OK, so I've had my Droid 4 since it came out in 2012, and finally replaced it with a Galaxy S7 and the keyboard case.
I wanted to play around a bit with RSD Lite and flash all the different firmware versions, as part of a wallpaper dump project I'm doing. I knew at the time that once you updated to ICS, you could not go back to Gingerbread. But it's now four years later, and I'm just curious what the technical reason for this is... it just tells me "flash failed"
With the original Droid you were able to go from 2.0 to 2.3 and vice versa easily, it was just a matter of putting the phone in flash mode and using the .sbf. Is it possible to use the 2.3 system.img with the newer baseband or whatever?
The Droid 4 has a locked bootloader. It prevents older firmware from being flashed, kind of how on newer Samsung devices, you can't downgrade the version because of KNOX and a qfuse trip. I'm not sure of the specifics on the Droid 4, but it should be a similar concept.
Don't the other Droids (1 and 2) have locked bootloaders too? It's a GOOD thing so you don't perma-brick by trying to flash garbage code to it.
drfsupercenter said:
Don't the other Droids (1 and 2) have locked bootloaders too? It's a GOOD thing so you don't perma-brick by trying to flash garbage code to it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Droid 2 and Droid 2 Global had locked bootloaders, but the OG Droid didn't. It had a fully unlocked bootloader. I have two of them, and it was nearly impossible to brick them. As long as you don't mess with the bootloader, then you have one way to restore it, even if the system and recovery become corrupted (fastboot, or RSD Lite in this case).
eragon5779 said:
The Droid 2 and Droid 2 Global had locked bootloaders, but the OG Droid didn't. It had a fully unlocked bootloader. I have two of them, and it was nearly impossible to brick them. As long as you don't mess with the bootloader, then you have one way to restore it, even if the system and recovery become corrupted (fastboot, or RSD Lite in this case).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah yeah, I noticed that.
I was trying to collect SBF files recently and wanted to verify all the ones I had... on the original Droid I was able to go back and forth between the original 2.0 and the latest 2.2.3 update; on my Droid 2 anything older than the most recent would leave me with a "MEM_MAP Blank" error in the bootloader.
However, the part that I don't understand... isn't the "OK to Program, Connect USB Data Cable" part of said bootloader? If it was fully unlocked, you could write a bunch of zeroes to it and you'd be left with a brick you couldn't recover from. That, to me, is the benefit of the locked bootloaders...
Similarly, you can flash ClockworkMod to both the D1 and D2, but on the D2 it requires a "bootstrap" which I imagine is similar to Safestrap on the Droid 4. I assume the custom recovery on the original Droid replaces the stock recovery, but it leaves that bootloader intact so you can flash back to 100% unrooted stock. So how is that any different than what the D2 bootstrap and D4 Safestrap do?
And furthermore... even using the bootstrap/Safestrap, if you try to flash a nandroid backup from an older version, it won't boot, you'll just get a black screen. I don't get that part either, because the bootloader is left intact during that process, wouldn't that be like live-booting Windows XP on a Windows 7 computer by plugging in an external hard drive? (Especially so with the Droid 4 and Safestrap, where you literally store all the partitions as files on the internal storage)
drfsupercenter said:
Ah yeah, I noticed that.
I was trying to collect SBF files recently and wanted to verify all the ones I had... on the original Droid I was able to go back and forth between the original 2.0 and the latest 2.2.3 update; on my Droid 2 anything older than the most recent would leave me with a "MEM_MAP Blank" error in the bootloader.
However, the part that I don't understand... isn't the "OK to Program, Connect USB Data Cable" part of said bootloader? If it was fully unlocked, you could write a bunch of zeroes to it and you'd be left with a brick you couldn't recover from. That, to me, is the benefit of the locked bootloaders...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Technically, yes. You could brick it by doing that. But I never once touched the bootloader, or even used RSD Lite, until I got to the Droid 2 Global. Even then, I never touched the bootloader. You shouldn't ever have to (unless you unlock it through an exploit on a device, like some newer phones).
Similarly, you can flash ClockworkMod to both the D1 and D2, but on the D2 it requires a "bootstrap" which I imagine is similar to Safestrap on the Droid 4. I assume the custom recovery on the original Droid replaces the stock recovery, but it leaves that bootloader intact so you can flash back to 100% unrooted stock. So how is that any different than what the D2 bootstrap and D4 Safestrap do?
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Click to collapse
I don't remember how the Droid 2 worked in terms of exploits, but I know that the Droid 4 uses kexec, or kernel execution. Check here for some info on kexec (for regular Linux).
And furthermore... even using the bootstrap/Safestrap, if you try to flash a nandroid backup from an older version, it won't boot, you'll just get a black screen. I don't get that part either, because the bootloader is left intact during that process, wouldn't that be like live-booting Windows XP on a Windows 7 computer by plugging in an external hard drive? (Especially so with the Droid 4 and Safestrap, where you literally store all the partitions as files on the internal storage)
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Click to collapse
Untouched systems require the corresponding bootloader or older. The Galaxy S5 could run a newer system on an older bootloader, but not vice versa. Even Cyanogenmod requires a specific bootloader sometimes (Droid 2 Global, for example).
eragon5779 said:
Technically, yes. You could brick it by doing that. But I never once touched the bootloader, or even used RSD Lite, until I got to the Droid 2 Global. Even then, I never touched the bootloader. You shouldn't ever have to (unless you unlock it through an exploit on a device, like some newer phones).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used RSD Lite even back then, because I had rooted my phone and wanted to unroot it for something. Also if I recall, before ROM Manager had a nice recovery install feature, the only way to do it was to flash a .sbf file with the recovery partition to the phone.
