Database Develop

[01/11/2010] [Apple iPhone ROM] [beta] Development {0.01} for $1000

EDIT: I changed my mind, if someone provides me a working iphone ROM for the touch pro 2, I'll give you $1000. If you want details of what I want, I'll give them but it would require the ability to sync with itunes, all sprint cdma radios to work, wifi, bluetooth, 3g, usb, internet tethering, text messaging, basically, a 99% working ROM. I know the money isn't much but that's about how much an iphone would be worth to me.
please pass this on to your favorite developer/programmer
It seems like there are many different ROM's, or OS's that can be modified to run on these tiny little computers. So why not the apple iphone OS? Seems like hardware wise we would be in heaven with such a great keyboard to the most popular and succesful phone ever. Have any of the talented programmers here attempted it? i would easily pay $50 ore even more for it, as I'm sure many, many other people would. i am certain that there is a programmer out there with access to the iphone source code and can write in the drivers for the hardware. i realize it would be illegal and copyright infrigement but the person that could do it would be infamous and be offered a sweet, cushy programming job at a huge corporation. which of you programmers are currently in a job they don't like or even unemployed? this would be your opportunity to cross the invisible barrier and make double, triple, or even 100X your current salary. think about it.
PS-other than the amazing talents that you would be displaying by doing this, even if you don't become famous, I'm still going to show you how to make money off this. Immediately before releasing the program to the public, get as much money as you can to buy, borrow, cheat, steal, or using whatever means necessary and get every single touch pro 2 phone you can find. i literally mean, 10000+ of them if possible. As soon as the program is released, the word will get out, and within weeks the cost of getting a touch pro 2 on the black market will be upwards of $600-$800, maybe even more. an iphone with a keyboard...

ChristopherJLee said:
please pass this on to your favorite developer/programmer
It seems like there are many different ROM's, or OS's that can be modified to run on these tiny little computers. So why not the apple iphone OS? Seems like hardware wise we would be in heaven with such a great keyboard to the most popular and succesful phone ever. Have any of the talented programmers here attempted it? i would easily pay $50 ore even more for it, as I'm sure many, many other people would. i am certain that there is a programmer out there with access to the iphone source code and can write in the drivers for the hardware. i realize it would be illegal and copyright infrigement but the person that could do it would be infamous and be offered a sweet, cushy programming job at a huge corporation. which of you programmers are currently in a job they don't like or even unemployed? this would be your opportunity to cross the invisible barrier and make double, triple, or even 100X your current salary. think about it.
PS-other than the amazing talents that you would be displaying by doing this, even if you don't become famous, I'm still going to show you how to make money off this. Immediately before releasing the program to the public, get as much money as you can to buy, borrow, cheat, steal, or using whatever means necessary and get every single touch pro 2 phone you can find. i literally mean, 10000+ of them if possible. As soon as the program is released, the word will get out, and within weeks the cost of getting a touch pro 2 on the black market will be upwards of $600-$800, maybe even more. an iphone with a keyboard...
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There are sooooo many reasons this can't and won't happen. Where shall I start? The vastly different screen resolution? The completely different hardware which has absolutely no support? The bootloader? Or maybe the fact it's closed source, and thus can't easily (if at all) be modified to the point where it runs on our devices? (There probably isn't even a HAL, or only a minimal one at best). Maybe the fact that there would be lawsuits up the a** from Apple if this ever happened, not 6-digit salaries and job opportunities. I personally would rather see developers devoting time to creating a fully, working port of Linux than a half-a**ed iPhone OS port which doesn't boot into a GUI or even a console (if it boots at all), and doesn't even support basic elements of iPhone OS like multi-touch and synchronization. This idea has been suggested over the years quite a few times, and it's never gotten anywhere because there are so many things working against it.
I'm not necessarily against such a thing (if it were to be fully completed) but all I'm saying is that there is already a huge shortage of talented developers who can port operating systems, and we don't need to be wasting their talents and efforts on a wild goose chase of a port, such as this proposed project. Even if the port is completely finished, there are fundamental problems such as lack of multi-touch, OS updates having to be adapted each release, the issue of all apps being the wrong resolution while no scaling mechanism is built into the OS (unlike android), and many other reasons I could literally go on listing all day. Besides, your whole scenario of a port is flawed itself. I think I can safely say that nobody on this forum has access to the iPhone's full source. I think I can also safely say that the price of a black-market TP2 probably wouldn't go up that much if at all, since you can still buy them from HTC or any other retailer (often for dirt cheap with a commitment), and any black market TP2 would have to be cheap enough to be somewhat competitive. Your scenario also relies on the assumption that Apple won't throw their entire legal team at this forum and the developers responsible. Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is at best a pipe-dream, and simply won't happen for a myriad of reasons. If you want the iPhone OS, buy an iPhone or get the SDK and use the emulator included, or if you want the look of the iPhone on your TP2, look at iPhone today and S2U2.

just wondering are there any iphone users who want winmo on their device

DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
I'm not necessarily against such a thing (if it were to be fully completed) but all I'm saying is that there is already a huge shortage of talented developers who can port operating systems, and we don't need to be wasting their talents and efforts on a wild goose chase of a port, such as this proposed project.
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I disagree, the shortage is not from lack of talented developers who can port operating systems, it's that some of the talented developers don't have the motivation to do it. i'm hoping that my post will spur some of the ones dreaming about truly making it big
DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
Even if the port is completely finished, there are fundamental problems such as lack of multi-touch, OS updates having to be adapted each release, the issue of all apps being the wrong resolution while no scaling mechanism is built into the OS (unlike android), and many other reasons I could literally go on listing all day.
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I agree there would be issues but like all software, it can be modified. for example, up-scaling could run as a default for the entire system as there would be no need to have the iphone running 800 x 480, it could be the default iphone resolution
DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
Besides, your whole scenario of a port is flawed itself. I think I can safely say that nobody on this forum has access to the iPhone's full source. I think I can also safely say that the price of a black-market TP2 probably wouldn't go up that much if at all, since you can still buy them from HTC or any other retailer (often for dirt cheap with a commitment), and any black market TP2 would have to be cheap enough to be somewhat competitive.
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You're probably right, no one on this forum has access but someone's friend of a friend that works at apple or is a consultant does. Yes, you can buy touch pro 2's on the internet but there's a limited supply. in april of 2009 it was reported 37 million iphones/ipod touches have been sold. this is over a 3 year period. in a 2 day period 270,000 iphones were sold. are there even 270,000 touch pro 2 users? how many of us have the money and the means to end our contract and pay for an iphone? how many of us simply don't do it because of the cost and/or cons of using att or a phone with no keyboard? there aren't enough touch pro 2's in existance

DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
Your scenario also relies on the assumption that Apple won't throw their entire legal team at this forum and the developers responsible. Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is at best a pipe-dream, and simply won't happen for a myriad of reasons. If you want the iPhone OS, buy an iPhone or get the SDK and use the emulator included, or if you want the look of the iPhone on your TP2, look at iPhone today and S2U2.
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I agree that Apple would do all of this, worldwide fame and recognition of your talents. Surely someone would face the consequences than stay nameless in a basement somewhere for the rest of their life. Someone is reading this that can and will do it because it is achievable.

aZzz.bZzz said:
just wondering are there any iphone users who want winmo on their device
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yes please...........oh sorry i was only joking

apple don't like it.......
when people clone or try to copy there OS
they have and will come down on us like a ton of bricks
this is a reason why people don't try it.

I thought the interwebs is soo vast far and wide.
But I just cant seem to hide from these Iphone crap...

