Question about selling my N6 - Nexus 6 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting

What does everyone here think an unlocked N6 would be worth on swappa or eBay?
It is mint condition, has box, charger, 2 cases and a wireless charger.

Why don't you look it up yourself? Swappa has charts and other tools to see what phone are selling for.

I have looked it up myself, but I feel that some are overpriced. But then again that could just be me. That's why I figured I would as the community here and see what opinions I get.

I grabbed one second hand (no box - kind of irked me) and with a case for around $500 US and that's the cheapest I've seen, typically on eBay I'm seeing $600-$700

konaman said:
I have looked it up myself, but I feel that some are overpriced. But then again that could just be me. That's why I figured I would as the community here and see what opinions I get.
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Then price it lower. It's worth whatever someone will pay you for it. This thread is unnecessary and borderline against XDA rules.

akellar said:
Then price it lower. It's worth whatever someone will pay you for it. This thread is unnecessary and borderline against XDA rules.
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Click to collapse
It isn't unnecessary, your comment is unnecessary.
It is not against the rules to ask for an opinion. That is why this is in the Q&A section.
If you don't like this post or have a helpful comment then gtfo of my thread. I didn't ask if the XDA police could chime in and complain about my post. When I do, then feel free to complain all you want.
And thanks to the guy who had a legit comment.
I'm just trying to see what other may have paid off contract.

There is plenty of information to be found on both Swappa and eBay.
Thread closed.

Related

Kaiser for Sale!!

Used AT&T HTC Tilt/Kaiser for sale
Money order preferably
If you need pay pal then no problem but my bro will receive the money instead of me and will take a bit more longer to get it.
Price: $220.00 (no shipping and handling)
Rom: ruu_signed_Duttys_WM6 .1_hybrid_1.64.08.21 [RTM]
Radio: KAIS_radio_only_1.64.08.21
The phone is basically new and has been well taken care of; it has no scratches and it’s in excellent condition.
For more information, PM me.
Thank you
I'm bumping this thread so others can be able to see.
UPDATED!!
I posted pics..
If you really want to get it sold, you should ship it with an extra. Like a lint roller or candle... People pay a lot of money these days for those items
Dr. Strangelove said:
If you really want to get it sold, you should ship it with an extra. Like a lint roller or candle... People pay a lot of money these days for those items
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How about the Car Battery charger?
Dr. Strangelove said:
If you really want to get it sold, you should ship it with an extra. Like a lint roller or candle... People pay a lot of money these days for those items
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is that from Mike Moore's, Roger & Me? Where they expected all the GM workers to find jobs making lint rollers and candles?
No, but nice try
Read this thread completely:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=394724
Then you will understand my post. Reading it pissed me off and I really feel bad for the people involved. Again, I hope it gets resolved to everyone's satisfaction. But when I see a sale, I always think of that thread (NO relation whatsoever between this and the other thread).
yeah i knew about this.
For my service of selling, I will give all I can so you keep me in contact no matter what. If I have to give my phone number/msn account/ anything else then so be it.
hey, i just replied to your PM.
sorry for the delay. worked all day. please reply back.
thanks
Treat this post as a standard disclaimer and it is NOT aimed specifically at this seller.
Sadly, we recently had a case of a member who pretended to be selling Kaisers but was sending out "junk".
So -
If you buy any device from any member having seen it for sale on XDA-Developers; then you do so at your own risk. It is entirely up to you to ascertain if the description of the device is accurate and the offer genuine. You are not covered / protected in any way by XDA-Developers and XDA-Developers has not checked or authorised the sale of any device on these forums.
Can we merge this with the other post that the OP already put up offering hit tilt for sale? Or maybe with the other 50 page "help" thread as a nice
denouement to this entire saga?
it's not necessary to do..
anyways this guy is already making the deal.
I won't let him down.
the reason why Ninja Gaiden II is in the picture of my nickname is because I told him before that I was going to play the game meanwhile waiting for my brother to appear with the paypal information.
hey man, sorry i got distracted here at home.
reply back to my PM and we'll be good to go.
This thread can be closed now.
Item sold.
hey bro, got the phone!
Just as described. Glad to be back on a tilt!
It's refreshing to hear that you finally got what you deserved.
You will for sure put it in better use than I did.
Enjoy it and take care.
Try sell it on eBay, you get big bucks out of it... I paid $280 for a brand new one just week ago, too bad or I would have got your phone...

