Related
EDIT: I changed my mind, if someone provides me a working iphone ROM for the touch pro 2, I'll give you $1000. If you want details of what I want, I'll give them but it would require the ability to sync with itunes, all sprint cdma radios to work, wifi, bluetooth, 3g, usb, internet tethering, text messaging, basically, a 99% working ROM. I know the money isn't much but that's about how much an iphone would be worth to me.
please pass this on to your favorite developer/programmer
It seems like there are many different ROM's, or OS's that can be modified to run on these tiny little computers. So why not the apple iphone OS? Seems like hardware wise we would be in heaven with such a great keyboard to the most popular and succesful phone ever. Have any of the talented programmers here attempted it? i would easily pay $50 ore even more for it, as I'm sure many, many other people would. i am certain that there is a programmer out there with access to the iphone source code and can write in the drivers for the hardware. i realize it would be illegal and copyright infrigement but the person that could do it would be infamous and be offered a sweet, cushy programming job at a huge corporation. which of you programmers are currently in a job they don't like or even unemployed? this would be your opportunity to cross the invisible barrier and make double, triple, or even 100X your current salary. think about it.
PS-other than the amazing talents that you would be displaying by doing this, even if you don't become famous, I'm still going to show you how to make money off this. Immediately before releasing the program to the public, get as much money as you can to buy, borrow, cheat, steal, or using whatever means necessary and get every single touch pro 2 phone you can find. i literally mean, 10000+ of them if possible. As soon as the program is released, the word will get out, and within weeks the cost of getting a touch pro 2 on the black market will be upwards of $600-$800, maybe even more. an iphone with a keyboard...
ChristopherJLee said:
please pass this on to your favorite developer/programmer
It seems like there are many different ROM's, or OS's that can be modified to run on these tiny little computers. So why not the apple iphone OS? Seems like hardware wise we would be in heaven with such a great keyboard to the most popular and succesful phone ever. Have any of the talented programmers here attempted it? i would easily pay $50 ore even more for it, as I'm sure many, many other people would. i am certain that there is a programmer out there with access to the iphone source code and can write in the drivers for the hardware. i realize it would be illegal and copyright infrigement but the person that could do it would be infamous and be offered a sweet, cushy programming job at a huge corporation. which of you programmers are currently in a job they don't like or even unemployed? this would be your opportunity to cross the invisible barrier and make double, triple, or even 100X your current salary. think about it.
PS-other than the amazing talents that you would be displaying by doing this, even if you don't become famous, I'm still going to show you how to make money off this. Immediately before releasing the program to the public, get as much money as you can to buy, borrow, cheat, steal, or using whatever means necessary and get every single touch pro 2 phone you can find. i literally mean, 10000+ of them if possible. As soon as the program is released, the word will get out, and within weeks the cost of getting a touch pro 2 on the black market will be upwards of $600-$800, maybe even more. an iphone with a keyboard...
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Click to collapse
There are sooooo many reasons this can't and won't happen. Where shall I start? The vastly different screen resolution? The completely different hardware which has absolutely no support? The bootloader? Or maybe the fact it's closed source, and thus can't easily (if at all) be modified to the point where it runs on our devices? (There probably isn't even a HAL, or only a minimal one at best). Maybe the fact that there would be lawsuits up the a** from Apple if this ever happened, not 6-digit salaries and job opportunities. I personally would rather see developers devoting time to creating a fully, working port of Linux than a half-a**ed iPhone OS port which doesn't boot into a GUI or even a console (if it boots at all), and doesn't even support basic elements of iPhone OS like multi-touch and synchronization. This idea has been suggested over the years quite a few times, and it's never gotten anywhere because there are so many things working against it.
I'm not necessarily against such a thing (if it were to be fully completed) but all I'm saying is that there is already a huge shortage of talented developers who can port operating systems, and we don't need to be wasting their talents and efforts on a wild goose chase of a port, such as this proposed project. Even if the port is completely finished, there are fundamental problems such as lack of multi-touch, OS updates having to be adapted each release, the issue of all apps being the wrong resolution while no scaling mechanism is built into the OS (unlike android), and many other reasons I could literally go on listing all day. Besides, your whole scenario of a port is flawed itself. I think I can safely say that nobody on this forum has access to the iPhone's full source. I think I can also safely say that the price of a black-market TP2 probably wouldn't go up that much if at all, since you can still buy them from HTC or any other retailer (often for dirt cheap with a commitment), and any black market TP2 would have to be cheap enough to be somewhat competitive. Your scenario also relies on the assumption that Apple won't throw their entire legal team at this forum and the developers responsible. Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is at best a pipe-dream, and simply won't happen for a myriad of reasons. If you want the iPhone OS, buy an iPhone or get the SDK and use the emulator included, or if you want the look of the iPhone on your TP2, look at iPhone today and S2U2.
just wondering are there any iphone users who want winmo on their device
DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
I'm not necessarily against such a thing (if it were to be fully completed) but all I'm saying is that there is already a huge shortage of talented developers who can port operating systems, and we don't need to be wasting their talents and efforts on a wild goose chase of a port, such as this proposed project.
