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OK, I know battery life is always an issue with PDA phones. I'm never far from a charger. I'm fine as long as I'm just checking e-mail (4 accounts, once an hour) and a little light web surfing with Opera Mini.
The problem arises when I use my phone as...well...a phone.
My Tilt loses battery power at an alarming rate when I'm talking on the phone. A 20 minute conversation will easily cost me 40% of my battery.
I'm usually in a non-3G area, so I'm on Edge. I normally have a good, strong 4-bar signal. Even when I'm in a 3G area, I use a different comm manager to turn off 3G to conserve power. I use KaiserTweak and select all the "Advised" settings in the power-related sections.
I've tried several different radios, but haven't noticed an improvement.
Does anyone have any ideas or recommendations on improving the efficiency of my Tilt in phone mode?
I have the same problem.
I have 3 batteries. 2 Samsungs and 1 Dynapak. Each battery lasts about 3 hours in standby. The phone is always warm as well. I have a utility that shows the phone is running around 380mAh current. That's seems pretty high.
I think theres something seriously wrong with certain batches of these phones.
these phones r seriously poor for battery life.. i love the htc but they slowly being overttaken by other phones.. shame!
maybe depends on the battery and ROM/radio because my Kaiser lasts 1 gay of VERY heavy usage+calling, and in stand by can lasts 6 days at least.
profusion said:
maybe depends on the battery and ROM/radio because my Kaiser lasts 1 gay of VERY heavy usage+calling, and in stand by can lasts 6 days at least.
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Really??
So, what battery are you using? Which ROM? Which radio?
profusion said:
maybe depends on the battery and ROM/radio because my Kaiser lasts 1 day of VERY heavy usage+calling, and in stand by can lasts 6 days at least.
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mine too or maybe more. Normally I charge every 2 days.
Seriously though, hasn't this topic been beat to death with a stylus?
Ask youself this, how is your battery and what all is running on the phone?
If the battery is a year old then just accept that it's shelf life is over with. If your phone is always warm that would general mean that one of the radios is running, Wifi , data, gps? If any of those are running all of the time or when you are not using it, then your draining the battery.
I have a friend that beat himself up trying to figure out why his battery would drain so fast, he reflashed the phone 3 times a day etc etc etc. He just could not accept that it was a crappy battery. I got another (used battery) and it worked fine.
ChumleyEX said:
mine too or maybe more. Normally I charge every 2 days.
Seriously though, hasn't this topic been beat to death with a stylus?
Ask youself this, how is your battery and what all is running on the phone?
If the battery is a year old then just accept that it's shelf life is over with. If your phone is always warm that would general mean that one of the radios is running, Wifi , data, gps? If any of those are running all of the time or when you are not using it, then your draining the battery.
I have a friend that beat himself up trying to figure out why his battery would drain so fast, he reflashed the phone 3 times a day etc etc etc. He just could not accept that it was a crappy battery. I got another (used battery) and it worked fine.
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Me too used to get about 2 days with a 2700 that is being registered correctly, i now tell everyone to not phone me "well they don't listen just like no one does" so i block all incoming calls with MagiCall, to what point do i have a phone now? To flash & twaek and text
"Am kinda joking but my stylus is now half the size due to this topic"
Buy a new battery.
I don't dig long phone calls unless there is something going on. Too many people just want to hang out on the phone and say nothing.
ChumleyEX said:
Buy a new battery.
I don't dig long phone calls unless there is something going on. Too many people just want to hang out on the phone and say nothing.
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Mine is a new battery Have to say same about people talking about nothing.
"The loss of battery was due to phonecall and radio i'm not moaning either i expect the battery life to not be perfect on any WM phone"
Well yeah radio version help too.
ChumleyEX said:
mine too or maybe more. Normally I charge every 2 days.
Seriously though, hasn't this topic been beat to death with a stylus?
Ask youself this, how is your battery and what all is running on the phone?
If the battery is a year old then just accept that it's shelf life is over with. If your phone is always warm that would general mean that one of the radios is running, Wifi , data, gps? If any of those are running all of the time or when you are not using it, then your draining the battery.
I have a friend that beat himself up trying to figure out why his battery would drain so fast, he reflashed the phone 3 times a day etc etc etc. He just could not accept that it was a crappy battery. I got another (used battery) and it worked fine.
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Click to collapse
This isn't my first foray into these HTC devices. I've been using them for nearly 2 years now, and I know the battery life on these devices isn't what it is on something like my old RAZR. I'm just fine with that; since the Tilt does so much more, I don't expect the charge to last a week like my RAZR did. But this drain while using the phone is driving me nuts.
FYI, I know to keep WiFi and GPS off, and to use KaiserTweak to shut down data connections when they're not being used. If I don't use the phone or surf, the battery will easily last me 2 days, and that's with checking 4 e-mail accounts every hour, and with SBSH PocketWeather getting updates every 2 hours. But talk on the phone, and it's a different story. I talked to my wife for about 30 minutes last night and went from 80% to 20% battery level.
The battery is only about 7-8 months old. Still, I ordered a new 1600ma battery last week, and it should be here in a day or two. I'm hoping that solves the problem.
It's possible that the battery you have now is under warranty. (if you bought the phone new)
good luck.
ChumleyEX said:
It's possible that the battery you have now is under warranty. (if you bought the phone new)
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Click to collapse
Unfortunately, it was a refurb, and the warranty expired a long time ago. The new battery wasn't exactly a budget killer.
Well my battery seems to be working now.
Phone is no longer hot all the time, and my utility says I'm using between 1 and 64 mA. That's much better than the 350+ mA it was sucking before.
I didn't do a damn thing different either. Didn't change any settings for the radios, didn't reflash, etc..
Some people think that the GPS get's stuck in the "on" position and there's no way to turn it off, short of opening and closing GPS Aware programs repeatedly until your current usage drops in the sub 100 mA range.
