Related
My Nexus 6 has finally shipped! It should be here Friday!
This is my first Nexus and I have never rooted, unlocked, flashed, etc. any of my previous phones.
I have been doing a lot of research and have been considering running CM12.
My question is, should I run my Nexus 6 with stock android for a few weeks and then try CM12? Or should I just root, unlock, and flash CM12 as soon as I get it?
I know that if I wait then I will need to back up all my data because it will factory data reset but I am not worried about that... I understand it is easier to do it right out of the box because you don't have to worry about loosing anything but I can just back my info/apps up so that isn't a big deal.
Also, would you guys suggest something over CM12? Right now I am planning on using CM12 and just getting it setup how I like it then leaving it. I don't plan on always flashing and making changes but I might get sucked into it lol
Thanks everyone!
Has CM moved to 5. 1 yet?
What version android came your phone?
Depending on those two answers you have to ask yourself if you want to downgrade your phone. At least version wise
Sent from my Google N6 on VZ
DebianDog said:
Has CM moved to 5. 1 yet?
What version android came your phone?
Depending on those two answers you have to ask yourself if you want to downgrade your phone. At least version wise
Sent from my Google N6 on VZ
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point! I don't know if CM is on 5.1 yet. I just assumed it was but I will look into it. This is all new to me so thanks for pointing that out, didn't even think about that!
I won't know what version is on the phone until Friday. But even if it is on 5.0 I am sure it will notify me that 5.1 is ready to download as soon as I boot up the phone.
On my other phones I usually got rid of the stock and was on a custom ROM a pretty quick. I have tried a few ROMs on this phone as well. in my experience if you want to be on 5 .1 currently the best way to go is stock with debloating . Or use one of the clean/vanilla ROMs. Of course I did not test them all there are so many out there. Good luck with your new toy.
I will try CM after its been out a few weeks on 5 .1
Sent from my Google N6 on VZ
I'd recommend updating to 5.1 if it doesn't ship with 5.1. Then, I'd run stock for at least a few days to get a baseline for comparison. I think this is useful especially for bugs. That way you can get an idea of the issues that exist in stock 5.1 before using a custom ROM.
DebianDog said:
On my other phones I usually got rid of the stock and was on a custom ROM a pretty quick. I have tried a few ROMs on this phone as well. in my experience if you want to be on 5 .1 currently the best way to go is stock with debloating . Or use one of the clean/vanilla ROMs. Of course I did not test them all there are so many out there. Good luck with your new toy.
I will try CM after its been out a few weeks on 5 .1
Sent from my Google N6 on VZ
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, thanks for the info!
Since I ordered my phone directly from Google, do I need to debloat? Or is that just for carrier versions?
mlin said:
I'd recommend updating to 5.1 if it doesn't ship with 5.1. Then, I'd run stock for at least a few days to get a baseline for comparison. I think this is useful especially for bugs. That way you can get an idea of the issues that exist in stock 5.1 before using a custom ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another great point! I knew you guys were the people to ask! lol
What about rooting and unlocking? Would you suggest waiting on that as well? Is there really any reason to unlock and root if I won't be running CM? I was going to root so that I could decrypte but it sounds like the lag from encryption is fixed in 5.1.
Well I would guess you WILL want to unlock and root because who does want to be able to run a root level ad blocker? Who wants to wait on OTA for an update? Not me.
I got mine from Google, as well, and heres what I did:
Played with the phone in stock form for like an hour saw it was still on 5.01 even after updating
Decided this is not for me. I wanted my root apps and I wanted to copy all the stuff off my old phone with Titanium backup to the Nexus
Looked on the interwebs for the easiest way to get root
Found a tool from my old buddy WugFresh (I knew him in the Droid X days)
Prepared myself for a giant PITA night. Download, drivers, and programs, reading various sites, etc, etc, etc
Was freaking SHOCKED that the tool did ALL THIS for me. I mean I literally plugged in my phone and it collected and set up everything. (It also has a console if you feel the need to type in adb commands)
Was unlocked, upgraded, rooted with a custom recovery with all my apps copied over in less than an hour
Sent Wuggy some $$$ and a thank-you note
You only need to decrypt, IMO, if you are running high end games that demand that level of performance. I have not seen any lag myself. Again this is my own personal experience. Your results may vary. 5.1 has optimized out many of the issues I heard about in 5.01 or so I have been told.
CFrance said:
Another great point! I knew you guys were the people to ask! lol
What about rooting and unlocking? Would you suggest waiting on that as well? Is there really any reason to unlock and root if I won't be running CM? I was going to root so that I could decrypte but it sounds like the lag from encryption is fixed in 5.1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I unlocked and rooted right away, mainly for the ability to use Titanium Backup to setup my phone and in the event that I installed a custom ROM. Outside of TB, I haven't really needed or used root, but it sure is nice to have. I played with a few custom ROMs before 5.1 came out but mostly felt that I preferred the stock experience. I downloaded the MCR modpack found here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=58019266&postcount=1 but have yet to install it. If/when I do, root will become more of a requirement for my uses.
I came from a Verizon Note 4 which could not be rooted. I got used to not playing with my phone and just using the stock experience. Its nice that the stock experience on the N6 is so fantastic and stable. It makes it easy to just use the phone without worry of fixing, modding, and adding features, though I still enjoy those aspects too which is why I'll likely use MultiROM next time I decide to install something custom.
Dude are you somehow tied up with this Tool Kit? You`re promoting it on so many threads i`am starting to get the impression you`re not quite objective about it There is no harm in using toolkits by xperienced users and i`am sure its well build, but for newbies its very dangerous because they`re lost if something should go wrong.
gee2012 said:
Dude are you somehow tied up with this Tool Kit? You`re promoting it on so many threads i`am starting to get the impression you`re not quite objective about it There is no harm in using toolkits by xperienced users and i`am sure its well build, but for newbies its very dangerous because they`re lost if something should go wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which is exactly why I'm promoting it it is almost bulletproof. what's the alternative loading all the different tools and drivers they need and following some instructions found on the internet.
