Related
Guys,
Lets help our campaign by writing a bad review of HTC Kaiser here:
HTC Kaiser at Amazon.com
And dont forget to click "Yes" on Was this review helpful to you?
Say that you own it (yes you are!) and how you dont like it due to the performance and drivers issue (and other issues like BT, etc.).
Note that you should be honest about the review.
If you think you like the Kaiser/Tilt the way it is now, then it is good for you (be happy!).
However, if you are not satisfied with the device (and/or HTC), you feel cheated by HTC, please put your voice out (write a review).
Dont tell lie, just express your feelings about it.
If you still dont get it, check HTCClassAction
Other reviews :
Expansys.com
ATTWireless.com
Newegg.com
Amazon.co.uk
(Edit: replaced duplicate post with cross-link)
For some background on the purpose of this thread, read this post: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1861963&postcount=865
Good idea to get everyone to post bad reviews, but PLEASE make sure that the reviews are honest and can be substantiated. The last thing we want is for HTC to point out that we have been organising a slander campaign.
Thanks gogol for starting this thread. Remember everyone, it's not just the Kaiser that's suffering from this issue. Here's the complete list:
http://www.htcclassaction.org/devices.php
If you own any of these devices, you're entitled to share your experience with other potential buyers.
Amazon.com:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/102-2541160-4372107?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=htc
Amazon.co.uk:
http://amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_w_h_?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=htc
Epinions.com:
http://www.epinions.com/search/?sub...arch_vertical=all&tax_name=&search_string=htc
What are some other sites you've used to research tech devices, where we can add consumer reviews?
ach2 said:
Good idea to get everyone to post bad reviews, but PLEASE make sure that the reviews are honest and can be substantiated. The last thing we want is for HTC to point out that we have been organising a slander campaign.
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Click to collapse
Absolutely. Thank you for mentioning that ach2. I've tried to also make that clear in every one of my comments. DO NOT POST false accusations or be unfair. And do not post about devices you don't own or haven't observed any issues with. Don't mark a post as Helpful unless you feel it is correct and helpful. (For example, I saw a negative review stating that WM6 is a bad OS. I do not personally feel that way, so I did not mark the review as helpful to me. Likewise, in my own review I did not mention Bluetooth or speakerphone issues because I have not had a bad experience with those aspects of my device.)
Simply put, if you write a review, be honest.
Couldn't agree more. Thats why I've kept my review simple and have referenced the website:
www.htcclassaction.org.
I suggest everyone else should do the same. If the website keeps popping up people will go and some may even read!!
Be warned that it can take from 1 - 6 days for the review to appear.
Other useful things are to rate 5 star reviews as "not helpful" and poor reviews as "helpful" to help dissuade people from this crippled platform.
Whats the point in this may I ask.
What exactly is the issue with the kaiser as I cannot see any issues with the one I have from vodafone. It does all I want it to do and it does it very well and quickly enough for me not to worry if its being slow.
The device is technically a PDA, it does email, office, internet, and a host of other things, its not a TV, or a portable dvd player or an ipod.
Whats the point in slating the device on amazon if this affects the way htc operates and affects its business.
I wonder if people writing these reviews have looked at the bigger picture.
I would suggest if you do not like the device and have issues with it, then maybe the device is not the most ideal device for you.
Tom Williams said:
I would suggest if you do not like the device and have issues with it, then maybe the device is not the most ideal device for you.
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Click to collapse
I see your point Tom. However, if I have an issue with the way the device was marketed to me -- which is contrary to the way the device actually performs -- then I am also entitled to share my opinion with others. Because "if the device is not the most ideal device" for me, then it probably isn't for others either. I wish someone had told me about these problems before I signed a 2-year agreement. Therefore, I'm going to let others know so they can make a truly informed decision before they do the same. After all, isn't that the point of reviews, good or bad?
I would suggest that if you DO like the device, you offer a well-thought-out, positive review about the device. That's fair!
Edit:
Tom Williams said:
What exactly is the issue with the kaiser as I cannot see any issues with the one I have from vodafone. It does all I want it to do and it does it very well and quickly enough for me not to worry if its being slow.
The device is technically a PDA, it does email, office, internet, and a host of other things, its not a TV, or a portable dvd player or an ipod.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you're completely satisfied with your device then don't go looking for faults. However, if you want understand the real issue (and I respectfully add that your comment about it being a media device suggests that you don't understand the real issue yet), then go to http://www.htcclassaction.org/misunderstandings.php. This lays out the real problem that people are upset with... and will probably change your opinion about your device. You've been warned.
lol, some of the 1 star reviews on amazon are just too funny.
"I also have not been able to figure out how to add a number to the address book? Menu> add new, would be my guess, but that's not it, and I haven't figured it out yet. (As an advanced IT guy, I should be able to figure out even something not apparent in a couple of minutes, but not so). "
I dont remember too well, but i think there's a "new" softkey right next to the "menu" softkey
This has been discussed and debated many times.
Just read over http://www.htcclassaction.org
If you dont agree with this move or campaign, then it is not for you.
So, please leave this thread.
Tom Williams said:
Whats the point in this may I ask.
What exactly is the issue with the kaiser as I cannot see any issues with the one I have from vodafone. It does all I want it to do and it does it very well and quickly enough for me not to worry if its being slow.
The device is technically a PDA, it does email, office, internet, and a host of other things, its not a TV, or a portable dvd player or an ipod.
Whats the point in slating the device on amazon if this affects the way htc operates and affects its business.