Dumb idea...
As a developer, there is no way in h*ll I would try this. First off, Apple would rain fire and brimstone down on top of you. Apple is one of the most controlling and paranoid companies on the planet. XDA would get shutdown almost immediately just for being associated with it.
Besides, I like not being a sheep. So why would I want to imitate one? Let the sheeple be happy with their device. I'll be happy with mine.

i'll happily be a sheeple
data that's relevant to you individually? why aren't any other phones doing this exact thing as well? it's been 3 years since the iphone came out, surely someone outside of apple realizes the benefits of the iphone and should be building it into wm6 or 7, and android. a phone that actually uses your current location to suggest food and things that you can enjoy that you would otherwise miss the opportunity or waste your time looking for? the games, the programs, the applications, are all built well and perform well because of the os that is used. the iphone os, interface, all of it, is genius. there are things to improve, but let someone crack it and then the rest of us will come up with improvements

I'll port this over if you can get me the iPhone OS source code. I'm thinking you'll run into trouble though, because it's not publicly available
Please read up on development before making such an outlandish request

this thread is done
as if we let it happen here we will be contacted by apple
and they don't like it when people play with there toys.
thread closed

Kogan Intentionally Violating the GPL

I would like to bring to the attention of the community, and seek your help with respect to, Australian online reseller Kogan, who I recently discovered are knowingly and intentionally infringing on the copyrights of many by copying and commercially distributing GPL'd software on a variety of Android devices and refusing to comply with their licenses, by not providing the source-code to product owners. The software in question includes both the Linux kernel and U-Boot, but most likely other software too.
I have of course contacted Kogan support and was responded to by a staff member; who I believe is their job to illegally dismiss and mislead customers who make legitimate legal requests for GPL'd source-code and the such. I have thus far endured a lengthy exchange from August 24th, 2013, up until my most recent message to Kogan support member Arun, on October 21st, 2013. I suspect it is Arun's job to dismiss GPL requests and the such because during this two month period, a friend of mine also purchased a different Kogan branded Android product and subsequently requested the source code; only to receive near identical responses from none other than Arun.
Devices that we (myself and my friend) personally bought from Kogan and have requested (and have been denied) source-code for include:
Dual-core Kogan Agora Smartphone - http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/agora-50-dual-core-smartphone/
Entering the exciting world of Android handsets has never been easier or more affordable than right now with Kogan’s Agora Smartphone.
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42" Agora Smart 3D LED TV (Full HD) - http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/42-agora-smart-3d-led-tv-full-hd/
Packed full of features and running the powerful Android 4.2 (Jelly Bean), you will soon be accessing the newest video content, browsing the internet, checking your Facebook, posting to Twitter, managing your emails and making use of the rapidly expanding range of Android apps and games, all of which are easily accessible via the Google Play store.
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47" Agora Smart 3D LED TV (Full HD) - http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/42-agora-smart-3d-led-tv-full-hd/
Packed full of features and running the powerful Android 4.2 (Jelly Bean), you will soon be accessing the newest video content, browsing the internet, checking your Facebook, posting to Twitter, managing your emails and making use of the rapidly expanding range of Android apps and games, all of which are easily accessible via the Google Play store.
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I believe the following are also a list of infringing devices:
Agora HD Smartphone - http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/agora-50-quad-core-smartphone/
Packed with a powerful 1.2GHz Quad Core processor, a dazzling 1280×720 IPS screen, high quality 8MP rear camera and running Android 4.2.2 (Jelly Bean), this smartphone is unbelievable value!
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32" Agora Smart LED TV (HD) - http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/32-agora-dual-core-smart-led-tv/
Featuring High Definition 720p for HD Broadcasts and HDMI devices, while supporting crystal clear HD 720p playback via built-in Agora Smart TV.
Using Android 4.2 (Jelly Bean) you can access video content, browse the internet, check up on your friends via Facebook, keep up to date on Twitter, manage your emails, watch the latest trending videos on YouTube and make use of an ever expanding variety of Android apps and games, which are all easily accessible via the Google Play store.
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55" Agora Smart 3D LED TV (Full HD) - http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/55-agora-smart-3d-led-tv-full-hd/
Packed full of features and running the powerful Android 4.2 (Jelly Bean), you will soon be accessing the newest video content, browsing the internet, checking your Facebook, posting to Twitter, managing your emails and making use of the rapidly expanding range of Android apps and games, all of which are easily accessible via the Google Play store.
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Agora Smart TV Quad Core HDMI Dongle - http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/agora-smart-tv-quad-core-hdmi-dongle/
There is always something great on TV with the Agora Smart TV HDMI Dongle.
Plug it into the back of the television, complete the 3-step set-up and be greeted by a menu that will revolutionize how you spend your time on the couch.
Android Operating System delivers never-ending possibilities.
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Agora Mini 8" Dual Core Tablet (8GB) - http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/agora-mini-8-dual-core-tablet-8gb/
The Kogan Agora Mini 8” Dual Core Tablet PC is perfect for anyone who wants to experience Android on a bright and responsive multi-touch screen with illuminated soft-keys, while maintaining the portability thousands of happy customers have loved in the Kogan Agora Tablet Series.
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Agora Mini 8" Dual Core Tablet (16GB) - http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/agora-mini-8-dual-core-tablet-16gb/
The Kogan Agora Mini 8” Dual Core Tablet PC is perfect for anyone who wants to experience Android on a bright and responsive multi-touch screen with illuminated soft-keys, while maintaining the portability thousands of happy customers have loved in the Kogan Agora Tablet Series.
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Agora 10" Dual Core Tablet (8GB) - http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/agora-10-dual-core-tablet-8gb/
The Kogan Agora 10” Dual Core Tablet PC is perfect for anyone who wants to experience Android on a large, bright, and responsive multi-touch screen with illuminated soft-keys, while maintaining the portability thousands of happy customers have loved in the Kogan Agora Tablet Series.
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Agora 10" Dual Core Tablet (16GB) - http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/agora-10-dual-core-tablet-16gb/
The Kogan Agora 10” Dual Core Tablet PC is perfect for anyone who wants to experience Android on a large, bright, and responsive multi-touch screen with illuminated soft-keys, while maintaining the portability thousands of happy customers have loved in the Kogan Agora Tablet Series.
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Yes, that's a lot of infringing devices! These are only the Android-running devices. I suspect their other TVs, their routers, and perhaps other embedded devices are also running Linux and other GPL'd software.
I am seeking the community's help in rectifying this situation. Kogan must provide the source-code to owners' of the above products upon the owner's request. In fact they must (and are definitely not in all cases), distribute the GPL license with these products along with a written offer provide (or instructions to obtain) the source-code for the GPL'd software running on these devices. As such, I would like every one of you to blog, video blog, write about, yell about, or otherwise make publicly known, that Kogan are knowingly and intentionally violating these licenses.
If by the off chance you are a contributor to the mainline Linux kernel, you can also send Kogan a legal complaint that they are infringing on your copyright. If you are a Linux contributor and willing to help, please do not hesitate to contact me.
If you are the owner of one of the products mentioned above, please contact Kogan support and request the source-code for the device(s) you own. Feel free to include in your contact messages the GPLv2 license (as it pertains to the Linux kernel).
Exchange with Kogan
Below are a few excerpts of my lengthy exchange with Kogan support staff member, Arun. Please excuse the typos, when I get frustrated and offended (yes as developer I find this offensive) I find it very difficult to write!
Myself said:
Hi Arun,
Sorry, I'd did try to be explicit in my request, but it does look as though you may have misinterpreted me.
I am after the source code for any open source software that runs on the the Kogan Agora 47 (and the Kogan Agora Smartphone as well actually) specifically as these are both products I've purchased from Kogan. What you've linked to is the source-code for the Android Open Source Project (AOSP) which is used as a basis for Android manufacturers. On it's own AOSP will not run on third-party devices. Every device is unique and has its own modifications to Android. Some of this software is licensed under the GPL[1] of which manufacturers (and resellers) are legally required to make available to owners of devices running the software.
I don't know precisely what GPL (or LGPL) licensed software runs on my Android TV (KALED473DSMTZA) and my Android phone (KHPHN05ANDA) because the licenses weren't included with the devices (which is actually a violation of the licenses). However, I do know that at minimum they both run a modified version of the Linux kernel, which is a core component of Android and licensed under GPL. I'd be inclined to think that the bootloaders running on the device are also derivatives of GPL licensed source code. I haven't bothered investigating on my own because I would have assumed you at Kogan already has access to this information and would be able to provide it to me.
As such I'm requesting the source code and a list of open-source software that run on the following devices that I own and operate:
- KALED473DSMTZA: 47 inch Android Smart TV
- KHPHN05ANDA: 5 inch Android Dual-Sim Smartphone
I do understand that any potential GPL (or other open source license) violations may be accidental on Kogan's behalf. I do also understand that Kogan works with Chinese manufacturers to provide these products and may need to chase this up with individual manufacturers. However, if this is going to take some time I would appreciate it if you could provide me with regular updates so that I can ensure that you're trying to address this. Otherwise I will need to report any violations of licenses to their respective copyright holders (and GPL Violations[2]) whom, hopefully it wouldn't come to this, may need follow up with legal action.
Thanks,
Benjamin Dobell
[1] GPL - http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.htmlhttp://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html
[2] GPL Violations - http://gpl-violations.org/http://gpl-violations.org/
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Arun claims:
Arun said:
We have thoroughly investigated this issue of GPL.
Now as we understand we have not made any changes to the Kernel source code.
Thus we are not required to publish or share anything and are fully complaint to GPL.
We have added the interface on top and are covered by Android licensing which is licensed under Apache 2.0.
http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.html
We don't need to give source code for the product, as we are entitled to modify Android base system and not release those changes to customers.
Android source is 100% available for everyone to download from Google.
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Arun said:
I have already explained, the Kernel is not changed and it is available for you to download online.
Drivers have been added to support the hardware and we have built an interface that goes over the top of Android, just a skin/theme.
We are not required to publish or share this information.
We are not violating any license agreement and not intending to do so.
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This is despite the fact that I had explicitly pointed out, and explained, the exact relevant portions of the GPLv2. The GPLv2 makes it very clear that the exact source code for each software release distributed to customers/consumers must be made available, which is entirely irrespective of whether the source-code is actually modified. This is because simply stating an embedded device runs Linux kernel is entirely ambiguous/useless; as there are plethora of versions, variants and even forks that one could be referring to. GPL violations FAQ (http://gpl-violations.org/faq/sourcecode-faq.html) summarise this requirement nicely:
What version of the source code do I have to release?
For each and every version of the executable program, you have to release the precisely corresponding version of the complete corresponding source code.
So if you have distributed ten different versions of firmware for an embedded product, and this firmware contains GPL licensed software, then you need to release ten different source code packages, each one corresponding for each executable version.
Please note that if you chose GPL Option 3b (rather than 3a), then the obligation only lasts for three years. This means that you do not have to provide source code for any executable code that was last distributed more than three years ago.
Please also keep in mind that both distribution on physical storage medium and distribution via data networks such as the Internet count as distribution.
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Of course, the "unmodified Linux kernel" argument, despite being entirely wrong, is also a complete and utter lie on Kogan's behalf. The mainline Linux Git repository most certainly does not include the necessary source-code and install scripts to build and install a version of the Linux kernel that would run on any of Kogan's Android devices.
NOTE: Arun is completely correct with respect to any modifications to the Apache 2.0 licensed components of Android; Kogan are under no obligation to release them. Which is why at no stage did I ask for the source-code to this software. This is simply Kogan intentionally trying to confuse matters in order to avoid their obligations.