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I disagree, the shortage is not from lack of talented developers who can port operating systems, it's that some of the talented developers don't have the motivation to do it. i'm hoping that my post will spur some of the ones dreaming about truly making it big
DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
Even if the port is completely finished, there are fundamental problems such as lack of multi-touch, OS updates having to be adapted each release, the issue of all apps being the wrong resolution while no scaling mechanism is built into the OS (unlike android), and many other reasons I could literally go on listing all day.
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I agree there would be issues but like all software, it can be modified. for example, up-scaling could run as a default for the entire system as there would be no need to have the iphone running 800 x 480, it could be the default iphone resolution
DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
Besides, your whole scenario of a port is flawed itself. I think I can safely say that nobody on this forum has access to the iPhone's full source. I think I can also safely say that the price of a black-market TP2 probably wouldn't go up that much if at all, since you can still buy them from HTC or any other retailer (often for dirt cheap with a commitment), and any black market TP2 would have to be cheap enough to be somewhat competitive.
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You're probably right, no one on this forum has access but someone's friend of a friend that works at apple or is a consultant does. Yes, you can buy touch pro 2's on the internet but there's a limited supply. in april of 2009 it was reported 37 million iphones/ipod touches have been sold. this is over a 3 year period. in a 2 day period 270,000 iphones were sold. are there even 270,000 touch pro 2 users? how many of us have the money and the means to end our contract and pay for an iphone? how many of us simply don't do it because of the cost and/or cons of using att or a phone with no keyboard? there aren't enough touch pro 2's in existance
DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
Your scenario also relies on the assumption that Apple won't throw their entire legal team at this forum and the developers responsible. Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is at best a pipe-dream, and simply won't happen for a myriad of reasons. If you want the iPhone OS, buy an iPhone or get the SDK and use the emulator included, or if you want the look of the iPhone on your TP2, look at iPhone today and S2U2.
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I agree that Apple would do all of this, worldwide fame and recognition of your talents. Surely someone would face the consequences than stay nameless in a basement somewhere for the rest of their life. Someone is reading this that can and will do it because it is achievable.
aZzz.bZzz said:
just wondering are there any iphone users who want winmo on their device
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yes please...........oh sorry i was only joking
apple don't like it.......
when people clone or try to copy there OS
they have and will come down on us like a ton of bricks
this is a reason why people don't try it.
I thought the interwebs is soo vast far and wide.
But I just cant seem to hide from these Iphone crap...
Dumb idea...
As a developer, there is no way in h*ll I would try this. First off, Apple would rain fire and brimstone down on top of you. Apple is one of the most controlling and paranoid companies on the planet. XDA would get shutdown almost immediately just for being associated with it.
Besides, I like not being a sheep. So why would I want to imitate one? Let the sheeple be happy with their device. I'll be happy with mine.
i'll happily be a sheeple
data that's relevant to you individually? why aren't any other phones doing this exact thing as well? it's been 3 years since the iphone came out, surely someone outside of apple realizes the benefits of the iphone and should be building it into wm6 or 7, and android. a phone that actually uses your current location to suggest food and things that you can enjoy that you would otherwise miss the opportunity or waste your time looking for? the games, the programs, the applications, are all built well and perform well because of the os that is used. the iphone os, interface, all of it, is genius. there are things to improve, but let someone crack it and then the rest of us will come up with improvements
I'll port this over if you can get me the iPhone OS source code. I'm thinking you'll run into trouble though, because it's not publicly available
Please read up on development before making such an outlandish request
this thread is done
as if we let it happen here we will be contacted by apple
and they don't like it when people play with there toys.
thread closed
Hi all. I've decided to try and make some future Microsoft product "my idea", so I've submitted the following letter to them via billg [at] microsoft [dit] com. I just wanted to know if you guys had any input.
Flaming is sure to happen, and while I won't argue with you, I will probably wish your firstborn child is used as a shot put.
Dear Microsoft,
Lately I’ve been bombarded with commercial after commercial showing random people (and their self perceptions) stating that Windows 7 was their idea for one reason or another. I’m not completely disgusted by these or anything, but it started my mind on one of those winding roads a character in a story might have to take to get home, or to the girl, or to the climax, or… well I guess that is kind of repetitious – but the point is, I started thinking about the variety of Microsoft’s operating systems and the history they’ve had – rather, our history together.
I’ve used just about everything Microsoft has created… I started my computer “education” by soldering a few broken parts back together on a Commodore 64 I found in a dump, and then learning BASIC on it (the BASIC on the Commodore 64 was a variant created and licensed by Microsoft). Right now, I’m typing this in Microsoft Word, on a laptop that has Microsoft Windows Vista, being distracted by a cellular phone that runs Microsoft Windows Phone 6.5.
