Database Develop

[DISCUSSION] Are unexploitable bootloaders putting an end to US development?

I will not state the obvious with the exception of this: If you can not root a device much less install a custom recovery, development essentially means absolutely nothing to you.. In this case what is the new definition of open source? "Open source" made android what is today.
All opinions from different perpectives are welcome--but please mind your Ps and Qs.
Thanks....
EDIT: I firmly believe that xda members must be patient. However, there must also be a realistic reckoning. That is to say--hypothetically speaking--if it takes five years to create an exploit, for all practical purposes one could consider that bootloader impregnable considering the exponential pace of technological advancement. So, if one is measured in their assessment and comments, it is closer to the truth and a heck of a lot more useful to talk in terms of "X" device has a bootloader that can not be unlocked. If for example the S4 is "cracked" say--three years from now, will anyone care? Will development restart? Finally, like with any choice, it's up to the individual to decide what can be considered "hard locked." For me, I guessed that the S4 would be leaked an unlock after the S5 came to market. Obviously my reasoning was wrong. At any rate, my ship has sailed--I can be patient no more.
But remember here we are assuming for the sake of a discussion that these bootloaders will not be exploited and if that is the case will that spread to the point that US development dies on the vine.

I thought unlockable bootloaders WERE promoting US development. The T-Mobile S5 subforum is buzzing, and it's crickets around here. It's these locked bootloaders that cause some frustration.

LoSt180 said:
I thought unlockable bootloaders WERE promoting US development. The T-Mobile S5 subforum is buzzing, and it's crickets around here. It's these locked bootloaders that cause some frustration.
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I think your right about T mobile. But they come with bootloaders that allow rooting and Installation of a custom recovery (I.e. unlocked).. When I say unlockable I am refering to carriers like At&t and Verizon. Take a look at their forums--you can almost hear crickets! As they are "locking down" one might wonder if it will spread especially as a carrier attains its target market share through promotions and even merger.

numbR7 said:
I think your right about T mobile. But they come with bootloaders that allow rooting and Installation of a custom recovery (I.e. unlocked).. When I say unlockable I am refering to carriers like At&t and Verizon. Take a look at their forums--you can almost hear crickets! As they are "locking down" one might wonder if it will spread especially as a carrier attains its target market share through promotions and even merger.
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T-Mobile is unlockable the HTC One M8 is unlockable, AT&T and Verizon S5 variants are not unlockable - we can't unlock them.

Not being able to unlock the bootloader, I believe is going to end development, at least for AT&T and Verizon. If I had the cash, I probably would've went with the T-mobile version, but I'm not rich like that LOL

As it was said by a mod in another thread, giving hopes to users that the AT&T/Verizon's S5 will get root anytime soon is just unfair for the users. It will not happen. The AT&T Note 3 got root when in 4.3, but there is no root in the horizon for KitKat don't even think about an unlocked bootloader. The same happened to the S4 after it was updated the bootloader and root is now lost and that has been for many, many months and on a phone that it had a very large development. Developers are not even bothering on wasting their time on AT&T/Verizon because there is the TMO and International versions available.
So to answer the original question my answer would be Yes.

eortizr said:
As it was said by a mod in another thread, givit helpsng hopes to users that the AT&T/Verizon's S5 will get root anytime soon is just unfair for the users. It will not happen. The AT&T Note 3 got root when in 4.3, but there is no root in the horizon for KitKat don't even think about an unlocked bootloader. The same happened to the S4 after it was updated the bootloader and root is now lost and that has been for many, many months and on a phone that it had a very large development. Developers are not even bothering on wasting their time on AT&T/Verizon because there is the TMO and International versions available.
So to answer the original question my answer would be Yes.
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I couldn't agree more. I think it's good you emphasize the truth as I helps newer people understand.

eortizr said:
As it was said by a mod in another thread, giving hopes to users that the AT&T/Verizon's S5 will get root anytime soon is just unfair for the users. It will not happen. The AT&T Note 3 got root when in 4.3, but there is no root in the horizon for KitKat don't even think about an unlocked bootloader. The same happened to the S4 after it was updated the bootloader and root is now lost and that has been for many, many months and on a phone that it had a very large development. Developers are not even bothering on wasting their time on AT&T/Verizon because there is the TMO and International versions available.
So to answer the original question my answer would be Yes.
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There is a fine line between giving false hope and nurturing fears, saying "It will not happen" is not necesarily true, it may not happen, but then again remember some who waited for a year to get root or those with iphones who waited for a year to jailbreak.
just my opinion is all.

cstayton said:
There is a fine line between giving false hope and nurturing fears, saying "It will not happen" is not necesarily true, it may not happen, but then again remember some who waited for a year to get root or those with iphones who waited for a year to jailbreak.
just my opinion is all.
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Agreed, when I said 'it will not happen' i was referring to the 'anytime soon' statement.

