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this is my first post on this forum, and I've just acquired a Kaiser - my first pocket PC. I'm with Orange, and I've been installed the HTC home plugin, audio manager and black theme. This has vastly improved the look IMO, but I'm wondering what's the benefit of flashing the ROM?
From what has appeared on other threads, there does seem to be an element of risk involved, so there must be a good reason taking that risk.
tia
Hey,
Welcome to the forums and congrats on your new Kaiser.
Read the Wiki first and then read read read read read all the posts you can, then read them again.
This one is a another must read:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=332438
I have read almost every thread since I got here, and since I have joined I know I have spent 20 hours a week reading and sorting and have yet to pose a question, because this community prefers for newbies to educate themselves so we can avoid having multiple threads concerning the same issues.
The benefits to flashing a ROM are to numerous to cover in one post, especially without you acquiring some knowledge first.
Different ROMs have different attributes, and without the knowledge to fully understand a lot of the different aspects, you can brick your new piece of tech.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Loot at the top menu bar. See the donate link? The community would really appreciate it if you hit that link and contributed whatever you can afford.
Where else can we go and get so much knowledge? No where. So I know the Admins, Mods and members would really appreciate your support.
I Admin on several message boards ( not affiliated here though) and you wouldn't believe the costs involved and since xda helps so many of us, I really believe we should do what we can to help back.
If money is tight, even a dollar or a euro would be appreciated.
I have lurked here a bit, originally joining a while ago to see what was possible with my XDA, but got rid of it before becoming very active. Now I am back with a WING and prayer, and technicaly still qualify as a NOOB.....
Here are my thoughts on the NOOB issue.
1. This is like a big party that we NOOBS just crashed. We show up and complain about the music, or the booze, when in truth we ought to be damn glad we are at the party at all.
2. There is an answer to almost every question buried somewhere in these forums, and if you cannot or will not search for it, then you are in the wrong place. This includes other phone model forums by the way. Don't search the Herald forum only ad then give up if there is no answer. Dig into other HTC forums and you will be surprised how many of the issues you have are already covered there.
3. This may be a personal belief, but it really pisses me off to see people encounter 1 bug and post that the ROM sucks and they are reverting. I view our collective roles as beta testers. Don't stop at 1 bug- actively seek out as many as you can so the next ROM is that much closer to perfect. I have a major issue with the ROM I am using now, but I reflash it and dig deeper anyway.
4. You will and should get flamed (or at least warmed up) for posting questions that have been answered 100,000 times before including in the post right above yours. The Chefs in the forum spend hours or even days and months cooking up these ROMS for our benefit. They are not paid to do this, though they should be (and Ihave sent donations to several). The point is, we can all spend 30 minutes going through the forum reading it all to see if the issue we have uncovered is already discussed before posting a question.
5. If you want the most out of this site, spend some effort, not only searching, but documenting. Posting you have a crash is not helpful unless you can add information like what other programs you installed (card or device), what you did to the create the issue, and how to recreate it. Then the ROM Chefs can more quicly cook up solutions.
6. Credit those who help or provide. It is human nature to appreciate being thanked or recognized- see my signature? Without those three names my Wing would be chained to the T-Mobile default ROM. Oh yeah, while on the subject- DO NOT SELL anything from this site.
Just my 2 cents....
Yes you are right.
We all started as noobs and now we yell at noobs.
BUT MAYBE the noobs from today are a little different to noobs in earlier day??????
I READ 1 year without any posting NOT EVEN when i got something to work. BECAUSE it didn´t matter if I posted. Because it was useless at all.
There are so many people out there working really hard - they don´t need another "damn i want it in red not green...."
There was a time when everyone believed each other... When the cook stated "I will find a solution" then everyone waited for this. and didn´t mentioned it again and again...
BTW I will close the thread. WE don´t need another OFF topic "How2discuss"
I wrote an announcement in HOW2.... and maybe we can start working on devices again and not on generel human beeing problems. The world is getting worse...