I wonder if people writing these reviews have looked at the bigger picture.
I would suggest if you do not like the device and have issues with it, then maybe the device is not the most ideal device for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tom Williams said:
Whats the point in this may I ask.
What exactly is the issue with the kaiser as I cannot see any issues with the one I have from vodafone. It does all I want it to do and it does it very well and quickly enough for me not to worry if its being slow.
The device is technically a PDA, it does email, office, internet, and a host of other things, its not a TV, or a portable dvd player or an ipod.
Whats the point in slating the device on amazon if this affects the way htc operates and affects its business.
I wonder if people writing these reviews have looked at the bigger picture.
I would suggest if you do not like the device and have issues with it, then maybe the device is not the most ideal device for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For the newbies just joining the forum may i present Exhibit A, the above post, which I will mark "How to jump in without bothering to look at the issue"
FYI if i buy a car that is marketed with a turbo and then the car maker don't actually connect the turbo up (AND DON'T TELL YOU!) do I have the right to be annoyed? If I buy a computer with the latest gee whizz graphics and it then refuses to run in anything but safe mode should I be a tad peeved??
HTC have marketed this "PDA" as having a "rich multimedia experience" to quote one part of their advertising blurb. So I think it is not unreasonable for this device to fulfil these expectations.
Over here its called "false advertising".
With regards to "the big picture" I would respectfully point you to the previously mentioned website so you can perhaps educate and inform yourself. I will live in hope but I won't hold my breath.
Oh and the point of the amazon campaign is very simple - to stop people who want a gadget that does everything from spending their hard earned cash - god only knows we work damn hard for it and its not too much to expect a company that has made massive profits not to FLEECE US.
rant over.
getwilde said:
What are some other sites you've used to research tech devices, where we can add consumer reviews?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Expansys UK is another site where users can leave reviews. Particularly good site to post a review on as their homepage has the TyTN 2 on it, with a "Most popular" sticker on it.
However, their reviews are moderated before posting and the review I submitted three weeks ago has yet to see the light of day - perhaps a little too honest for the censors (sorry, I mean moderators)
This move to orchestrate mass negative reviews on another site (Amazon)will be considered malicious and counter-productive in several ways:
1.
It may be harmful to the class action moves because it shows an intent to damage sales on the as yet "unproven" case by organising the hijack of the Amazon site's review system that by all accounts has shown little but positive reviews by those who have "genuinely" purchased from that site.
2.
It implicates XDA-Developers in conspiratorial manipulation of a third party site.
3
It defeats our purpose which is to persuade HTC by petition and class action to produce the drivers we would like. This action is a direct attack on sales that will be permanent - in as much as the reviews folk post on Amazon will remain there even if HTC respond to pressure and produce suitable drivers. It is not persuasive from HTC's point of view, if they continue to lose sales regardless of whether they produce the drivers or not.
I feel this kind of action falls below the standards of an honest campaign, as already started and now being reported elsewhere (other sites). The pressure is being put on by up-front means and is gaining support.
However, conspiring to manipulate product reviews elsewhere will not necessarily be looked on favorably be Amazon, HTC AT&T and other providers and if as I think likely the wider press begins to take notice of the campaign, this will be a shabby episode and ammunition for HTC.
My personal point of view - this kind of action is going in the wrong direction. Let's make our case for the drivers and make it well, we need to keep the moral high ground. If we are making a case that we have been "wronged" then we don't want to be seen scrabbling around in the muck of petty review rigging at Amazon.
Mike
mikechannon said:
This move to orchestrate mass negative reviews on another site (Amazon)will be considered malicious and counter-productive in several ways:
1.
It may be harmful to the class action moves because it shows an intent to damage sales on the as yet "unproven" case by organising the hijack of the Amazon site's review system that by all accounts has shown little but positive reviews by those who have "genuinely" purchased from that site.
2.
It implicates XDA-Developers in conspiratorial manipulation of a third party site.
3
It defeats our purpose which is to persuade HTC by petition and class action to produce the drivers we would like. This action is a direct attack on sales that will be permanent - in as much as the reviews folk post on Amazon will remain there even if HTC respond to pressure and produce suitable drivers. It is not persuasive from HTC's point of view, if they continue to lose sales regardless of whether they produce the drivers or not.
I feel this kind of action falls below the standards of an honest campaign, as already started and now being reported elsewhere (other sites). The pressure is being put on by up-front means and is gaining support.
However, conspiring to manipulate product reviews elsewhere will not necessarily be looked on favorably be Amazon, HTC AT&T and other providers and if as I think likely the wider press begins to take notice of the campaign, this will be a shabby episode and ammunition for HTC.
My personal point of view - this kind of action is going in the wrong direction. Let's make our case for the drivers and make it well, we need to keep the moral high ground. If we are making a case that we have been "wronged" then we don't want to be seen scrabbling around in the muck of petty review rigging at Amazon.
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you go on and slander and make unsubstantiated claims that is one thing, however, as long as your factual and honest I see no harm in posting a review of the device. Most reviews on these sites are people justifying their expensive purchase by giving it 5 stars and writing about how its the best thing ever. The choppy video performance, touchscreen lags, etc are all facts and the consumer should be aware of these problems before purchasing. I wish some of these reviews were out there before I made my purchase.
mikechannon said:
This move to orchestrate mass negative reviews on another site (Amazon)will be considered malicious and counter-productive in several ways:
1.