Always discharge your battery fully as possible at least 1 a week to ensure your battery last longer, lots of charges above the threshold will diminish your batteries life and capacity. The Kaiser is a powerful device and it is obvious to anyone that this requires power to run it, so the battery wont last for days. :-(
tinmanjo said:
Always discharge your battery fully as possible at least 1 a week to ensure your battery last longer, lots of charges above the threshold will diminish your batteries life and capacity. The Kaiser is a powerful device and it is obvious to anyone that this requires power to run it, so the battery wont last for days. :-(
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HUH???????
These are Lithium batteries, we aren't in the 90's anymore buddy.. My phone lasts for at least 2 days and sometimes 3 (the phone is over a year old too)..
Welcome to the year 2009
"1. Battery Memory - When I first got my new cellphone, my friend recommended to fully drain the battery before recharging it. His reasoning was connected to the idea of battery memory. Allowing the battery to fully discharge then recharging to max, supposedly gives you the complete battery capacity. Otherwise, if you simply charged from the half way point to max battery capacity, the battery would treat the half way point as the empty point, thus cutting your battery capacity in half.
Problem is battery memory doesn’t apply to Lithium batteries, this advice was meant for Nickel based batteries. Fully discharging your Lithium battery frequently can actually be quite harmful to your battery’s health, possibly rendering it completely unusable if energy levels go too low.
The good news is today’s lithium batteries have a safety circuit in place to insure the battery doesn’t reach the point of no return. The safety circuit isn’t fool proof of course, if you leave your battery completely drained for a few days, even the circuit’s protective measures won’t save it.
"
INFACT it's recommended to leave a little bit of a charge before charging or storing.
l o l
Be that as it may, when you get a new battery you still have to use it for a few weeks before the phone reports battery levels accurately. The phone may still shut down when WM thinks it's almost empty, regardless if it's actually empty or not. Just try it, battery life improves over the first few weeks of usage, and your battery level readings will get more stable (instead of dropping to 50% in 10 minutes and then proceeding to stay there for 6 hours).
BTW my kaiser lasts about 3 days as well, with fairly heavy usage.
No fair, I want a bazillion stars next to my name too.
I Think this guy has had the phone and battery for a little while, so the few weeks thing might not be an option. (well at least the battery he was posting about)
HUH???????
These are Lithium batteries, we aren't in the 90's anymore buddy.. My phone lasts for at least 2 days and sometimes 3 (the phone is over a year old too)..
Welcome to the year 2009
"1. Battery Memory - When I first got my new cellphone, my friend recommended to fully drain the battery before recharging it. His reasoning was connected to the idea of battery memory. Allowing the battery to fully discharge then recharging to max, supposedly gives you the complete battery capacity. Otherwise, if you simply charged from the half way point to max battery capacity, the battery would treat the half way point as the empty point, thus cutting your battery capacity in half.
Problem is battery memory doesn’t apply to Lithium batteries, this advice was meant for Nickel based batteries. Fully discharging your Lithium battery frequently can actually be quite harmful to your battery’s health, possibly rendering it completely unusable if energy levels go too low.
The good news is today’s lithium batteries have a safety circuit in place to insure the battery doesn’t reach the point of no return. The safety circuit isn’t fool proof of course, if you leave your battery completely drained for a few days, even the circuit’s protective measures won’t save it.
"
INFACT it's recommended to leave a little bit of a charge before charging or storing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As refered to your reply, i didnt mean discharge fully completely i meant the cut off point would stop you anyhow, i meant to bring it to about 10%, i found that using the battery until it reaches 10-12% far by decreases battery drain when it is fully charged again, this is only 1 in a while though not frequently. I understand lithuim-ion doesnt have a memory effect problem, but there is such thing as variable current influencing different cells which can either benefit or make it worst, there is a lot of debate as to whether this improves it or not.
Great tip, keep it cool and away from your pocket pants because heat kills it.
Dude thats no fun to keep it out of your pocket,
hi!
guys, when should i charge the Galaxy S battery to maximize his life?
In my old phone, i only charge it when the phone shuts down himself. It can run for 7 days with no problems until i need to charge again.
Should i do the same thing with Galaxy S battery?
Well, when i need to connect the phone to the PC using USB cable, it will charge anyway. Is it bad? Should i do it only when i know the battery needs to be charged (when it has low battery)?
any time you want
it should always be topped up, there is no memory effect
Some people say that we should charge when the phone has 25% or 30% of the battery. And every month we should make a complete charge and discharge.
Is this a good method to keep the battery ok?
best way is to cycle through 2 or 3 batteries
charge them full
then use them down until you get the warning, and change to new battery pack, then take the used battery to the charger
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=733705
Although I don't really have any definite sources to back this up, I've read several places that Li-Ion and Li-Polymer batteries can (and even should) be charged as often as possible. You should avoid letting them run flat, apparently.
What is certain though, is that they themselves have no memory effect like NiCd and NiMh batteries have.
our SGS will nag you to death as soon as it reaches 10%, and it will constantly annoys you to charge the battery at 5%
so, no worry about running flat
Technically to maximize the life (ie. capacity) of a Li-ion battery you should charge to full when it gets down to 40%.
The cooler the ambient temperature the better - A Li-ion battery operating at 25 degrees C will lose 20% of its capacity in one year. Higher temperatures drastically increase this degradation.
Given that most people will move to a newer phone after 2 years or so, and spare batteries are cheap as chips, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference.
So, people say that we should charge the battery when it has 30-40% of the capacity.
But what is the thechnical explanation?