Either way, I see people complaining about locked bootloaders and it makes me wonder why that's a bad thing. With the Droid 2 and 4 (and I assume 3 as well, I don't have one), you can only really "soft brick", it's always repairable via RSD Lite, and that's what Motorola themselves would do too. If you somehow bricked an original Droid by corrupting the bootloader, I don't think even THEY could fix it! Never hurts to have some sort of brick recovery.
eragon5779 said:
Untouched systems require the corresponding bootloader or older. The Galaxy S5 could run a newer system on an older bootloader, but not vice versa. Even Cyanogenmod requires a specific bootloader sometimes (Droid 2 Global, for example)
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Click to collapse
I guess I'm fundamentally mis-understanding what exactly a bootloader does, then. You would think if the encryption changed, the older versions would still work but NOT the newer versions.
Would this be of any use?
https://motorola-global-portal.custhelp.com/app/standalone/bootloader/unlock-your-device-a
drfsupercenter said:
I used RSD Lite even back then, because I had rooted my phone and wanted to unroot it for something. Also if I recall, before ROM Manager had a nice recovery install feature, the only way to do it was to flash a .sbf file with the recovery partition to the phone.
Either way, I see people complaining about locked bootloaders and it makes me wonder why that's a bad thing. With the Droid 2 and 4 (and I assume 3 as well, I don't have one), you can only really "soft brick", it's always repairable via RSD Lite, and that's what Motorola themselves would do too. If you somehow bricked an original Droid by corrupting the bootloader, I don't think even THEY could fix it! Never hurts to have some sort of brick recovery.
I guess I'm fundamentally mis-understanding what exactly a bootloader does, then. You would think if the encryption changed, the older versions would still work but NOT the newer versions.
Would this be of any use?
https://motorola-global-portal.custhelp.com/app/standalone/bootloader/unlock-your-device-a
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really. The bootloader always has been and always will be locked on the Droid 4. Once kexec was achieved, unlocking wasn't looked at anymore.
And in terms of what a bootloader is, read around on XDA. There are plenty of threads on it.
Just an idea, I'm thinking there's a difference between a bootROM and the bootloader on a phone.
I'm thinking of the Nintendo 3DS as an example because I've done a bit of 3DS hacking. The 3DS has a bootROM, which means it cannot be overwritten and as a result Nintendo cannot update it even if they wanted to. They update other bits of code, but the bootROM is and always will be the same because it's readonly memory.
From what I gather, since the Motorola phones have had updates that reprogram (and update) the bootloader, meaning it has to be flashable somehow. What people have done with the 3DS is actually solder some wires to the NAND which lets you read/write it like an SD card. Could something like that be done on a Motorola phone? Even if the fastboot stuff isn't the full code, you could probably dump the oldest version of the bootloader from a phone that hasn't been upgraded (if there even are any out there in the wild...) and others could use it on theirs.
Given that you can buy a Droid 4 on eBay for like $40 it's probably not even a big deal, but it would be an interesting undertaking nonetheless. Especially for those who know how to solder. I don't know if phones actually use a NAND or not, but given "nandroid" I was assuming.
drfsupercenter said:
Just an idea, I'm thinking there's a difference between a bootROM and the bootloader on a phone.
I'm thinking of the Nintendo 3DS as an example because I've done a bit of 3DS hacking. The 3DS has a bootROM, which means it cannot be overwritten and as a result Nintendo cannot update it even if they wanted to. They update other bits of code, but the bootROM is and always will be the same because it's readonly memory.
From what I gather, since the Motorola phones have had updates that reprogram (and update) the bootloader, meaning it has to be flashable somehow. What people have done with the 3DS is actually solder some wires to the NAND which lets you read/write it like an SD card. Could something like that be done on a Motorola phone? Even if the fastboot stuff isn't the full code, you could probably dump the oldest version of the bootloader from a phone that hasn't been upgraded (if there even are any out there in the wild...) and others could use it on theirs.
Given that you can buy a Droid 4 on eBay for like $40 it's probably not even a big deal, but it would be an interesting undertaking nonetheless. Especially for those who know how to solder. I don't know if phones actually use a NAND or not, but given "nandroid" I was assuming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a process called JTAGing and is used on a lot of phones. But at this point, doing so is kind of pointless. All ROMs are made using kexec, and unless you can a) figure out the pin layout for the JTAG without killing the phone and b) build a kernel that doesn't use kexec, then there isn't much point to it at this point. We have working 6.0 ROMs, and I can deal with the extra boot time that kexec takes (which is, in my opinion, the only thing that would be improved from unlocking the bootloader).
Yeah, JTAG is basically the same thing I'm talking about, just that on a 3DS the pinout is such that it can be read/write like an SD card instead of needing a parallel connection.
I was thinking more for being able to flash any SBF (or in the case of the Droid 3/4, the XML and image files) to the phone. There probably aren't many people interested in actually downgrading, since the newest OTA update can be rooted and you can use kexec, but I'm more of a hobbyist and it was something I was interested in doing.
Plus, you could probably redo the SBF/XMLs to not update the bootloader (if it really can run newer code as you said) so that way you can just go back and forth between the first version of the OS to the newest freely, instead of being locked to the newest as you are now.
Related
Hi everyone. I'm the proud owner of a new Droid 3, and I have some questions about ROMs and stuff that I'm hoping someone can answer:
1. As I understand, the Droid 3's bootloader is locked. As I understand it, the /boot partition is signed and we can't modify it, right? Are any other partitions signed this way? What about any kind of encryption or something on the partitions? I read somewhere that certain Motorola phones with OMAP chipsets have encrypted stuff. Is the Droid 3 one of these devices? If so, what is encrypted?