And as I explained in my post you can just download the tool to make sure you have all the drivers and connections. use it to get the proper files you need and then run the command line like a power user if you want to feel better about yourself.
Sent from my Google N6 on VZ
DebianDog said:
Which is exactly why I'm promoting it it is almost bulletproof. what's the alternative loading all the different tools and drivers they need and following some instructions found on the internet.
And as I explained in my post you can just download the tool to make sure you have all the drivers and connections. use it to get the proper files you need and then run the command line like a power user if you want to feel better about yourself.
Sent from my Google N6 on VZ
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will never use/promote a Toolkit even if it seems very good for the reason i posted earlier. Flashing manualy in fastboot doesn`t take more time and makes users more aware about their phone and knowledge of it and gives you control over whats happening Just my 2 cents.
My two cents. I don't think you've dealt with enough newbies. on another forum it was me and a group of others that would help people get their phones out of boot loops and soft bricks. I have literally helped hundreds of people get their phone back.
even if you look here on XDA you'll see people trying to flash the wrong files download files that are not even for their phone, are following a dated instruction or don't really understand how directories work.
Sent from my Google N6 on VZ
DebianDog said:
Well I would guess you WILL want to unlock and root because who does want to be able to run a root level ad blocker? Who wants to wait on OTA for an update? Not me.
I got mine from Google, as well, and heres what I did:
Played with the phone in stock form for like an hour saw it was still on 5.01 even after updating
Decided this is not for me. I wanted my root apps and I wanted to copy all the stuff off my old phone with Titanium backup to the Nexus
Looked on the interwebs for the easiest way to get root
Found a tool from my old buddy WugFresh (I knew him in the Droid X days)
Prepared myself for a giant PITA night. Download, drivers, and programs, reading various sites, etc, etc, etc
Was freaking SHOCKED that the tool did ALL THIS for me. I mean I literally plugged in my phone and it collected and set up everything. (It also has a console if you feel the need to type in adb commands)
Was unlocked, upgraded, rooted with a custom recovery with all my apps copied over in less than an hour
Sent Wuggy some $$$ and a thank-you note
You only need to decrypt, IMO, if you are running high end games that demand that level of performance. I have not seen any lag myself. Again this is my own personal experience. Your results may vary. 5.1 has optimized out many of the issues I heard about in 5.01 or so I have been told.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the info! I actually had just downloaded this program over the weekend and was planning on using it once I do decide to root... which I am thinking will be as soon as I get the phone. lol other than that I think I am going to run it on stock for a while at first and wait until CM is on 5.1 for a while....
mlin said:
I unlocked and rooted right away, mainly for the ability to use Titanium Backup to setup my phone and in the event that I installed a custom ROM. Outside of TB, I haven't really needed or used root, but it sure is nice to have. I played with a few custom ROMs before 5.1 came out but mostly felt that I preferred the stock experience. I downloaded the MCR modpack found here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=58019266&postcount=1 but have yet to install it. If/when I do, root will become more of a requirement for my uses.
I came from a Verizon Note 4 which could not be rooted. I got used to not playing with my phone and just using the stock experience. Its nice that the stock experience on the N6 is so fantastic and stable. It makes it easy to just use the phone without worry of fixing, modding, and adding features, though I still enjoy those aspects too which is why I'll likely use MultiROM next time I decide to install something custom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks! I am planning on rooting and unlocking right away for TB and maybe a couple other little things like lightflow just for fun. Being the nerd that I am, I have a feeling that once I start playing with the whole rooting, unlocking, and flashing stuff I am going to really enjoy it.
gee2012 said:
I will never use/promote a Toolkit even if it seems very good for the reason i posted earlier. Flashing manualy in fastboot doesn`t take more time and makes users more aware about their phone and knowledge of it and gives you control over whats happening Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the reply! I see what you are saying, I had already come across Wug's toolkit over the weekend and was planning on using that because it seemed so simple.
However, seeing how I still have two and a half days until my phone will be here, maybe I will look into the manual way a little more to decide which route I want to go.... Any suggestions on where to start? Threads, videos, etc?
Thanks!
Boot into download mode, Unlock bootloader, reboot, boot back into download mode, fastboot twrp recovery, boot into recovery, reboot via recovery and install su when prompted. When you boot into android you will be prompted to update su. You now are rooted. Only other thing I would think about when you first get your device is if you want forced encryption. You will be required to wipe SD data if you decide to go with non forced encryption.
I loved cm on my previous touchwiz devices because I like stock/asop style. I find cm has bugs in early os update releases. I would only install cm if i took advantage of themes which I don't.
CFrance said:
Any suggestions on where to start? Threads, videos, etc?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can waste a lot of time while you're waiting for your phone in this thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2992769
ROM Reviews (5.1) + Nexus 6 Hacking: NRT · Apps · Utilities [3.22.15]
Sent from my Google N6 on VZ
Hi! I picked up my Canadian P20 Pro last week and couldn't be happier. It's been many years since I've owned a rootable device though and a lot has changed! I've done my best to read through all the guides for rooting the P20 Pro and it's only lead to further confusion as there seem to be many recent advancements. There seem to be a lot of different versions of this phone too. So I have some questions I'm hoping someone can answer easily! Let's assume my bootloader is already unlocked....
1) there's a really great guide on rooting the P20 Pro using All In One tool. But that requires flashing TWRP to achieve root using Magisk. I do not require TWRP as I only want root and do not wish to flash any roms.
a) is there a way to root with Magisk and NOT flash TWRP? I can't seem to find a straight answer on this...
b) failing that, can TWRP safely be removed and keep root afterward?
2) after unlocking the bootloader I was welcomed by a terrifyingly orange warning about my now 'unsafe' phone. I've read mixed things on hiding this. Is there currently a way to hide it?
3) how does the process work for OTA updates on an unlocked bootloader assuming there is no TWRP? I've read differing opinions on the necessity of flashing a no_check.img to the ramdisk and have no understanding of the new security checks on these phones. Can I run risk of bricking my phone through an automated update?
Ultimately I'm scared of forgetting TWRP is on my phone and accepting an update that'll brick it. Any information is welcome as are similar questions!
