Related
Ram for the G1 actually be? In the specifications of the G1 are all 192MB Ram
but in fact when testing with any program system information are reported as 92Mb, 100Mb other then gone?
Who can give me an explanation does not? Thank alot.
92 mb is for user usage (and honestly it's about 40 mb when you fully launch your phone).
100 mb is used by Android, GPU etc.
That is actually quite incorrect.
The "missing RAM" is allocated to various pieces of hardware.
For example, if you have a computer (including laptop) with an IGP graphics chip and you go into your bios settings, it usually has somewhere that you can configure the amount of MAIN MEMORY to allocate to the IGP. You would then notice that the total amount of memory available to the operating system is affected by changing this number.
16 MB is allocated to the GPU.
A *HUGE* chunk is allocated to the RADIO.
Some more is allocated to some other things.
A note about the "RADIO"... it isn't really just a RADIO. The MSM7201 chip in the phone actually has TWO ARM PROCESSORS in it. The "user" processor, and the "radio" processor. Each of these processors run different OPERATING SYSTEMS. The USER processor runs Android/Linux, the RADIO processor runs the proprietary radio operating system. These two systems are more-or-less INDEPENDENT with certain links to allow you to transfer data between them in order to communicate on the cell network.
In my opinion, listing the memory allocated to the radio as part of the total RAM is quite dishonest. This is compounded by the fact that their proprietary firmware is SO TERRIBLY FLAWED that it eats up a whole half the RAM of the thing. I am fairly convinced that the firmware developers at HTC must write their firmware in visual basic or some other horribly inefficient trash rather than writing it properly in assembly. There is NO justification for the radio to eat up more than about 8 MB, and yet it eats up nearly 100.
Very helpful explanation of how the phones are working internally. Thank you very much lbcoder!
Sent from my Htcclay's Superfly G1 using XDA App
lbcoder said:
That is actually quite incorrect.
The "missing RAM" is allocated to various pieces of hardware.
For example, if you have a computer (including laptop) with an IGP graphics chip and you go into your bios settings, it usually has somewhere that you can configure the amount of MAIN MEMORY to allocate to the IGP. You would then notice that the total amount of memory available to the operating system is affected by changing this number.
16 MB is allocated to the GPU.
A *HUGE* chunk is allocated to the RADIO.
Some more is allocated to some other things.
A note about the "RADIO"... it isn't really just a RADIO. The MSM7201 chip in the phone actually has TWO ARM PROCESSORS in it. The "user" processor, and the "radio" processor. Each of these processors run different OPERATING SYSTEMS. The USER processor runs Android/Linux, the RADIO processor runs the proprietary radio operating system. These two systems are more-or-less INDEPENDENT with certain links to allow you to transfer data between them in order to communicate on the cell network.
In my opinion, listing the memory allocated to the radio as part of the total RAM is quite dishonest. This is compounded by the fact that their proprietary firmware is SO TERRIBLY FLAWED that it eats up a whole half the RAM of the thing. I am fairly convinced that the firmware developers at HTC must write their firmware in visual basic or some other horribly inefficient trash rather than writing it properly in assembly. There is NO justification for the radio to eat up more than about 8 MB, and yet it eats up nearly 100.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WOW! Thanks for this bit of really really useful and interesting info! I really didn't know how RAM is divided and just tried to write what I know/think.
SO! It's really interesting. There is not a way to rewrite this radio system? This one itself would free about 90 mb of RAM! It would be greater performance boost as all of this swaps, compcaches and other stuff. I thinks you know what I mean, my english is not so perfect.
raven_raven said:
WOW! Thanks for this bit of really really useful and interesting info! I really didn't know how RAM is divided and just tried to write what I know/think.
SO! It's really interesting. There is not a way to rewrite this radio system? This one itself would free about 90 mb of RAM! It would be greater performance boost as all of this swaps, compcaches and other stuff. I thinks you know what I mean, my english is not so perfect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be the million dollar question, and the problem is that the thing is totally undocumented. And due to its age, it wouldn't make economic sense to reverse engineer it.
The next best option would be to disable the radio altogether. We could certainly write a simple bit of code that does nothing except pass everything off to the main processor. With that, and a little bit of USB MASTER mode and a USB UMTS modem.... might not be as pretty, but it could potentially do the same work, and would free up all the memory lost to the radio.
