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So we just got 3G here this week, but when I am on the 3g network, my cell triangulation doesn't work. can someone with 3G in their city confirm that it is working for them so I can stop worrying about it?
Thx
NC?
How does one know if triangulation is working exactly, ha
SLC utah
make sure your GPS is off then open Google Maps and hit menu - My Location.
I go to lunch in a few and will test. Raleigh NC just turned 3G this week as well.
Confirmed: same issue... can not find my location, where edge can (did not cut off 3g, basing that off of 1 year of using maps up till this week when i got 3g in my city).
Anyone have thoughts on this?
For that matter.... why do i not have 3g in buildings/homes? I only have 3g when outside.
Worked on edge.
In phone status it shows my network as UTMS, not 3G (used to say Edge).
I guess this in normal?
Think about how "triangulation" works (improper name, really):
Along one of the low-bandwidth data channels (along with network time, network name, etc.) are a few small numbers: your MCC and MNC (describe which network: 310/410 for att usa, 310/260 for tmo usa. Those are compared against the return from AT+COPS (or actually a little database if you see "T-Mobile" or "AT&T", compared with "Voicestream Wire", "Cingular", "ATT0", or often just "") to get your network.
Those are then combined with two more numbers, the LAC and CID. The Location Area Code is unique to a region on a network (pretty wide range), and the CID is unique per tower. There is no lookup (similar to COPS) that provides a location from a given cid. This means that you have to look up the LAC/CID against a database (MCC/MNC sometimes speed up searching/possibly sort out duplicates - idk). There are a few of these databases available - there's one free one which I'm thinking about, google probably keeps one (they keep a wifi database too), microsoft probably keeps one, etc. AFAIK, there's no unified database... please correct me if I'm wrong. However, the networks do provide their tower lists to big-name lists.
One last thing to think about - the companies will always try to sell you on the idea that they use multiple towers and find the area their coverage overlaps, or that they use "the unique footprint of a tower"... basically, they put your rough location as the complete coverage area of the tower to which you are currently registered. Actually, they don't really calculate it well - it's just a circle around the tower. What google means by this second claim (the footprints one) is that some of the circles are different sizes, depending on whether the cell is full power, low power, etc. This is especially provable in my bedroom - I have access at full signal to two 3g towers (I love this area ), that seem to overlap right here. This means that, when I use google maps, or another similar program, the circles constantly move between the two. It also means that I get spammed with unsolicited +CREG's on my modem line, as it moves around .
Combining all this knowledge, I know exactly what's wrong. #1: the lac/cid on the EDGE tower elements is different than the 3g towers (makes sense, for signal range calculations), #2: google knows about the LAC/CID on the EDGE towers, and #3: google doesn't yet have the new 3g towers' LAC/CID information in their database. Therefore, the program is passed information it doesn't know about, so it simply returns an error.
Proposed solution: wait a week or two
ADDITION: You don't have 3g in houses because the 3g signal does not penetrate as well (It's on a higher frequency, and the signal drops after less interference than edge). Since these are new towers, they may also be running at reduced power.
I'm in SLC as well, and can also confirm wierdness with the non-GPS location over the first couple of weeks... including one day where my phone absolutely insisted that I was just outside of San Diego. Quite mean of my phone to tease me like that considering that I was in West Valley City at the time. It seems to be getting better as time goes on.
^^ wow, I can feel the authority. Thanks for a great post. I think you are correct, the 3G seems to be getting better coverage (sometimes getting it in my house now). I trust t-mo and google, thank you man.
I don't know EDGE technology (never delved into it), but I seriously doubt poly's claim that it uses a different frequency than 3G. If you're using a USA spec G1, then your tphone has a single radio for t-mobile's 1900 MHz band.
The issues you are noticing with 3G coverage are more likely due to SIR parameter set by the deployment engineers (i.e. they are telling the 3G cell to only 'talk' to your phone if the signal is strong).
This is just a guess, though. There could be any number of issues going on, like some misconfigured settings on the RNC's for your sector (which makes sense if the coverage is new).
UMTS is the 3G technology that T-mobile (and AT&T) use, so that is normal.
Tarzanman said:
I don't know EDGE technology (never delved into it), but I seriously doubt poly's claim that it uses a different frequency than 3G. If you're using a USA spec G1, then your tphone has a single radio for t-mobile's 1900 MHz band.
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Click to collapse
yeah, it's generally not too much of an issue - all the frequncies are pretty close (I think the 850mhz stuff from att might go a bit better than the old 1900, but it is pretty close). And, as I just discovered, tmo is entirely 1900mhz, so that part was mistaken. The rest should be accurate to the best of my knowledge (eg. EDGE can take more interference before it drops, etc.)