I agree that saying "it's coming soon" is probably not the best phrase to use. However, to say it will never happen is just as bad. It simply did not and has not happened as fast as we want it to. There is always someone smarter when it comes to computers and software. I am sure the devs have a life outside of hacking a phone for us and everyone needs to be patient. Plus the fact with the Knox security, I am sure the devs want to find all possible work arounds. Just my opinion though...
Sent from my AT&T Samsung Galaxy S5.

What I've come to realize in my years of owning Android devices and reading these posts on xda is that virtually nothing is impossible. However, that is a double-edged sword meaning that the manufacturers have had to step up their collective games to make it even harder for exploits to be found. AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses. I can understand that to a point. However, I would gladly pay AT&T and even sign a waiver to let ME take the risk solely upon myself to do what I would like with MY phone. It's idiots that ruin it for the rest of us. Such as the world, I guess. Just my two cents.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app

I love to use custom Roms etc.However when you buy a phone, buy it for what it is not for what you want it to be later on. The fact that there is no root is what keeps me using my GS4 more than this phone but the S5 is a solid Device, has great battery life (for me at least) and gets everything I need done. Its a matter of being patient especially for any who own the 4 and know how Samsung and ATT locked the previous iteration of this phone.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Premium HD app

baldwyn said:
What I've come to realize in my years of owning Android devices and reading these posts on xda is that virtually nothing is impossible. However, that is a double-edged sword meaning that the manufacturers have had to step up their collective games to make it even harder for exploits to be found. AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses. I can understand that to a point. However, I would gladly pay AT&T and even sign a waiver to let ME take the risk solely upon myself to do what I would like with MY phone. It's idiots that ruin it for the rest of us. Such as the world, I guess. Just my two cents.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
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Please explain how these so-called "idiots" are the reason AT&T and Verizon "had" to lock down the devices. I don't understand.

AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses.
I think I kinda explained it right there.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app[/QUOTE]
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app

baldwyn said:
AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses.
I think I kinda explained it right there.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
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Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app[/QUOTE]
Yes - I get that statement. But, how are they protecting themselves. That is, how are they harmed by these "idiots?" Further, if one were to extrapolate users from population, roughly 96% of mobile phone users in the world don't seem to pose a significant problem to thier carriers as it is only the NA carriers that do this ("hard" lock the bootloader). Then, futher hone that to say maybe 1.5%, at the most, US users root their phones. Then narrow further by device. If these numbers are even close--how many of these "idiots" are there. You've been around long enough to know some of the so-called "idiots" were accomplished developers. I do not want to argue with you. I am genuinely intetested in why you see it this way.

rachelm920 said:
Not being able to unlock the bootloader, I believe is going to end development, at least for AT&T and Verizon. If I had the cash, I probably would've went with the T-mobile version, but I'm not rich like that LOL
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Have you checked into the buyout and trade in promotions T Mobile has? Maybe you can switch with little or no pain. Lol

numbR7 said:
Have you checked into the buyout and trade in promotions T Mobile has? Maybe you can switch with little or no pain. Lol
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I'm so god damn sick of this OTA sh... I was at work and it rebooted and started installing by itself. I tried to pop the battery but no matter what I do it continues the installation.
I'm moving to T-Mobile. Thanks ATT!

I'm sorry my off-the-cuff remark has gotten out of hand. The idiots to whom I am referring are the ones who brick their phones or get them infected by lack of knowledge and then try to blame the carrier instead of taking the responsibility themselves. As a precaution, I can see AT&T locking their devices down in an attempt to prevent that from happening. I understand it's a small number of people that cause this or are even affected by this, but by doing so, AT&T can better control their integrity. Same reason why a bag of peanuts sometimes says "Caution: Contains nuts." C.Y.A.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app

baldwyn said:
I'm sorry my off-the-cuff remark has gotten out of hand. The idiots to who. I am referring are the ones who brick their phones or get thefected by lack of knowledge and then try to blame the carrier instead of taking the responsibility themselves. As a precaution, I can see AT&T locking their devices down in an attempt to prevent that from happening. I understand it's a small number of people that cause this or are even affected by this, but by doing so, AT&T can better control their integrity. Same reason why a bag of peanuts sometimes says "Caution: Contains nuts." C.Y.A.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
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It's cool. Posts are often taken wrong or worded differently than someone else is used to talking. I see your point. It makes sense. I may be a little too jaded (to put it nicely) to let them off the hook that easily though. Lol.