[INFO/DEBATE] Pricing on devices

Funny thing here when I see some phones sell for $200 and then 2 more people come and put it up for $400 or $600. What I don't get is why can't you guys follow the regular market? You won't get the best price for selling stuff here because almost everyone knows the device and how much it's worth. Ebay/Craigslist are usually the ones that sell for higher because you have a bigger audience. In a dev forum, I think that people would be looking for the best price. I bought a touch hd for $300 from the marketplace. That was a great value. Somepeople bought it for $500. I mean great, but seriously. Having things like putting up a fuze for $400 even if it's BNIB and Xperia for over $500? You may not agree and say it's my personal opinion on pricing and blah blah but I would suggest you take a look at how much devices sold for here and on eBay and then post your asking price. I saw ridiculous things such as someone asking the same amount as a brand new one from retail. It's ridiculous. I admit I'm trying to sell a device here, but not saying like $300. I am selling one with a broken screen, and all I did was look at the price for what they were regularly selling it for, find a medium, take that price, subtract money for screen. I thought that was reasonable, but I guess others don't. I don't care about getting the best sell out there. I just want to sell it to someone who knows what they're doing unlike people who buy the iPhone to show off, etc.
I agree wholeheartedly. I was actually selling a phone recently and found a buyer on Craigslist. I researched on ebay/CL first.
If never ceases to amaze me that someone thinks they can get more money for the previous gen's unlocked price than someone would pay for the current gen phone without contract. Capitalism is great and all but it's pretty easy nowadays to get right to the real market value. If you get tons of responses at one price it probably could have gone a little higher and that's how you would know.
While I can both agree and disagree, I must point out that it is at the sellers discretion what he/she may sell a device at. Likewise, it is at the buyers discretion what he/she will pay for a device. Yes, I've gotten some great deals on here. Yes, I've essentially called someone a moron here for trying to sell a device for much more than it's worth. Yes, I've been responded to on both situations. However, A devices' value will vary from one person to the next. It's all in the eyes of the techie that wants it.
With that said, I do agree that asking full retail or more for a device, regardless of its' condition, is a bit..well.. stupid. However, if someone wants the device bad enough, they'll pay the price. Case-in-point, Expansys has the Touch Pro 2 (http://www.expansys.com/d.aspx?i=179097) for 499 Sterling ($826.99 USD, for those of us who spend in USD instead of British Pounds). While I can only say "WTF ARE YOU ON", there's no doubt in my mind that Expansys is selling these devices on a regular basis. The value is all in the eyes of the buyer. Is it worth it for me to spend $830.00 on a phone? No. Is it worth it to someone else? Probably. I can't fault Expansys for trying to make some money, but I can't say that I'd be one of the suckers buying from them either.
It's all a game of perception. Regardless of market value, you'll still see some things selling for extreme prices. At the same time, you'll still see some users just about giving a device away. Final case: I got my HTC Athena (8gb MicroDrive, Window Mount, Car Charger, House Charger, Sync Cable, VGA Cable, and HTC USB Splitter (for sync + wired headset) for 200 + 15 shipping. Ebay says it sells for between 350 and 1200. The seller was interested in selling, I was interested in buying.
That's my $.02, it'll cost you $9,999.99. I take Cash, Money Order, and PayPal (verified only).
-John
Kraize said:
...
You may not agree and say it's my personal opinion on pricing and blah blah but I would suggest you take a look at how much devices sold for here and on eBay and then post your asking price.
...
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[rant]
your points of view are valid and you are allowed to have your opinions,
opening a thread to discuss it is a good way to handle it
but to regurgitate it in every post in which you disagree about the asking price is a bit rude
(if you don't agree with the price don't bid,
make a counter offer but don't laugh at or insult the sellers, which your bargaining technique seems to be)
I never sold anything online, so
I tried to sell here 1st (I'll assume others do it for the same reason)
because eBay is a hassle (and the fees)
and
it's always nice to pass it on to someone who knows how to get the most from a device
turns out eBay was less hassle then here
my conclusion is that eBay is better for newer Devices in great condition
and forums might be better for less than good condition or older devices / parts
eBay/Craigslist nets a better price because the buyer gets what they want when they want it
