Related
I never thought id see the day, but it seems that developers are now favoring the iphone. The app store is growing considerably and less efforts are made for windows mobile. Let us take Shaznam, sky by mobile, facebook, myspace, ebay etc - all have fast dedicated iphone apps that take advantage of its display, yet the diamond for example has a higher resolution sreen, but (in the case of facebook) is left with terrible alternatives (such as faceimobiliser). Developers are embrasing iphone and leaving windows mobile behind. This depresses me and makes the future of windows mobile uncertain.
Share you views...
Apple and VC's have put a lot of funding into iphone apps development. Then when an app has been created the developer can sell it from the app store, a place with many eyes peering.
I'm not aware of any funding or app store equivelant for windows mobile. Which is a shame.
As a developer myself I can see the appeal for developing for the iphone.
don't you worry. as long xda-dev is here....
i think the reason is the growing number of iPhone users and the potential market for iP software. as for the quality of the software....they'll have to work hard for years to get where we, the wm users are.
Re
I agree, but what has this to do with the diamond, is the general chat not a better forum for this topic...
swiftgs said:
I agree, but what has this to do with the diamond, is the general chat not a better forum for this topic...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll tell you why. Because the Diamond is the most fully fledged windows mobile device that is comparable to the iphone. The iphone gets brilliant apps such as facebook, myspace and more yet the diamond, while able to run apps of this quality, is left out. Yes the facebook app vexes me most, its so freaking awesome on the iphone, I would love to have facebook alerts on my diamond while being able to view pictures full screen on that gorgeous vga screen. The technology of the diamond is being wasted...
Unfortunately, I must concur with you there. It looks to me that WM is facing a dead end, because of performance issues and speed. Using Internet is still an issue and there are a lot of instances when some apps are crashing when installed on such device. Yahoo! Go for example is one of them. MS needs to spend more time and money on teir OS or face the extinction. It's a shame that Diamond looks second rate to iPhone, because of OS problems.
There are MANY iphones in the world, yet in comparison there are VERY FEW Diamonds (or WM phones with VGA screens).
WM7 is the future though.
With Apple's iPhone hype, lots of attention has been drawn to that platform. Many developers want to get on that hype to get some attention right now. However, as the hype passes, I think only real quality programs on the iPhone will have a future, just as only real quality programs are being developed for WM right now.
I think it might not be the Apple platform we should be very affraid for, but possibly the upcoming Android platform, which might get the best of both worlds.
What ever, I would rather die than getting a fruityphone.
fruitphone SUCKS
Remember second best they are!!!!!!!!!!
Im sorry im gonna do this on every fruityphone thread, I just despise the damm fruit.
ok heres the deal
ok so there are 2 reasons that not as many developers are making stuff for win mo as we would like (im a developer by the way) so..
the first reason is that there is no uniformity between windows mobile phones and pocket pcs for instance i have a diamond with:
530mhz cpu
16mb graphics card that developers cant use
192mb of memory (64 of which is not available to use)
a g-sensor
640 by 480 screen
gps hardware
touch scrollwheel and lightsensor with 2 cams
one of my friends got a phone a few weeks ago just before the diamond came out a tytn II (kasier) now its a great phone still but it only has:
400mhz cpu
128mb of memory
320 by 240 screen
gps hardware
lightsensor with 2 cams
now as a dev what do i do?
do i make a great game for the diamond?
do i spend more time and let the project quality suffer by making sure it runs on at least 100 differnt winmo phones?
do i make a game that runs at only 320 by 240 and dosnt use anything new and just hope that all phones from now on can run it?
that is the one thing that the iphone has over us (it may be a very mediocre phone and a crappy gaming/entertainment device but they are all the same) and until this has been rectified we will keep loseing devs to the iphone
BUT something big is going to be happening when windows mobile 7 comes out early next year things will change windows mobile 7 imposes some hardware restrictions to hardware makers these being:
640 by 480 screen rez as a minimum (that must support touch)
16mb graphics hardware that must have fully unlocked drivers for devs
256mb ram as a minimum
512mb rom minimum
tilt sensor is optional but must be compatible with windows mobile 7s tilt api
gps is optional but must be compatible with windows mobile 7s gps api
(gps and tilt are not required but if it has one it must be compatibal with winmo7 by doing this it means that any game that uses a tilt sensor will be able to work on any device with one)
and the biggest one is it must have as a minimum a 600mhz arm11 cpu
all these things will change the way devs make apps and games for winmobile it means that anything made for any winmo7 phone will run on any other winmo7 phone at the same min speed and other than that it will be like a pc game may have low mid and high settings incase you have a 32mb graphics card but they also know that you will have to have a 16mb card at the min
nvidias Tegra is going to be an all in one chip with a 600 or 800mhz arm 11 cpu a 16mb gfx card and image and video decoders all biult in anything that uses this will be fully winmo7 compliant
end rant lol and for anyone that actually bothers to read all of this good job
bump for discussion..