That was a mouthful when I read it aloud.
But the reason for this letter is not so much a history lesson, but a worry of what is to come. It seems the goal over there the past few years is some cross between being different and being more like Macintosh, or Google, or insert company name here, and I’m here to state that I don’t like the transformation the publicists and tech news sites are ranting and raving about.
A few examples?
- Most recently must be the attempt to remove the clipboard features from my phone. I say “attempt”, because I am willing to bet that will be brought back, either by you or some developers out there.
- Office 2007’s menu structure looks like someone tried to “make it better” and ruined it.
- Windows Vista and Windows 7 both look like some kind of cross-dressing Microsoft product who was “supposed to be a Mac”.
What happens when you become so close to the competition that nobody can tell you apart? Developers and IT teams may not like parts of Windows, but they are able adjust most of what they don’t like to work for them. If this path continues, and all of the contenders out there do the exact same thing, you’re really shooting yourselves in the collective foot by taking away your uniqueness.
I guess what I’m really trying to say is “different” does not equal “better”. Get back to your roots and make something that your current audience will buy. Put them above the “new customers” you’re trying to reach. It’s the same error that many companies make nowadays – neglecting the long time customers for some new ones. You end up losing great customers that way.
See, I am a man. There’s an expression stating that men marry women expecting them to be the same, and women marry men expecting that they’ll change. I feel like Microsoft is giving in to the women out there – the ones who complain about it being too hard to use or not pretty enough – and we have enough of that already. I’m not trying to hate on women out there, but maybe the movie Team America explained it best… something about assholes, dicks, and ******* (I won’t go into it, but watch the movie if you need an explanation). What we need is for Microsoft to be a **** again.
Good luck and happy creating,
(Name Removed)
P.S. This email was sent using Microsoft Outlook.
Thanks in advance for any feedback,
Drunk
oooh nice
so did they reply back and what did the email say?
anyway nice letter
no replies yet, but I just sent it last night.
Mad props for Team America reference =P
the whole my idea is just a commercial not a real deal imho
http://gizmodo.com/5477384/windows-7-was-my-idea-but-to-be-fair-i-dont-know-what-im-talking-about
I don't doubt that it is just a big marketing gimick, but I wanted to explain that it looks like they are listening to people's ideas - just the wrong ones.
I'm waiting for them to show the ads on TV which make the claim that W7 has fewer clicks so I can report it to the ASA.
Starting a program like solitaire with the mouse is either the same number (if you don't mind a 2 second wait) or one more click than XP/Vista.
As for getting to the network card properties that's a heck of a lot more clicks than Vista or XP.
W7 has some very well thought out features, but unfortunately it's got more that just aren't.
I hate MS for putting me in a position where I have to say I prefer Vista! Damn them! Damn them to Hades!
WM7 looks awful, and the restrictions they're putting on it make no user or business sense.
Office 2007 is appauling, what were they thinking? Why make an application which users have to refer to google in order to complete simple common tasks?
Don't expect a reply, Drunk, at least something that isn't just generically polite and thanking you for your thoughtful input.
You blended good points that resonate with much of their shrinking user base, made up partly by people who have no idea they're running Microsoft and also in part by people who are obsessed with modifying them, with that bit on genitals. They're not interested in us anymore, nor would they want to add a lot of attention to your letter by giving you something from them to paste on and spread around. They want to intercept people from buying the other phones with no regard to who's already buying their own phones, and you can't really blame them considering how fast they're still falling (down 4% last quarter) toward obscurity.
Just to offer myself as an example of others reading what you just posted and what may be on their own minds, considering I made two websites about the damn thing, I'd say I was a bonafide WinMo fanatic, one of the last expected to say adios, but I just did, a Nexus One, and not only will I continue to love and go nuts with it I will attempt to take others with me. It's brewing right here on XDA, the place you'd think would be the haven mainly for people who like to do what can mostly only be done exclusively with WinMo phones.
Actually I read this by mistake, forgot to get rid of all my WinMo rss feeds on Google Reader to which my phone's synced. Good read though, glad you posted it. So thanks.
But no matter how much rabble you rouse here nor what signs you wave in front of their Seattle office you won't stop this train, the general direction of which they've made it clear that they are taking with WP7 being mostly the opposite of what a lot of us want. They can't please everyone and they'd rather please would-otherwise-be customers of their competitors even at the expense of estranging themselves from part of their existing customers. On the bright side, in addition to there being other options (specifically the one I took), they claim they'll keep supporting existing versions of WinMo for at least a while, though not forever on new devices I don't think which will have unique hardware that if I heard correctly won't even have removable storage, not to mention any support for decentralized application distribution. You don't like the sound of what's coming but what's coming is in their opinion good for business and I suppose mine too. When you're already failing at this rate in such a critical time of penetrating a huge market with enormous potential that will be realized further and further every day, it's hard to come up with a dumb idea on how to do things differently. Not to mention I've seen quite a few extremists shrug off each new bit of bad news saying Whatever I'll still try it, and once they do, then Microsoft has got them for at least a long enough period of time to figure out how to keep them hooked while they intercept little bits of business from the others. Right now they're handing business away. It's a joke.
