Related
Does enyone know how to get onto the EVDO network from Sprint that would allow us to Direct connect with Nextel phones? I have heard that since sprint has come out with phones that utilize the EVDO network to access the Nextel network, people have ripped the software and successfully connected via other Networks.
The Kaiser is a GSM-based phone. There is no way to connect to CDMA/TDMA/EVDO networks with it.
sprint sells a phone called the mogul, or known on xda as the titan, you may wanna check in there...
Mr. NotATreoFan
hello
i thought that Evolution Data Optimized (EVDO) are same as High-Speed Data Protocol Access (HSDPA) but only with higher network speed? But my understanding was wrong. I tried to read difference but could not understand somethign at lay man term. can u please advice on difference.
NotATreoFan said:
The Kaiser is a GSM-based phone. There is no way to connect to CDMA/TDMA/EVDO networks with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EVDO is term used for non-GSM high speed data access. Sprint currently uses EVDO Rev A, for example. HSDPA/HSUPA only applies to GSM networks.
thanks for clarifications
NotATreoFan said:
EVDO is term used for non-GSM high speed data access. Sprint currently uses EVDO Rev A, for example. HSDPA/HSUPA only applies to GSM networks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually...
Not to be a smarty pants, but HSDPA is a form of WCDMA, a software enhancement of the original WCDMA that allows faster data transfer, and emphasizes sound and video transfers too. So, yes, the original post is correct in at least one part of the assumption, that Sprint's CDMA/EVDO network is similar technology. CDMA, and WCDMA are actually evolved from GSM, but, equipment wise, are wholly different deployments from each other. WCDMA was the first 3G technology to be deployed, in Europe and other parts of the world, primarily on the 2100 mhz band. AT&T's deployment of HSDPA (on the ever-so obscure 850mhz band) was the first in the world, but far from the first deployment of CDMA.
My understanding is that T-Mobile will be implementing their HSDPA service in something like 27 new markets here in the next few weeks, so some of us may have a second choice for high speed service.
Incidentally, Sprint, and Verizon's decision to go with plain-ol CDMA for their network deployments will, within the next 10 years or so, turn out to be one of the most financially expensive errors ever seen in the cellular industry, as it prevents them from upgrading and deploying the 4G tech that looks to be the next step for 90% of the planet...LTE. They can, and are, at least in Sprint's case, deploying a comparable tech to LTE called WiMax, however, it is not capable of the same speeds as LTE, at the top end, and will once again, push them into the land of obscurity. Sprint & Verizon are the only 2 major carriers in the world that chose CDMA for their standard when deploying their cellular networks. Losers.....
mandaryn said:
My understanding is that T-Mobile will be implementing their HSDPA service in something like 27 new markets here in the next few weeks, so some of us may have a second choice for high speed service.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The T-Mobile 3G network is supposed to be live by December of this year, but it is running on the 1700MHz band which will eliminate almost all of the current 3G phones out in the US.
...and I hate Sprint and Verizon too.
mandaryn said:
Incidentally, Sprint, and Verizon's decision to go with plain-ol CDMA for their network deployments will, within the next 10 years or so, turn out to be one of the most financially expensive errors ever seen in the cellular industry, as it prevents them from upgrading and deploying the 4G tech that looks to be the next step for 90% of the planet...LTE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
..May be why Sprint is now selling off all it's towers to TowerCo
I have a Galaxy S (i9000t) from Bermuda, and am not happy with my service provider, so I'm looking at switching over to another provider who also sell the Galaxy S i9000t. They just launched 4G service today, and in their list of 4g supported phones they have the SGS. Is this true? I dont understand much on the differences, but they are saying you don't need a new 4G phone, that current phones are compatible. Instore they have the iphone4 and the SGS listed as compatible 4G. Can someone please explain?
http://www.cellularone.bm/4G.asp
The "4G"* that CellularOne are advertising is HSPA+. The Galaxy S I9000 is capable of HSDPA up to 7.2Mbps, but does not have HSPA+ as standard (though T-Mobile US have announced a HSPA+ version for their own network). If the network offers 7.2Mbps HSDPA as well, like T-Mobile US, then you'll still see pretty good speeds from the I9000, but an HSPA+ phone could theoretically download a lot faster on a suitable network.
