it applies to all WnW packages. So, source?

FloatingFatMan said:
I would like to see some kind of source to this before I give it any credence. I'm quite happily getting a full HSDPA connection on my standard WnW package, and the website still says it applies to all WnW packages. So, source?
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Click to collapse
http://www.4winmobile.com/forums/4wm-news/12652-t-mobile-remove-hsdpa-web-n-walk-basic-package.html

How much can you tether?

How much can you tether out of the g1 data plan? I dont know if theres a limit or not

sasha101 said:
How much can you tether out of the g1 data plan? I dont know if theres a limit or not
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5GB limit i think, on unlim data plan per month.

Ace42 said:
5GB limit i think, on unlim data plan per month.
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so much for unlimited haha.
but thanks, i was wondering that too

I thought it was 10GB and then they could strain the speeds or stop it all together?

10 Gigs.
Not a lot of movies.

Carloswithac said:
10 Gigs.
Not a lot of movies.
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Oh the tmo guy told me 5Gb, then they put a lock or something on your data.

Ace42 said:
Oh the tmo guy told me 5Gb, then they put a lock or something on your data.
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It should be more than this... we pay unlimited for a reason. Ill send a complaint email to T-Mobile

legend221 said:
It should be more than this... we pay unlimited for a reason. Ill send a complaint email to T-Mobile
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Click to collapse
It is unlimited, but after 5gigs they slow it down, probably to discourage you from using anymore

tether limit
i heard there is a soft cap after 5 or 10 gig but i use a **** lot and never experienced any slow down. i dont do torrents over it tho. any1 know how to set this up? set utorrent (or whatever) to use a certain port?

i used my laptop every day with my g1 tethered and it never slowed down downloaded music and movies on it also

Yeah, I think we would be pressed to find anyone who could say, "I was limited by T-Mobile because I downloaded too much."

Tmo used to have a data cap. It was 3Gb. Most other carriers have a 5-10Gb soft cap. Tmo, however, has removed the data cap, so that unlimited is now unlimited. (unless this has been changed in the last couple months, if so, someone correct me)

JAguirre1231 said:
It is unlimited, but after 5gigs they slow it down, probably to discourage you from using anymore
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Click to collapse
A CS agent told me there will be a slow down too. Bummer!

legend221 said:
A CS agent told me there will be a slow down too. Bummer!
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Click to collapse
It is, just glad that I only use tether very rarely. Mostly when on the road, which is almost never

Unlimited data is unlimited, but this is how it works. After 10 GB, they kick you down to Edge. I don't have 3G here in El Paso, even though T-Mobile claims El Paso is a 3G city (it runs in MOST places only along I-10), so it doesn't matter to me anyway. I'm always on Edge.
My best friend works for T-Mobile and told me about how they throttle you down to Edge.

MetalMessiah78 said:
Unlimited data is unlimited, but this is how it works. After 10 GB, they kick you down to Edge. I don't have 3G here in El Paso, even though T-Mobile claims El Paso is a 3G city (it runs in MOST places only along I-10), so it doesn't matter to me anyway. I'm always on Edge.
My best friend works for T-Mobile and told me about how they throttle you down to Edge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if they do kick you down to edge i wonder if it is possible to go back to 3G using anycut the way i used to be on 3G only

Unfortunately, there wouldn't be a way, because T-Mobile would be throttling your speed from their end. Your phone would still show the 3G logo, but the speed would be throttled to Edge. When the month is up though, your restriction would be removed.

tmobile said
tmobile told me that there is no gap on the network for android, but they will throttle your data after so much use within the month

throttling by tmo?

anyone feel like theyre being throttled by tmo? im in the socal region and i dont even have 500mB used for unlimited data. i think i read somewhere they will hold your speed back if youve used over a gig or two, but 500megs?
btw, i usually get >2mb/s, but recently have been getting .5mb/s..

