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I've noticed a significant drop in battery life over the last few months corresponding directly to when I S-off'd my device. I've RUU'd, wiped, reformat, all of the usual stuff to make sure it's not crud apps, sync off, wifi scanning off, google now off, etc etc.
The reason I'm wondering about specifically S-off being the culprit is due to the clause HTC includes at the beginning of phone setup.. 'regardless of your 'contact htc' option, your device is considered a test device so it doesn't matter what you choose, your phone will always talk to HTC' (paraphrased). If the phone is capturing and updating various testing metrics to HTC it's never really sleeping and constantly keeping a data connection alive (even if very little data is sent).
I'm attaching a screenshot of what really 'broke the camels back' (or however it goes..). I'm not sure why wifi is shown as being on, it is most definitely turned off from the drop down panel.
Less than 5H of the phone being off the charger, less than 30M of screen on time.. something is keeping it alive and I have no idea what. This is a fresh install, I wiped the phone (w/ no restore) 3 days earlier. Amazon, Plex, Chromecast and Netflix installed. (amazon downloaded an album i had purchased, but that's it)
I've never had good battery life, but this is now in abysmal territory.
pbassjunk said:
I've noticed a significant drop in battery life over the last few months corresponding directly to when I S-off'd my device. I've RUU'd, wiped, reformat, all of the usual stuff to make sure it's not crud apps, sync off, wifi scanning off, google now off, etc etc.
The reason I'm wondering about specifically S-off being the culprit is due to the clause HTC includes at the beginning of phone setup.. 'regardless of your 'contact htc' option, your device is considered a test device so it doesn't matter what you choose, your phone will always talk to HTC' (paraphrased). If the phone is capturing and updating various testing metrics to HTC it's never really sleeping and constantly keeping a data connection alive (even if very little data is sent).
I'm attaching a screenshot of what really 'broke the camels back' (or however it goes..). I'm not sure why wifi is shown as being on, it is most definitely turned off from the drop down panel.
Less than 5H of the phone being off the charger, less than 30M of screen on time.. something is keeping it alive and I have no idea what. This is a fresh install, I wiped the phone (w/ no restore) 3 days earlier. Amazon, Plex, Chromecast and Netflix installed. (amazon downloaded an album i had purchased, but that's it)
I've never had good battery life, but this is now in abysmal territory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
S-OFF won't affect battery afaik, because on my One I'm getting the same battery life as I did before I did S-OFF. Try using a wakelock detector to see what's affecting your battery. Also, try flashing a custom kernel (such as Kangaroo Kernel) and see if that improves battery life.
No.
Sent from my HTCONE using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
_Epic said:
No.
Sent from my HTCONE using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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Click to collapse
^^^
Correct me if I'm wrong, but rooting, custom recoveries, S-off, changing pretty much anything that isn't the OS or the kernel will not affect the operation of the device. It will only ALLOW you to change it.
On a side note, you know what scares the living crap out of me? When I'm on a stock ROM and the Dialer asks for superuser. What the hell is up with that?
sauprankul said:
^^^
Correct me if I'm wrong, but rooting, custom recoveries, S-off, changing pretty much anything that isn't the OS or the kernel will not affect the operation of the device. It will only ALLOW you to change it.
On a side note, you know what scares the living crap out of me? When I'm on a stock ROM and the Dialer asks for superuser. What the hell is up with that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
System apps in a stock ROM usually already have Super User permissions. When you root and install SuperSU all apps must ask for super user permissions again. There's a check box in the settings to auto allow them. Previously I don't think regular SuperUser made system apps get permission again.
spacious said:
System apps in a stock ROM usually already have Super User permissions. When you root and install SuperSU all apps must ask for super user permissions again. There's a check box in the settings to auto allow them. Previously I don't think regular SuperUser made system apps get permission again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I should have googled it before posting lol . Thanks
I S-Off'd on 1.55 Modified and have not seen any change in battery life, it should not be depended on S-Off but rather the Rom and Configuration you are using.
I've been reading threads and am seeing some conflicting information.
Some people say you have to downgrade first.
Some people say you can't root it at all.
Not sure what to believe? Really would like to buy one now that they are on sale.
Thank you so much.
CircularApex said:
I've been reading threads and am seeing some conflicting information.
Some people say you have to downgrade first.
Some people say you can't root it at all.
Not sure what to believe? Really would like to buy one now that they are on sale.
Thank you so much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no root for 7th gen fire(s) on any firmware version
sd_shadow said:
no root for 7th gen fire(s) on any firmware version
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you
Well, dang! Hope someone finds a way soon
miztrniceguy said:
Well, dang! Hope someone finds a way soon
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Click to collapse
Don't hold your breath. Recent FireOS builds benefit from an effort to clean up sloppy (Android) code by Google and others following several high profile security lapses.
sadly, in my brief search about installing stock android on a Fire 7 didn't reveal that the results were talking about older versions, not the current version I got delivered today for $30.
---------- Post added at 06:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:46 PM ----------
Currently perusing thread by Savvytechwinner about bloatware removal tool to see if compatible
miztrniceguy said:
sadly, in my brief search about installing stock android on a Fire 7 didn't reveal that the results were talking about older versions, not the current version I got delivered today for $30.
---------- Post added at 06:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:46 PM ----------
Currently perusing thread by Savvytechwinner about bloatware removal tool to see if compatible
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unlikely unless your device arrived with FireOS 5.4.0.1 or lower. Keep in mind Amazon's generous return policy while considering alternatives. You'll be able to install Google's Play Store which is something if you can live with FireOS and a heavy suite of preinstalled apps.
For the statistics:
I bought a Fire Gen 5 from Amazon.de Warehouse that came with 5.3.3.0
Davey126 said:
Unlikely unless your device arrived with FireOS 5.4.0.1 or lower. Keep in mind Amazon's generous return policy while considering alternatives. You'll be able to install Google's Play Store which is something if you can live with FireOS and a heavy suite of preinstalled apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not sure what it had at first, but as soon as I connected to wifi during setup it updated to 5.4.0.0
I tried several times to interrupt the process but could not. It briefly flashes a "not now" right after you put in wifi password, but doesn't work. 3 times I powered down during the downloading process, booted to recovery, factory restore, and started over. i didn't try pulling power to wifi, but I might at a future date to see what happens. In the mean time I was able to install Google Play.