(* Arguably no current "4G" networks are officially 4G according to the ITU, who decide such things. However, this battle is lost now that so many networks have decided to start using that nomenclature, and even the ITU have been forced to concede that the term may be used to forerunners of true 4G technologies.)
thanks heaps. I appreciate it. I emailed Cellular One today, and interestingly enough, their official response was "the Galaxy S is a 4G phone, you will be able to use that"
Never confuse marketing (which includes what a salesperson tells you) with the truth.
But yeah, the term "4G" seems to have escaped from formal standards, and is basically meaningless.
The following is my understanding of the problem. If any corrects or updates need to be made just post and I will update the OP.
Many N5 users are on Sprint noticing that they are not connecting to LTE. The key here is that the N5 is a single radio Triband LTE CDMA device. There is also a great post that explains everything here (thanks LordLugard) and technical pros and cons as well as nice information on the current state of the network are on post #8.
From the s4gru post:
In previous Sprint LTE phones, when a device was in Sprint LTE coverage it would park in both the LTE and CDMA Sprint networks at the same time. When a voice call came in, it would just go straight through to the device. And signal to the LTE network would be maintained the whole time while the call was active.
In contrast, a Sprint Triband LTE device can only stay on one technology at a time. CDMA or LTE, not both. So when a Sprint LTE Triband device is in Sprint LTE coverage it parks only in LTE. And doing so means it cannot transmit calls or text without Circuit Switched Fallback (CSFB) on the network side. CSFB and eCSFB (Enhanced Circuit Switched Fallback) are network controls that will allow a single mode/single path network to operate in two modes, both CDMA and LTE.
Here is how it works in the simplest way I can describe. When your Triband LTE device has an LTE signal, it cannot receive or make calls/texts on its own. It is just using LTE data happily. However, what if someone calls or texts you? How does it get through the CDMA network to your device? Via CSFB.
When the Sprint network tries to forward a call/text to your device but cannot see it via CDMA, it then checks for an LTE connection to your device. If it sees one, it tells your device to disconnect from LTE for a moment and reconnect to CDMA. Your device then jumps over to take the call or text on Sprint CDMA and the LTE session is interrupted. This happens very fast and seamlessly. Except for the loss of data availability. If it is just a text, the data session is only interrupted for fractions of a second and is likely not even noticed by the user...
...much of Sprint’s legacy network either doesn’t support Circuit Switched Fallback or doesn’t support it in cases where the legacy network equipment is by a different manufacturer than the new Network Vision equipment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So in other words your N5 cannot get phone calls and texts when using LTE while on old crappy legacy towers so it keeps you on 3G.
Warning, I am not responsible for any problems following this advice or code causes. In fact I suggest you stop reading, close your browser and never come back to XDA.
But wait there's a fix!!!
Well not really... but kinda. Type *#*#4636#*#* into your phone dialer and then go to Phone information. From here you can set preferred network type. Choose LTE/GSM/CDMA auto (PRL) (in rare cases LTE only (PRL) maybe required). Now you will auto connect to LTE if it is available. The problem is that if your on a legacy tower you will not receive texts or phone calls when on LTE. It's easy enough to switch between LTE/CDMA auto (PRL) and LTE/GSM/CDMA auto (PRL) on the fly but that's no solution, it just builds the hatred in your blood.
Update - This app is not needed but will be left up. See update 2.
I've built a really simple app to help with this. All the app does is put the above code into your clipboard and launch your dialer. You can then just paste and it will launch the Tester/PhoneInfomation of your phone.
Full source here. The apk is also in the repo.
Update 2
No Dialer codes need. Just install this app and it will launch the activity you need. Credit to DMX31 for posting this link I this thread.
I haven't had any issues so far with LTE (sending texts, making and receiving calls) on my Nexus 5 and i'm in a spark launch city.
I'm not even going to pretend to understand half of what's being discussed because I don't care enough...
I have a lte tower right by my house and can't conext to lte on my n5. 4 other phones connect just fine cause it's a strong signal. Called sprint and they said it's a known problem. This is ridiculous. If it's not fixed by my 14 days it's going back. Can't stand not having lte
Sent from my SPH-L900 using xda premium
This problem effects me, so bad to the point I just sold my N5 and went back to my CM S3. Kudos if you're not having issues, but lots are. The hours on tech support and browsing forums searching for a fix is not worth the effort over a piece of plastic to me with no ETA on when all the towers will be upgraded. Probably months out in my particular area. Happily chugging along on LTE again, maybe I'll try the nexus again next year.
