Just received my new HTC One (M8) yesterday. After setting it up and thinking everything was good to go. I made a phone call and tried to look up something on the internet. The page didn't pull up and when I looked at the status bar I noticed that the LTE symbol was gone. I looked in setting and my mobile data was on but showing disconnected. Has anyone else not be able to use voice and data together?
palo117 said:
Just received my new HTC One (M8) yesterday. After setting it up and thinking everything was good to go. I made a phone call and tried to look up something on the internet. The page didn't pull up and when I looked at the status bar I noticed that the LTE symbol was gone. I looked in setting and my mobile data was on but showing disconnected. Has anyone else not be able to use voice and data together?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's been like since the Evo 4G LTE days.
From s4gru dot com (can't post link for being too much of a noob on this site still)
"In previous Sprint LTE phones, when a device was in Sprint LTE coverage it would park in both the LTE and CDMA Sprint networks at the same time. When a voice call came in, it would just go straight through to the device. And signal to the LTE network would be maintained the whole time while the call was active.
In contrast, a Sprint Triband LTE device can only stay on one technology at a time. CDMA or LTE, not both. So when a Sprint LTE Triband device is in Sprint LTE coverage it parks only in LTE. And doing so means it cannot transmit calls without Circuit Switched Fallback (CSFB) on the network side. CSFB and eCSFB (Enhanced Circuit Switched Fallback) are network controls that will allow a single mode/single path network to operate in two modes, both CDMA and LTE.
Here is how it works in the simplest way I can describe. When your Triband LTE device has an LTE signal, it cannot receive or make calls on its own. It is just using LTE data happily. However, what if someone calls you? How does it get through the CDMA network to your device? Via CSFB.
When the Sprint network tries to forward a call to your device but cannot see it via CDMA, it then checks for an LTE connection to your device. If it sees one, it tells your device to disconnect from LTE for a moment and reconnect to CDMA. Your device then jumps over to take the call on Sprint CDMA and the LTE session is interrupted. This happens very fast and seamlessly. Except for the loss of data availability. If you receive a text, the Sprint network is able to route it to your device via LTE."
This is why I tried to upgrade from the EVO 4G to the EVO 4G LTE recently, I was trying to get a phone that handled LTE and had SVLTE, but it didn't work out reception-wise in my area, so bit the bullet and got the M8, knowing that if I use it for tethering will have to figure out if there is a way to force it to stay in LTE and have phone calls go straight to voice mail.
rhe12 said:
From s4gru dot com (can't post link for being too much of a noob on this site still)
"In previous Sprint LTE phones, when a device was in Sprint LTE coverage it would park in both the LTE and CDMA Sprint networks at the same time. When a voice call came in, it would just go straight through to the device. And signal to the LTE network would be maintained the whole time while the call was active.
In contrast, a Sprint Triband LTE device can only stay on one technology at a time. CDMA or LTE, not both. So when a Sprint LTE Triband device is in Sprint LTE coverage it parks only in LTE. And doing so means it cannot transmit calls without Circuit Switched Fallback (CSFB) on the network side. CSFB and eCSFB (Enhanced Circuit Switched Fallback) are network controls that will allow a single mode/single path network to operate in two modes, both CDMA and LTE.
Here is how it works in the simplest way I can describe. When your Triband LTE device has an LTE signal, it cannot receive or make calls on its own. It is just using LTE data happily. However, what if someone calls you? How does it get through the CDMA network to your device? Via CSFB.
When the Sprint network tries to forward a call to your device but cannot see it via CDMA, it then checks for an LTE connection to your device. If it sees one, it tells your device to disconnect from LTE for a moment and reconnect to CDMA. Your device then jumps over to take the call on Sprint CDMA and the LTE session is interrupted. This happens very fast and seamlessly. Except for the loss of data availability. If you receive a text, the Sprint network is able to route it to your device via LTE."
This is why I tried to upgrade from the EVO 4G to the EVO 4G LTE recently, I was trying to get a phone that handled LTE and had SVLTE, but it didn't work out reception-wise in my area, so bit the bullet and got the M8, knowing that if I use it for tethering will have to figure out if there is a way to force it to stay in LTE and have phone calls go straight to voice mail.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the info. I just came from the HTC Evo 4G LTE. Never had any problems with Simultaneous Voice and Data so I was very surprised when I couldn't talk and use data on this phone. Of course Sprint tech support was useless. They believe it should work just fine.
Thanks again!
Im on m7 currently talking on the phone and checking email... are you saying I wont b able to do this on the m8?
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using XDA Premium HD app
thesabri said:
Im on m7 currently talking on the phone and checking email... are you saying I wont b able to do this on the m8?
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using XDA Premium HD app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apparently so, more or less. See http://www.fiercewireless.com/story...upport-simultaneous-voice-and-data/2013-11-19
thesabri said:
Im on m7 currently talking on the phone and checking email... are you saying I wont b able to do this on the m8?
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using XDA Premium HD app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes that's exactly what it means. After discussing this on various forums it seems that no new phones on Sprint will be able to do voice and data simultaneously. The tri-band doesn't all these phones to operate on both the LTE band and the CDMA band at the same time. I'm trying to decide now if I'm going to return my M8 and switch to T-Mobile. Then purchase it from them.
this may be a deal breaker for me as well. i have been paying for wimax wifi untill lte deployed in my area... that the phone i want wont allow the vlte is very disapointing.
I thought I heard a while ago that is a thing of the past. GS3 (and apparently the Evo 4G lte) was the last to be able to do that. They removed that feature from the S4, and any device from that point on iirc. Not 100% on all that, but I know I read something like that before.
Never investigated as to why, but the only thing I can think of would be for safety reasons. Its bad enough that people text and drive, and I can just imagine how many would be driving, on the phone, and texting, or trying to browse the web.
