Database Develop

GPU support!! WHY NOT???????

Let me start by saying I love Android. I love Google. Not only is Android an extremely powerful OS with a wonderful interface but I love the whole open ethos behind it, led by Google, the good guys.
But I just can't for the life of my understand why GPU support is not being introduced, or at least acknowledged that it's missing and it's coming.
I'm running Froyo, and whilst it may well be 500 gazillion times faster crunching numbers and performing data intensive tasks and whatever, it doesn't feel it as I use the phone next to an iphone 3gs.
Manipulating every single screen, every single swipe, window, everything including menus and web browsing just doesn't feel as good as on the iphone. Even if it is is technically faster, what good is it when the thing just doesn't feel as good? It might as well be slower, because how something feels has the bigger impact on people's perceptions.
I understand it's not as easy to accomplish as apple did it being as they only have one phone etc, but surely there's got to be some way?
Why is this issue not bigger within the Android community? Everybody knows the iphone is more fluid to use no matter how much we might want to deny it to ourselves.

It's easy to be smoother when you can't do more than one thing at a time.

Apple moves basically a wallpaper with icons, which is just a picture.
Android moves widgets and live wallpaper. Tons of CPU used for that. Turn off your live wallpaper, disable widgets - get the same scrolling as iPhone.
GPU is there and has nothing to do with it.
Search would have helped avoiding useless complaints in capital letters with tons of "?"s.
If the visuals are so important to you - get an iPhone. System limitations - there's only so much that can be done between battery life, multitasking and graphics. iPhone uses graphics at the expense of multitasking, Android does otherwise.

shrub said:
Let me start by saying I love Android. I love Google. Not only is Android an extremely powerful OS with a wonderful interface but I love the whole open ethos behind it, led by Google, the good guys.
But I just can't for the life of my understand why GPU support is not being introduced, or at least acknowledged that it's missing and it's coming.
I'm running Froyo, and whilst it may well be 500 gazillion times faster crunching numbers and performing data intensive tasks and whatever, it doesn't feel it as I use the phone next to an iphone 3gs.
Manipulating every single screen, every single swipe, window, everything including menus and web browsing just doesn't feel as good as on the iphone. Even if it is is technically faster, what good is it when the thing just doesn't feel as good? It might as well be slower, because how something feels has the bigger impact on people's perceptions.
I understand it's not as easy to accomplish as apple did it being as they only have one phone etc, but surely there's got to be some way?
Why is this issue not bigger within the Android community? Everybody knows the iphone is more fluid to use no matter how much we might want to deny it to ourselves.
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I am the most unbiased person I've ever met and I will honestly tell you that the response on my phone is as fast and smooth as I have ever seen on any phone. I don't think it can get better. I do not like the grid popping in the Nexus Launcher though. I wish it would just scroll like the old versions.
You don't have a real question in all honesty. Your question is, why is it not like the iPhone and why is it not "smooth" to you personally. That's just the way one person feels. I like the way the N1 feels across the entire OS. They're two different OS's and Phones so they're never going to be the same. I think you really just prefer one over the other in your own opinion. Neither of them can be called better outside of an opinion so nothing will change.

I will sacrifice fluidity any day for functionality.
Also, do you have any idea of what Android has come from, in the sense of versioning? I am certain that this is almost identical the iPhone OS/Hardware Saga from version 1 and up.

I have a question. Why is there so much comparison to iphone. I think android Smashes them but why post topic after topic about that... where's that one mod. He should delete this.

temperbad said:
I have a question. Why is there so much comparison to iphone. I think android Smashes them but why post topic after topic about that... where's that one mod. He should delete this.
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There is always a comparison of the top two of anything. Android and iPhone are very similar and they're they top devices so they're going to get compared. 99.999% of the comparisons are biased in some way but the fact is that neither of them are factually better than the other. They both have amazing features that the other doesn't and the word "better" and your decision come down to your personal preferences. I don't like iTunes, I think widgets are a MUST for me and I enjoy modding my phone without going through hell to do it or getting the cops called on me so I chose Android. Also I have been behind everything Google has done for many years and I will continue to love the company but biased attitudes are something I try to avoid. Not only do you not learn anything but you look foolish acting that way [I'm not talking about you personally I'm speaking in general].

Wow, I'm surprised to see that I'm one of the only people who completely agree with the original poster.
This isn't limited to the launcher. As the OP stated, literally every on screen motion is smoother on the iPhone.
This isn't because of the lack of multitasking on the iPhone because iOS 4 looks just as smooth.
It is either a consequence of the threading used in gui programs and/or better use of the GPU for animations and scrolling. It seems to me on my Nexus that in most cases scrolling and animations are slower when the CPU is processing something where as on an iPhone the scrolling seems smooth regardless of the processes involved.
One of my complaints along these lines is scrolling in the Android web browser isn't nearly as nice as even the slower iPhone 3G, much less an iPhone 3GS.

dalingrin said:
Wow, I'm surprised to see that I'm one of the only people who completely agree with the original poster.
This isn't limited to the launcher. As the OP stated, literally every on screen motion is smoother on the iPhone.
This isn't because of the lack of multitasking on the iPhone because iOS 4 looks just as smooth.
It is either a consequence of the threading used in gui programs and/or better use of the GPU for animations and scrolling. It seems to me on my Nexus that in most cases scrolling and animations are slower when the CPU is processing something where as on an iPhone the scrolling seems smooth regardless of the processes involved.
One of my complaints along these lines is scrolling in the Android web browser isn't nearly as nice as even the slower iPhone 3G, much less an iPhone 3GS.
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Agreed, Ill take Android's greater capabilities over Iphone's fluidity any day but both would be sweet.

DMaverick50 said:
Agreed, Ill take Android's greater capabilities over Iphone's fluidity any day but both would be sweet.
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Without a doubt. I'm just not convinced the two are mutually exclusive.

Paul22000 said:
It's easy to be smoother when you can't do more than one thing at a time.
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Once I saw this post I knew I didn't have to look at the rest of the thread since this answered it all

I disable screen animations. I have no need for worthless eye-candy. Just give me whatever I tapped on as fast as possible.
Love it.

mortzz said:
I disable screen animations. I have no need for worthless eye-candy. Just give me whatever I tapped on as fast as possible.
Love it.
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I either turn the animations off or turn their speed up. IMO scrolling is more of an issue than animations.
Example:
Goto www.androidcentral.com or www.anandtech.com on a Nexus One and with the page zoomed all the way out try scrolling. At the top of the page my frame rate is <15.
Now do the same on a wee iPhone(even first gen) and see how smooth the scrolling is.
Is it end of the world? No, of course not. I am very satisfied with my phone compared to my previous iPhone 3GS and 3G. That said, considering my main use of my phone(beyond being a phone) is web browsing, I would still love to have the scrolling of my "crap" iPhone.