Wait of the n5 is single band lte and sprint is changing their phones to single band to. Shouldn't this be a problem soon to go away?
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
It's only a problem in some markets. No issues where I am, for example, but in Chattanooga where I will be moving, the towers are only 4G accepted, not 3G/4G (from what I hear). This problem should be going away for anyone in completed 3G markets soon, and for markets that are not 3G accepted, Sprint should be ramping up the pace of the completions through vendor incentives.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
graffix31 said:
Wait of the n5 is single band lte and sprint is changing their phones to single band to. Shouldn't this be a problem soon to go away?
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that the key is them updating their towers. I don't know about where you live but that doesn't occur quickly in Raleigh North Carolina.
MinceMan said:
I think that the key is them updating their towers. I don't know about where you live but that doesn't occur quickly in Raleigh North Carolina.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The key is Network Vision 3G upgrades so the phone can talk to the eCSFB side of the network. Incumbent vendor regions that are mostly not affected are regions where Alcatel-Lucent took over Lucent and Ericsson took over Nortel. Those should be fine and if there are issues then it's really just a software update on the cell site.
In areas where there's non-incumbent equipment then it's a big deal. Areas taken over such as Motorola will have an issue. Then there are the Samsung vendor regions.
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Every Samsung region is a non-incumbent region (except PR/VI) and are guaranteed to have issues because Samsung is replacing Nortel, Motorola (hard handoffs known for a while - see Chicago), and etc. According to the document I'll quote below the only mitigation for the eCSFB gaps are to actually quickly complete the network rollout / conversion and fire up NV 3G as soon as possible so Tri-Band devices can actually talk to the LTE core and 3G side.
Explains the apparent "lack" of work in Samsung markets but a huge number of sites physically completed. No time for acceptance / integration when you must complete as many sites as possible to mitigate the eCSFB gaps.
Sprint eCSFB Gap Issue Legal Approved Talking Points:
eCSFB Gap Talking Points
Sprint’s Network Vision Plan (Spectrum)
Sprint’s Network Vision plan includes access to three spectrum bands, (1.9, 800 and 2.5), and LTE handsets with a single radio.
Access to diverse spectrum assets allows Sprint to maximize capacity and coverage.
Current Sprint LTE Devices (2 Radios)
Current Sprint LTE devices are Simultaneous Voice and LTE (SVLTE)—using two radios, one for voice and one for LTE data. This allows CDMA calls and LTE to operate at the same time.
Dual Radio SVLTE devices can degrade the user’s quality of experience – two antennas may slow throughput at the cell edge and reduce battery life.
Future Sprint LTE Devices (1 Radio)
CSFB and eCSFB (Circuit Switch Fall Back and enhanced Circuit Switch Fall Back) are features that enable single radio functionality in the handset.
eCSFB Benefits:
With eCSFB implementation, Sprint will be able to offer fast LTE data speeds and 3G voice supported on single radio devices. This provides a more cost effective option for Sprint’s long-term business plans to support additional spectrum bands.
eCSFB is expected to improve handset battery life compared to SVLTE.
eCSFB Gap Issue – What you Need to know:
Smart devices require eCSFB to “fall back” to 3G to accept a voice call if the user is connected to the LTE network.
All markets need to be upgraded with eCSFB capability.
eCSFB Gaps are only in non-incumbent markets where a site has 4G LTE and no 3G upgrade.
4G LTE integration with 3G is different by OEM type:
Incumbent markets – LTE 4G only sites can communicate with either legacy 3G or NV 3G sites.
Non-Incumbent – LTE 4G can only communicate with NV 3G sites; so individual sites need both NV upgrades.
LTE devices – Customer Experience
When 4G LTE is deployed in a non-incumbent market on sites without upgrade to 3G service, there is a gap.
Existing Devices – No Impact
eCSFB Devices – Phone becomes 3G only device
Non-Launched Markets
No coverage visible on Sprint.com maps but different experience for users with existing devices versus new eCSFB devices.
Launched Markets
Sprint coverage tools will display LTE coverage. For new LTE smart device users this could be confusing since they would expect LTE and 3G coverage with the device they purchased, but would not experience LTE until the 3G network is upgraded.
Mitigation plan:
New LTE Markets
When locking new LTE markets for announcement/ launch, eCSFB deployment status will be a factor in the analysis. New LTE markets will not be announced unless the eCSFB gap risk is low.