This is quite fantastic. Too bad that I won't posses coding skills needed to do that in next 15 years .
No one tried to do that? It is really fantstic vision, to free up about 100 mb of RAM! Man, G1 would totally have a second life.
Something tells me that it is impossible or nearly impossible to do this, I mean ppl would sacrifice 3D graphics for 10 mb of RAM (and someone had to write kernel doing that), and yet, when there is 10 times better profit, no one took the challenge.
Very interesting topic. In my opinion programming skills are not really the limiting factor, but documentation and especially architectural documentation of the phone is.
Independently of skills and time, I would not even know where to get the required information. Additionally there is the need for equipment (JTAG, etc.) due to the bricking risks. Unfortunately at the moment I can see only a very few guys here in the forum having that knowledge and most likely they do not have the time to concern about this.
Sent from my Htcclay's Superfly G1 using XDA App
AndDiSa said:
Very interesting topic. In my opinion programming skills are not really the limiting factor, but documentation and especially architectural documentation of the phone is.
Independently of skills and time, I would not even know where to get the required information. Additionally there is the need for equipment (JTAG, etc.) due to the bricking risks. Unfortunately at the moment I can see only a very few guys here in the forum having that knowledge and most likely they do not have the time to concern about this.
Sent from my Htcclay's Superfly G1 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No... it really is just programming skills. The part of the radio that we would be messing with is the code run on the ARM4 (I think its a 4... might be a 5), and just long enough to hand off to the ARM6. THAT part is very well documented. What isn't documented is the actual radio circuit and how to interface with that from the ARM4.
We're talking literally about just a few lines of assembly and throwing redboot at the ARM6 instead of the SPL.
Further to my recent post .....
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1156727
I noticed on a 'QR Reader ' app that it seemed to invoke a 'raster effect ' overlayed ? on screen.
This method - an adjustable speed raster overlay - sounds as if it could be feasible to freeze spinning objects.......
What do you guys think ???
Thanks again for your interest and input......
aero star
Ha ha top idea I fly rc heli's as well, 600n fbl and Mcpx at the moment.
I have nothing to offer on the side of development / programing but would be happy to test if you get it going.
Cheers
Dean
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk
Your asking to change fps on the fly rather than shutter speed.
3.2k rpm is around 540 cycles a sec, counting every 10 will still need 54 fps. I think once your down to those levels it will begin to be hard to compare rpm changes.
Even if the above is correct and possible it will be really hard to get image detection with that precision for it to automatically tell the user what rpm it is spinning at.
Your probably better off analysing the sound coming from the motor..
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk
My phone shows ive around 120 to 140 ram is that enough so that the phone functions smothly without laggings? And i wanna know what free ram u guys have while using ur phone ....
Sent from my DROID3 using XDA App
I mean total memory free***
Sent from my DROID3 using XDA App
Around 100MB +/- 50 free is nominal, I guess.
The way I understand it:
It's going to vary quite a bit, depending on what your doing, number of additional serviced installed, etc. But generally speaking, Android is a very different animal compared to -- say -- Windows. Free RAM doesn't really have an affect on performance, it's just RAM that's not being exploited. There are several parameters that tell the OS how much RAM should be free in a number of different circumstances, also when and how often to kill other services. i.e. As RAM usage increases, apps and services with increasingly higher priorities will be killed to free up RAM. So like if you run Angry Birds, you may start with 100MB free which will drop down to say 70 maybe even 50, but after a few minutes of running, the OS begins to try to free up memory to get it back to what ever the desired free RAM is set to. So after a few minutes, your RAM may go all the way back up to 100MB. Where Windows would just start to pound away at a page file on the hard drive, Android will start to kill applications then eventually kill lower priority services in order to free up the RAM it needs.
So basically every time you run a RAM heavy program, Android will start to kill the previously used programs (settings screen, browser, facebook, whatever), as they are now deemed lower priority. It's always fighting to maintain a certain about of RAM.
I have an average of about 150mb on the latest CyangenMod build (not ICS). However once I start up my phone and run the auto kill after about 10 minutes, I can have 200+ (sometimes as high as 250).
Bobbar said it well in terms of how much you need. To be honest, when I was on the stock rom, I would sometimes have less than 70mb free, yet my phone still wouldn't lag much. You can help with any launcher lag by disabling desktop animations and such.
I'm generally in the range of 60 - 90 MB free RAM at any given moment. My D3 does not lag at all. What you are reporting is absolutely fine.