BUT your statement should be read by everyone!
IT is good and it is quite good to see people thinking the same....
Thanks
Hi ,
First I'd like to say hello to everybody here. I'm new at this forum (and not a very intelligent one)
I just bought a TyTNII and been reading these forums trying to gather as much info as possible but unfortunately most of it is beyond my intellectual power.
I found people that hate the phone, people that loves it and people that modified/upgraded it to make it more powerful, faster, etc.
I wonder if there is any link (movil phones for Dummies???) where I can learn some stuff since there are a lot of terms that I don't understand.
May be I can ask here some of my questions and some willing soul might spare some time to help...
I intend to use this phone mostly with Skype (through WiFi) but I'd like to get the most out of it.
So, are there any upgrades (Rom or anything else) that I need to do or should I use it as is?
I been reading about all these different roms people post here but to be honest I'm not 100% sure what are they (I guess they are upgrades for windows) but I don't understand why people design these and not the official Microsoft.
Anyway, too many questions at once. If I get any replis to this one I might be encourage to ask again
Thanks,
Fernando
Read this ROM Flashing FAQ To learn more about roms..
Go through the Kaiser Wiki theres a lot of information there.
Thanks, I'll give it a read
guys,
please read the text below and let me know what you think about it...
although people try to mask the situation by giving it good names the truth is that this is happening and something has to be done before things get worse.
some folks are using this forum to sell what they call 'their' products. they get these ROMs, they make changes to it by adding or removing software. then they publish it as if they are 'sharing' their 'work' but, strangely, they do it in a very commercial way by naming their 'work' with appealing words to get attention.
when these ROMs go published, they often take a few first posts of the thread as they have a lot of information to add..... and screenshots to publish..... and donations to 'suggest'...... and donors' names to publish.
sometimes it will happen that a few folks who are trying these home cooked ROMs with applications that are less likely to be used by most people will end up having serious problems that eventually will get fixed by the 'chef' .... on a new version.
the principle of sharing a piece of work entirely made by yourself is that it cannot be asked anything in exchange otherwise, even if slightly suggested, it's nothing but a sale and by getting copyrighted software, making changes to it, 'sharing' and suggesting donations from the testers, well.... i'm pretty sure this isn't completely nice.... and either legal.
although i never really bothered to look into these roms to see what's really inside them (even flashing them on my phones sometimes) i decided to do it earlier this week. the funny thing you see when you dump these roms. they are not being shared with other folks, they are being sold, and they should not be touched.
another interesting thing is that if you look into the other subforums carefully you'll see that the same chefs often publish roms for more than one handset which gets me thinking two things: 1) do they really have all these handsets they publish ROMs for? 2) if so, are these roms really tested before they go online?
i don't want to be seen as a troublemaker cause it seems that these folks have made a living out of this cooked rom thing and they appear to have gotten themselves a pretty nice bunch of fans too. however, what i want with this thread is to raise a debate and the reason is that i really like this forum and i'm concerned about something that is happening and i completely disagree.
So what is your main concern?
That the chefs would like to have donations?
Or that someone takes a pile of code and alters it not according to the original programmer?
abe
big people talk about idea..
small people talk about other people..
You have a point with "selling someone else's code, slightly altered and selling it as your own", but I think the ROM cookers only like donations for the work they do tuning the original roms and most of the time adding functionality to the device. A lot of the "better known" chefs have gathered testers around them, so most of the bugs are gone before a release.
What exactly is the debate? Where are the facts/proof that this is occuring? you cant make such a statement without backing it up with some evidence.
I know some chefs actually put ALOT of time and effort into cooking a rom, testing it and informing the community about any errors found.
I've cooked a Rom or two myself and am working on a driver set for MSM devices. It takes ALOT of my time to do so and it's not only for my own benefit. Thank God there are people out there who help me with that. (you know who you are, if you're reading this)
I'm not saying that it's right to pass your ROMs off as your own, but I do know some chefs are better in making the devices perform alot better than HTC's programmers do. And if people want to reward them for their time and effort through donations, who am I to question that?