Complete the build quickly in eCSFB gap impacted markets.
Acronyms
CSFB – Circuit Switch Fall Back. It allows for single radio devices. (ERC)
eCSFB – Enhanced Circuit Switch Fall Back Next generation CSFB. (ALU, STA)
SVLTE – Simultaneous Voice & LTE. Allows CDMA calls and LTE to operate simultaneously
Incumbent – An incumbent market is one in which the OEM stays the same as before Network Vision
Non-incumbent – A market in which the OEM changes as well as all of the equipment.
ERC - Ericsson
ALU – Alcatel Lucent
STA - Samsung
NV – Network Vision
OEM – Original Equipment Manufacturer (ERC, ALU, STA)
Gap – 4G LTE on sites without appropriate upgrades to 3G service
1.9 GHz Spectrum - Provides initial capacity and coverage for voice and data services.
800 MHz Spectrum - Improves coverage and in-building penetration for all services.
2.5 GHz Spectrum - Increases data capacity to support higher data demands and more users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^^this. To the OP, this is only a temporary problem, as it is not in Sprint's future plan to keep any markets in a eCSFB gap. This is just an unfortunate side-effect of the rollout not being finished.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
squshy 7 said:
^^this. To the OP, this is only a temporary problem, as it is not in Sprint's future plan to keep any markets in a eCSFB gap. This is just an unfortunate side-effect of the rollout not being finished.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RANT:
Temporary yes but really what does that mean. I'm guessing maybe between 1-2 years? By the time it's fixed in my area I might not even have this phone any longer. Their network has been a mess for years and I'm paying good money for this crap.
Is this related to my data dropping completely by any chance? I can connect to 3G and 4G fine, but after a random amount of time the data connecting just disappears but I can still make calls and send texts.
The Nexus 5 is a great phone, but I'm finding this whole situation pretty frustrating so far.
persibro said:
Is this related to my data dropping completely by any chance? I can connect to 3G and 4G fine, but after a random amount of time the data connecting just disappears but I can still make calls and send texts.
The Nexus 5 is a great phone, but I'm finding this whole situation pretty frustrating so far.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have not experienced that and it doesn't sound like the same problem to me...
The easiest way(for me) to toggle between networks is this app
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.mangelow.network&hl=en
No dialer codes needed.
So here's something that's happening to me. I'll send a message and it'll be stuck on sending. BUT. If I place a call and let it connect then hang up the text will go through fine. I'm in Dallas and have LTE almost everywhere but my house lol. Sometimes i'll get LTE upstairs at my house.
I can also remember doing this on my Evo 3D around September-November 2011
S4GRU Nails it..
This article from S4GRU says it all.
http://s4gru.com/index.php?/blog/1/...-due-to-circuit-switched-fallback-technology/
LordLugard said:
This article from S4GRU says it all.
http://s4gru.com/index.php?/blog/1/...-due-to-circuit-switched-fallback-technology/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lord: Thanks for that link. That was about the best, most comforting information I've read in a long time and helps to clarify the issue.
chugger93 said:
Lord: Thanks for that link. That was about the best, most comforting information I've read in a long time and helps to clarify the issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're welcome.
LordLugard said:
This article from S4GRU says it all.
http://s4gru.com/index.php?/blog/1/...-due-to-circuit-switched-fallback-technology/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting...Thanks for this. I wonder if lack of CSFB in one's market would be grounds for waiving the ETF...
Sent from my EVO LTE
MinceMan said:
But wait there's a fix!!!
Well not really... but kinda. Type *#*#4636#*#* into your phone dialer and then go to Phone information. From here you can set preferred network type. Choose LTE/GSM/CDMA auto (PRL). Now you will auto connect to LTE if it is available. The problem is that if your on a legacy tower you will not receive texts or phone calls when on LTE. It's easy enough to switch between LTE/CDMA auto (PRL) and LTE/GSM/CDMA auto (PRL) on the fly but that's no solution, it just builds the hatred in your blood.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I go into *#*#4636#*#* and force LTE Only in Phone info, the radio indicator in the notification area shows me as having four bars of LTE, but the Current network indicator stays in the Searching for Service state and never progresses past this point.
I am however, able to run a ping test on that screen, and while both the "ping hostname" and "http client test" pass, the "ping ipaddr" test fails with "IP addr not reachable".
Is this what others are experiencing as well in markets where you have to force LTE?
