Database Develop

TPT ICS NANDROID Backup (rooted w/superuser - completely virgin) and other goodies!!

Hey hey XDA! (ignore the account name, I was 13 years old when I first joined XDA in like '08)
My father bought a refurbished TPT from TigerDirect and literally nothing worked. I factory wiped it and tried to update it so I could get the cameras working and other such things - but no luck. I started to crawl my way through the internet but neither Lenovo nor anybody else seemed to have the answers. I thought that since I was failing the SHA1 hash checks that I might as well start replacing the files and see where it gets me. Five hours later:
First try to restore my ICS nandroid backup, but if not, follow the mini-guide below! Also look at the end of the post for all my files!
For those of you that can't update because you're failing assertion checks:
Root your current version with one of the root tools in my package. Go to your advanced properties and see which Lenovo internal version you're running "0089, 0075, 0060, etc". There are three toolkits that I included and they all work; use the one for your version.
Flash the Ventana CWM.
Do a nandroid restore through CWM by going to backup->restore. It's going to wipe and install a clean 0075 Honeycomb build.
Root again, the pre 0089 package should be a relatively easy root to do.
Restore the factory recovery. I have one fresh from my tablet and one that I found floating around on the internet. You could use either (the one floating around worked fine for me, but if you want something 'newer' just use mine).
Connect to a WiFi network and check for updates. This is the part where it might get tricky. Not all of the files in the 0075 build that I attached were original (it wasn't my build, not my fault). If you get an assertion check, look at your error and see which file has failed. I only had to replace three files, gps.conf, Generic.kl, and the busybox binary. This theoretically should be the same for you. Try to update without replacement, and as the updates start to fail replace the files that are causing failure. The ones you need are attached in my bundle, but I have others too - so let me know if you'll need them!
By this step you should be on the ICS update. Root using the debugfs kit (in the ICS folder for rootkits) and then flash Koshu's recovery (which only worked for me on ICS). Do a backup. Live a happy life.
This procedure isn't meant to be very 'easy'; I am just attempting to make your inconsistencies match mine so they can be fixed in the same manner. A quick Google search showed me that a lot of people are missing different files with barely any files available. Everything I have was extracted from official packages from previous versions. I think I managed to 'get lucky'.
You can find everything that you need on my website. I won't ever take this down save for a plane crashing into the datacenter where it's hosted. There are copies of all the files I mentioned in this tutorial and even copies of Lenovo's official updates since their servers go down more than Kim Kardashian.
Go to http//davidstancu.me/TPT
I'm also working on a small Android app to replace these files to the factory files (kind of like the way Windows has sfc /checknow or whatever that command is. I would also like to extend a massive thank you to everybody who made the tools that I used to get this done.
Since my account doesn't have 10 posts yet I can't post a link, so you'll have to manually include the colon. Sorry

What is your tablet version? US? ROW?
I am looking for 16 US version.

i have inadvertantly deleted my original ics files when upgrading to Koshu's JB. I need to restore the stock ics so would like to use your cwm restore files.I've downloaded the files but the md5 check doesn't work.I assume it's only because i need the actual name of the folder these files are saved in the cwm backup folder. can you please either post it or email it?

smiley1960 said:
i have inadvertantly deleted my original ics files when upgrading to Koshu's JB. I need to restore the stock ics so would like to use your cwm restore files.I've downloaded the files but the md5 check doesn't work.I assume it's only because i need the actual name of the folder these files are saved in the cwm backup folder. can you please either post it or email it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
'
don't worry. I just created a new blank nandroid.md5 file and it took.Unfortunately, my TPT would not boot up. It just stuck at the Lenovo logo. Any suggestions to get it working?

My guess is that a file was corrupted. Try redownloading?

Thank you so much for the detailed guide and the files! My TPT came with a strangely named bladenct...0037_0001 (US) firmware so I couldn't have updated to ICS otherwise.
In other words, confirmed working for a US 16GB TPT. :good:

BrazenRain said:
Thank you so much for the detailed guide and the files! My TPT came with a strangely named bladenct...0037_0001 (US) firmware so I couldn't have updated to ICS otherwise.
In other words, confirmed working for a US 16GB TPT. :good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Based on that version number I'm curious... is that a TPT from Tigerdirect? Is the model number 1839AJ6 or 1839AD7?