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
that's exactly what i would like to know as well at 30%-40% will make the battery totally useless if that is true
might as well take the phone with a super long extension cold with you if that were true
LMAO
AllGamer said:
best way is to cycle through 2 or 3 batteries
charge them full
then use them down until you get the warning, and change to new battery pack, then take the used battery to the charger
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=733705
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Click to collapse
I don't think that would be the best strategy, AFAIK (and read)
Li-ion packs prefer more frequent charges, even if after partial discharges, than full charge-discharge cycles.
Its also not good to store the pack fully charged. Best to store at 40% charge.
Following these 2 concepts, I imagine its better to charge the battery as often as possible, like every day, than to let it discharge until you get the warning.
Also, if you cycle through several packs, letting each one discharge almost completely, then charge it fully and move to a different pack like you suggested, that means you will be letting the battery unused at full charge for a longer period (the more packages you use, the longer the pack will stay stored at full charge).
Thats how I understand the behavior of those batteries. Just my 2 cents.
Paulo
I will say what the first reply said, charge as often as you feel you have time. Do not wait for any percentage of drain. There is no memory effect and yes about once a month do one full uninterrupted cycle. The point of which is to let the device's power management recalibrate where 0 (or thereabouts and 100% of the current fill are.
Cooler is better, this is also true.
All educated advice on Li-Ion batteries is that they remain healthier for longer the fuller they are, but the chemicals must be exercised occasionally, thus the full charge cycle in one go.
One charge cycle also actually counts over multiple charges, and not just uninterrupted ones. You can drain then charge 25% 4 times and that is counted as one cycle for these batteries.
I have always stuck to this advice since I learnt of it several years back and I find my batteries work better and longer than many people I know (who stick with drain, charge methods (lack of updated information).
i agree with nailerr
Simply charge it when you need to. It's better to have a fully charged battery when you need it, than run out of battery when an important call is coming through
So, the main reason to charge it with 30%-40% left is to avoid the battery heat too much?
I found this: h**p://batterycare.net/en/guide.html
It says more or less what you guys said here.
But you need to know that i always charge from 0% to 100% my old phone. It is 4 years old and it has no problems with the battery. It can run up to 7 days without any charge... Looks like charge it that way is not so bad anyway i guess...
I've been following the great battery impression thread, which discusses ways to tweak the Nexus 4 settings, ROMs, and so forth for maximum run time between charging. This thread focuses on a different battery concern.
The Nexus 4 lithium polymer battery is sealed, and as far as I know, there are still several unknowns about replacing it. We've seen a tear-down showing how to remove the battery. However, as of now, few users have attempted it and there's not a consensus about how easy or difficult it is to do. Questions include:
Even with the correct tools, are the tabs that secure the Nexus 4's back prone to breakage, potentially leaving the case borked?
Is the battery difficult to extricate from its compartment?
Will it a high quality replacement battery become available inexpensively on eBay and elsewhere, or is it this battery, which was not designed to be user-replaceable, too much of an oddball for that to happen meaning that a replacement battery will be expensive and hard to find?
That said, the ease (or lack thereof) of replacing the Nexus 4's battery isn't what I've come here to discuss.
Given the unknowns about battery replacement, my concern is to how to maximize the Nexus 4 battery charge cycles and reduce the capacity drop of the battery over time. It could be bad if after just a year, the Nexus 4's capacity is already noticeably dropping. Not possible? I'm not so sure. Based on what I've read, it may depend upon how we handle charging.
This article at "Battery University" discusses the discharge characteristics of Lithium batteries, and it is my understanding that Lithium Polymer batteries, like the one in the Nexus 4 mirror these characteristics.
My takeaway from the article is:
Charging the Nexus 4 battery before it drops to less than 50% capacity will greatly increase the number of charge cycles before there's a noticeable capacity drop. Letting the battery nearly completely discharge will greatly reduce the number of charge cycles, and therefore greatly reduce the time before battery replacement will be necessary. (Table 2)
Inductive (wireless) charging, while convenient, generates extra heat that will over time reduce the recoverable capacity of the battery. (Table 3)
Having read this article, I am curious about the charging characteristics of the Nexus 4 and which, if any, charging variables we can control as users to maximize battery longevity.
When I first get a new smartphone I try to do a handful of full cycle charges before doing any partial charges. Your battery is still "new" and in the "break in" period. Many users that were the first to get theirs have reported their battery life as getting better. Of course a lot to do with battery are things like your data usage and what you have syncing.
RealiZms said:
When I first get a new smartphone I try to do a handful of full cycle charges before doing any partial charges. Your battery is still "new" and in the "break in" period. Many users that were the first to get theirs have reported their battery life as getting better. Of course a lot to do with battery are things like your data usage and what you have syncing.
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Thanks, but I will again clarify that that I created this thread to discuss maximizing the Nexus 4 battery's long-term life and recoverable capacity, not maximizing run-down time in the short-term. That is already being discussed extensively in the great battery impression thread.
I have had a lot of experience with LiIon batteries over the years and I can tell you that the enemy of them is both inactivity and deep discharge use.
Use your phone as you normally would, but avoid frequent deep discharges. Don't be afraid about the number of charge cycles. Frequent charges are better than deep discharge cycles.
These pups have been designed to be used the way most folks use frequently used rechargeable devices. Pop it on the charger when you can, even if you know it won't be there long enough to be topped off. The more frequent and varied activity the better.
I'll add that I do not currently see an LG BL-T5 Nexus 4 replacement battery sold anywhere.
FYI - The Nexus 4 uses an 800 cycle battery as well so makes it even less of a thing to worry about. My SGS2 still gives me good battery life and it's more than 1yr old already, and i think that is a 300 cycle battery. Remember also that at that 800 cycle mark the battery should still have 80% of it's original capacity. 800 cycles is more than 2yrs of constant use/charge every night and for people that don't so much that could put you in the 3yr-4yr range. If you still have this phone 4yrs from now, i think you wont need to complain if it "only" has 80% of it's original charge.