@geoff2k Yes to all.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Just received my new HTC One (M8) yesterday. After setting it up and thinking everything was good to go. I made a phone call and tried to look up something on the internet. The page didn't pull up and when I looked at the status bar I noticed that the LTE symbol was gone. I looked in setting and my mobile data was on but showing disconnected. Has anyone else not be able to use voice and data together?
palo117 said:
Just received my new HTC One (M8) yesterday. After setting it up and thinking everything was good to go. I made a phone call and tried to look up something on the internet. The page didn't pull up and when I looked at the status bar I noticed that the LTE symbol was gone. I looked in setting and my mobile data was on but showing disconnected. Has anyone else not be able to use voice and data together?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's been like since the Evo 4G LTE days.
From s4gru dot com (can't post link for being too much of a noob on this site still)
"In previous Sprint LTE phones, when a device was in Sprint LTE coverage it would park in both the LTE and CDMA Sprint networks at the same time. When a voice call came in, it would just go straight through to the device. And signal to the LTE network would be maintained the whole time while the call was active.
In contrast, a Sprint Triband LTE device can only stay on one technology at a time. CDMA or LTE, not both. So when a Sprint LTE Triband device is in Sprint LTE coverage it parks only in LTE. And doing so means it cannot transmit calls without Circuit Switched Fallback (CSFB) on the network side. CSFB and eCSFB (Enhanced Circuit Switched Fallback) are network controls that will allow a single mode/single path network to operate in two modes, both CDMA and LTE.
Here is how it works in the simplest way I can describe. When your Triband LTE device has an LTE signal, it cannot receive or make calls on its own. It is just using LTE data happily. However, what if someone calls you? How does it get through the CDMA network to your device? Via CSFB.
When the Sprint network tries to forward a call to your device but cannot see it via CDMA, it then checks for an LTE connection to your device. If it sees one, it tells your device to disconnect from LTE for a moment and reconnect to CDMA. Your device then jumps over to take the call on Sprint CDMA and the LTE session is interrupted. This happens very fast and seamlessly. Except for the loss of data availability. If you receive a text, the Sprint network is able to route it to your device via LTE."
This is why I tried to upgrade from the EVO 4G to the EVO 4G LTE recently, I was trying to get a phone that handled LTE and had SVLTE, but it didn't work out reception-wise in my area, so bit the bullet and got the M8, knowing that if I use it for tethering will have to figure out if there is a way to force it to stay in LTE and have phone calls go straight to voice mail.
rhe12 said:
From s4gru dot com (can't post link for being too much of a noob on this site still)
"In previous Sprint LTE phones, when a device was in Sprint LTE coverage it would park in both the LTE and CDMA Sprint networks at the same time. When a voice call came in, it would just go straight through to the device. And signal to the LTE network would be maintained the whole time while the call was active.
In contrast, a Sprint Triband LTE device can only stay on one technology at a time. CDMA or LTE, not both. So when a Sprint LTE Triband device is in Sprint LTE coverage it parks only in LTE. And doing so means it cannot transmit calls without Circuit Switched Fallback (CSFB) on the network side. CSFB and eCSFB (Enhanced Circuit Switched Fallback) are network controls that will allow a single mode/single path network to operate in two modes, both CDMA and LTE.
Here is how it works in the simplest way I can describe. When your Triband LTE device has an LTE signal, it cannot receive or make calls on its own. It is just using LTE data happily. However, what if someone calls you? How does it get through the CDMA network to your device? Via CSFB.
When the Sprint network tries to forward a call to your device but cannot see it via CDMA, it then checks for an LTE connection to your device. If it sees one, it tells your device to disconnect from LTE for a moment and reconnect to CDMA. Your device then jumps over to take the call on Sprint CDMA and the LTE session is interrupted. This happens very fast and seamlessly. Except for the loss of data availability. If you receive a text, the Sprint network is able to route it to your device via LTE."
This is why I tried to upgrade from the EVO 4G to the EVO 4G LTE recently, I was trying to get a phone that handled LTE and had SVLTE, but it didn't work out reception-wise in my area, so bit the bullet and got the M8, knowing that if I use it for tethering will have to figure out if there is a way to force it to stay in LTE and have phone calls go straight to voice mail.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the info. I just came from the HTC Evo 4G LTE. Never had any problems with Simultaneous Voice and Data so I was very surprised when I couldn't talk and use data on this phone. Of course Sprint tech support was useless. They believe it should work just fine.