On the other hand, I find the "lack" of community more disturbing. Some people aren't sharing their knowledge for the common good, but for getting credited or donations. I believe that's the discussion here.
Just my 2 cents.
Well, I think that if they "invest" lot of their time (and they do), it is ok to have donation button. Nobody if forceing you to pay for rom. If you like it you can donate. Fair deal if you ask me!
SlakerBoi said:
guys,
the funny thing you see when you dump these roms. they are not being shared with other folks, they are being sold, and they should not be touched.
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Click to collapse
This part I don't like. I think that they shouldn't do that, because in that case, like you said, roms are in some way being sold. That is not in the spirit of xda.
I think what he may be referring to is some members that take the ROM's from a known cook and post it with screenshots in other forums and other language forums with potential to gain off someone else work. I know of 1 instance where a Link to a ROM for only a beta test ended up with more than 500 downloads when intended for less than 10. It was found posted around in different forums.
To reward someone for there hard work in customization is up to the community. I think most people know the ROM's are not the property of the cooks, but just the cooks work in rearranging, adding, deleting, and customizing. I for one can tell you the amount of donations most cooks receive is very small and in most cases would barely cover a unlimited account for downloads. I myself think of it as I'm cooking for myself and if other people like then that's ok too.
Hi
If I use HTC mobiles is because the cooked roms...
Iosu
NeoS2007 said:
On the other hand, I find the "lack" of community more disturbing. Some people aren't sharing their knowledge for the common good, but for getting credited or donations. I believe that's the discussion here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For me the first thing to do in order to solve this "problem" is to prohibit any "protected" ROM. I think its not fair to take official ressources, work with tools, which can be found in this forums, and then "protect" the ROM, claiming that its your own choice.
I don't think that this is the right way to go, as other (new) cookers could learn a lot from these ROMs.
But, I don't think that this is the "problem" that SlakerBoi is talking about, is it?
As these discussions tend to come and go every now and then ...
Indeed it costs a huge amount of time in the first place. And a lot of users appreciate the work all cooks are doing overhere. Besides the cooking giving people advise. I can tell you that most cooks share their knowledge. Not always visible to everyone but most of them have contact and help each other. Furthermore, is offering your rom for dumping without any guidance the best way to share?
Everyone that asks for a package, help or guidance in any way is supported in the cooking thread. Some did publish a very nice rom after some time. In my opinion it is a far better contribution then offering an open rom without any support.
The reason I cook my own roms the way I do is for speed purpose. If you have another opinion that is fine with me. But tolerate each other on having a different approach. These kind of statements in threads only give xda a bad vibe. Open your mind, when you want or need something ask for it. It's not supposed to be a tv diner anyway.
I quote you , my friend!
Well this is how it goes for a long time. I think if you don't like it, go somehwere else.
What will you get from debating??
SlakerBoi my first question for you is "have you every cooked a ROM?" i am sure your answer will be "No" because i know how much time n effords need to be put. When i cooked my first rom it took me 4 sleepless night to build a basic beta quality rom. After such a hard work someone reward you by donating. That feeling can't be said in words SlakerBoi. So please stop raising this type of question.
One more thing most of the ROM developers buy new phone with the donations they go so it's not a issue if they release rom for many devices.
Please don't continue this decisions so that this post will go to some corner.
MOD this post hurts lot of ppl feeling so please delete it.
before the flame wars starts
i am going to close this....as these questions will cause fighting.
if you have a problem with someone...contact them....don't post like this
you know this is only going to end in fighting.
thread closed.
As a chef, and a moderator (chef came first), I'll add my thoughts.
I started into cooking when AT&T released their official WM6.1 ROM for the Kaiser. I always liked the design of AT&T ROMs, but not all of the bloat they included... most of which could not be uninstalled. I had the very "simple" goal of removing the bloat in an attempt to speed up the ROM, and increase storage space.