Its a genuine complaint.
The lack of smooth visuals is getting silly. I think Google bringing in the guy from Palm/Danger is an ackowledgment of this.
Its not cpu , its not ram, its not multitasking. Its Apple that has some if not the best UI guys in the business in terms of visuals. Id say WebOS guys were the tops but they were mostly old Apple guys so go figure.
Apple spends a ton of time and offort making sure everything looks fluid across the entire experience. Android does not. Its simply not something theyve taken seriously until 2.1. They are the best engineers in the world..not GUI designers. The fact the Gallery still has 16 bit depth is a tell tale sign they arent emphasizing visuals.
Anyways the GPU is underused. UI , Games , Codecs theres a alot of room for improvement. Androids UI is "better"...but lets not kid ourselves..the animations and fluidity are heavily in Apples corner. Loks are important; otherwise go date a fat hairy girl.

I thought I was quite picky but I don't notice any problems with my nexus
Maybe I haven't spent that much time playing with iPhones but when I have seen people using them they press something and have to wait for it to load, they get a grey checker pattern when they scroll too fast in the browser. Sometimes their swipes didn't register either.

xManMythLegend said:
Its a genuine complaint.
The lack of smooth visuals is getting silly. I think Google bringing in the guy from Palm/Danger is an ackowledgment of this.
Its not cpu , its not ram, its not multitasking. Its Apple that has some if not the best UI guys in the business in terms of visuals. Id say WebOS guys were the tops but they were mostly old Apple guys so go figure.
Apple spends a ton of time and offort making sure everything looks fluid across the entire experience. Android does not. Its simply not something theyve taken seriously until 2.1. They are the best engineers in the world..not GUI designers. The fact the Gallery still has 16 bit depth is a tell tale sign they arent emphasizing visuals.
Anyways the GPU is underused. UI , Games , Codecs theres a alot of room for improvement. Androids UI is "better"...but lets not kid ourselves..the animations and fluidity are heavily in Apples corner. Loks are important; otherwise go date a fat hairy girl.
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I agree with this wholeheartedly. Android really just isn't the most aesthetically pleasing user interface around, I've never owned an iPhone - and don't plan to, but Apple simply knows their stuff when it comes graphic design..

There's been some info on this issue on the android-platform groups and the skia rendering engine group (Skia acutally has an experimental OpenGL rendering branch).
From what I understand, hardware acceleration can't be implemented in older devices (ex: G1) because they only support one OpenGL instance at a time, meaning the launcher could be in conflit with apps. It also seems as if the stuttering we feel is actually caused by Android's garbage colletor because it blocks the UI thread when it kicks in and not because the phone's cpu cant keep up with scrolling. If you watched some of the Google I/O 2010 videos, they said they know of the issues with the garbage collector and they are working on it.
My guess is that hardware acceleration will come sooner or later (specially with the Tegra 2 chips and tablet format ) but if you want to make things move a bit you can always go to code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=6914 and star the issue (consider it a vote ).
New here btw, hello all

dalingrin said:
I either turn the animations off or turn their speed up. IMO scrolling is more of an issue than animations.
Example:
Goto www.androidcentral.com or www.anandtech.com on a Nexus One and with the page zoomed all the way out try scrolling. At the top of the page my frame rate is <15.
Now do the same on a wee iPhone(even first gen) and see how smooth the scrolling is.
Is it end of the world? No, of course not. I am very satisfied with my phone compared to my previous iPhone 3GS and 3G. That said, considering my main use of my phone(beyond being a phone) is web browsing, I would still love to have the scrolling of my "crap" iPhone.
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I just tested anandtech.com on my N1 using Dolphin HD and have Froyo installed. The page was pretty much butter smooth except the top which had a flash banner ad and a flash "news reel". Of course the iPhone is going to be smoother at the top of that page since it doesn't show any flash elements. Not to say I don't want smoother scrolling when there are flash elements, but I'd rather have them showing with a little choppy frame rate than not at all.

RE: GPU Support
It's a common misconception that Android is slow changing windows and stuff- just go to Spare Parts and turn the window animations off.

my nexus next to the iphone, the nexus is just as smooth and fast to my eyes. the nexus is actually buttery smooth. using launcher pro. maybe that is what makes the difference i bet.

WP7 and Snapdragon - How is it so smooth?

forgiveness if this is wrong info, but i believe many of the first gen WP7 devices are using the same snapdragon CPU and GPU combo as the nexus one, the adreno 2.5 i believe. yet those devices are smooth as butter on all parts of the OS, including any web page you throw at the browser.
is there a reason why the same is not achieved on the nexus one and android phones? i assume its down to drivers, but seems silly that android wouldnt be similar...anyone have insight with this?

Minus the x,y axis touch screen limitation my n1 is pretty smooth all around, what sort of differences do you see ?

disgustip8ted said:
Minus the x,y axis touch screen limitation my n1 is pretty smooth all around, what sort of differences do you see ?
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Don't get me wrong, my nexus one is smooth as butter in 95% of all areas. Home screen scrolling and transitions easily must be hitting 50fps. But certain websites like engadget or this forum can skip a tad. Throw those same sites on new windows phone and It's smooth as butter.
I just wonder how this is possible with the same chip set, especially considering how our adreno is supposedly not the best.

do you have the "enable plug-ins" setting in the browser set to "on demand"?
i have mine like this and xda loads pretty quick, ondemand just lets you tap on a flash item when you want it to be rendered.

Yes on demand has been set for many months. I'm not talking about load speed, but scrolling smoothness once loaded. There are minor examples else where in the OS. But in general I'm wondering about drivers between the 2 platforms. You'd prob have to use a phone to see.

ill check out my friend's wp7 tomorrow at work. i cant get my phone to be choppy on this thread or the main thread or the gigglebread thread zoomed in or fully zoomed out :\

Probably cuz the browser on WP7 is based off the best internet browser EVER. Duh!
</sarcasm>
But seriously, it's a different OS, and the browser is different than ours. My wife had an HTC Surround for about a month (returned it cuz of lack of apps right now), and I will say, it was a pretty nice phone. Maybe after a few updates it'll be something to look into again, but right now, it's at the beginning of it's life, so there's a lot missing in my opinion.

It's all about code optimization, proper drivers, hardware accelerated graphics...
since android must run on many devices with many different cpus they can't optimize everything for the snapdragon, as they've done with WP7.

elmerendeiro said:
It's all about code optimization, proper drivers, hardware accelerated graphics...
since android must run on many devices with many different cpus they can't optimize everything for the snapdragon, as they've done with WP7.
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that's kinda the direction i was going. i wonder if this is something that qualcomm perhaps helps microsoft with providing optimized drivers, or they were paid to do so. it just shows how the snapdragon and adreno are pretty powerful but get a lot of negative talk around the community for it's graphics capability.
seeing as it was goog;e's first and initial phone, its too bad they did not attempt the similar performance optimizations. i mean each individual phone needs device specific drivers anyway, so its too bad they didnt take it to that next level.