2. What ways around whatever verification on the device exist? Is 2nd-init a technique used on this device, like on the Droid 2 and other Motorola phones?
3. As I understand it, SafeStrap boots the phone from /preinstall, not system, and leaves /system intact when flashing stuff. Is this correct? What's the point? Every other Android device I've used doesn't have anything like that (afaik). And why doesn't it do the same for /data?
4. On the topic of SafeStrap, if I wanna dual boot Motoblur and Cyanogenmod, can I? (I know this is possible on the Bionic, so I'm assuming the same is true for the Droid 3) How?
5. This phone supports fastboot commands, which is unusual for Motorola devices, right? What would happen if I issued it a "fastbook oem unlock" command?
6. What is "BP," as in "BP Tools?"
Thanks a ton
-Zane
ZaneKaminski said:
Hi everyone. I'm the proud owner of a new Droid 3, and I have some questions about ROMs and stuff that I'm hoping someone can answer:
1. As I understand, the Droid 3's bootloader is locked. As I understand it, the /boot partition is signed and we can't modify it, right? Are any other partitions signed this way? What about any kind of encryption or something on the partitions? I read somewhere that certain Motorola phones with OMAP chipsets have encrypted stuff. Is the Droid 3 one of these devices? If so, what is encrypted?
2. What ways around whatever verification on the device exist? Is 2nd-init a technique used on this device, like on the Droid 2 and other Motorola phones?
3. As I understand it, SafeStrap boots the phone from /preinstall, not system, and leaves /system intact when flashing stuff. Is this correct? What's the point? Every other Android device I've used doesn't have anything like that (afaik). And why doesn't it do the same for /data?
4. On the topic of SafeStrap, if I wanna dual boot Motoblur and Cyanogenmod, can I? (I know this is possible on the Bionic, so I'm assuming the same is true for the Droid 3) How?
5. This phone supports fastboot commands, which is unusual for Motorola devices, right? What would happen if I issued it a "fastbook oem unlock" command?
6. What is "BP," as in "BP Tools?"
Thanks a ton
-Zane
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Zane,
1. Yes, the bootloader is locked. And more than just the boot partition are signed. Recovery, System and a few others as well. I don't know about encryption support for the OMAP chipsets, but I do know that the chips can enforce the signatures and md5 type verification of partitions. I'm not sure that the Droid 3 is actually making use of this feature. I believe the signature is currently stored in a table on the cdt.bin partition. Several people have tried to edit that partition by hand, erasing the check for signatures on certain partitions and none have been successful.
2. For custom AOSP ROMs we are using a logwrapper hijack to 2nd-init the Droid 3 just like the D2.
3. You are correct. Safestrap uses the /preinstall partition as a 2nd-system. And I'm not sure why it's never been done before, but the idea behind Safestrap is fairly simple:
3a. How do we protect our ability to enter recovery (even after flashing system) when in almost all cases any system flash will over-write the hijack needed to enter recovery in the first place? Flashing a ROM on a locked phone is a touchy issue. And I can't count the # of "I'm bootlooped" or "I'm bricked" posts that you see on these boards because of that. This isn't the case with unlocked bootloaders. They ALWAYS have access to recovery and have a way out. And that makes flashing ROMs alot more fun.
3b. Enter Safestrap which is essentially a 2nd-system Bootstrap. It does the hijack to provide access to recovery and custom ROM booting. The ROMs don't have to worry about it. Safestrap is still in very early stages. The interface isn't as easy as it should be to use. I'll work on that as I get more time.
3c. You bring up a good point about "data". MotoBlur and CM7 have very different sets of userdata, and in some ways they're incompaible. Moto likes to throw security information on the /data partition in various spots and CM7 obviously doesn't do that. I have actually hung at the boot when swapping systems and not changing my user data around. I know there's a video of Deodexed doing this exact thing on his Bionic, but in most cases you can't just "flip the switch" on 2nd-system and boot up correctly. Currently, in Safestrap you need to backup your current ROM's data and then restore/wipe the data you want for the new ROM your going to. This process is time consuming and will be ironed out with the next release. It will perform a mini system-specific backup/restore of just userdata when you enable/disable the 2nd-system. I would have stuck the 2nd-system data on another partition ... if we had another spare one to use.
4. This is the current "default" setup for Safestrap. MotoBlur on the primary system and people are testing CM7 on the 2nd-system. You can download the files here:
http://hash-of-codes.blogspot.com/2011/10/beta-testing-safestrap-w-cm7.html
5. The fastboot oem unlock command doesn't work. Been tried.
6. BP = Baseband Processor. "BP-Tools mode" is special boot mode which opens access to the BP via Motorola Software and a USB cord. Most will never use it.
EDIT: Sorry for the wall of text.. good questions.
-delete- realized Hashcode gave a far better response that I could even dream up.
Sent from my DROID3 using xda premium
That was the best answer to any question (or, well, a bunch of questions) I've read in a long time. Thanks so much.
-Zane
jjhiza said:
-delete- realized Hashcode gave a far better response that I could even dream up.
Sent from my DROID3 using xda premium
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Click to collapse
Such good questions and such a good response are worthy of a sticky/faq imo
I have been hearing a lot that the DROID 4 and the DROID Razr are very simaliar... If thats true then is there a Possibility that the Razr fastboot files cold work on the DROID 4?
The hardware is identical.....
EXCEPT for the keyboard (maybe the screen, too??). If you have a spare Droid 4 laying around, why not?
For even the above casual user this might be a little much. I haven't had much luck with getting my fully functioning Droid 4 to be recognized by RSDLite.