My first phone regularly reported 25 - 40 MB free RAM at any given moment. Android runs fine on the D3 - it's best not to spend too much time worrying about it, IMO.
If you have a bunch of RAM free all the time it just means you're losing out on multitasking. Some people tweak their OOM values and such so that they have copious amounts of free RAM, this is not necessarily a good thing. IMO
Android aggressively pre-loads applications into memory. The most ideal situation is actually higher memory usage - as most apps don't need ridiculous amounts of memory to operate, and more apps cached in memory means faster launch times for those specific apps.
If you have a bunch of apps not closing and lagging your phone then try Auto killer.
Sent from my XT862 using XDA App
I've got 240MB free at any given moment with stock ROM and doesn't lag at all.
So, not to get off topic, what exactly do all these newer phones need 1GB of RAM for? Just to load up more apps into memory? I get it, it should make them load up faster...but is it necessary on Android?
It just blows me away how much these manufacturers charge for phones these days. Seems like we're just getting into the same kind of specs 'arms race' that people have been going through on their PCs for a while now, just so they can try to make more money. That's pretty sad, considering I have a fine experience with the D3 and G2x.
BenSWoodruff said:
So, not to get off topic, what exactly do all these newer phones need 1GB of RAM for? Just to load up more apps into memory? I get it, it should make them load up faster...but is it necessary on Android?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1 gig of RAM would be a great thing, for instance for running GNU/Linux in chroot, which I do...
The prob is the Droid 3 doesn't have anywhere near enough total RAM, not to speak of free RAM.
BenSWoodruff said:
So, not to get off topic, what exactly do all these newer phones need 1GB of RAM for? Just to load up more apps into memory? I get it, it should make them load up faster...but is it necessary on Android?
It just blows me away how much these manufacturers charge for phones these days. Seems like we're just getting into the same kind of specs 'arms race' that people have been going through on their PCs for a while now, just so they can try to make more money. That's pretty sad, considering I have a fine experience with the D3 and G2x.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some.of.the Phones with 1gig ram have the lapdock, it docks with a keyboard/screen to be a pseudo laptop. When docked half the ram is set aside for the lapdock
Sent from my XT860 using xda premium
BenSWoodruff said:
So, not to get off topic, what exactly do all these newer phones need 1GB of RAM for? Just to load up more apps into memory? I get it, it should make them load up faster...but is it necessary on Android?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, Android has gotten fatter, for one. Another would be Motos Webtop.
The more memory you have, the more apps you can have stored in it at any one time. Devices with small amounts of RAM (256 or so) may only be able run one major app at a time. But once you get into the 512 - 1GB+ range, users can freely switch between several heavy apps without them getting killed to free RAM. So you could switch between Angry Birds, then the browser, then YouTube or Email and Messaging without having to relaunch any of them.
So manufacturers tossing in more and more RAM does end up being a pretty good selling point.
It just blows me away how much these manufacturers charge for phones these days. Seems like we're just getting into the same kind of specs 'arms race' that people have been going through on their PCs for a while now, just so they can try to make more money. That's pretty sad, considering I have a fine experience with the D3 and G2x.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just looks at how powerful these devices are compared to just a few years ago. The innovation and power is increasing at an almost logarithmic rate. The price for a high-end smart phone has remained about the same, but the rate at which they are being cycled for newer, faster devices is crazy. So, in this sense, it may be accurate to compare it to PCs. But, it's only us enthusiasts that really feel the hit to the pocket book, because we always want to be on the bleeding edge. And most users, average users, will stay with the same device for a long time, they don't feel the same 'pain' as the enthusiasts group.
Back in 2005, before the iPhone and all that stuff, a smart would cost you almost $700 and it came with a steaming, stinking pile of Windows Mobile. We have it so good these days.
I have around 200MB at boot (CM7).
Yes, that should be enough RAM to use most apps without lagging. That's about what I had with stock, and I rarely ran out.
aman321 said:
My phone shows ive around 120 to 140 ram is that enough so that the phone functions smothly without laggings? And i wanna know what free ram u guys have while using ur phone ....
Sent from my DROID3 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
512mb it's a little down for me... because i like multitasking and for example if you download something from a web page, using opera mobile or stock browser and you open facebook's app while you listening music (poweramp or winamp) it will kill your internet browser (cancel your download) due to your less ram avaible.
