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grrr
what a **** workaround!
that was their response... a **** workaorund that degrades my service..
anyone else had this or any thoughts on it?
Don't switch to GSM, switch to AT&T!
I am not a fan-boy for any of the carriers, but I must say that over the years I have gotten excellent service from ATT - except for when they changed to Cingular, which was a collection of regional companies with regional problems and inability to service - IMHO - a truly mobile client (like I live on the East Coast, but kept a west coast cell number - Cingular couldn't understand or deal with that one)...and the coverage is now better than Verizon's (not to mention the phones and the fact that you can do high-speed data and a call at the same time).
Did T-Mob start pro-rating their release contracts yet?
Don't know.
Am in the uk so cannot get at and t..
boo!
yep, get the same issues, whereabouts are you? im in rainham, and have to turn off the 3g to get reliable incoming calls and make calls, dont have to go too far and it works ok!
romford / ilford seem to be ok with 3g switched on.
I'm in Ilford and when set to Auto band miss calls intermittently so can't use that setting reliably. I wondered if there was a way to set the phone to use only 3G so it doesn't keep trying to switch between 3G and GPRS?
I'm from Indonesia and discovered that sometimes when my network switches me to 3G automatically, I can't receive or make voice calls.
So, I went to phone -> menu -> options -> band -> select network type to GSM istead of AUTO or WCDMA
Unfortunately, I left the 3G coverage area before I had a chance to see if it made any difference
fil said:
yep, get the same issues, whereabouts are you? im in rainham, and have to turn off the 3g to get reliable incoming calls and make calls, dont have to go too far and it works ok!
romford / ilford seem to be ok with 3g switched on.
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Click to collapse
Same here, in central London - have been ranting about this for some time over at Modaco eg here. Not a clear answer apart from perhaps swapping the handset but its hit and miss
Its a really severe problem and I'm losing the plot a little with it. Gutted.
BTW, if you need a way to quickly switch between the two modes, read http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=345524
There are about fifteen threads about this on here and on Modaco. Its a fact of life with 3g and HTC devices.
It is primarily down to relationship between the network cells and the device.
3G cells are notoriously unreliable and need a lot of maintenance - if you report a problem cell to your network, they may check it out - although they use their own testing to determine which cells need fixing.
Some devices do have weaker transceivers and hence the odd occasion where a device swap helps - but 99 times out of 100 its the network cell. And thus the reason that users find their device works fine on 3g in another location.
I was wondering why someone would want to be connected to 3G all the time for talking. I could only guess that it is somewhat better quality. In my case I don't see it that much. I do however know that it waistes about double the battery using 3G all the time. If I am not using data is there any real advantages of it? and what if I am talking to someone who does not have a 3G phone.
Thank you,
Hmm, of course I could be wrong (but I doubt it), Data and voice are 2 different things. 3G is data, voice is voice.
Thats what I was thinking, but I dont understand why it would be connected via 3G all the time if im not even using the data. and 3G and EDGE connections seems to have different signal strengths. If it's only for data I guess I will leave 3G off all the time.
3G signal is emitted on a different frequency than GSM/Edge signal - it does drain the battery faster and is pretty useless if you are in a well covered GSM area and only using voice (phone) function. The quality gain isn't significant enough overall to make it worth battery drainage on a device like the Kaiser/Tilt.
The advantage of 3G is its data stream but it's also good with voice for hard to reach areas only reached by 3G signals - those are rare nowadays, especially in the US, but in some cities with landscape blocked coverage (like in some skyscrapers in Manhattan for example) you might not pick any GSM network at your work desk but might pick up 3G - in such places, using "bandswitch" regularly makes sense.
Lastly, 3G signal is slowly replacing GSM/CDMA (2G) as the broadcasting standard so I wouldn't be surprised that in the next 5 years, more and more GSM phone operators will stop mantaining there GSM frequency towers in favor of 3G.
Thanks jonas that's the answer I was looking for. I will use edge untill my signal gets low.
Jonasteddybear said:
Lastly, 3G signal is slowly replacing GSM/CDMA (2G) as the broadcasting standard so I wouldn't be surprised that in the next 5 years, more and more GSM phone operators will stop mantaining there GSM frequency towers in favor of 3G.
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Interesting, since that means AT&T has a lot of work ahead of them and better get their butts in gear rolling out 3G. I live in the whatever-it-is, 90%, of the network area that does NOT have 3G.
Or I suppose I could be an optimist about what you say, and think that maybe it means AT&T really will be accelerating the rollout of 3G. That would be nice given the snail's pace of 3G expansion in the past couple of years.