Certainly a feature I will miss though, coming from an S3. Neither my wife nor mom want to upgrade because they don't want to lose that capability.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda app-developers app
It works on the m7 so that's not true djroc007
Sent from my HTC One
indiscriminant said:
It works on the m7 so that's not true djroc007
Sent from my HTC One
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He probably meant while on 3g.
Sent from my lair.
indiscriminant said:
It works on the m7 so that's not true djroc007
Sent from my HTC One
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think the m7 is a tri-band phone so it should work.... it works on my evo lte no matter what network im connected to but on my m8 it wont work at all.. I will try in on the g2 because that's also a tri-band phone and see what happends
Fair enough. I wasn't 100% sure, I just remember seeing somewhere that they were doing away with that capability at some point. It's stupid though either way. There's been plenty of times while talking about something on the phone where I've said "hold on, I'll Google it", or had the other person send me a picture of something. Will miss that feature.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda app-developers app
For clarity, please confirm is my understanding is true: this issue will be fixed in time, but we just don't know when - and Sprint is being shady about it.
I am an AT&T customer on the old Skyrocket. Long overdue for an upgrade, and I've been leaning toward switching to Sprint and getting the m8 ('real' unlimited data is a major factor). Now I'm weighing this issue, deciding whether it's significant enough to not make the switch after all.
buffjam9011 said:
For clarity, please confirm is my understanding is true: this issue will be fixed in time, but we just don't know when - and Sprint is being shady about it.
I am an AT&T customer on the old Skyrocket. Long overdue for an upgrade, and I've been leaning toward switching to Sprint and getting the m8 ('real' unlimited data is a major factor). Now I'm weighing this issue, deciding whether it's significant enough to not make the switch after all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, this is not really an “issue” since it’s not a feature that’s performing improperly. SVDO and SVLTE (being able to hold a call while on 3G or LTE, respectively) is simply not possible due to the new antenna design.
On the EVO 4G LTE, SVDO and SVLTE were both possible, but that phone wasn’t the greatest RF performer. On the One M7, SVLTE was still possible, but SVDO was removed to help offset RF fade so that the signal could be improved. I suspect that the antenna design was changed again on the M8 to further increase performance, but at the cost of only being able to do voice OR data at any given time. Also, there appears to be a network limitation with tri-band LTE devices. See the post from rhe12:
rhe12 said:
From s4gru dot com (can't post link for being too much of a noob on this site still)
"In previous Sprint LTE phones, when a device was in Sprint LTE coverage it would park in both the LTE and CDMA Sprint networks at the same time. When a voice call came in, it would just go straight through to the device. And signal to the LTE network would be maintained the whole time while the call was active.
In contrast, a Sprint Triband LTE device can only stay on one technology at a time. CDMA or LTE, not both. So when a Sprint LTE Triband device is in Sprint LTE coverage it parks only in LTE. And doing so means it cannot transmit calls without Circuit Switched Fallback (CSFB) on the network side. CSFB and eCSFB (Enhanced Circuit Switched Fallback) are network controls that will allow a single mode/single path network to operate in two modes, both CDMA and LTE.
Here is how it works in the simplest way I can describe. When your Triband LTE device has an LTE signal, it cannot receive or make calls on its own. It is just using LTE data happily. However, what if someone calls you? How does it get through the CDMA network to your device? Via CSFB.
When the Sprint network tries to forward a call to your device but cannot see it via CDMA, it then checks for an LTE connection to your device. If it sees one, it tells your device to disconnect from LTE for a moment and reconnect to CDMA. Your device then jumps over to take the call on Sprint CDMA and the LTE session is interrupted. This happens very fast and seamlessly. Except for the loss of data availability. If you receive a text, the Sprint network is able to route it to your device via LTE."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
Apparently in a theoretical future, when Sprint rolls out voice over LTE, this issue would, well, not be an issue anymore.
"Schlageter said the tri-mode LTE smartphones will be able to handle simultaneous voice and LTE data when Sprint deploys Voice over LTE. She noted Sprint has not yet set a timetable for when that will happen."
Source: http://www.fiercewireless.com/story...upport-simultaneous-voice-and-data/2013-11-19
Thanks for the replies. Seems like a usability oversight (or just bad decision) to me. Are other carriers able to support SVLTE or SVDO on Triband LTE devices or is this a device constraint?
Thinking about it, I only occasionally use data and voice at the same time so this might be more of a minor irritation to me. I have a question for those you who have experience with this - Is there any noticeable lag when CSFB occurs for either user (caller/receiver)?
Also, the language in the spokeswoman's replies in that article is frustrating.
buffjam9011 said:
Thanks for the replies. Seems like a usability oversight (or just bad decision) to me. Are other carriers able to support SVLTE or SVDO on Triband LTE devices or is this a device constraint?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn’t say it’s an “oversight,” either. I would say it’s more of a limitation of the compromise between RF performance and features. Sprint’s M8 variant will have access to more LTE bands in more areas than any of the other carriers. I could be wrong, but I suspect that the trade-off for SVLTE has something to do with the fact that the Sprint M8 will be switching between LTE bands more often than other carriers’ variants. Let’s take a look:
For the One M8, these are the LTE frequencies that each carrier-specific phone has the radio/antenna for:
AT&T: 700/850/AWS/1800/1900/2600 MHz
Sprint: FDD 800/1900 MHz , TDD 2600 MHz
Verizon: 700/AWS/1800/2600 MHz
TMUS: 700/AWS MHz
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Source: M8 spec page
As it currently stands, these are the LTE frequencies the above carriers have deployed or will soon deploy:
AT&T: 700/AWS/1900/2300 MHz
Sprint: 800/1900/2500 (2600) MHz
Verizon: 700/AWS MHz
TMUS: 700/AWS/1900 MHz
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sources:
List of LTE networks - Wikipedia
AT&T Mobility - Wikipedia
Sprint - Wikipedia
Verizon - Wikipedia
T-Mobile USA - Wikipedia
This means that only the AT&T and Sprint versions can use 3 LTE bands on their respective networks. However, since only Sprint will have all 3 bands available nationwide, I suspect that there might be something network-related which would allow the AT&T model to still allow SVLTE, but again, I could be wrong. I think I’ll take this to S4GRU.com to fact-check.