Kogan seems to be a smaller player, but on Android Platform, there are bigger players who are violating the GPL intentionally.
Micromax, Karbonn and Celkon are 3 brands which manufacture budget phones in India. Micromax is a very popular brand and it is currently the top selling phone company in India provided they sell phones at very cheap prices encouraging everyone to purchase them. The market is huge and Micromax would no more translate to a Local brand. The phones are being reviewed on Gsmarena and Youtube too making them more and more popular.
http://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?sQuickSearch=yes&sName=micromax
Micromax was making budget phones in India based on Chinese OS earlier. Most of their phones were rebranded Chinese phones and few of them still are. They made a move to Android, cutting down the Software Development cost for obvious reasons and reducing the price of the device. There have been numerous petitions and requests for source releases but none have been paid off so far. We all know that most of the Android AOSP code is not released, but all the major players atleast release the kernel sources, which is not the case for these brands. I have contacted them numerous times, but they have blindly refused to do anything about it stating that GPL doesn't exists and is not enforced in India.
Myself being a Recognized Developer and Contributer from India, I have been receiving a lot of PMs from other forum members asking me if there is a way to use the generic kernel source code and port it to the device, which I regard would be a lot painful and definitely not worth the effort.
Most manufacturers only know how to sell their phones, but they give a damn about the Software crime that they are committing. I haven't contributed to mainstream kernel myself and I could imagine how frustrated could one be when their intellectual property is shamelessly stolen.

dhiru1602 said:
Kogan seems to be a smaller player, but on Android Platform, there are bigger players who are violating the GPL intentionally.
Micromax, Karbonn and Celkon are 3 brands which manufacture budget phones in India. Micromax is a very popular brand and it is currently the top selling phone company in India provided they sell phones at very cheap prices encouraging everyone to purchase them. The market is huge and Micromax would no more translate to a Local brand. The phones are being reviewed on Gsmarena and Youtube too making them more and more popular.
http://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?sQuickSearch=yes&sName=micromax
Micromax was making budget phones in India based on Chinese OS earlier. Most of their phones were rebranded Chinese phones and few of them still are. They made a move to Android, cutting down the Software Development cost for obvious reasons and reducing the price of the device. There have been numerous petitions and requests for source releases but none have been paid off so far. We all know that most of the Android AOSP code is not released, but all the major players atleast release the kernel sources, which is not the case for these brands. I have contacted them numerous times, but they have blindly refused to do anything about it stating that GPL doesn't exists and is not enforced in India.
Myself being a Recognized Developer and Contributer from India, I have been receiving a lot of PMs from other forum members asking me if there is a way to use the generic kernel source code and port it to the device, which I regard would be a lot painful and definitely not worth the effort.
Most manufacturers only know how to sell their phones, but they give a damn about the Software crime that they are committing. I haven't contributed to mainstream kernel myself and I could imagine how frustrated could one be when their intellectual property is shamelessly stolen.
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Yea Micromax definitely refuses to comply with the GPL. I've only dealt with a couple of Micromax devices on request from users to build CWMR for them and then asked to build CM* for them and various other mods. Which w/o kernel src, it makes things alot more difficult, if not impossible. I just ended up declining to work on the devices.
Huawei and ZTE dont fully comply with the GPL on all their devices either. They like to only release src for a few devices and we dont want to get into their awful coding. lol

PlayfulGod said:
Yea Micromax definitely refuses to comply with the GPL. I've only dealt with a couple of Micromax devices on request from users to build CWMR for them and then asked to build CM* for them and various other mods. Which w/o kernel src, it makes things alot more difficult, if not impossible. I just ended up declining to work on the devices.
Huawei and ZTE dont fully comply with the GPL on all their devices either. They like to only release src for a few devices and we dont want to get into their awful coding. lol
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It is unfortunate but also true that they are all doing it. For instance, Vizio gave me answers, regarding the Co-Star, that are almost verbatim what OP got from Kogan: "no they are not obligated to release anything; if I want to see their kernel I can ask Google for the GTV source code, etc."

cyansmoker said:
It is unfortunate but also true that they are all doing it. For instance, Vizio gave me answers, regarding the Co-Star, that are almost verbatim what OP got from Kogan: "no they are not obligated to release anything; if I want to see their kernel I can ask Google for the GTV source code, etc."
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Dont know to take their answers as just being defiant or ignorant. lol
How do they think they are except from complying to the GPL for using/modifying the kernel src in which we all know they have to do to get it to work with their devices. lol
My vote is ignorance on behalf of the human relations depts, which dont have a clue wtf they are even talking about.