Someone on Slashdot linked to a very interesting article relating to this problem.
Google "The Care and Feeding of the Android GPU"
(Note: This has probably been posted on the forums before, but it seemed worth adding to the current conversation)
EDIT: Wow. Terrible grammar. Wish I could blame Swype, but I'm pretty sure I'm just a moron lol.

inconceeeivable said:
Someone on Slashdot linked to a very interested article relating to this problem.
Google "The Care and Feeding of the Android GPU"
(Note: This has probably been posted on the forums before, but it seemed worth adding to the current conversation)
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actually this totally answers my question. thanks. reading that slashdot article, there are some great comments at the bottom, one with a link to anandtech article about WP7 and GPU's etc. also a former google employee commented on the topic.
so basically yes MS very tightly controls things and wanted it that way. android has to code for common devices across many manufacturers etc.
one interesting thing the anandtech article says that WP7 is capped at 30 FPS by microsoft due to battery concerns. some dev's complained. remember the EVO had that cap, and it sucks because of it. but playing with WP7 devices i didnt notice it a bit. strange.

and the real answer as others have said in the past is lack of UI hardward acceleration. interesting topci on google bug tracker explains it all. but 3.0 seems to fix it!
http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=6914

Simple, there is no hardware acceleration in the UI. Only apps that are programmed to use the GPU will use it.

Android needs a virtual machine, W7 doesn't, it runs native on the hardware. Full native support.

holy crap, i just watched a video of android which DOES have full graphics hardware acceleration thru the enture UI, and nearly crapped my pants. talk about iphone-like smoothness...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpH3oX9RhIE

Screen dust?

Ive noticed i have a small fleck of dust (which i find very very irritating). Anyone else got similar? Its most likely a dust flake between the digitizer and the screen as it moves relative to the image underneath. Sure it wasnt there when i bought it.

I've had mine since November and there is no dust under my screen unlike my iPhone 3G that I cleaned only a couple of months ago!

In the daylight i can see its a very white fleck under the digitiser. Very disappointed with this tab so far, slow, buggy and badly built. Such a shame as i love my Galaxy S2.

rovex said:
In the daylight i can see its a very white fleck under the digitiser. Very disappointed with this tab so far, slow, buggy and badly built. Such a shame as i love my Galaxy S2.
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Half the stuff i've seen you moan about I do not have any issue with at all.
I would suggest you stick to your phone or just go buy an ipad as nothing will keep you satisfied.
No doubt you would have lot's to moan about with them as well.
My brother has 2 ipads and I still prefer my Tab 8.9 over them.
I'm running stock with Go Launcher and no problems here from my side. It runs as I would expect it too and it is an addition to my phone and pc, not a replacement of either.

Hate to say it, but choccy31 is right. You make 8.9 appear a lot worse than it is. It's not slow or buggy, with the latest CM9 ICS it's smooth enough and without problems. It's not badly built, you having dust under the screen does not mean we all have it. If you don't like it, you can always sell it, why keep it when everything is wrong with it?

choccy31 said:
Half the stuff i've seen you moan about I do not have any issue with at all.
I would suggest you stick to your phone or just go buy an ipad as nothing will keep you satisfied.
No doubt you would have lot's to moan about with them as well.
My brother has 2 ipads and I still prefer my Tab 8.9 over them.
I'm running stock with Go Launcher and no problems here from my side. It runs as I would expect it too and it is an addition to my phone and pc, not a replacement of either.
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I'm glad someone else agrees..
Sent from my Incredible 2 using xda premium

Im sooo sorry i have upset you all, but the thing is rubbish. Its the worst Android device i have used by some way and ive used a lot. Im not the only one complaining about its speed it IS slow, fact there is no debate. Poor video that surprised me even knowing the Tegra limitations. Micro-stutter, lag, jerking. Maybe ill put up some comparison videos between the tab and the S2 and you will see what i mean. If it was cheap it wouldnt be so bad, but Sammy wanted £400 for this?? glad i didnt pay that.
I wont be getting an 'iPad' because its Apple and automatically fails, but i may well sell this on, swallow the loss and get something better. I should have gone with the Zoom, which is getting good support and is much smoother.

So go and sell it already. I dunno what Tab meets your requirements though, I guess the Transformer Prime is probably the closest you can get to the iPad in build and performance. Can't really think of any others that perform particularly better than this one, or that I can guarantee won't get dust (oh sh-------ttttt!!!!) under the screen.
its Apple and automatically fails
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Credibility = gone.

Why credibility gone? I hate the look of iOS which i think is very dull and I find Apple a horrible company. I buy Samsung to support free trade and as a protest to the way apple thinks it can limit choice by suing everyone over idiotic patents it should never have been granted.
The TF prime is better, but its not about raw power, its about optimization. There is no reason this tab needs to be so slow when the xoom isnt or even the Advent Vega!
Im going to wait for a real ICS ROM and see, by that time i may have got over the dust disappointment, but if it doesnt speed up its going.
You seem to think im asking to much for a tab to be able to actually function without stuttering, well i dont think i am. Im used to the slight Android stutter, but this is WAY beyond that. If i drag my finger slowly from screen to screen its smooth until it gets to about 40% of the way across, at which point it starts to stutter, however slowly i swipe. My S2 doesnt do that, even my Desire didnt, even my friends Wildfire doesnt and that has a 600mhz single core CPU.

rovex said:
Why credibility gone? I hate the look of iOS which i think is very dull and I find Apple a horrible company. I buy Samsung to support free trade and as a protest to the way apple thinks it can limit choice by suing everyone over idiotic patents it should never have been granted.
The TF prime is better, but its not about raw power, its about optimization. There is no reason this tab needs to be so slow when the xoom isnt or even the Advent Vega!
Im going to wait for a real ICS ROM and see, by that time i may have got over the dust disappointment, but if it doesnt speed up its going.
You seem to think im asking to much for a tab to be able to actually function without stuttering, well i dont think i am. Im used to the slight Android stutter, but this is WAY beyond that. If i drag my finger slowly from screen to screen its smooth until it gets to about 40% of the way across, at which point it starts to stutter, however slowly i swipe. My S2 doesnt do that, even my Desire didnt, even my friends Wildfire doesnt and that has a 600mhz single core CPU.
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Your Desire didn't? Hmm....as for being markedly worse than the Xoom with TW removed to make the OS more equivalent the performance is the same.
In any case it's hardly fair to compare the 8.9 to the S2 when the latter runs at a lower sub-HD resolution and isn't capable of displaying multiple large widgets. The 8.9 is quite up to HD video play back but then how is that worse than the S2?
I don't think anyone is saying that it's too much to ask for it to function without stuttering but it seems most, including myself, do not see the level of problems you appear to see. The example you give of stuttering at 40% swipe, I really don't see my home screens pause for fractions of a second as I swipe between them; it continues to move smoothly all the way in line with my finger movement.