Related
OK, so it's come up in several threads, so I thought I might try and simplify things and answer some people's questions with a bit of a primer on GSM, HSPA, LTE, 3G, 4G, etc! So here goes! (And special thanks to ClippinWings, I liked the way you formatted this list, so I'm gonna borrow it! )
GSM Data Technologies:
So in order from slowest to fastest, the GSM data technologies are:
Legend:
Technology | Vivid Taskbar Icon | Standard Android Icon | Actual GSM Category
GSM | G | G | 2G
EDGE | E | E | 2G
UMTS | 4G | 3G | 3G
HSPA | 4G | H | 3G
HSPA+ | 4G | H+ | 3G*
LTE | 4GLTE | ? | 4G*
LTE-Advanced | N/A | ? | 4G
*3G/4G status here's disputed, I'll get to that later
The Vivid, displays G & E, then displays 4G for 3G, H & H+, then 4GLTE for LTE. So no matter what 3G network your on, it'll show 4G (because AT&T thinks H+ counts as 4G, more on this later), then when you're on an actual 4G network, it'll show 4GLTE.
Difference between Verizon & AT&T LTE phone radios:
AT&T's network is completely GSM based for 2G, 3G & 4G, whereas Verizon's 2G & 3G network is CDMA based. Therefore, one radio will work for everything in an AT&T LTE phone. This is different from Verizon, where the two different technologies necessitate two different radios: one for CDMA, one for LTE. This will most likely continue to be the way it works: Verizon (and eventually Sprint) phones will require two radios for two technologies, AT&T/T-Mo phones will only require one.
LTE networks are completely data focused and don't yet implement voice protocols. When they do, it will be VoIP based, so it'll just be more data (This will be called VoLTE for Voice over LTE).
This leads to one consequence, however, concerning simultaneous data & voice. Since this isn't implemented yet, phones must revert to the 2G/3G network to make voice calls. On Verizon, since they're two different radios, you can continue to use LTE data while using CDMA for voice (A new feature for Verizon, as CDMA networks don't handle simultaneous voice & data). On AT&T, they're the same radio, so dropping down to 3G drops the LTE connection. You can still use simultaneous voice & data (as you can on just about any GSM based network), but you just don't get LTE speeds.
Is HSPA+ Really 4G?
Easy answer? There is none. By ITU (the body that decides these things) original standards, 4G was any technology that could provide 100 Mbps downlink. By these standards, not even LTE qualifies. Only LTE-Advanced, the as of yet unimplemented successor to LTE, qualifies (Verizon, Sprint, & AT&T have all committed to LTE-A deployments starting in 2013). However, LTE being a new protocol that uses new frequency bands, it's natural to call it 4G. HSPA+ is an enhancement to 3G technology to provide a short term solution until LTE deployments are complete (mostly through enhancements to fiberoptic backhaul), and is very often called 3.9G (FYI, HSPA is commonly referred to as 3.5G). However, T-Mobile, since they didn't have an actual 4G deployment plan, started calling their HSPA+ deployment 4G. Especially since it gave speeds just as fast (or faster) than Verizon's LTE network, this caught on, and AT&T was forced to do the same to keep up. With HSPA+ squarely being called 4G in advertising, the ITU amended it's definition of 4G. It said that LTE, being fundamentally new, was clearly 4G. It also made a statement that, while not officially calling HSPA+ 4G, justified T-Mobile's & AT&T's use of the term. And since HSPA & HSPA+ are basically the same technology, the Vivid & Skyrocket just show 4G for it all!
I hope this helps clear up some confusion. I made every effort to ensure all of this info is backed up by research, but if I got something wrong, please let me know! Or if there's anything you think I missed that should be included here, please let me know that, too!
Now Asking the Second Part of the Question
Thanks for the expanded explanation. Now to the second part of the question:
Why do some people have great speeds and other people have poor speeds?
Here are some reasons I have tried to glean from the posts here. Please add, correct or clarify as needed.
1. LTE or lack thereof - Obviously only a few people have it now.
2. HSPA+ or lack thereof - The enhanced features of AT&T's 3G may not be in all places.
3. Bandwidth or lack thereof - I saw an article (sorry for no URL) noting that AT&T has more and better capacity in some cities than it does in others. This discrepancy between cities seems to be less of a problem for Verizon.
4. Load on the system - All those iPhones eating up what bandwidth there is.
5. Location - If you live in a hilly area like I do, there are going to be holes. Also, when I moved from a top floor office with a window to a 1st floor interior office (no, it was not a demotion), my phone service dropped.
6. AT&T System issues - Not sure what these might be, but a few posts have alluded to such.
7. Phone hardware and firmware - A couple of reviews I read noted that performance for the Vivid was somewhat less than other phones with the same or similar processor.
bjg222 said:
OK, so it's come up in several threads, so I thought I might try and simplify things and answer some people's questions with a bit of a primer on GSM, HSPA, LTE, 3G, 4G, etc! So here goes! (And special thanks to ClippinWings, I liked the way you formatted this list, so I'm gonna borrow it! )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great post!
and no worries, I just reformatted the list I got from your original post
(I totally would have forgot UMTS lol)
Teamwork!
From what I've read up, 4G qualifies for up to 56mps down (thats no load, perfect signal) and is just an upgrade to the Hspa+ protocol. I believe the reason AT&T doesn't show 3G, 3G+, and 4G as different symbols is because they believe it would 1. Confuse the mass population and 2. The mass population would be outraged wondering why if they have a 4G phone it was only picking up 3G (people not understanding the work and money involved in upgrading towers and such). I've heard people complaining about not ever picking up LTE around here and I just facepalm myself so hard considering Charlotte isn't supposed to get it till the 20th and even then we still wouldn't get it here out in bfe.