Thanks again!
Im on m7 currently talking on the phone and checking email... are you saying I wont b able to do this on the m8?
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using XDA Premium HD app
thesabri said:
Im on m7 currently talking on the phone and checking email... are you saying I wont b able to do this on the m8?
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using XDA Premium HD app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apparently so, more or less. See http://www.fiercewireless.com/story...upport-simultaneous-voice-and-data/2013-11-19
thesabri said:
Im on m7 currently talking on the phone and checking email... are you saying I wont b able to do this on the m8?
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using XDA Premium HD app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes that's exactly what it means. After discussing this on various forums it seems that no new phones on Sprint will be able to do voice and data simultaneously. The tri-band doesn't all these phones to operate on both the LTE band and the CDMA band at the same time. I'm trying to decide now if I'm going to return my M8 and switch to T-Mobile. Then purchase it from them.
this may be a deal breaker for me as well. i have been paying for wimax wifi untill lte deployed in my area... that the phone i want wont allow the vlte is very disapointing.
I thought I heard a while ago that is a thing of the past. GS3 (and apparently the Evo 4G lte) was the last to be able to do that. They removed that feature from the S4, and any device from that point on iirc. Not 100% on all that, but I know I read something like that before.
Never investigated as to why, but the only thing I can think of would be for safety reasons. Its bad enough that people text and drive, and I can just imagine how many would be driving, on the phone, and texting, or trying to browse the web.
Certainly a feature I will miss though, coming from an S3. Neither my wife nor mom want to upgrade because they don't want to lose that capability.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda app-developers app
It works on the m7 so that's not true djroc007
Sent from my HTC One
indiscriminant said:
It works on the m7 so that's not true djroc007
Sent from my HTC One
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He probably meant while on 3g.
Sent from my lair.
indiscriminant said:
It works on the m7 so that's not true djroc007
Sent from my HTC One
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think the m7 is a tri-band phone so it should work.... it works on my evo lte no matter what network im connected to but on my m8 it wont work at all.. I will try in on the g2 because that's also a tri-band phone and see what happends
Fair enough. I wasn't 100% sure, I just remember seeing somewhere that they were doing away with that capability at some point. It's stupid though either way. There's been plenty of times while talking about something on the phone where I've said "hold on, I'll Google it", or had the other person send me a picture of something. Will miss that feature.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda app-developers app
For clarity, please confirm is my understanding is true: this issue will be fixed in time, but we just don't know when - and Sprint is being shady about it.
I am an AT&T customer on the old Skyrocket. Long overdue for an upgrade, and I've been leaning toward switching to Sprint and getting the m8 ('real' unlimited data is a major factor). Now I'm weighing this issue, deciding whether it's significant enough to not make the switch after all.
buffjam9011 said:
For clarity, please confirm is my understanding is true: this issue will be fixed in time, but we just don't know when - and Sprint is being shady about it.
I am an AT&T customer on the old Skyrocket. Long overdue for an upgrade, and I've been leaning toward switching to Sprint and getting the m8 ('real' unlimited data is a major factor). Now I'm weighing this issue, deciding whether it's significant enough to not make the switch after all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, this is not really an “issue” since it’s not a feature that’s performing improperly. SVDO and SVLTE (being able to hold a call while on 3G or LTE, respectively) is simply not possible due to the new antenna design.
On the EVO 4G LTE, SVDO and SVLTE were both possible, but that phone wasn’t the greatest RF performer. On the One M7, SVLTE was still possible, but SVDO was removed to help offset RF fade so that the signal could be improved. I suspect that the antenna design was changed again on the M8 to further increase performance, but at the cost of only being able to do voice OR data at any given time. Also, there appears to be a network limitation with tri-band LTE devices. See the post from rhe12:
rhe12 said:
From s4gru dot com (can't post link for being too much of a noob on this site still)
"In previous Sprint LTE phones, when a device was in Sprint LTE coverage it would park in both the LTE and CDMA Sprint networks at the same time. When a voice call came in, it would just go straight through to the device. And signal to the LTE network would be maintained the whole time while the call was active.
In contrast, a Sprint Triband LTE device can only stay on one technology at a time. CDMA or LTE, not both. So when a Sprint LTE Triband device is in Sprint LTE coverage it parks only in LTE. And doing so means it cannot transmit calls without Circuit Switched Fallback (CSFB) on the network side. CSFB and eCSFB (Enhanced Circuit Switched Fallback) are network controls that will allow a single mode/single path network to operate in two modes, both CDMA and LTE.