A great solution for us would be if we can enable a swap on our droids but it seems to be difficult (or imposible due to our locked bootloaders)... but if somoene is interested here is a link to the current topic http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1407671
With swap enabled our device will move to virtual memory our background apps leaving free ram to our current app.
im facing a huge problem now .. when im playing dead trigger 2 and if i go home and make a call and went back to game it restarts it self !! so why this for ??
Is not about how many GB of ram do you have but about how many application still open in background.
How do you go back to the game? I mean after finish the call you click on the Dead Trigger 2 icon on desktop?
no from recent menu !!
Ok, so when you made a call the phone needs more ram and practically Android kill all the unnecessary apps in background and one of them is the game which eat pretty much ram. It's happen to me too with heavy games. Almost all of them.
I have the same problem... thats something I can't just ignore. Android should be the multitasking king compared to systems like iOS and WindowsPhone because of things like the priority of processes...
AntiDroid said:
I have the same problem... thats something I can't just ignore. Android should be the multitasking king compared to systems like iOS and WindowsPhone because of things like the priority of processes...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of curse but actually games are not priority to android and that how it's working. With small games this not happen because they use less ram. For android the ram is the only matter.
eclyptos said:
Of curse but actually games are not priority to android and that how it's working. With small games this not happen because they use less ram. For android the ram is the only matter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know. Every process has the same priority.
When I first read about the Android RAM management, I thought: "Wow, great idea", but know I see the result compared to other system using the "old one" and I am just jealous.. :/ 2 GB should be more than enough to keep it while switching the app for ~ 30 seconds, I hope 4.4 does it better
i can multitask with my brother"s iphone 4s better than my z1 !! i played dead trigger 2 and made a call then returned back to the game and every thing is ok !!
Mohaakotb said:
i can multitask with my brother"s iphone 4s better than my z1 !! i played dead trigger 2 and made a call then returned back to the game and every thing is ok !!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iOS is NOT Android.
theoretical number of ram is 2 but the actual size is around 1.9gb more or less depending on the device, even in PC's its the same!
for example, a 320GB hdd is only 298gb in actual size as the other reserved for cache and HDD firmware!
u don't find the full exact numbers as i explained to you
Just2Cause said:
iOS is NOT Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did he say that it is android? He just twisted the knife
Nidhal AKA the king said:
theoretical number of ram is 2 but the actual size is around 1.9gb more or less depending on the device, even in PC's its the same!
for example, a 320GB hdd is only 298gb in actual size as the other reserved for cache and HDD firmware!
u don't find the full exact numbers as i explained to you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is only partially true.
HDD Manufacturers like to measure HDD sizes using the decimal system which means 1GB = 10^9 (= 1000000000) Bytes. In other technical appliances they are measured using the binary system meaning 1GB (more correctly 1Gibibyte) = 2^30 (= 1073741824) Bytes. File systems are measured using the binary systems, this is why one could think an HDD has less storage than what is written on.
Ram uses the binary system, so 2 GB of Ram mean 2048 MB. The reason why there is less then 2 GB available is because part of it is being reserved for the GPU, much like on Computers with integrated graphics.
OfficerTux said:
This is only partially true.
HDD Manufacturers like to measure HDD sizes using the decimal system which means 1GB = 10^9 (= 1000000000) Bytes. In other technical appliances they are measured using the binary system meaning 1GB (more correctly 1Gibibyte) = 2^30 (= 1073741824) Bytes. File systems are measured using the binary systems, this is why one could think an HDD has less storage than what is written on.
Ram uses the binary system, so 2 GB of Ram mean 2024 MB. The reason why there is less then 2 GB available is because part of it is being reserved for the GPU, much like on Computers with integrated graphics.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah i know, i totally agree
he thought he'd find the full amount of ram as 2gb in the specs!
Anyway I would also like a refined app priority system. I do like Androids Ram Management in general, but it is quite annoying that large games need to reload just because you switch apps for some seconds.
OfficerTux said:
Ram uses the binary system, so 2 GB of Ram mean 2024 MB. The reason why there is less then 2 GB available is because part of it is being reserved for the GPU, much like on Computers with integrated graphics.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you mean 2048 MB The rest is spot on - reserved RAM has *nothing* to do with the binary vs. decimal issues found in hard drives.
xasbo said:
I think you mean 2048 MB The rest is spot on - reserved RAM has *nothing* to do with the binary vs. decimal issues found in hard drives.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Corrected
OfficerTux said:
Anyway I would also like a refined app priority system. I do like Androids Ram Management in general, but it is quite annoying that large games need to reload just because you switch apps for some seconds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The solution for don't lose the progress on games is to turn on the Airplane mode before gaming so no body can interrupt the progress...ahahah...