What version did you receive?
bought a blue one on friday that has 5.4.0.0 preinstalled ??
I turned off the WiFi at the router while it was downloading the update (eg right after it started the process) and it popped up a dialog that said that my connection was slow and it would continue downloading in the background. I still had to turn the WiFi on to complete the setup process after I got that far, but I kept turning it off between steps (and in particular right after it finished the whole thing about getting account details and all.) It never updated the system. So mine is still at the 5.4.0.0 it arrived running. It wants to update, but can't seem to if I'm keeping it busy. Hopefully it won't sneak and do it later. So I guess this method at least works to get you started.
It seems there is a firmware binary for downgrading via adb sideload on the recovery. I'm not sure how safe this is (and mine is still on 5.4.0.0, so I have no reason to flash 5.4.0.0 to it.) KingRoot says a root is available, but it sticks at 1% so I guess it's not working. I'm trying the "updated tools" posted in this forum here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/amazon-fire/help/fire-7-2017-7th-gen-downgrade-debloat-t3699937 and so far everything is saying "success." It doesn't include a root option though. It does say it blocks the OTA updates? It uses adb uninstall from the user level, so I'm not sure how effective that is. Guess it can't hurt anything anyway. Isn't 5.4.0.0 rootable? EDIT: KingRoot now no longer shows a root option. With OTA updater removed I can't get to the system section that shows the current OS version (since they don't have a proper "about" page with actual details.) Maybe it did manage to sneak that update through. (I think it was 5.4.0.1 that it was trying to do first.) EDIT2: Kept retrying KingRoot and suddenly the root option appears again. I think maybe the method it uses is unreliable or something. This time around it didn't freeze at 1% but still did take a long time there. In fact, it's very slow the whole way through (I haven't the slightest clue what it's doing. Normally rooting doesn't take very long on any device, but I guess it depends on the exploit used. It seemed to me more like this was downloading a significant amount of data rather than trying exploits though.) Didn't work though. I saw someone else say it can't be rooted from anything past 5.3.3 something? I guess you can't downgrade to that though or people would already be doing it.
(To be clear, I'm not a fan of KingRoot -- I consider it bloatware and potentially dangerous -- but it seems a lot of Amazon Fire users are using it, so I have to presume it at least is somewhat reliable for them.)
Anyway, at least with all this it has the Play Store, an optional debloat that removes Amazon apps (I may put the app store back just in case, but most of it is a bit excessive IMO,) it removes the ads, and it offers a means of changing the default launcher (sort of. It hijacks anyway. The end result is close enough if a bit messy I guess.)
BTW, as a tip from someone who's used to seeking out lower firmware systems in general, don't buy straight from the source or a "fast" place that goes through stock quickly and doesn't keep a lot at a time (since everything is so automated) like Amazon. Go to a brick and mortar store like Walmart, Target, etc etc. Even online they are more likely to have backstock that has been sitting on a shelf for an unknown length of time. There are never any guarantees, but this does increase your chances of getting something older.
Nazo said:
I turned off the WiFi at the router while it was downloading the update (eg right after it started the process) and it popped up a dialog that said that my connection was slow and it would continue downloading in the background. I still had to turn the WiFi on to complete the setup process after I got that far, but I kept turning it off between steps (and in particular right after it finished the whole thing about getting account details and all.) It never updated the system. So mine is still at the 5.4.0.0 it arrived running. It wants to update, but can't seem to if I'm keeping it busy. Hopefully it won't sneak and do it later. So I guess this method at least works to get you started.
It seems there is a firmware binary for downgrading via adb sideload on the recovery. I'm not sure how safe this is (and mine is still on 5.4.0.0, so I have no reason to flash 5.4.0.0 to it.) KingRoot says a root is available, but it sticks at 1% so I guess it's not working. I'm trying the "updated tools" posted in this forum here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/amazon-fire/help/fire-7-2017-7th-gen-downgrade-debloat-t3699937 and so far everything is saying "success." It doesn't include a root option though. It does say it blocks the OTA updates? It uses adb uninstall from the user level, so I'm not sure how effective that is. Guess it can't hurt anything anyway. Isn't 5.4.0.0 rootable? EDIT: KingRoot now no longer shows a root option. With OTA updater removed I can't get to the system section that shows the current OS version (since they don't have a proper "about" page with actual details.) Maybe it did manage to sneak that update through. (I think it was 5.4.0.1 that it was trying to do first.) EDIT2: Kept retrying KingRoot and suddenly the root option appears again. I think maybe the method it uses is unreliable or something. This time around it didn't freeze at 1% but still did take a long time there. In fact, it's very slow the whole way through (I haven't the slightest clue what it's doing. Normally rooting doesn't take very long on any device, but I guess it depends on the exploit used. It seemed to me more like this was downloading a significant amount of data rather than trying exploits though.) Didn't work though. I saw someone else say it can't be rooted from anything past 5.3.3 something? I guess you can't downgrade to that though or people would already be doing it.
(To be clear, I'm not a fan of KingRoot -- I consider it bloatware and potentially dangerous -- but it seems a lot of Amazon Fire users are using it, so I have to presume it at least is somewhat reliable for them.)