It may be harmful to the class action moves because it shows an intent to damage sales on the as yet "unproven" case by organising the hijack of the Amazon site's review system that by all accounts has shown little but positive reviews by those who have "genuinely" purchased from that site.
2.
It implicates XDA-Developers in conspiratorial manipulation of a third party site.
3
It defeats our purpose which is to persuade HTC by petition and class action to produce the drivers we would like. This action is a direct attack on sales that will be permanent - in as much as the reviews folk post on Amazon will remain there even if HTC respond to pressure and produce suitable drivers. It is not persuasive from HTC's point of view, if they continue to lose sales regardless of whether they produce the drivers or not.
I feel this kind of action falls below the standards of an honest campaign, as already started and now being reported elsewhere (other sites). The pressure is being put on by up-front means and is gaining support.
However, conspiring to manipulate product reviews elsewhere will not necessarily be looked on favorably be Amazon, HTC AT&T and other providers and if as I think likely the wider press begins to take notice of the campaign, this will be a shabby episode and ammunition for HTC.
My personal point of view - this kind of action is going in the wrong direction. Let's make our case for the drivers and make it well, we need to keep the moral high ground. If we are making a case that we have been "wronged" then we don't want to be seen scrabbling around in the muck of petty review rigging at Amazon.
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm afraid I don't agree.
1) "Intent to damage sales". EVERYTHING that we have done could be interpreted as an intent to damage sales. By its very definition that is what negative publicity does.
2) How are we manipulating amazon? All we are doing is encouraging people with kaisers to publish a negative review of their under-performing product. It would be vote rigging/product manipulation if I got my friends who DONT own kaisers to post reviews. If and its a big IF we ever get these drivers I will be the first in line to ask for my review to be withdrawn on the grounds it is no longer accurate.
With regards to this so-called "honest campaign" what exactly does that mean?? We have started a website, we are posting our reviews of our device and referencing the htcclassaction website. How is this in any way dishonest?
At the end of the day some people have paid up to $700 for this "product" and they are entitled to be heard be it through htcclassaction or via the posting of a negative review. How is this any different to when a "reputable" website posts an negative review of a product??
We have made our case for the drivers and we have been told in no uncertain terms to **** off. This needs to be brought to the wider (Read: non-techie) public and one of the ways of doing this is the posting on more consumer orientated websites such as amazon.
I added a negative (but accurate) review on amazon a few days ago, which is showing up for the TYTN II.
I'm sorry mikechannon, but I disagree with you.
First of all, it is not "permanent", as you say. Your own review is editable. If HTC releases drivers, I will gladly change my review. I actually look forward to changing it. If they don't release drivers, my review stays negative.
Secondly, how is giving a perfectly honest and appropriate negative review any different than emailing weblogs like Engadget and Gizmodo to bring attention to it, or starting a website called "HTCClassAction", or having numerous threads going, regarding this issue, in the Kiaser forum here on XDA - arguably the biggest and most influential HTC community forum in the english language?
It is not any different. It is all bad publicity, and frankly, there needs to be more of it. HTC's press release basically said:
"Well, you caught us, we didn't support the included hardware, but we aren't going to fix it. If you want that functionality you are going to have to buy the next device we release."
Apparently they are not familiar with advertising laws in the US. And I quote from their HTC America website:
"Rich media experience with AT&T Mobile Music, Video, TV and games"
We can all agree the media experience is anything but "rich".
The only caution I would have for people giving negative reviews is to do so on the appropriate Amazon domain. If you are a UK or European customer, do it on Amazon UK. If you are in the US and on AT&T, do it on Amazon.com.
If the review is an honest review, then I have to say then the more reviews the better.
I for one wish I had known about the driver issues prior to purchase and prior to signing up for a two year agreement with AT&T.
Isn't the point of these Amazon reviews to point out that a device may have problems?
Dont forget to write reviews on sites such as www.newegg.com and www.buy.com that sell a LOT of these phones.
Guys, there's not much point in continuing to argue about mikechannon's post. He's shown himself to be an HTC fanboy with not much good sense in many of his recent posts. Best to just ignore him and move on. I've posted what I feel is a fairly impartial review on amazon and epinions. Don't forget to review the Tilt as well, since it's sold under that moniker a lot under Amazon.
Seriously after watching this video .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66-4uMQqerA&feature=youtube_gdata_player. I don't remember anyone who covered it so professionally oh well I really enjoyed it..
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda app-developers app
I totally agree!
The Verge is awesome. Best Tech site ever...besides XDA of course...
Not to bash on the verge by any means. But its more like Google invited them and did this video as a replacement for the NY event that was cancelled.
I don't see it as journalism. A Google sponsored infomercial is more like it honestly.
Probably did not want to change the launch date. No time to get a another venue & date. Don't want to do webcast event with only a couple people present. Do something like this with the verge.
For unbiased reviews my top sites are :
- Anandtech
- Heelsandtech
- Gigaom
Other than that I take the 2nd tier sites like theverge, engadget, etc with a grain of salt.
I think they must have been invited earlier, maybe last week, and they just asked them not to publish the video until after they announced the device.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
ap3604 said:
For unbiased reviews my top sites are :
- Anandtech
- Heelsandtech
- Gigaom
Other than that I take the 2nd tier sites like theverge, engadget, etc with a grain of salt.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anandtech is definitely bias.
osi13 said:
Anandtech is definitely bias.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you straight crazy son
Anandtech is one of the most unbiased review sites ever. The scientific analysis he does, instead of just simply regurgitating the spec list and saying if he like's it or not the way so many other tech sites do, is above all else.
albundy2010 said:
Not to bash on the verge by any means. But its more like Google invited them and did this video as a replacement for the NY event that was cancelled.