US vs ROW
da_reeseboy said:
My guess is that a file was corrupted. Try redownloading?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Damn.I justchecked the build.prop and the ICS nandroid backup is for a US version. I've got a ROW version.
Anyone out there got an ICS nandroid ROW backup I can use? I'd really appreciate the help.

smiley1960 said:
Damn.I justchecked the build.prop and the ICS nandroid backup is for a US version. I've got a ROW version.
Anyone out there got an ICS nandroid ROW backup I can use? I'd really appreciate the help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe this can help you - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=37330646#post37330646

da_reeseboy said:
Based on that version number I'm curious... is that a TPT from Tigerdirect? Is the model number 1839AJ6 or 1839AD7?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bought it second-hand (and it seems to have had quite a rough life as is cut out for a ThinkPad), but it's an 1839AD7.

BrazenRain said:
I bought it second-hand (and it seems to have had quite a rough life as is cut out for a ThinkPad), but it's an 1839AD7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the reply. I am trying to help another member get his up to ICS, and he has the same weird software version. Did you restore the nandroid or follow the mini guide?

I used the mini guide. Unlike the original poster, I found nothing broken in the stock software. The rear camera has some serious magenta artifacts on the side but that remained in ICS and CM10 so I'm guessing that's hardware damage. (This tablet seems to have been through a lot. Thus I got it at a reasonable price from ebay.)

Awesome! Thanks again for replying.

[Q] Bluetooth issues/no Bluetooth..

My gear live was rooted had twrp on it and i was trying to update it to the newest android wear os i couldn't update it with twrp on it and i tried adb sideload with no luck restarted it restarted my phone no luck so i tried the stock recovery no luck with adb sideload i factory reset my watch everything was fine it downloaded an update which was KNX01Q so i reset the device again and it did the download again but this time it failed in recovery so i flashed the stock img from the gear live restore tool v3 now my watch is on KGW42N and i can't get it to connect to my phone it doesn't show up at all in android wear the weirdest part i used to have an option to search for Bluetooth devices in the watch settings but now there's no option and since i can't connect it to my phone i can't even connect it to my pc says adb device unauthorized.. i can get into recovery the bootloader of the watch it even starts up but it stays at the screen saying to install android wear on your phone but i can't recognize the watch it's like the Bluetooth is off or not working on the watch? Anyone have any ideas or workarounds for an unauthorized adb device?? Any help would be appreciated.

I'm having the same issue. I tried to go back to 100% stock so I could download the newest update, but now my phone doesn't recognize the watch via Bluetooth at all..
Edit: Fixed it, fastboot flashed the stock KMV78Y located here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/gear-live/development/rom-octamodwear-stock-root-busybox-t2834620
For people using the Samsung Gear Live Restore Tool, if that stock image worked for you, I would recommend replacing your 42Nboot.img and 42Nsystem.img with the ones in the above for future endeavors.
Also, that zip file needs a lot more attention in these forums.

YES!!!!
bkid001 said:
i'm having the same issue. I tried to go back to 100% stock so i could download the newest update, but now my phone doesn't recognize the watch via bluetooth at all..
Edit: Fixed it, fastboot flashed the stock kmv78y located here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/gear-live/development/rom-octamodwear-stock-root-busybox-t2834620
for people using the samsung gear live restore tool, if that stock image worked for you, i would recommend replacing your 42nboot.img and 42nsystem.img with the ones in the above for future endeavors.
Also, that zip file needs a lot more attention in these forums.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thank you so much you are the best!!

Bkid001 said:
I'm having the same issue. I tried to go back to 100% stock so I could download the newest update, but now my phone doesn't recognize the watch via Bluetooth at all..
Edit: Fixed it, fastboot flashed the stock KMV78Y located here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/gear-live/development/rom-octamodwear-stock-root-busybox-t2834620
For people using the Samsung Gear Live Restore Tool, if that stock image worked for you, I would recommend replacing your 42Nboot.img and 42Nsystem.img with the ones in the above for future endeavors.
Also, that zip file needs a lot more attention in these forums.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DUDE!! You totally fixed all the problems I was having with my gear live. I am a late adopter and had so much trouble with it. After flashing that firmware, the watch upgraded to 6.0.1. All my syncing issues, updating issues, every issue I had fixed. Thanks soo much. This is my second one. Had to return the other. Just another thanks. You the man.