Good article though, I'm sure the clarification will help some of the newer people here.
bjg222 said:
Difference between Verizon & AT&T LTE phone radios:
AT&T's network is completely GSM based for 2G, 3G & 4G, whereas Verizon's 2G & 3G network is CDMA based. Therefore, one radio will work for everything in an AT&T LTE phone. This is different from Verizon, where the two different technologies necessitate two different radios: one for CDMA, one for LTE. This will most likely continue to be the way it works: Verizon (and eventually Sprint) phones will require two radios for two technologies, AT&T/T-Mo phones will only require one.
LTE networks are completely data focused and don't yet implement voice protocols. When they do, it will be VoIP based, so it'll just be more data (This will be called VoLTE for Voice over LTE).
This leads to one consequence, however, concerning simultaneous data & voice. Since this isn't implemented yet, phones must revert to the 2G/3G network to make voice calls. On Verizon, since they're two different radios, you can continue to use LTE data while using CDMA for voice (A new feature for Verizon, as CDMA networks don't handle simultaneous voice & data). On AT&T, they're the same radio, so dropping down to 3G drops the LTE connection. You can still use simultaneous voice & data (as you can on just about any GSM based network), but you just don't get LTE speeds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
all phones will probably end up using one radio after the next gen LTE phones come out: http://www.anandtech.com/show/5118/qualcomm-announces-a-bunch-of-krait-based-snapdragon-s4-socs
this includes CDMA-based phones.
also, the thunderbolt and rezound allow simultaneous voice and data when on 3G, i believe it's because of the way the radios are set up in those phones.
definitely a great post. it's too bad marketing took over the meaning of all the "4G" terms. thanks, t-mobile.
I hope someone makes a ROM that fixes the service bar so that it shows "3G", "H", "H+" and "LTE" properly. That's a total farce.
Most cooked Roms have it like that although I know on like winmo and wp7 there was regedit to do it.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA App
G stands for GPRS not GSM It's still a 2G technology and edge is akin to 2.5G
(I'm getting an HTC Vivid Tuesday if you're wondering why a Sensation owner is posting here.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using xda premium
Gprs - 2g
edge - 2.5g
umts - 3g
hspa - 3.5g
hspa+ - 3.75g
lte - 4g
This is a question for Canadian people or people that owns a Raider version:
Do you have actually seen the H+ icon when you are on a HSPA+ network?
Or is it just showing the H icon but you know you are on a HSPA+ network because of the speed?
This is because my network operator claims to be HSPA+ but I can't see the H+ icon only the H one.
My speed on speedtest app is about 6Mbps/3Mbps. Is this HSPA+ speed?
Thanks for your answers.
Cheers!!!
vhjc said:
This is a question for Canadian people or people that owns a Raider version:
Do you have actually seen the H+ icon when you are on a HSPA+ network?
Or is it just showing the H icon but you know you are on a HSPA+ network because of the speed?
This is because my network operator claims to be HSPA+ but I can't see the H+ icon only the H one.
My speed on speedtest app is about 6Mbps/3Mbps. Is this HSPA+ speed?
Thanks for your answers.
Cheers!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can't speak for the Raider people but from your speed it looks like you do have HSPA+
The following is my understanding of the problem. If any corrects or updates need to be made just post and I will update the OP.
Many N5 users are on Sprint noticing that they are not connecting to LTE. The key here is that the N5 is a single radio Triband LTE CDMA device. There is also a great post that explains everything here (thanks LordLugard) and technical pros and cons as well as nice information on the current state of the network are on post #8.
From the s4gru post:
In previous Sprint LTE phones, when a device was in Sprint LTE coverage it would park in both the LTE and CDMA Sprint networks at the same time. When a voice call came in, it would just go straight through to the device. And signal to the LTE network would be maintained the whole time while the call was active.
In contrast, a Sprint Triband LTE device can only stay on one technology at a time. CDMA or LTE, not both. So when a Sprint LTE Triband device is in Sprint LTE coverage it parks only in LTE. And doing so means it cannot transmit calls or text without Circuit Switched Fallback (CSFB) on the network side. CSFB and eCSFB (Enhanced Circuit Switched Fallback) are network controls that will allow a single mode/single path network to operate in two modes, both CDMA and LTE.
Here is how it works in the simplest way I can describe. When your Triband LTE device has an LTE signal, it cannot receive or make calls/texts on its own. It is just using LTE data happily. However, what if someone calls or texts you? How does it get through the CDMA network to your device? Via CSFB.
When the Sprint network tries to forward a call/text to your device but cannot see it via CDMA, it then checks for an LTE connection to your device. If it sees one, it tells your device to disconnect from LTE for a moment and reconnect to CDMA. Your device then jumps over to take the call or text on Sprint CDMA and the LTE session is interrupted. This happens very fast and seamlessly. Except for the loss of data availability. If it is just a text, the data session is only interrupted for fractions of a second and is likely not even noticed by the user...
...much of Sprint’s legacy network either doesn’t support Circuit Switched Fallback or doesn’t support it in cases where the legacy network equipment is by a different manufacturer than the new Network Vision equipment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So in other words your N5 cannot get phone calls and texts when using LTE while on old crappy legacy towers so it keeps you on 3G.
Warning, I am not responsible for any problems following this advice or code causes. In fact I suggest you stop reading, close your browser and never come back to XDA.
But wait there's a fix!!!
Well not really... but kinda. Type *#*#4636#*#* into your phone dialer and then go to Phone information. From here you can set preferred network type. Choose LTE/GSM/CDMA auto (PRL) (in rare cases LTE only (PRL) maybe required). Now you will auto connect to LTE if it is available. The problem is that if your on a legacy tower you will not receive texts or phone calls when on LTE. It's easy enough to switch between LTE/CDMA auto (PRL) and LTE/GSM/CDMA auto (PRL) on the fly but that's no solution, it just builds the hatred in your blood.