After my purchase of the new Samsung galaxy s5 on AT&T I will state that this will be my last carrier specific purchase,
My girlfriend has the HTC M8 (I had one also but hated the freaking pics from the camera).
This was another example of lesson learned, I will from now on purchase nexus devices or not locked to a carrier specific devices, or Google play edition devices from now on.
No more jumping the gun paying full retail to get phones on release day screw that. Lesson has been learned here for sure.
I am thinking on sending my Galaxy S5 into http://www.maxback.com and then purchasing a nexus 5, then later this year when the new nexus is available,I can pick one of them up.. But im kind of stuck as I love the camera on the s5.... this is what is holding me up...
Sure we and disable the bloatware on the Samsung and all that fun stuff, but there is a world of difference when all those items are gone
Thanks to the awesome developers here on XDA making some kickass roms for us.
I run the kingkat on my girlfriends HTC m8 from the HTC forums and it is so much faster with all of the bloatware and features she was never going to use gone.. that m8 is night and day in speed difference and usability..
Bottom line If we are here we have the mindset to tinker and to tinker on these devices WE need to stop buying locked down phones..

Root Concerns

I might be speaking out of an uninformed thought here, but I'm concerned about our root status.
With the bounty being as high as it is, and me not being able to find anywhere that the Devs are collaborating, what are the odds it is taking so long (or even might NOT happen) because there is no developer collaboration for the insanely high bounty? I could be wrong, but I'm starting to wonder if that's the right way to go about it.
Then there's the concern that if we do achieve root, it'll be so late in the game that no one will be developing for our S5 at that point and will have moved on to another device.
Thoughts?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we NEED the bootloader unlocked in order to achieve root it just makes it a hell of a lot easier. I believe the Note 3 on certain carriers still has the bootloader locked but someone was able to find a vulnerability and used that to get root. But I do share your concern as many carriers are offering upgrades after a year and most developers and obviously users get new devices with their upgrade.

Correct, we don't need an unlock bootloader to have root, but, Kitkat update has patch all the vulnerabilities that were use in previous devices like the S4 and Note 3, currently all Note3 shipped with KitKat are stock with no root because of that. I personally think that root will not be achieved on the S5 (Verizon and AT&T), the Note 3 has been on the market way longer than the S5 and the bootloader still locked and root is thing of the past if the Device was shipped with KK from factory.
Besides most of the Devs are researchers and get better recognition/$$$ by giving the exploits to manufactures instead of making it public. Other Devs just like to make it for Fun, but with the locked bootloader there is not much fun but a lot of work instead, and since no everybody that pledges actually pays is not worth it for them to actually work on getting root for a device you can get unlocked on other networks (ex. T-Mo). If all S5 were to be shipped with a locked bootloader, you would had root by now.

Colerunn said:
I might be speaking out of an uninformed thought here, but I'm concerned about our root status.
With the bounty being as high as it is, and me not being able to find anywhere that the Devs are collaborating, what are the odds it is taking so long (or even might NOT happen) because there is no developer collaboration for the insanely high bounty? I could be wrong, but I'm starting to wonder if that's the right way to go about it.
Then there's the concern that if we do achieve root, it'll be so late in the game that no one will be developing for our S5 at that point and will have moved on to another device.
Thoughts?
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These are legitimate concerns that should have you reevaluating your next purchase based on carrier and manufacturer. The goal is to make AT&T and Verizon phones secure enough for the military and business accounts. That is where the big bucks lie for those carriers. Sprint and T-mobile are more geared towards the average pedestrian with their lower price plans and limited coverage, therefore do not worry about locked bootloaders and super secure phones. Other manufacturers such as HTC provide unlock to those seeking it and root has been very easy.
As for developer discussions regarding root...you have seen what the bounty threads turn into...with all that bickering and name calling it is not conducive to a development environment, so those people actually hampered progress. I am sure discussions are going on in private in some IRC channel without the needless interruptions and constant requests for ETA and "Are we there yet." And as mentioned there is a lot more $$$ in the private sectors rather than claim a half bounty and have a free root available.