Although, I do want to know from the developer here, HOW CAN I HELP??
I don't want to just take take take, some of us want to give back.
I bricked my spare Droid 4, and everyone should be really careful with SafeStrap, and backup everything (including the webtop).
RueTheDayTrebek said:
EXCEPT for the keyboard (maybe the screen, too??). If you have a spare Droid 4 laying around, why not?
For even the above casual user this might be a little much. I haven't had much luck with getting my fully functioning Droid 4 to be recognized by RSDLite.
Although, I do want to know from the developer here, HOW CAN I HELP??
I don't want to just take take take, some of us want to give back.
I bricked my spare Droid 4, and everyone should be really careful with SafeStrap, and backup everything (including the webtop).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Droid RAZR fastboot files would probably work on the Droid 4, IF we had unlocked bootloaders. I have tried every combination of DR fastboot files on the D4 and the /system/ partition is never properly signed for the D4.
We need a full Droid 4 update or Droid 4 fastboot files to get back to working order, the Razr won't cut it.
Without trying to sound too stupid here(lol), but could we not make a stock nandroid backup and dump the image in the fastboot file by chance, and change the md5 inside zip?
The problem is not hardware, but rather encryption. Quite simply, we need a properly signed and encrypted software bundle to load on the locked bootloader. If we could sign and encrypt the bundle ourselves, the locked bootloader would not be an issue. The Droid Razr is a different phone with a different encryption key, so we can't use those fastboot files on a D4. We also can't sign our own Nandroid, so we can't load that either.
Sent from my DROID4 using XDA
Is there anything that I can do to help?
I'm really eager to get into Android development, and would be willing to pursue the path in getting these signed drivers.
I don't think this will be a problem for much longer. http://www.droid-life.com/2012/03/20/motorola-razr-gsm-bootloader-bypass-discovered-could-work-on-lte-razr/
problematic said:
I don't think this will be a problem for much longer. http://www.droid-life.com/2012/03/20/motorola-razr-gsm-bootloader-bypass-discovered-could-work-on-lte-razr/
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Click to collapse
Yeeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!! Oh, this would be EXCELLENT.
GOOGLE IT!!!! Fastboot files are now out for the Droid 4!!!!!
My Droid 4 is bricked, but out seems to me that if I could get safestrap recovery in, I could boot any working "safe" ROM and leave my non-functioning "unsafe" system alone until the day a fastboot image becomes available.
The only wrinkle is that since the current OS is bricked, I can't load the Safestrap recovery via Apk. Is there any way to load it using one of the remaining capabilities in the phone (normal recovery, fastboot, etc.)?
I definitely don't have the full technical ability to answer your question, but to get the ball rolling:
Can you get adb up and running? If you can't, my guess is no... If you can, somebody who knows more than I do might be able to get you going...
Call Motorola or the wireless vendor where you got your phone and play dumb.
How did you brick your phone?
I bricked mine the first time by restoring a saved stock rom that I had made. Little did I know, but I got the webtop save mixed up, and totally soft-bricked my handset.
Safestrap is a good alternative to having nothing, but you should read everything there is to know about it before installing it. Conceptually, it doesn't share a whole lot with the original clockworkmod recovery.
RueTheDayTrebek said:
Call Motorola or the wireless vendor where you got your phone and play dumb.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've thought about it. (1) there's stuff on the internal "sdcard" (/sdcard, as distinct from the removable real SDC) I'd like to recover if I could, so restoring the phone I have right now is preferable, unless restoring from a fastboot recovery wipes /sdcard).. and (2) I hate the idea of "cheating" on a warranty for a self-inflicted product failure, both on the ethics of it and on the remote possibility I could get caught.
How did you brick your phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had safely rooted the phone (Droid 4 Utility is awesome) and installed Titanium Backup Pro. I was playing around with freezing bloatware, deleting bloatware, and the like... the last thing I did before rebooting and never coming back was integrating system application dalvik cache into the ROM and then undoing that integration. But I can't be sure that was the killer, since I hadn't rebooted for a while before that... one of the other changes earlier could have been it.
Safestrap is a good alternative to having nothing, but you should read everything there is to know about it before installing it. Conceptually, it doesn't share a whole lot with the original clockworkmod recovery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I recognize it's a very different world because of the locked bootstrap, so I'd obviously have to adapt to the differences, but just the ability to get some use out of the phone before the fastboot recovery leaks would be a good start. My needs are not great. Something besides repeated reboots ("Droid..." every 10 seconds until the battery runs flat) would make me happier than a pig in slop.
podspi said:
I definitely don't have the full technical ability to answer your question, but to get the ball rolling:
Can you get adb up and running? If you can't, my guess is no... If you can, somebody who knows more than I do might be able to get you going...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah. The times I've tried, the phone never boots to the point that the USB debugging driver on the PC ever sees the phone ("adb devices" lists nothing).
About the only interaction I can get to is to force the phone into fastboot and plugging in with the fastboot USB driver on the PC. RSD Lite does see the phone then. Too bad I don't have a fastboot recovery to use at that point.
(originally posted in the flashfire threads, but it was suggested I post here)
My apologies if this has already been covered (I could not find an answer in searching)
I appreciate that it can be dangerous to use flashfire to flash the bootloader partition and that one should use fastboot. My question is:
If I download a FW package and the bootloader has changed, what happens if I flash to the kernel, system, cache, vendor etc... and do not flash to bootloader and radio? Will the flash fail; will the phone soft brick; will nothing happen and I can go merrily along?
The question derives from this: If the phone can become unusable with a mismatched bootload and radio to the rest of the images, it would require to unpack the package and check for a version prior to flashing other partitions (so I assume). If I go that far, would it not be easier to not use flashfire and simply manually flash the required files when updates are available?