No throttling in Dallas. I tethered my laptop to download a ~700 Mb file this past weekend (I don't usually do that, but I needed to). Still pulling anywhere from 2-4 Mb/s

Possibly network upgrades happening.
(Give them a call and find out)

Bandwidth can be throttled by the number of users, more users less bandwidth to go around.

I Just talked to a csr at tmo and if you have unlimited data with the nexus you will not be throttled OR capped.
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Sent via the XDA Tapatalk App

hopefully there are network updates/upgrades being done. this has been the case since friday.

yeah, it's not throttling. they would push you below 500 kb/s if that were the case.
in my city, 500 kb/s is the most we get on T-Mo's 3G.. oh well.

I use around 5 gbs a month, no throttling here

Wouldn't they just shut off your 3g and force you to use edge speeds?

coldchillen said:
hopefully there are network updates/upgrades being done. this has been the case since friday.
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Click to collapse
Same issue here - Chicago area. Dropped calls, no service, Emergency calls only and lousy 3G coverage. On G1 and N1. Hoping it's an upgrade....

I seriously doubt t-mobile is throttle speeds. On ATT in la I pull down 2.5 mbps though.

btw are you guys on the android plan?

i doubt it... tmobile has half of the subscribers that ATT does and has just as good of a network... they have no reason to throttle people...

JHaste said:
i doubt it... tmobile has half of the subscribers that ATT does and has just as good of a network... they have no reason to throttle people...
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i would say they are better, they know they have android power users and treat us as such, not like childish data wasters like AT&T has done. They also have been recently updating their network that surpasses AT&T soon enough.

^agreed, their network upgrades makes my n1 worthwhile, also I've been with them for about 6.5 years because they're the cheapest and they've got pretty good customer service

Verizon plans to end all unlimited data plans

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story...ush-users-data-share/2012-05-16#ixzz1v3jKBWDs but we can stop them click next link to help
http://www.change.org/petitions/sto...unlimited-data-plans-for-existing-subscribers please sign
Sent from my Awesome MotoMaxx

Verizon, ATT, and T-Mobile already don't allow unlimited data since years ago.

What the plan now is is to kill it for those grandfathered in, like myself.
I call shenanigans!
Im sorry but in this day and age, the bandwidth costs them nothing.
Sent from my DROID3 using xda premium

jediman said:
What the plan now is is to kill it for those grandfathered in, like myself.
I call shenanigans!
Im sorry but in this day and age, the bandwidth costs them nothing.
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I believe that so long as you stay on your current contract and buy phones unsubsidized, you'll be able to keep the unlimited data.
What makes you think that bandwidth costs nothing? Are you saying that the backhaul bandwidth from every tower costs Verizon nothing?

doogald said:
I believe that so long as you stay on your current contract and buy phones unsubsidized, you'll be able to keep the unlimited data.
What makes you think that bandwidth costs nothing? Are you saying that the backhaul bandwidth from every tower costs Verizon nothing?
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This is a good idea... As long as you don't plan on getting 4G data in the future. I may try to go to 4G a.s.a.p. so that I can slide in with unlimited 4G now.

As have seen with the bootloader petition, Moto-whorea is immune to petitions. Like tackle to Gengar...

doogald said:
I believe that so long as you stay on your current contract and buy phones unsubsidized, you'll be able to keep the unlimited data.
What makes you think that bandwidth costs nothing? Are you saying that the backhaul bandwidth from every tower costs Verizon nothing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only on the towers they don't own.
Its like charging for a text. It uses negligable bandwidth.
I would actually be ok with non unlimited so long as map data doesn't count.
Most downloading is done for me via wifi. 3g is too damn slow to me and 4g isn't that much faster imho for what I do. Most of what goes on on my phone while on 3g is email from work.
But so long as they don't count map data, which I do use a lot of when traveling (gps nav) I am ok. 2gb/4gb I can do easy.
Sent from my DROID3 using xda premium