Anyway, at least with all this it has the Play Store, an optional debloat that removes Amazon apps (I may put the app store back just in case, but most of it is a bit excessive IMO,) it removes the ads, and it offers a means of changing the default launcher (sort of. It hijacks anyway. The end result is close enough if a bit messy I guess.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
- no root exploit is available above FireOS 5.3.1
- FireOS 5.3.2.1 and above cannot be rolled back to a rootable build
- KingRoot is a POS that has no idea it is running on FireOS; the algorithm that tests for various vulnerabilities is unreliable at best; runs the entire gambit of suspected Android 5.1.1 exploits many of which are irrelevant
- you will need to perform a 'factory reset' from stock recovery or sideload FireOS 5.4.0.0 to restore any of the apps/functionality the debloat script killed; you'll loose the OTA block and have to go through the same WiFi toggle hoops documented above; you can also block access to access to Amazon's OTA update servers if you scare up the current URL/IPV4/IPV6 list (always changing)
Nazo said:
BTW, as a tip from someone who's used to seeking out lower firmware systems in general, don't buy straight from the source or a "fast" place that goes through stock quickly and doesn't keep a lot at a time (since everything is so automated) like Amazon. Go to a brick and mortar store like Walmart, Target, etc etc. Even online they are more likely to have backstock that has been sitting on a shelf for an unknown length of time. There are never any guarantees, but this does increase your chances of getting something older.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep - purposely snagged a handful early build 5th gen Fire's at a flagging B&M 6 months after they were released. All were rocking FireOS 5.0.1 which supports booting TWRP. First boot was to a custom ROM; never saw FireOS.
Davey126 said:
- no root exploit is available above FireOS 5.3.1
- FireOS 5.3.2.1 and above cannot be rolled back to a rootable build
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what I thought I had confirmed elsewhere, but I really hoped I was wrong.
- KingRoot is a POS that has no idea it is running on FireOS; the algorithm that tests for various vulnerabilities is unreliable at best; runs the entire gambit of suspected Android 5.1.1 exploits many of which are irrelevant
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. I always avoid it if I can, but thought if anything out there would have it it would be that. Presumably once root is established (assuming it's a true root) it's no longer needed. Well, since it doesn't work it's not needed either. Already uninstalled, lol. I trust it about as much as I'd trust a snake oil salesman who says he also is running a new bank system with my money.
- you will need to perform a 'factory reset' from stock recovery or sideload FireOS 5.4.0.0 to restore any of the apps/functionality the debloat script killed; you'll loose the OTA block and have to go through the same WiFi toggle hoops documented above; you can also block access to access to Amazon's OTA update servers if you scare up the current URL/IPV4/IPV6 list (always changing)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, blocking it isn't as easy as you think. Many routers (sadly, mine included) do not have any options to block stuff like this. That would, of course, be too easy. Naturally you could block DNS addresses with root on Android, but that... needs root... But the OTA update tool is more harm than good regardless. The only single thing it does that isn't actually harmful is just showing the current system version. All the rest is just harmful. At least from the perspective of someone who doesn't want a super locked-down device.
I don't think I'd ever want to, but given that those apps are still technically present (hence the reason a factory reset restores them) I do wonder if you can't just access them directly from the ROM itself? I suppose if you could get to the actual APK files you could install those. But stuff like the Amazon AppStore has an official downloadable APK, so there's no real problem there.
Yep - purposely snagged a handful early build 5th gen Fire's at a flagging B&M 6 months after they were released. All were rocking FireOS 5.0.1 which supports booting TWRP. First boot was to a custom ROM; never saw FireOS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Kind of depressing that we'll probably never see an unlocked bootloader, much less a true custom ROM.
Nazo said:
I don't think I'd ever want to, but given that those apps are still technically present (hence the reason a factory reset restores them) I do wonder if you can't just access them directly from the ROM itself? I suppose if you could get to the actual APK files you could install those. But stuff like the Amazon AppStore has an official downloadable APK, so there's no real problem there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Problem arises during installation as ROM sees a variant is already installed but does not have permission to update/replace it. Same for read/execute access. Relevant permissions are associated with Android user profiles which are inaccessible with the level of access permitted on a locked down device.
The batch script uses uninstall. Would it be better to simply disable? I don't like the idea that something might let the OTA updater run though. In my experience some apps -- particularly certain system apps -- can still background run after disabling them. (For example, on a device that didn't support NFC I was disabling the NFC service because, well, why do I need a NFC service on something with no NFC? Yet even with it disabled it was always running every time I ever checked.) I don't relish the idea of starting over, but it would be better now before I've seriously started rather than later.
Nazo said:
The batch script uses uninstall. Would it be better to simply disable? I don't like the idea that something might let the OTA updater run though. In my experience some apps -- particularly certain system apps -- can still background run after disabling them. (For example, on a device that didn't support NFC I was disabling the NFC service because, well, why do I need a NFC service on something with no NFC? Yet even with it disabled it was always running every time I ever checked.) I don't relish the idea of starting over, but it would be better now before I've seriously started rather than later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can't disable most 'system' apps on a Lollipop era unrooted ROM. And - as you observed Android has full permission to reenable any app. Uninstall is the best workaround for a device with limited user permissions. For obvious reasons Amazon blocked the behavior/command in FireOS 5.4.0.1 and above. It is unlikely their engineers will look back to older releases with an eye toward reversing OTA blocks on a minuscule community of devices.
I guess the best thing to do is to edit that batch file to not completely remove a few basics like the Amazon app store itself. I didn't really understand why it removed everything Amazon entirely, not just the actual bloaty stuff. EDIT: I guess this is worth the effort anyway because it's removing stuff like the standard Android contacts even. Not sure why they'd do that. BTW, if anyone else decides to do this it seems "Venezia" is the package for the Amazon app store.
EDIT2: Waugh! I got a bit tap happy there after a factory reset. I tried to hit the "continue" button more than once because it was so slow to load the next page I thought I mistapped. When it got to the wifi selection screen there was at least momentarily the "not now" button available and because I had tapped that extra time in that exact spot it actually went through to the "not now" button and let me skip the setup... So now it doesn't even have a configured WiFi and still let me get to the home screen and everything. This is sort of a better way to anyone who can manage it.
Maybe this method actually requires an initial setup -- maybe it sets some bit somewhere that doesn't clear with a factory reset. Since you can factory reset from the recovery menu, I imagine you could try this if it manages to download the update and reboots to apply it. (Well, I guess the question is if it applies before or after the reboot, but I'd have to assume after since it must surely modify things that are in use.)