Making sure the likes of you and others on sites like XDA remain happy customers as they implement these drastic changes to their mobile operations is not high up on their to do list.
Just sayin'.
Doug
Can't say I don't agree with you on most of that. I honestly don't expect much of a reply... at most a blanket letter or something like that. I've also been working my way to other vendors. I've got some android variant on my TP2 now and Ubuntu on my laptop (both still dual boots, but it's a step that direction). I just didn't want it all to happen without my 2 cents' worth being thrown at them.
Thanks for stopping by.
I hear you man, I'm all about ranting. This and this in particular. Also this.
Take a look at that and mobilitydigest.com (basically the same with a less weird domain), you'd make a great writer. Perfect style, perfect background (impressive by the way), perfect fire in your belly. We can't yet offer you money but what we can give you is an audience. Let me know.
"but I wanted to explain that it looks like they are listening to people's ideas - just the wrong ones."
yeah with the whole win phone 7 seeming like being a copy of the features of org iphone sure sounds like they are getting bad advice
I realise that this is very much a "how-long-is-a-piece-of-string" type question, but I'd really like to get some idea of the costs and time involved in developing an app for the Android market compared to the iPhone.
My understanding is that it doesn't cost developers to submit apps to the Android Marketplace (as opposed to the iPhone Developer’s Program which costs $99 a year). So there's a saving there.
But in terms of development costs, would you suggest that hiring a developer to create an Android app would be cheaper because the market's smaller? Would it make no difference at all? Would it be harder to find a developer to code for Android?
Basically, any thoughts anyone has on this would be really appreciated.
Cheers,
Why don't you try and find out? Ask some (android)developers what app x would cost and ask some (iphone)developers the same
for most applications it should be cheaper to hire an Android programmer because you develop in standard Java and this is the most widely used language in computer science education. Eclipse is also a standard development environment many young programmers are familiar with. Even I was able to code my first Android application in a matter of minutes.
Objective-C on the other side is a nieche language. Of course, every good progammer can learn that language in a couple of hours or at least days but there are definitly more experienced Java programmers out there and they can reuse code (snippets). Java code is so ubiqitous you can find for a lot of problems coded and tested solutions. So two reasons: there are much more Java programmers out there and they can develop faster. Specific Android experience is not needed as long as you don't want to program kernel extensions or things like that.
But I guess the Apple-market is still more profitable because Apple users are trained to spend money. So even as it may cost more to develop it also brings in more revenue. I hope the sheer amount of Android handsets out there will outweigh this advantage soon.
Humm .. i think this is a tricky question.
While it will definitely be cheaper to develop an application for android, the question you might want to ask (depending on what you want to do) is what is the ROI of an Android application versus and IOS application.
And even then, depending on the type of application & the demographic your app will be targeting (not to mention usability, design, general app quality) the response will likely vary quite a bit too.
But globally yeah, it's cheaper and less a hassle to make an android app i'd say. ..then again, i have an allergy to apples, and this is an android forum after all
robert_tlse said:
Humm .. i think this is a tricky question.
While it will definitely be cheaper to develop an application for android, the question you might want to ask (depending on what you want to do) is what is the ROI of an Android application versus and IOS application.
And even then, depending on the type of application & the demographic your app will be targeting (not to mention usability, design, general app quality) the response will likely vary quite a bit too.
But globally yeah, it's cheaper and less a hassle to make an android app i'd say. ..then again, i have an allergy to apples, and this is an android forum after all
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Hehe, I agree on that Robert.
ten chars!!!
You can also spend many months developing an iPhone app, only to have it rejected by Apple for no good reason. That's quite expensive.
It is, however, unescapable that there are a lot of iOS users who buy a lot of apps from the App Store, so the potential ROI is higher. There's also only a few platforms to develop for (although this is becoming increasingly less the case).
Would like for Android to have more focus though; it's getting there!
(The diminutive term "app" does irk me slightly - Apple have popularised it in relation to phones when they convinced everyone that the iPhone was the first phone to support third-party software. Guess it's stuck now though.)
then why are Android apps more expensive??
Android apps aren't more expensive. They have by far the largest proportion of free apps on any mobile platform and even those that do cost are comparatively cheap.
Android will probably be easier and cheaper to develop for..the only concern people have with Android is fragmentation...aka when developing you gotta decide which versions and up to develop for and choose the appropriate functions for the documentation. Of course in the end all the old devices will upgrade eventually and be compatible anyways..
My hope is though Apple lets 3rd party development tools back in...cause that way you can use Adobe AIR and make an App for both Android and iPhone at the same time....How I wish for cross platform app development...but Apple will fight it till the and cause if they don't they will loose one of their biggest advantages...