Here is how it works in the simplest way I can describe. When your Triband LTE device has an LTE signal, it cannot receive or make calls on its own. It is just using LTE data happily. However, what if someone calls you? How does it get through the CDMA network to your device? Via CSFB.
When the Sprint network tries to forward a call to your device but cannot see it via CDMA, it then checks for an LTE connection to your device. If it sees one, it tells your device to disconnect from LTE for a moment and reconnect to CDMA. Your device then jumps over to take the call on Sprint CDMA and the LTE session is interrupted. This happens very fast and seamlessly. Except for the loss of data availability. If you receive a text, the Sprint network is able to route it to your device via LTE."
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Apparently in a theoretical future, when Sprint rolls out voice over LTE, this issue would, well, not be an issue anymore.
"Schlageter said the tri-mode LTE smartphones will be able to handle simultaneous voice and LTE data when Sprint deploys Voice over LTE. She noted Sprint has not yet set a timetable for when that will happen."
Source: http://www.fiercewireless.com/story...upport-simultaneous-voice-and-data/2013-11-19
Thanks for the replies. Seems like a usability oversight (or just bad decision) to me. Are other carriers able to support SVLTE or SVDO on Triband LTE devices or is this a device constraint?
Thinking about it, I only occasionally use data and voice at the same time so this might be more of a minor irritation to me. I have a question for those you who have experience with this - Is there any noticeable lag when CSFB occurs for either user (caller/receiver)?
Also, the language in the spokeswoman's replies in that article is frustrating.
buffjam9011 said:
Thanks for the replies. Seems like a usability oversight (or just bad decision) to me. Are other carriers able to support SVLTE or SVDO on Triband LTE devices or is this a device constraint?
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I wouldn’t say it’s an “oversight,” either. I would say it’s more of a limitation of the compromise between RF performance and features. Sprint’s M8 variant will have access to more LTE bands in more areas than any of the other carriers. I could be wrong, but I suspect that the trade-off for SVLTE has something to do with the fact that the Sprint M8 will be switching between LTE bands more often than other carriers’ variants. Let’s take a look:
For the One M8, these are the LTE frequencies that each carrier-specific phone has the radio/antenna for:
AT&T: 700/850/AWS/1800/1900/2600 MHz
Sprint: FDD 800/1900 MHz , TDD 2600 MHz
Verizon: 700/AWS/1800/2600 MHz
TMUS: 700/AWS MHz
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Source: M8 spec page
As it currently stands, these are the LTE frequencies the above carriers have deployed or will soon deploy:
AT&T: 700/AWS/1900/2300 MHz
Sprint: 800/1900/2500 (2600) MHz
Verizon: 700/AWS MHz
TMUS: 700/AWS/1900 MHz
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Sources:
List of LTE networks - Wikipedia
AT&T Mobility - Wikipedia
Sprint - Wikipedia
Verizon - Wikipedia
T-Mobile USA - Wikipedia
This means that only the AT&T and Sprint versions can use 3 LTE bands on their respective networks. However, since only Sprint will have all 3 bands available nationwide, I suspect that there might be something network-related which would allow the AT&T model to still allow SVLTE, but again, I could be wrong. I think I’ll take this to S4GRU.com to fact-check.
This could be a simple or complex Question/Answer...
Throwing the LTE bands out on the table for non-Spark devices (such as M7) vs. Spark devices (Such as M8)
M7: 1900mhz
M8: 850/1900/2600 MHz
Now those who had an M7 know the fallbacks with the 1900 spectrum. While driving around depending on your area, or limitations of wall penetration, it's very easy to loose LTE and fall back to 3G. Then it's no fun waiting to get back to LTE when your streaming music or video.
The reason I am posting this question is because I don't want to assume, I'd rather have feedback for someone with an M8. If you're inside a building, or driving, have you noticed an improvement with a spark phone?
For instance, is it possible to be on the 850 spectrum and NOT the 1900? or as soon as it looses the 1900 will it still fall back to 3G? I'll be honest, I love/hate LTE on non-spark phones. Love because its unlimited data, hate because of how easy it is to loose LTE. I've had several non-spark phones and had this issue between all of them, and I also have a Verizon phone which is on LTE over 99% of the time. I live in the Tri State Area in NY.