PS. After this factory reset I see that it definitely never let an OTA update through. It's still on 5.4.0.0. Well, I suspected as much but couldn't verify before. Since it has no wifi even configured this time around it doesn't even know there is an update waiting just yet. I'll fix that soon enough.
EDIT3: I made a modified version of that batch file where I tried to identify things a bit more and be slightly less extreme in my removals. I used pm hide on a few where it's slightly more questionable since it's not as hard to fix as an uninstall (though, as discussed it's questionable whether they'll actually STAY disabled.
I read that "hide" is a bit more thorough in many ways though and the ones I used hide on I think are slightly less likely to bypass the disabling.) I don't see why the original creator removed some very basic Android apps like the e-mail and clock apps. There are alternatives, but these are as small and minimal as it gets, so it seems pretty weird and extreme to remove them. (I would definitely say it would be better to disable even if you don't want them.) While I was at it I did a hide only version since that's "safer" overall, though a lot of stuff may still bypass it obviously. (It may be best to actually remove the updates rather than hiding them.) I didn't feel like making a more thorough one that actually asks on each or something. (Going for minimal work here, lol.) The hide version seems to not work though atm and I have no idea why. (It only shows the status for a few things and most of the icons are still there despite a lack of any errors.)
Input is welcome since I just modified their batch file as simply as I could and was very unsure about a lot of things.
@Nazo - a couple quick comments regarding your previous post:
- in recent FireOS builds queued OTA updates get applied early in the boot process before UI is presented
- pm hide is not durable and easily reversed; I believe Amazon crippled the command in FireOS 5.3.x.x and above (possibly a rev or two earlier)
Davey126 said:
- in recent FireOS builds queued OTA updates get applied early in the boot process before UI is presented
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That wouldn't be before recovery though surely. (Actually, if I were to guess I'd assume it's a recovery automatic update type thing? I don't know if holding the button for the recovery menu would beat this or not, but I would assume so since otherwise you could have a permanent brick if a boot loop occurred in a broken update or something.)
- pm hide is not durable and easily reversed; I believe Amazon crippled the command in FireOS 5.3.x.x and above (possibly a rev or two earlier)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems so. It looks like pm hide basically doesn't work at all to put it simply. A couple of apps were disabled and that's it. In the end only uninstall has any sort of reliability whatsoever. Too bad it's such a messy solution. I really wish someone would figure out a way to root this thing.
With Android getting more optimized and efficient, as well as more feature packed every day; Do you guys (long time rooters like me) feel that root is necessary, or could provide better performance and or battery (obviously it can, but enough to matter?)
This issue is being discussed in many threads and you had to make your own?
I gave up on root with my last phone. Too much hassle, no longer the reward that made it cost effective. And with so many apps checking for root and not working as a result, I gave it up.
My major reason for going with root was more options and functionality. Both of those have pretty much been addressed for me. I don't see the need to overclock my chip anymore, I don't really need TiBu, Tasker works for what I need it to do without root, and, with the advent of the various theme stores and apps, I don't feel the need to flash unsigned zips.
So no, I don't need to root any more. Truly have no complaints on stock anymore.
@rbiter said:
This issue is being discussed in many threads and you had to make your own?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was exactly what I was thinking.
lazarus0000 said:
I gave up on root with my last phone. Too much hassle, no longer the reward that made it cost effective. And with so many apps checking for root and not working as a result, I gave it up.
My major reason for going with root was more options and functionality. Both of those have pretty much been addressed for me. I don't see the need to overclock my chip anymore, I don't really need TiBu, Tasker works for what I need it to do without root, and, with the advent of the various theme stores and apps, I don't feel the need to flash unsigned zips.
So no, I don't need to root any more. Truly have no complaints on stock anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your input, I'm on the OG Pixel rooted, and I agree with you on newer phones. On this, it's a hassel just updating to newer security patches lol
I root for titanium backup and root explorer. Mostly TB.
I started rooting my phones with the OG droid and in the beginning root was almost a necessity I rooted my droid, droid x ,x2 , droid razr, galaxy s3 and s4 but after my s4 I switched to At&t so I could get the s6 active and the active models were never popular enough for someone in the root community to find a root exploit so I was never able to root my s6 active, s7 active or my s8 active and after going through 3 phone without being able to root I got used to the lack of root access and I also noticed all the things I needed root to do were standard features now so as much as I enjoyed the whole process of rooting my phone at this point i feel like phones dont really need root access anymore. That being said if a root exploit is found for the note 9 I would for sure give it a try, i just got my note 9 and the note line being far more popular than the active line I am hoping someone finds a root exploit just so I can play around with my note and root it for old times sake lol
with root to run exposed's xprivacy(lua) , unless there are alternatives
I choose samsung pay and pass rather then root...
Not really necessary to root now.
for adblocking system wide u can use adhell 3
for youtube adblocking u can use youtube vanced
so no need for root really
I started rooting with the OG DROID. Rooted DINC2, HTC ONE M7, GNEX, Note 3 (maybe 4 I don't remeber), S7, and S8. Like others have said. Most of my reasons for rooting have been eliminated. I only rooted my s8 for the dual speaker mod (note 9 has stereo speakers) and to use volume keys to skip music tracks and to extend battery life. I'm a regular user of YouTube Vanced and Ad Hell also. So unless some really awesome mod is made, if and when SD version gets rooted, I have no reason to root. Note 9 I get just over 20 hours of use before it dies without turning on power saving mode, and it should be noted that I use my phone for everything since I don't have a pc.
I actually got the SD note 9 with the expectation that it will not be rooted seeing that Samsung has really been making it hard the last few years.
Yes, I would not use an android without root, likewise iPhone is useless for me without jailbreaks.
lazarus0000 said:
I don't really need TiBu, Tasker works for what I need it to do without root,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tasker? Are you kidding me? Can't even properly freeze apps with it.
Titanium Bu is still crucial to slim down the load on any android device, especially from using a stock rom.
jult said:
Tasker? Are you kidding me? Can't even properly freeze apps with it.