EDIT: Nope, their entire EDGE network is 1900mhz, but their 3g is only 1700/2100. So, it's a tossup, and that close makes not much of a difference.
can give me the bearing, relative strength, and ID for any cell towers in range?
I've been with AT&T for 12 years in the same location, with few complaints. However, in the last 30 days my reception (and everyone in my house) has been crap. I always used to get 3-4 bars on the E network. Now I waver back and forth between one very weak G bar and 2-3 E bars. I get lots of dropped calls, failed dialing, missed messages, etc.
Since I live in a quite rural area, I'd like to have some leverage when I talk to AT&T about this problem. I'd like to be able to track what signals I'm getting from which towers. Have they added towers? Did I wind up i n a dead zone? Am I in an area where different towers are competing for my signal? Etc.
Mind you, I'm not trying to triangulate *MY* position. I want to find the bearing, relative strength, and any available ID information for nearby cell towers.
Why not open the topic at Raphael software
Look for Fieldtest.exe in your windows folder. This a nifty little program by HTC ( I think). This program will give you the signal strength, etc...
ronald-is said:
Why not open the topic at Raphael software
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because these guys in the ROM forum are the smartest people I know about this phone. Maybe I bent the rules a little...
Since you've been using Edge network usually, just turn the 3G off on your raphael... This may help lock on to the older tower that you're used to. Perhaps they built a new tower a little farther off that is giving you a weak 3G signal.
i don't know how you would do that for your other phones since I don't know what they are.
I use my nexus one on ATT - in my area, there are two antennas.. ATT's "preferred" antenna which barely gets any signal at all (resulting in dropped calls every couple of minutes), and there's a "roaming" antenna which gives me full signal and works great. The problem is that when I'm on the roaming (good) antenna, the phone gets a tiny bit of signal from the "preferred" (bad) antenna, switches me over then my calls drop.
I had a Palm Treo which had a hack to manually select the antenna I wanted to use, which worked GREAT. Does a similar hack exist for the nexus one/android?
interesting.... didn't know we can select antennas
there should be a way to hack radio module to allow cell tower override, i have exactly same problem. there are three cells around my house, one nearby and two far away. for some stupid reason phone switches to different cell tower and i lose my network.
in battery use, i have cell standby as my biggest battery hog. cell standby over 25%
I'd be willing to pay for this hack.
has anybody ever found a way to do this?? I just moved further out into the country to get away from the city, and i am one tower too far away to be in the local calling area to all my contacts. lol and i know I'm BARELY into the other towers coverage area. So, if i could tell my phone to stay locked on to a particular tower, and actually get a signal (It switches towers when i still have 3 bars of signal, and I live about a mile further down the street from where it switches) I can avoid long distance charges. I haven't been able to find anything anywhere to be able to do it, but I may be using the wrong search terms. I'm not completely up to snuff on most technical terms. Thanks in advance.
I think cell tower hand offs are handled by the networks, not the phone
can anybody confirm this? what antenna on N1???
mrbkkt1 said:
I think cell tower hand offs are handled by the networks, not the phone
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U could very well be correct! Sounds logical. I've been exploring a handful of VoIP options that ya can use from your Android/WM device using your Data connection/WiFi.
I spent a bunch of time reading and researching, and just installed one called Nettalk. No local phone number for incoming calls, but the app is free, and u can make calls to anywhere to/from any Canadian area. The app looks just like the regular dialer, and works pretty decent. So, when somebody calls, I'll just select 'reject call with message' (if calling from a cell) and say I'll call rite back, or if calling from a land line, I'll just send it to voicemail and call back and presto... problem solved. There are a few other options available, where u pay anywhere from $5 a month, to $30 a month and you still using your Data/WiFi connection, but u get a local calling number for contacts to call, and doesn't matter where your phone is, it will receive the call free of long distance charges. Problem is, i haven't found any that have the city I'm from in their numbers database. So for now, I'm going to see how this system works out.
mrbkkt1 said:
I think cell tower hand offs are handled by the networks, not the phone
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Click to collapse
Both the handset and the base station "handle" hand offs. The handset has a programmed minimum signal level, below which it will essentially request a hand off if one is available. The network can switch the handset to another tower for load balancing or other reasons if it determines that the handset (or the carrier's business interests) is better served by another tower. It's a two way system. If the network wants to move you on to another tower, but the phone won't get a lock, you stay on the original tower.
The problem with the OP is that his SIM (which is programmed with carrier preferences) keeps pushing him off roaming and into the actual AT&T network. Basically, AT&T has its network set up so that any level of AT&T signal is preferable to any level of roaming. It does that to save money on roaming costs, since AT&T handles you for free while you're on their system, but has to pay a few cents to have the roaming partner host you.