In my opinion Android is just now getting to the average joe especially in the United States. Older people are even trying the droid line of devices since there are so many to choose from now on all carriers (vs 1 iphone on AT&T forever just revised of course) So yeah, even people here in hicksville, MO USA are even trying it out go figure. If everyone hasn't heard of HTC or Android, they're definitely being introduced to it now through the Galaxy S series since it's on almost all carriers and has some snazzy media buzz.
With all these new cells and tablets coming out I give it a mere 2-3years and everyone will know our lil green droid dude globally, and use it on multiple devices around the house. Just my theory. I'm sure the Marketplace will grow 10/fold in that time, peace!
I guess there are a few things to keep in mind:
Politics:
1) Apple tries to regulate what is permitted to be installed on their phones. They don't provide any real guidelines, nor do they tell you in advance if your application will be accepted. You'll only discover after submitting your app that it isn't permitted. So they waste your time, and numerous high end projects have developed their application only to discover Apple blocks them because "they are duplicating functionality" *cough competing*. Yes, lots of money has been lost.
2) Apple is Non-Disclosure Agreement overload. Send an email to apple and it always says "this information is confidential". Basically, Apple's agreement is so bad (unless it's changed recently) that they can cancel the account/sue you any time they wish. That increases your risk further.
3) iPhone's can be jail-broken to install 3rd party apps, but many people wont. Even if the Google store wont accept your app, they can manually install it, or you can use another store... Without jailbreaking.
4) Many developers often complain of long delays getting their apps approved, and when removed from the store by Apple, they have to flood Apple with emails for reason's why. On android, you don't even need to use the App store, in fact, Android has the benefit of allowing paid apps to be sold in countries with export restrictions (because they can sell it via other means).
5) Piracy is possibly more rife on Android, however, Google are apparently implementing an API which allows apps to check if they were purchased for that phone, which should strongly reduce piracy once available (because it means that dodgy stores will need to actually crack the programs). Once this is implemented, hopefully it will stop the jackass spammers from selling pirated stuff.
Development Process:
1) iPhones use objective C, Android uses Dalvik. Dalvik is VERY similar to java, one simply needs to learn the differences. Objective C is also quite easy to learn though, but it probably takes more experience to do well (because c++ doesn't have the idea of selectors). If you try creating apps on the iPhones without using objective C originally though, your app might be removed. On android, frankly, Google doesn't give a damn provided, it works.
2) Big win for Android here, the Android SDK works on Linux,Windows AND OSX. It integrates with eclipse which already has a large user-base. Whereas, you need to buy a mac for code for the iPhone, and the SDK is OSX only.
3) That being said, you can make a cross-platform webapp that can be sold for both, but the user needs to be online.
4) Objective C is compiled code, whilst Java is bytecode. Bytecode can run as fast as compiled (with some initial overhead). Native sounds great, but if Apple ever does a processor change for their phones, it might be a world of hurt. If massively-multicore mobile processors are released, Android is probably better suited. That being said, by then, you'll probably need to fix some things in your app anyway because of API changes.
Actual sales:
1) Apparently in the past, you would have sold more in the Apple market. However, in the past, Android mobiles were actually quite rare because Android stunk. Froyo is probably the first Android OS that can compete against iOS effectively because it now supports JIT. There is also a much greater emphasis on Android these days in advertising, and I see more Android advertising than iPhone. Possibly inaccurate predictions suggest they will overtake the iPhone in 2012 too.
2) Sales figures don't represent profit though (so whilst iOS may generate more still, it's less than Apple claims). A google market account costs $25, whereas an Apple iPhone development account costs $99. Furthermore, you need Apple equipment to code for the Apple market (which can be significantly more expensive than PC's), and there is no estimates done to determine profits lost by being rejected from the Apple app store (there have been major projects which cost thousands to develop which have been rejected). So greater overheads on the Apple store, which means for cheap/quick apps, you are probably safer developing for Android (especially if you don't already own a mac).
My opinion:
For me, developing major apps is too high risk for iPhones. Although, if your app is approved, there are potentially bigger payoffs than Android. For small apps which don't have a predictable further, you may earn more on Android because of lower overheads. If you app is rejected for iPhone though for competing, you wasted weeks/months of your life, and need to use a 3rd party store (since only hacked phones can use them though, you dramatically decrease your sales instantly).
Anyway, my thoughts are that by the end of the year, everyone will know what Android is, and you may start to see manufacturers getting together to launch MAJOR campaigns to promote Android, especially since they now all have a common enemy (Apple basically took a cheapshot at other major manufacturers to justify their design flaw). Apple is only a small guy when it comes to manufacturing phones, and so it's as though they threw a few tiny pebbles at a team of football players to show off. Of course, some of those football players have already started retaliating, and it just depends on how annoyed they got.