Hi
borntochill said:
I've been following the great battery impression thread, which discusses ways to tweak the Nexus 4 settings, ROMs, and so forth for maximum run time between charging. This thread focuses on a different battery concern.
The Nexus 4 lithium polymer battery is sealed, and as far as I know, there are still several unknowns about replacing it. We've seen a tear-down showing how to remove the battery. However, as of now, few users have attempted it and there's not a consensus about how easy or difficult it is to do. Questions include:
Even with the correct tools, are the tabs that secure the Nexus 4's back prone to breakage, potentially leaving the case borked?
Is the battery difficult to extricate from its compartment?
Will it a high quality replacement battery become available inexpensively on eBay and elsewhere, or is it this battery, which was not designed to be user-replaceable, too much of an oddball for that to happen meaning that a replacement battery will be expensive and hard to find?
That said, the ease (or lack thereof) of replacing the Nexus 4's battery isn't what I've come here to discuss.
Given the unknowns about battery replacement, my concern is to how to maximize the Nexus 4 battery charge cycles and reduce the capacity drop of the battery over time. It could be bad if after just a year, the Nexus 4's capacity is already noticeably dropping. Not possible? I'm not so sure. Based on what I've read, it may depend upon how we handle charging.
This article at "Battery University" discusses the discharge characteristics of Lithium batteries, and it is my understanding that Lithium Polymer batteries, like the one in the Nexus 4 mirror these characteristics.
My takeaway from the article is:
Charging the Nexus 4 battery before it drops to less than 50% capacity will greatly increase the number of charge cycles before there's a noticeable capacity drop. Letting the battery nearly completely discharge will greatly reduce the number of charge cycles, and therefore greatly reduce the time before battery replacement will be necessary. (Table 2)
Inductive (wireless) charging, while convenient, generates extra heat that will over time reduce the recoverable capacity of the battery. (Table 3)
Having read this article, I am curious about the charging characteristics of the Nexus 4 and which, if any, charging variables we can control as users to maximize battery longevity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is little point in worrying about charging before it's discharged to 50% and/or not charging to maximum. Yes it increases the number of cycles, but is reducing runtime between those cycles, so you have to charge it twice as often using up the extra cycles gained, so overall it tends to even out.
The longevity argument for only partial discharges really only applies at the time of design and specification where the manufacturer can spec a larger battery and sacrifice some of the capacity (by only charging say from 30 to 70%) to get extra charge cycles. Clearly with a mobile phone this isn't desirable to do, as we crave all the the runtime we can get in the smallest form factor possible.
Regards
Phil
shotta35 said:
FYI - The Nexus 4 uses an 800 cycle battery as well so makes it even less of a thing to worry about. My SGS2 still gives me good battery life and it's more than 1yr old already, and i think that is a 300 cycle battery. Remember also that at that 800 cycle mark the battery should still have 80% of it's original capacity. 800 cycles is more than 2yrs of constant use/charge every night and for people that don't so much that could put you in the 3yr-4yr range. If you still have this phone 4yrs from now, i think you wont need to complain if it "only" has 80% of it's original charge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is the "800 cycle" rating is based on real world usage, or a set of idealized laboratory conditions that few users will actually meet? Many Nexus 4 forum users are reporting running down their batteries to a discharge depth exceeding 90% on a daily basis before recharging. This will dramatically reduce their battery's number of charge cycles. The "800 cycle" rating is only useful if we know the conditions upon which it was tested.
PhilipL said:
Hi
There is little point in worrying about charging before it's discharged to 50% and/or not charging to maximum. Yes it increases the number of cycles, but is reducing runtime between those cycles, so you have to charge it twice as often using up the extra cycles gained, so overall it tends to even out.
The longevity argument for only partial discharges really only applies at the time of design and specification where the manufacturer can spec a larger battery and sacrifice some of the capacity (by only charging say from 30 to 70%) to get extra charge cycles. Clearly with a mobile phone this isn't desirable to do, as we crave all the the runtime we can get in the smallest form factor possible.
Regards
Phil
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Point taken, although it looks to me like the relationship between discharge depth and maximum number of charge cycles is not linear. From the way I read it, frequent deep discharging can markedly impact battery longevity which is why I'm skeptical of the 800 cycle figure. Given that many Nexus 4 users are currently reporting an inability to make it through a full day without completely draining their battery, those particular users are bound to have shortened battery longevity unless they charge at least twice/day.
Hi
borntochill said:
Point taken, although it looks to me like the relationship between discharge depth and maximum number of charge cycles is not linear. From the way I read it, frequent deep discharging can markedly impact battery longevity which is why I'm skeptical of the 800 cycle figure. Given that many Nexus 4 users are currently reporting an inability to make it through a full day without completely draining their battery, those particular users are bound to have shortened battery longevity unless they charge at least twice/day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it isn't linear, but the advantages are also outweighed by the negatives, such as having to plug it in more often to charge, and if people are struggling to get through the day now on a full charge/discharge cycle.....
The 800 cycle figure is probably about right for chemistry used in the LG Nexus, and most of us will have replaced our phone in a couple of years anyway long before we start to notice the lowered battery life.
The other thing with a lithium batteries is they are like perishable foods, even if we don't use them much, after a few years the capacity has diminished anyway. So even if we only charged the phone twice in two years, the third charge capacity would probably not be that much different to having charged it every day for two years.
So we shouldn't worry about the battery, the best thing we can do is use it as much as possible as it is going to degrade anyway, and we will see little benefit from treating it with kit gloves.
The above also assumes the battery can never be replaced. It certainly is replaceable by the manufacturer or a repair centre, and more than likely most of us could manage a replacement ourselves.
Regards
Phil
One very important thing to realize is that these 500/800 or whatever hundred cycles it's talking about is not how many times it can be charged, period.
It's not like after the 500th or 800th charge, this battery can never be powered on again.