Thanks
N6, unlocked and rooted (previously always updating latest patches and rerooting myself (using TWRP), but wishing to try flashire)
RLBL said:
(originally posted in the flashfire threads, but it was suggested I post here)
My apologies if this has already been covered (I could not find an answer in searching)
I appreciate that it can be dangerous to use flashfire to flash the bootloader partition and that one should use fastboot. My question is:
If I download a FW package and the bootloader has changed, what happens if I flash to the kernel, system, cache, vendor etc... and do not flash to bootloader and radio? Will the flash fail; will the phone soft brick; will nothing happen and I can go merrily along?
The question derives from this: If the phone can become unusable with a mismatched bootload and radio to the rest of the images, it would require to unpack the package and check for a version prior to flashing other partitions (so I assume). If I go that far, would it not be easier to not use flashfire and simply manually flash the required files when updates are available?
Thanks
N6, unlocked and rooted (previously always updating latest patches and rerooting myself (using TWRP), but wishing to try flashire)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it is really rare that a bootloader flash is required, and a radio update is never required. if you dont flash them, then you just dont flash them, thats all.
I'd add that going to a major update you'll want to pay close attention. The bootloader probably will need updating. e.g. lollipop to MM, the bootloader had to be updated.
The radio is optional and often with trial and error, you'll find a particular one that for your hardware, in your area, you get the best signal. There is a thread with N6 flashable radios here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3066052.
Had you posted that you had an N6 in your original post, I'd have helped you, because that's what I use
ktmom said:
I'd add that going to a major update you'll want to pay close attention. The bootloader probably will need updating. e.g. lollipop to MM, the bootloader had to be updated.
The radio is optional and often with trial and error, you'll find a particular one that for your hardware, in your area, you get the best signal. There is a thread with N6 flashable radios.
Had you posted that you had an N6 in your original post, I'd have helped you, because that's what I use
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
both mm a lollipop, i never updated my bootloader. i did update it after mm though.
ktmom said:
I'd add that going to a major update you'll want to pay close attention. The bootloader probably will need updating. e.g. lollipop to MM, the bootloader had to be updated.
The radio is optional and often with trial and error, you'll find a particular one that for your hardware, in your area, you get the best signal. There is a thread with N6 flashable radios here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3066052.
Had you posted that you had an N6 in your original post, I'd have helped you, because that's what I use
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh That looks interesting. My Cellular signal sucks even though I am supposedly close to some towers. I am going to try using flashfire with these (hope I don't brick myself lol)
So I assume that when N comes out officially and I need to change bootloaders, I would do so via fasboot, then afterwards I can the the updates via fashfire.
RLBL said:
Oh That looks interesting. My Cellular signal sucks even though I am supposedly close to some towers. I am going to try using flashfire with these (hope I don't brick myself lol)
So I assume that when N comes out officially and I need to change bootloaders, I would do so via fasboot, then afterwards I can the the updates via fashfire.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
all the radios, and bootloaders, are available in flashable zip for here on xda as well. to flash via twrp recovery
simms22 said:
all the radios, and bootloaders, are available in flashable zip for here on xda as well. to flash via twrp recovery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cool... But I only used TWRP to flash the SU binaries to root. Now that I am rooted, I figured I could simply go back to stock recovery* and use flashfire going forward.
* I figured that because I had no other use for for a custom recovery presently, I may as well stay completely stock and rooted. Furthermore, from my understanding (which can be wrong) I no longer need a custom recovery to flash/install anything, as flashfire can do it all. Of course that brings one to ask "why am I rooted if I am staying stock?". I root my device so I can simulate a power button press without cancelling smart lock operations (either through tasker shell keyevent, gravity screen, or nova prime swipe gesture). I like not having to use the buttons on my phone
Why get rid of custom recovery? Just leave it and keep a backup on hand, then when there is an issue with basically anything you can just restore your backup instead of freaking out and running here using caps and exclamation marks asking how to fix.
scryan said:
Why get rid of custom recovery? Just leave it and keep a backup on hand, then when there is an issue with basically anything you can just restore your backup instead of freaking out and running here using caps and exclamation marks asking how to fix.
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1 - why use a custom recovery if I do not need to (serious question, not being confrontational - see below)
2 - I totally know how to flash to whatever I want without using any toolkits (and ofc using a custom recovery)
3 - Why would one assume that one panics? (just because I have a low post count and admittedly an Android noob - N6 1st phone - does not mean I am an idiot)
4 - Considering I am not using custom ROMs and staying stock, I would think the likelihood of things going wrong is low (could be totally wrong there lol but I have done everything myself manually since the get go (never even taken an OTA for my upgrades), and never had 1 issue as of yet. This post was a general question in nature. It was not posted because I needed something to be fixed)
If I do not need it, why have it: I am experimenting to see if I can use FF completely stock (and rooted). Please provide some rationale as to why I should keep a custom recovery so I can evaluate (you may be 100% right). The point is: from my understanding one can use FF without a custom recovery so why not try... so far, so good.
On backups: be aware (not that you should care, but you did comment)... I have nothing on my phone that requires backing up at that... I can completely wipe the phone and it only takes time to do a google restore and I am back to where I am (been there, done that. Annoying for time though lol but I have no data on the phone safe from tasker profiles which are on my google drive and easily restored).