Anyway seems like a joke but did you imagine that, after 1 hour somebody call you and you loose everything in the game...:crying:
Hi guys!
I don't have my N6 for long and I decided to try playing some games on it recently (nothing really heavy graphically), and although it runs mostly fine there is a significant lag existent.
I use my device with stock ROM and unrooted, so no changes from my side, and tried to play some games like: The Banner Saga (really laggy), Evocreo (some lag, bearable), Hitman GO and Lara Croft GO (runs fine). On my former Moto G 2014 they ran fine.
Also sometimes, in general use (rare, but is there) and on videos inside apps (also not frequent) I notice some lag also.
My question is: Is this normal? Is there anything I can test (config, custom ROM or kernel, etc...)?
Oh, and return/trade the device is not an option for me, so if there isn't something that I can do I guess I'll have to learn to live with it (which I can do actually, just wanted to see if there were options before accepting this).
Thanks!
There are many ways to find the source of the lag. I would use a logcat. That would be step one. After that I am not sure. No one I know games on their phones.
zelendel said:
There are many ways to find the source of the lag. I would use a logcat. That would be step one. After that I am not sure. No one I know games on their phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But is it possible to get logcat without root? Because my device is unrooted and locked bootloader, so if this need root it will be a little tough to get it.
luishr said:
But is it possible to get logcat without root? Because my device is unrooted and locked bootloader, so if this need root it will be a little tough to get it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you dont need root for a logcat.you can use adb for one.
simms22 said:
you dont need root for a logcat.you can use adb for one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cool! I'll try to get one then and take a look, and post here just in case.
There are generally two sources of "lag" (lets call it slowdowns, since lag implies operation latency, whereas slow implies both latency and throughput); crypto, and graphics.
The crypto slowdown is because the Nexus 6, by default, encrypts its userdata partition, and uses software routines to perform the work, rather than dedicated acceleration op's or crypto block. This can be solved by using a boot image that has been modified such that it doesn't force encryption on you. Downside is, of course, that you won't be encrypted.
The graphics slowdown is due to excessive display resolution. This device has a display of 2560x1440 pixels. Sort-of. What I mean by that is that AMOLED cheats -- it is 2560x1440 in GREEN, but only 2560x720 in red and blue. Regardless of cheating, it PROCESSES all the pixels fully, as if they were all actually there. So you're processing for 3.7 million pixels, compared to only 2.1 million on a 1920x1080 display (like a Nexus 5 or 5x).
To be quite honest, a conventional LCD at 1920x1080, even at 6 inches, looks better than AMOLED CHEATING, but AMOLED uses marginally less power. I'd happily trade a little bit of battery life on this for the better looks of conventional LCD.
doitright said:
There are generally two sources of "lag" (lets call it slowdowns, since lag implies operation latency, whereas slow implies both latency and throughput); crypto, and graphics.
The crypto slowdown is because the Nexus 6, by default, encrypts its userdata partition, and uses software routines to perform the work, rather than dedicated acceleration op's or crypto block. This can be solved by using a boot image that has been modified such that it doesn't force encryption on you. Downside is, of course, that you won't be encrypted.
The graphics slowdown is due to excessive display resolution. This device has a display of 2560x1440 pixels. Sort-of. What I mean by that is that AMOLED cheats -- it is 2560x1440 in GREEN, but only 2560x720 in red and blue. Regardless of cheating, it PROCESSES all the pixels fully, as if they were all actually there. So you're processing for 3.7 million pixels, compared to only 2.1 million on a 1920x1080 display (like a Nexus 5 or 5x).
To be quite honest, a conventional LCD at 1920x1080, even at 6 inches, looks better than AMOLED CHEATING, but AMOLED uses marginally less power. I'd happily trade a little bit of battery life on this for the better looks of conventional LCD.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was the kind of explanation I was looking for, thanks! It is not even bothering me anymore, since I'm not trying to play many games and the rest seems OK (with some very minor hiccups sometimes).
Thanks again!