Titanium Bu is still crucial to slim down the load on any android device, especially from using a stock rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I found in my experience that getting rid of bloat ware is more of ridding myself of an offense, rather than opening up more space in my storage. Ridding myself of Facebook, Hancom office, Samsung browser, etc, makes me feel better because it's offensive that Sammy puts that crap on the phone and, until recently, you couldn't uninstall them (still can't uninstall the browser and Samsung specific stuff). But the space they take up is miniscule - a few hundred MB at most. Sure, when 8 GB was the standard for a phone, that stuff made a bit of a difference. But now that 64 GB is the standard, and you have up to 512 available, a few hundred MB isn't a big dent. And being able to disable apps, though not as satisfying as uninstalling crapware from MY phone, gets the job done.
It's a cost / benefit analysis for me. I can spend hours rooting, uninstall all that nonsense, make a few backups, flash a few zips - that's satisfying in the same way that tinkering with my car used to be. But it introduces instability to the system, custom ROMs aren't always as polished as they should be, and closes me off from some apps that I want and won't play well with root, like Netflix, my banking app, Android Pay, etc...
So long as I can get my phone themed to get rid of that blinding whiteness (#WhiteUIMustDie!) and, IMHO, Samsung's gawd awful color scheme (straight from the 70s Halloween!), disable or uninstall the worst of the offenders (Facebook, I'm looking @ you), and have an awesome phone that's stable and does what I want, root isn't really worth it to me. Cost outweighs benefit.
Go back 5 years and that's a different story. Up until my last phone, I wouldn't even consider purchasing one that was locked down. But times have changed and I'm OK with the status quo now.
I don't really think about it anymore which is weird. The only thing I miss (which is more than just root of course) are the really creative ROM scenes of the early Note and others 4-5 or so years ago. It felt like a different space. Even jailbreaks happened with frequency.
Now the manufacturers have upped their security game but along the way they took a lot of the best features that came from early rooting and ROMs. The Note is so packed at this point it's not easy to think of additional features I need.
However, if I couldn't get system wide adblock through VPN I'd consider leaving unrootable devices.
For me root is nice to have for apps like Viper because the N8 sounds bad without it. That and things like Lucky Patcher, ad block, and quite a few other apps that allow me to turn my phone into a server.
I feel that root is still a necessity to get the maximum use out of my device. If I upgrade from my Nexus 6P to the Galaxy S10 next year, it will be with the expectation that someone out there will find a root or bootloader exploit.
Pros:
-debloat all the crapware Sammy installs
-install ROM/mod to activate flashlight with power button with screen off (absolute necessity for me)
-full Tasker support
-increase number of quick toggles
-Viper4Android (you haven't really listened to music on a phone until you've used this app)
-maintain Google/Samsung Pay support with MagiskSu
Cons:
Be careful when updating unless you're on a custom ROM.
hinnn said:
I choose samsung pay and pass rather then root...
Not really necessary to root now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tend to agree, rooted every phone I have owned until my S8+ when I decided not to.
Same with Note 9
root is always needed imo for various reasons
lightmastertech said:
-maintain Google/Samsung Pay support with MagiskSu
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung Pay isn't compatible with root, as soon as you root you trip Knox and you lose Samsung Pay forever, even if you unroot/flash stock (because Knox has been tripped once).
I have to ask this. I needed a new phone a month ago, and I chose to wait for this one instead of getting a Note 9, and now I still don't have a usable phone and have less than 20 days to return this one. When I did my research about my next phone I was told that Sony phones are developer-friendly and tend to have a clean Android experience, on top of that, this phone has a 3.5mm jack with a great DAC. Now I come to find out that not only does this phone come with bloatware/spyware, even though you can root it, in Android 10, OEMs have the system locked down as read-only, and while Magik can gimmick /system to remove apps, there is no way to delete apps installed in /oem.
Placing apps in a directory that is impossible to change is inexcusable, especially when they are:
1) A game no one wanted which will be irrelevant in 6 months
2) A FREE TRIAL APP
3) A social media application not everyone uses
It isn't by mistake that Sony did this, and it tells me that the pittance they get from Activision, Jay Z, and Microsoft matters more to them than I do as a customer. Some will say that it is possible to simply de-activate the apps, at least unlike Facebook, there are no background services still running and collecting your data, but I say that is irrelevant. I own my phone; I should be able to control what's on it.
I was still running Android 8 on my One Plus 3T that recently died, so I'm not familiar with how Android works today. We went from simple to hard, to harder. There is A/B, no more stock recovery, and apparently fastboot is dead and is replaced by a blank bootloader flash mode that only lets you know you are in it with a tiny blue LED? I don't know how viable TRWP and Linage are on a phone like this, which is why I am asking. There is only one thing I know for sure right now: I don't have much time to wait for custom ROMs built from the ground up to develop and mature.
You can disable verity and delete them. However, even if you could remove them, they'll just keep coming back with updates. Just disable them and move on with life.
LineageOS is pointless because you're going to lose the Sony camera. Why spend $1,200 if you're going to do that? At that point, just get a Pixel 4a for $350.
Some will say that it is possible to simply de-activate the apps, at least unlike Facebook, there are no background services still running and collecting your data, but I say that is irrelevant. I own my phone; I should be able to control what's on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You totally can. Again, this is about dm-verity, which most custom roms disable and spoof to appear enabled. However, if you're gonna do this on the official rom, it'll be your job to pretty much delete every single piece of bloatware every time you update your phone. It's much easier to simply disable the packages because the disable setting is retained through updates.
There is A/B, no more stock recovery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Welcome to pretty much every single device since Pixel 3. This is a Google thing, and has nothing to do with Sony.
apparently fastboot is dead and is replaced by a blank bootloader flash mode that only lets you know you are in it with a tiny blue LED?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, I'll give you this one. Sony did a piss-poor job here. It took me several hours to figure out that:
Vol. Up + Insert USB cable = blue led = fast boot, for which you need to manually install the Google fastboot driver.
Vol. Down + Insert USB cable = green led = download mode, for NewFlasher flashing.