@Benjamin Dobell
How is progress going? I just saw this in an article on ausdroid
As utterly ridiculous this is, being a supposedly 100% google kernel (which it 100% can't be to run on this hardware etc) and how you are correct, there are big violators out there and frankly the "GPL" is nothing. It is kind of like threatening someone with no intent of hurting them: GPL are not going to do much. When HTC release broken kernel sources, 80 days after official OTA is out (when the new base is already out) people are just happy they release it. And while HTC, Samsung, Sony etc are legally supposed to provide kernel source, the main reason imo they release is to keep this xda/hacking community happy. If HTC didn't release kernel sources anymore, most of the community would leave the HTC devices, and buy a samsung or something. It might even make the news, so HTC would get bad publicity.
What does Kogan care, they are selling very small volumes of these phones compared with the big guns, and there are even less people interested in the sources. While I agree that you are correct and Kogan need to release source, not much can be done
Just my 2 cents

Good catch on the Kogan issue, but it will be hard to make a difference by going it alone. Best if you can get friendly with some journalists, perhaps the APC Mag guys or whatever to build up some buzz. Once you have someone interested you can fan the flames from there, to get the word out. You'll probably be surprised what they are willing to run on a slow news day As an idea, if you look at a number of the Kogan stories running in the news recently you might also find some interested journos.
BTW, I suspect Kogan could fix this quite easily by requesting that their Chinese suppliers also supply the kernel source along with the hardware/software deliverables. Might be hard to do that retrospectively but they should do that for all future devices.

Post this on the gpl-violations mailing list.
http://lists.gpl-violations.org/mailman/listinfo/legal/
It wouldn't be the first Android violator they've dealt with this year.

Kogan and the GPL http://ausdroid.net/2013/11/04/kogan-and-the-gpl/?utm_source=ausdroidnetapp
Kogan have been emailed twice re this but haven't responded at all. Hopefully this Might make them get their butts into gear.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

LLStarks said:
Post this on the gpl-violations mailing list.
http://lists.gpl-violations.org/mailman/listinfo/legal/
It wouldn't be the first Android violator they've dealt with this year.
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Just out of interest how many times has a violator been dealt with?
MontAlbert said:
Kogan and the GPL http://ausdroid.net/2013/11/04/kogan-and-the-gpl/?utm_source=ausdroidnetapp
Kogan have been emailed twice re this but haven't responded at all. Hopefully this Might make them get their butts into gear.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
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Click to collapse
If it makes it to sites other than ausdroid and portrays Kogan in a bad light... yeah I do see it evoking change. To get rid of their bad image if they want to keep selling phones

Most violators tend to comply when confronted by GPL organizations like the Software Freedom Conservancy and Free Software Foundation. Samsung partnered with the SFC recently to peacefully come into compliance over their exfat implementation which used a lot of GPL-licensed Linux filesystem code. Going to court is very rare.
And yes, most of these violations are discussed in the mailing list by people responsible for enforcement. Armijn Hemel and Brad Kuhn of the SFC especially.
I'd be willing to bet that Kogan is also using a GPL-licensed Busybox along with their Linux kernel.

LLStarks said:
Most violators tend to comply when confronted by GPL organizations like the Software Freedom Conservancy and Free Software Foundation. Samsung partnered with the SFC recently to peacefully come into compliance over their exfat implementation which used a lot of GPL-licensed Linux filesystem code. Going to court is very rare.
And yes, most of these violations are discussed in the mailing list by people responsible for enforcement. Armijn Hemel and Brad Kuhn of the SFC especially.
I'd be willing to bet that Kogan is also using a GPL-licensed Busybox along with their Linux kernel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am wondering now, does Kogan even make their phones or is it another company that Kogan pays and puts their name on it? In that case, kogan representatives would have no clue at all
I guess the exfat thing worked, hopefully Kogan will be compliant

Doesn't really matter. Kogan is distributing binaries that contain GPL code. If there's a contracted hardware/software manufacturer involved they're also responsible but Kogan still has to do a lot on their end. They must be having one of those "what the hell are we even doing moments" since they control so little of the process behind their business model.
If Kogan is just putting their name on it, they have to ask that manufacturer (which I assume is foreign) to provide the source for the software involved. Out of matters of sheer practicality and perceived language barriers, Kogan would then share these sources with the English-speaking world. The manufacturer could do this themselves, but whatever.

Quick update for those interested.
Re: http://www.zdnet.com/kogan-to-comply-with-gpl-requirements-for-android-source-7000022847/
1. Kogan have not contacted me at all to indicate that they intend to resolve their GPL infringement.
2. Kogan claimed they have only had one request for source code; this is completely false. As I mentioned in my original post, at least both myself and my friend have requested the source code for various devices. Since then I have also been contacted by a few others that requested the source code also.
3. Kogan claimed that I was requesting source-code for a brand new phone. Which they seem to be using as an excuse for why the source is not yet available. This is completely false, I actually requested the source-code for Dual-Core Kogan Agora phone. Which is the previous generation of Kogan Agora (compared to the Quad core model) and has been available for almost 12 months. In addition to this, I also requested the source-code for a Kogan Agora TV. This particular model of Android TV has only been available for around 3-4 months, I believe. However, other Kogan Android TVs have been available for around 6 months.
Re: Sending Kogan a notice of copyright infringement; still working on getting that sorted.

any update on this?

Hey Ben, have you heard any further from Kogan? I'm keen to get my hands on the gpl stuff for my 55" Agora (nee. Konka ) SmartTV but there seems to have been no movement besides an attempt by Kogan to quell any negative publicity over 6 weeks ago... despite them having shipped modified firmware on TVs that hit the country mid - December. ...

adr6ian said:
Hey Ben, have you heard any further from Kogan? I'm keen to get my hands on the gpl stuff for my 55" Agora (nee. Konka ) SmartTV but there seems to have been no movement besides an attempt by Kogan to quell any negative publicity over 6 weeks ago... despite them having shipped modified firmware on TVs that hit the country mid - December. ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Funny they lied their butts off in that article they did about it wrt who asked for it, how many asked for it and what they asked for. Not once did they reply to any of my emails from Ausdroid. We wanted to give them a chance to put their story in print but maybe I upset them ?
Ben did receive the source code. Not sure how public kogan have made this. Ie. Can anyone find it of their website or do they need to request it and then will get a private link?
I am yet to hear back from him as to whether the source actually works and builds the kernel correctly.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

MontAlbert said:
Funny they lied their butts off in that article they did about it wrt who asked for it, how many asked for it and what they asked for. Not once did they reply to any of my emails from Ausdroid. We wanted to give them a chance to put their story in print but maybe I upset them ?
Ben did receive the source code. Not sure how public kogan have made this. Ie. Can anyone find it of their website or do they need to request it and then will get a private link?
I am yet to hear back from him as to whether the source actually works and builds the kernel correctly.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
here's their public site
http://www.kogan.com/au/

MameTozhio said:
here's their public site
http://www.kogan.com/au/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And? So what? Everyone knows their public site. Where is the link to the source on their site?
Good on them for coming up with the source. I for one doubted they'd be able to get it. Chinese manufacturers tend to not give up the source often, if ever. But it shouldn't be hard to find if someone wants it.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