Maybe
I think Tasks can do that.
samsung has that feature but i have to find for other handsets
I think I have figured out part of a mystery here...
It is well known that there are some GPS problems with the Telus Milestone when unlocked for other networks. I've already rooted my device to replace the Telus SUPL server in the location.conf files with the Google SUPL server. I use my Milestone on Fido.
But this week I have noticed something quite peculiar. I have 2 apps that allow me to view a cell tower ID: one is Tricorder, and the other is Google Maps (under About, myl).
The usual cell tower when I'm in 3G/UMTS mode at home in East Vancouver reads as follows in Maps: 302:720:65500:1957869 (in Tricorder, appears as just 1957869)
In 2G/EDGE mode: 302:720:16000:57322
Here is the strange thing. I leave for school, take the bus to UBC, 45 minutes away. I open up Tricorder. My cell tower still appears as 1957869. I am way too far from home to possibly be on the same tower. And, not surprisingly, when I open Maps it first pinpoints my location in the vicinity of my home in East Van.
If I activate 2G only mode, wait about 10 seconds, and then deactivate it, Tricorder and Maps will now show a completely different cell tower ID - at which point Maps starts behaving properly again.
Why is my phone passing stale tower IDs to apps? This would go a long way to explain the GPS problems I still have.
That's a known bug of 2.1 rom for milestone. There's a minor updated rom (hk .34) that solves the problem, which is an agps bug.
That's pretty annoyng... you should turn gps on, that's it...
Im waiting for froyo...
Ciao,
G.
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Sent from my Milestone
giugiu said:
That's a known bug of 2.1 rom for milestone. There's a minor updated rom (hk .34) that solves the problem, which is an agps bug.
That's pretty annoyng... you should turn gps on, that's it...
Im waiting for froyo...
Ciao,
G.
-------------------------------------
Sent from my Milestone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, GPS is on, but the problem is that Android seems to default to taking the cell tower ID first (stale), then GPS. It's perfectly capable of using wifi geolocation but it seems to place greater faith in the stale cell tower ID. So when I open Maps or another location aware app, it will believe for anywhere from 5-60 seconds that I'm still in the old location.
Interesting to hear the HK version has it fixed. Of course I can't use an HK ROM on a Telus Milestone without losing 3G.
*But*... is it possible the module containing the fix (kernel?) could be packed up alone into an SBF file for flashing, without overwriting the rest of the firmeware?
I should add: In EDGE mode, Tricorder detects the cell ID of 2 other nearby networks. In UMTS mode, Tricorder only seems to see one cell ID, and the other two slots are filled with "-1". So not only does it report the wrong cell ID to software, but it also provides no context for self-correction...
Hy,
You do not loose the ability of being on a 3g network. I use a hk nandroid backup w/ some tweaks and works fine on my 3g carrier (not .36 tho).
Ciao,
G.
Exit: read about the frequencies issues in the other thread. So, yeah, hk will not work in canada! ;(
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Sent from my Milestone
I just installed the new Thai version released by GOT. Other bugs appear to be fixed. According to Tricorder I'm still only seeing one UMTS cell ID... and unfortunately that ID is -1 right now. Airplane mode, then off again, now I see 1951258.
I won't be able to tell if goes stale until I actually leave the house today though So let's get on that...
I tentatively report that this issue is *fixed* in the new releases from Group of Ten. On the new Thai firmware I am able to see changes in the UMTS cell ID. The Maps app seems to provide a better approximate "first guess" than it used to, even without a GPS lock.
how exactly does the tricorder work cmstlist? I dont understand what the -1 means and the larger number ontop of the -1.
sharky2010 said:
how exactly does the tricorder work cmstlist? I dont understand what the -1 means and the larger number ontop of the -1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In Tricorder, press "EMS" to get cellular and wifi data.
On my phone, the first line under cellular says:
1962*** Fido 16
(Cell tower ID, provider, signal strength)
There are 2-3 tower IDs that show up for my particular location consistently. If I see those IDs when I'm way across town then I know it's incorrect.
The second and third lines both say -1. I think it's just that the OS isn't providing the app any additional tower info. In 2G mode I see three different tower IDs sometimes.
Mines only seeing one tower but its signal strength is 21... good or bad?
Normal. I think for some reason the Milestone just doesn't pass on more than one tower ID at a time to the software in UMTS mode.
I think mines defective anyways... gonna return it for a different one on tuesday.
I have very weak cell service at my house, and even crappier DSL. Im going to get a 3G/wifi router and an antenna/amp, would like to determine what 3G spectrum is in use at my location. I can use the antenna app to determine which direction to the local tower is but dont know what 3G band is in use.
How can I get this info from my phone?