No problem guys! I didn't even remember this post, and the only way I knew about it was an email I got because I was quoted

Bkid001 said:
No problem guys! I didn't even remember this post, and the only way I knew about it was an email I got because I was quoted
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You still the man!! May not seem like a lot for some people but I just wanted a cheap fitness/smartwatch tracker. This was the thing to get. Got it off Amazon and first one was sh!t. Wouldn't sync, update, or anything. Second one was dead. Tried your method on the first one and it revived it! Now it's the smart watch I had imagined it to be. Cheap, good specs, and a fitness tracker. Can't thank you enough.

quantump8 said:
DUDE!! You totally fixed all the problems I was having with my gear live. I am a late adopter and had so much trouble with it. After flashing that firmware, the watch upgraded to 6.0.1. All my syncing issues, updating issues, every issue I had fixed. Thanks soo much. This is my second one. Had to return the other. Just another thanks. You the man.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When you say flashed, do you mean that you took the files fro the stock rom he listed in his post, and replaced the "78Y" files with the ones from the post?

Deathscreton said:
When you say flashed, do you mean that you took the files fro the stock rom he listed in his post, and replaced the "78Y" files with the ones from the post?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I took the boot.img and system.img from the "78Y" file and replaced the boot.img and system.img from the Samsung Gear Live Restore tool files. But you have to make sure you rename them "42Nboot.img and 42Nsystem.img" before the tool will recognize them. Hope this helps.

quantump8 said:
I took the boot.img and system.img from the "78Y" file and replaced the boot.img and system.img from the Samsung Gear Live Restore tool files. But you have to make sure you rename them "42Nboot.img and 42Nsystem.img" before the tool will recognize them. Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure I understand. Maybe I confused myself, so let me ask again. xD
I have the original Samsung Gear Live Restore Tool v2 folder on my desktop. Inside, I have the 78Y files, (boot, recovery and system in that order) that are located in that folder. These are the files that need to be replaced by the originals linked above (kmv78y)that solved the issues, correct? I don't have any "42Nboot.img" or "42Nsystem.img" files. Just the ones I listed.
When I downloaded the link to the original stock ROM from the post above, all that was there was a system and boot img, which I assume is what needs to be renamed "42xxxx.img" according to your post, do I correct? And even if that is correct, the Samsung Restore Tool is scripted to look for the 78Y files, not any type of 42N files.

Deathscreton said:
I'm not sure I understand. Maybe I confused myself, so let me ask again. xD
I have the original Samsung Gear Live Restore Tool v2 folder on my desktop. Inside, I have the 78Y files, (boot, recovery and system in that order) that are located in that folder. These are the files that need to be replaced by the originals linked above (kmv78y)that solved the issues, correct? I don't have any "42Nboot.img" or "42Nsystem.img" files. Just the ones I listed.
When I downloaded the link to the original stock ROM from the post above, all that was there was a system and boot img, which I assume is what needs to be renamed "42xxxx.img" according to your post, do I correct? And even if that is correct, the Samsung Restore Tool is scripted to look for the 78Y files, not any type of 42N files.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whatever the files names are, just replace them with the ones from 78Y file. For me, the files from the original tool had "42N" before the system.img name and the tool wouldnt work until I changed the file names. If they are just system.img and boot.img, then just replace without renaming. But all img files must be the same name. Like I said, at least for me, this was the way it worked.

quantump8 said:
Whatever the files names are, just replace them with the ones from 78Y file. For me, the files from the original tool had "42N" before the system.img name and the tool wouldnt work until I changed the file names. If they are just system.img and boot.img, then just replace without renaming. But all img files must be the same name. Like I said, at least for me, this was the way it worked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I ended up trying this and I still have a few problems regarding Contacts (Try again on your phone) and Play Music (Your phone is not nearby...). Maybe app specific issues. I appreciate the help though. :c

Soft Bricked XT1097

Hey everybody,
I was on CM14.1, no issues, but decided to flash back to 6 and made the stupid mistake of trying to go straight with the standard motorola image. Now I am able to load the bootloader mode but cant do much after that. None of the partitions work, nor I can get data from bootloader info (tried retreieving flashing info to no avail). I am trying to find something I can use. Anyone has a suggestion?