Read the article closely:
" the number of discharge/charge cycles Li-ion can deliver at various DoD levels before the battery capacity drops to 70 percent."
Also, if you lower the voltage of the charge, it seems battery long term life greatly increases:
"Most Li-ions are charged to 4.20V/cell and every reduction of 0.10V/cell is said to double cycle life. For example, a lithium-ion cell charged to 4.20V/cell typically delivers 300–500 cycles. If charged to only 4.10V/cell, the life can be prolonged to 600–1,000 cycles; 4.00V/cell should deliver 1,200–2,000 and 3.90V/cell 2,400–4,000 cycles. Table 4 summarizes these results. The values are estimate and depend on the type of li-ion-ion battery."
Hi
borntochill said:
Is the "800 cycle" rating is based on real world usage, or a set of idealized laboratory conditions that few users will actually meet? Many Nexus 4 forum users are reporting running down their batteries to a discharge depth exceeding 90% on a daily basis before recharging. This will dramatically reduce their battery's number of charge cycles. The "800 cycle" rating is only useful if we know the conditions upon which it was tested.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When a lithium battery is fully discharged, it isn't actually completely discharged. LG like other manufacturers will have programmed a level that shows 0% on the phone before it shuts down, but in reality this might still leave 10% or 20% or 2% capacity in reserve, we don't know the figure, but presumably LG have set both full and empty charge points to ensure we see around 800 cycles.
Regards
Phil
---------- Post added at 09:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:10 PM ----------
Hi
ksc6000 said:
Also, if you lower the voltage of the charge, it seems battery long term life greatly increases:
"Most Li-ions are charged to 4.20V/cell and every reduction of 0.10V/cell is said to double cycle life. For example, a lithium-ion cell charged to 4.20V/cell typically delivers 300–500 cycles. If charged to only 4.10V/cell, the life can be prolonged to 600–1,000 cycles; 4.00V/cell should deliver 1,200–2,000 and 3.90V/cell 2,400–4,000 cycles. Table 4 summarizes these results. The values are estimate and depend on the type of li-ion-ion battery."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes you get more cycles, but because you have a battery with reduced capacity, you are having to charge it more. Overall the benefit isn't as great as the numbers make it. If LG wanted to give us 1600 cycles they could lower the charge voltages, but then the battery capacity would have to be advertised at around 1050mAh, meaning it lasts half the time it does now, and will need charging around twice as often.
For a mobile phone with a typical 2 year life span, the priority is to maximum the time between charges while ensuring the battery lasts the typical 2 years of most peoples phone contracts. It isn't a co-incidence that 800 charges works out as a bit over 2 years if you charge every day.
We don't need to worry about the battery, just enjoy using the phone. Also the battery doesn't just stop working at 800 cycles either, it just doesn't hold as much charge, but capacity is lost anyway over time regardless if you use it or not as lithium batteries start to age the moment they are made.
Regards
Phil
PhilipL said:
For a mobile phone with a typical 2 year life span, the priority is to maximum the time between charges while ensuring the battery lasts the typical 2 years of most peoples phone contracts. It isn't a co-incidence that 800 charges works out as a bit over 2 years if you charge every day.
We don't need to worry about the battery, just enjoy using the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A lot of assumptions there, Phil.
My "priorities" and LG's differ. 2 years from now, some will replace their Nexus 4 with whatever shiny new phone comes along that offers holographic video projection chat and does double duty as a sex robot. However, I will happily trudge on with my Nexus 4 for between 3 to 5 years which is how long I typically own a phone before replacement. I don't need bleeding edge, especially if the bleeding edge is a menstruating sex robot phone. Just sayin'.
We don't know if the Nexus 4 battery replacement will turn out to be either very costly and/or difficult. For those of us who don't plan to toss our Nexus 4 into a landfill two years from now, it pays to know what measures we can take to prolong battery longevity.
'Maximizing Nexus 4 battery'
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'Menstruating sex robot'
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Hmmmm....how did that happen...
I don't know if we will really know how good the battery longevity is in this thing until the device is a year old or more. Lithium polymer technology varies a lot. There have been a lot of advances with this tech in the last few years and some companies claim to have developed manufacturing techniques that allow THOUSANDS of charge before noticeable drops in batty capacity. Other technologies developed include the tech Apple uses and advertised in its MacBook line a few years ago that claimed longer battery life and very fast charging compared to Lithium Ion batteries. It all varies. LG claims to have some special tech baked into this battery that allows it to charge to a higher voltage compared to batteries of similar size, but I don't know how long its life is rated at.
666fff said:
'Maximizing Nexus 4 battery'
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'Menstruating sex robot'
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Hmmmm....how did that happen...
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You apparently haven't seen the leaked mock-up of the Nexus 6.
borntochill said:
You apparently haven't seen the leaked mock-up of the Nexus 6.
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I would consider an early upgrade for a menstruating Daryl Hannah any day
Hi all,
I'm very interested in switching to the z3 compact yet my main concern is the built-in battery. I'm concern that the battery might fail after the 1 yr warranty has elapsed. If this happens; I'd be at the mercy of the sony service center. Replacing a built-in battery will definitely cost a lot more than just swapping out interchangeable batteries like I do now with my s4 mini.
The xperia Z line has been around for 2 years now if I'm not mistaken, can anyone share the battery health of their Z device after 1 or 2 years of constant use (those who recharge every night). after the 2nd year did you feel that the battery lasts far less than what is acceptable? and how much did it cost you to get it replaced? or you just sold it and bought a newer generation phone.
Chadie said:
Hi all,
I'm very interested in switching to the z3 compact yet my main concern is the built-in battery. I'm concern that the battery might fail after the 1 yr warranty has elapsed. If this happens; I'd be at the mercy of the sony service center. Replacing a built-in battery will definitely cost a lot more than just swapping out interchangeable batteries like I do now with my s4 mini.