Its smooth without widgets, but not with them. The more i use, the slower it gets. My S2 is running 6 full screen scrollable widgets, its has no slow down whatsoever. Sure WVGA makes life easier, but the Galaxy note is also smooth with ICS, that is HD and has the same CPU (in most markets). Tablet widgets are no bigger than phone ones., and even if they were the Tab struggles with the same ones my S2 has no issues with, even if they are smaller!
Ive given up using widgets now and it makes the device much nicer to use, but it seems like a waste of the larger screen.
For what its worth i have no issues with gaming.
The Note and S2 will both decode full rate 1080P blu-ray files, the tegra struggles with heavily reduced rate 720P. I have a copy of 'Drive' in 720P on my Laptop, S2 and Tab, the tab stutters and pauses, the others are smooth as silk.

You seem to be forgetting that the CPU and GPU in SGS 2 are more powerful than the Tegra 2 solution. Include also that more powerful device is running on a lower resolution screen, add the a lot more optimized ICS version for SGS 2, and you can clearly see the end result.
Is 8.9 perfectly smooth at this point? No, maybe it will never be, even with official ICS. I doubt we will see the improvement with buggy TouchWiz slapped on it, but at least devs will get some good stuff from it, like camera drivers and kernel. You can just hope for the best, or sell the tablet and purchase another more powerful model, something with Tegra 3 perhaps. We all know what's wrong with this model, we don't need someone to point it out.
High profile 720p and 1080p are just not doable on Tegra 2 solutions, it was like that from the start, there is nothing we can do to make it play nice without stuttering. I do get a decent framerate with DicePlayer on 1.4 GHz with some 720p movies, but not for long, on certain scenes it just becomes choppy. It's choppiest when you start the movie, but if you leave that tablet like that, and not swipe around, it gets better and better, only to be choppy again when more demanding scene comes up.
It is a shame, great screen going to waste, but if i sell it now, i don't know what tablet i would get to replace it. Transformer Prime is not cheap, i would need to add more money to get it, but i just love the form factor on this one. It's a difficult decision, and when the Tegra 3 tablets get their prices slashed, this thing will be even harder to sell.

Im not forgetting anything. My point is that if Tegra is so bad, it should never have been used in a top end device. I only paid £279 for mine, but if i paid the full £399 launch price i would be very upset.
The TF Prime still uses Tegra, the '3' isnt much better, as far as i can see its still broken, they are just throwing more broken cores at the problem in an attempt to fix it.
Its acceptable for now, but i still dont see why it should stutter with hardware acceleration enabled.

rovex said:
Its smooth without widgets, but not with them. The more i use, the slower it gets. My S2 is running 6 full screen scrollable widgets, its has no slow down whatsoever. Sure WVGA makes life easier, but the Galaxy note is also smooth with ICS, that is HD and has the same CPU (in most markets). Tablet widgets are no bigger than phone ones., and even if they were the Tab struggles with the same ones my S2 has no issues with, even if they are smaller!
Ive given up using widgets now and it makes the device much nicer to use, but it seems like a waste of the larger screen.
For what its worth i have no issues with gaming.
The Note and S2 will both decode full rate 1080P blu-ray files, the tegra struggles with heavily reduced rate 720P. I have a copy of 'Drive' in 720P on my Laptop, S2 and Tab, the tab stutters and pauses, the others are smooth as silk.
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Widgets are the same size? 1 full screen widget on the 8.9 carries over twice as much information as 1 full screen widget on the S2.
How does Dual-core 1.4 GHz ARM Cortex-A9 in the Note equate to Dual-core 1GHz Cortex-A9 in the 8.9?
As for decoding, I would say that the almost double resolution on the 8.9 vs the S2 is a factor aside from CPU difference.
You say the Note is fine and is that from your own experience?

rovex said:
Why credibility gone? I hate the look of iOS which i think is very dull and I find Apple a horrible company. I buy Samsung to support free trade and as a protest to the way apple thinks it can limit choice by suing everyone over idiotic patents it should never have been granted.
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Because it means you aren't judging something objectively... Samsung have been attempting these crazy law suits too, and they did get their name in the smartphone/tablet market by being as close to Apple as possible... TouchWiz for Android 2 is basically Android hacked to look and act more like iOS and the phones up until S2 were all designed to look like iPhone alternatives (look how the Galaxy S is the iPhone 3GS and then the Galaxy Ace is the iPhone 4...), and the people who design the devices and the legal departments are completely unrelated, it's not like each company is some dude who makes every decision.
rovex said:
or even the Advent Vega!
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I had an Advent Vega... Doesn't even begin to compare to this thing... Was fun for modding but to actually use it was a POS... I mean come on, if you're into modding you can put an unfinished homebrew HoneyComb/ICS on it which doesn't support the camera (lol, the nasty VGA thing) or if not you can run the ridiculous stock ROM with inch-thick navigation bar... The accelerometer doesn't even work right. I think I can put up with choppy homescreen transitions...
You seem to think im asking to much for a tab to be able to actually function without stuttering, well i dont think i am.
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Not at all, we just can't understand why you don't rid yourself of it and get something else if it makes you so mad. We want you to be happy with whatever device you get but at the same time we don't want to be shouted about at how crappy stuff that we like supposedly is.
Im used to the slight Android stutter, but this is WAY beyond that. If i drag my finger slowly from screen to screen its smooth until it gets to about 40% of the way across, at which point it starts to stutter, however slowly i swipe.
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Ah yes, I know what you mean. The homescreens move with my finger but they do lose framerate. Never been important to me as homescreens are, erm, they're just to get you into the apps, and you only swipe between them when you want to see your other widgets/icons, it's not like a frequent thing. I find it stutters a LOT worse when using some live wallpapers, make sure you don't use one of them. A lot of the Honeycomb devices I've used do this though. There aren't many I've seen to run the homescreens smoothly without modding. I mean, for me, it's one of the best Android tablets I've used, the form factor, performance (for the size & weight), screen, etc. all come together really nicely. It's only the homescreen that doesn't seem smooth for me...
Have you tried overclocking? I've heard that can fix the issue. I read somewhere that the homescreens don't use hardware acceleration on this tab.
It's HoneyComb's silly 3D screens thing, the way swiping between them has that unnecessary 3D effect, I mean seriously, what is the practical use of that, it uses way more resources and also affects the intuitiveness of using a touch screen (when you keep things "flat", it creates the feeling of sliding something under your fingers, when the 3D comes in it separates it and feels more like minority report 'gestures'), it seems to be pointless showing off and causes a lot of the stuttering on Android tabs.
Also, have you considered giving the Galaxy Tab 10.1 a try? I've read that it runs better and is more compatible. For me no tabs compare to the Samsung ones in design, weight, etc., the performance isn't perfect but it's the kind of sacrifice you make to get something impossibly thin and light.
My S2 doesnt do that, even my Desire didnt, even my friends Wildfire doesnt and that has a 600mhz single core CPU.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah but these are all Android 2 devices which run at 800x480...