Once I downloaded the ROM, and extracted it using KaiserKitchen, I immediately realized that I was in over my head. I am a very good with PC and Mac computers in the professional/personal world, but I had never looked at the contents of a decompiled WM ROM. There are hundreds of folders, 10,000+ files, and no real explanation of what you're looking at... that is where XDA-Developers came in.
Within 1 week of public release, I was ready with a ROM that could be considered "extreme beta". It worked, and it was fast, but it had quite a few glitches that could not have been discovered without a public release, and a few dozen people testing the ROM. One thing in the background, that is never seen, is the number of hours spent just flashing our phones (I am NOT counting the cooking process) with numerous revisions testing all the bugs/issues reported. My Tilt was flashed no less then 1000 times in it's life, and my Fuze has been through over 500 so far.
I consider myself to be a pretty good ROM chef. But I also know that I am far from the best, and that most of my knowledge came from the very large XDA-Developers community. Some ROM chefs do not share information about the inner workings of their ROM in the ROM thread itself, but a simple email/PM will usually get you the information you seek. Look at it this way: If someone uses a ROM as released, and has no desire to modify it, then why should the thread be clogged with hundreds of questions/answers relating to how this was done, or how that was done.
My ROMs are "protected" using RaphaelKitchen, but it wasn't always this way. It has been shown that merging the RGU/DSM files into one large file speeds up the ROM because you now have several hundred less files sitting on the device. In addition, I also release my kitchen, in it's complete form, when I release a new ROM version. People are free to download the kitchen, extract it to their computer, and fully customize my ROMs. I know this is a popular route, because my Fuze and Touch Pro kitchens have been downloaded over 100 times since v4.7 of my ROM came out last month.
On to donations... I have a donation link in my signature for people who wish to appreciate the amount of work/hours poured into creating custom WM ROMs. Just as my signature says, I never require monetary compensation, but I also accept whatever people give, because it allows me to improve my work. For example, I purchased WinCE CAB Creator with some of my donations, so that I could create CAB files of items removed from the ROM. I also maintain a Rapidshare Premium account so that I never have to delete any file uploaded to XDA. Another form of donation I received was web hosting on a fast server that provided an alternative to Rapidshare.
I've said all of this before, but it's been awhile, and I cannot find the post. In closing, I don't see anything wrong with the items you pointed out. We've had issues in the past with members who used donations as a way to obtain a piece of software (ROM or otherwise), and as soon as it was brought to our attention, it was dealt with.
Guys, this was a response to a post from me and my subsequent response to it posted in the XannyTech ROM thread. I thought it would be best to open this to a wider community as I am sure many feel as I do, but are unsure how to better the operation as it currently stands.
As I specify at the end of the post, I am definitely NOT attacking the chefs, just trying to get the best possible solution for the vast majority of people and giving my reasoning behind it.
dafunk2 said:
Mate, I don't agree with you.
I know that these are things told and told again.....but:
- Did you install additional software?
- Did you try to uninstall any additional software?
- Did you try to do an Hard Reset?
- Did you do an Hard Reset after Flashing?
- Did you try to re-flash the rom?
- Did you try to download again the rom?
You can see by other people's feedbacks that this rom is probably the best, performing and stable one, and you cannot of sure tell that this rom is "bits and pieces untested in it", because the cooker and his team of betatesters of course cannot test anything under ANY circumsance and ANY configuration and ANY additional software installed and ANY...and ANY...and ANY....
I feel to tell you these few words because I don't like who don't respect other's hard work. Did you noticed how many releases is Xanny doing? And every release is better then the last...so if you are experiencing problems or probably bugs, please give respect to the cooker and explain in a civil and constructive way wich the bugs are, and you can be sure that the cooker will fix as soon as possible.
Keep in mind that the rom MUST be valued "nude and crude" like the cooker post it, and not after installed a miriad of sofwares in it.