Personally, I think iPhone would be great if they didn't do the "anti-competitive" thing they always do, but as it stands, I am now doing my Oracle/Sun SCJP, and hope to get into Android coding soon. If Apple starts acting less evil though, I will take another look in their direction, but they are mistreating the users they need the most, the developers. It's a pity, because Apple really has potential.
Source: I haven't sold any apps on either market yet, but I have mostly decided on developing for Android.
Developing new iPhone app looking for developer
I have a cool iPhone app idea it's a very simple game that I could like to create I am looking for a developer in the Los angeles area I am new here so please if your interested or can redirect me to the right person I would appreciate it thank you...email me with any info
Hey guys, I just had some quick questions for anyone here that may be in the I.T field..
Im 23 years old and ive decided to go back to school.. so currently im working on an Associates Degree in I.T and trying to get my certs out of the way (CCENT, CCNA and CompTIA A+) But im not going to stop here... computers are a HUGE interest of mine.. I plan to continue on for a bachelors degree in I.T and possibly even a masters after that..
Basically for anyone in the field, do you like what you do? Do you find it interesting? How is the starting pay rate? I live near a major U.S City (NYC) And dont mind commuting back and fourth into the city for work... I was HOPING to start out making 50+ a year with just my associates and certs.. is this being unreasonable?? Someone told me that I.T professionals only start at like 30 grand a year which seems pretty scary to me
My ultimate goal is to be a Database Administrator and run / manage a companys servers / network, however I dont expect that with an Associates, most likely a bachelors+ would be needed??
Basically if anyone has any info about the field that theyd like to share with me, im open ears becaue im extremely interested in this career and any insight would be appreciated.. thank you
I would love to give you some advice, but I mainly work in the S.H.I.T fields
Scent phrum mie fone!
I have a Bachelor of Engineering in IT. There's such a vast range of areas in IT, that there's always something different or exciting, depending on what you like.
But regarding salaries...doesn't matter what qualifications you have, it's experience that people want, so yes you'll start pretty low if its your first real job in IT, unless you get lucky.
I have done quite a bit of studying for the career because I want to get into it myself. But usually the minimum requirement is a bachelors degree in that field. The starting salary for where I live is 80k which is a lot more than 30k if you ask me haha It's a wide career of choice and you'll always be needed somewhere. Just make sure you keep learning.
the_scotsman said:
(snip)
But regarding salaries...doesn't matter what qualifications you have, it's experience that people want, so yes you'll start pretty low if its your first real job in IT, unless you get lucky.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
In my experience, it is better to know that most sysadmins don't document their fixes because IT support is very often undermanned. That's why my boss was very glad that I have some IT background (for some basic troubleshooting at least) and can take quite a load off my company's IT department (combination of cluelessness, lack of cutting edge knowledge AND turnaround time).
Another thing you might find frustrating is that users=stupid. Unless they are smart, then they try to be too smart and you'd get more interesting cases
Last but not least:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/odds/bofh/
As somebody who has been in IT for 13 years. (Holly Crap~!) I would suggest getting a job now. Doesn't matter where who why what and when you need experience. When I hire people I first look at their resume and look for progression. If they are just starting out that isn't as big of an issue. I then look at the descriptions of their jobs, I and most other Managers or Directors are fairly good at detecting BS at least in my experience. I then look at certifications, and this goes back to progression. If you got an A+, and a bunch of other certs in 2000, that isn't nearly as appealing as somebody who shows progression but doesn't have as many certs. Last I look at what if any degree's they have. In the interview I require people to take a simulated test, if it is a basic tech, then its a basic test. For a Network Admin they better be able to console into a switch and find and fix a vlan problem. I don't know how common this is in the industry but it blows me away how many people appear to have the skills required for a position and then fail to do the most basic of tasks for the job they are applying for. This is where experience is KEY! For the most part I don't value a degree, some do but I find that most of the skills required to be successful come from personality and experience.
Also there are TONS of different categories/specialties in IT, Most DBA's don't actually know much about infrastructure, etc.
And then beyond all that different industries have different demands for IT. For instance I worked in the dot com era eCommerce industry for a while, then in the construction (Architectural), and now in healthcare. If you have experience in a particular industry outside of IT I would suggest trying to get into IT in that industry.
I hope all of this helps.
PS For a specialization I recommend virtualization. I had to take my Resume down from careerbuilder because of all the people contacting me based on my VMware / HyperV Experience. I like my job now and don't plan on moving but there seems to be a high demand for that now.
job experience and certs and probably in that order. Degree's in IT are about as useful as coasters, job experience and core competency is what matters and you get almost none of that from a degree
Software developer here with a BENG in Computer Communications - Degree + experience = the big bucks but still depends what area you go into, currently looking at £30k + (UK) with a 2:1 and 3+ years experience for programming but it's only going up from here.