My Google foo is failing me, because I can't unearth a publicly linked version... closest I can find is the X 8000 series stuff on a Chinese forum, but the X 8000 is different enough from the v712 series based on specs that without the OEM firmware I'm not game to dabble with..
All I really want is to re enable the KKMULTISCR service that isn't active in the Kogan build but is present in all other re badged konka units such as the TCL and HiSense units and the Direct Sale v712 in NZ...
MontAlbert, if you have any suggestion feel free to PM me
I've mailed Kogan and formally requested the source, but I suspect I'll get a run around... maybe I'm cynical but
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

OnePlus terminating dev seeding program

As title says, OnePlus will no longer provide devices for developers. Info here: https://twitter.com/topjohnwu/status/1067440574729457664

justibasa said:
As title says, OnePlus will no longer provide devices for developers. Info here: https://twitter.com/topjohnwu/status/1067440574729457664
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Better send devices to reviewers

justibasa said:
As title says, OnePlus will no longer provide devices for developers. Info here: https://twitter.com/topjohnwu/status/1067440574729457664
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Time to find a new Dev friendly company. OP gonna f themselves with this move. The only reason they are so popular is because of the devs.

So .. we are mad because a company won't give you free stuff? This won't be a popular post, but it's true 99% of the people that use this phone will never care about any development. It would benefit the company to give the free phones to reviewers (where sales can be made) Even if everyone on this forum and the one plus forum didnt buy the device...it woukdnt pjase rhem one bit. #quethehate

They are killing the enthusiastic culture for money.

suzook said:
Time to find a new Dev friendly company. OP gonna f themselves with this move. The only reason they are so popular is because of the devs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Too bad there are not many choices out there compared to a few years ago.
I hope I'm wrong here,but, I could see this creeping towards locked bootloaders if OnePlus' data indicates the overwhelming majority of users run a stock/unrooted phone.
Certainly,the partnership with T-Mobile is paying off, I could see this expanding to more carriers & if the price is right,OnePlus would drop aftermarket development like a bad habit....

This is the dead for Oneplus. We will see no custom rom on 6t. Look at 6 thread, there are just 4 or 5 roms. Oneplus hype is over. I give return now my 6t. The 5t was the last with good custom rom support.

AnoopKumar said:
They are killing the enthusiastic culture for money.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Assuming 20 dev devices sent out, there's likely over the double amount of bought devices because of the devs. Seems like for such a small investment in the dev community should be worth it? Hell, the negative PR due to ending the program should cost more.

jkeith1 said:
So .. we are mad because a company won't give you free stuff? This won't be a popular post, but it's true 99% of the people that use this phone will never care about any development. It would benefit the company to give the free phones to reviewers (where sales can be made) Even if everyone on this forum and the one plus forum didnt buy the device...it woukdnt pjase rhem one bit. #quethehate
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They're not giving you (us) free stuff. They were giving very well established developers free phones. They had the list of developers posted some where. It was a very short list (under 50 world wide). It's a 0.002% kind of numbers they were giving out. (Based on the OP6 selling 1 million phones in the first month. We'll say they sold 2 million total since then). They're definitely giving out many more review phones. And overall it's a drop in the bucket compared to other advertising spending.
A good break down of this is the Linus Tech Tips video on computer hardware rebranding. He does a very basic break down of the costs of launching new hardware. And how much of a return they get by getting reviewers to review old hardware with a new name. It's not exactly the same as here. But there are users out there who purchase a phone based on development.
I'm only one person, and this is purely anecdotal, but the only reason I even considered this phone was due OnePlus previous history of being very developer friendly. Even with the half off deal through T-Mobile, I was still on the fence about getting this over a Pixel. I'll evaluate how this goes over the next year and if anything, I'll swap from a 2-3 year phone user to only using this phone for a year and go pick up the Pixel 4 next year.

hartleyshc said:
They're not giving you (us) free stuff. They were giving very well established developers free phones. They had the list of developers posted some where. It was a very short list (under 50 world wide). It's a 0.002% kind of numbers they were giving out. (Based on the OP6 selling 1 million phones in the first month. We'll say they sold 2 million total since then). They're definitely giving out many more review phones. And overall it's a drop in the bucket compared to other advertising revenues.
A good break down of this is the Linus Tech Tips video on computer hardware rebranding. He does a very basic break down of the costs of launching new hardware. And how much of a return they get by getting reviewers to review old hardware with a new name. It's not exactly the same as here. But there are users out there who purchase a phone based on development.
I'm only one person, and this is purely anecdotal, but the only reason I even considered this phone was due OnePlus previous history of being very developer friendly. Even with the half off deal through T-Mobile, I was still on the fence about getting this over a Pixel. I'll evaluate how this goes over the next year and if anything, I'll swap from a 2-3 year phone user to only using this phone for a year and go pick up the Pixel 4 next year.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I specifically use OP because I can mess with it, root it, change things. A month after the Galaxy phones come out, they drop to nearly what OP sells them for new. If I can't root my phone, why would I settle for the corners that OP cuts over a better - mostly everything - on a Samsung or Pixel? No reason in my mind.

hartleyshc said:
They're not giving you (us) free stuff. They were giving very well established developers free phones. They had the list of developers posted some where. It was a very short list (under 50 world wide). It's a 0.002% kind of numbers they were giving out. (Based on the OP6 selling 1 million phones in the first month. We'll say they sold 2 million total since then). They're definitely giving out many more review phones. And overall it's a drop in the bucket compared to other advertising spending.
A good break down of this is the Linus Tech Tips video on computer hardware rebranding. He does a very basic break down of the costs of launching new hardware. And how much of a return they get by getting reviewers to review old hardware with a new name. It's not exactly the same as here. But there are users out there who purchase a phone based on development.
I'm only one person, and this is purely anecdotal, but the only reason I even considered this phone was due OnePlus previous history of being very developer friendly. Even with the half off deal through T-Mobile, I was still on the fence about getting this over a Pixel. I'll evaluate how this goes over the next year and if anything, I'll swap from a 2-3 year phone user to only using this phone for a year and go pick up the Pixel 4 next year.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fair enough, good post.

SpectraFun said:
This is the dead for Oneplus. We will see no custom rom on 6t. Look at 6 thread, there are just 4 or 5 roms. Oneplus hype is over. I give return now my 6t. The 5t was the last with good custom rom support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not to be rude but you seem to be posting very negative comments about custom roms and developers for the 6t. If you don't like the phone, return it. And as I've stated elsewhere, developers have been busting their butts trying to get twrp up and running. Which as of yesterday is now available. I personally don't see custom roms coming out until a permanent twrp was available. Now that that is, I'm sure there will be roms coming out in relatively short time. Personally I find your negative comments insulting to developers. Again if you are unhappy with the device then return it, no one's stopping you. I'm not trying to pick on you, I just find it frustrating and again demeaning to all the hard work that devs have been putting into making this phone available to use custom roms on. Rant done.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using XDA-Developers Legacy app

ozzmanj1 said:
Not to be rude but you seem to be posting very negative comments about custom roms and developers for the 6t. If you don't like the phone, return it. And as I've stated elsewhere, developers have been busting their butts trying to get twrp up and running. Which as of yesterday is now available. I personally don't see custom roms coming out until a permanent twrp was available. Now that that is, I'm sure there will be roms coming out in relatively short time. Personally I find your negative comments insulting to developers. Again if you are unhappy with the device then return it, no one's stopping you. I'm not trying to pick on you, I just find it frustrating and again demeaning to all the hard work that devs have been putting into making this phone available to use custom roms on. Rant done.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using XDA-Developers Legacy app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No point to waste your time man it's just another entitled user that thinks XDA is a place to make your phone cool not a developer forum.

ozzmanj1 said:
Not to be rude but you seem to be posting very negative comments about custom roms and developers for the 6t. If you don't like the phone, return it. And as I've stated elsewhere, developers have been busting their butts trying to get twrp up and running. Which as of yesterday is now available. I personally don't see custom roms coming out until a permanent twrp was available. Now that that is, I'm sure there will be roms coming out in relatively short time. Personally I find your negative comments insulting to developers. Again if you are unhappy with the device then return it, no one's stopping you. I'm not trying to pick on you, I just find it frustrating and again demeaning to all the hard work that devs have been putting into making this phone available to use custom roms on. Rant done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a lot nicer than I would have put it. Just didn't want to get banned. ??