Maybe it's not your case.......
.....but I'm bored to see stupid posts like your.
Escuse me in advance if I'm too "direct" with you, I respect anyone that respect other people.
Ciao from Italy
dafunk
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Click to collapse
OK, firstly I take no offence to you being direct - it's sometimes the best way to be
Secondly, I have voiced my issues in a constructive and respectful manner within this thread before and many others from many other Chefs, but with little or sometimes no response.
I suppose we have to understand that:
these guys are doing this for nothing. I do!
these guys put a lot of effort and time into it - I do!
that these guys and testers cannot iron out every bug - I do!
Now,Chefs must understand a few bits and pieces also.
If they are going to cook ROM's then:
they need to be VERY precise about the issues they KNOW are resident
they need to understand that people willing to use these ROM's still want a fully functioning phone
they need to understand that fixing a bug in ROMv1 by releasing ROMv2 is all well and good, UNLESS it breaks something that was working fine in ROMv1 (often the case)
I can't emphasise enough the respect I have for these people, but I do think that we are getting more quantity than quality. There are a number of issues (see bug tracker) with some of the later ROM's which quiet frankly were broken as a result of a new recipe.....working before and broken after is breaking the golden rule of a new software release!
At the end of all this I urge people to understand what I'm saying and not take it as an attack against the Chefs as this is most definitely NOT what this is.
oh and to add, I have tried flashing via USB and flashing via SD Card, and hard resetting a number of times after flash. As for not installing any software....I'm struggling to see the relevance of that suggestion. Do you think HTC test TouchFlo3D against every piece of software developed for the platform they implement their software on to check for compatibility? No.....what they do is adhere to coding standards and practices using certified API's and the like to make sure that 99% of the time everything should be fine.
Now I'm not suggesting the same level of testing for Chefs, but what I AM saying is that if these ROM's are basically tweaked stock ROM's (which the newer Leo ROMs are now it's live) then surely the inherent testing has been done and issues should be minimal. That being the case, why are there so many posts on cooked ROM threads stating issues?
Again, not being antagonistic, just trying to point something out. I appreciate the chefs, but I still want my phone to operate.
I can just offer my noob experience, I have encountered apps made for winmo6.1 to cause problems for winmo6.5. and often times custom made mods by fellow users such as tweaks and graphics, mods to tf3d etc often causes problems, maybe not for first release, but when a new piece of software comes, like now manila 2.5 and so many new releases, what was perfect yesterday causes major bugs today.
And as far as cooking a rom, i have had such thing happened to me that when just updating one package in the rom, the whole thing will not start, just a newer version of the same app. So every new sys, every new manila edition, every new modification is very possible to cause some new conflict, noticeable or not.
I think if we want to have the latest software availible on the market, you will never have that officially, then this is the way to go, and there will always be some sort of conflicts minor or major, the good thing is chefs that are willing to work to improve, workaround fix etc, i like xanny, and miri and several others who are present in their threads and actually communicating trying to solve the issues, some just post a rom and you wont hear from them again until next release. But everything here is from free will, you chose to flash a rom you do take a risk. But we have some good backup tools and autoconfig tools so flashing is not so very timeconsuming
But i have had stockroms freeze on me, lagging and very irritable, but hey i am glad being able to have custom roms, every chef bring their own flavor to the phone, and if you dislike all you can always start cooking yourself then you can twist and turn it however you prefer
Thanks for your input - I was fearing a bit of a flame war when I posted so I'm happy that the first person to reply was a mature one
I suppose you are right from the point of view that having the latest software means that the likelihood is that it will not be officially tested and verified. I just wish that I wasn't always "waiting for the next problem" to occur.