scouring the forum(s) for a deal takes longer and more effort
to each buyer and seller his/her own, that’s capitalism
[/rant]
It's a good idea to mention it in every post I see unfit. Just reminds them that they won't be able to sell it that high and it'll be a waste of time. I'm saving them that time
I do agree with Kraize.
It is definitely an interest from the buyer and seller. Unusual price is not really helping anyone and just waste of time. Besides seller has to keep in mind that it is a forum, not like....eBay...
Its a marketplace my friend. Who we are to determine what people should ask for their phone. Your points are valid & rather it resembles to my wishful thinking as well, but you know its about market, how can we control it when US govt itself couldn't. Let them have the best price for their device if they feel then can get one here. But yes one should not feel bad about low balls for sure.(Who-M3 must be in agreement with me in this case) LOL
Hey guys, I have an HTC Fuze. It's for sale, $699.99.
That includes shipping to anywhere in the world (that I can ship stuff to.)
It's in great shape. The battery cover is worn a bit, but hey, I'll buy you a new one and have it sent to your door. Included!
Drop me a PM if interested.
Kraize said:
It's a good idea to mention it in every post I see unfit. Just reminds them that they won't be able to sell it that high and it'll be a waste of time. I'm saving them that time
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judging from your past posts and choice of phrases
seems like a pompous and abrasive attitude, you obviously enjoy it,
there is just a more civil way to voice your aversion to the price
just because we can and are "free" to do something, doesn't mean we should.
There is a perfect match always.
What I mean is that if someone decides to sell his device in $700 and someone else decide to buy it that´s ok!
Even if we know that this is not the real price.
It is different to try to scam people than the value you put your device, that is so personal.
My Univeral for me has a value of much more than it´s real price and if someone thinks like me sure if he decides to sell it will be in a superior price
There is the real value and the sentimental value...
So we just have to help to improve security for scammers, but for regular trustable members, let them sell their devices to the price they think it´s ok!
Just my opinion.
Respectfully,
Sir.B said:
judging from your past posts and choice of phrases
seems like a pompous and abrasive attitude, you obviously enjoy it,
there is just a more civil way to voice your aversion to the price
just because we can and are "free" to do something, doesn't mean we should.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand you wanting to make your point, and I understand Kraize wanting to make his. However, can you do me a favor when making yours, and STOP hitting the return key. Let the word-wrap do it's job. My head is hurting trying to figure out why you keep doing that. Let the software do its' job. It's wasting my bandwidth! :-(
That said, his attitude and posts may appear to be pompous and abrasive to you, but to others his posts can be interpreted as guidance. At the same time, your post above can be seen as pompous and abrasive. However, just as you've indicated towards Kraize, it may be the way you prefer to handle this situation.
Again, with everything we have said in mind, these forums are Moderated by a team of people who do their best to stay unobtrusive. They may see some of the posts above and say "You know, that's just crossing the line". Hell, I've reported posts with less attacks for that type of stuff. At the same time, they may agree with you, or with Kraize, but that doesn't mean they'll let everything stay. That's my $.02, and I want my $9,999.99 now..
-John
Sir.B said:
judging from your past posts and choice of phrases
seems like a pompous and abrasive attitude, you obviously enjoy it,
there is just a more civil way to voice your aversion to the price
just because we can and are "free" to do something, doesn't mean we should.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
O! Hai! Guys! We have a genuine person here! He can tell what type of attitude I have just by looking at how I post! I mean there are no emotions or expressions shown through text, but this guy obviously gets it! Psh. Know what you're talking about before you say it please. Doesn't matter how I convey my opinion (as long as it's within civil limits), I can get my point across. Obviously I am a lot more immature. That comes with my age. I can't help being agressive when you people post stuff for such high prices, but it doesn't matter. It really does save people time from having to bump their thread, re-think their pricing, posting, rejecting, etc.
Market v. Extrinsic v. Intrinsic Value