will win mobile 7 be available to usage on the diamond as well ? i'm curious about this and i haven't found any info on this.
on-topic: it's funny how i chose the diamond over the iPhone. my decision relied mostly on the customization abilities of this phone and here i was not thinking of windows mobile since this is my first pocket pc. i was astonished by the sheer posibilities you can find inside such a phone and all available no thanks to the curtesy of the producers but of users like you and me and all the others. i think that as long as we'll be around, so will the developers, because even i could be one if i wanted too, especially cause i just bought a winmobile device that i'm happy with. so it's all about will.
darthbane2k said:
I never thought id see the day, but it seems that developers are now favoring the iphone. The app store is growing considerably and less efforts are made for windows mobile. Let us take Shaznam, sky by mobile, facebook, myspace, ebay etc - all have fast dedicated iphone apps that take advantage of its display, yet the diamond for example has a higher resolution sreen, but (in the case of facebook) is left with terrible alternatives (such as faceimobiliser). Developers are embrasing iphone and leaving windows mobile behind. This depresses me and makes the future of windows mobile uncertain.
Share you views...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Kid, you already made a thread about this same topic, stop being a little girl and let it go. It's old, it's played, it's done.
If you google android gpu acceleration, you'll see numerous threads on other sites of people asking for it and others saying there hardware is smooth enough.
I don't want to discuss the merit of gpu acceleration as I think it's a given. What I'd like to know is a list of apps that do. But also, if these apps can, why isn't it utilized system-wide? Other threads mentioned older hardware could only have one opengl layer, so if your launcher was gpu accelerated, then a game wouldn't launch. I doubt this is the issue now with more recent hardware.
Is there any side project trying to add this to say cyanogen?
Anyway, I know launcher pro is accelerated. The scrolling through applications is like night and day with other launchers. Also the latest Opera is accelerated. It seems like the built-in gallery app is accelerated. I'm not sure about any of the pdf viewers. ezpdf seems the smoothest, but again, it might be just more optimized over other pdf readers.
So is there a list of apps that utilize the gpu? (besides games obviously)
I'm not sure if it's a video driver issue from device to device, but if that's so, how can a small app like launcher pro work accelerated on numerous devices?
sark666 said:
But also, if these apps can, why isn't it utilized system-wide?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because a lot of Android phones can't take it.
Other threads mentioned older hardware could only have one opengl layer, so if your launcher was gpu accelerated, then a game wouldn't launch. I doubt this is the issue now with more recent hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, but Android's target is a huge range of hardware- some very crappy. Read up on Android's "fragmentation problem."
Is there any side project trying to add this to say cyanogen?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A composite based GUI is a HUGE project. It is WAY beyond the scope of this community. It is what delayed Windows Vista for so long, and was a huge reason why many people didn't like Vista (as hardware around its launch couldn't handle the interface).
It took the Linux desktop over three years to add a decent composite GUI, and that was with MANY large companies working on it.
Composite based GUIs are VERY VERY difficult to get right. The only reason Apple has it right is from the get go that was the best part of OSX. Apple's engineers somehow got its composite GUI (called Quartz) on old low-MHz PowerPC machines, and that miracle of technology has not been duplicated anywhere else. In fact, that was the competitive advantage that Apple took with it to the phone market once phones were as powerful as old PowerPC machines.
Other OS's that use a GPU accelerated GUI just have to have very strict minimums for hardware. For example, look at the minimums for Window's phones. Any one of those would be high-end in the Android market.
I'm not sure if it's a video driver issue from device to device, but if that's so, how can a small app like launcher pro work accelerated on numerous devices?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Run Launcher Pro on an older Android device like a Droid 1 and you would be singing a different tune as to how smooth it is. The fact of the matter is that the Android eco-system isn't ready yet....
Hmm, compiz made huge improvements quite rapidly so I don't know about 3 years to get it right. The benefits were immediate; maybe refinements as it went along.
Regardless if it is huge undertaking, google has to address this. I've read articles where they say it's more garbage collecting vs an accelerated gui. Here's a brief but good article on it: http://www.satine.org/archives/2011/01/01/the-care-and-feeding-of-the-android-gpu/
And linux is a good example, the initial beginnings of compiz were a very small group of developers and features were being added very rapidly.