The only indicator is the blue/green LED, which indicates the various modes.
For future reference, I flashed the RU region firmware and it only came with 1 bloatware: Yandex. Best thing about it is, you can uninstall Yandex. So basically I have the 1 II without bloatware! (Except Facebook, but I use it anyway)
YandereSan said:
You can disable verify and delete them. However, even if you could remove them, they'll just keep coming back with updates. Just disable them and move on with life.
LineageOS is pointless because you're going to lose the Sony camera. Why spend $1,200 if you're going to do that? At that point, just get a Pixel 4a for $350.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of, thanks for being cool with your response
Second, I bought this phone for a few reasons, and the camera isn't one of them. For any given phone I want:
1) For it to be unlockable so I can install whatever recovery/kernel/OS I want on it. There aren't many phones like that anymore, at least not in the US.
2) Hardware that will last me at least four years.
3) A 3.5mm headphone Jack with a good DAC.
4) A good, large, color-accurate display.
5) Fingerprint reader.
5) Expendable storage (or a LOT of onboard storage and OTG as a compromise).
I have been using the menu button on the left and back button on the right for eight years now, and I can't fix that on this phone
You totally can. Again, this is about dm-verity, which most custom roms disable and spoof to appear enabled. However, if you're gonna do this on the official rom, it'll be your job to pretty much delete every single piece of bloatware every time you update your phone. It's much easier to simply disable the packages because the disable setting is retained through updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly, the only updates I care about are security updates. If we get lineage or some other mature ROM that can do most of what I want, I'll ditch stock., I only need stock for now. If I do end up updating stock and getting those apps back, I don't mind spending another 5 minutes removing them after the update. I don't like disabled apps for three reasons:
1) If it doesn't disable background services. If you just disable Facebook, Facebook's other services will still keep tracking you and selling your personal information.
2) They still appear in the app menus and stuff, which I hate. It pisses me off seeing COD and a TRIAL for something I'll never, ever, use.
3) I am 99.9% some vulnerability can't exploit them, but I can be 100% sure if they aren't there.
As for why this is all the way it is, I did learn after the fact that it is mostly Google's BS and not Sony. Still, it sucks. I hope I can maybe flash DM variety and disable it on stock.
If I can disable DM variety I'm keeping the phone. If I can't and it doesn't seem like we'll get TWRP and Lineage then I guess I'm getting an Exynos Note 9. I really don't want to though, but those OEM apps WILL haunt me every time I use my phone, touch my phone, think about my phone, or am otherwise reminded I own this phone. Maybe I'm crazy, but that's irrelevant, because that's how it is.
I tried to flash dm variety and disable verification, etc, and it didn't unlock the system, so until TRWP comes to Android 10, it looks like stock in the US is out.
iArvee said:
For future reference, I flashed the RU region firmware and it only came with 1 bloatware: Yandex. Best thing about it is, you can uninstall Yandex. So basically I have the 1 II without bloatware! (Except Facebook, but I use it anyway)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are a god. I looked at the Russian firmware and it doesn't look like it's been dirtied by crazy Putin. You can systemlessy remove all the apps you don't want. I got Magisk and Xposed working on it. I also have 4G on t-mobile, and it lists 5GNR as an option, which the US version did not. To note, I do not have VoLTE or Wifi Calling (not that I care).
I'm going to try and flash the HK dual sim variant just to see if I can unlock the mythical sex sim slot, and also if also fits the bill. I realized that to test dual sim you need a dual sim tray. There is no way to get the Q51 tray to work for this. It doesn't seem that people are selling replacement parts for this phone yet, so right now I can't buy a Q2 tray to test it. I'll circle back around to this in a few months when it becomes time to flip the phone for a Q2, just to see if maybe I don't have to do that.
Thanks everyone for the replies. We could maybe use this as a general TRWP/LineageOS update thread, though I suspect someone will make a new thread as those pass certain milestones.
I bought a Samsung S23+ a week ago. I'm really like it. It's a significant improvement over my old S10.
However, sometimes when I open an app, it immediately closes. It just goes away. No error message, it just disappears. However, tapping on it again brings it up. It isn't consistent which app suddenly closes; it just does. And sometimes it's a major feature of Android, such as Messages. A few times I've tapped on Messages, it starts to come up, then closes immediately. But why does it do that? Is there anything I can do to stop it?
You do a clean load or use SmartSwitch?
Clear system cache.
blackhawk said:
You do a clean load or use SmartSwitch?
Clear system cache.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry, I don't follow you. What do you mean by "clean load" and what's a "SmartSwitch"? What I have done is tried to open an app, like Messages, to have the app initially open, but the immediately close. Not always and not the same app.
And how do I clear the system cache?
Rod F said:
I'm sorry, I don't follow you. What do you mean by "clean load" and what's a "SmartSwitch"? What I have done is tried to open an app, like Messages, to have the app initially open, but the immediately close. Not always and not the same app.
And how do I clear the system cache?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think by "clean load" he means booting up the phone and not restoring any previous backup from google or from the samsung account. Smartswitch is a samsung app that allows you to copy the data from one phone to another. It tends to cause some issues, or carry on issues from the previous smartphones.
I recently traded my N20U for a S23 and used smart switch for i didn't have all my stuff backed up. the phone was overheating and the battery was draining hella fast. I did a clean load and everything is fine; except for this problem of apps closing all of the sudden. Clean loading didn't fixed it for me.
To clear the system cache you have to enter the recovery mode by shutting down your phone and pressing power + volume up until it boots and goes into the recovery mode. From there you can delete the cache. I will try it later and report back.
Today i have received the prompt for the february update, but i am still on january patch.
guile50 said:
I think by "clean load" he means booting up the phone and not restoring any previous backup from google or from the samsung account. Smartswitch is a samsung app that allows you to copy the data from one phone to another. It tends to cause some issues, or carry on issues from the previous smartphones.