Update - This app is not needed but will be left up. See update 2.
I've built a really simple app to help with this. All the app does is put the above code into your clipboard and launch your dialer. You can then just paste and it will launch the Tester/PhoneInfomation of your phone.
Full source here. The apk is also in the repo.
Update 2
No Dialer codes need. Just install this app and it will launch the activity you need. Credit to DMX31 for posting this link I this thread.
I haven't had any issues so far with LTE (sending texts, making and receiving calls) on my Nexus 5 and i'm in a spark launch city.
I'm not even going to pretend to understand half of what's being discussed because I don't care enough...
I have a lte tower right by my house and can't conext to lte on my n5. 4 other phones connect just fine cause it's a strong signal. Called sprint and they said it's a known problem. This is ridiculous. If it's not fixed by my 14 days it's going back. Can't stand not having lte
Sent from my SPH-L900 using xda premium
This problem effects me, so bad to the point I just sold my N5 and went back to my CM S3. Kudos if you're not having issues, but lots are. The hours on tech support and browsing forums searching for a fix is not worth the effort over a piece of plastic to me with no ETA on when all the towers will be upgraded. Probably months out in my particular area. Happily chugging along on LTE again, maybe I'll try the nexus again next year.
Wait of the n5 is single band lte and sprint is changing their phones to single band to. Shouldn't this be a problem soon to go away?
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
It's only a problem in some markets. No issues where I am, for example, but in Chattanooga where I will be moving, the towers are only 4G accepted, not 3G/4G (from what I hear). This problem should be going away for anyone in completed 3G markets soon, and for markets that are not 3G accepted, Sprint should be ramping up the pace of the completions through vendor incentives.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
graffix31 said:
Wait of the n5 is single band lte and sprint is changing their phones to single band to. Shouldn't this be a problem soon to go away?
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that the key is them updating their towers. I don't know about where you live but that doesn't occur quickly in Raleigh North Carolina.
MinceMan said:
I think that the key is them updating their towers. I don't know about where you live but that doesn't occur quickly in Raleigh North Carolina.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The key is Network Vision 3G upgrades so the phone can talk to the eCSFB side of the network. Incumbent vendor regions that are mostly not affected are regions where Alcatel-Lucent took over Lucent and Ericsson took over Nortel. Those should be fine and if there are issues then it's really just a software update on the cell site.
In areas where there's non-incumbent equipment then it's a big deal. Areas taken over such as Motorola will have an issue. Then there are the Samsung vendor regions.
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Every Samsung region is a non-incumbent region (except PR/VI) and are guaranteed to have issues because Samsung is replacing Nortel, Motorola (hard handoffs known for a while - see Chicago), and etc. According to the document I'll quote below the only mitigation for the eCSFB gaps are to actually quickly complete the network rollout / conversion and fire up NV 3G as soon as possible so Tri-Band devices can actually talk to the LTE core and 3G side.
Explains the apparent "lack" of work in Samsung markets but a huge number of sites physically completed. No time for acceptance / integration when you must complete as many sites as possible to mitigate the eCSFB gaps.
Sprint eCSFB Gap Issue Legal Approved Talking Points:
eCSFB Gap Talking Points
Sprint’s Network Vision Plan (Spectrum)
Sprint’s Network Vision plan includes access to three spectrum bands, (1.9, 800 and 2.5), and LTE handsets with a single radio.
Access to diverse spectrum assets allows Sprint to maximize capacity and coverage.
Current Sprint LTE Devices (2 Radios)
Current Sprint LTE devices are Simultaneous Voice and LTE (SVLTE)—using two radios, one for voice and one for LTE data. This allows CDMA calls and LTE to operate at the same time.
Dual Radio SVLTE devices can degrade the user’s quality of experience – two antennas may slow throughput at the cell edge and reduce battery life.
Future Sprint LTE Devices (1 Radio)
CSFB and eCSFB (Circuit Switch Fall Back and enhanced Circuit Switch Fall Back) are features that enable single radio functionality in the handset.
eCSFB Benefits:
With eCSFB implementation, Sprint will be able to offer fast LTE data speeds and 3G voice supported on single radio devices. This provides a more cost effective option for Sprint’s long-term business plans to support additional spectrum bands.
eCSFB is expected to improve handset battery life compared to SVLTE.
eCSFB Gap Issue – What you Need to know:
Smart devices require eCSFB to “fall back” to 3G to accept a voice call if the user is connected to the LTE network.
All markets need to be upgraded with eCSFB capability.
eCSFB Gaps are only in non-incumbent markets where a site has 4G LTE and no 3G upgrade.
4G LTE integration with 3G is different by OEM type:
Incumbent markets – LTE 4G only sites can communicate with either legacy 3G or NV 3G sites.
Non-Incumbent – LTE 4G can only communicate with NV 3G sites; so individual sites need both NV upgrades.
LTE devices – Customer Experience
When 4G LTE is deployed in a non-incumbent market on sites without upgrade to 3G service, there is a gap.
Existing Devices – No Impact
eCSFB Devices – Phone becomes 3G only device
Non-Launched Markets
No coverage visible on Sprint.com maps but different experience for users with existing devices versus new eCSFB devices.
Launched Markets
Sprint coverage tools will display LTE coverage. For new LTE smart device users this could be confusing since they would expect LTE and 3G coverage with the device they purchased, but would not experience LTE until the 3G network is upgraded.
Mitigation plan:
New LTE Markets
When locking new LTE markets for announcement/ launch, eCSFB deployment status will be a factor in the analysis. New LTE markets will not be announced unless the eCSFB gap risk is low.
Complete the build quickly in eCSFB gap impacted markets.