It turns a lot of people off android when they see a sluggish OS, or the appearance of a sluggish OS.
At any rate, my question still stands. you mention older devices needed to being supported. Then how does an app like launcher pro do it? I'm sure it doesn't have custom drivers for all the various gpu's out there? Same with Opera.
And I'd still like a list of (if there is one) of gpu accelerated apps. If the OS doesn't have it, then it would be nice to have it at the app level. Although I see that causing more headaches down the road instead of the OS doing it.
Anyway, google doesn't sound like they are taking this issue seriously. Or dismissing it as not necessary, but I think that's a mistake. On a traditional desktop OS, it's a nice to have but not really necessary, as most things are static. But given the size of the these devices, menus/icons etc are usually moved about cascade and expand etc. Items are dragged and moved etc. All this calls for an interface that maintains a high fps or otherwise it gives the perception of feeling laggy.
Trust me...rewriting Android to do automatic compositing is a huge undertaking. This would be very difficult to do while maintaining compatibility which existing applications. Honeycomb has compositing but it isn't enabled in applications by default because it can break applications with custom drawing. I don't see any reason for us to attempt to implement composting when its already done about as well as anyone can do it in Honeycomb.
sark666 said:
Hmm, compiz made huge improvements quite rapidly so I don't know about 3 years to get it right. The benefits were immediate; maybe refinements as it went along.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GPU GUI acceleration on the Linux desktop didn't start with Compiz. GPU GUI acceleration started in 2004 when Keith Packard added the composite patch to Xorg. David Reveman began working on XGL and Compiz around that time, and didn't release a workable beta version until 2006.
Yet that beta version relied on XGL, which was basically running the Linux desktop like you would a video game. It wasn't until AIGLX became stabilized in open source and closed source drivers in 2007 that GPU GUI acceleration on the Linux desktop was finished (I am huge Xorg junkie, that is why I know these random facts).
Regardless if it is huge undertaking, google has to address this. I've read articles where they say it's more garbage collecting vs an accelerated gui.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I have heard, Honeycomb supposedly has a GPU accelerated GUI. But we don't know till we can see the code.
It turns a lot of people off android when they see a sluggish OS, or the appearance of a sluggish OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would say that the sluggishness is only obvious next to iOS- other mobile OSes also lack such abilities. Compared to iOS Android has mostly targeted the lower-end user segment where quality of experience is less important than raw price (hence the many underpowered Android phones).
Eventually due to attrition the baseline will increase in power and old phones will be cut off for new features such as this. I have already heard that Gingerbread runs terrible on a Droid 1, which is barely a two year old phone.
Then how does an app like launcher pro do it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same way games do it- they just run like crap on older phones. Google can't afford to take that approach with the entire OS.
And I'd still like a list of (if there is one) of gpu accelerated apps. If the OS doesn't have it, then it would be nice to have it at the app level.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me too.
Anyway, google doesn't sound like they are taking this issue seriously.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that is an accurate assessment. I think Google believes that in time the hardware itself wil cover this inadequacy- it matters less on dual core phones. Its all those poor people that bought early Android phones that have had to suffer the most...
I'm sure it's not trivial, but again standalone apps seemed to have done it. I know OS wide is another issue. But really, honeycomb is really late when it comes to this. It really should have been a 2.x feature. I"m the exact opposite of an apple fan boy, but the first iphone in 2007 had this. That set the bar right there. What 4 years later and google is almost on it? And yes iphone is a fixed device, but still. An abstraction layer should have been worked on so if a device has a gpu it's used, otherwise fallback to software.
And on a side note, It would still be nice to know apps that do implement this now.
sark666 said:
An abstraction layer should have been worked on so if a device has a gpu it's used, otherwise fallback to software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am a huge fan of this stuff (I actually had a blog about composite back in the day) and I can tell you after hacking on many devices and OSes, only ONCE have I seen a decent software-based compositor. OSX. That is it, in the whole world.
In fact, Apple's entire "magic" empire of devices is built on that unique competitive advantage. Part of what has made it work is that composite was there from day one- unlike a Linux, Windows or Android, OSX/iOS has ALWAYS had composite so applications had to work with it.
And it wasn't a painless process. Early OSX versions (until Tiger I think) all had major composite bugs (to the point I am good at spotting them). Part of Apple's advantage is that initially the OSX base was so small that it didn't matter what broke and what didn't.
So essentially it is not a 4 year gap, but is more like a 10 year advantage. All those old PowerPC Mac users paid out the nose to make modern Apple phones the pleasant experience they are.