I am also curious if there is a good root process for this phone. Find anything yet?
djparent said:
Hi! I picked up my Canadian P20 Pro last week and couldn't be happier. It's been many years since I've owned a rootable device though and a lot has changed! I've done my best to read through all the guides for rooting the P20 Pro and it's only lead to further confusion as there seem to be many recent advancements. There seem to be a lot of different versions of this phone too. So I have some questions I'm hoping someone can answer easily! Let's assume my bootloader is already unlocked....
1) there's a really great guide on rooting the P20 Pro using All In One tool. But that requires flashing TWRP to achieve root using Magisk. I do not require TWRP as I only want root and do not wish to flash any roms.
a) is there a way to root with Magisk and NOT flash TWRP? I can't seem to find a straight answer on this...
b) failing that, can TWRP safely be removed and keep root afterward?
2) after unlocking the bootloader I was welcomed by a terrifyingly orange warning about my now 'unsafe' phone. I've read mixed things on hiding this. Is there currently a way to hide it?
3) how does the process work for OTA updates on an unlocked bootloader assuming there is no TWRP? I've read differing opinions on the necessity of flashing a no_check.img to the ramdisk and have no understanding of the new security checks on these phones. Can I run risk of bricking my phone through an automated update?
Ultimately I'm scared of forgetting TWRP is on my phone and accepting an update that'll brick it. Any information is welcome as are similar questions!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a Canadian CLT-L04 that i rebranded and rooted to CLT-L29 with the guide on here.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/hu...de-how-to-root-debrand-remove-retail-t3788326
if you want better firmware compared to version 109 thats still on clt-l04 you can follow this guide, it worked well for me. (don't wait canadian OTA it'll take too long)
1) quite sure that TWRP is the easiest and safest way to root. Currently unaware of a better way to root the phone.
b) if you remove TWRP by flashing a stock recovery_ramdisk, root is kept. If you do an OTA though you might lose root.
2) thats here to stay i believe. Cannot find a way to hide it currently.
3)In this guide under the "install an OTA Stock Update: PC Method" you will find all the information you need.
cheers
I finally found the info I needed in this thread:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/hu...ide-getting-started-unlock-twrp-root-t3806180
Overall it was a very simple process and took less than an hour including reading. Once you've got your bootloader unlock code the all in one tool handles it from there. Unlock the bootloader, flash TWRP, reboot into TWRP, flash Magisk and you're done. You can flash the no_check file over TWRP if you want to be ready for updates but I decided to leave TWRP on for now. Loving having root on this phone so far!
On a different note, has anyone discovered any ROMs for this phone yet that can handle the notch? I almost tried Lineage until I found out there is no notch support. I've grown strangely fond of the thing for some reason lol
rhinogator said:
I have a Canadian CLT-L04 that i rebranded and rooted to CLT-L29 with the guide on here.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/hu...de-how-to-root-debrand-remove-retail-t3788326
if you want better firmware compared to version 109 thats still on clt-l04 you can follow this guide, it worked well for me. (don't wait canadian OTA it'll take too long)
1) quite sure that TWRP is the easiest and safest way to root. Currently unaware of a better way to root the phone.
b) if you remove TWRP by flashing a stock recovery_ramdisk, root is kept. If you do an OTA though you might lose root.
2) thats here to stay i believe. Cannot find a way to hide it currently.
3)In this guide under the "install an OTA Stock Update: PC Method" you will find all the information you need.
cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you by any chance find a way to go back to CLT-L04 by any chance?
mrnovanova said:
Did you by any chance find a way to go back to CLT-L04 by any chance?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
unfortunately no
mrnovanova said:
Did you by any chance find a way to go back to CLT-L04 by any chance?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you do a full backup of the L04 in TWRP before rebranding you should be able to go back to it easily at any time, just remember to save it somewhere safe other than the phone itself. If you've already flashed and are looking to go back you may find someone willing to share a stock backup if you ask around. But always best to do your own backup first, then you can go back whenever you like!
djparent said:
If you do a full backup of the L04 in TWRP before rebranding you should be able to go back to it easily at any time, just remember to save it somewhere safe other than the phone itself. If you've already flashed and are looking to go back you may find someone willing to share a stock backup if you ask around. But always best to do your own backup first, then you can go back whenever you like!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never thought of backing up my L04. ??? I guess I'm stuck with L29. Oh well... Thanks for the reply.
help with rebranding tutorial
mrnovanova said:
I never thought of backing up my L04. I guess I'm stuck with L29. Oh well... Thanks for the reply.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
bro did u use the same files as the main tutorial that you share? cause I have the L04 but the mexican one, and I want to rebrand it
but i'm a noob in this things, hope you can help me.:good:
Search for dladz's tutorial.
ON THIS THREAD : https://forum.xda-developers.com/hu...to-root-debrand-remove-retail-t3788326/page46
Page 16
Sent from my Google Pixel 2 XL using XDA Labs
Anyone unlocked bootloader and rooted recently for the L04 model with 120(C792) Sept-2018 update?
Im scared to update before unlocking and rooting as the update might do something to fastboot etc. (this has happened to LG)
If not, then Ill update but if so, Ill just not update and unlock it as it is.
JF-GINO said:
Anyone unlocked bootloader and rooted recently for the L04 model with 120(C792) Sept-2018 update?
Im scared to update before unlocking and rooting as the update might do something to fastboot etc. (this has happened to LG)
If not, then Ill update but if so, Ill just not update and unlock it as it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's really easy to update once you've unlocked, I would suggest unlocking first if you have concerns. I have an L04 as well and just updated to 120 with no problems.
djparent said:
It's really easy to update once you've unlocked, I would suggest unlocking first if you have concerns. I have an L04 as well and just updated to 120 with no problems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, Thanks djparent, I unlocked and updated as you suggested.
Everything working properly, just need to root/twrp etc. now.
Thnaks again
No problem, glad it worked for you. I've soft bricked and recovered my phone a few times now experimenting so if you run into any problems I'm happy to help! Lots to learn with the P20.