Acronyms
CSFB – Circuit Switch Fall Back. It allows for single radio devices. (ERC)
eCSFB – Enhanced Circuit Switch Fall Back Next generation CSFB. (ALU, STA)
SVLTE – Simultaneous Voice & LTE. Allows CDMA calls and LTE to operate simultaneously
Incumbent – An incumbent market is one in which the OEM stays the same as before Network Vision
Non-incumbent – A market in which the OEM changes as well as all of the equipment.
ERC - Ericsson
ALU – Alcatel Lucent
STA - Samsung
NV – Network Vision
OEM – Original Equipment Manufacturer (ERC, ALU, STA)
Gap – 4G LTE on sites without appropriate upgrades to 3G service
1.9 GHz Spectrum - Provides initial capacity and coverage for voice and data services.
800 MHz Spectrum - Improves coverage and in-building penetration for all services.
2.5 GHz Spectrum - Increases data capacity to support higher data demands and more users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^^this. To the OP, this is only a temporary problem, as it is not in Sprint's future plan to keep any markets in a eCSFB gap. This is just an unfortunate side-effect of the rollout not being finished.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
squshy 7 said:
^^this. To the OP, this is only a temporary problem, as it is not in Sprint's future plan to keep any markets in a eCSFB gap. This is just an unfortunate side-effect of the rollout not being finished.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RANT:
Temporary yes but really what does that mean. I'm guessing maybe between 1-2 years? By the time it's fixed in my area I might not even have this phone any longer. Their network has been a mess for years and I'm paying good money for this crap.
Is this related to my data dropping completely by any chance? I can connect to 3G and 4G fine, but after a random amount of time the data connecting just disappears but I can still make calls and send texts.
The Nexus 5 is a great phone, but I'm finding this whole situation pretty frustrating so far.
persibro said:
Is this related to my data dropping completely by any chance? I can connect to 3G and 4G fine, but after a random amount of time the data connecting just disappears but I can still make calls and send texts.
The Nexus 5 is a great phone, but I'm finding this whole situation pretty frustrating so far.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have not experienced that and it doesn't sound like the same problem to me...
The easiest way(for me) to toggle between networks is this app
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.mangelow.network&hl=en
No dialer codes needed.
So here's something that's happening to me. I'll send a message and it'll be stuck on sending. BUT. If I place a call and let it connect then hang up the text will go through fine. I'm in Dallas and have LTE almost everywhere but my house lol. Sometimes i'll get LTE upstairs at my house.
I can also remember doing this on my Evo 3D around September-November 2011
S4GRU Nails it..
This article from S4GRU says it all.
http://s4gru.com/index.php?/blog/1/...-due-to-circuit-switched-fallback-technology/
LordLugard said:
This article from S4GRU says it all.
http://s4gru.com/index.php?/blog/1/...-due-to-circuit-switched-fallback-technology/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lord: Thanks for that link. That was about the best, most comforting information I've read in a long time and helps to clarify the issue.
chugger93 said:
Lord: Thanks for that link. That was about the best, most comforting information I've read in a long time and helps to clarify the issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're welcome.
LordLugard said:
This article from S4GRU says it all.
http://s4gru.com/index.php?/blog/1/...-due-to-circuit-switched-fallback-technology/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting...Thanks for this. I wonder if lack of CSFB in one's market would be grounds for waiving the ETF...
Sent from my EVO LTE
MinceMan said:
But wait there's a fix!!!
Well not really... but kinda. Type *#*#4636#*#* into your phone dialer and then go to Phone information. From here you can set preferred network type. Choose LTE/GSM/CDMA auto (PRL). Now you will auto connect to LTE if it is available. The problem is that if your on a legacy tower you will not receive texts or phone calls when on LTE. It's easy enough to switch between LTE/CDMA auto (PRL) and LTE/GSM/CDMA auto (PRL) on the fly but that's no solution, it just builds the hatred in your blood.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I go into *#*#4636#*#* and force LTE Only in Phone info, the radio indicator in the notification area shows me as having four bars of LTE, but the Current network indicator stays in the Searching for Service state and never progresses past this point.
I am however, able to run a ping test on that screen, and while both the "ping hostname" and "http client test" pass, the "ping ipaddr" test fails with "IP addr not reachable".
Is this what others are experiencing as well in markets where you have to force LTE?
@geoff2k Yes to all.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Hi, I'm finally an official moto x user! Got it unlocked and using it on my carrier in France.
Anyway I just unlocked it, set the APN settings for my carrier (SFR in france) and noticed that the 4g icon appeared and seems to be active. I don't believe my data plan is compatible with 4g.
My questions are: is the phone actually using 4g, even though my plan doesn't enable it by default?
And if so, will it bring subsequent costs?
Thanks!
Sent from my XT1058 using xda app-developers app
I'd say your best bet is to contact your carrier and ask them the same questions. I'm sure they'll have a better idea of what's actually going on with your data connection and what data speeds your running.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
My Moto X also has the 4G always on. That doesn't necessarily mean that I'm pulling 4G down though. You need to ask yourself the following:
What type of data is your plan commissioned for?
This is relevant because the Moto X will display the 4G symbol when it senses that it can pull down HSPA+. Quick history lesson: HSPA+ isn't technically 4G. The 3GPP hadn't fully set the standard for what 4G would be when US carriers just decided to deem HSPA+ as 4G. Once the 3GPP settled on their standard, it was already too late; the marketing for "4G!" had begun, and they agreed to let the carriers continue to call this sub-4G standard 4G (hell, if you wanna get really technical, LTE doesn't even meet the 4G standard, but that's another discussion). How this pertains to you: find out what type of data your plan uses. What your carrier deems "4G" might be different than what the Moto X deems "4G". So what could be happening is that your data plan doesn't include LTE (which your carrier may call 4G) but includes HSPA+ (what your phone calls 4G).