Would you mind detailing which steps you took to flash? I think I know what your problem is, but I want to be sure first.

zstricky said:
Would you mind detailing which steps you took to flash? I think I know what your problem is, but I want to be sure first.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure!
- Got unlocked bootloader and installed cm14.1
- Decided to revert back to stock so downloaded 6.0 system image.
- instead of deleting the got.bin line from flashfile.xml I went to rsd and tried flashing it. It errored out and this took me where I am.

There is a flashable stock rom zip, but assuming you want to just use the official image that you already have you'll need to flash with fastboot. I saw that you posted on the thread 'return to stock etc'. Follow those fastboot steps, but be aware that there is a major omission: the instructions only go to system.img_sparsechunk.8, but there are 9 of those files and the phone will not boot if you only flash 8. As you go through fastboot flashing I think there will be a couple files that will give errors. Do an internet search on the error output line, but if I remember correctly the files that won't flash are no big deal and didn't affect my phone when I went ahead and ignored the errors.

I did man... The problem is... Something trully god messed up here. I am now getting hard stops related to aboot failures. I saw something similar on the xt1033 forums but we miss those same files.

Mototrola droid turbo (VZW) XT1254

I had aokp installed through twrp and now im giving the phone to a friend whos not tech savvy so i wanted to put it back to stock yet every file i get for the stock rom fails to flash properly through twrp. Any help? Maybe im making a small mistake somewhere along the lines so if someone could either link me to the correct forum post for it or link me the correct file? ive tried about 7 different files and none of them have worked and they were all from XDA forums

KingHephaestus said:
I had aokp installed through twrp and now im giving the phone to a friend whos not tech savvy.
so i wanted to put it back to stock yet every file i get for the stock rom fails to flash properly through twrp.
Any help? Maybe im making a small mistake somewhere along the lines so if someone could either link me to the correct forum post for it or link me the correct file? ive tried about 7 different files and none of them have worked and they were all from XDA forums
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You probably want to keep TWRP custom recovery. So you want to flash a TWRP-flashable stock firmware file. It's called a ROM, but it's really just stock firmware in a TWRP-flashable format.
You want to keep TWRP recovery, even if your friend is not tech savvy. It doesn't hurt in any way and can always help. For one, you can make a TWRP backup of the phone, before giving it to him and you or he could always "restore" that factory fresh image in case he ever screws it up.
THIS is what you are looking for. Download, flash in TWRP after doing a factory reset in TWRP.
[ROM] MCG24.251-5-5 100% Stock
https://forum.xda-developers.com/droid-turbo/general/rom-mcg24-251-5-5-100-stock-t3565795

[HELP] Seeking "laf" and "modem" partitions for Android 10

While trying to make some modifications using QFIL, I erased the "laf" and "modem" partitions (both a and b) of my V40. Now I can't get into the download mode to reflash the phone using LGUP. The phone is using the Open Korean Android 10 firmware but any Android 10 version laf and modem partitions (a and b) will help me get into the download mode. I just need to flash those four partitions with Android 10 version.
If anyone could provide me the backup of those partitions, that will be a life saver for my LG V40. Many thanks!