Over in the UK 3G is the standard 2G is still available but the telecommunications offcom have required all UK operators to offer a minimum of 90% 3G coverage by 2010
I've always heard that Voice on 3G uses less power on standby and when talking, but I might be remembering it wrong.
Data on 3G uses significantly more juice than EDGE does (over double in my experience!) but I don't think you'll see a significant difference without data usage on 3G vs GSM but I could certainly be wrong.
I always have FlexMail and IM+ running, I haven't compared battery usage without them yet.
One big advantage that 3G has over EDGE is you can do voice and data at the same time. I've heard varying stories about some phones can do it on EDGE and some can't, but I know on my Tilt my connections die when I'm on a voice call and reconnect after but does not on 3G.
The biggest advantage of 3g besides the penetration is that you can talk and maintain a data connection. Edge gives you one or the other at a time--data or talk.
As far as making and receiving phone calls, do you use 3g? Any phone I've ever seen that uses 3g absolutely sucks. My dad's phone, my mom's phone, my girlfriend's phone, my phone. What happens is the call either doesn't go through. If you listen to the dial tone it has a small click right before each tone, if I hear that, it mean's the call isn't going through.
My mom and girlfriend have gone through replacements on their phone, but the 3g still sucks. I've even noticed they don't get that great of reception.
Even on my Tilt, if I switch to 3G i only have 2 bars and apparently people have complained of calling me but I never received the call. Now with Edge, I have full bars, and no one ever complains about the call not going through.
So what's your guy's take on 3g?
Similar to what you've experienced. I generally leave mine turned off the majority of the time, since I have the WiFi running when I'm at home anyway. I turn it on only when I need to browse the web or something when I'm out and about.
Not to mention the immense battery drain that 3G demands. My battery life is dramatically better on Edge as opposed to 3G.
Your provider needs to update/fix their network. This is not a device issue, it's a network issue. Proper 3G (well, 3.5G / HSPA, not just UMTS per se) should also use less power than GSM / EDGE for transfers... (in watt/kbps, though)
I know for a fact that all devices in my signature (that support 3G) can work perfectly with 3G on a proper network.
Chainfire said:
Your provider needs to update/fix their network. This is not a device issue, it's a network issue. Proper 3G (well, 3.5G / HSPA, not just UMTS per se) should also use less power than GSM / EDGE for transfers... (in watt/kbps, though)
I know for a fact that all devices in my signature (that support 3G), plus the Touch HD, Omnia and i780 can work perfectly with 3G on a proper network.
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I don't experience network issues as bad as the OP seems to have, but I've always had terrible battery life on my Tilt and my iPhone, my two most recent 3G devices. My 8525 was actually very good on the battery with 3G running all day long, never had a problem getting through the day.
Maybe the intermittent GPS usage on the latter two? I don't know.
Chainfire said:
Your provider needs to update/fix their network. This is not a device issue, it's a network issue. Proper 3G (well, 3.5G / HSPA, not just UMTS per se) should also use less power than GSM / EDGE for transfers... (in watt/kbps, though)
I know for a fact that all devices in my signature (that support 3G) can work perfectly with 3G on a proper network.
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I should go in and ask them about it, just to see what they say. Ask them why the new and greatest 3g is worse than edge. I have AT&T, I live in Washington, and I live right by a Cell tower too (only a 2 or 3 blocks away from it).
I woudln't mind using it for data but the fees here are prohibitive for private use. We use it on our work phones for data and it works well on Telstra.
mikeeey said:
I should go in and ask them about it, just to see what they say. Ask them why the new and greatest 3g is worse than edge. I have AT&T, I live in Washington, and I live right by a Cell tower too (only a 2 or 3 blocks away from it).
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They'll probably say it ain't so Thing is, when 3G first got rolled out here, we had much the same issues. The big providers here spent some $$$ to replace "faulty" hardware at the towers, and voila, the problem disappeared (2 years ago?). Seems many 3G networks around the world have similar issues to the ones you described in the opening post. I have a sneaking suspicion that one of the 3G cell-tower hardware manufacturers - probably the cheapest and hence most used - makes some really crappy equipment. I could almost imagine that manufacturer is Qualcomm
In all seriousness though, all I know for sure is we had these issues here too, and they fixed them by fixing the towers. (Though of course there is some difference between different devices and how well they do 3G)
From talking to some guys at work Telstra's 3G network has been pretty much flawless for them asides from cost issues associated with Telstra.
I live in indonesia and never have any problem with 3G,. , the only problem is, its expensive,. lol,.
I am in NZ
No problems with 3G whatsoever. Have Imate JasJar - loving every second of it.