New Pre-Paid Player in the Game (US) - Aio Wireless

It looks like AIO wireless just opened up for all of the US. Until a few days ago they were only available in a hanful of states but I just checked today and it looks like they are now nation wide. Uses AT&T network. Unlimited text and talk. Prices include taxes and fee's.
$55 - 2GB high speed (LTE capped @ 8mbs and HSPA+ capped at 4mbs) then throttled to slower speeds when monthly limit is reached.
$70 - 7GB high speed (LTE capped @ 8mbs and HSPA+ capped at 4mbs) then throttled to slower speeds
I just got my N4 last week and signed up with Straight Talk (AT&T sim) for a month but knew I would be switching to AIO when they were available. I have read to many horror stories about Straight Talks sneaky ways with what they call unlimited data. I would rather go with a company that tells you exactly what you are really getting up front rather then lying about it or possibly disconnecting your service.
I tried T-Mo but the service was terrible...Now just need to wait to the end of the month to make the move...Post your thoughts here if you sign up. Also will give the 3rd month free on new activations!
This seems like a really good option for people with unlocked phones and require a nice amount of data.
http://www.aiowireless.com/home.html

Finally! I've been waiting for them to go nationwide. I use GoPhone right now and it's great, but I'm always looking for newer, better deals. I might try AIO for the 7gb plan for a month or two. If I don't end up using nearly that, I'll either switch to the $55 plan, or back to GoPhone, depending on AIO's speeds/service. One thing to note: they throttle your speeds even before your cap. I can't remember exactly, it's in the terms and conditions. Something like 6 mb/s or so. After your data cap, I think it's throttled to 2G speeds.

Johmama said:
Finally! I've been waiting for them to go nationwide. I use GoPhone right now and it's great, but I'm always looking for newer, better deals. I might try AIO for the 7gb plan for a month or two. If I don't end up using nearly that, I'll either switch to the $55 plan, or back to GoPhone, depending on AIO's speeds/service. One thing to note: they throttle your speeds even before your cap. I can't remember exactly, it's in the terms and conditions. Something like 6 mb/s or so. After your data cap, I think it's throttled to 2G speeds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now that you mention it I think I did read something about the speeds they offer and it might be around 6-7mbs. That is more then enough speed to do anything you really need to do anyway.

I believe they throttle LTE down to 8mb/s. It is a shame they throttle before you hit your cap. Otherwise the 5 dollar difference in price over GoPhone is not worth it to me.

bozzykid said:
I believe they throttle LTE down to 8mb/s. It is a shame they throttle before you hit your cap. Otherwise the 5 dollar difference in price over GoPhone is not worth it to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it is 8mbs capped which is pretty fast. What can you not do at those speeds anyway? You can stream Netflix or Youtube. I think Netflix for my TV says it only requires 5mbs for streaming.
I guess for the smaller plan it might be a wash although it is still more then $5 for GoPhone after taxes and fee's but if you want 7gigs of data, $70 for Aio vs. Go Phones $70 for 3gigs it seems like a no brainer.

From their page on data speeds:
4G LTE service currently offers download speeds up to 8 Mbps and our 4G HSPA+ service currently offers download speeds up to a maximum of 4 Mbps. On our 3G HSPA/UMTS service, typical download speeds range from approximately 700 Kbps up to 1.7 Mbps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are the speeds on GoPhone?

Dynotrick said:
From their page on data speeds:
What are the speeds on GoPhone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On Straight talk I just speed tested at 5.3mbs on an AT&T sim. I have gotten faster then that though.
Hmmm, capping HSPA+ at 4mbs. I will still try it next month to see how it is although I am sure we will have more feedback by then.