To me the saving grace of Android is that Google allows developers to replace major parts. So maybe the entire OS will never have real GPU acceleration, but Google doesn't stop the Operas and Launcher Pros of the world to replace essential functions with apps that CAN leverage that ability. That way different parts of the OS get fixed up by those who are best at that part, and those with weaker hardware can do without.
So yeah, a list would be nice.
Well even Windows XP seems to dust Android's best. For example, browsing these very forums on my pathetic netbook is smooth but on NC it is extremely slow unless Opera Mobile is used. Even Honeycomb's browser is slow scrolling these forums. It is pretty mind blowing that in 2011 there would be 2D GUI inadequacies like this.
But the reason is as has been said: there are phones with really poor GPUs running Android. So Google basically set the bar too low in order to probably lower the cost to develop an Android device and now they don't want to break compatibility. Although I don't see why 3.0 couldn't have been more ambitious.
Not Quite A List of Android GPU Apps
GPU Acceleration will be system wide when Ice Cream Sandwich is released. I stumbled upon this thread hoping to find specific apps. I am of the Nvidia Bootcamp, so that influenced me to get a Droid X2. There are some killer apps that work perfect with GPU acceleration. I am rather surprised to find that this thread became a history lesson, much which I knew and Wikipedia could tell me.
I am using a Movie Player on Android called MX Video Player (FREE and Free Codec Download Required). It works extremely well. This app is an excellent example of quality software taking advantage of GPU acceleration, before a system wide implementation. I doubt "MX" will get better when ICS is here.
As for CyanogenMod none that I know of other than the ICS port they are cooking up. Has to do with ICS SDK API 14, that is the framework for it?
When I find more I will add to the list here, that is if I dont forget.
Oh and that snyde XP comment.... Let me know how the android gui and os is when it has had ten years in the limelight, with patches and bug fixes!
Hi Forum, I hope this is the right forum to pose this question and to discuss the topic
ok the question:
Am I the only one who is bugged by the fact that, to close most applications in WP (wheter it is active or in background), we have to tap the "Back" button as many times as the number of pages? here are some pics so you can understand my point xD
http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/9092/31238975.png
http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/5176/30856883.png
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/4329/28248076.png
As you can see from the last 2 pics, in this case, the user has to click backwards at least 2 times in order to close the application.
Wouldn't it be better to have a small icon in order to close the application completly?
Something like:
http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/2318/50922462.png
So! What are your opinions?
Is there something like this already?
Do you think that a mod or something could help out with this "problem"?
Do you think WP8 has a feature/solution for this?
Or is it just something personal xD ?
There is no other way but there is also no need.
The background applications do not consume CPU like they do on android, and if memory is needed, the OS simply closes them down.
mcosmin222 said:
There is no other way but there is also no need.
The background applications do not consume CPU like they do on android, and if memory is needed, the OS simply closes them down.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well many, do still think that closing apps directly is better...
http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/6/3464142/wp8-fixes-multi-tasking
Taurenking said:
Well many, do still think that closing apps directly is better...
http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/6/3464142/wp8-fixes-multi-tasking
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So it would seem and though they are thinking about the whole thing wrong this mind set cant be ignored even if it is wrong. A lot of people come from the Android ios world of background tasks killing battery life and performance.
Maybe if they have a close app in the tiles screen to address these concerns. Even if you know something is not needed if the customer thinks (even wrongly) that it is then you are going to look like your product is not as good even though you know as an expert that it is. I get this all the time in my job and that's why I use the mother test, I send an idea to my mother and if she gets it then I know its good if not I rework it.
Idk about IOS but in android it is a mistake to close down applications in most cases.
In fact, many people don't know that pressing the close button does not actually close the app, but move it to cached processes. You then have to kill it again in there to finish the job.
Anyway, many apps are persistent in android. Killing them will only make the system want to restore them again, thus eating more CPU than they would have if they were running.
On the other hand, they do represent a resource hug when not closed.
SO on this aspect, android does have a big problem with its multitasking and this is the main reason why android is such a resource hog, and requires quad core CPUs and loads of RAM to get the job done right. And google isn't doing much about this, in fact they continue with the resource waist, which will inevitably put a cap on how much android can do.
As for Windows Phone, it is fairly easy to restore the application to its stage before closing it down. People just don't know about that (and neither most of the developers).
Android phone and WP7 phone have almost same battery life, however, android has true multitasking but not in WP7, which means WP7 actually comsume more power. From my point of view, if I want to close an app, I don't want to see it appear in the backgroud. This give the chance to run it unexpectedly if I accidently tap it in multitask screen
The battery life is a non-issue with multitasking.