And what happens when you flash a bootloader and something screws up? You can't fix it from the stock recovery menu, now can you. So what not have something useful on the recovery partition for that 1 and 1000 chance something goes wrong.... Just my opinion, being I've been flashing phones since the first Android device was released on T-Mobile. The g1 (still have and still flash Roms
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA Free mobile app
RLBL said:
1 - why use a custom recovery if I do not need to (serious question, not being confrontational - see below)
2 - I totally know how to flash to whatever I want without using any toolkits (and ofc using a custom recovery)
3 - Why would one assume that one panics? (just because I have a low post count and admittedly an Android noob - N6 1st phone - does not mean I am an idiot)
4 - Considering I am not using custom ROMs and staying stock, I would think the likelihood of things going wrong is low (could be totally wrong there lol but I have done everything myself manually since the get go (never even taken an OTA for my upgrades), and never had 1 issue as of yet. This post was a general question in nature. It was not posted because I needed something to be fixed)
If I do not need it, why have it: I am experimenting to see if I can use FF completely stock (and rooted). Please provide some rationale as to why I should keep a custom recovery so I can evaluate (you may be 100% right). The point is: from my understanding one can use FF without a custom recovery so why not try... so far, so good.
On backups: be aware (not that you should care, but you did comment)... I have nothing on my phone that requires backing up at that... I can completely wipe the phone and it only takes time to do a google restore and I am back to where I am (been there, done that. Annoying for time though lol but I have no data on the phone safe from tasker profiles which are on my google drive and easily restored).
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1. the only one important thing about having twrp installed.. backups and restores. before dlashing or changing anything, i akways create a backup in twrp. if something doesnt work out, you can always restore your backup, as ive done many many times. its a quicky fix it.
31ken31 said:
And what happens when you flash a bootloader and something screws up? You can't fix it from the stock recovery menu, now can you. So what not have something useful on the recovery partition for that 1 and 1000 chance something goes wrong.... Just my opinion, being I've been flashing phones since the first Android device was released on T-Mobile. The g1 (still have and still flash Roms
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA Free mobile app
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I think that was the whole point of my post was it not? What happens if you DON'T flash a bootloader while using FF (but in the case where it did change)? And like I said, in the 1/1000 chance that something does go wrong and I did not have a backup: Flash the complete package via adb? Like I said, I have nothing to backup, thus nothing to recover. Not saying I shouldn't, just saying I don't. I only used TWRP to gain root access, nothing more (no custom ROMs, kernels, optimizations, anything on my phone...not even local app data saves - I am one of those old farts who uses their phone as a PDA with phone capabilities and that is it. All "data" is cloud based for calendar info etc.)
It was a relatively simple (general) question around some experimentation I am doing to see if it would work if one was completely stock (safe from root); did not think it would turn in an philosophical argument on whether or not one should use a stock recovery (which I have been using a custom up until yesterday, but was thinking about putting it back on this evening anyways, just because)
Anyways, got my answer... thx
simms22 said:
1. the only one important thing about having twrp installed.. backups and restores. before dlashing or changing anything, i akways create a backup in twrp. if something doesnt work out, you can always restore your backup, as ive done many many times. its a quicky fix it.
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Thanks!... Obviously when I do venture into more with the phone I will do that. Currently it is a work and personal device so the only thing I do is flash Google stock builds instead of waiting for OTAs. Not saying I should not have a backup, but I don't. Only once after the 1st flash I re-locked the bootloader (as per instructions). What I waste of time; but it did show me that in a non-efficient disaster recovery, I can get everything back to where I was.
A restore would have been efficient, but I have found that I really have nothing to back up.. yet.
I guess a (off-topic) question I have for you is: What and Why did things not work out? In my case where I am only flashing stock loads (not waiting for OTAs), what could one anticipate going wrong that a re-flash could not recover from, but a restore could? Example a write corruption of a partition and the only thing I can do is boot into recovery as my PC cannot see the phone via adb? Can something like that happen?
Backing up system is what saves your a**
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA Free mobile app
31ken31 said:
Backing up system is what saves your a**
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA Free mobile app
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cool... but... what if you are stock? Save my ass from what? Will a (re)flash of stock binaries not suffice?
Look I appreciate I am sounding argumentative, but I am curious to understand what can happen and why. I can understand the "need" to do it if customizing a device etc... but I am very curious as to why if you are stock:
example:
A stock user unlocks his bootloader so they can flash files straight from google be it OTAs or the complete package. It is not listed anywhere to have a custom recovery in their instructions which would lead one to believe it is not required if flashing said files... I assume something could go wrong of course and the most efficient way is to do a restore from backup... but I also assume one could simply re-flash and start over.
I am not devaluating the merits of a custom recovery; I was just curious if one could use (easily) flash fire without one - and one can. The purpose of the question was two-fold:
- because I was flashing stock, then reflashing twrp to get root I found the process longer than it needed to be so I thought I could use flashfire and have it do it for me.
- then I realized that flashing re-roots as well so I did not need to flash the custom recovery to obtain root. I thought "hey what if I accidentally checked "recovery" and accidentally went back to stock. No harm done as I can move on and still be rooted.
Not sure my butt needs saving to ask. You may be doing something that having backups is a good and safe idea... what if you are not? No harm in still using a custom of course, but it was just a question (I ask such questions so I know in advance why something happened and what to do so I do not come running to forums in all caps as someone else said lol)
off topic: If one has nothing to backup, what is there to restore?
RLBL said:
cool... but... what if you are stock? Save my ass from what? Will a (re)flash of stock binaries not suffice?
Look I appreciate I am sounding argumentative, but I am curious to understand what can happen and why. I can understand the "need" to do it if customizing a device etc... but I am very curious as to why if you are stock:
example:
A stock user unlocks his bootloader so they can flash files straight from google be it OTAs or the complete package. It is not listed anywhere to have a custom recovery in their instructions which would lead one to believe it is not required if flashing said files... I assume something could go wrong of course and the most efficient way is to do a restore from backup... but I also assume one could simply re-flash and start over.