Love what I do gets stressful at times but you just need to find an area you enjoy and stick with it.
sakai4eva said:
+1
Another thing you might find frustrating is that users=stupid. Unless they are smart, then they try to be too smart and you'd get more interesting cases
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I'm a sysadmin. This comment is my bread and butter for advice
I'm a software developer in england. Primarily self taught and no real qualifications to speak of.
Experience trumps qualifications in my experience.
Hi, I'm coming to this forum to ask my question 1. Because I know there are a lot of tech-savvy people here and 2. Because I'm on these forums a lot.
I guess my general question is: what is the best IT field to get into now? I really like programming, but I read a couple or places that its projected to go down by 4% from now til 2018ish.
But I read elsewhere that computer engineering is growing rapidly.
I'm 19 years old now, about to start college soon and want to pick a good field in. Something that can defenitely pay good as well.
And I know there's a lot of cross knowledge about IT.
But what's the best IT field tp get into?
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Bump
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I am a Network Engineer. I think it is a pretty good field, if you don't mind the late nights, and other things. The Networks are the furthest behind right now, and we need competent Engineers to build and run them.
i agree with above..
I agree, however getting companies to spend money on talent and equipment is hard. Its like years ago before companies spent on backups. They wont spend till it bites them.
troubleshot said:
I agree, however getting companies to spend money on talent and equipment is hard. Its like years ago before companies spent on backups. They wont spend till it bites them.
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Correct. Working for a Vendor, I see this all the time. It is hard to tell a company that they need new switches every 5 years, especially in this economic time.
The big pusher will be IPv6. That is forcing a lot of companies to look at their infrastructure today. They have this feeling they will be left behind if they aren't IPv6 ready by the end of this year. At least on my view of things - that is the only reason Enterprise side businesses are buying new Routers/Switches.
Enraged21 said:
Hi, I'm coming to this forum to ask my question 1. Because I know there are a lot of tech-savvy people here and 2. Because I'm on these forums a lot.
I guess my general question is: what is the best IT field to get into now? I really like programming, but I read a couple or places that its projected to go down by 4% from now til 2018ish.
But I read elsewhere that computer engineering is growing rapidly.
I'm 19 years old now, about to start college soon and want to pick a good field in. Something that can defenitely pay good as well.
And I know there's a lot of cross knowledge about IT.
But what's the best IT field tp get into?
Sent from my PG06100 using XDA App
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The problem with Network Engineering is there is no degree for it. It is a lot of self knowledge and self learning.
Take your Juniper Certifications or Cisco Certifications. Buy books on BGP, OSPF, IS-IS, IPv6, etc.....
Download software to run labs at your house....build a cheap Cisco lab as well.
GNS3 is a good Cisco network simulator.
I know this isn't the advice you're looking for - but I'm going to give you the advice I wish somebody gave me when I was 18.
Screw the market predictions, screw the salary ceilings, screw the skill demand. Find something you really dig and the rest is going to fall into place.
I spent 7 years as a software developer. I got paid far more than I was probably worth, had loads of perks, and life was good. Problem was I didn't get any satisfaction out of writing code anymore (not sure that I ever really did). It took me a long time to figure out, but in the end you're going to spend 40 hours (or often 60 in tech careers) a week doing something for the rest of your working life. Your quality of life is going to improved much, much more by genuinely enjoying those 40-60 hours each week than it will by bringing home 90K/yr. Believe me.
At 29 I took about a $25K/yr pay cut and "started over" as a web/ui designer in a new company. It's one of the best choices I'd ever made - I just wish I'd made it when I was much younger. My life would have been much easier.
Isn't a degree worth more than a certificate?
I'd rather spend more time in school getting a degree rather than doing it quick and getting a certificate.
MickMcGeough said:
I know this isn't the advice you're looking for - but I'm going to give you the advice I wish somebody gave me when I was 18.
Screw the market predictions, screw the salary ceilings, screw the skill demand. Find something you really dig and the rest is going to fall into place.
I spent 7 years as a software developer. I got paid far more than I was probably worth, had loads of perks, and life was good. Problem was I didn't get any satisfaction out of writing code anymore (not sure that I ever really did). It took me a long time to figure out, but in the end you're going to spend 40 hours (or often 60 in tech careers) a week doing something for the rest of your working life. Your quality of life is going to improved much, much more by genuinely enjoying those 40-60 hours each week than it will by bringing home 90K/yr. Believe me.
At 29 I took about a $25K/yr pay cut and "started over" as a web/ui designer in a new company. It's one of the best choices I'd ever made - I just wish I'd made it when I was much younger. My life would have been much easier.
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I know, people are always telling me that. And I'm always open to hearing peoples opinion. I actually would love to do a field in IT... Just don't know what exactly I want. Like I said, I like programming, computer science, etc., but there not gonna need alot of programmers in the near future. My friend is actually a network engineer and makes good money, but I know he'd rather be doing something else.
As for me, I've been doing jack **** for the last two years. I would actually love to spend 40 to 60 hours a week keeping my hands and brains busy.