It doesn't matter how many apps are running, the CPU uses the same amount of power.
On the other hand, android is much slower than windows phone, which is because the android multitasking is a resource hog that is not really needed.
Remember we are on phones after all, not super computer.
If there is not much to do CPUs clock down or go to sleep completely for some time therefore reducing power consumption. On Multi-Cores in low utilization cores are sometimes completely powered down. So if only one program is running and it's not a game needing the CPUs full power it's highly likely that the CPU will use much less power.
If instead I have several Apps running in the background then I have a higher CPU utilization that doesn't really help me with what I'm currently doing (with the foreground app). That is why background Apps are frozen on iOS and WP unless they do something specifically allowed (so nothing happens in the background that's not really necessary).
mcosmin222 said:
On the other hand, android is much slower than windows phone, which is because the android multitasking is a resource hog that is not really needed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One could argue your point. I'll agree that WP7 runs great with low spec phones, but the new Android devices are simply faster. Compared to my mom's SGIII, my Arrive is painfully slow at loading apps and websites. Also, the SGIII lasts considerably longer than my Arrive, which shows that poor battery life on android devices are a thing of the past*.
Dont get me wrong, I want the WP platform to succeed(I think its a great OS), but it still has a long way to go; and limiting the max spec of WP8 to barely beyond current generation tech really sets the bar low.
*yes, I'm aware of the SGIII's battery size. Still, I can easily get two days out of it, vs my Arrive lasting 1-1.5 days
StevieBallz said:
If there is not much to do CPUs clock down or go to sleep completely for some time therefore reducing power consumption. On Multi-Cores in low utilization cores are sometimes completely powered down. So if only one program is running and it's not a game needing the CPUs full power it's highly likely that the CPU will use much less power.
If instead I have several Apps running in the background then I have a higher CPU utilization that doesn't really help me with what I'm currently doing (with the foreground app). That is why background Apps are frozen on iOS and WP unless they do something specifically allowed (so nothing happens in the background that's not really necessary).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The core clock is a non-issue on android.
You will never be able to stop all applications, some of them (most of them) return minutes latter, because the OS is programmed to restore them. Many poorly programed applications behave like system applications and they keep running all the time.Standards are pretty low in Android. Which is why things like app closers, scheduled task managers and other stuff like that exist.
One could argue your point. I'll agree that WP7 runs great with low spec phones, but the new Android devices are simply faster. Compared to my mom's SGIII, my Arrive is painfully slow at loading apps and websites. Also, the SGIII lasts considerably longer than my Arrive, which shows that poor battery life on android devices are a thing of the past*.
Dont get me wrong, I want the WP platform to succeed(I think its a great OS), but it still has a long way to go; and limiting the max spec of WP8 to barely beyond current generation tech really sets the bar low.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Compare the specs of the new android phones. Compare their prices as well.
SGIII literally has 4 times the processing power of the highest end WP7.5 devices currently on the market, and performance is comparable between the two. WP is an awesome platform. Android is not even close.
mcosmin222 said:
Compare the specs of the new android phones. Compare their prices as well.
SGIII literally has 4 times the processing power of the highest end WP7.5 devices currently on the market, and performance is comparable between the two. WP is an awesome platform. Android is not even close.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The US spec SGIII uses the Krait processor, not the quad core. While it would be comparing apples to oranges, in a sense, I still stand by my case: with the proper hardware, the Android platform can be just as effective.
My stance stems from the arguement that WP7 is a better OS because it runs very well on basic hardware. This claim drove me nuts because M$ was so bent on proving that point, that flagship devices ran on half the hardware Android phones of that generation were currently utilizing.
Comparatively, it's the difference between running XP and Vista on legacy hardware vs current hardware.. People were knocking Vista because it was a resource hog and ran like crap on most computers; on the other hand, it runs better than XP machines when kitted out with newer hardware. One OS runs very well on less specs, but plateus very quickly, where the other platform requires more resources, but scales better when properly complemented.
In essence, WP7 is XP
I hope you arent portraying me as an Android fanboy, because I'm not; I'm just being brutally honest here. I really want to see WP8 succeed where WP7 fell flat, but seeing MS fitting compatibility specs of WP8 devices with fairly short outlook leaves me feeling uneasy.