Give it a year or so and the bootloaders will be unlockable.

I think a good amount of the posting is to "ruffle the feathers."
It's not like the ONLY people who develop a device are those that get a free device from the manufacturer.
If you want development on a phone that has flagship-like specs (good screen, latest snapdragon, above average camera) there isn't much selection in the USA. It's this or a Pixel or buy something abroad (e.g. Exynos based Galaxy). Otherwise your out of luck. As long as the bootloader remains easily unlocked and their devices are easily rooted I could care less.
Typical click-bait type of article with the expected response.

sssarg said:
Assuming 20 dev devices sent out, there's likely over the double amount of bought devices because of the devs. Seems like for such a small investment in the dev community should be worth it? Hell, the negative PR due to ending the program should cost more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The majority of their customers won't even understand what this means let alone care that OP stopped doing it. The impact it will have on their sales will be a rounding error. Yes, as a percentage of total units sold, OP likely has more customers that root/ROM vs companies like Samsung. However, it looks like they're trying to focus on the main part of the business and not deal with small things that don't drive significant sales. That puts a program like this on the chopping block.

I get why they might do this, however, the only reason I buy OnePlus devices is the development support. So if development dies, I don't buy anymore phones. We have multiple OP phones in the house. I bought the 5T and now the 6T before Lineage was out, sounds like I won't buy anymore devices until ROMs are available just to be certain. The problem with that is with the short development cycle by the time that happens OP maybe onto the next device...
Nosferatu. said:
It's not like the ONLY people who develop a device are those that get a free device from the manufacturer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a very valid point.

threatening to not buy devices because of lack of development is like spitting into a hurricane; no one will notice, and it wont matter one bit..
once any of the enthusiast companies start to get large sales volume, and smell corporate business, their willingness to help enthusiasts of any sort diminishes greatly..If google thought they could land more giant corporate accounts by locking down the pixel phones like samsung did, they would do it in a minute..follow the money is what all my friends tell me now a days, and they are right..
You can be as outraged as you want to over OP deciding to drop "free" anything to developers; its not going to effect any change of any sort, so you might as well save your outrage for something else..sooner or later, all bootloaders will be locked, and you wont have any better choices..

Did everyone see the update from OnePlus?
“Apologies, we weren’t as clear as we could have been. We’ve temporarily scaled back our developer program while we work out how to make it even better in the future. We’ll be updating the selection criteria and communication channels with developers in our seeding program for better co-operation. We will restart the program and select Devs based on the new criteria and will work on providing the best possible support to community development efforts for OnePlus devices.” – OnePlus Spokesperson
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Huawei lost access to Google tech. What now?

So, you probably have heard that Huawei is banned from Android or something along those lines. What does this mean for our device, you ask? We might actually be the ones who are less affected by all this, since we are "only" losing future updates (security patches might be affected). The p30 line is in this situation too, but all future devices are really screwed, since Huawei lost access to the Google Play Store and other aspects of collaboration between Google and OEMs. Going forward Huawei can only use the AOSP code, and nothing more (AOSP is really barebones compared to what OEMs get).
I started this thread as a hub of discussion and opinions on this event, so feel free to share your opinions, questions or concerns below.
Edit, direct quote from Reuters:
"Huawei will only be able to use the public version of Android and will not be able to get access to proprietary apps and services from Google," the source said.
Mod edit - Keep political discussion away from XDA. Thank you

To start, I'm worried that support for our phones is over. Unless they restart the bootloader unlocking code program, we are **** out of luck when it comes to manual updating, since Funky Huawei does not have codes either.

Lol maybe this will kick start them to unlock their bootloaders and provide full source code and drivers so it will work with any custom rom and open Gapps.
Unlikely but imagine how fun that would be :=

mikey_sk said:
Lol maybe this will kick start them to unlock their bootloaders and provide full source code and drivers so it will work with any custom rom and open Gapps.
Unlikely but imagine how fun that would be :=
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I envision about 4 scenarios, for meh to throw the phone in the garbage. Scenario one is no more updates, bootloader unlocks. Two is no updates nor bootloader unlocks. 3 is a rework of emui. 4. Is revoking Google play certification, plus the new emui doesn't have any app compatibility

Fernix_ said:
I envision about 4 scenarios, for meh to throw the phone in the garbage. Scenario one is no more updates, bootloader unlocks. Two is no updates nor bootloader unlocks. 3 is a rework of emui. 4. Is revoking Google play certification, plus the new emui doesn't have any app compatibility
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also drivers and kernel sources would be an absolute godsend, although we have openkirin

**** trumpet..lol. so we are left with only 2 choices? Samsung and Apple.. I can imagine trumpet will be eyeing next on other Chinese manufacturers too.

Fernix_ said:
So, you probably have heard that Huawei is banned from Android or something along those lines. What does this mean for our device, you ask? We might actually be the ones who are less affected by all this, since we are "only" losing future updates (security patches might be affected). The p30 line is in this situation too, but all future devices are really screwed, since Huawei lost access to the Google Play Store and other aspects of collaboration between Google and OEMs. Going forward Huawei can only use the AOSP code, and nothing more (AOSP is really barebones compared to what OEMs get).
I started this thread as a hub of discussion and opinions on this event, so feel free to share your opinions, questions or concerns below.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
source plz
---------- Post added at 11:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 PM ----------
demon2112 said:
source plz
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
anddd yeahhh aosp plzz haha

demon2112 said:
source plz
---------- Post added at 11:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 PM ----------
anddd yeahhh aosp plzz haha
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tweakers.net ?

demon2112 said:
source plz
---------- Post added at 11:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 PM ----------
anddd yeahhh aosp plzz haha
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Added a quote from Reuters (https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1SP0NB?__twitter_impression=true)

demon2112 said:
source plz
---------- Post added at 11:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 PM ----------
anddd yeahhh aosp plzz haha
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What it means by AOSP is that Huawei only has access to that code. It does not mean that we will be getting stock android at all (plus AOSP is really really barebones)

Alternative path that Huawei may choose - https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/14/18265646/huawei-operating-systems-android-windows-ban
We will end up with non-android basically

I'm more curious about the china retaliation on this....
regarding our current phone, I think huawei will re-open bootloader unlock program to ignite the development.

Gee, when I mentioned that this was a worry a few months ago, I was lambasted and called a 'Trump supporter' (???!??!?!).

Who will fire the first missile?

demon2112 said:
source plz
---------- Post added at 11:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 PM ----------
anddd yeahhh aosp plzz haha
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
https://www.androidauthority.com/huawei-loses-access-to-google-android-987873/amp/

Sooooo would something like this be enough to get out of a contract ?
Surely ...