Royaltiger said:
While trying to make some modifications using QFIL, I erased the "laf" and "modem" partitions (both a and b) of my V40. Now I can't get into the download mode to reflash the phone using LGUP. The phone is using the Open Korean Android 10 firmware but any Android 10 version laf and modem partitions (a and b) will help me get into the download mode. I just need to flash those four partitions with Android 10 version.
If anyone could provide me the backup of those partitions, that will be a life saver for my LG V40. Many thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmmm, no, I don't think so. For downlaod mode to work, there are a number or partitions that have to match, not just be 'Andoroid 10'. They should be the same variant and the same version (30a, 30b etc etc).
You can easily get these partitions yourself from the kdz. Follow this link for one of the many links for how to do this.
Another thing to keep in mind, the modem partition is a critical one, in that it carries your imei. Using a modem partition from someone else would be introducing their imei into your device. I don't know what would happen, it might just get overwritten with your imei, then again it might mess up your device because of the conflict.
The kdz extractor has been around for quite a few years, it would absolutely be a good idea to learn how to use it, for many reasons.
cheers

I am absolutely sure it is the ”laf” partitions since that were the partitions (a and b) that were erased by me affecting the download mode. As for extracting the partitions from the firmware, I have already tried that using KDZ extractor but it is of no help. I have tried even first extracting the DZ file and then extracting the “laf” partitions but the files have 0 bytes. Hence, useless.
As for IMEI, I only use the phone for WiFi to function as music player.
Can you extract the partitions from the OP_KR Android 10 firmware? I certainly am unable to.
Thanks much!

Royaltiger said:
I am absolutely sure it is the ”laf” partitions since that were the partitions (a and b) that were erased by me affecting the download mode. As for extracting the partitions from the firmware, I have already tried that using KDZ extractor but it is of no help. I have tried even first extracting the DZ file and then extracting the “laf” partitions but the files have 0 bytes. Hence, useless.
As for IMEI, I only use the phone for WiFi to function as music player.
Can you extract the partitions from the OP_KR Android 10 firmware? I certainly am unable to.
Thanks much!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
follow this link for laf and abl for kor 30d. Good luck.

Thank you so much. Everything is back to normal.

Just wondering if you could also provide me the "boot_a" and "boot_b" partition images since I am unable to extract them from the firmware Android 10 OP_KR.
Thank you so much.

Royaltiger said:
Just wondering if you could also provide me the "boot_a" and "boot_b" partition images since I am unable to extract them from the firmware Android 10 OP_KR.
Thank you so much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Follow this link to boot + twrp (already injected) in Kor Open 30f (that's the only version I seem to have). Boot a and b are identical, so it can be used for either.
I'd suggest though you post what issues you're having getting the extract utility to work, and try to fix those. It would make things much easier for you to be able to get any partition from any version any time you wanted.
the utility does work.
cheers

<from private email, pls don't do that as many can benefit from the answers>
<quote>
Hey,
Thanks for helping me with the “laf” partition for my LG V40 Sprint (flashed to Korean OP_KR). Just wondering if you know how to access the fastboot mode in this phone? ADB does not help as it simply boots the phone back normally.
According to XDA senior member “FreeSoftwareServers” post, you have to wipe the “laf” partition to access the fastboot. Well, I have erased the “laf” partitions using QFIL and that did not give me fastboot mode either.
I need to have it to root the device as well as disable AVB. Any thoughts?
Thanks!
<end quote>
Accessing fastboot happens 2 ways, but they are not 'equal' versions of fastboot.
1) you can get a 'watered down' version of fastboot by nuking the laf partition, and then accessing fastboot by going to download mode (not by going to fastboot normally). It's considered 'watered down' because the implementation of it differs from rom to rom, the worst implementation is the Kor version (it won't allow you to boot anything, it won't unlock the bootloader, it won't even switch slots). No version, by any of the roms, will allow unlocking the bootloader.
2) by flashing the v35 eng abl to one of the abl slots. This gives you the full version of fastboot, can unlock bootloader, switch slots, etc. But because it's version is Oreo, it can't boot anything that isn't Oreo based. What most people do is flash this to their unused abl slot, then use twrp to switch slots, and reboot to that unused slot, you'll automatically go to fastboot, do what u need to do, then use fastboot to switch to the other slot, fastboot reboot, and yer all set.
cheers

Your advice to keep the informative discussion public is well understood.
Now I have tried both ways to access the fastboot, as suggested by you. And neither of them work on the Korean firmwares. But what works is you erase the ”boot_a” partition using QFIL. Of course, you must backup the partition before erasing since it will be needed again.
With the wiped “boot_a“ partition, phone boots you right into Fastboot. After doing the fastboot needed changes, you can flash the earlier saved boot_a back to the partition using QFIL. Works like a charm every time (at least with Korean firmwares).