I am not devaluating the merits of a custom recovery; I was just curious if one could use (easily) flash fire without one - and one can. The purpose of the question was two-fold:
- because I was flashing stock, then reflashing twrp to get root I found the process longer than it needed to be so I thought I could use flashfire and have it do it for me.
- then I realized that flashing re-roots as well so I did not need to flash the custom recovery to obtain root. I thought "hey what if I accidentally checked "recovery" and accidentally went back to stock. No harm done as I can move on and still be rooted.
Not sure my butt needs saving to ask. You may be doing something that having backups is a good and safe idea... what if you are not? No harm in still using a custom of course, but it was just a question (I ask such questions so I know in advance why something happened and what to do so I do not come running to forums in all caps as someone else said lol)
off topic: If one has nothing to backup, what is there to restore?
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its all a matter of choice, period.
flashing stock, you dont need to do anything. flashing different mods, custom roms, gapps, or supersu, you need to use twrp recovery. you can even flash twrp to be permenant or flash twrp for a one time use. if you are flashing custom roms/mods regularly, its convieniant to have twrp, if your not it doesnt matter. but the one thing twrp is great for is backing up, in case. and you dont need many back ups, just one recent backup. so you can back up, then get rid of twrp until needed again. anyways, its all a personal choice, and thats all it is. for me, flashing twrp then leaving it makes sense, since ill never ever do anything stock. for you, you have your own needs and wants.
simms22 said:
its all a matter of choice, period.
flashing stock, you dont need to do anything. flashing different mods, custom roms, gapps, or supersu, you need to use twrp recovery. you can even flash twrp to be permenant or flash twrp for a one time use. if you are flashing custom roms/mods regularly, its convieniant to have twrp, if your not it doesnt matter. but the one thing twrp is great for is backing up, in case. and you dont need many back ups, just one recent backup. so you can back up, then get rid of twrp until needed again. anyways, its all a personal choice, and thats all it is. for me, flashing twrp then leaving it makes sense, since ill never ever do anything stock. for you, you have your own needs and wants.
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Thank you for answering the question.
I figure when this phone (or whichever phone) is not my daily driver and no longer linked to sensitive stuff I will start venturing into the domain of custom ROMs and Kernels.
RLBL said:
Thank you for answering the question.
I figure when this phone (or whichever phone) is not my daily driver and no longer linked to sensitive stuff I will start venturing into the domain of custom ROMs and Kernels.
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custom recoveries just make things easier for you, overall, to do stuff. but kernels, that could be the bomb. but you will need to learn about how to use governors/schedulers to make any kind of headways. for example, i use a completely different governor/scheduler(ondemand/deadline) than any other nexus kernel, and i feel that my way makes my phone much better/faster than any other setup. and thats whats important to me
Update: test passed (I knew it would)
With a stock recovery, I was able to use flashfire and upgrade to the latest update and re-root.
If you ever had loaded into recovery in temporary TWRP you'll note that even after formating /data/ and doing an advance wipe (selecting everything), then enter the file manager there is still a bunch of folders and some files throughout your device.
Is there a way to wipe out everything and start completely 100% fresh?
DO NOT DO THIS --- OR --- DO but do not cry about it
I have an answer to my question and it is as I suspected. The short and more official answer is, no. The longer answer is, yes, technically. -- But you should not try it unless you are 100% sure you can live without your phone (forever).
As it turns out no one had a full 100% flash for the whole device and its complete file system structure (except for Motorola). But as it turns out without a manufacturing cable it would be useless anyway. This is because part of your phone is protected and cannot be wiped clean and flashed so blindly... ie... Unlike your desktop computer. But if you're like me you have noticed some orphan files (a few logs).
Is it worth taking the risk just to clear some orphan files? Probably not. But since you do not have a manufacturing cable and technically, your phone can recover, what you can do is the following.
Do NOT use the TWRP installed on your phone. Rather use it in memory
Code:
sudo fastboot boot twrp-3.3.1-0-payton.img
Load TWRP and format DATA
Reboot, go to advance wipe, wipe everything.
Reboot to TWRP (again)
In TWRP via the terminal type in
HTML:
rm -r -f *
You will see a lot of things that cannot be deleted. This is because you do not have permission to do so. What little is removed will likely be restored after reboot from the master rom hidden somewhere on your phone which cannot be played with unless you have a manufacturing cable (so I am told). ---- If you have such a cable --- DO NOT DO THIS. --- If you suspect you have such a cable --- Do NOT do this. -- I did this with just my normal charging cable.
After you have run the command which will take forever. Tell TWRP to reboot to bootloader. You will now have a BLACK screen. This is where I panicked. I waited a while and long pressed down the power button (presumably turning off my device). Then I pressed down the power button and the lower volume button. -- Keep holding the buttons. -- It will take longer than you like but your phone will boot up. And low and behold everything that was in the master rom (chip?) has been restored and you will now see the bootloader screen (finally). Load TWRP and install your ROM of choice.
How many times have I done this successfully? 2x
Does this mean this is dependable? Unlikely
Do I recommend this? No.
Should you depend on this? No.
Are you taking a large gable? YES
Can this brick your device? YES, more than likely.
Should you do this if you have any doubts? NO.
Will you get any help if this goes wrong? NO.
So why did I do it? As I look to possibly upgrade my phone in the future I feel a little more daring and can afford to do so. lol
you say "yes, technically", but I have yet to see someone get back to a fully operational stock. The best they can do is get to a mostly operational custom ROM. I (and a bunch of other folks here) would love to be proven wrong.