I'm really regretting my purchase of the S5 without having root, and to hear that it may never come is really concerning.

Welp, sounds like it's time for me to bite the bullet then. I'm thinking I'll post my phone to Craigslist as looking to sell or trade for a T-mobile version. Worse-comes-to-worst, I'll ebay the phone for what I can get, and pay out of pocket the difference for a new one.
Raises a new question: international version or just a different U.S. carrier's?

The carriers are getting work and ideas from us, then adding those features to the phones. Then locking them up (Bootloaders, No Root) because - Like Kenny says, they want to be more secure for corporations. Some people use root for bad things like (Not paying for apps and Xposed modules blocking ads, and other things that they don't want us doing) I use root for LONG LASTING BATTERY LIFE and getting rid of bloatware apps running in the background I dont even use. Yes, it sucks we can't do the things we use to but, they have made it so we can Turn Off apps, Long Lasting battery with the Ultra Power Save feature, etc......(Things we did with root are now coming on the phone >Stole those ideas from us<
EDIT: LETS GO KINGO, YOU CAN DO IT !!!!!! Maybe soon Kingo can produce a root option. That would be awesome. I'm not leaving At&t, been there for 18 years. Great coverage and customer service has been awesome to me !!!

Don't need root for getting apps for free. Ever heard of Aptoide?
Sent from my stock, untouched Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 7.0 on the xda-developers app

LoopingCreeper said:
Don't need root for getting apps for free. Ever heard of Aptoide?
Sent from my stock, untouched Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 7.0 on the xda-developers app
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Well, you know what I mean. They don't want us to have Root Access. You can do a lot of things with root man.

LuckyColdJohnson said:
Well, you know what I mean. They don't want us to have Root Access. You can do a lot of things with root man.
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I know what your mean. Freedom can be used to get in app purchaces for free. That is kinda getting apps for free and it requires root.
Sent from my stock, untouched Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 7.0 on the xda-developers app

For me, ans more of a power user, the Root abilities were to get a smooother better battery life custom solution. I used Adaway and some apps for better performance. Other than that, root didnt mean much to me. I do miss the rebel aspect of it and that alone rather makes me wish I had bought the HTC M8 instead of the S5 last week.
Best of luck to the Devs that find us a root or AT&T to provide unlocking.

I'm with you guys. I'm just out to up my battery life, remove ads (admittedly. Can you blame me?), and have a few hardware changes, like reassigning buttons, switching music with my volume keys and such.
Biggest want? Titanium backup. I relied on that app more than I'd like to admit, as well as TWRP or ClockWork (depending on the phone/ROM I was using at the time).
It's just nice to be free with something I bought full price, SO I COULD HAVE THE FREEDOM TO DO WHAT I WANTED WITH IT.
Either way, We'll see what happens. All I want is root permissions.
Here's a curious thought, though. The AT&T S4 isn't rooted, but they have a workaround (loki mod). Anyone know if something like that is in the works for us?

I agree. Hopefully we will get an Root option (Maybe Kingo will come through again like with the Note 3) but their saying nobody has a root option for 4.4 on At&t phones. Don't see much talk about almost getting there as well. Chainfire was also saying that new Android firmware is about to start breaking root apps. 4.4.3 and on could be the start to the end of custom roms and root for Samsung devices (At&t). I too thought about going with an HTC device, I just love the S5's camera. I don't know what to think about these new phones man. It was so much fun installing and customizing our phones how we wanted to. Its sad and depressing watching these loved things go away. I'm not on my phone as much anymore.

I'm personally getting ready to purchase another device, I love my GS5 even tho it isn't rooted but I'm just not liking the size of it. I got it for $10 with my team member discount but I think I'm going to either get a T-Mobile one or European S5. Idk I want to stay with Samsung but this whole locked phone thing is discouraging.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Premium HD app

LuckyColdJohnson said:
I agree. Hopefully we will get an Root option (Maybe Kingo will come through again like with the Note 3) but their saying nobody has a root option for 4.4 on At&t phones. Don't see much talk about almost getting there as well. Chainfire was also saying that new Android firmware is about to start breaking root apps. 4.4.3 and on could be the start to the end of custom roms and root for Samsung devices (At&t). I too thought about going with an HTC device, I just love the S5's camera. I don't know what to think about these new phones man. It was so much fun installing and customizing our phones how we wanted to. Its sad and depressing watching these loved things go away. I'm not on my phone as much anymore.
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That's the only reason I kept and probably will keep my Nexus 5...