I don't see it as journalism. A Google sponsored infomercial is more like it honestly.
Probably did not want to change the launch date. No time to get a another venue & date. Don't want to do webcast event with only a couple people present. Do something like this with the verge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I highly doubt they recorded that after the event was cancelled. Most likely they were going to release it today whether the event took place or not and released it as soon as they were allowed by Google.
---------- Post added at 11:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:58 PM ----------
ap3604 said:
you straight crazy son
Anandtech is one of the most unbiased review sites ever. The scientific analysis he does, instead of just simply regurgitating the spec list and saying if he like's it or not the way so many other tech sites do, is above all else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anandtech is good at technical reviews but not necessarily real world reviews.
ap3604 said:
I take the 2nd tier sites like theverge, engadget, etc with a grain of salt.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. Websites that do reviews have to make revenue so they are bias regardless or at least restricted on the amount of negativity, otherwise they won't receive new phones from the same carrier/manufacture in the future.
Lol at people getting mad that review sites are biased. Of course they are! What do you expect, a glorified press release? That's not journalism at all. Journalism is suppose to be critical and investigative.
The only reason Anandtech is unbiased is because their reviews are more like scientific tests: charts, numbers, quantifiable stuff. Once you start asking them whether you like or dislike the phone, it turns BIASED. I personally don't give two ****zus about numbers and graphs. I want an educated opinion from a geek about whether he likes a phone or not, someone who has handled more than one phone and can make comparisons on a whole host of questions.
It's when the fanboys get angry that their baby wasn't reviewed positively that they start screaming bias. As long as reviewers support their opinions in detail and remain respectful (unlike Gizmodo when they **** all over Blackberry for not sending them a review unit or gave their Nokia N8 to a person who could barely type), it's all good. When they act disrespectful and start throwing insults, place double-standards, and have terrible supporting evidence, do you say, now that is TRULLY BIASED BS.
Here are some ****zu-y sites I've come across:
NokiaBlog, WMPowerUser, WPCentral (duh)
AndroidCentral, AndroidCommunity, Android_______ (double duh)
Gizmodo (no allegiance. Just tabloid fare to provoke and garner hits)
katamari201 said:
Lol at people getting mad that review sites are biased. Of course they are! What do you expect, a glorified press release? That's not journalism at all. Journalism is suppose to be critical and investigative.
The only reason Anandtech is unbiased is because their reviews are more like scientific tests: charts, numbers, quantifiable stuff. Once you start asking them whether you like or dislike the phone, it turns BIASED. I personally don't give two ****zus about numbers and graphs. I want an educated opinion from a geek about whether he likes a phone or not, someone who has handled more than one phone and can make comparisons on a whole host of questions.
It's when the fanboys get angry that their baby wasn't reviewed positively that they start screaming bias. As long as reviewers support their opinions in detail and remain respectful (unlike Gizmodo when they **** all over Blackberry for not sending them a review unit or gave their Nokia N8 to a person who could barely type), it's all good. When they act disrespectful and start throwing insults, place double-standards, and have terrible supporting evidence, do you say, now that is TRULLY BIASED BS.
Here are some ****zu-y sites I've come across:
NokiaBlog, WMPowerUser, WPCentral (duh)
AndroidCentral, AndroidCommunity, Android_______ (double duh)
Gizmodo (no allegiance. Just tabloid fare to provoke and garner hits)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like watching youtube reviews like MobileTechReview and Pocketnow, although they are bias too it still give enough of a hint about a device. In all honesty, I fear more the elitist group of Android fanboys from the Galaxy Nexus forum section, once they obtain this device and move on to here, I will be making my retreat.
katamari201 said:
The only reason Anandtech is unbiased is because their reviews are more like scientific tests: charts, numbers, quantifiable stuff. Once you start asking them whether you like or dislike the phone, it turns BIASED. I personally don't give two ****zus about numbers and graphs. I want an educated opinion from a geek about whether he likes a phone or not, someone who has handled more than one phone and can make comparisons on a whole host of questions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I personally don't give two %#&! about a site that says : "battery life is ok". That doesn't tell me squat.
I would MUCH rather have a scientific study done showing the amount of battery life based on what you were doing the entire time to run it down.
I personally don't give two %#&! about a review site that says: "screen brightness is good". That doesn't do anything for me.
I would MUCH rather have a scientific test done showing the screen brightness in nits so I can compare it against other phones.
I would rather have too much knowledge than not enough and make my own choice based on the knowledge given to me, rather than someone elses opinion who might not have the same preferences I do.
Of course it's helpful to have differing opinions of phones, but most review sites beyond anandtech don't know how to write a real review.
Verge is crap. I sheep infested site. Took it off my favs long time ago and never looked back.
Nice video
Nice sales video and definitely pre-recorded
boodies said:
Verge is crap. I sheep infested site. Took it off my favs long time ago and never looked back.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iSheep? The website that has been highly critical of Apple and iOS? You must be confused. Their editor in chief uses a Galaxy Nexus.
---------- Post added at 09:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 AM ----------
florian3000 said:
Nice sales video and definitely pre-recorded
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be fair almost all of the Verge's review/investigative type videos look like this. They spend on a lot of money on their video team apparently.
I enjoyed the video from the Verge and the articles were very well written. They perfectly answered my questions about the lack of an LTE Nexus 4; from Google's standpoint, it makes perfect sense. Shame on you Verizon...