BTW: I've been using Microsoft PDA's and smartphones since 2004, and have used both android and iOS devices for about six months out of those eight years. Juust so you know where I come from =)
Actually the OS does quite often not have that much influence on actual application performance. The big criticism of Android has always been that it tended to perform crappy (force closes, stutters) even on high end hardware. Some of that has to do with process priorization, some with missing hardware acceleration, etc. Google is working on that with every new release.
Especially in games one noticed that the devices lacked in real power on the hardware side. Another problematic decission was the use of the panorama controls. Those are side-scrolling controls with very often vertical endless scrollers inside them. This is actually rather complex to render and I would guess is responsible for most of the badly performing apps around. This is further complicated by the fact that non-developers rarely can grasp intuitively the actual computational cost associated with certain visuals (hence the often cited: WPs minimalist design is easier to compute then Android/iOSs more complex UI elements).
Microsoft was aiming at the possibility to produce cheaper devices. There were citations that the average WP7.5 device only cost $200 to produce. That strategy obviously didn't work out so well. Maybe due to the fact that the devices still were sold at flagship prices.
StevieBallz said:
Especially in games one noticed that the devices lacked in real power on the hardware side. Another problematic decission was the use of the panorama controls. Those are side-scrolling controls with very often vertical endless scrollers inside them. This is actually rather complex to render and I would guess is responsible for most of the badly performing apps around. This is further complicated by the fact that non-developers rarely can grasp intuitively the actual computational cost associated with certain visuals (hence the often cited: WPs minimalist design is easier to compute then Android/iOSs more complex UI elements).
Microsoft was aiming at the possibility to produce cheaper devices. There were citations that the average WP7.5 device only cost $200 to produce. That strategy obviously didn't work out so well. Maybe due to the fact that the devices still were sold at flagship prices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That'sbut back to the topic: the fact is that wheter it consumes cpu or not, the average user would like it to be easier to "kill" an application without pressing the "GoBack" button multiple times. That's the main argument. Leave all the CPU, and Core Processor argument behind , cuz WP os deals beautifully with this...
Hey everybody, I wanted to see if some of the regulars here might wish to join me in a thought experiment.
I've been given an opportunity to give input on a new tablet that is being developed, with the two guiding principles being future-proofing and maximum user control. I am wondering, from a dev point of view, what options or features would you find desirable. I will give you some of the pre-pre-alpha specs (enough so my cohorts don't shank me for saying too much)
8.9" screen
x86 CPU (Skylake)
64-bit UEFI BIOS
64GB storage
SDXC (2TB support)
8GB LPDDR4E
USB 3.1-B x2
Bluetooth 5.0
WACOM active stylus
6000mah battery
Qualcomm Quick Charge 3.0
From what I know so far, it is going to involve some heavy customization on the package (mostly because of what I haven't yet mentioned, so they have 6-9 months of flexibility if we want to make changes. I am trying to talk them into open-sourcing the whole shebang (I'd kill for any device with a truly FOSS BIOS, so I can multi-boot and et cetera)
Any feedback is appreciated.
no updates
diehard2013 said:
no updates
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Becauase JIDE was dead.
come again
Totally dead. They already give official statement in their Facebook Page
Requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine,
et lux perpetua luceat eis.
JIDE is NOT dead - just targeting enterprises (not ordinary users)
diehard2013 said:
Requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine,
et lux perpetua luceat eis.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
JIDE is moving FROM ordinary users to enterprises; and I don't exactly blame them.
Let's be honest with ourselves - the two biggest problems RemixOS products face (all of them) is that they aim (literally) too high in the Android-on-PC subspace (two ways they aim too high - they are based on MM - not KK or L, which is where all the action is, and the reality is that - for precisely that reason - RemixOS is STILL too "hefty" for the Android-emulator space (which is still where the action remains, as opposed to the replacement-for-Windows space). If you have 16 GB of RAM, you CAN run RemixOS alongside Windows - however, why would you, unless there is a specific app/game that you want to run that requires MM or N - and even then, it's STILL easier to run that game or app on a device. The only folks that are going to be looking at that niche use (and the reality is that it IS a niche use) are enterprises and corporate users - not the everyday user. And, if anything, the availability of cheaper N devices (such as the launch of Lnovo's Tab 3 Essential line - which is now based on a commodity-designed Qualcomm SoC - as opposed to the original Mediatek SoC that Lenovo started with) has created a reliable easier-to-target SoC without the problems of Mediatek (at least for now, Qualcomm is NOT repeating the errors that got them in hot water in the networking space - the same errors that got Mediatek in hot water in the SoC space); basically, Qualcomm learned from the mistake they made in networking - the same mistake that the competition did NOT learn (and instead repeated). Result - the complaint that folks are making about Qualcomm is that they are a quasi-monopoly; however, how is it Qualcomm's fault that it learned from the mistakes that IT made elsewhere - and their competition largely didn't? Unless Qualcomm makes a similar egregious error to the one that Mediatek made (or that Qualcomm itself made in networking) I don't see them going anywhere - especially with other ARM licensees and competitors shooting themselves in one or both feet.