Colerunn said:
I might be speaking out of an uninformed thought here, but I'm concerned about our root status.
With the bounty being as high as it is, and me not being able to find anywhere that the Devs are collaborating, what are the odds it is taking so long (or even might NOT happen) because there is no developer collaboration for the insanely high bounty? I could be wrong, but I'm starting to wonder if that's the right way to go about it.
Then there's the concern that if we do achieve root, it'll be so late in the game that no one will be developing for our S5 at that point and will have moved on to another device.
Thoughts?
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Click to collapse
I've seen maybe one or two times since I've been a member of XDA where a bounty worked achieve root or an unlocked bootloader. Honestly, I doubt many of the devs who work on that type of stuff bought an AT&T S5. If it was me, I would have gone T-Mobile or International, as I'm sure most have.
Also, as someone said above, not everyone pays their pledges. The longer a bounty lasts, the bigger chance people who have pledged early have moved on or are not following anymore. I'm willing to bet that if a bounty was close to 2K, the most a dev could hope for is maybe $500, if their lucky. That's still quite a bit of money, but no where near what was pledged. Past experiences dictate present actions.
Sent from my VK810 4G using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
---------- Post added at 04:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:05 AM ----------
KennyG123 said:
These are legitimate concerns that should have you reevaluating your next purchase based on carrier and manufacturer. The goal is to make AT&T and Verizon phones secure enough for the military and business accounts. That is where the big bucks lie for those carriers. Sprint and T-mobile are more geared towards the average pedestrian with their lower price plans and limited coverage, therefore do not worry about locked bootloaders and super secure phones. Other manufacturers such as HTC provide unlock to those seeking it and root has been very easy.
As for developer discussions regarding root...you have seen what the bounty threads turn into...with all that bickering and name calling it is not conducive to a development environment, so those people actually hampered progress. I am sure discussions are going on in private in some IRC channel without the needless interruptions and constant requests for ETA and "Are we there yet." And as mentioned there is a lot more $$$ in the private sectors rather than claim a half bounty and have a free root available.
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The carriers should make separate phones for consumers and businesses. That would be great.
Sent from my VK810 4G using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

Skizzy034 said:
The carriers should make separate phones for consumers and businesses. That would be great.
Sent from my VK810 4G using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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Some do...sort of...they are called developer's editions and you usually have to wait a few months for their release.

KennyG123 said:
Some do...sort of...they are called developer's editions and you usually have to wait a few months for their release.
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Hey KennyG, I just got the s5 Active, will y'all be opening up a thread for that soon? Thanks

Colerunn said:
Welp, sounds like it's time for me to bite the bullet then. I'm thinking I'll post my phone to Craigslist as looking to sell or trade for a T-mobile version. Worse-comes-to-worst, I'll ebay the phone for what I can get, and pay out of pocket the difference for a new one.
Raises a new question: international version or just a different U.S. carrier's?
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MetroPCS S5 for $649+ $30 unlock code from cellunlocker-dot-net and you have a wide open west device ready for custom recovery/roms, the works. Also will be carrier unlocked and completely unbranded. Radio has all the LTE bands for TMO and ATT, LTE works. Was using Alliance Rom at the time.
I did sell mine and picked up an M8. Just prefer the feel in hand, 32GB (what was SEC thinking 16GB on a top tier device!) and of course the IPS LCD just looks better to my old, tired eyes than the SuperAMOLED+. Of course everyone's preferences are different.
If you're a night owl and prefer full darkness viewing the AMOLED displays can't be beat. Using LUX I was able to turn down the brightness to just about nothing and the contrast is still outstanding. LCDs (of course) wash out since they do have finite limits of contrast at low levels...
But in normal environments, wow, the IPS display looks spectacular...
In any case, expecting root on an ATT device these days is probably going to lead to major disappointment. Personally, I'd rather use an iOS device than a locked bootloader device (S4/S5).
When you're used to having the freedom of root and can no longer do the things you get used to it's like a punishment, having virtual shackles around your feet and expected to run a 10K on a day with 80 degree dewpoints. Oh yes and with a family of hungry black bears right behind you...