I recently traded my N20U for a S23 and used smart switch for i didn't have all my stuff backed up. the phone was overheating and the battery was draining hella fast. I did a clean load and everything is fine; except for this problem of apps closing all of the sudden. Clean loading didn't fixed it for me.
To clear the system cache you have to enter the recovery mode by shutting down your phone and pressing power + volume up until it boots and goes into the recovery mode. From there you can delete the cache. I will try it later and report back.
Today i have received the prompt for the february update, but i am still on january patch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.
Which apps are acting up?
blackhawk said:
Exactly.
Which apps are acting up?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Telegram, GBwhatsapp and twitter are very frequent. Once and a while a random app crashes, but happens twice a day at most. IK GB is a modded app but it and none of the other apps displayed this behaviour on my previous phones.
guile50 said:
Telegram, GBwhatsapp and twitter are very frequent. Once and a while a random app crashes, but happens twice a day at most. IK GB is a modded app but it and none of the other apps displayed this behaviour on my previous phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ditch them; no social media or sales apps should ever be installed. Multi vector security risks and resource hogs. If you must use them login through a secure browser like Brave only. They simply aren't worth all the trouble they will cause.
Instead of Telegram try the Samsung messaging app. The Samsung app runs well for me, no issues. Not the solution you probably wanted but time to take out the trash... it's stinking up the place.
blackhawk said:
Ditch them; no social media or sales apps should ever be installed. Multi vector security risks and resource hogs. If you must use them login through a secure browser like Brave only. They simply aren't worth all the trouble they will cause.
Instead of Telegram try the Samsung messaging app. The Samsung app runs well for me, no issues. Not the solution you probably wanted but time to take out the trash... it's stinking up the place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While i do understand and agree on the resource and security aspect, and shoulda' coulda' woulda' stopped using them, as i have done in the past and still do to this day with some of them, for a few reasons i need to be using some socials nowadays, and have done so for a few years without much hassle until this phone came in. If i could have ditched them, I wouldn't have come to a forum to figure out a way to fix the issue.
But I'll check how functional the web version of some of my socials work on mobile, for it's been a while i haven't used them and they used to lack functions.
guile50 said:
While i do understand and agree on the resource and security aspect, and shoulda' coulda' woulda' stopped using them, as i have done in the past and still do to this day with some of them, for a few reasons i need to be using some socials nowadays, and have done so for a few years without much hassle until this phone came in. If i could have ditched them, I wouldn't have come to a forum to figure out a way to fix the issue.
But I'll check how functional the web version of some of my socials work on mobile, for it's been a while i haven't used them and they used to lack functions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They tend to be a mess. They probably aren't up to date with the latest Android version or Samsung has some glitches with their new firmware. One reason I don't upgrade firmware or update apps is because the phone is running well. In your case perhaps it's going the be a game of upgrade/update roulette.
Is power management active? Any disabled apps or services? Setting changes to system apps? Is a firewall installed? In Accessibility are there any services installed for those apps? For Android 11 and higher there maybe more settings... Samsung's notorious for burying them.
blackhawk said:
They tend to be a mess. They probably aren't up to date with the latest Android version or Samsung has some glitches with their new firmware. One reason I don't upgrade firmware or update apps is because the phone is running well. In your case perhaps it's going the be a game of upgrade/update roulette.
Is power management active? Any disabled apps or services? Setting changes to system apps? Is a firewall installed? In Accessibility are there any services installed for those apps? For Android 11 and higher there maybe more settings... Samsung's notorious for burying them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gave a shot at updating the firmware; it boosted the performance a little bit, the battery is lasting way longer and the apps are closing less.
I ran a bugreport of a full day of use through battery historian and i found something strange, all app crashes are attributed to com.google.android.providers.media.module (which a quick google told me it's the MediaProvider Module from AOSP). Is there something i can do about it?
idk about power management but i have adaptive battery on, and i put discord to sleep; disabled google, meets and chrome; no settings changed; no firewall installed; all accessivility settings are off and no apps are using those permissions. I ****ed around a lil bit and toggled some of the samsung stuff off, but there might still be something buried, yes.
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Adaptive battery is global power management. To verify it's on: Developer options>standby apps, the app bucket states will be varied if it on ie active, frequently, rarely etc.
When off they will always show as active and you can not change the bucket state (it seems to take but after a refresh it hasn't).
This lame feature never worked and uses much more battery than if the the device is hand optimized. It can cause erratic behaviors.
If you deal with the power hog correctly the results are apparent within hours not days or weeks. Lol, Gookill tends to get more stupid over time, not smarter That said hand optimizing takes time but the results are much better and yield a substantial increase in SOT, standby time as well as a snappier, cooler running device.
Optimizing is somewhat trial and error at first and a bit tricky. It eventually becomes almost second nature. This N10+ was a stuttering hot running power hog before it was optimized, now it runs like a bat out of hell. Try temporarily disabling Google play Services and see what that does. Gmail, Playstore and Google backup Transport are dependencies, simply turn on if needed. Kill the notifications for too so it doesn't nag you constantly. See if that helps your issues.
Use Device Care>memory>optimize. Install SD Maid Pro to do more clean up, it's a very useful app. A logging firewall can be very useful for tracking down issues, lets you see what's being busy in the background using data and resources.
com.google.android.providers.media.module, interesting. Apparently it's caused trouble going back to 2011 from time to time. It's a needed service. Go through all the Google account settings. It's good to explore all setting options anyway. Maybe try clearing the Media Storage app cache and check the settings.
I'm more clueless than you why this happening.
Maybe someone here knows why it's puking on you. Otherwise play with it, eventually you'll track the cause down but it may take a while.
If you're in the US you could go to a Samsung Experience center at best buy; they allegedly can run advanced diagnostic tests on it.
blackhawk said:
Adaptive battery is global power management. To verify it's on: Developer options>standby apps, the app bucket states will be varied if it on ie active, frequently, rarely etc.
When off they will always show as active and you can not change the bucket state (it seems to take but after a refresh it hasn't).
This lame feature never worked and uses much more battery than if the the device is hand optimized. It can cause erratic behaviors.