Johmama said:
My Moto X also has the 4G always on. That doesn't necessarily mean that I'm pulling 4G down though. You need to ask yourself the following:
What type of data is your plan commissioned for?
This is relevant because the Moto X will display the 4G symbol when it senses that it can pull down HSPA+. Quick history lesson: HSPA+ isn't technically 4G. The 3GPP hadn't fully set the standard for what 4G would be when US carriers just decided to deem HSPA+ as 4G. Once the 3GPP settled on their standard, it was already too late; the marketing for "4G!" had begun, and they agreed to let the carriers continue to call this sub-4G standard 4G (hell, if you wanna get really technical, LTE doesn't even meet the 4G standard, but that's another discussion). How this pertains to you: find out what type of data your plan uses. What your carrier deems "4G" might be different than what the Moto X deems "4G". So what could be happening is that your data plan doesn't include LTE (which your carrier may call 4G) but includes HSPA+ (what your phone calls 4G).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just read that my plan at SFR uses what they call dual carrier which is in fact hspa+. So according to what you are saying this would trigger the 4g icon and since it is part of my plan it would come at no additional cost, which is great!
So just a final question just to be sure: if my phone detects LTE, will it use it instead of hspa+ (Even though my data plan does not include it)?
frenchie007 said:
I just read that my plan at SFR uses what they call dual carrier which is in fact hspa+. So according to what you are saying this would trigger the 4g icon and since it is part of my plan it would come at no additional cost, which is great!
So just a final question just to be sure: if my phone detects LTE, will it use it instead of hspa+ (Even though my data plan does not include it)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This would be up to your carrier and how they handle this. Your phone will take advantage of any data it can pull down. It's up to your carrier to decide what data you are able to pull. In most cases (in fact, I can't think of a case where this isn't true), you can only pull down what your plan is commissioned for. If your plan doesn't include LTE, it's probably a safe bet that your phone won't ever use it. This happens on the carrier's end. Your SIM card is how they keep track of your minutes, data, and texts used, data standard you're able to access, etc. and if they see your SIM as not on an LTE plan, they won't allow access to their LTE network.
If you want to be 100% sure, it might be wise to check your carrier's website to see exactly how they handle this. Like I said, I don't know of any carrier that allows access to their LTE network to people that don't have an LTE plan, then charge them for it, but I suppose it could be possible (albeit, somewhat shady).
Johmama said:
This would be up to your carrier and how they handle this. Your phone will take advantage of any data it can pull down. It's up to your carrier to decide what data you are able to pull. In most cases (in fact, I can't think of a case where this isn't true), you can only pull down what your plan is commissioned for. If your plan doesn't include LTE, it's probably a safe bet that your phone won't ever use it. This happens on the carrier's end. Your SIM card is how they keep track of your minutes, data, and texts used, data standard you're able to access, etc. and if they see your SIM as not on an LTE plan, they won't allow access to their LTE network.
If you want to be 100% sure, it might be wise to check your carrier's website to see exactly how they handle this. Like I said, I don't know of any carrier that allows access to their LTE network to people that don't have an LTE plan, then charge them for it, but I suppose it could be possible (albeit, somewhat shady).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay thanks a bunch for all the info. For now I'll leave 4g on, and if I see any additional costs come up I'll look more into it. Thanks!
Your phone will also show LTE in very small print along the side of the "4G" if it is connected using LTE. The phone will "prefer" LTE over HSPA if the carrier has provisioned it in your sim card and the phone has a compatible radio for LTE in your area.
The US carriers messed everything up insisting phones display 3G, 4G etc instead of displaying the real type of connection they are using.
Greetings all,
Six years with a Winmo 6.1 HTC Touch on Sero and I want to upgrade to the Galaxy S4 (removable battery a must).
I'm in a suburb of Vancouver, Washington and I don't expect to see Spark here for a long time, if ever.
Sprint coverage maps CLAIM lte (4G) but my Vogue is CDMA only so I can't say for sure.
Since the new tri-band S4 lacks svlte and the towers won't be offering csfb or ecsfb should I simply select the single-band model.
I'm worried that if I select the latest and greatest (SPH-L720T) that I'll have a strangled device until Network Vision is completed in my area, if ever.
For those unfamiliar with this issue I offer this summary I found at pocketables...
"If you just picked up a triband LTE phone for use with Sprint service, but you’ve discovered that it won’t seem to connect to LTE on its own, there is a good reason. It turns out that Sprint is purposely offering triband LTE customers a degraded network experience in areas where its Network Vision rollout isn’t complete.
Before we continue, this only affects three devices: the HTC One max, the Google Nexus 5 by LG, and the LG G2. These are the only triband LTE devices that Sprint is currently offering, although a triband Samsung Galaxy S4 is expected soon.
Before Sprint started selling these triband devices, the LTE devices on offer all supported two separate transmission paths on CDMA 1xRTT and on LTE. This allowed customers to continue making and receiving texts and phone calls while remaining connected to the LTE network. The technology behind that is Simultaneous Voice and LTE (SVLTE), and the current triband devices on offer do not support this.
Instead, the One max, Nexus 5, and G2 are only technologically capable of handling one transmission path – either CDMA for voice or texts, or LTE for data. Luckily, Sprint’s network theoretically can handle this, and let the device know when to connect to CDMA and when to connect to LTE. That way, if a customer is streaming a movie or LTE, the network can tell the phone to temporarily disconnect from LTE to receive a phone call.
This type of network technology that allows such seamless switching is called Circuit Switched Fallback (CSFB) and Enhanced Circuit Switched Fallback (eCSFB). Unfortunately, Sprint hasn’t deployed this to most of its network yet. Areas that don’t have it already have no expected time frame for the rollout of this network technology, and since your smartphone is designed to prefer the ability to make and receive phone calls at all costs, it is programmed to stay on CDMA.