New Jersey, USA
3G has always seem pretty good around here in New Jersey with AT&T, but I'm 25 minutes from New York, so imagine how many towers they have on the tri-state area (New York, New Jersey and Connecticut). Very rare to lose 3G reception (exept on the iPhone 3G that everybody complains about losing it often). But important to mention also is that Kearny, town where my sister lives, I lose reception a 100%, my phone's reception just dies, and when I switch it to GSM instead of 3G...voila. Full signal strenght.
wow.. the results turned out quite different than I imagined.
Obviously it's just in my area that 3G sucks. I really wish they would fix this, considering that every phone released now is 3G...and you think someone would notice... well, I'm sure if I wait long enough people will start to notice, but who knows,
I can't remember the last time I had problems with 3G. though I remember before Cingular got bought by AT&T and they were just rolling out there 3G, I used to have problems then, I guess it was due to them configuring/re-configuring the towers. I think the engineers were just going by what the manual said, which weren't the best settings for each area.
I'm on 3G all day everyday on the hour and it's good. even when I'm in the basement and have 1 bar I still receive all my calls and I can make calls. though on this 1 bar I sometimes have to repeat myself every 1.5 minute, but I don't complain about that because it's 1 bar and I'm in the basement. at my friend's apartment I'm the only one that get signal, nothing else work there, not T-Mobile, not sprint, not verizon, not alltel, not vergin nothing else only AT&T works and I get 3 bars of 3G there. I always laugh because he has to leave his phone by the window and use his blue tooth.
I honestly don't think you're by a 3G tower because you should be getting way more than 3 bars. also ask them about the issue you're having AT&T is a good company they will listen to you. call them and open a ticket (before this they will have you go through the basic steps, restarting by removing the battery, etc) tell them you've done that multiple times and yet you have the same issue so it must be a network issue. have them escalate the ticket (they will send an engineer out and he/she will call you, they will work on the towers around your area). don't forget to be polite, no one likes a hot head.
in roughly mid year last year I was only getting edge at my job even though it is a 3G area. at home inside my house had full bars, so I called them up and they worked with me. the engineer stayed in my area roughly 2 weeks to deal with the issue. after that I've had 2 bars of 3G in doors at my job.
So we just got 3G here this week, but when I am on the 3g network, my cell triangulation doesn't work. can someone with 3G in their city confirm that it is working for them so I can stop worrying about it?
Thx
NC?
How does one know if triangulation is working exactly, ha
SLC utah
make sure your GPS is off then open Google Maps and hit menu - My Location.
I go to lunch in a few and will test. Raleigh NC just turned 3G this week as well.
Confirmed: same issue... can not find my location, where edge can (did not cut off 3g, basing that off of 1 year of using maps up till this week when i got 3g in my city).
Anyone have thoughts on this?
For that matter.... why do i not have 3g in buildings/homes? I only have 3g when outside.
Worked on edge.
In phone status it shows my network as UTMS, not 3G (used to say Edge).
I guess this in normal?
Think about how "triangulation" works (improper name, really):
Along one of the low-bandwidth data channels (along with network time, network name, etc.) are a few small numbers: your MCC and MNC (describe which network: 310/410 for att usa, 310/260 for tmo usa. Those are compared against the return from AT+COPS (or actually a little database if you see "T-Mobile" or "AT&T", compared with "Voicestream Wire", "Cingular", "ATT0", or often just "") to get your network.
Those are then combined with two more numbers, the LAC and CID. The Location Area Code is unique to a region on a network (pretty wide range), and the CID is unique per tower. There is no lookup (similar to COPS) that provides a location from a given cid. This means that you have to look up the LAC/CID against a database (MCC/MNC sometimes speed up searching/possibly sort out duplicates - idk). There are a few of these databases available - there's one free one which I'm thinking about, google probably keeps one (they keep a wifi database too), microsoft probably keeps one, etc. AFAIK, there's no unified database... please correct me if I'm wrong. However, the networks do provide their tower lists to big-name lists.
One last thing to think about - the companies will always try to sell you on the idea that they use multiple towers and find the area their coverage overlaps, or that they use "the unique footprint of a tower"... basically, they put your rough location as the complete coverage area of the tower to which you are currently registered. Actually, they don't really calculate it well - it's just a circle around the tower. What google means by this second claim (the footprints one) is that some of the circles are different sizes, depending on whether the cell is full power, low power, etc. This is especially provable in my bedroom - I have access at full signal to two 3g towers (I love this area ), that seem to overlap right here. This means that, when I use google maps, or another similar program, the circles constantly move between the two. It also means that I get spammed with unsolicited +CREG's on my modem line, as it moves around .
Combining all this knowledge, I know exactly what's wrong. #1: the lac/cid on the EDGE tower elements is different than the 3g towers (makes sense, for signal range calculations), #2: google knows about the LAC/CID on the EDGE towers, and #3: google doesn't yet have the new 3g towers' LAC/CID information in their database. Therefore, the program is passed information it doesn't know about, so it simply returns an error.