I have a CLT-L04 8.1.0.136 C69 with October security patch from Mexico I want to rebrand it to CLT- L29 to get wifi calling and get rid of all the bloatware. Could I use this tutorial from dladz's tutorial:
ON THIS THREAD : https://forum.xda-developers.com/hua...3788326/page46
Page 16
One of the notes mentions the following: I) ]NOTE*** If you are on a later firmware than 120, please do not attempt this guide!!
I have only rooted one phone before in my life so I am no expert. I do no want to mess up my phone becuse it is the only one that I have. Also If I unlock the boot loader and rebrand can i get OTAs and the upcoming Pie release? Thanks for the help!
LineageOS 15.1 on L04
I installed LineageOS 15.1 on my L04 with out any issue. Some things to consider. USB-C will only charge the device, Titanium Backup will install but doesn't get root access and you'll miss the camera application.
Vedrick said:
I installed LineageOS 15.1 on my L04 with out any issue. Some things to consider. USB-C will only charge the device, Titanium Backup will install but doesn't get root access and you'll miss the camera application.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you install it with a locked bootloader ? I really dont feel like paying for an unlock code. Would like to try Lineage though.
matever said:
Did you install it with a locked bootloader ? I really dont feel like paying for an unlock code. Would like to try Lineage though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do have an unlocked bootloader. Truth is i'm addicted to Rom's lol. That in mind I have tried every Rom, kernel, flash-able zip within this Forum and I can't brick this thing. L04 Canadian. Lineage is the best Rom for our device.
Roms that work:
- Lineage - Hauwei camera can be installed and works, dark mode works well.
------- Doesn't work: USB-C audio, NFC, RAW Option in the camera, Second ear piece as speaker, main speaker works well.
- First Ever Android 9 - Being the first build it works well. (Note: When I installed this rom I never installed the RemoveEncryption-P20Pro.zip) Seemed to work just fine without it. I did run it just because I wanted to see if it would brick my phone. It didn't.
-------Doesn't work: Dark mode, NFC, RAW Option in camera, Second ear piece as speaker, main speaker works well, seems to kill TWRP. eRecovery needed to get TWRP to function.
- AOSP 9 - Berkeley-Flex - Do Not Use...not ready.
Vedrick said:
I do have an unlocked bootloader. Truth is i'm addicted to Rom's lol. That in mind I have tried every Rom, kernel, flash-able zip within this Forum and I can't brick this thing. L04 Canadian. Lineage is the best Rom for our device.
Roms that work:
- Lineage - Hauwei camera can be installed and works, dark mode works well.
------- Doesn't work: USB-C audio, NFC, RAW Option in the camera, Second ear piece as speaker, main speaker works well.
- First Ever Android 9 - Being the first build it works well. (Note: When I installed this rom I never installed the RemoveEncryption-P20Pro.zip) Seemed to work just fine without it. I did run it just because I wanted to see if it would brick my phone. It didn't.
-------Doesn't work: Dark mode, NFC, RAW Option in camera, Second ear piece as speaker, main speaker works well, seems to kill TWRP. eRecovery needed to get TWRP to function.
- AOSP 9 - Berkeley-Flex - Do Not Use...not ready.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What did you use to unlock your bootloader ? Funky ? Also I know what you mean I am addicted to Roms as well :laugh: Thanks for all the info I really appreciate it.
Hi there !
So for the first time in years of ownership, I am interested in Rooting.
Naturally I searched around here, but could only find 2017 and 2018 threads with many problems and various bugs.
For an April 2020 guy, rooting is stock latest ROM, and interested in keeping stock but go rooted (mostly to block some Android trash) - What is the easiest way, can I have a link that is updated, or a paid tool I can buy and not mess with anything ?
Thanks a lot !
baboon23 said:
What is the easiest way, can I have a link that is updated
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Crack on - https://forum.xda-developers.com/xp...devonly-exploits-temp-root-to-backup-t3795510
SXUsr said:
Crack on - https://forum.xda-developers.com/xp...devonly-exploits-temp-root-to-backup-t3795510
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Too much mess for my blood !
How much would It be to hire your service via screenshare ?
PM me please
Keep in mind I only want a root so I can disable some stock google trash with F-Droid apps.... I don't really need a new ROM, or do I ?
I rooted mine on stock just a few weeks ago.
All I did was unlock the bootloader, flash TWRP, then flash the latest magisk. I then used Titanium Backup to remove the bloat. It was quick and painless.
Thanks !
Which thread did you use as guide/link glossary ?
I didn't use a guide, just did it based on experience rooting my Sony devices from before. But I can write up something brief. How much knowledge do you have rooting devices?
baboon23 said:
Too much mess for my blood !
How much would It be to hire your service via screenshare ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't want to do it that way, and if you do it yourself you'll gain a little experience which makes restoring or further modding easier.
baboon23 said:
Keep in mind I only want a root so I can disable some stock google trash with F-Droid apps.... I don't really need a new ROM, or do I ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want to root you need to unlock the bootloader, if you're unlocking your BL then it's advised to backup your DRM keys and restore them after unlocking your BL which is a one time process. Everything you need is in the thread I've linked to above.
Thanks SX. I have seen a lot of your work around here doing searches, and I'm honored that you reply to my question
I will have a crack at it, I have done those things before but I remember not leaving the house for a few days, so it scarred me a bit
Haha
One last question if I may.... Do you believe that installing Lineage with no google on the xz1c is worth it? I guess it's a general question, but what I'm really asking is, should I even bother with rooting for privacy if my end goal isn't to flash Lineage ?
OK, after some more research, I have decided that what I really want to do is just install the 17v LineageOS version for the XZ1C.... It is my understanding it is possible without a root. ?
For sure the bootloader needs unlocking and TWRP to backup/flash correct ?
Super SU, does that make my procedure easier in any way ?
It is my understanding that if I flash a Lineage OS after unlocking via code and flashing TWRP, then the camera and all will still work.
Considering I don't mind binning that phone if I get sick of Lineage (I have like four of those in a box) - Can I skip the TA backup and restore ?
Apologies for the newb questioning, just trying to "get the hang" of it so I actually understand what i'm doing rather than just follow guides.