I never claimed to be objective, i despise Apple, and im very happy to say why. The galaxys look like an evolution of older Sammy phones and the Tabs look like large versions of them. They didnt copy Apple, call it 'convergent evolution' if you must. Apple are being patent trolls, they started it, the others need to finish it.
I love the look of the 8.9, its lovely, i just want the excessive stutter gone. homescreens are important to Android, its not just about the apps.
I know the Vega is rubbish, but it still manages to be smoother than the Tab.. Thats really sad.
Lower res phones should be smoother yes, but the Galaxy Note is smoother as well, that has the same res. The Xoom is smoother, in fact the 8.9 is the worst T2 powered tab ive used. What i want is ICS with Apex launcher than is smooth and jitter free. A pause or 2 i can handle, but not the gritty jerky laggy mess it currently is. It makes it feel so cheap and low end.
As for the dust, i used a statically charged plastic rod, and managed to make the fleck 'jump' off screen, behind the bezel i guess. It may return but its gone or now.

rovex said:
I never claimed to be objective, i despise Apple, and im very happy to say why. The galaxys look like an evolution of older Sammy phones and the Tabs look like large versions of them. They didnt copy Apple, call it 'convergent evolution' if you must. Apple are being patent trolls, they started it, the others need to finish it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, it's not even worth getting into here, but it's still just a company, no need to take it personally, they all do these same things and our tablets wouldn't exist if iPad didn't, and wouldn't be half as great if they weren't competing with it.
homescreens are important to Android, its not just about the apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But why? What can you actually do on a homescreen?
I know the Vega is rubbish, but it still manages to be smoother than the Tab.. Thats really sad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, only if you mod the crap out of it, and I'm sure you can mod this tab to run better if you overclock it and use the right ROMs and stuff...
Lower res phones should be smoother yes, but the Galaxy Note is smoother as well, that has the same res.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And it's running Gingerbread.
The Xoom is smoother
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And bigger, and heavier.
As for the dust, i used a statically charged plastic rod, and managed to make the fleck 'jump' off screen, behind the bezel i guess. It may return but its gone or now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good idea! If it comes back you can just do it again. Great thinking though.

Android has widgets, iOS doesnt. iOS's interface is just a basic list of apps. Android has so much more, yes widgets are apps in a sense i suppose, but they are interactive. If their performance is very poor it ruins the experience. Most apps perform ok in themselves, but the homescreen is the face of the device and it must be smooth.
Yes the Vega must be modded to be smooth, but i standby what i said. A Stock Vega is better than a stock 8.9, and ive done everything i can to make this smooth (ROMs, kernels, overclocks, tweaks), its still slower than a modded Vega.
The Note has ICS now and it destroys the 8.9 with ICS builds. The 8.9 feels like a 500mhz single core unit next to a Note. The Note running GB previously doesnt explain why its faster, it should mean its slower!
The Xoom might be heavier but it has no 'performance enhancing' extras that the 8.9 doesnt have, in fact the 8.9 has faster RAM, or at least a better implemented memory subsystem. Its still manages to be slower.
I simply dont accept the answer 'Blame Honeycomb'. If ICS fixes the issues then i believe Samsung must have changed something else, some limitation or previous decision that was hindering the unit.

Tegra2 for whatever reason is a horrible CPU. I've used a few omap4 tablets and they just seem way smoother than tegra2. I mean a tegra 3 is finally smooth but nvidias cpus seem to be "on paper" good but real world bad each generation. Seem like they come out first with a spec set but poorly implemented once competitors are out. I mean the snapdragon s4 quad will probably destroy tegra 3

The S4 duals beat the T3!
I knew Tegra was old and slow, but i did think that maybe Samsung would have made the best of the bad CPU, it seems they have made the worst of it.