The xperia Z line has been around for 2 years now if I'm not mistaken, can anyone share the battery health of their Z device after 1 or 2 years of constant use (those who recharge every night). after the 2nd year did you feel that the battery lasts far less than what is acceptable? and how much did it cost you to get it replaced? or you just sold it and bought a newer generation phone.
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It all depends on the way you charge your batteries.
- If you repeatedly using your phone till it's dead or almost dead, then recharge to full, the longevity will be short.
- Longevity is also affected by the length of time it is connected to the charger, the shorter the better.
- If you keep it at 100% all the time, this will reduce longevity ( fully charged = highly stressed battery).
I learned the above from the site below, so more info there:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
ShadowFlare said:
It all depends on the way you charge your batteries.
- If you repeatedly using your phone till it's dead or almost dead, then recharge to full, the longevity will be short.
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This is what is happening to my s4 mini now. The battery barely lasts a day on my normal usage. Now I'm hardly using it because I'm afraid it will run out of juice before I reach home. I gets to a low 20% and then I charge it overnight. the z3 compact's 2 day battery will solve this for me, hopefully.
- Longevity is also affected by the length of time it is connected to the charger, the shorter the better.
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well that is a bummer. I was planning on purchasing a dock to set it as my alarm clock.
- If you keep it at 100% all the time, this will reduce longevity ( fully charged = highly stressed battery).
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I normally keep my phone plugged in over night so that I can be certain that it will be full in the morning when I leave. This is because my current phone's battery drops by 10-17% overnight while I sleep. I compared that to an 5S running on 2G = 1-3% = awesome. (btw; signal is very ok at my house so I don't think it is waking up due to that)
Thank you for your inputs. I guess I'll have to change how I charge my phones from now on.
Have had my xperia z almost since launch and can't really say t hey I noticed any big difference in battery life. Sure some it prob are would be strange but lot so I notice it.
And for the long charge it isn't that big of a problem, have had my Z in the dock over night every day.
As with all these batteries (Li-ion): if you store them leave them at 40-60% then store them away , they dont like to run fully emtpy (although there probably is some hibernation implemented in the system like on laptops) nor fully charged.I think thats the reason why you also never get a fully charged/discharged device .
Batteries have been getting smarter so modern batteries of this type will never charge to 100% even though they display it (thats why leaving them connected it basically does no harm). I am assuming the Z3C also does it this way.
I recommend "calibrating" the battery once or twice every two months that means full charge , then full discharge, then full charge again but beware that if your battery is near death this procedure could be its killing blow due to bad cells .So just do it if you do not experience any problems with the battery, like a sudden drop in battery. Otherwise you can calmly "let it learn" its real capacity.
But again technology has also not slowed down on batteries and as this is a modern device which I think you cant kill with normal usage just extend its life (a bit).
tribemac said:
Have had my xperia z almost since launch and can't really say t hey I noticed any big difference in battery life. Sure some it prob are would be strange but lot so I notice it.
And for the long charge it isn't that big of a problem, have had my Z in the dock over night every day.
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I also had my XZ since launch, with BT always on I use about 50% during a normal working day.
Have my Z3C for about 3 weeks now, so only time will tell whether the battery lasts. However, this is not my first Sony phone and the Xperia U (about 2 years old, now being used by our son) hardly shows any degradation. Same goes with the Xperia M (1 year old) and still going like new. Adding to that, I never actually paid much attention to when or how I recharged....
Batteries don't usually go bad all at once. Instead, wearing out is more of a gradual process of not charging quite as high and discharging faster. Since this battery is so good to begin with, I would think compared to other devices you could buy right now it will last a long time.
A year from now you'll still get more life out of even an abused z3c battery than you'd get out of that undersized cell in a brand new Moto X.
I've been using both the incipio offgrid, and tumi powerpack battery mods (both are wireless charging variants) and have noticed just awful battery life. from 100% it charges my phone up maybe 15-20 percent, and thats with the screen off, just streaming music. If I'm using the phone (just surfing the web or instagram) the battery dies in around 30-45 minutes, is this normal? I expected alot more out of these. I can just stare at the notification bar and watch as the battery drops, my software is up to date, and I was just wondering if this is normal? Is everyone else getting this awful performance? I expected way more for like 70-80 bucks each...
Sky's Divide said:
I've been using both the incipio offgrid, and tumi powerpack battery mods (both are wireless charging variants) and have noticed just awful battery life. from 100% it charges my phone up maybe 15-20 percent, and thats with the screen off, just streaming music. If I'm using the phone (just surfing the web or instagram) the battery dies in around 30-45 minutes, is this normal? I expected alot more out of these. I can just stare at the notification bar and watch as the battery drops, my software is up to date, and I was just wondering if this is normal? Is everyone else getting this awful performance? I expected way more for like 70-80 bucks each...
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This is not normal. While I don't have either of these, based on the reading I've done and reports I've seen from people who do, the Incipio off grid should be able to charge your phone up 50-75% when attached. Not sure if you have some crazy wakelock that's keeping your CPU maxed out all the time or what, but dying in 30-40 minutes makes no sense.
xxBrun0xx said:
This is not normal. While I don't have either of these, based on the reading I've done and reports I've seen from people who do, the Incipio off grid should be able to charge your phone up 50-75% when attached. Not sure if you have some crazy wakelock that's keeping your CPU maxed out all the time or what, but dying in 30-40 minutes makes no sense.
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When I got it to die In 30-40 min I was on a phone call and surfing instagram. Took the tumi out yesterday with 80% battery in it and had my phones screen off streaming music over Bluetooth. The phone charged up about 25% before the battery pack died. Any ideas on how I could improve the battery life? My moto mods manager is up to date and I don't get any prompts to update anything whenever I snap on the mods
I was surprised when I found this post, so I checked how many percent of battery do I get with a my incipio battery mod. I plugged the mod, my phone's battery was at 15% and the battery mod was at 100%.