That being said BGR is the BEST! I'm SO joking - In all seriousness, I read a lot of those sites, them formulate my own opinion about how said device stacks up. I rarely take the opinion/bias from one site alone.
Everyone on this planet is subjective. There is no such thing as objective, except when looking at a spec sheet.
I subjectively object to the word journalism being used to describe any review site.
eksasol said:
I like watching youtube reviews like MobileTechReview and Pocketnow, although they are bias too it still give enough of a hint about a device. In all honesty, I fear more the elitist group of Android fanboys from the Galaxy Nexus forum section, once they obtain this device and move on to here, I will be making my retreat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And who should that be? And why not just blocking them?
Hi,
This post is not written with the intention to cause any fellow poster blood pressure, its a genuine enquiry I am making.
Take the bull by the horns.
Can a technician or engineer explain to me what I am failing to grasp in relation to this ever on going situation with regard to 'viewing angles' ?
In terms of a TV I can obviously see this being a criteria relevant to any test as a TV is not a one to one user experience but a multi use device, meaning the viewers, plural, will sit at different angles to the screen.
In terms of a mobile phone how does this much used and tested criteria apply? Genuine question. I am obviously missing something and I dislike not being in the know. Any educative answer would be appreciated.
Many thanks.
Ryland Johnson said:
Hi,
This post is not written with the intention to cause any fellow poster blood pressure, its a genuine enquiry I am making.
Take the bull by the horns.
Can a technician or engineer explain to me what I am failing to grasp in relation to this ever on going situation with regard to 'viewing angles' ?
In terms of a TV I can obviously see this being a criteria relevant to any test as a TV is not a one to one user experience but a multi use device, meaning the viewers, plural, will sit at different angles to the screen.
In terms of a mobile phone how does this much used and tested criteria apply? Genuine question. I am obviously missing something and I dislike not being in the know. Any educative answer would be appreciated.
Many thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You aren't failing to grasp anything other than the fact that some people like nit-picking. I've recommended people to buy everything from TVs to PCs and yes, to mobile phones. Nobody looks at their screen in any way other than head-on.
Taking a 2% example (in this case, viewing a video with a friend) and applying it across the whole board is absolutely ridiculous. What I've stated will not apply when your job requires you to view videos with people-and I don't know of such a job
There. A completely honest response.
For a mobile device held in the hand it doesn't matter. A slight shift of the wrist if at all affected and problem is sorted.
As for a T.v......it does matter as you say, different seating positions will cause discomfort for one or more users at any one time.
It's a bull...t reason to hate on a phone.
I remember the day's of sending txt messages made up of symbols to make a picture.
Now people are complaining about viewing angles on a full HD screen.
Please.
Sent from my C6603 using xda app-developers app
People will never be fully happy with something and will always try to find something wrong with it.
Sent from my C6603 using xda premium
he has quite a few reviews nut only dating back 4 months ago. i find it hard to believe but boy do i hope those nexus shots are real for te slow motion!
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0f797Js_UbU3lsnarRfo2w
These are fake videos to generate YT views. Just looks at the Pro Photography HD video, the difference in quality between the pics and the absence of sources and the last few pictures are only clear evidence to this lie. For example here is where that bear pic came from: The cover of "Biography of a Grizzly Paperback" by Ernest Seton-Thompson.
I wish YT would do something about these Indian spammers. Like, wouldn't these eat up their storage and bandwidth? You'd think they have some kind of algorithm to weed out these videos of just slide shows and text to speech regurgitation. Maybe demote the video if the ratio of dislike is greater than like.
Thread cleaned.
If someone breaks the rules report them, don't reply it only makes our job harder.
You know, leading up to my purchase of the Gear VR I watched countless Oculus Rift videos where the user was simply dumbfounded, dismayed and amazed by the complete immersion of the experience. Lots of swearing and laughing. A sense of "no longer being in the real world".
The Gear VR has a better screen than the Oculus Rift and the FOV is just slightly less (96 degrees vs 100 degrees). But to be honest, although it's cool, I am NOT getting that WOW moment where I feel I've been transported to another world. I can see pixels, I can see the binocular effect. Yeah it's cool but for me anyway, not remotely immersive. Perhaps 360 videos would be immersive if they weren't so badly out of focus. I can watch quality HD movies in the Cinema but those are movies on a screen - again not immersive - I'm not IN the action. Games come the closest but Android games tend to be a bit on the cartoonish side. Of the games I've played only Anshar and Darknet give me the sense I'm IN the game, Anshar being the best (I really wish they would release the full game - getting tired of playing one level forever).
So are these people in the Oculus videos just easily impressed? Don't get me wrong, the Gear VR is a fun device and worth the $200, but it just isn't AMAZING for me like all those folks in the videos seem to think the Oculus is. Never once have I felt like laughing or swearing or just being giddy at the experience. It's neat, but for me that's about it.
** Update: Turns out the best most immersive games for the GVR (such as Herobound) require a controller. Since I did not own a bluetooth controller previously I was not aware. Herobound is a very impressive VR game and gives a good sense of immersion. Very promising.
Maybe it's like hypnosis. Some people are easier to hypnotize than others. Maybe with VR it is just easier for some people to feel IN the environment than others? Dunno.
I guess the sad thing about the GVR is that we will never have games that can compete with what a PC with graphics card can spit out. There is an app to allow you to play PC games on your Note 4, but the lag over wifi is so bad they are kind of unplayable and you can't hard tether for obvious reasons.