Proposed solution: wait a week or two
ADDITION: You don't have 3g in houses because the 3g signal does not penetrate as well (It's on a higher frequency, and the signal drops after less interference than edge). Since these are new towers, they may also be running at reduced power.
I'm in SLC as well, and can also confirm wierdness with the non-GPS location over the first couple of weeks... including one day where my phone absolutely insisted that I was just outside of San Diego. Quite mean of my phone to tease me like that considering that I was in West Valley City at the time. It seems to be getting better as time goes on.
^^ wow, I can feel the authority. Thanks for a great post. I think you are correct, the 3G seems to be getting better coverage (sometimes getting it in my house now). I trust t-mo and google, thank you man.
I don't know EDGE technology (never delved into it), but I seriously doubt poly's claim that it uses a different frequency than 3G. If you're using a USA spec G1, then your tphone has a single radio for t-mobile's 1900 MHz band.
The issues you are noticing with 3G coverage are more likely due to SIR parameter set by the deployment engineers (i.e. they are telling the 3G cell to only 'talk' to your phone if the signal is strong).
This is just a guess, though. There could be any number of issues going on, like some misconfigured settings on the RNC's for your sector (which makes sense if the coverage is new).
UMTS is the 3G technology that T-mobile (and AT&T) use, so that is normal.
Tarzanman said:
I don't know EDGE technology (never delved into it), but I seriously doubt poly's claim that it uses a different frequency than 3G. If you're using a USA spec G1, then your tphone has a single radio for t-mobile's 1900 MHz band.
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yeah, it's generally not too much of an issue - all the frequncies are pretty close (I think the 850mhz stuff from att might go a bit better than the old 1900, but it is pretty close). And, as I just discovered, tmo is entirely 1900mhz, so that part was mistaken. The rest should be accurate to the best of my knowledge (eg. EDGE can take more interference before it drops, etc.)
EDIT: Nope, their entire EDGE network is 1900mhz, but their 3g is only 1700/2100. So, it's a tossup, and that close makes not much of a difference.
So when I first got the phone I had zero connectivity issues. After about 2 weeks I started having very occasional problems with it taking awhile to re-connect to 4g going in and out of weak signal areas. Now my phone refuses to connect to a mobile data connection of any sort. W T F.....and of course this happens after having the phone for 38 days.
Running Liberty 3 2.0 atm w/ 5.5.886.
What is the latest official release so I can flash to it before calling and *****ing at Verizon?
idk bout the probs you're having other than you're rooted, etc, yada.
i'm still stock, no available updates, running sysver 5.5.886.XT875
Verizon is having nationwide data issues right now. Try switching to CDMA only. If I'm on CDMA/LTE it won't connect to any data but if I switch to CDMA only I at least get 3G.
I was thinking the same thing, I haven't had the data issues that a lot of people have with the Bionic. I was getting 34mbs download speeds this morning on 4G, then when I got to work, no data.....so I did all the known fixes, and still nothing, thought it was my phone until I read about the Verizon issue. Took me a while to get 3G running, but now it seems OK, just no 4G. Hopefully it will be back up soon.
Yup, the outage has been acknowledged by VZW. I think this is the 5th nationwide LTE outage I've experienced since purchasing the Tbolt on launch day back in March. It proves once again that VZW is very good at selling phones and not so good at running a reliable network.
I know that if the network where I work experienced 5 major outages in 7 months people would be fired. I'm sure the lower level engineers are hard at work fixing the problem but the Director or VP of wireless networks needs to go .... now.
As an operations guy who runs applications for a major health care system I know I plan changes in stages and must present and document validated back out procedures before I get to do the change. The change control process at VZW is SERIOUSLY BROKEN. I know what you network engineers are thinking .... someone fat-fingered a change. Nope, the severity and duration of this outage (and the ones before it) are a sign of much bigger problems.
I never thought I'd see the day where I seriously contemplated leaving a carrier because of network unreliability. Bad coverage is one thing but not knowing how to run a major network speaks to bigger problems.
Tried switching to cdma only first thing and no connection there either. Guy right beside me with a Samsung Charge was still getting 4g with 20mbps down.
For those keeping track you can add another data outage today. I'll echo my comments from above ... VZW is great at selling phones and not so good at running a reliable network.
Oh yeah, wasn't it Verizon that used to make fun of AT&T's network reliability? Sounds like they are following AT&T's footsteps. I just came back from Chicago which should be a strong 4G area, and I kept losing my data connection and my phone was already set to CDMA only. At home in the southeast I will occasionally lose data connectivity but not as bad a what I experienced in Chicago.