LuckyColdJohnson said:
Hey KennyG, I just got the s5 Active, will y'all be opening up a thread for that soon? Thanks
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Not really needed if it is just as locked down and basically same hardware will see how it goes.

Pretty amazing how ATT absolutely killed this phone

First the locked bootloader, next they make us the last among the s5's to get lollipop by a long shot. Definitely will be cautious when I upgrade and it will likely be to another carrier.
In hindsight, I should have learned my lesson with the Optimus G. Another great phone they ruined
Sent from my SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app

abraxo said:
First the locked bootloader, next they make us the last among the s5's to get lollipop by a long shot. Definitely will be cautious when I upgrade and it will likely be to another carrier.
In hindsight, I should have learned my lesson with the Optimus G. Another great phone they ruined
Sent from my SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
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This really is nothing new..my job has AT&T and the S3 was months behind all the other carriers in the 4.x updates. The only time they were close was that big Samsung Christmas rush to make all phones Gear compatible...other than that OTAs are far and few between.

abraxo said:
First the locked bootloader, next they make us the last among the s5's to get lollipop by a long shot. Definitely will be cautious when I upgrade and it will likely be to another carrier.
In hindsight, I should have learned my lesson with the Optimus G. Another great phone they ruined
Sent from my SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
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not sure if it can ruin a phone with awesome hardware out of the gate... if you are basing it solely on not receiving updates quickly then sure..
the locked bl is a pain but any phone person knows its best to wait and see if a device gets unlocked before purchasing it or its in turn partly your fault as well. You cant blame a carrier for making their devices to use on their network more secure for them.
i do agree it sucks, but its the way the cookie crumbles.. i am moving on from verizon s5 to another device that will b unlocked but its bcuz i like unlocked bl not bcuz of verizon as i cant blame them
Sent from my SM-G900V using XDA Free mobile app

Bootloader locked is fine, but we dont even have lollipop yet when all others do, which isnt a samsung issue, its directly an att issue. To me thats crap! All over the world its been out and we dont have a date announced yet.......never getting att again for sure. 5.1 is even out today lmao

We might get 5.1 on att somt me after 6.0 comes out
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Based on the issues with lollipop I've heard about, maybe it's not a bad thing we're still on KK.

Russ77 said:
Based on the issues with lollipop I've heard about, maybe it's not a bad thing we're still on KK.
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+2
I've been through the variants of 5.x on my Nexus 7 and it's not been worth it. Maybe 5.1 will play out, too early to tell. I'd despise wasting the hardware resources of the GS5 to make up for bugs, just to pretty up the UI. I'd much rather have a stable base for something that I rely upon for *functionality* that while not life threatening is surely life inconveniencing when it's not working properly.

What disappoints me so much is that I had an s2 as well as an s3 on att and the dev communities there were amazing. I guess att locked the bl so that idiots don't brick the phone but they really killed off something great.
Sent from my SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app

abraxo said:
What disappoints me so much is that I had an s2 as well as an s3 on att and the dev communities there were amazing. I guess att locked the bl so that idiots don't brick the phone but they really killed off something great.
Sent from my SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
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It's all about the money... they locked it for "corporate users" such as government agancies, businesses etc. Now anyone can buy it without worrying about security for the most part

Y'all should have got the phone through cricket, they are owned by AT&T and they left the boot loader unlocked. I'm surprised more ppl don't know about it

Russ77 said:
Based on the issues with lollipop I've heard about, maybe it's not a bad thing we're still on KK.
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+3 on this.
I'm with Verizon and wish I never would've taken the 5.0 update. Phone is now slower, battery doesn't last, laggy, constant "contacts stopped working" message.
Also, once you update you are basically stuck with the issues.
Sent from my SM-G900V using XDA Free mobile app

Funny how there's always something to complain about [emoji122]

My experience with the Galaxy S5 on ATT has led me to vow not to get stuck in this position again. I got it on black friday for 9 cents on black friday on a contract, but never again. Nexus 6 or HTC in the future, I want a wide variety of ROMS to choose from and fast updates!

rg3-save-our-city said:
My experience with the Galaxy S5 on ATT has led me to vow not to get stuck in this position again. I got it on black friday for 9 cents on black friday on a contract, but never again. Nexus 6 or HTC in the future, I want a wide variety of ROMS to choose from and fast updates!
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Click to collapse
I swore up and down I would do the same when I had the Galaxy S3. Somehow or another I bought the S5 and forgot. Now I'm kicking myself.