Loss of access to Google services and security updates will only apply to future devices. Current devices will be supported so we do not have expensive bricks.
https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/h...google-pulls-access-to-core-apps-and-services
I know Huawei play fast and loose with security processes but this is the battlefront of the US-China trade war. Huawei is one of the largest global players and I'm sure there will be a compromise once grown ups are in charge again at the White House!

catshanghai said:
Loss of access to Google services and security updates will only apply to future devices. Current devices will be supported so we do not have expensive bricks.
https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/h...google-pulls-access-to-core-apps-and-services
I know Huawei play fast and loose with security processes but this is the battlefront of the US-China trade war. Huawei is one of the largest global players and I'm sure there will be a compromise once grown ups are in charge again at the White House!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I won't be considering Huawei anymore though. I inherited my Huawei Mate 10 from my kid, and it's a good phone. Being unrooted, I use it for apps with payments.
Time to prepare to change it one of these days, waiting for Xiaomi's Poco f2 to supplement my f1. Still Chinese but I think they are in a different world from Huawei where Huawei is more than just phones or consumer products, definitely can raise concerns about a country's security.
Google can also be used by the USA to spy on other countries too lol. Anyway, China was first, they banned Google stuff, Facebook, Whatsapp, etc.

F*ck the US and Google. The US government thought it necessary to go to this extreme because Huawei is affiliated with the Chinese government. A bit rich when Google has been ordered to do this by the US government. How the irony is lost on them.
Now I will make sure to just buy Huawei phones in the future. I'd actually prefer if my phone was rid of Google. They've stolen enough of everyone's data illegally.

Well, I am not supprised, and made a big mistake buying a huawei mate 20 pro device. As soon Huawei keep doing things, what market leaders decide.... First complaining, now revocating everything, next step will be forcing / and destroy the remaining reputation. This is clear world decline that China is roadbreaker in innovation. Huawei also not helping in this. Smart phones are quiet small deal to Huawei , but they are loading in the 5G bacbone network devices, I think a lot of company under a pressure to cancel the contract with them. We know maybe there is no true in the whole story or a very little. I understand that business what Huawei doing is a western-like business model, similar what apple do in USA... But they are in China, USA still has really powerful hands to manipulate the market, so if Huawei not proving that they can be trusted, with opensource softwares , fully documented opensource hardwares/softwares, then it is a bad time for them. Rebranding and custom roms was "just for yourself" now it will be must to deploy some other firmware on your phone...
I completely lost with huawei reaction like a 2 year old kid, getting complaining then got angry and refuse negotiation, if they happen, I assume goverments will force to remove all huawei contract, if the pressure is enough high, maybe there will be some investment as well to/from nokia siemens , ericson or other big network device manufacture. Huawei wanted to build a Western like brand in China, that is a total failure. They don't need that anyway, just create the hardware sell it and do not care about software apart from the operations system drivers.
Why a logo on the phone not enough? Why they are not stepping forward last year to being more transpanent to the western world... Showing to the west, that China is overcoming create dislike in big western companies, and every exposed weak spots will be attacket. Huawei could have changed/improve the partnership, with going to negotiation providing better communication, open source apps, blueprints , whatever they want from them. But the reaction, they enclosed theirself in their castle preparing for the siege. BAD STRATEGY.
Yes not fair, if another company doing the same way like apple do, it is not threated as risk, as "west it the best" but the general trust problem with Chinese goverment and the type of the goverment can not expect the same conditions as a trusted western company... So they go into negotiation or will drastically reduce the prices and replicate apps in their store, that will not work at all....

Lack of support/responses

I purchased 2 of these phones in April because there seemed to be a decent support base for it here on XDA. But I have found that the support is lacking and nonexistent in the 3 months since I bought them. Custom ROMS have been posted, only to be left in limbo. Questions from users go totally ignored and unanswered. I am not a developer, so like most users I rely on those of you who are skilled in that expertise for our custom firmware. But I have to say that in the 7 years I have been a member here I have never seen such poor interaction from the developers.
I guess this forum has just become a reflection of the current attitudes lack of respect and concern in the world that exists today.

Try telegram.... There is probably 5 or six threads for our devices....

KtownJeff said:
Try telegram.... There is probably 5 or six threads for our devices....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the most bland blanket statement being swung around in every ****ing thread. If the developers can not be arsed to actually interact with the community in the forum they posted their ROM in, then they can just stay away entirely. I have no respect for people simply opening a thread and then link people to a telegram group because they are too lazy to actually use a forum.
I'm very tempted to report threads for closure since they appear to be abandoned.
I'd rather have no development than development hiding itself behind a ****ty chat-app.

KtownJeff said:
Try telegram.... There is probably 5 or six threads for our devices....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seriously? Talk about a lame solution.

jadephyre said:
This is the most bland blanket statement being swung around in every ****ing thread. If the developers can not be arsed to actually interact with the community in the forum they posted their ROM in, then they can just stay away entirely. I have no respect for people simply opening a thread and then link people to a telegram group because they are too lazy to actually use a forum.
I'm very tempted to report threads for closure since they appear to be abandoned.
I'd rather have no development than development hiding itself behind a ****ty chat-app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree 100%. :good::good::good::good::good:

jadephyre said:
This is the most bland blanket statement being swung around in every ****ing thread. If the developers can not be arsed to actually interact with the community in the forum they posted their ROM in, then they can just stay away entirely. I have no respect for people simply opening a thread and then link people to a telegram group because they are too lazy to actually use a forum.
I'm very tempted to report threads for closure since they appear to be abandoned.
I'd rather have no development than development hiding itself behind a ****ty chat-app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry you feel this way I was just offering a solution to help you with your issue but you know I do understand because I had the same thought at first but I think it is pretty cool to have real time discussion.....
Also our device is not limited to just this thread..... I spend my day switching ROMs with trebel based GSI....Oh and they get updated security every month and using our device all of the moto gestures show up in the rom because we still use the moto vender..... And if you really want to see some development start reading about compiling kernels..right now Im building a custom kernel for device.....

pastorbob62 said:
I purchased 2 of these phones in April because there seemed to be a decent support base for it here on XDA. But I have found that the support is lacking and nonexistent in the 3 months since I bought them. Custom ROMS have been posted, only to be left in limbo. Questions from users go totally ignored and unanswered. I am not a developer, so like most users I rely on those of you who are skilled in that expertise for our custom firmware. But I have to say that in the 7 years I have been a member here I have never seen such poor interaction from the developers.
I guess this forum has just become a reflection of the current attitudes lack of respect and concern in the world that exists today.
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maybe you could become a developer yourself and show us how it should be done?
which in case of Motorola is to develop software for like 10 devices a year + interact on forums etc. + try to solve all kinds of people's problems
all in your free time, not being paid for anything
Now I'm curious

Lupask said:
maybe you could become a developer yourself and show us how it should be done?
which in case of Motorola is to develop software for like 10 devices a year + interact on forums etc. + try to solve all kinds of people's problems
all in your free time, not being paid for anything
Now I'm curious
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Click to collapse
I knew the second I wrote my original post some clueless person would come back in defense of poor support and lack of interaction playing the "developers are overworked and do it for nothing" card. And then there is the ever present "if you don't like the way it's done do the developing yourself" joker. But it doesn't fly when somebody posts 3 or 4 ROMs and then totally ignores all questions and issues within this forum not just for days but for weeks and months. How about focusing on 1 ROM and dealing with it rather than over extending oneself and dealing with nothing? As I said, this is the first device I have seen this type of poor support and neglect. That is because on all of my previous 5 MOTOROLA, 2 Asus, 1 Huaweii, and 3 Samsung devices the developers stayed focused on 1 or 2 ROMS and didn't try to recreate the world. And in all of those cases I and many other users donated generously to the developers. Doing a lousy job at something you commit to and then saying "I don't get paid anyway" is not excusable. And defending the poor support and lousy interactions with those lame excuses just makes you a part of the problem. As I said in my post, it is simply a reflection of the attitudes in the world around us.