Royaltiger said:
Your advice to keep the informative discussion public is well understood.
Now I have tried both ways to access the fastboot, as suggested by you. And neither of them work on the Korean firmwares. But what works is you erase the ”boot_a” partition using QFIL. Of course, you must backup the partition before erasing since it will be needed again.
With the wiped “boot_a“ partition, phone boots you right into Fastboot. After doing the fastboot needed changes, you can flash the earlier saved boot_a back to the partition using QFIL. Works like a charm every time (at least with Korean firmwares).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if neither of them work for you, then you're doing something wrong. Guaranteed. They've worked for hundreds of others, thousands.
keep in mind, if you erase laf, then you have to use the same keys you would normally use to get to lat (download mode) to get (now) to fastboot (as I said before).
that means with phone off, hold vol up, plug in with usb to pc. Of course be sure the laf you nuked is the slot you are currently on.
And if you tried the v35 eng abl on the inactive slot, switched slots, and then rebooted, and it's not working for you... well, I wonder how all those people got their devices unlocked? because that's how you do it.
sorry but, pebkac. There's no doubt they work.

AsItLies said:
I'd suggest though you post what issues you're having getting the extract utility to work, and try to fix those. It would make things much easier for you to be able to get any partition from any version any time you wanted.
the utility does work.
cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At your advice, I again tried to extract the partition files from a KDZ file (OP_KR Android 10) and the results are the same i.e., the extracted partition files are 0 kb in size. I am following the procedure down to T. The DZ file gets extracted from KDZ without any problem. But when I try to pull the partition files using the extractor tool, the resulting files are useless as they are 0 kb in size.
I am attaching the screen shot for your analysis.
It will be of immense help if I could be able to extract the partition files myself successfully.

Royaltiger said:
At your advice, I again tried to extract the partition files from a KDZ file (OP_KR Android 10) and the results are the same i.e., the extracted partition files are 0 kb in size. I am following the procedure down to T. The DZ file gets extracted from KDZ without any problem. But when I try to pull the partition files using the extractor tool, the resulting files are useless as they are 0 kb in size.
I am attaching the screen shot for your analysis.
It will be of immense help if I could be able to extract the partition files myself successfully.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never used the gui version of the extractor, only the cli version under linux, so can't help there. I'd suggest searching for an xda thread discussing the gui.
cheers

AsItLies said:
I've never used the gui version of the extractor, only the cli version under linux, so can't help there. I'd suggest searching for an xda thread discussing the gui.
cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now I totally understand your success because I have read at Howtek that the Windows version of extractor does not work on newer KDZ firmwares. Nevertheless I am very grateful to your earlier extracted files.
Just once more: May I trouble you to let me have the extracted partitions (laf, abl and boot) from the Korean firmware for LG V50 (Android 10): V500NO20y_00_OPEN_KR_OP_0115.KDZ. I need these files for a project that I am undertaking on LG V50. That way I will covered in case something goes South.
Thank you so much for your help.

Royaltiger said:
Now I totally understand your success because I have read at Howtek that the Windows version of extractor does not work on newer KDZ firmwares. Nevertheless I am very grateful to your earlier extracted files.
Just once more: May I trouble you to let me have the extracted partitions (laf, abl and boot) from the Korean firmware for LG V50 (Android 10): V500NO20y_00_OPEN_KR_OP_0115.KDZ. I need these files for a project that I am undertaking on LG V50. That way I will covered in case something goes South.
Thank you so much for your help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is something you can figure out for yourself. There's a great deal of documentation and guides available. I managed to follow them and made the cli version work about a year or so ago. I've had hd crashes and laptop replacements since then. I'm not even sure the HD I had with that on it is still in my possession.
MODERATOR EDIT: CERTAIN CONTENTS OF THIS POST WERE REMOVED TO MAKE IT IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE FORUM RULES

Hey guys,
I have removed some posts from this thread which I felt were getting out of line from the way of a civilized discussion. Follow the FORUM RULES. Rules that were broken:
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