Let it go man. if you dont like it - stop using it. But youve said all there is to say.
stevegee111 said:
Let it go man. if you dont like it - stop using it. But youve said all there is to say.
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Wow, do you actually read posts before responding or just blurt things out? I said on numerous occasions in this thread that I like the GVR and it is worth the money, it just isn't the WOW experience I was hoping for. My advice to you, since you're new and clearly don't know better, is read the words someone has said before commenting on them.
SMH
Actually there is one experience for me that does have the WOW immersive feeling. It is the Lunar Theater in Oculus Cinema. When the lights come up just looking at that is so amazing. I don't care about silly fuzzy 360 videos, give me more content like THAT, not only to sit and look at but to roam and explore. Even have a moon monster or two jump out at me.
...and your point is?
the gear VR is a fun early adopter thing to experience the current status quo of VR. its impressive in some ways, not so much in others. thus the "innovator edition", thus no finished product on the open market yet from neither samsung nor oculus nor anybody else, thus the very transparent "this is only for people who like to come along for the ride early on" policy. the paths to better products is known, the technology is not quite there yet, but its already a lot of fun for some, and less fun for others. the end.
not sure what youre trying to accomplish here.
zorglub667 said:
...and your point is?
the gear VR is a fun early adopter thing to experience the current status quo of VR. its impressive in some ways, not so much in others. thus the "innovator edition", thus no finished product on the open market yet from neither samsung nor oculus nor anybody else, thus the very transparent "this is only for people who like to come along for the ride early on" policy. the paths to better products is known, the technology is not quite there yet, but its already a lot of fun for some, and less fun for others. the end.
not sure what youre trying to accomplish here.
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Um, did you READ the OP? Let me explain again. I am responding to the fact videos I have seen of people using the Oculus Rift (which has an inferior screen to this) that has them utterly gobsmacked. They laugh, they swear, they are AMAZED. Considering this device has a superior image I was expecting the same and am disappointed I have not experienced those emotions.
If you had actually read the OP I wouldn't have to repeat myself.
P.S., They are selling this commercially through BestBuy brick and mortar stores, so let's not pretend this is some alpha unit for "innovators" only, despite the clever name. Other than better content, I doubt future iterations of the Gear VR will be much improved until we get higher res displays.
** Dude, 13 posts in 8 years and you decide to finally pontificate in my thread?
Folks, if you disagree with my viewpoint that is your prerogative, but at least show that you read the words I wrote before commenting. It is clear from the last two individuals that they did not read the OP.
So another thread about the screen door effect ruining the experience for you'? Wasn't it enough to ruin just the one? IF you don't like the experience then sell the device and wait for the Note 5 or 6 (4K/5K screens) and Gear VR2.
The videos are a bit fuzzy I agree, but moving the device closer to your face will definitely increase your FOV (difficult to measure/calculate by just how much). Moving the lens further from your eyes doesn't make the pixel-issue disappear, but instead distorts the outer edges and makes for a worse experience (no wonder you hate it so much; you are lessening the amount of "in-focus" light that reaches your eyes while making the black edges all the more visible).
This is an INNOVATOR's edition and if you fail to see that then you truly shouldn't own one. The experience is the best VR experience we can achieve as of yet, and you aren't apparently able to comprehend that fact, and the fact that people are different; some aren't as anal about pixels being visible as you are, thus the "wow amazing!"-effect they get when using it..
1. i did read your opening post.
2. that some people have no trouble to oversee the obvious resolution shortcomings while others do, and that you in particular are disappointed in the resolution, all that has been discussed many many times now, i would say. would you disagree?
3. it appears you are pretty quick at judging people. my post was not meant as an offense in any way. i must say i found the tone of your reply surprisingly aggressive. we're just chitchatting about a tech gadget here. no reason to get worked up about it.
still fail to see the point in opening yet another thread about the same topic. no idea what youre trying to archieve by this.
yes, we will only get better resolution, once we have small displays with even higher resolution than the current qHD generation. in case anyone didnt know that already...
no, i do not think that the way samsung/oculus sell this is a cheat in any way. i fondly remember the *numerous* disclaimers i had to click through to get mine. rarely has a manufacturer tried so hard to NOT sell me a product
the product isnt even advertised in the slightest. if at all, one could argue that it appears that samsung has been quite surprised by the demand. what little batches they put out seem to have sold out pretty much anywhere rather quickly. so: demand is up even though its so openly communicated to be an prototype-y product, so the usual dynamics of the free marketplace kick in, so bestbuy jumps on the bandwagon. it appears, that many people seem to be fine with the current shortcomings. an argument could be made if they tried to sell this to people without letting them try it out first. to kind of HIDE the real nature of it or something. but that does not seem to be the case anywhere, and i dont find that surprising either - overall, most people really seem to react very much on the "wow, wtf!" side of things. that it didnt wow you, im really sorry and i mean that completely without any sarcasm whatsoever. but i think its enough to discuss this in 2 or 3 threads and opening yet another still seems kind of pointless to me. many people are impressed. you are not. what else is there to say?
oh, btw: ive been around on XDA for a long time (ever since the very early windows mobile days when HTC was still selling its phones not under the HTC brand but labeled as MDA/XDA/whatever). this is an old account i had forgotten and ressurected because i forgot the password of another. if you feel the need to judge people based on something as artificial as a forum post number, well: to each his own.