If you are in the emulation space (running alongside Windows), there is next to zero reason you would want an MM-based emulator - and especially if you have less than 16GB of system RAM. (I found myself replacing RemixOS Player with MEMu Player (which is still based on KitKat) after I added a second N-based Android device (ex-VZW Galaxy S7 running in SIMless/tablet mode) to my daily-driver Samsung GNex. Let's be honest - even as a TABLET, the two-year-old Snapdragon-driven S7 is far from a slouch; it's plenty speedy - and without the heavy lifting that phones typically have to do, if anything, it's even faster. Then there is the reality that there aren't many tablets (or phablets, for that matter) that can run N reliably without causing wallet rape (all of seven prior to the return of the Note7 - now the Note7 FE) - and three of those are not only Nexus devices, but are no longer manufactured - Nexus 6 (Motorola), Nexus 7 (ASUS) and Nexus 9 (HTC). The other four? Shield K1 (nVidia), Shield Original tablet (also nVidia), Galaxy Tab S2 (Samsung) and Pixel C. The vote in terms of emulators of the Android sort remains low-end/cheap - not the higher end stuff that JIDE built.
PGHammer said:
JIDE is moving FROM ordinary users to enterprises; and I don't exactly blame them.
Let's be honest with ourselves - the two biggest problems RemixOS products face (all of them) is that they aim (literally) too high in the Android-on-PC subspace (two ways they aim too high - they are based on MM - not KK or L, which is where all the action is, and the reality is that - for precisely that reason - RemixOS is STILL too "hefty" for the Android-emulator space (which is still where the action remains, as opposed to the replacement-for-Windows space). If you have 16 GB of RAM, you CAN run RemixOS alongside Windows - however, why would you, unless there is a specific app/game that you want to run that requires MM or N - and even then, it's STILL easier to run that game or app on a device. The only folks that are going to be looking at that niche use (and the reality is that it IS a niche use) are enterprises and corporate users - not the everyday user. And, if anything, the availability of cheaper N devices (such as the launch of Lnovo's Tab 3 Essential line - which is now based on a commodity-designed Qualcomm SoC - as opposed to the original Mediatek SoC that Lenovo started with) has created a reliable easier-to-target SoC without the problems of Mediatek (at least for now, Qualcomm is NOT repeating the errors that got them in hot water in the networking space - the same errors that got Mediatek in hot water in the SoC space); basically, Qualcomm learned from the mistake they made in networking - the same mistake that the competition did NOT learn (and instead repeated). Result - the complaint that folks are making about Qualcomm is that they are a quasi-monopoly; however, how is it Qualcomm's fault that it learned from the mistakes that IT made elsewhere - and their competition largely didn't? Unless Qualcomm makes a similar egregious error to the one that Mediatek made (or that Qualcomm itself made in networking) I don't see them going anywhere - especially with other ARM licensees and competitors shooting themselves in one or both feet.
If you are in the emulation space (running alongside Windows), there is next to zero reason you would want an MM-based emulator - and especially if you have less than 16GB of system RAM. (I found myself replacing RemixOS Player with MEMu Player (which is still based on KitKat) after I added a second N-based Android device (ex-VZW Galaxy S7 running in SIMless/tablet mode) to my daily-driver Samsung GNex. Let's be honest - even as a TABLET, the two-year-old Snapdragon-driven S7 is far from a slouch; it's plenty speedy - and without the heavy lifting that phones typically have to do, if anything, it's even faster. Then there is the reality that there aren't many tablets (or phablets, for that matter) that can run N reliably without causing wallet rape (all of seven prior to the return of the Note7 - now the Note7 FE) - and three of those are not only Nexus devices, but are no longer manufactured - Nexus 6 (Motorola), Nexus 7 (ASUS) and Nexus 9 (HTC). The other four? Shield K1 (nVidia), Shield Original tablet (also nVidia), Galaxy Tab S2 (Samsung) and Pixel C. The vote in terms of emulators of the Android sort remains low-end/cheap - not the higher end stuff that JIDE built.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
in vino veritas, acta non verba..
diehard2013 said:
in vino veritas, acta non verba..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just a thought here: If Jide had any thoughts about not being committed to this project, why did they even bother collaborating with the Android-x86 project in the first place? And why did they wait so long, between the latest releases of Remix OS (mid-November) and the official announcement?