A temporary work around is to force the phone to connect manually to LTE only in the phone’s hidden network settings, but the side effect is that calls and texts won’t go through.
Obviously, this is a real problem – it’s one that Sprint has not been transparent about, that is affecting lots of people in lots of areas. Ideally, Sprint would warn customers of the situation before buying an affected device, but this hasn’t been the case.
So be forewarned before buying your next smartphone. It might be best to hold on to that EVO 4G LTE or HTC One a bit longer, before upgrading to a newer device."
This could be a simple or complex Question/Answer...
Throwing the LTE bands out on the table for non-Spark devices (such as M7) vs. Spark devices (Such as M8)
M7: 1900mhz
M8: 850/1900/2600 MHz
Now those who had an M7 know the fallbacks with the 1900 spectrum. While driving around depending on your area, or limitations of wall penetration, it's very easy to loose LTE and fall back to 3G. Then it's no fun waiting to get back to LTE when your streaming music or video.
The reason I am posting this question is because I don't want to assume, I'd rather have feedback for someone with an M8. If you're inside a building, or driving, have you noticed an improvement with a spark phone?
For instance, is it possible to be on the 850 spectrum and NOT the 1900? or as soon as it looses the 1900 will it still fall back to 3G? I'll be honest, I love/hate LTE on non-spark phones. Love because its unlimited data, hate because of how easy it is to loose LTE. I've had several non-spark phones and had this issue between all of them, and I also have a Verizon phone which is on LTE over 99% of the time. I live in the Tri State Area in NY.
So the bottom line question... If only one band is available (say the 850 because it should theoretically have better wall penetration), will it use that band? Or.. is Sprint Spark all three bands or bust..back to 3G?
im pretty sure from what ive read that spark uses all bands at the same time, so if you lose one youll still be connected on the others until you lose them all. my area doesnt have 850 yet so i couldnt tell you but i definitely feel the diference between having 2500+1900 and only having 1900... when i have both i get aroung 35Mbps then i lose 2500 indoors and i get 5-8Mbps but my phone never "disconnects" from lte when im testing that
Sent from my SM-T217S using xda app-developers app
bigblueshock said:
This could be a simple or complex Question/Answer...
Throwing the LTE bands out on the table for non-Spark devices (such as M7) vs. Spark devices (Such as M8)
M7: 1900mhz
M8: 850/1900/2600 MHz
Now those who had an M7 know the fallbacks with the 1900 spectrum. While driving around depending on your area, or limitations of wall penetration, it's very easy to loose LTE and fall back to 3G. Then it's no fun waiting to get back to LTE when your streaming music or video.
The reason I am posting this question is because I don't want to assume, I'd rather have feedback for someone with an M8. If you're inside a building, or driving, have you noticed an improvement with a spark phone?
For instance, is it possible to be on the 850 spectrum and NOT the 1900? or as soon as it looses the 1900 will it still fall back to 3G? I'll be honest, I love/hate LTE on non-spark phones. Love because its unlimited data, hate because of how easy it is to loose LTE. I've had several non-spark phones and had this issue between all of them, and I also have a Verizon phone which is on LTE over 99% of the time. I live in the Tri State Area in NY.
So the bottom line question... If only one band is available (say the 850 because it should theoretically have better wall penetration), will it use that band? Or.. is Sprint Spark all three bands or bust..back to 3G?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, if only one band is available, the M8 will only use that band as long as the signal is strong enough to stay on it. Spark enabled phones have the ability to connect to all 3 bands as you have mentioned but can only connect to a single band at any given time as far as I'm aware. Unless it uses some modulation technology. I haven't read much into it, though.
The 2600Mhz band offers the highest theoretical speed out of all of them. Sprint just calls all their Tri-Band phones, Spark enabled for simple identification and as another means of marketing both their network and devices.
I haven't noticed any issues when I'm driving on my normal routes with the M8. Though, with the M7, I would sometimes hit points where it would drop to 3G and Google Music would buffer slightly and resume playing shortly thereafter. I'm not entirely sure its due to the phone, though as it might just be Google Music caching more data or Sprint has worked on the towers recently. I also haven't paid much attention as to which bands, if any, it has been connecting to as I believe this area is still limited to 1900Mhz LTE.
skizzled said:
Yes, if only one band is available, the M8 will only use that band as long as the signal is strong enough to stay on it. Spark enabled phones have the ability to connect to all 3 bands as you have mentioned but can only connect to a single band at any given time as far as I'm aware. Unless it uses some modulation technology. I haven't read much into it, though.
The 2600Mhz band offers the highest theoretical speed out of all of them. Sprint just calls all their Tri-Band phones, Spark enabled for simple identification and as another means of marketing both their network and devices.
I haven't noticed any issues when I'm driving on my normal routes with the M8. Though, with the M7, I would sometimes hit points where it would drop to 3G and Google Music would buffer slightly and resume playing shortly thereafter. I'm not entirely sure its due to the phone, though as it might just be Google Music caching more data or Sprint has worked on the towers recently. I also haven't paid much attention as to which bands, if any, it has been connecting to as I believe this area is still limited to 1900Mhz LTE.
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Click to collapse
ahh. I was under the impression sprint was able to bond all 3 channels together to get a lot higher speed. but if it only connects to one at a time, that's a different story
bigblueshock said:
ahh. I was under the impression sprint was able to bond all 3 channels together to get a lot higher speed. but if it only connects to one at a time, that's a different story
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That might very well be the case, I'm not entirely sure how the Tri-Band works on Sprint phones yet but will definitely be looking into it moreso since I have a M8.
Band 41 (2500Mhz) will offer higher theoretical speeds at the expense of less range and wall penetration.
Personally, I'm much more interested in Band 26 (800Mhz) as this will hopefully greatly increase range and improve reception. I've been on Sprint long enough to realize that I mostly use data services which don't require huge amounts of bandwidth and when I really need a fast connection, I have access to Wi-Fi more often than not.