Now the Incipio battery mod is empty and my phone's battery is at 50%. So it charged my phone by 35%.
Pretty disappointing for a 2220 mAh battery that costs almost 100€ ...
To me the best use of the mod is to snap it on when the Moto Z Play is fully charged and to chose the option to keep the phone battery at 80%. With normal use, i've seen the mod keep the phone at 80% for up to a day. To me the mod is not meant to charge the phone but more to keep it from discharging.
To me the idea of the battery mod makes no sense.
There is an Aukey 16000 mAh power pack with QuickCharge 3.0 available which boosts the battery in nearly no time. I paid less than 20 Euro.
Who needs such a battery mod with a Moto Z Play which lasts all day under heavy usage?
Who needs such a battery mod when power packs are big, cheap and fast?
Who even needs the power pack if you have a wall outlet with a QuickCharge 3.0 charger boosting the battery percentage in no time? I needed that power pack when the previous phone (Moto X Play) had some hardware defect making it lose power.
Edit: These questions are meant honestly. Are you living in the desert for several days and can't afford to carry a bag?
tag68 said:
To me the idea of the battery mod makes no sense.
There is an Aukey 16000 mAh power pack with QuickCharge 3.0 available which boosts the battery in nearly no time. I paid less than 20 Euro.
Who needs such a battery mod with a Moto Z Play which lasts all day under heavy usage?
Who needs such a battery mod when power packs are big, cheap and fast?
Who even needs the power pack if you have a wall outlet with a QuickCharge 3.0 charger boosting the battery percentage in no time? I needed that power pack when the previous phone (Moto X Play) had some hardware defect making it lose power.
Edit: These questions are meant honestly. Are you living in the desert for several days and can't afford to carry a bag?
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The battery mods are not particularly useful for the Z Play because if you charge every night, you have basically unlimited battery life. Battery packs are extremely useful for the regular Z, though, which has extremely poor battery life on its own. They're basically mandatory for the Z.
I'm shocked that battery mods can only charge your internal battery and can't be used directly (discharging the mod battery instead of the internal battery), the same way Thinkpads that have more than one battery can do. That makes the $80 (vs maybe $10 for a 2000 mah ravpower) cost all the more eyebrow-raising.
I'd love to use them as a way of preserving the sealed in internal battery's longevity, making the internal battery the backup battery and wearing out the easily replaceable, easily swappable mods instead.
fortunz said:
I'd love to use them as a way of preserving the sealed in internal battery's longevity,
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What do you think how a battery should be treated to prolong its lifetime?
This is a serious question. I'm not sure if charging cycles do matter these days. The point which makes batteries getting weak is the age. An additional battery will not help reduce the age.
Of course you should be careful not to be in extreme cold or heat. If the battery is below 30 percent, you should consider to charge it. You should not charge it again if it's over 80 percent. But trying not to use it seems not to really be helpful for the battery to have a longer life, although battery lifetime usually is given in battery cycles. At least this is my experience. If it does not get hot when used or charged, all batteries nowadays start getting weaker a bit after about 2 years, it gets really recognizable after 4 years, and when they are 6-8 years old, they get so low that they may not fulfill there purpose anymore. Cycles? Never recognized any influence for the lifetime. But one hot day with a usage above average where the battery gets hot may really cause a recognizable decrease in capacity.
If you have some source comparing battery lifetime for different use cases (storage, low usage, middle usage, frequent usage, under different conditions of temperature, fast charge and slow charge) I'd be really interested.
tag68 said:
What do you think how a battery should be treated to prolong its lifetime?
This is a serious question. I'm not sure if charging cycles do matter these days. The point which makes batteries getting weak is the age. An additional battery will not help reduce the age.
Of course you should be careful not to be in extreme cold or heat. If the battery is below 30 percent, you should consider to charge it. You should not charge it again if it's over 80 percent. But trying not to use it seems not to really be helpful for the battery to have a longer life, although battery lifetime usually is given in battery cycles. At least this is my experience. If it does not get hot when used or charged, all batteries nowadays start getting weaker a bit after about 2 years, it gets really recognizable after 4 years, and when they are 6-8 years old, they get so low that they may not fulfill there purpose anymore. Cycles? Never recognized any influence for the lifetime. But one hot day with a usage above average where the battery gets hot may really cause a recognizable decrease in capacity.
If you have some source comparing battery lifetime for different use cases (storage, low usage, middle usage, frequent usage, under different conditions of temperature, fast charge and slow charge) I'd be really interested.
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Same sources as you, personal experience and basic knowledge (battery life being measured in cycles). I'm not even completely worried about average aging, but out of a batch of millions of batteries, plenty will start to experience rapid discharge early, even without abnormal heat, not to the point of being completely dead, but certainly no longer tolerable. Today's phone batteries might actually tolerate heat better than in the past, having been built for quick charging, which is the hottest a sd625 seems to get.
I've read manuals and battery university and a few tech blog articles all of which have differing advice, just like you and me, but I have yet to find a source I find credible (based on diverse large scale testing not limited anecdotal evidence or in the case of manuals, insanely outdated nicad-era stuff). And, sincerely no offense intended, I'm unlikely to decide cycles don't matter and weight your anecdotal evidence over mine anymore than you'd weight mine over yours. But if you ever find a good source with those comparisons, I'd be pleased to check it out too.
tag68 said:
Who needs such a battery mod with a Moto Z Play which lasts all day under heavy usage?
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Because I'm a very heavy user of my phone and don't want to worry about power even if I can't get to a outlet during the day.
Who needs such a battery mod when power packs are big, cheap and fast?