If I may . . . I think you are all tugging and pulling at the distinctions between market value, extrinsic value, and intrinsic value. In reverse, intrinsic value of something is said to be the value that the thing has “in itself" and for its own sake. In a sense it has value because it "is". By this reckoning: Even the trade name "HTC" has value in that the goodwill that it generates makes people buy its products over say, a Palm product. I would argue this is precisely why some of you inherently react differently to characterizing a device as an "Athena" v. "Advantage" v. "Dopod" v. a "Thoth"; this-without regard to the sub-model designation, or the network carrier, if so assigned. Although it's insufficient to put it that extrinsic value is the opposite of intrisic value, for brevity, it'll do here. So, as one of our members so astutely put it "if X is in a world of letters out there, and among them, another letter, K is willing to buy X's item for $700, then the price for the item is $700". This is NOT the "Market Price" however. It is the price for THAT item; and it is reasonable between the parties. As to Market Price, that is what you get when you take the amalgamation of all like-kind transactions, based on arms-legnth negotiations, bargained-for-in-exchange resulting in an overall price scheme. (P.S. Mucking around with any of these does not affect the presence of fraud or the lack thereof. Nor does it relate much to the question of quality assurance. X can still swindle K; X can still sell K a brick. This above analysis remains unchanged).
I DO follow a rule of "tennor". A rule most of you are writing about without actually addressing it. That is: If you don't get along with the person, or find their posts insulting (even quietly insulting to your sensibility); if you have no meeting of the minds at the outset of an introductory email or PM or post, is it rational to expect you would have such a meeting of the minds when a transaction goes south? The only thing that surprises me about this . . . is that people keep getting surprised when such things occur.
Funny?
|Jason8| said:
Hey guys, I have an HTC Fuze. It's for sale, $699.99.
That includes shipping to anywhere in the world (that I can ship stuff to.)
It's in great shape. The battery cover is worn a bit, but hey, I'll buy you a new one and have it sent to your door. Included!
Drop me a PM if interested.
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Click to collapse
Is it me or is it pretty funny that someone tried to jack this thread to sell their Fuze for $700?
I think mods are on holiday. This thread should have not been here. It affects independent functioning of market place.
Who-m3 said:
I understand you wanting to make your point, and I understand Kraize wanting to make his. However, can you do me a favor when making yours, and STOP hitting the return key. Let the word-wrap do it's job. My head is hurting trying to figure out why you keep doing that. Let the software do its' job. It's wasting my bandwidth! :-(
…
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Sorry, I am using a small screen device, it's just easier to write that way, I'll try and curb that habit. I had no idea carriage return burns bandwidth, how so?
Kraize said:
O! Hai! Guys! We have a genuine person here! He can tell what type of attitude I have just by looking at how I post! I mean there are no emotions or expressions shown through text, but this guy obviously gets it! Psh. Know what you're talking about before you say it please. Doesn't matter how I convey my opinion (as long as it's within civil limits), I can get my point across.
...
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Click to collapse
I never claimed to know your intentions, I simply say that your comments are harsh, you can say all the same things less derisively and more politely.
Kraize said:
...
Obviously I am a lot more immature. That comes with my age. I can't help being agressive...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I made no assumptions about you as a person, and you yourself admit to having an aggressive approach to discourse, something I disagree as necessary. Just doesn't seem to go with "respectful" philosophy implied in forum rules.
i thought i might see a real info on pricing but here
ITS THE WWF SHOW.
what if you people had been like a buyer and a seller in a market arguing on the price of something in real life, man i am sure u people wouldve smacked eachother hard. lol
thats y i say
xda rules!
Hey!
What ever are our points of view, let´s keep this thread in peace and respect, so Mods can leave it open for continuing with this hot debate.
Just a suggestion
katzung said:
i thought i might see a real info on pricing but here
ITS THE WWF SHOW.
what if you people had been like a buyer and a seller in a market arguing on the price of something in real life, man i am sure u people wouldve smacked eachother hard. lol
thats y i say
xda rules!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL. You know, if this was in real life, I'm sure that if someone told me an outrageous price, I would've smacked them, shook my head, and laughed.
Thread moved to off-topic.
The marketplace is for buying / selling / trading only.
Thanks
Dave