Superfluous Nexus 7 Review

Google Nexus 7
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Android phones first hit the scene in 2008 with the G1. Compared to the venerable Windows Mobile and Blackberry platforms, and the new iPhone, Android was primitive to say the least. Slowly, and steadily, Android has grown to a full-fledged operating system. In February, 2011, not even a year and a half ago, the first true Android tablet was released. It was the Motorola Xoom and was the first device to see the Android 3.0 "Honeycomb" operating system. Probably the best we can say about the original Xoom was that... it did the minimum that was expected of it. It had good specs- a dual core CPU, a gig of RAM, and a 720p screen. But, it was twitchy, laggy, and personally, I found it annoying. It was also thick, heavy, and amazingly, cost MORE than the Apple iPad. It was a recipe for disaster.
Let's fast forward to 2012. Honeycomb is gone. It was replaced with a streamlined OS called Ice Cream Sandwich. Suddenly, older tablets started screaming the way we all wanted. But, that's still not 2012. Today, we have Android 4.1 "Jelly Bean". Using the Ice Cream Sandwich underpinnings, everything has been further refined and optimized. Google had "Project Butter" specifically deal with making the OS as smooth and lag-free as possible. And they succeeded. Introduced first on the Google Nexus 7, our first look at Jelly Bean is impressive. It's as smooth as was promised and finally can go toe-to-toe with iOS... and come out ahead in many areas.
Google has had their own branded phones for years with varying degrees of success, and now they have their own tablet, the Nexus 7. Anything else you hear about this tablet falls secondary to this fact: This tablet was meant to beat the Amazon Kindle Fire. The Fire was the first true commercial success for any Android tablet. The problem was, it's barely recognizable as one. Most Google apps are gone or buried, there's no access to the Google Play app market, and the whole device is geared to get you to spend money at Amazon. Google makes no money on a platform like that, so enter the Nexus 7.
The Nexus 7 is thinner, lighter, and has a better screen. The Fire has no camera, has a weaker processor, and what's essentially a modified phone operating system. The Nexus beats it in about every measurable category.
Specifications:
DIMENSIONS
98.5 x 120 x 10.45 mm
340g
SCREEN
IPS LCD
1280x800 resolution
Multitouch
Corning scratch-resistant Glass
PROCESSOR
Quad Core Tegra 3- 4 cores @ 1.3Ghz, 1 low consumption core @ 500Mhz
NVidia GeForce 12-core GPU
MEMORY
1gb RAM
16gb internal (13.5gb useable)
CAMERA
1.2mp front-facing camera
PORTS
Headset
Micro USB
Battery
4325mAh
MISCELLANEOUS
Bluetooth 4.0
Stereo Speakers
GPS
WiFi 802.11 b, g, n, a
Accelerometer
The Nexus 7 is comfortable to hold and is light enough for extended reading in bed. The edges are rounded and the back has a rubber-like coating that makes for an easy grip. Remember- this is an Android e-reader first and all else secondary. The LCD screen is bright and has a good pixel density. Since e-reading is a primary function, I'll talk about that first. Like most Android devices, you get Play Books from Google. But, you can also get the Kindle and Nook apps as well, so you're not limited to one format. There's even other programs out there like Aldiko that are good for reading generic .pdf books, too. Turning the brightness down to about 75% gives a comfortable reading experience and the text is crisp in all the readers I've tried.
OK, here's some downsides. It's designed to compete with the Fire and doesn't really try to go that far beyond it. You have a choice of 8gb or 16gb. That's not much storage in todays world. I suppose they're really trying to push cloud storage, but you're not always near a wifi hotspot. Worse, there's no micro-SDXC slot to expand your storage. Also lacking is the HDMI port that Android users have come to expect. It's really great to plug your phone or tablet into a TV at a hotel and watch your own media. Not happening on the Nexus 7. For some inexplicable reason, Google forces the tablet into portrait display mode at all times unless some app calls for a landscape view. Yes, even video and picture viewing. The camera? Front facing, and no app to take a picture. It's usable by most video calling programs- Google, Skype, etc, but you can't snap a picture. Not a big deal, but it is odd. Lastly, when really putting the Tegra 3 throug it's paces, the back does get very warm. Not hot, but warm enough for you to tell it's getting a workout.
But the plusses... there are a lot. The device, manufactured for Google by Asus, feels very solid. No creaks or snaps, no flexing, it just feels solid. Integrated into the design is a smart cover feature- a magnet sensor that will shut off the screen when a "smart case" (that contains a small magnet at a strategic location) closes and turns it back on when the case opens. The video player is awkward in Portrait, so I don't use it. MX Player is fantastic and offers hardware and software acceleration. It plays all formats thrown at it. Anyway, video is crisp and without lag or stutter. Battery life is great. You'll average about 9+ hours and that should take you through a full days use and then some. The speakers are loud enough to hear without straining and the sound is decent for what it is. It sounds great through headphones. Gone is the old reliable Android Browser. Chrome is now the preferred web app. It's fast and integrates with your desktop settings, saved bookmarks, etc. Then, there's the wifi... I have NEVER seen reception this powerful on any device. I can go anywhere inside and stay connected... that's expected. What's more, I'm seeing strong signals I've never seen before. It's a little piece of terrific. And when tethered to my phone, gets the same great 4g speeds.
Jelly Bean- It's very much a matured OS. Beyond the silky-smoothness, there's some great new features... some came with Ice Cream Sandwich, some with Jelly Bean. Face unlock has been refined. Originally, you could trick it by putting a picture in front of the camera. Now, there's the option for it to withold unlocking until it tells that you blinked! Google's Voice Search has advanced a great deal. Google's had voice input and search since 2009, and it's never been bad, but with all the press and ad revenue Apple's Siri has received, Google knew they had to step up their game. Google's voice search now answers in a very human, non-computerized voice. And the answers are literally twice as fast as Siri's. When it doesn't have an exact answer, like when there's a range of answers, it doesn't ask you if you want to search... it just gives you the results. Navigator has been updated with the same natural voice, too. And speaking of that, Google Maps now allows you to cache a pretty large area for offline mapping. Being it's a wifi-only device, this is extra handy.
There's all sorts of throw-ins when you buy a Nexus 7. The biggest is $25 credit at the Google Play app market. In case you needed inspiration to gouge out your eyes and ears, they threw in a complimentary/punitive copy of Transformers: Dark of the Moon. I guess if you're traveling with kids and they act up, you could force them to watch it instead of something good. They also threw in 20 complete songs in a variety of styles. Some recognizeable, some new and kinda neat, and some quickly eraseable rap songs.
Benchmarks are great. The powerhouse CPU/GPU combination takes everything you throw at it in stride.
So, what am I going to do with this thing? I have no idea. It's fun, it's a great size, but it's not for someone who wants a complete tablet experience. The lack of storage alone sees to that. At best, it will be a secondary device, but unlike a full-on tablet, you're going to rely on a smart phone more when you carry the Nexus 7 around. I'll take it to work and see how it is for wiring diagrams and flowcharts, so stay tuned. I'm either going to give it to my folks or make it an extended loan. Mom's somewhat Android-savvy, having had 2 Android slider smart phones. Dad's completely technophobic, so I want to see how he likes things like the NFL and ESPN apps. Regardless, they're going on a cruise along with a flight to Europe and back, so this will certainly help matters.
So, it's a nice tablet in a great package. Not unlike the Apple ecosystem, if you're OK with the limitations of the environment, you'll have a great experience. If you want a fully expandable complete tablet experience, you might want to look at a Samsung Galaxy mini tablet instead. The Nexus 7 is priced at $199.99 for the 8gb version and $249.99 for the 16gb model. It's available at https://play.google.com/ and at retailers like GameStop, Sams Club, Staples, Office Max, and others. Availability is very limited now, but within a couple weeks everyone should be stocked up.

:good: Archer likes this!

Great review! I'm excited to get my hands on mine this week. I bought it primarily for reading as my retina iPad is a little too big for comfortable reading. I also got it for the development community that will certainly filling in the small holes that Google and ASUS surely left due to either cost or other reasons. Still, after a year with the Xoom and TPrime I have to say this is the first Android tablet I've actually been excited about. I grabbed the 8GB version as I won't be playing much games (I will use the iPad for that, plus I just don't play many games and I have my trusty 360 and new Vita for those purposes). It will be more of a simple web browser, twitter, small amounts of Google+, and more importantly, like I mentioned above, an eReader. I'm sure I will miss the storage space, but then again I didn't even use 6GBs on my Xoom or Prime especially since all my 40GB of music lives in the Google Music cloud. This will be my go to device for bringing to work and I can leave my very expensive and kind of irraplaceable retina iPad safely at home.
Thanks for the review!

Is that Babou???
Good review, thanks for being honest and not completely sided on it like some reviews have been.

"For some inexplicable reason, Google forces the tablet into portrait display mode at all times unless some app calls for a landscape view. Yes, even video and picture viewing."
Not true at all. If you're having problems rotating it, disable screen rotation lock from the notification menu. Just about everything will rotate at that point (not the stock launcher).

firehazard said:
"For some inexplicable reason, Google forces the tablet into portrait display mode at all times unless some app calls for a landscape view. Yes, even video and picture viewing."
Not true at all. If you're having problems rotating it, disable screen rotation lock from the notification menu. Just about everything will rotate at that point (not the stock launcher).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haaaa... that's terrific. Thanks.

:good: Wee baby Seamus likes this!

could you please run androbench and post the results here? want to know if this device suffers from IO problems like all other Asus tablets!