I'm a bit older than all you guys so forgive me
I'm running lineage 16.1 on root with unlocked bootloader without restoring TA. But I didn't care about preserving the keys. Yes camera works great and everything is super stable.
You don't have to root lineage so if you need help best to narrow down what exactly you want to do as there are many possibilities.
betacrypt said:
I'm running lineage 16.1 on root with unlocked bootloader without restoring TA. But I didn't care about preserving the keys. Yes camera works great and everything is super stable.
You don't have to root lineage so if you need help best to narrow down what exactly you want to do as there are many possibilities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely, you're right !
I will be as specific as I can:
Sony abandoned the XZ1C, so I want to swap to Lineage OS with a full heart with no Gapps (i'll manage).
Here is what I understand tell me if I am correct:
1. Unlock bootloader via sony website
2. Flash latest TWRP
3. Use it to flash 17.1 Lineage OS from the genius dude (mod punk?)
4. Happy days
5. If modpunk updates it, will I be able to update with no reformatting ?
baboon23 said:
Absolutely, you're right !
I will be as specific as I can:
Sony abandoned the XZ1C, so I want to swap to Lineage OS with a full heart with no Gapps (i'll manage).
Here is what I understand tell me if I am correct:
1. Unlock bootloader via sony website
2. Flash latest TWRP
3. Use it to flash 17.1 Lineage OS from the genius dude (mod punk?)
4. Happy days
5. If modpunk updates it, will I be able to update with no reformatting ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep that's about right. Unlock bootloader with Flash Tool by getting unlock code from Sony. Flash TWRP in fastboot mode. Boot to TWRP and flash lineage 17.1. If you don't need gapps you're good to go.
As for lineage updates probably best to check with the thread. Usually you can dirty flash, i. e. flash new version over the old and it should be ok. Lastly check to see if they're are any major bugs with 17.1. Since it's so new there could be issues. 16.1 is smooth fast and stable if you ever need to go back to it.
betacrypt said:
Yep that's about right. Unlock bootloader with Flash Tool by getting unlock code from Sony. Flash TWRP in fastboot mode. Boot to TWRP and flash lineage 17.1. If you don't need gapps you're good to go.
As for lineage updates probably best to check with the thread. Usually you can dirty flash, i. e. flash new version over the old and it should be ok. Lastly check to see if they're are any major bugs with 17.1. Since it's so new there could be issues. 16.1 is smooth fast and stable if you ever need to go back to it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Superb, thank you so much ! What a wonderful community. I feel like im stealing. I will be sure to donate !
One question, may I use adb tools for the bootloader ?
No problem. That one I'm not sure about. I've only used flash tool myself but adb tools should work with the right commands.
Yay for me !
Bootloader unlocked, onto recovery and LOS
I did it !
Thanks yall
I get this horrible " please lock the bootloader" greeting when I turn on the device, for 5 seconds.
Is that normal for everyone ?
baboon23 said:
Considering I don't mind binning that phone if I get sick of Lineage (I have like four of those in a box) - Can I skip the TA backup and restore ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You've got 4 XZ1Cs in a box?
baboon23 said:
I get this horrible " please lock the bootloader" greeting when I turn on the device, for 5 seconds.
Is that normal for everyone ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is yes, you'll have to live with that unfortunately. In regards to the TA, I would have taken the time to back them up, that'll matter should you wish to return to stock. It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. But you've achieved what you wanted to which is all that matters. :good:
Thank you sir !
You're probably right, I just couldn't be bothered... Sometimes 20 minutes more is like a life long more
Well, now that all is installed....
So when modpunk stopps working on the project (like sony stopped working on the xz1) - Will it be safe to just continue using the phone without updates at all ?
Or is the eventual doom of all ROM Flashers is to come back to stock (but then, it doesn't get updates anymore also...)
So does it matter in which platform I remain outdates ?
Re the XZ1's, I knew that this was going to be the last proper small phone so I made sure to stock. I plan to carry these into 2022 …….
Problem is, I think even in box without, the batteries will die out. So I'm not sure how smart I was when I got several.
All in all, for all phones I paid less than one iPhone so I'm pretty happy, but hopefully a lab can change the batteries on them.
baboon23 said:
Thank you sir !
You're probably right, I just couldn't be bothered... Sometimes 20 minutes more is like a life long more
Well, now that all is installed....
So when modpunk stopps working on the project (like sony stopped working on the xz1) - Will it be safe to just continue using the phone without updates at all ?
Or is the eventual doom of all ROM Flashers is to come back to stock (but then, it doesn't get updates anymore also...)
So does it matter in which platform I remain outdates ?
Re the XZ1's, I knew that this was going to be the last proper small phone so I made sure to stock. I plan to carry these into 2022 …….
Problem is, I think even in box without, the batteries will die out. So I'm not sure how smart I was when I got several.
All in all, for all phones I paid less than one iPhone so I'm pretty happy, but hopefully a lab can change the batteries on them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe it is recommended to charge lithium-ion batteries fully every other month or so to keep it healthy.
If you are rooted I recommend checking out the ACC magisk module and controller app. This allows the phone to stop charging when the battery level has reached a certain level. In the long run keeping your device charged between I think 80% - 20% will increase your battery longevity by 200% (sorry I don't remember the exact study this was from).
And I agree the XZ1c is the last proper small phone. I've rebuilt mine from one sold for parts from eBay and now it feels like new.
About the security:
If you want to you can keep a look out for specific vulnerabilities in Android after the last security patch released for the custom rom.
https://source.android.com/security/bulletin
But in general by not connecting to sketchy WiFi hotspots, being un-rooted, having se-linux on enforcing, and running af-wall (requires root permissions) or another firewall you should be good for a while.
I think it really depends on what security issues get discovered in the future and what vulnerabilities your specific use case opens you up to.
Hi guys !
What about DRM key backup ?
I need help if you have a solution
https://forum.xda-developers.com/xp...de-to-install-lineageos-17-1-scratch-t4136195
Thanks you !