Toss3 said:
So another thread about the screen door effect ruining the experience for you'? Wasn't it enough to ruin just the one? IF you don't like the experience then sell the device and wait for the Note 5 or 6 (4K/5K screens) and Gear VR2.
The videos are a bit fuzzy I agree, but moving the device closer to your face will definitely increase your FOV (difficult to measure/calculate by just how much). Moving the lens further from your eyes doesn't make the pixel-issue disappear, but instead distorts the outer edges and makes for a worse experience (no wonder you hate it so much; you are lessening the amount of "in-focus" light that reaches your eyes while making the black edges all the more visible).
This is an INNOVATOR's edition and if you fail to see that then you truly shouldn't own one. The experience is the best VR experience we can achieve as of yet, and you aren't apparently able to comprehend that fact, and the fact that people are different; some aren't as anal about pixels being visible as you are, thus the "wow amazing!"-effect they get when using it..
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And thanks for proving my point. You say, "so another thread about screen door effect ruining the experience for you?" Can you please point to me where in my OP I mention screen door effect at all? Right. I don't mention it. Not once.
This is a thread about whether you feel a "sense of immersion" that makes you say WOW. I am pleased that so many of you do. I have now shown this device to 10 people and not a single person has reacted that way. The general reaction has been, "Well, it's kind of cool but not what I expected" I ask them if they feel like they are "there" and not a single person has said yes. Most of my friends are older successful business people who aren't amazed by the latest bit of kit. Maybe older people have a more difficult time entering the VR world because they've been in the real world so long? 3 different people said, "Based upon the videos I've seen online I was expecting more (paraphrasing)".
The one exception, as I mentioned, is the actual theater (not the film but the theater itself) in Oculus Cinema. People thought the moon was the coolest and wondered why there wasn't more content like that. I'm hoping Oculus (or a developer) creates more soon.
BestBuy is now selling this device out of their retail stores with demo units set up in hundreds of locations. They are selling it at full retail. Name one other "beta" product that has ever been sold in this manner? I don't think that setting up store demo's is an attempt to "talk you out of buying this device".
I think by calling it an "Innovator Edition" Samsung is sort of giving themselves a "get out of jail free" card. Yes, here is our "Innovator Edition", don't expect much but oh yeah, we're selling it at BestBuy with demo units for full price. That's fine. They call it marketing. I do like this device and think it is well worth the $200 - as I have stated on numerous occasions which some members apparently miss each and every time.
I think the fact is (as I said in the OP that no one read), some people have more of a suspension of disbelief about VR than others. To me, while cool, most of it just seems like as handy film viewer (which is worthwhile on it's own). This is also the reaction my friends who have seen it give. Perhaps the real problem is simply content. There are some moments which are immersive - which I also stated but everyone seems to miss.
Assuming the GVR is truly a "beta" (it's really not - you don't sell betas in stores), what are people expecting from future products? This is plastic, some lenses, a headstrap and some electronics. Perhaps they will come up with some miracle lenses which parse out all pixelization? I honestly doubt that. The Gear VR is what it will be. What will change is the phone and content.
Here's one thing to keep in mind folks. Very very very few people come to forums such as this to discuss the Gear VR. Those who come tend to be fanboys and enthusiasts, and that's perfectly cool. The mistake people make is that they take the impressions of the few individuals here and project that over the marketplace.
On the other hand I am attempting to see this product through the eyes of the average non-enthusiast consumer. Many here say their friends have loved the product. We tend to associate with those who think as we do. In my own experience, the reaction has been far more muted.
If you wish to comment in this thread, please discuss the topic of immersion. Attacking me is not OT. If you don't like what I have to say, don't read the thread, simple as that.
** I'm wondering if people using the Oculus are having a more immersive experience not because of the technology but because of superior content? Watched a YouTube of a guy playing Assetto Corsa on the Rift and it looked incredible.
Hi folks,
If you don't want to participate in this thread or any other created by the OP or feel that it's not contributing to the well-being of XDA, please don't post. Trolling and arguing is not allowed on any thread. If people would learn to ignore others, possibly there would be less negative back and forth posts. Everyone, please ignoring threads and posts you don't like. Differing opinions are fine and it's ok to disagree with them but it's really not that serious. However, if something is bothering you to the point of distraction, then call a moderator.
Regards
mitchellvii said:
And thanks for proving my point. You say, "so another thread about screen door effect ruining the experience for you?" Can you please point to me where in my OP I mention screen door effect at all? Right. I don't mention it. Not once.
This is a thread about whether you feel a "sense of immersion" that makes you say WOW.
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which is exactly the point where one could argue that thats exactly the same thing. because, why again is it that you feel a lack of immersion? judging from most of your posts, that would be...oh right, the screen door effect.
q.e.d.
mitchellvii said:
I am pleased that so many of you do. I have now shown this device to 10 people and not a single person has reacted that way. The general reaction has been, "Well, it's kind of cool but not what I expected" I ask them if they feel like they are "there" and not a single person has said yes. Most of my friends are older successful business people who aren't amazed by the latest bit of kit. Maybe older people have a more difficult time entering the VR world because they've been in the real world so long? 3 different people said, "Based upon the videos I've seen online I was expecting more (paraphrasing)".