Good job with your review, I found it balanced and informative. It would be nice if you made a followup about general UI performance at some point. I know it's supposed to be rather speedy, but I have found mixed verdicts on the forums. It would also be nice if someone made a review from a dev's standpoint (maybe I will ), but overall excellent work!
---------- Post added at 04:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:28 PM ----------
Tempie007 said:
could you please run androbench and post the results here? want to know if this device suffers from IO problems like all other Asus tablets!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Based on the quadrant benchmark, it seems to suffer from some amount of I/O deficiency, which I have learned the hard way can be quite a headache. Nothing a custom rom wouldn't fix, but still worrying.

No one else bothered by the really low I/o score
nvm didn't refresh the thread lol

hanthesolo said:
Good job with your review, I found it balanced and informative. It would be nice if you made a followup about general UI performance at some point. I know it's supposed to be rather speedy, but I have found mixed verdicts on the forums. It would also be nice if someone made a review from a dev's standpoint (maybe I will ), but overall excellent work!
---------- Post added at 04:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:28 PM ----------
Based on the quadrant benchmark, it seems to suffer from some amount of I/O deficiency, which I have learned the hard way can be quite a headache. Nothing a custom rom wouldn't fix, but still worrying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the I/O is slow then there's only so much a rom can do. It's a hardware problem.
Sent from my LG-P999 using xda app-developers app

Yeah, of course I know that! I have had a lot if experience speeding up low-io devices, so I meant that it wouldn't be too hard for someone to patch things up to increase usability in a custom rom, assuming the I/O is not TOO shoddy.

Thanks for the positive feedback! I'll run some more tests, and give some impressions after a couple days use. After the first overnight leaving the battery at 25%, the battery meter seems to have calibrated and battery life has been great. For the first time in my Android experience, you can load a media-rich page (like the last one) and flick-scroll top to bottom and back with no lag, pause while loading times, or anything. It's very home PC-esque.
More to come.
And to all the other Archer fans here... DUH, and/or HELLO!!!

OK, well... no more to come, for awhile at least. I gave the N7 to my parents. It was a leap of faith that they'd be up for the concept of an Android tablet, especially since they're in their 70s... but Mom has a basic Android slider phone, has a Nook reader along with a PC and a really crappy netbook. So, after spending a couple hours with them, setting up their accounts, giving them a tour of the device, and walking them trough the different Google features... they're excited. Dad, who's terrified of computers, was even playing Angry Birds. They loved the new Jelly Bean voice search. So, I'll give some updates on how a pair of seniors are dealing with some cutting edge technology.
Me, I'm looking forward to what Google has next... I'd love a 10" full-featured tab with expandable memory, 1080p screen, and all the great tech the N7 has.

Nice review!
Another nice (and glowing) review is http://gdgt.com/asus/nexus/7/reviews/r22/

The Kindle Fire OS is as much a tablet version as JB for the Nexus 7. Both are essentially phone OS.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app

ijeff said:
The Kindle Fire OS is as much a tablet version as JB for the Nexus 7. Both are essentially phone OS.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't disagree more Much of the evolution of Jelly Bean came from Honeycomb, which was without question, a tablet OS. The Kindle Fire IS a phone OS. It's based upon Gingerbread. That was NEVER intended for tablets. Now, Android devices have a single upgrade path, and it's ICS/JB... but I simply can't see where you could refer to JB as a phone OS.

Tempie007 said:
could you please run androbench and post the results here? want to know if this device suffers from IO problems like all other Asus tablets!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, now that I have a Nexus 7 again... here you go:

Some follow-up notes after using the Nexus 7 (well, the 2nd Nexus 7) for a week.
1) The GPS locks pretty quickly, and although ridiculously huge, works great with Navigator and having internet tethered from my phone.
2) No glitches or defects in my current one or the one I gave my parents. Feeling pretty lucky all around with these gadgets.
3) The tablet fits quite well in the pocket of most cargo slacks.
4) Google's voice search is a blast to show to iPeople when they get all uppity over their beloved Siri. Snicker.
5) Early concerns over the lack of Flash are mostly eased. Many of the sites I use at work that formerly required Flash seem adapted to HTML5. And, they all work well with Chrome. I guess we can say Chrome is now a grown-up browser.
6) Grab the free game Dark Meadow: The Pact from the Play Store market. It really shows off the abilities of the Tegra 3. You're Welcome.
7) This tablet is taking more and more time away from my old (well, in technology terms anyway...) Acer A500 tablet. I never thought I would get so much use out of a 7" tablet. It's a pleasant surprise. I really appreciate how thin and light it is.

[Q]How can we Close Application in an Easier way?

Hi Forum, I hope this is the right forum to pose this question and to discuss the topic
ok the question:
Am I the only one who is bugged by the fact that, to close most applications in WP (wheter it is active or in background), we have to tap the "Back" button as many times as the number of pages? here are some pics so you can understand my point xD
http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/9092/31238975.png
http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/5176/30856883.png
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/4329/28248076.png
As you can see from the last 2 pics, in this case, the user has to click backwards at least 2 times in order to close the application.
Wouldn't it be better to have a small icon in order to close the application completly?
Something like:
http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/2318/50922462.png
So! What are your opinions?
Is there something like this already?
Do you think that a mod or something could help out with this "problem"?
Do you think WP8 has a feature/solution for this?
Or is it just something personal xD ?

There is no other way but there is also no need.
The background applications do not consume CPU like they do on android, and if memory is needed, the OS simply closes them down.

mcosmin222 said:
There is no other way but there is also no need.
The background applications do not consume CPU like they do on android, and if memory is needed, the OS simply closes them down.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well many, do still think that closing apps directly is better...
http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/6/3464142/wp8-fixes-multi-tasking

Taurenking said:
Well many, do still think that closing apps directly is better...
http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/6/3464142/wp8-fixes-multi-tasking
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So it would seem and though they are thinking about the whole thing wrong this mind set cant be ignored even if it is wrong. A lot of people come from the Android ios world of background tasks killing battery life and performance.
Maybe if they have a close app in the tiles screen to address these concerns. Even if you know something is not needed if the customer thinks (even wrongly) that it is then you are going to look like your product is not as good even though you know as an expert that it is. I get this all the time in my job and that's why I use the mother test, I send an idea to my mother and if she gets it then I know its good if not I rework it.

Idk about IOS but in android it is a mistake to close down applications in most cases.
In fact, many people don't know that pressing the close button does not actually close the app, but move it to cached processes. You then have to kill it again in there to finish the job.
Anyway, many apps are persistent in android. Killing them will only make the system want to restore them again, thus eating more CPU than they would have if they were running.
On the other hand, they do represent a resource hug when not closed.
SO on this aspect, android does have a big problem with its multitasking and this is the main reason why android is such a resource hog, and requires quad core CPUs and loads of RAM to get the job done right. And google isn't doing much about this, in fact they continue with the resource waist, which will inevitably put a cap on how much android can do.
As for Windows Phone, it is fairly easy to restore the application to its stage before closing it down. People just don't know about that (and neither most of the developers).