The problem is that too many users don't even know what they're doing. They do not want to acquire knowledge themselves and expect a solution and an explanation for everything.
By now I say to many users here they should inform themselves. This forum can provide help with problems, but cannot explain everything to everyone. The most common questions here are "I have a bootloop", "what does
encryption mean and why I'm not able to access my data", "why TWRP should only be booted and why does flashing to recovery fail", "should I install TWRP again after I updated my device" and so on... There is currently a user who is trying to mount TWRP in Windows and tells me at the same time that he has already rooted various devices.
Somewhere in between is a single user of 20 with a real problem but he doesn't get noticed.

pastorbob62 said:
I knew the second I wrote my original post some clueless person would come back in defense of poor support and lack of interaction playing the "developers are overworked and do it for nothing" card. And then there is the ever present "if you don't like the way it's done do the developing yourself" joker. But it doesn't fly when somebody posts 3 or 4 ROMs and then totally ignores all questions and issues within this forum not just for days but for weeks and months. How about focusing on 1 ROM and dealing with it rather than over extending oneself and dealing with nothing? As I said, this is the first device I have seen this type of poor support and neglect. That is because on all of my previous 5 MOTOROLA, 2 Asus, 1 Huaweii, and 3 Samsung devices the developers stayed focused on 1 or 2 ROMS and didn't try to recreate the world. And in all of those cases I and many other users donated generously to the developers. Doing a lousy job at something you commit to and then saying "I don't get paid anyway" is not excusable. And defending the poor support and lousy interactions with those lame excuses just makes you a part of the problem. As I said in my post, it is simply a reflection of the attitudes in the world around us.
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But this is a different issue. I can't and will not defend that someone creates a ROM, publishes it and forgets about it. And then another, and another. I am also sad that dev's time is spent/wasted on something useless at the end of the day, while they could help to develop something actually alive. I am also sad that there are numberless modifications and tinkering, all of them dealing with similar bugs and problems, while having minimal differences, and not uniting together to create something larger than the sum of all these parts.
And yes, , your original post did sound like whining at other people that they don't create enough software for *your* specific phone and help you solve your specific problems while giving zero effort to solve them yourself. Which is, sadly, a common attitude indeed.
As for me, I don't want to depend on people from XDA to do something that your phone manufacturer was paid to do - if you want support, ask it from there. The phones are not as popular to attract lots of independent development (I believe Motorola is partly to blame here, as they spam the market with too many devices). I'm afraid this is all we got.

Lupask said:
But this is a different issue. I can't and will not defend that someone creates a ROM, publishes it and forgets about it. And then another, and another. I am also sad that dev's time is spent/wasted on something useless at the end of the day, while they could help to develop something actually alive. I am also sad that there are numberless modifications and tinkering, all of them dealing with similar bugs and problems, while having minimal differences, and not uniting together to create something larger than the sum of all these parts.
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Agree 100%. That is basically what my post is trying to address.
Lupask said:
And yes, , your original post did sound like whining at other people that they don't create enough software for *your* specific phone and help you solve your specific problems while giving zero effort to solve them yourself. Which is, sadly, a common attitude indeed.
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Good heavens no! If you look at my history and go back the 7 years I have been here, you would find that I have been and will remain very active in helping others and solving my own problems. I have taken part in Alpha and Beta testing for developers. Have I gotten lazy on occasion and asked before searching? Sure. Who hasn't? But that is most definitely not my standard mode of operation. I make it a habit to search and research as much as possible before I ask.
Lupask said:
As for me, I don't want to depend on people from XDA to do something that your phone manufacturer was paid to do - if you want support, ask it from there. The phones are not as popular to attract lots of independent development (I believe Motorola is partly to blame here, as they spam the market with too many devices). I'm afraid this is all we got.
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Click to collapse
I agree, unless you are dealing with issues brought on by unlocking, rooting and installing custom software/roms. Go to Motorola and ask a question about those issues and you will get shut down immediately. "Sorry! Your warranty is void and we can't help you. And many users (like myself) buy models not available in the USA so there is no support from Motorola at the get go.
That is the whole purpose of XDA. Community support and development. Granted, there are those who will abuse it and not make any effort whatsoever to find the answer and fix it themselves. They deserve to be ignored. But if you put a mod or rom or app on here then by golly, at least support it.
I believe we are pretty much on the same page just took a couple of exchanges to get here. :good:

..
---------- Post added at 02:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:57 PM ----------
I reached a point where I basically gave up. I'm not a developer but I like to fiddle with my devices and add a better experience with customizations. I had a Moto G5S and tried to add a custom ROM based on Android 10 but none of them worked well. I spent an absurd amount of time trying to make them work at least in an acceptable way, with no success. I gave up, reinstalled the original 8.1 Android version and moved to a Moto G7 Plus with no root and only GCAM. When I get tired of Android 10, I'll buy a new cellphone with Android 11 or 12.
The lessons I learned are:
- I cannot complain for what I received for free
- I cannot oblige someone to fix for free what is not working for me
- it seems to be increasingly difficult to make things work if you have no access to the internal development of a cellphone's manufacturer
- I will change my purchasing habits: I prefer to buy another device after 1,5 years with the latest Android and hardware specs than fighting to make my 3-yr old device run with a modified system that has no guarantee from the manufacturer.
- I do not have the money to buy expensive devices, I prefer to buy something above the basic and replace it more frequently.
- I respect the developers and I'm not mad at them, I am sure they are learning a lot when creating these custom ROMs and this will take them to a better job (I hope)
- I agree that XDA has changed for worse in the aspect of "community-based development". The interaction in the forum is really going downward, this is the same with other forums I participate. People are moving to "immediate answer" options like whatsapp and Telegram, which I hate because they do not have the organized structure and historic documentation a forum provides.
---------- Post added at 02:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:56 PM ----------
I reached a point where I basically gave up. I'm not a developer but I like to fiddle with my devices and add a better experience with customizations. I had a Moto G5S and tried to add a custom ROM based on Android 10 but none of them worked well. I spent an absurd amount of time trying to make them work at least in an acceptable way, with no success. I gave up, reinstalled the original 8.1 Android version and moved to a Moto G7 Plus with no root and only GCAM. When I get tired of Android 10, I'll buy a new cellphone with Android 11 or 12.
The lessons I learned are:
- I cannot complain for what I received for free
- I cannot oblige someone to fix for free what is not working for me
- it seems to be increasingly difficult to make things work if you have no access to the internal development of a cellphone's manufacturer
- I will change my purchasing habits: I prefer to buy another device after 1,5 years with the latest Android and hardware specs than fighting to make my 3-yr old device run with a modified system that has no guarantee from the manufacturer.
- I do not have the money to buy expensive devices, I prefer to buy something above the basic and replace it more frequently.
- I respect the developers and I'm not mad at them, I am sure they are learning a lot when creating these custom ROMs and this will take them to a better job (I hope)
- I agree that XDA has changed for worse in the aspect of "community-based development". The interaction in the forum is really going downward, this is the same with other forums I participate. People are moving to "immediate answer" options like whatsapp and Telegram, which I hate because they do not have the organized structure and historic documentation a forum provides.

because there seemed to be a decent support base for it here on XDA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You judged and found out you were wrong.
But I have found that the support is lacking and nonexistent in the 3 months since I bought them. Custom ROMS have been posted, only to be left in limbo. Questions from users go totally ignored and unanswered.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How much exactly did you pay that made you entitled to this kind of support?
But I have to say that in the 7 years I have been a member here I have never seen such poor interaction from the developers.
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Click to collapse
You do not really have to say anything but forums are there for anyone to speak his mind. Even people who think they are entitled to stuff they actually aren't
I guess this forum has just become a reflection of the current attitudes lack of respect and concern in the world that exists today.
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Click to collapse
Lack of respect. REALLY?
Get off your high horse!
Your post itself is a reflection of another trend:
Unfounded entitlement.