If I was really bothered I suppose I'd go back to Stock and make do, but then I'd CAB my phone up to breaking point with tweaks! - lose lose situation perhaps
the way i look at it, we should only be using stock ROMs. Cookers then put in the time to create great ROMs for us with the features of newer devices, allowing us to get more out of our devices. They ask for little in return, so i dont really think its fair to criticise their products, because were it not for them, we'd be using just stock ROMs. Just my way of looking at it
Wiggz said:
I suppose we have to understand that:
these guys are doing this for nothing. I do!
these guys put a lot of effort and time into it - I do!
that these guys and testers cannot iron out every bug - I do!
Now,Chefs must understand a few bits and pieces also.
If they are going to cook ROM's then:
they need to be VERY precise about the issues they KNOW are resident
they need to understand that people willing to use these ROM's still want a fully functioning phone
they need to understand that fixing a bug in ROMv1 by releasing ROMv2 is all well and good, UNLESS it breaks something that was working fine in ROMv1 (often the case)
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Click to collapse
It seems you don't really understand the 3 points you made or else you wouldn't have made this post.
No-one is forcing you to use any ROM other than stock. And telling the chefs how to make their ROMs is just stupid, it's a completely optional service that these people are providing. Why should they be "VERY precise"? It's their ROM, if you don't like it, get another one or go back to stock.
I'm pretty positive they understand we want a fully functional phone, not sure what your point is here.
If you don't like the new version of a ROM then don't upgrade, or try it then go back to the old version.
Although you say you appreciate what they're doing, you come across as ungrateful that their free service is not up to your standards...
scotland101 said:
It seems you don't really understand the 3 points you made or else you wouldn't have made this post.
No-one is forcing you to use any ROM other than stock. And telling the chefs how to make their ROMs is just stupid, it's a completely optional service that these people are doing. Why should they be "VERY precise"? It's their ROM, if you don't like it, get another one.
Although you say you appreciate what their doing, you come across as ungrateful that their free service is not up to your standards...
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Click to collapse
I appreciate your point, and I can wholeheartedly see how my points could be perceived as aggressive towards chefs.
However, what I am trying to say is that whilst I understand I "don't need to use" these ROMs...why would anyone go to the time and effort to create a ROM if:
they didn't want people to use them, and
they didn't want it to be the best ROM out there with the fewest issues
I am simply saying that a few chefs are content with spewing out ROM after ROM without actually realising that people would prefer a recent-ish build release which was stable, and fast over a brand new ROM which was buggy.
personal opinion
Everyone must know that what these guys are doing is from their free time, and no one is forced to use their ROM`s. Who do use them, is doing that by free will. It may be that one of ROM is not that good that another, but you can go anytime to stock ROM, or the one you had before (like I did some times).
What I`m trying to say is that all we have to do is to say “thank you” to these guys who make possible that we all have a better device.
Keep up the good work and I salute you!
hehehe all very amusing, how you've made this into an issue I don't know...
chefs don't need to "understand" anything, they post it here with as much or as little description as they like!
luckily this forum is packed full of support tips faqs etc that there's really no need to ask chefs to be "very precise" and other such nonsense.
chefs can "spew" as much as they like, what the general public "prefer" is really not an issue, you are lucky that some of them reply and give you the help they do at all, in fact Xanny happens to give a lot of support for his roms and I can understand why he might feel just a little tired at some of the repetitive questions etc that get asked in his thread.
The fact the chefs reply at all should be help enough, you imply that you put "time and effort" into testing the roms...well that's lovely but it doesn't give you any extra gold stars.
This is not an attack against you, but you "need to understand" that there's nothing the chefs "need to understand" or do in order to please you or anyone else who take the time to test the roms, because noone is asking you to.
I think this pretty pointless thread has ran its purpose IMO. I believe all chef's put a lot of work into their roms and are trying to acheive the best rom, with the latest builds with no bugs. This is a hard enough task without people complaining about issues all the time which in general most chef's try to eradicate. No one wants bugs including chef's, but with newer builds appearing all the time, its inevitable you will get issues as these builds where not planned for the HD.
Think enough has been said on this subject
Thread closed