Sold on eBay

I sold a phone on eBay last night and I say "got damn"they went up on fees. I haven't been on there to sell since earlier this year. Phone sold for $240 and they took $21 for fees then the PayPal transfer they took $8.I'm like damn. I won't be selling anything on there again anytime soon.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
I see what you did there.
Sent from my Kindle Fire running CM10
yup. sell your **** on swappa instead
View attachment 1554066
____________________________________________
ಇದು ನನ್ನ ಆಪ್ ಸಿಗ್ನೇಚರ್
ΧΔΑ Fraternity: TOT Time!
If my post doesn't make sense, Ask HTC
LoopDoGG79 said:
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdjzwiDME51qb8e9no1_500.jpg[/URL][/QUOTE]
Image FAIL!! LOL
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85gallon said:
Image FAIL!! LOL
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HOW!?!?
I failed bad lol.
You Live To Die.
So, racism aside - use eBay if you can get a better price less fees than you could in person.
That's just common sense.
For example, I'm going to sell a suit that does fit me on eBay - I have a much better chance at finding someone who WILL fit it if I open the sale to a country-wide market that enjoys lots of use than if I'm on Craigslist marketing to people in my local area who - if they want a suit - probably aren't looking on Craigslist for it in the first place. Or selling in a consignment store and letting them take a cut just like eBay would - and getting a much smaller audience.
Swappa might be good for phones - but it's a smaller market than eBay. If you can get the same price there, though - why not ? It's a specialised device that has a specialised marketplace - try it, sure.
I like eBay for random crap that I want to believe someone in the whole USA (or world if they want to pay shipping) might possibly want and search for in the next week or whatever. Sold my old iPod Classic to some dude in Russia, it was worth it just to be able to say that.
Pennycake said:
So, racism aside - use eBay if you can get a better price less fees than you could in person.
That's just common sense.
For example, I'm going to sell a suit that does fit me on eBay - I have a much better chance at finding someone who WILL fit it if I open the sale to a country-wide market that enjoys lots of use than if I'm on Craigslist marketing to people in my local area who - if they want a suit - probably aren't looking on Craigslist for it in the first place. Or selling in a consignment store and letting them take a cut just like eBay would - and getting a much smaller audience.
Swappa might be good for phones - but it's a smaller market than eBay. If you can get the same price there, though - why not ? It's a specialised device that has a specialised marketplace - try it, sure.
I like eBay for random crap that I want to believe someone in the whole USA (or world if they want to pay shipping) might possibly want and search for in the next week or whatever. Sold my old iPod Classic to some dude in Russia, it was worth it just to be able to say that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm just saying they obviously went up on fees since the last time I sold. And what's up with Jews and Nazis in my thread? Forget all that racist crap.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
Please modify your post. I'm going to report it anyway - XDA is a forum with a lot of youngsters on it, and comparing a fee for using a company's service to sexual abuse is just stupid and wrong.
It's simple. If you don't like the fees then don't use the service, but where else are you going to sell stuff online? They provide a service and charge for it - that's their right. :banghead:
Thread cleaned
Seriously... if you need to use anti-semitic remarks and brutal sex analogies to describe your views of eBay, I suggest you rethink your place on this forum. OT does not mean anything goes. Consider this a general warning for those of you who have crossed the line. You know who you are.

Anyone know a good site to sell used laptop?

Does anyone know a good site to sell my used laptop?
Not crazy about ebay because i've already canceled one ad on my account, if i cancel another i might get charged a penalty (if i end up selling it somewhere else while in the mean time... i want to sell it fast)
Not crazy about craigslist because the laptop has signs of cosmetic wear especially on the lid (does not impact performance purely cosmetic) but in the eyes of a non tech savy buyer that = worth much less.
Best buy trade in is a joke they offered me like $100 for my gs3 which i sold on swappa for $270.
All the hundreds of sites that give instant quotes seems a little sketchy because theres a bunch of identical sites, all of them ask for little to no info for the quote, they say send us the laptop THEN you get paid. Also the quotes are pretty low.
And sites like gazelle don't have a category for regular laptops.. only macbooks and iphones.
It's a hp dm4 1060 with a core i5, 4gb ram, 500HDD, 13" screen. Paid $650 for it 3 years ago i really want to get $300-350 for it at least, its worth a hell of alot more than that. Anyone have any advice?
Cell trader online - Just Google it
You can use me as a referral. Same username. Introduce yourself and follow the sellers layout. They have a tablet/laptop forum.
leyvatron said:
Cell trader online - Just Google it
You can use me as a referral. Same username. Introduce yourself and follow the sellers layout. They have a tablet/laptop forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This site looks very promising thanks! Looks a lot more like swappa. I'll check it out
Heisenberg420 said:
This site looks very promising thanks! Looks a lot more like swappa. I'll check it out
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Click to collapse
No problem.
A lot of member from here and swappa are on that site.