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so, to be a bit more blunt, youre saying that in contrast to these friends of yours, whoever would disagree with their findings probably does so because...they "havent been in the real world for so long"? or maybe because theyre not "successful business people". or maybe because theyre "fanboys" that "make the mistake of not seeing this through the eyes of the average non-enthusiast consumer".
those are the things you are implying (albeit in a somewhat subtle, suggestive way). well then, so be it. i will leave this discussion, but id like to point out towards the forum moderation that the question about who is trolling and who is not is at the very least somewhat debatable.
zorglub667 said:
which is exactly the point where one could argue that thats exactly the same thing. because, why again is it that you feel a lack of immersion? judging from most of your posts, that would be...oh right, the screen door effect.
q.e.d.
so, to be a bit more blunt, youre saying that in contrast to these friends of yours, whoever would disagree with their findings probably does so because...they "havent been in the real world for so long"? or maybe because theyre not "successful business people". or maybe because theyre "fanboys" that "make the mistake of not seeing this through the eyes of the average non-enthusiast consumer".
those are the things you are implying (albeit in a somewhat subtle, suggestive way). well then, so be it. i will leave this discussion, but id like to point out towards the forum moderation that the question about who is trolling and who is not is at the very least somewhat debatable.
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Once again you are attributing your interpretation to my intent then damning me for it. Do us both a favor and take my words at face value. I don't have a subtle meaning or agenda.
I was simply expressing the experiences of my friends and because it disagrees with your experience it has apparently short circuited your brain and convinced you that you possess psychic powers.
Couple factoids you should consider. Most people who lurk (read but do not comment) at this forum probably do not yet own the GVR. They are just here to read feedback from owners. The average typical consumer that buys a GVR from BestBuy has no idea XDA even exists, and so they won't be commenting. So we are left with mainly enthusiasts who are at least somewhat invested in the idea they made a good purchase. That's not to say their opinion is not 100% valid, but it is to say that one should not project the opinions here to the rest of the marketplace. The sample is skewed. It is my opinion that the typical non enthusiast consumer will not be as impressed with the sense of immersion as you are. My friends which are a good sample of an older non enthusiast demographic were not. They all thought it was cool. No one was saying OMG and begging me to try it again.
Here's a perfect example in the differences of perceived immersion:
I just played DreadHalls after watching a YouTube of a full grown man playing it. He was so frightened that I literally thought he was going to pee his pants. He had to take a break mid-game just to catch his breath and calm his nerves.
So anyway, I just played it. Seriously, WTF? I might have found this scary when I was 8. Just think really really weak Doom. I say weak Doom because Doom actually was scary. Immersive? I guess if cartoon bricks and groaning noises are immersive for you. So here is an example of a user who was actually physically frightened by a game I just found silly. He kept saying, "Wow, it's like I'm really there!" I kept saying, "Wow, cartoon bricks!"
I don't blame the Gear VR. A large part preventing me from experiencing immersion is simply a lack of content. I'm also spoiled by years of triple monitor gaming with a fast PC and awesome video card. Now THAT'S immersive. When they create games that have the realism and texture of the Lunar Theater, then I'll start getting more excited about this platform.
Just played HeroBound for the first time (didn't have a controller before). Now that game is very immersive. The opening scene with the big volcano is amazing. If you haven't played that game definitely give it a try. Hopefully someone will bring that level of graphics to a 1st person shooter.
Haha, I get what you mean. I read one thread on reddit saying that he was 'crying' after using the gearvr for the first time. LOL. Seriously, I just don't get it. I want VR to succeed so much, but I also have my feet on the ground and don't let the hype go straight to my head. Using it, the sweet spot for focus is tiny, right in the middle of the lense, look up or down left or right without moving your head and it immediately starts to get proportionally blurry. The resolution reminds of looking at one of those digital projectors from 10 years ago, the panasonic AE300. The resolution was quarter HD, like the iPhone 4 except blown up on a massive screen. That's what movie watching experience is like in Occulus Cinema, the black screen door probably takes 30% or more of the 'full' image, it just looks really bad, and that's not even talking about the low ass resolution this rectangle takes up.
Some might say I'm being too harsh, whenever I get a new product I find all the flaws first and gradually get used to those flaws if I decide to keep it. But I never say this product is better than it really is. Some might get caught up on the hype train and want for VR to succeed so much they never talk about what's currently wrong/broken or what can be improved. I think it will succeed eventually, but clearly the GearVR is not a consumer ready product. I honestly laugh thinking if Samsung released GearVR without Oculus and John Carmack's expertise. I mean the smoothness of the experience is what makes it special, not the lenses, or the screen.
Having said that, the one place it just works is games. Herobound, that ring toss game, Ikarus. These fixed point experiences are much better imo, competely avoids motion sickness and maximises the phone's graphic ability. The sea creatures of Ocean Rift have a solidity and fluidity that creates a compelling experience and makes me believe that VR is inevitable. The comments from people really depend on what previous experience and expectation the user has. Most people don't expect anything, don't have anything to compare it to and are amazed with Google cardboard when they first see it. The main issue that disappointed me was the fact that I had paid 250 for lenses that have barely acceptable focus and awful peripheral vision. GearVR needs way more adjustment, not only distance, but angle and individual lense focus.
Then regarding the media quality of the 360 video demos. Ranging from meh to this is terrible. The best material has been from alternative sources It's disappointing that Samsung supplied such low quality videos with the premier of a new category. One would think they want to prove what VR is really capable of. At least host a site where users can download high quality 360 video, 360 is probably overrated too, 180 is very immersive and a better balance of quality vs filesize.
The catalogue currently available is still small. I can see how new users can blow through content in a few days and leave the GearVR to gather dust. Overall this is very much a beta product. Procuring one was a pain in the hole as well, much like the Note 4 process. Samsung should definitely copy how Apple rolls out products.