If you deal with the power hog correctly the results are apparent within hours not days or weeks. Lol, Gookill tends to get more stupid over time, not smarter That said hand optimizing takes time but the results are much better and yield a substantial increase in SOT, standby time as well as a snappier, cooler running device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All my apps are active and i cannot flick the switch so i guess it's off. i turned adaptive battery off on battery and device care > battery > more battery settings.
blackhawk said:
Optimizing is somewhat trial and error at first and a bit tricky. It eventually becomes almost second nature. This N10+ was a stuttering hot running power hog before it was optimized, now it runs like a bat out of hell. Try temporarily disabling Google play Services and see what that does. Gmail, Playstore and Google backup Transport are dependencies, simply turn on if needed. Kill the notifications for too so it doesn't nag you constantly. See if that helps your issues.
Use Device Care>memory>optimize. Install SD Maid Pro to do more clean up, it's a very useful app. A logging firewall can be very useful for tracking down issues, lets you see what's being busy in the background using data and resources.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While i'm aware of some optimization techniques, it's been so long since I actually felt the need to tweak something it's actually surreal. My two previous phones were a Mi A2 and a N20U (for almost three years), and I didn't mess around for basically nothing. they ran absolutely fine, I thought my XDA days were gone
But anyways, I did the following: After updating the firmware, I disabled and cleaned the media provider app cache and cleaned the system cache. The phone got immediately snappier, but some of the crashes were still happening. I ruled the Whatsapp crashes to a faulty backup, since I noticed it happened when I open certain chats. idk how to fix this so I just deleted the chat; the com.google.android.providers.media.module crash count went down from 10 to 4 on my two last battery cycles. Something is still crashing, but possibly in the background. I'll keep monitoring it.
Is there any other thread that shows the ropes of optimizing samsung devices aside from this one?
guile50 said:
All my apps are active and i cannot flick the switch so i guess it's off. i turned adaptive battery off on battery and device care > battery > more battery settings.
While i'm aware of some optimization techniques, it's been so long since I actually felt the need to tweak something it's actually surreal. My two previous phones were a Mi A2 and a N20U (for almost three years), and I didn't mess around for basically nothing. they ran absolutely fine, I thought my XDA days were gone
But anyways, I did the following: After updating the firmware, I disabled and cleaned the media provider app cache and cleaned the system cache. The phone got immediately snappier, but some of the crashes were still happening. I ruled the Whatsapp crashes to a faulty backup, since I noticed it happened when I open certain chats. idk how to fix this so I just deleted the chat; the com.google.android.providers.media.module crash count went down from 10 to 4 on my two last battery cycles. Something is still crashing, but possibly in the background. I'll keep monitoring it.
Is there any other thread that shows the ropes of optimizing samsung devices aside from this one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WhatsApp... ditch the trashware. An unstable OS can end up turning into a boot loop very quickly.
Any app that's misbehaving and can't be sorted out gets uninstalled or package disabled.
Find and correct the root cause(s).
All I ever played with are Samsung's and all needed to be optimized. There are numerous posts I've made of it but you see my post count; even I be hard pressed to ferret them all out.
I've thought about starting a thread but I run 9 and 10, plus I have mine configured to my device and needs. So what works well for me may be useless to others. It's a steep learning curve that works best if you learn the what's and why's rather than blindly implementing someone else's list. Eventually you get a feel for it by playing with it. That comes in handy when
Other than Package Disabler I deal with everything through the UI settings, and with 3rd party add ons; no adb edits. The result is a very stable stock Samsung that runs well and a very long lived load. I block upgrades and updates; these can and do break Samsung's so I have learned and waste my time trying to fix the mess they make.
blackhawk said:
WhatsApp... ditch the trashware. An unstable OS can end up turning into a boot loop very quickly.
Any app that's misbehaving and can't be sorted out gets uninstalled or package disabled.
Find and correct the root cause(s).
All I ever played with are Samsung's and all needed to be optimized. There are numerous posts I've made of it but you see my post count; even I be hard pressed to ferret them all out.
I've thought about starting a thread but I run 9 and 10, plus I have mine configured to my device and needs. So what works well for me may be useless to others. It's a steep learning curve that works best if you learn the what's and why's rather than blindly implementing someone else's list. Eventually you get a feel for it by playing with it. That comes in handy when
Other than Package Disabler I deal with everything through the UI settings, and with 3rd party add ons; no adb edits. The result is a very stable stock Samsung that runs well and a very long lived load. I block upgrades and updates; these can and do break Samsung's so I have learned and waste my time trying to fix the mess they make.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Jesus, do you have any apps on your phone? Shouldn't you just get a nokia 3310 at this point?
You bash every feature of a smartphone that makes it smart.
No apps, no software update, no features, no fun. Try living in the woods completely off the grid. Seems more up your alley.
Me Gusta said:
You bash every feature of a smartphone that makes it smart.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you pay more attention, this statement will read as follows:
"You bash every 'feature' of a smartphone that makes it a better spyware."
@Rod F
OneUI has a bug. I used to see app crashing pop-ups quite frequently during the initial period on my S22U. The same build and version of apps ran absolutely fine on my other devices, which too were running on the same Android version as my S22U.
Over time, due to optimisations and updates from Samsung, the number of such pop-ups have reduced to almost none now.
TheMystic said:
If you pay more attention, this statement will read as follows:
"You bash every 'feature' of a smartphone that makes it a better spyware."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like I said. You should get a Nokia 3310.
Me Gusta said:
Like I said. You should get a Nokia 3310.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GDPR happened because someone raised the issue and created awareness. Although it is only a first step, but that too wouldn't have happened if he had just decided to get the Nokia 3310.
Me Gusta said:
Jesus, do you have any apps on your phone? Shouldn't you just get a nokia 3310 at this point?
You bash every feature of a smartphone that makes it smart.
No apps, no software update, no features, no fun. Try living in the woods completely off the grid. Seems more up your alley.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You failed to counterpoint my specific suggestions with your off topic retorts. You got possible solutions for the OP or just hot air for me?