So the bottom line question... If only one band is available (say the 850 because it should theoretically have better wall penetration), will it use that band? Or.. is Sprint Spark all three bands or bust..back to 3G?
im pretty sure from what ive read that spark uses all bands at the same time, so if you lose one youll still be connected on the others until you lose them all. my area doesnt have 850 yet so i couldnt tell you but i definitely feel the diference between having 2500+1900 and only having 1900... when i have both i get aroung 35Mbps then i lose 2500 indoors and i get 5-8Mbps but my phone never "disconnects" from lte when im testing that
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bigblueshock said:
This could be a simple or complex Question/Answer...
Throwing the LTE bands out on the table for non-Spark devices (such as M7) vs. Spark devices (Such as M8)
M7: 1900mhz
M8: 850/1900/2600 MHz
Now those who had an M7 know the fallbacks with the 1900 spectrum. While driving around depending on your area, or limitations of wall penetration, it's very easy to loose LTE and fall back to 3G. Then it's no fun waiting to get back to LTE when your streaming music or video.
The reason I am posting this question is because I don't want to assume, I'd rather have feedback for someone with an M8. If you're inside a building, or driving, have you noticed an improvement with a spark phone?
For instance, is it possible to be on the 850 spectrum and NOT the 1900? or as soon as it looses the 1900 will it still fall back to 3G? I'll be honest, I love/hate LTE on non-spark phones. Love because its unlimited data, hate because of how easy it is to loose LTE. I've had several non-spark phones and had this issue between all of them, and I also have a Verizon phone which is on LTE over 99% of the time. I live in the Tri State Area in NY.
So the bottom line question... If only one band is available (say the 850 because it should theoretically have better wall penetration), will it use that band? Or.. is Sprint Spark all three bands or bust..back to 3G?
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Yes, if only one band is available, the M8 will only use that band as long as the signal is strong enough to stay on it. Spark enabled phones have the ability to connect to all 3 bands as you have mentioned but can only connect to a single band at any given time as far as I'm aware. Unless it uses some modulation technology. I haven't read much into it, though.
The 2600Mhz band offers the highest theoretical speed out of all of them. Sprint just calls all their Tri-Band phones, Spark enabled for simple identification and as another means of marketing both their network and devices.
I haven't noticed any issues when I'm driving on my normal routes with the M8. Though, with the M7, I would sometimes hit points where it would drop to 3G and Google Music would buffer slightly and resume playing shortly thereafter. I'm not entirely sure its due to the phone, though as it might just be Google Music caching more data or Sprint has worked on the towers recently. I also haven't paid much attention as to which bands, if any, it has been connecting to as I believe this area is still limited to 1900Mhz LTE.
skizzled said:
Yes, if only one band is available, the M8 will only use that band as long as the signal is strong enough to stay on it. Spark enabled phones have the ability to connect to all 3 bands as you have mentioned but can only connect to a single band at any given time as far as I'm aware. Unless it uses some modulation technology. I haven't read much into it, though.
The 2600Mhz band offers the highest theoretical speed out of all of them. Sprint just calls all their Tri-Band phones, Spark enabled for simple identification and as another means of marketing both their network and devices.
I haven't noticed any issues when I'm driving on my normal routes with the M8. Though, with the M7, I would sometimes hit points where it would drop to 3G and Google Music would buffer slightly and resume playing shortly thereafter. I'm not entirely sure its due to the phone, though as it might just be Google Music caching more data or Sprint has worked on the towers recently. I also haven't paid much attention as to which bands, if any, it has been connecting to as I believe this area is still limited to 1900Mhz LTE.
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ahh. I was under the impression sprint was able to bond all 3 channels together to get a lot higher speed. but if it only connects to one at a time, that's a different story
bigblueshock said:
ahh. I was under the impression sprint was able to bond all 3 channels together to get a lot higher speed. but if it only connects to one at a time, that's a different story
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That might very well be the case, I'm not entirely sure how the Tri-Band works on Sprint phones yet but will definitely be looking into it moreso since I have a M8.
Band 41 (2500Mhz) will offer higher theoretical speeds at the expense of less range and wall penetration.
Personally, I'm much more interested in Band 26 (800Mhz) as this will hopefully greatly increase range and improve reception. I've been on Sprint long enough to realize that I mostly use data services which don't require huge amounts of bandwidth and when I really need a fast connection, I have access to Wi-Fi more often than not.