I definitely won't be doing the att route come next year
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app

Man, they even updated the Note 4 already

Cccrrrriiiccckkkeeetttttt

I'd love to replace it with something that has an unlocked BL. Preferably Nexus the only issue is that not having MicroSD is a deal breaker for me.

Sell it and get the s5 from cricket!

Swimguy14 said:
Sell it and get the s5 from cricket!
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Cricket Wireless is even worse, though - they have no VoLTE/"HD voice", no Wi-Fi calling and no plans to enable these features on their network in any city any time soon.

Marshmellow coming in January 2016

It will probably take longer for vzw versions, but at least we know the order it is being released as well as approximate time.

Wonderful, us VZW guys aren't even on the list. Thanks Obama

I guess there is no love for the Galaxy Note Pro. At least my S6 Edge is getting it.

85gallon said:
I guess there is no love for the Galaxy Note Pro. At least my S6 Edge is getting it.
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I feel ya, I have a Galaxy Tab S 10.5.

Is the UK the same?

Sooooooo any updates on this?

Syn Ack said:
Sooooooo any updates on this?
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I haven't seen anything further. But I did install the free Marshmallow theme from the theme store.

One of my friends received Android 6.0 on his Boost Mobile LG Stylo today. Not bad for a $179 phone!

i see marshmallow has been out for a bit now for the s6 edge. how is there no tar for those of us who would like to try it out?
Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

It has not been released by Verizon yet.
Sent from my SM-G925V using XDA Free mobile app

giobotta said:
i see marshmallow has been out for a bit now for the s6 edge. how is there no tar for those of us who would like to try it out?
Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google does the update and then sends it to Samsung for testing. IF Samsung decides the update is worthy and fits into their business plan for the life of the phone, they will test the update and correct things that are specific to the S6. IF that is completed then they send the update to Verizon, who in turn, decides if it fits in their business plan and the planned end of life for the product. If Verizon decides to pass it along then they update the code with their specifics and then they release it to the phones.
All of that has to go good before we knaves might see an update.
Unfortunately Android updates and timeline does not fit into the end of life plans for phones by the carriers. That is why we usually only get one or two updates.

Just saw this while searching online tonight.
http://www.mobipicker.com/galaxy-s6-s6-edge-s6-edge-s5-note5-note-4-android-marshmallow-update/
Sent from my SM-G925V using XDA Free mobile app

It is no February 1st no Marshmellow

You guys know it's Marshmallow... with an A, not an E... right? Seems like something spell check should have warned you of...

Don't suppose anyone's heard anything for us VZW guys in terms of getting any updates, have they? About to list my phone on swappa and try to get something else... Not having root access or the ability to even really play with my phone is making this phone kinda boring to me. That and i'm not as much of a fan of the edge screen as I thought i'd be

spadz93 said:
Don't suppose anyone's heard anything for us VZW guys in terms of getting any updates, have they? About to list my phone on swappa and try to get something else... Not having root access or the ability to even really play with my phone is making this phone kinda boring to me. That and i'm not as much of a fan of the edge screen as I thought i'd be
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Click to collapse
If you do get a new phone I strongly suggest you get the Nexus 6. A bunch of support and you can unlock the boot loader and get any ROM you want it's awesome. I've been loving mine!

blackra1n said:
If you do get a new phone I strongly suggest you get the Nexus 6. A bunch of support and you can unlock the boot loader and get any ROM you want it's awesome. I've been loving mine!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah it's a catch between the nexus 6 and the turbo 2 if I decide to move away. The turbo 2 in terms of hardware is slightly superior, but unfortunately it seems like it's suffering the same fate as my current phone
Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

spadz93 said:
Yeah it's a catch between the nexus 6 and the turbo 2 if I decide to move away. The turbo 2 in terms of hardware is slightly superior, but unfortunately it seems like it's suffering the same fate as my current phone
Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk
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Yeah so I've heard. Definitely would recommend the Nexus 6 as I'm using it right now and its amazing but its your choice. Price wise its pretty cheap too. Got mine for $225 on swappa

Starting to roll out from Samsung. Verizon will likely take forever to send it out though....