KrisM22 said:
you say "yes, technically", but I have yet to see someone get back to a fully operational stock. The best they can do is get to a mostly operational custom ROM. I (and a bunch of other folks here) would love to be proven wrong.
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After performing this I installed only the official firmware. No additional ROM or GSI. The firmware itself includes the stock software.
A word of caution. --- I did this on 3 phones now. 2 work just fine. But 1 does not. The one that does not reports my IMEI as 0. This means it boots, it loads, it will play games and apps and update via Google Play Store, but it will never make a single phone call ever again. --- Food for thought.
Thanks. That got me thinking - I wonder if you took the one with no IMEI and plugged it to Moto's Smart Assistant, would it recognize it? Would it allow you to force flash it?
KrisM22 said:
Thanks. That got me thinking - I wonder if you took the one with no IMEI and plugged it to Moto's Smart Assistant, would it recognize it? Would it allow you to force flash it?
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The world will never know. lol --- I'm a Linux user and their app doesn't seem to like Wine. I suppose I could set up a virtual machine with Windows and hope to connect through that. But I was once informed you really cannot do that via a virtual machine. Unless I was misinformed?! In any case, flashing the phone is not a problem. I can wipe it and reinstall any ROM or GSI at the moment. Or I can repeat my process too back to stock under a full wipe. The results appear to be the same.
I already have ordered a cheap Moto G7 from Google as a replacement. My current plan will be to find a very light (small), bare-bones ROM / GSI and install it onto this Moto X4. From there I'll load it up with games and such and let the kids play with it. Figure since it cannot make or receive calls anymore (or text messages either) it will make for a fun little toy.
MotoX4 said:
The world will never know. lol --- I'm a Linux user and their app doesn't seem to like Wine. I suppose I could set up a virtual machine with Windows and hope to connect through that. But I was once informed you really cannot do that via a virtual machine. Unless I was misinformed?! In any case, flashing the phone is not a problem. I can wipe it and reinstall any ROM or GSI at the moment. Or I can repeat my process too back to stock under a full wipe. The results appear to be the same.
I already have ordered a cheap Moto G7 from Google as a replacement. My current plan will be to find a very light (small), bare-bones ROM / GSI and install it onto this Moto X4. From there I'll load it up with games and such and let the kids play with it. Figure since it cannot make or receive calls anymore (or text messages either) it will make for a fun little toy.
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Thanks! Yeah, in the past I have been a lot on Ubuntu and stuff like this is not forgiving for wine.
It's a darn shame that we can't just send these phones to Moto with $25 and get it fixed. Oh well!
KrisM22 said:
Thanks. That got me thinking - I wonder if you took the one with no IMEI and plugged it to Moto's Smart Assistant, would it recognize it? Would it allow you to force flash it?
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Moto smart assistant can`t recognize the phone in rescue mode..
St.Noigel said:
Moto smart assistant can`t recognize the phone in rescue mode..
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I know it can't on yours, and most folks with this prob. I was wondering about MotoX4's case. But thanks for trying it!
I had high hopes for that smart assistant when I discovered it, but no joy. When we lost RSDlite, we lost a lot - unless they upgrade it...
KrisM22 said:
I know it can't on yours, and most folks with this prob. I was wondering about MotoX4's case. But thanks for trying it!
I had high hopes for that smart assistant when I discovered it, but no joy. When we lost RSDlite, we lost a lot - unless they upgrade it...
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RSDlite? Lost? Is this what you seek? https://rsdlitetool.com/
MotoX4 said:
RSDlite? Lost? Is this what you seek? https://rsdlitetool.com/
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6.2.4 won't recognize a Moto X4 after it is upgraded to Pie.
I used RSDLite since the times of the P2K and MAGX (Linux)... but since it's easier to use fastboot commands...
I have a stock X4 Android One around, if I want to flash Pixel Experience, can I go back to stock in the future?
joel_sinbad said:
...snip...
I have a stock X4 Android One around, if I want to flash Pixel Experience, can I go back to stock in the future?
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In all probability, NO.
Then I'm gonna stay on Stock Rom, so... If I want to flash custom Roms, there's not way back...
joel_sinbad said:
Then I'm gonna stay on Stock Rom, so... If I want to flash custom Roms, there's not way back...
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If you read a lot on this forum, that's the message I see.
I agree, NO going back. You can, I have... flash any factory Pie rom . All will flash fine and no IMEI, wifi. Radios are gone. I use Google Fi and cell data services go wierd on custom roms, if you want carrier switching.
This makes me think that the Moto X4 is more dangerous than the back then Atrix 4G with their Tegra 2 chipset...
joel_sinbad said:
This makes me think that the Moto X4 is more dangerous than the back then Atrix 4G with their Tegra 2 chipset...
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I don't recall thinking that the Moto Atrix 4g was at all dangerous when I had one - a rather nice phone imho, though that was a very long time ago. I don't think of the Moto X4 as "dangerous" - it is simply that there is not a correct understanding of the Pie file structure by the custom ROM devs such that their ROMs would not so change the file structure of the phone as to prevent it from being flashed back to stock.
Users need to recognize that, with this phone, you can't get back to stock if you flash any custom ROM.
afaik.
This change happened with the file structure and boot structure changes of the Pie update. Prior to that, folks could get away with all manner of mods. Devs for this phone need to approach modifications with the idea of assuring that any mod can be flashed back to stock, BEFORE it is released. That has not happened. And likely won't. User beware!
KrisM22..... Thank you for stating what I could not do as well.
kkjb said:
KrisM22..... Thank you for stating what I could not do as well.
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we ALL do it, and CAN do it - all in hopes of saving some newbie from disaster!