Totally stock pixel 5. Tried to sideload 12, and due to crappy instructions on XDA, that failed to mention the need to do the OEM unlock step, I ended up with a ADB sideload flash that failed at 94% and resulted in a empty A partition and a phone that failed to boot, so it switched to the backup system partition.
I'm now booted on the B partition (Android 11).
How can I fix my phone, so it's got 2 good system partitions?
Enable OEM unlocking, unlock bootloader, then use the Android Flash Tool to flash 12 Beta 5. Wiping /data shouldn't be necessary; however, if this fails and you have to force flash all partitions, a /data wipe will be required.
I highly recommend you keep the bootloader unlocked while using beta firmware, because it makes it a LOT easier to downgrade back to production firmware.
If you intend to root, don't forget to disable dm-verity and vbmeta-verification.
Detailed instructions on using the Android Flash Tool
Tip: When you get to the step of selecting which build to flash to your device, click the pencil icon to change options. Make sure you leave Relock Bootloader unchecked,
V0latyle said:
Wiping /data shouldn't be necessary
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But unlocking the bootloader will wipe the phone.....
EDIT: I'm assuming there is a wipe data option with Android Flash Tool?
I don't know. I've never used it
xunholyx said:
But unlocking the bootloader will wipe the phone.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct, but it's still necessary to install the beta (and downgrade)
xunholyx said:
EDIT: I'm assuming there is a wipe data option with Android Flash Tool?
I don't know. I've never used it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is indeed. It's actually quite comprehensive.
I don't want to unlock the bootloader. I just want to get a system partition back, I do t want root or any modifications,
Chr1stOnABike said:
I don't want to unlock the bootloader. I just want to get a system partition back, I do t want root or any modifications,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In that case, I believe the only option for you is to attempt to sideload the OTA via recovery.
Download the beta OTA here
Follow the instructions to apply the OTA here
If this does not work, you can try using the Android Flash Tool after enabling Developer Options and USB Debugging. You can choose not to wipe your device in the tool options. No guarantee this will work. Requires unlocked bootloader
I will say this: Running beta software on a locked bootloader is not only highly inadvisable, it's foolhardy. Beta software is EXPERIMENTAL, you use it AT YOUR OWN RISK, meaning it is YOUR responsibility to fix it if something goes wrong. Keeping your bootloader unlocked means your ability to fix it is limited, if not impossible.
V0latyle said:
In that case, I believe the only option for you is to attempt to sideload the OTA via recovery.
Download the beta OTA here
Follow the instructions to apply the OTA here
If this does not work, you can try using the Android Flash Tool after enabling Developer Options and USB Debugging. You can choose not to wipe your device in the tool options. No guarantee this will work.
I will say this: Running beta software on a locked bootloader is not only highly inadvisable, it's foolhardy. Beta software is EXPERIMENTAL, you use it AT YOUR OWN RISK, meaning it is YOUR responsibility to fix it if something goes wrong. Keeping your bootloader unlocked means your ability to fix it is limited, if not impossible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Flash tool doesn't work, as it expects to go i to recovery, and it doesn't it comes up with the no system error.
So when android 12 releases in a couple of weeks, will it just flash it to the other partition, to retain 11? In other words,will this fix itself in the fullness of time.
Also, who is going to fix the crappy XDA blog post that was poorly checked that caused this mess. I can't be the only one (I know the flawed instructions have been copied by the usual churnalists 9to5google Android authority, Android police)
Chr1stOnABike said:
Flash tool doesn't work, as it expects to go i to recovery, and it doesn't it comes up with the no system error.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah. Well, you can fix this, but it will require unlocking the bootloader.
You can always relock it after you're done.
Chr1stOnABike said:
So when android 12 releases in a couple of weeks, will it just flash it to the other partition, to retain 11? In other words,will this fix itself in the fullness of time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't know. Given that you can't boot into recovery, you can't sideload the OTA to test this theory. I personally doubt it. You can either wait and see, or you can just bite the bullet and fix the issue.
Chr1stOnABike said:
Also, who is going to fix the crappy XDA blog post that was poorly checked that caused this mess. I can't be the only one (I know the flawed instructions have been copied by the usual churnalists 9to5google Android authority, Android police)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Link to the post? You may not be the only one, but the majority of folks (including myself, I was in the Marine Corps for 9 years so you can guess my mental acuity) have been able to use the instructions to our success.
Isn't unlocking and relocking bootloader detectable in soft fuses and an instant warranty void?
How to install Android 12 and 12L on Google Pixel and other Android devices
Google has just released Android 12L beta for the Pixel lineup. Here is how you can install Android 12 (or 12L) on your smartphone!
www.xda-developers.com
Someone in the comments also broke their phone by following the untested Instructions.
Chr1stOnABike said:
Isn't unlocking and relocking bootloader detectable in soft fuses and an instant warranty void?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure. But that raises a question for you: Why are you running beta firmware if you're worried about the warranty?
Chr1stOnABike said:
How to install Android 12 and 12L on Google Pixel and other Android devices
Google has just released Android 12L beta for the Pixel lineup. Here is how you can install Android 12 (or 12L) on your smartphone!
www.xda-developers.com
Someone in the comments also broke their phone by following the untested Instructions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have updated my phone using both of these methods and can personally confirm the instructions are correct. The only difference I would point out is that I'm comfortable enough using adb and fastboot commands that I manually type them and don't use the batch file.
It is your responsibility to understand the instructions and follow them. You flash and modify your device at your own risk. If you do not fully understand the instructions, it is also your responsibility to either find the details you need, or ask for help.
This may seem rather condescending or apathetic, but the situation is this:
- You tried to run experimental beta firmware on your device despite your concerns for the warranty
- You did not ask questions before doing so, and if you did read any of the multiple threads on this issue, you would have been acutely aware of the recommendation to unlock your bootloader before you proceed
- You are now left with few options to fix your device because you decided to ignore experienced advice and do things your own way
As I stated previously, the responsibility for fixing things is yours and yours alone. If you were that concerned with your warranty, you should have kept your phone completely stock and avoided installing the beta.
I have one last recommendation for you:
Disenroll from the beta program and wait for the OTA to take you back to A11 public release. A data wipe will be required.