Asking to much?

white 64gb from moto with a ringe case.
im trying to sell quick and even payed swappa to feature it, but i havent even got 1 offer.
GreeleyXda said:
white 64gb from moto with a ringe case.
im trying to sell quick and even payed swappa to feature it, but i havent even got 1 offer.
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I think you answered your own question. Weather you're trying to sell a house, or a car or an item on eBay or swappa, this type of result can only mean one thing.
they could atleast make an offer?
i feel like the money paid to feature it is being wasted.
GreeleyXda said:
they could atleast make an offer?
i feel like the money paid to feature it is being wasted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not how swappa works. Post it for what you want to get or what it will sell at. It's not Craigslist or even eBay. These types of discussions are generally not allowed in xda either btw.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA Free mobile app
Folks wont bother with an offer if they can buy a new one for the same price.
GreeleyXda said:
i feel like the money paid to feature it is being wasted.
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Click to collapse
Yes, without a doubt. When I buy on swappa, I pay no attention to featured listings. I'm looking at price, condition, price, seller rating, and oh yes, did I mention price?
akellar said:
That's not how swappa works. Post it for what you want to get or what it will sell at. It's not Craigslist or even eBay. These types of discussions are generally not allowed in xda either btw.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA Free mobile app
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oh im not sure i understand then. i was looking at other listings and people were making offers for less than the listed price.
sorry didnt knw u cant ask for help on here.
bill3508 said:
Folks wont bother with an offer if they can buy a new one for the same price.
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Click to collapse
what the appropriate price for a white 64gb with case?
cam30era said:
Yes, without a doubt. When I buy on swappa, I pay no attention to featured listings. I'm looking at price, condition, price, seller rating, and oh yes, did I mention price?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
most paid it so the swappa team would spead the word and it would sell quick
feature listings are tweeted to all the followers of the @swappa Twitter account
GreeleyXda said:
oh im not sure i understand then. i was looking at other listings and people were making offers for less than the listed price.
sorry didnt knw u cant ask for help on here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not my rule -
7. Do not spam, sell or trade on the forums.
•If you wish to advertise a product, simply contact us. We can provide ads but you are not permitted to just post it in the forums. If you do, it will be removed and you're likely to receive a ban.
•On the 30th Nov 2012 the Marketplace closed. The buying, selling, trading and / or exchanging of any item is now prohibited on XDA, in any forum or via Private Messages. We now use www.swappa.com
GreeleyXda said:
what the appropriate price for a white 64gb with case?
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Click to collapse
The case is probably not worth any premium. It may be a selling feature, but will not get you any additional money.
MOD EDIT:
This.
akellar said:
Not my rule -
7. Do not spam, sell or trade on the forums.
•If you wish to advertise a product, simply contact us. We can provide ads but you are not permitted to just post it in the forums. If you do, it will be removed and you're likely to receive a ban.
•On the 30th Nov 2012 the Marketplace closed. The buying, selling, trading and / or exchanging of any item is now prohibited on XDA, in any forum or via Private Messages. We now use www.swappa.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So this story ends here.
@GreeleyXda asking about why my device is not selling is one thing, but when you or anyone starts bringing $$ figures into the equation, thread is shut down.
Thank you for understanding.
cam30era said:
The case is probably not worth any premium. It may be a selling feature, but will not get you any additional money.
So you asked for it >0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow thats pretty low. no way to make it higher?
i have an extra moto fast charge ac adapeter i could add (just the wall plug, no extra usb)

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