Dynotrick said:
From their page on data speeds:
What are the speeds on GoPhone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GoPhone doesn't throttle when you are under your data cap. LTE can get 20-30mb/s easily.

bozzykid said:
GoPhone doesn't throttle when you are under your data cap. LTE can get 20-30mb/s easily.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not with the N4, you can't

[email protected] said:
Not with the N4, you can't
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Sure you can. You need to be in an area that uses band 4. Granted their aren't many.

bozzykid said:
Sure you can. You need to be in an area that uses band 4. Granted their aren't many.
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Click to collapse
But you cannot get an LTE connection on the N4 through AT&T.....So even if they did not throttle an LTE connection it would not do any good for an N4 user anyway.

[email protected] said:
But you cannot get an LTE connection on the N4 through AT&T
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Sure you can. What do you mean?

bozzykid said:
Sure you can. What do you mean?
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Click to collapse
There is no LTE for AT&T with the N4. You can use an older radio on T-Mobile to get LTE but it will not work for AT&T. You can only get HSPA+.

[email protected] said:
There is no LTE for AT&T with the N4. You can use an older radio on T-Mobile to get LTE but it will not work for AT&T. You can only get HSPA+.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not true. Like I said earlier, you can get LTE on AT&T in the few areas that use band 4 which the N4 supports.

[email protected] said:
Also will give the 3rd month free on new activations!
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Click to collapse
I had seen the third month free advertised on their website before they went nationwide, but I don't see it there anymore. Does anyone know if it's still being offered? If so, it's a no-brainer to at least try it out.
Another big question will be whether discounted refill cards start showing up online, the way they do for other prepaid options. You can easily get a $60 GoPhone plan for $57 at Callingmart.com. Right now someone's offering a $60 refill for $51 on eBay, but that always seems a little shadier to me. If those kind of deals don't pop up for Aio, it's a little less compelling.

dan in la said:
I had seen the third month free advertised on their website before they went nationwide, but I don't see it there anymore. Does anyone know if it's still being offered? If so, it's a no-brainer to at least try it out.
Another big question will be whether discounted refill cards start showing up online, the way they do for other prepaid options. You can easily get a $60 GoPhone plan for $57 at Callingmart.com. Right now someone's offering a $60 refill for $51 on eBay, but that always seems a little shadier to me. If those kind of deals don't pop up for Aio, it's a little less compelling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, it's on the page...Scroll through on the first page to the right in the center of the screen.

[email protected] said:
Yup, it's on the page...Scroll through on the first page to the right in the center of the screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I saw it earlier today but it is gone for me as well.

[email protected] said:
Yup, it's on the page...Scroll through on the first page to the right in the center of the screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, you're right. It's still there, I just didn't read the rotating ads at the top of the page quickly enough. Here's a direct link to the offer: http://www.aiowireless.com/3rd-month-free-promo.html
You have to activate by September 29. According to the terms, you just have to sign up and keep your account active for two months, and five days before your second month expires, they'll automatically credit you with a third month free. It makes me a little nervous that you just have to trust that they'll credit your account, but what are you going to do.
Unfortunately, I just renewed with Net10 yesterday, but I'll probably port over to Aio just before the September 29 deadline. Still worth it for a free month even if I lose a week with Net10.

dan in la said:
Yes, you're right. It's still there, I just didn't read the rotating ads at the top of the page quickly enough. Here's a direct link to the offer: http://www.aiowireless.com/3rd-month-free-promo.html
You have to activate by September 29. According to the terms, you just have to sign up and keep your account active for two months, and five days before your second month expires, they'll automatically credit you with a third month free. It makes me a little nervous that you just have to trust that they'll credit your account, but what are you going to do.
Unfortunately, I just renewed with Net10 yesterday, but I'll probably port over to Aio just before the September 29 deadline. Still worth it for a free month even if I lose a week with Net10.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice find. I ordered the Sim and $55 plan last night so when it gets here I can hopefully activate it and get that month free.
Thanks.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

What is their policy for roaming? On T-mobile prepaid, you don't get any coverage in roaming if T-mobile itself doesn't have coverage. In post-paid, it can use other operator's network while roaming.