You have been told in detail what you can do to fix your device. What you do now is completely up to you.
V0latyle said:
I'm not sure. But that raises a question for you: Why are you running beta firmware if you're worried about the warranty?
I have updated my phone using both of these methods and can personally confirm the instructions are correct. .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The instructions only work if you have previously done the unmentioned OEM unlock step, which you must have done.
The fact you don't understand this, it limits your credibility. Just because something worked for you, doesn't make it correct.
It also sounds like you don't understand the difference between OEM unlock and a bootloader unlock.
Chr1stOnABike said:
The instructions only work if you have previously done the unmentioned OEM unlock step, which you must have done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes - I unlocked and rooted my phone the day I got it, and I bought it full price direct from Google. Your point?
Chr1stOnABike said:
The fact you don't understand this, it limits your credibility. Just because something worked for you, doesn't make it correct.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it's always worked for me. I've been trying to work with you here and give you options that do not require OEM Unlock or unlocking the bootloader. The reason I thought the Android Flash Tool might work is because it's literally a tool provided by Google, and though it uses ADB, I figured they might have some sort of security to allow recovery of locked phones.
What exactly is it you don't think I understand? As I've pointed out, you decided to install beta software on your device despite your concerns for warranty. As I ALSO pointed out, if warranty was that much of a concern for you, you should have stayed on stock public release firmware and not messed with anything at all.
I will admit that the guide you linked does not mention needing an unlocked bootloader. I think it's generally been assumed among us in the community that modifying your device requires an unlocked bootloader. I will talk to the mods and see if we can get a note added to the post. However, you seemed to miss the big warning that advises against using the beta on your daily driver.
Chr1stOnABike said:
It also sounds like you don't understand the difference between OEM unlock and a bootloader unlock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, how so? If you're going to call me ignorant, you had better explain how.
OEM Unlock simply sets a flag: "unlock-ability" to 1. It's an on/off switch that corresponds to the 1 or 0 set for the "unlock-ability" flag. It has no other function.
When someone attempts to unlock the bootloader, the device checks that flag. If it's 0, the bootloader cannot be unlocked. If it's 1, it can.
Unlocking the bootloader disables security features that prevent you from flashing partitions on your phone, or booting images sent via ADB. The reason why this is important when running custom or experimental firmware is because it allows the user to reflash corrupted partitions (like in your case). It allows a lot more freedom over what you can do with your phone.
I've been doing this for years - more than 10 years in fact. I would be careful about making accusations like "you don't understand the difference" or "you don't know what you're talking about'" to someone who is trying to help you. I understand you're frustrated, but you're going to have to swallow your pride here and admit, at least to yourself, that you screwed up. It seems pretty clear to me that you either did not fully understand the risk of trying to modify your device with a locked bootloader (yes, installing the beta counts as a modification), or you ignored the risk and tried to do it anyway. Yet you come here and impugn my credibility? As they say, "check yourself before you wreck yourself". You screwed up and got yourself into this mess. You alone are to blame. No one has to help you, and believe me, I've been quite tempted to tell you to pound sand. The least you can do is show a little gratitude for someone who's trying to help, and respect for experience and knowledge far beyond your own.
I have one more option for you: Rescue mode.
Reboot your phone into bootloader (hold power + volume down, release power but keep holding volume down when screen turns off)
Use volume buttons to select rescue mode on the right side, then press power to select
Google Pixel Repair Tool
This probably won't work because the repair tool only works if the firmware on your phone is older or equivalent to the firmware the repair tool has.
Chr1stOnABike said:
The instructions only work if you have previously done the unmentioned OEM unlock step, which you must have done.
The fact you don't understand this, it limits your credibility. Just because something worked for you, doesn't make it correct.
It also sounds like you don't understand the difference between OEM unlock and a bootloader unlock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't had time to read much of this thread yet, but why insult the one person I see who's trying to help you?
I've seen this before and other users who may know what to do, usually just walk away as they don't want to help someone who may just insult them or are clearly unappreciative of the help given.
Everyone let's all keep it civilized.
If you have issue with a post, please hit report button and walk away.
Positive vibes, all.
--andybones
@Chr1stOnABike I am indeed trying to help you, as I understand your situation is frustrating. I also understand that it may be frustrating to be told to do what you didn't want to do in the first place, but the reason why I'm telling you to do it is because it'll be of the most help to you.
Losing your data sucks. I get it. But fortunately the Pixel 5 is great about backing everything up to your Google account. Just make sure your photos are backed up and you'll be fine. Setting it back up after a wipe is a pain in the ass, but again, I'm recommending the bootloader unlock because I believe it's your best chance at recovery.
As far as that goes, I'm still trying to be flexible and provide you with different options. Be aware that if these other options don't work, you have no other choice. I'm not saying that to be rude, that's just the reality of it.
And lastly, I would very much appreciate you making the distinction between thinking I'm wrong because you have evidence to the contrary, vs thinking I'm wrong simply because you don't like my recommendations. If you sincerely believe I'm incorrect and can demonstrate how, please feel free to do so.
My only objective here is to help people the best I can with the knowledge and experience I have.
For those who ever get stuck like I did. When I got stuck in a bootloop, I realized I could 'fastboot boot twrp.img' and was able to save my internal storage from being lost by backing up to PC with TWRP, then move it back onto internal after the factory reset. Did I lost app data in these cases, yes. But that's my own fault for not regularly backup app data up with something like Swift or AppDash.
@Chr1stOnABike just checking in to see if you were able to get your problem resolved?
This was my first attempt at ever trying to put custom rom on a phone, so don't laugh too hard at me. I used the the twrp.img found in this forum, had it going right but when I did something trying to go back to stock for an update, it went into bootloader, but nothing else, no system no recovery. I tried to use the fastboot tool on here, and it reached this and stopped. Any help or is it done for?
PS, I did manage to follow one tutorial to a T, and did great my second time around.
btflyrose said:
This was my first attempt at ever trying to put custom rom on a phone, so don't laugh too hard at me. I used the the twrp.img found in this forum, had it going right but when I did something trying to go back to stock for an update, it went into bootloader, but nothing else, no system no recovery. I tried to use the fastboot tool on here, and it reached this and stopped. Any help or is it done for?