Android phone and WP7 phone have almost same battery life, however, android has true multitasking but not in WP7, which means WP7 actually comsume more power. From my point of view, if I want to close an app, I don't want to see it appear in the backgroud. This give the chance to run it unexpectedly if I accidently tap it in multitask screen

The battery life is a non-issue with multitasking.
It doesn't matter how many apps are running, the CPU uses the same amount of power.
On the other hand, android is much slower than windows phone, which is because the android multitasking is a resource hog that is not really needed.
Remember we are on phones after all, not super computer.

If there is not much to do CPUs clock down or go to sleep completely for some time therefore reducing power consumption. On Multi-Cores in low utilization cores are sometimes completely powered down. So if only one program is running and it's not a game needing the CPUs full power it's highly likely that the CPU will use much less power.
If instead I have several Apps running in the background then I have a higher CPU utilization that doesn't really help me with what I'm currently doing (with the foreground app). That is why background Apps are frozen on iOS and WP unless they do something specifically allowed (so nothing happens in the background that's not really necessary).

mcosmin222 said:
On the other hand, android is much slower than windows phone, which is because the android multitasking is a resource hog that is not really needed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One could argue your point. I'll agree that WP7 runs great with low spec phones, but the new Android devices are simply faster. Compared to my mom's SGIII, my Arrive is painfully slow at loading apps and websites. Also, the SGIII lasts considerably longer than my Arrive, which shows that poor battery life on android devices are a thing of the past*.
Dont get me wrong, I want the WP platform to succeed(I think its a great OS), but it still has a long way to go; and limiting the max spec of WP8 to barely beyond current generation tech really sets the bar low.
*yes, I'm aware of the SGIII's battery size. Still, I can easily get two days out of it, vs my Arrive lasting 1-1.5 days

StevieBallz said:
If there is not much to do CPUs clock down or go to sleep completely for some time therefore reducing power consumption. On Multi-Cores in low utilization cores are sometimes completely powered down. So if only one program is running and it's not a game needing the CPUs full power it's highly likely that the CPU will use much less power.
If instead I have several Apps running in the background then I have a higher CPU utilization that doesn't really help me with what I'm currently doing (with the foreground app). That is why background Apps are frozen on iOS and WP unless they do something specifically allowed (so nothing happens in the background that's not really necessary).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The core clock is a non-issue on android.
You will never be able to stop all applications, some of them (most of them) return minutes latter, because the OS is programmed to restore them. Many poorly programed applications behave like system applications and they keep running all the time.Standards are pretty low in Android. Which is why things like app closers, scheduled task managers and other stuff like that exist.
One could argue your point. I'll agree that WP7 runs great with low spec phones, but the new Android devices are simply faster. Compared to my mom's SGIII, my Arrive is painfully slow at loading apps and websites. Also, the SGIII lasts considerably longer than my Arrive, which shows that poor battery life on android devices are a thing of the past*.
Dont get me wrong, I want the WP platform to succeed(I think its a great OS), but it still has a long way to go; and limiting the max spec of WP8 to barely beyond current generation tech really sets the bar low.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Compare the specs of the new android phones. Compare their prices as well.
SGIII literally has 4 times the processing power of the highest end WP7.5 devices currently on the market, and performance is comparable between the two. WP is an awesome platform. Android is not even close.

mcosmin222 said:
Compare the specs of the new android phones. Compare their prices as well.
SGIII literally has 4 times the processing power of the highest end WP7.5 devices currently on the market, and performance is comparable between the two. WP is an awesome platform. Android is not even close.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The US spec SGIII uses the Krait processor, not the quad core. While it would be comparing apples to oranges, in a sense, I still stand by my case: with the proper hardware, the Android platform can be just as effective.
My stance stems from the arguement that WP7 is a better OS because it runs very well on basic hardware. This claim drove me nuts because M$ was so bent on proving that point, that flagship devices ran on half the hardware Android phones of that generation were currently utilizing.
Comparatively, it's the difference between running XP and Vista on legacy hardware vs current hardware.. People were knocking Vista because it was a resource hog and ran like crap on most computers; on the other hand, it runs better than XP machines when kitted out with newer hardware. One OS runs very well on less specs, but plateus very quickly, where the other platform requires more resources, but scales better when properly complemented.
In essence, WP7 is XP
I hope you arent portraying me as an Android fanboy, because I'm not; I'm just being brutally honest here. I really want to see WP8 succeed where WP7 fell flat, but seeing MS fitting compatibility specs of WP8 devices with fairly short outlook leaves me feeling uneasy.
BTW: I've been using Microsoft PDA's and smartphones since 2004, and have used both android and iOS devices for about six months out of those eight years. Juust so you know where I come from =)

Actually the OS does quite often not have that much influence on actual application performance. The big criticism of Android has always been that it tended to perform crappy (force closes, stutters) even on high end hardware. Some of that has to do with process priorization, some with missing hardware acceleration, etc. Google is working on that with every new release.
Especially in games one noticed that the devices lacked in real power on the hardware side. Another problematic decission was the use of the panorama controls. Those are side-scrolling controls with very often vertical endless scrollers inside them. This is actually rather complex to render and I would guess is responsible for most of the badly performing apps around. This is further complicated by the fact that non-developers rarely can grasp intuitively the actual computational cost associated with certain visuals (hence the often cited: WPs minimalist design is easier to compute then Android/iOSs more complex UI elements).
Microsoft was aiming at the possibility to produce cheaper devices. There were citations that the average WP7.5 device only cost $200 to produce. That strategy obviously didn't work out so well. Maybe due to the fact that the devices still were sold at flagship prices.

StevieBallz said:
Especially in games one noticed that the devices lacked in real power on the hardware side. Another problematic decission was the use of the panorama controls. Those are side-scrolling controls with very often vertical endless scrollers inside them. This is actually rather complex to render and I would guess is responsible for most of the badly performing apps around. This is further complicated by the fact that non-developers rarely can grasp intuitively the actual computational cost associated with certain visuals (hence the often cited: WPs minimalist design is easier to compute then Android/iOSs more complex UI elements).
Microsoft was aiming at the possibility to produce cheaper devices. There were citations that the average WP7.5 device only cost $200 to produce. That strategy obviously didn't work out so well. Maybe due to the fact that the devices still were sold at flagship prices.
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That'sbut back to the topic: the fact is that wheter it consumes cpu or not, the average user would like it to be easier to "kill" an application without pressing the "GoBack" button multiple times. That's the main argument. Leave all the CPU, and Core Processor argument behind , cuz WP os deals beautifully with this...