So I might look into Engineering.. cause that's what it looks like its going into.
I know if it's something with tech involved, I probably won't love it, but I would like it. Better than doing anything else.
2 of the fields I'm looking into:
Computer Engineering Technology (Networking)
Computer Programming and Analysis.
your inputs?
Enraged21 said:
Isn't a degree worth more than a certificate?
I'd rather spend more time in school getting a degree rather than doing it quick and getting a certificate.
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Depends. The way I see it (being in the field) If you want to stay on the Engineering side of things and don't have an interest in being Managerial, then Certs + Time In the Field = More Money than Degree.
If you think Certs are the easy way - then you haven't taken any of the tests. If you want to get into Networking you have to have Certs. Then get a job working in a NOC, or for a smaller ISP. Then you work up.
I'm a field engineer so I go to clients' sites and support their IT/resolve their IT problems.
Being a jack of all trades really helps, and having the right mind is a godsend.
Being able to think on your feet to come up with solutions with very few resources, having high google skills also helps, and a resourceful memory for niggly little problems.
In my experience computer degrees are pointless, industry qualifications actually have value as they bring benefits to companies such as partnership programs.
Whats going to be more appealing to customers? "We have 5 engineers with degrees" or "We're a Microsoft Gold Partner" see what I mean?
The more qualifications you get the more you can ask for in salary.
Contracting is where the real money is, you can get paid stupid amounts of money for doing simple things.
I was getting £200 a day on one contract to just create new users and run reports.
so what you guys are saying is,
it's better to be certified in many fields and work my way up rather than getting a degree in a specific field?
Enraged21 said:
so what you guys are saying is,
it's better to be certified in many fields and work my way up rather than getting a degree in a specific field?
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Yes. And pick a field you enjoy too.
alright. I appreciate your advice.
When I try to pick my major in college, I'm listed 3 choices ( All Computer Engineering )
Cisco Specialization
Microsoft Specialization
Cyber Security and Digital Forensics Specialization
Out of all those three fields? which one would be the best to "specialize" in?
They also have two other fields available which are computer programming and analysis, and computer information technology. Too many people in CPA and they won't need them in the near future. CIT is too broad. And I don't really know about that.
Another approach which might be a bit different is if you can scrape up the money to go to a conference or two, that may give you some insight on the different areas of IT and may help guide you on what you may or may not like. Virtualization is huge now due to the whole "cloud computing" thing. Microsoft/Active Directory/Exchange-type environments are widely used, so any experience there should guarantee you a job and an employee in a company or a solutions architect if you can design that infrastructure... or support for that type of environment which would be a first step in that field. I always believed that if you're the type that's into programming, you'll know it early on. The hard part like others have said is choosing what sub-field you want to specialize in (or that you enjoy).
No matter where you go, things can get pretty deep. I know a few people who chose to be project managers and make a good living not knowing anything technical - just the logistics of it all.
If you are going to get into general IT - to start with stick to CSCO and MSFT.
You can't go wrong with acquiring certs from either. While it doesn't hurt to know both - at some point you will find you either like to design and support the network (CSCO). Or you like to do AD, LDAP, Server type of stuff (MSFT).
If you wanted mine on which to chose of the 3 you have, I would suggest trying to get internships at each one, to see which you like. College is expensive, and you don't want to have to go back multiple times, because the degree you got wasn't something you liked.
Take an Internship at a smaller ISP. This will give you a chance to check out both the Network (CSCO) side of things, and Systems (MSFT/Linux/BSD) side of things. Most larger companies (Fortune 500) will split it up like this anyways, as it is too much to wear both hats. So you will have your team of Network Engineer's and your team of Systems Engineers/Admins who generally all report up to a single director/vp.
Don't really have the money or the time to intern. That's why I came seeking advice.
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Two fields spring immediately to mind. Computer Forensics and Computer Security.
Both growth industries and interesting too i imagine.
I'll try to make this my last rant here.
I know you came here asking for advice - but I hope you understand that all advice is necessarily autobiographical.
A lot will disagree with me here, but degrees and certs are worth little. Good instruction is infinitely valuable, demonstrable skills are infinitely valuable, and you can get those in post-secondary schooling, but the piece of paper itself will only help you get your first job, when you have no experience, and the person hiring you is either too lazy to verify your skills, or is unable to do so.
Probably the best developer I ever hired was entirely self-taught. The worst was one of the most highly-educated individuals I'd ever interviewed.
I don't know where you got your information about the software development market drying up but I think you're making too big a deal out of it. I cannot fathom a future in which a good software developer's skills are obsolete. You'll have to switch languages/environments many times in your career, but if you dig coding, just go be the best coder you can.
I implore you, try out some different stuff in school and stick to whatever it is that gets your motor going. Don't worry about a 4% market downturn or what industries might grow. Nobody can predict more than 5-10 years away, and you're going to be doing whatever it is you choose for 30-40 years.