PS, I did manage to follow one tutorial to a T, and did great my second time around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So your second round where you stuck at..?
Have your tried getting factory file...boot img..flashing boot img through fastboot..?
have you tried...fastboot boot " fastboot getvar current-slot " see what slot you on...change to other slot ...see if it boots up...?
What model do you have..?
the more details you give to more people can help you..just saying
I'm sorry, I've not been back online. Single mom, busy. Kids getting older, I have a little more spare time during school hours but this past week has been hectic.
I tried to flash the original boot.img with no luck. It goes black when it connects to a computer but vibrates but isn't recognized on my adb or the fastboot tool. So far nothing.
My second time was another phone, same phone though. OnePlus 10 pro NE2015 model.
The issue also could be that there are no real custom ROMs for this phone yet... you might have flashed a malicious file and killed the phone. Unless you were hopping to GSI. Only real suggestion is to try a complete flash from TWRP or pay for MSM.
If you can't get into recovery, can you flip the boot slot with the hardware combo and get in then? May be your last hope besides EDL/MSM.
This issues happend to Oneplus 9 series with bad update (F.19), but I see this issues for the first time on Oneplus 10 Pro. Is it really on OP10P?
Prant said:
The issue also could be that there are no real custom ROMs for this phone yet... you might have flashed a malicious file and killed the phone. Unless you were hopping to GSI. Only real suggestion is to try a complete flash from TWRP or pay for MSM.
If you can't get into recovery, can you flip the boot slot with the hardware combo and get in then? May be your last hope besides EDL/MSM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How exactly do I do a flip? If it's even possible to get into recovery. So far, I've not had luck.
kouzelnik3 said:
This issues happend to Oneplus 9 series with bad update (F.19), but I see this issues for the first time on Oneplus 10 Pro. Is it really on OP10P?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it's the 10 pro. I was too eager to root a phone and must have missed something, or done something somewhere. I've done several tablets, but not any phone. I've always had Samsung phones through carriers, so I couldn't figure knox out. But I've been researching and reading for months about rooting a phone, and decided that the OP 10 pro would be my first try. I'm not sure where I went wrong. I managed to get a second one, and followed the guide again, and well, that is the one I'm on now, and it seems fine.
btflyrose said:
How exactly do I do a flip? If it's even possible to get into recovery. So far, I've not had luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AFAIK, according to @g96818 as well, you have to hold all three hardware buttons down, let it attempt to boot, continue holding the buttons and it should like shut off immediately right after the boot logo and switch to the other boot slot.
btflyrose said:
Yes, it's the 10 pro. I was too eager to root a phone and must have missed something, or done something somewhere. I've done several tablets, but not any phone. I've always had Samsung phones through carriers, so I couldn't figure knox out. But I've been researching and reading for months about rooting a phone, and decided that the OP 10 pro would be my first try. I'm not sure where I went wrong. I managed to get a second one, and followed the guide again, and well, that is the one I'm on now, and it seems fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, the key to this device is basically do not flash anything to it, just boot from images. You CAN flash TWRP but I would personally recommend against it for daily use right now until data decryption is fixed fully. Just BL unlock, root it, and play with some Magisk modules like V4A, that's all we got on 10Pro for now.
Just some pics of the device...
But @Prant I'm curious to know, what is the difference between having the TWRP and not having it installed regarding rooting? Luckily, OP makes rooting for easier with unlocking the BL. But honestly, the confusion I've had the most understanding in the rooting process at this point is the whole difference between having TWRP and not having it, while installing Magisk.
(Y'all have to excuse me for my not having as much knowledge. I'm just basically a bored at home Mom with kids getting older, and tries to find something to get interested in that wasn't so old lady like. I've never been one to enjoy sewing, knitting, gardening, etc... HA!)
btflyrose said:
But honestly, the confusion I've had the most understanding in the rooting process at this point is the whole difference between having TWRP and not having it, while installing Magisk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a bit of a dated thing from 6-8 years ago or so, TWRP used to be the gold standard for recovery on a phone. However, nowadays companies have gotten smarter and want more control over their device, so they add things like Knox (in Samsung) to keep the device "safe." OPPO/OnePlus has started doing this with the OP9 and the OP10 is their first attempt at keeping the device "basically" locked.
Long story short, TWRP is useful to do backups but I've even seen cases of backups on this device in particular failing when restored. And it used to be the main entry point, the first step to rooting any android device. However in recent years, it's become less and less necessary as you can do almost everything you can do in TWRP, through ADB and fastboot. Flashing is still a no go (on this device, thanks to OPPO magic) , but booting a patched image works for now. In the next years I'm sure even that will be secured somehow.
And, haha, there's nothing wrong with getting into tinkering, it's a helluva rabbit hole that's for sure.
Good luck and feel free to reach out if you have any questions.
Prant said:
This is a bit of a dated thing from 6-8 years ago or so, TWRP used to be the gold standard for recovery on a phone. However, nowadays companies have gotten smarter and want more control over their device, so they add things like Knox (in Samsung) to keep the device "safe." OPPO/OnePlus has started doing this with the OP9 and the OP10 is their first attempt at keeping the device "basically" locked.
Long story short, TWRP is useful to do backups but I've even seen cases of backups on this device in particular failing when restored. And it used to be the main entry point, the first step to rooting any android device. However in recent years, it's become less and less necessary as you can do almost everything you can do in TWRP, through ADB and fastboot. Flashing is still a no go (on this device, thanks to OPPO magic) , but booting a patched image works for now. In the next years I'm sure even that will be secured somehow.
And, haha, there's nothing wrong with getting into tinkering, it's a helluva rabbit hole that's for sure.
Good luck and feel free to reach out if you have any questions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is there a reason that the OP10 doesnt have any roms but the OP9 has lots?
w_tapper said:
Is there a reason that the OP10 doesnt have any roms but the OP9 has lots?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Easiest answer is that there is no free / public MSM tool. Which means no way to recover from a bad flash without paying OPPO, essentially. That's not very developer friendly.