Another bit of a tease http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/16/samsung_starts_marshmallow_upgrades/

When Marshmallow does get here...what then?

Between Verizon's (relatively) recently unlocked bootloader, systemless root in the Super betas and Marshmallow update, would updating be worth it when it gets here or should we hold out for 5.x to get rooted? Is there a chance Marshmallow will be easier to root? Should we just give in to mediocrity and live without root because we unwittingly bought the wrong phone?
I'm asking so we have a chance to get the discussion going since we are on the veritable cusp of the update we're all waiting for. I'm really hoping 6 is a little easier to root or that they'll relax security since this will probably be the last big update we get for a while.

One question is what is it that you need root for?

6 is nowhere near the biggest update for a while, you seen N? As for easier rooting, info there as well, that's why systemless root was made because it was impossible otherwise.
Sent from my Galaxy S5 using XDA Labs

Rakuu said:
6 is nowhere near the biggest update for a while, you seen N? As for easier rooting, info there as well, that's why systemless root was made because it was impossible otherwise.
Sent from my Galaxy S5 using XDA Labs
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N looks huge, but I tend to side with OP on this. Our phone is 2 years old, I think Marshmallow will be our last major update. I can't see Samsung and AT&T giving us N.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

stew1411 said:
N looks huge, but I tend to side with OP on this. Our phone is 2 years old, I think Marshmallow will be our last major update. I can't see Samsung and AT&T giving us N.
Click to expand...
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My point still stands, MM will not come any easier to root unless att intentionally exposes some way to root it in their update which I don't see them doing ever.
Sent from my Galaxy S5 using XDA Labs

YasharF said:
One question is what is it that you need root for?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rakuu said:
My point still stands, MM will not come any easier to root unless att intentionally exposes some way to root it in their update which I don't see them doing ever.
Sent from my Galaxy S5 using XDA Labs
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My hope is that with the newer operating system there may be more unpatched security exploits. Either way, will M be worth not having root? I'd rather wait around for a working root for the versions we are on now than settle for an okay operating system.
Will system less root be implemented by out phones? I figured that was a stretch because of our bootloader.

Yeah, really good question... will Chainfire's systemless root work on our S5 with Marshmallow?

719c6 said:
Yeah, really good question... will Chainfire's systemless root work on our S5 with Marshmallow?
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Click to collapse
Does it work on our s5 with lollipop? No it won't from what we know at this time, it requires modifying the kernel image I believe, so it won't work, rooting became a lot harder on a lot of devices with M.
Sent from my Galaxy S5 using XDA Labs

I wouldn't bet on it. AT&T likely won't be releasing N on our phone (look at how slow they're at pushing Marshmallow. Being the phone has now been out for 2 years, they won't be putting any more resources into the phone.
As for the bootloader, HAH. It's not going to get any easier to unlock, even more so that developers are turning to working on unlocking newer phones that are now in use; and AT&T certainly won't be unlocking it for us. They'd rather you buy a new phone from them.

QuillOmega0 said:
...AT&T certainly won't be unlocking it for us. They'd rather you buy a new phone from them.
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I call their bluff and will switch to Project Fi as soon as my contract is over :laugh: I think they have made enough off of me over the last decade.

QuillOmega0 said:
As for the bootloader, HAH. It's not going to get any easier to unlock, even more so that developers are turning to working on unlocking newer phones that are now in use; and AT&T certainly won't be unlocking it for us. They'd rather you buy a new phone from them.
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Click to collapse
I understand it won't get easier. I just don't understand why it is so much more difficult than the S6 or S7. I would expect those models to be more resilient due to the fact that they are currently being much more supported by their manufacturers and carriers. Otherwise, why would they have changed things to make it easier to root and, therefor, less secure on the newer models? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Either they are intentionally trying to give us easier root as an incentive to upgrade, which I doubt, or a root for the s5 should be doable because it isn't as ironclad as they want us to think.

Every American carrier has released Marshmallow except for good ol' AT&T...

morphfxf said:
Every American carrier has released Marshmallow except for good ol' AT&T...
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Click to collapse
Wouldn't expect anything less. I remember on my windows phone back on the mango update they acted like they ere going to release it... then never did, luckily in that case I could side load it.
Sent from my Galaxy S5 using XDA Labs

it just got released for verizon yesterday..?

four loko said:
it just got released for verizon yesterday..?
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Verizon != Att
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