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Because the bat mod is easy to slap on and keep on all the time (when I'm not using a different mod). Then I never have to worry about taking the pack with me or not or carrying the extra cable with me or not.
Who even needs the power pack if you have a wall outlet with a QuickCharge 3.0 charger boosting the battery percentage in no time?
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Because I don't want to have to worry about having the charger with me or finding a spot to charge.
I fully admit that I tend to be more paranoid about running out of power than I need to be, but I like to be secure knowing that I should have more than enough battery life, even if I can't charge overnight. I like to know that I can grab my phone at any point of the day and walk out the door with it without having to worry about taking a charger with me.
RedRamage said:
I fully admit that I tend to be more paranoid about running out of power than I need to be, but I like to be secure knowing that I should have more than enough battery life, even if I can't charge overnight. I like to know that I can grab my phone at any point of the day and walk out the door with it without having to worry about taking a charger with me.
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I quite like just not having to charge for three days. I have the battery mod which I use on the efficiency mode, and I got over a full day out of it. At the end of day three I had nearly 30% battery left. Probably enough for most of one more day.
The other thing for me is using wireless charging. I like just slapping my phone on a stand overnight when I do charge it. It charges slowly, yes, but it doesn't matter if I am charging overnight. I still have access to the quick charger if I need to get a full battery quick!
I use mine on my motorcycle where I'm riding for 10 hours a day. I'm at about 50% in 4 hours and dead by 7 or 8, so I'm hoping with the additional battery MOD that I can get at least 12 hours charge. I'm really bad about remembering to plug my phone in when I stop for a break!
@tag68 : dude I think you totally missed to read what @fortunz was saying, he was only pointing that he would like the Mods to be used as a primary source battery instead of being a "ultra-portable power bank".
Given that there is also a fraction of the power being lost in the form of heat, during charge/transfer, it is even more silly from Motorola not to have the battery used directly. I can say by the 25-35% charge from the Mods estimated from other users, that the efficiency is somewhere around 50%, HORRIBLE to say the least.
And yeah I was reading through both of your posts and good information was provided, although unnecessary friction used (not naming anyone).
I actually have kind of the same idea from @fortunz to prolong the battery life of my Z-play even with the mod just being a power bank.
Saying that the mods (~2220mah) charge your phone anywhere between 25-35%, I can actually take the top 25-35% out of my internal battery use and move it to the Mod.
So I can charge my phone up to 70% before going to bed, and then when my phone reaches 30% during the use next day, I'll just slap the mod.
I can allow myself a lot of variation to this, I will not be religious about it, the topic is to avoid hitting 100% charge, and instead, moving the wear of that 30% usage to the Mod.
According, to many articles, citing just one below, considering the depth of discharges and voltage levels, you guys might do the equation if you like, but according to the charts and theory:
charging my phone twice a day trying not to exceed 70%, will give me WAY more longevity run than charging up to 100% every day.
First charge will be from around 15% which is my normal deadline to around 70% with a wall charger, before going to bed.
Second charge will be from the mod from around 30% to around 60% (hopefully), which will give me portability while charging.
Total screen on time during the day, should be around 10% less, but well worth and I can definitely take the hit if getting more battery longevity as a trade.
Source:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Huh, it even makes sense when explaining to other people...
In re: friction, I took no offense from the exchange. Hopefully I didn't cause any either.
Good luck with your efforts. I have considered using this app to to stop charging early: https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/apps-games/root-battery-charge-limit-t3557002 Haven't started using it yet.
fortunz said:
In re: friction, I took no offense from the exchange. Hopefully I didn't cause any either.
Good luck with your efforts. I have considered using this app to to stop charging early: https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/apps-games/root-battery-charge-limit-t3557002 Haven't started using it yet.
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Sadly that application requires root... and I don't want to unlock the bootloader and then having to worry about SafetyNet...
For me SafetyNet is green using Magisk 12.0 as root solution, but that may change of course. But it would help for the battery.
Short rant about this topic: It is strange that the owner of a device can be forbidden to restrict the charging. You bought it, you should be able to do these things with it. Introducing SafetyNet is a bad idea by Google. Security should be made by algorithms, not by hardware. Using public key anyone may modify anything, and you can still assure the content to be trustworthy. There no need to prove the Android not to be modified, it is just a bad idea, unnecessary restricting the user. Owner.
tag68 said:
For me SafetyNet is green using Magisk 12.0 as root solution, but that may change of course. But it would help for the battery.
Short rant about this topic: It is strange that the owner of a device can be forbidden to restrict the charging. You bought it, you should be able to do these things with it. Introducing SafetyNet is a bad idea by Google. Security should be made by algorithms, not by hardware. Using public key anyone may modify anything, and you can still assure the content to be trustworthy. There no need to prove the Android not to be modified, it is just a bad idea, unnecessary restricting the user. Owner.
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Well said
Thanks for the tip! I'll have it mind!
At the moment I don't feel like unlocking the bootloader because I'm planning to use the moto Mods and these can't be used with custom ROMs yet, and I have no use for root other than changing the work mode on Greenify but it already works well enough in No-Root mode, so for me there is no true benefit.
A good resource for lithium batteries are rc helicopter forums. Helis use speed controllers of many tens of amps, drain the batteries in minutes versus days to low levels and charge them at high speed. What reduces their life is heat, overcharging the voltage or over discharging the voltage. They do not age if left in a partial charge. You can let them sit for years unused and they will lose very little capacity. If you only run them at 70%cycle, they last about 3000 cycles.
Well, that was weird.
Phone at 9%, mophie mod at 100%. Put it on, barely used the phone (even took a nap). About an hour later, the mophie mod is at 50%, but the phone actually went down to 8%. Took off the mod and the phone went immediately to 4%. Ouch.
Mod normally works fine. It'll keep the phone at 80% for most of the day just fine. Not sure what was going on.