With Remix OS for PC/Windows out of the picture (and with it, gone is perhaps one of the best--if not THE best--graphic environments for an Android-based OS), which of the remaining Android-based operating systems would you recommend? Right now, I'm giving consideration to either Phoenix or BlueStacks. If I had to choose, I'd be tempted to go with BlueStacks, because it has its own front end (or whatever it is called, which Remix OS had in Remix OS Player) which runs inside Win7/10; while for Phoenix (which has the better-looking graphic environment), I'd probably have to use VirtualBox or VMware, since as of now I don't know if they (or anyone else) developed a front end for this OS to run in a window inside Win7/10.
CookyMonzta said:
Just a thought here: If Jide had any thoughts about not being committed to this project, why did they even bother collaborating with the Android-x86 project in the first place? And why did they wait so long, between the latest releases of Remix OS (mid-November) and the official announcement?
With Remix OS for PC/Windows out of the picture (and with it, gone is perhaps one of the best--if not THE best--graphic environments for an Android-based OS), which of the remaining Android-based operating systems would you recommend? Right now, I'm giving consideration to either Phoenix or BlueStacks. If I had to choose, I'd be tempted to go with BlueStacks, because it has its own front end (or whatever it is called, which Remix OS had in Remix OS Player) which runs inside Win7/10; while for Phoenix (which has the better-looking graphic environment), I'd probably have to use VirtualBox or VMware, since as of now I don't know if they (or anyone else) developed a front end for this OS to run in a window inside Win7/10.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not that anything necessarily is WRONG with RemixOS - nobody has said that (not me - or anyone else, for that matter) - it's simply overkill for what most users want. It's like the market for high-end GPUs (without the price factor); it's still a niche market. As good a graphical environment as RemixOS - and Marshmallow itself, for that matter - is, why have things moved north (on actual Android devices) and stayed south (on Windows-based Android emulators)?
As the default OS (as is the case with devices), unless you are talking the low and cheap end, N is the new JellyBean - not MM. (Note that instead of doing OTAs for the existing J3 - which is running MM - Samsung chose a hardware refresh instead; this is despite the J3 pre-refresh being barely two years old - and not even that in North America,) As an emulator core (alongside or within Windows), the tendency is STILL to prefer lightweight emulators - which still means KitKat or JellyBean - primarily so Windows (the core OS) can keep most of the resources itself. RemixOS Player didn't require vmWare OR Oracle VirtualBox - just like most of the KK or JB-based emulators; hence none of them are shackled to HAXM. I RAN RemixOS Player because I could take higher-end Android games to it - which wasn't - and still isn't - the case for most emulators - with OR without HAXM. However, gaining that S7 did away with my own need for a high-end emulator. (Remember, the S7 - while not shipping with N - instead, it shipped with MM - now can be blanked and factory-type N-ified using nothing more complicated than either Odin or Heimdall.)
What is further trouble for JIDE is that N is expanding at the low-end. I mentioned earlier Samsung's J3 refresh (which is now N-based - not the MM of the previous version); the same is true of Lenovo's Tab 3 Essential - a refresh of the earlier Tab 2 series of tablets and phablets. Unlike the Tab 2 (which started at KK and went only to L - with only the phablets going beyond L with community ROMs, and typically in languages OTHER than English), the Tab 3 Essential has changed SoCs from MediaTek (MTK) to Qualcomm - they also ship with N out of the box. Amazingly, the price tags went nowhere compared to the MTK predecessors - even the largest of the new line is BARELY $100 from Amazon - including shipping for non-Prime customers. With N for cheap, whither RemixOS? (Basically, RemixOS is being made moot by N on devices - not nice, but there it is.)
What are you guys transitioning to? Any suggestion for someone who was looking into purchasing another Jide solution?
KingdomMan3 said:
What are you guys transitioning to? Any suggestion for someone who was looking into purchasing another Jide solution?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean SW or HE'S?
anyone still usinng it?
hi guys. anyone still using it? is it stable enough? im thinking to install it on my pixel c tablet
These are project for which
---------- Post added at 02:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:54 AM ----------
Give me a link pixel experience Android p for resume 4x
Hey guys,
I'm planning going back to Remix OS 3.0 (MM) on my Pixel C since AOSP really sucks for a lapotp like tablet like the Pixel C.
But I am worried about Security... Is it possible to use Antivir software like Avast to compensate the missing security updates?
If yes, can you recommend me an antivir app?