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Real Camera Experience - P20 Pro Vs Pixel 2 XL - DxoMark lies? or faulty software?

I have both devices currently and from my very brief short time with the P20 pro , the pictures taken with it don't even come close to the quality you can get from the Pixel 2 XL.
Please tell me its just a case of faulty software, else I think I may be taking this phone back sadly.
Problems so far
Images lack any real detail and are very soft
HDR mode still hidden
Night Mode whilst great is still a 4 sec picture.. (but still soft ) - (The advantage you get from those 4 secs does not seem worth it from my quick test - but i'll keep testing)
Camera UI is rubbish... (subjective i know)
But it will be interesting to know if anyone else as similar experiences , as most reviewers online appear to suggest that this is the best camera phone ever!

Can't say my photos come out soft, mine are pretty close to what I see with my eyes. Not as sharp as some cameras that seem to over sharpen via post processing. More natural images than most cams I have used.
With the P20 Pro you do have to fiddle a bit in different situations, it's definitely not as versatile as the pixel if you just want to point and shoot. Some of my pics come out better when I bump up the megapixels. Some need nightmode or for me to disable the AI.
You can adjust pretty much everything. You don't need to always take 4 second night shots, you can adjust the time for the situation. Sometimes a second is enough.
The UI is a bit of a pain I agree, although I did expect that with the sheer amount of options provided. There is a lot going on. I'm having great success in Pro mode in my limited testing so far. It is a bit or a learning curve with the P20 Pro compared to other phones though for sure.
---------- Post added at 10:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 AM ----------
I forgot to add that the front camera is a different story, not that I take many selfies but...damn. Beauty mode seems to be undefeatable. Even when turned off I come out looking like a Ken doll. They really need to provide some kind of fix for that. The camera itself is capable of better pics, looks like they gimped the software.
I emailed them about it, because as it is, it's not that useful.

What i can say from my experience using several huawei phone is that, ever since P9,
The phone built with a photographer user (not really common point and shoot user) in mind,
Manual or semi auto setting always work best in various condition. Especially if the user understand well the corelation between apperture size, speed and ISO sensitivity and how it affect the picture quality/result.
That being said, someone who come from pixel 2 (i own pixel 2 xl myself as well) might find that the camera app UI and the auto mode is not as easy/versatile to use compare to google one. But the potential is definitely there.
Honestly, when using huawei camera, i mostly shoot in RAW and do the post processing later on myself. Auto mode is good enough for daily usage like shooting food or friend for instagram use. But the true power is in manual mode. Thats where all those leica software engineer chime in.

Thanks guys
Can you give me some examples of your images after post-processing ?
I'm more than happy to use pro mode (I also had a V30) , but even in pro the images just don't look right at all.
Also it was mentioned that the colours are more true to life but again i'm not seeing this when compared to the pixel (I took a very quick random picture of a orange t-shirt and it came out yellow on the p20 pro... )

Horses for courses. If you only want to point n shoot then Pixel or S9, if you're more into photography than that then easily the P20 Pro over anything else on the market right now. DxO ratings have always correlated poorly to actual general use, I thought everyone had worked that out by now.

Highspeed123 said:
Can't say my photos come out soft, mine are pretty close to what I see with my eyes. Not as sharp as some cameras that seem to over sharpen via post processing. More natural images than most cams I have used.
With the P20 Pro you do have to fiddle a bit in different situations, it's definitely not as versatile as the pixel if you just want to point and shoot. Some of my pics come out better when I bump up the megapixels. Some need nightmode or for me to disable the AI.
You can adjust pretty much everything. You don't need to always take 4 second night shots, you can adjust the time for the situation. Sometimes a second is enough.
The UI is a bit of a pain I agree, although I did expect that with the sheer amount of options provided. There is a lot going on. I'm having great success in Pro mode in my limited testing so far. It is a bit or a learning curve with the P20 Pro compared to other phones though for sure.
---------- Post added at 10:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 AM ----------
I forgot to add that the front camera is a different story, not that I take many selfies but...damn. Beauty mode seems to be undefeatable. Even when turned off I come out looking like a Ken doll. They really need to provide some kind of fix for that. The camera itself is capable of better pics, looks like they gimped the software.
I emailed them about it, because as it is, it's not that useful.
Click to expand...
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Could you please share some of the settings that helped you? I for one am not able to find the setting to disable the AI [Edit - Did you mean the Master AI setting? It seems to only affect the Photo mode]

Not a point an shoot quite yet
I would say the Samsung Note 8 or S8/9 are easier to use but the colours on the P20 Pro seem more realistic once you have disabled AI.
If you like to work in Pro mode and use the manual focus you can get some very good results on the P20 Pro but everything set to auto and its random whether the shot works out or not.
In particular for close ups manual focus is infinitely more effective than trying to wait for the auto focus which sometimes fails completely.
If you use the P20 Pro like you would a camera the depth of abilities are way up there but AI doesn't quite work well enough yet to provide reliable results.
Remember DX0 is only about sensors not ease of use or UI etc its just about sensor performance.
My 2p worth..

After more playing around with the p20 pro i've come to the conclusion that its not for me.
I'm more of a point and shoot guy and the p20 pro is too random with its pictures to really be a good point and shoot.
I'm going to stick with the pixel 2 xl, and would advise anyone looking for a simple point and shoot camera to look elsewhere.
P.S Surely the LG V30's manual mode is superior to the p20 pro if you want to play with manual settings?

Tiger33 said:
After more playing around with the p20 pro i've come to the conclusion that its not for me.
I'm more of a point and shoot guy and the p20 pro is too random with its pictures to really be a good point and shoot.
I'm going to stick with the pixel 2 xl, and would advise anyone looking for a simple point and shoot camera to look elsewhere.
P.S Surely the LG V30's manual mode is superior to the p20 pro if you want to play with manual settings?
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I would agree with you, if you simply need a point and shoot camera. Pixel 2 XL wil do better for you
P20 Pro, just like the "Pro" moniker it bring along, will suit a seasoned photographer more.
As for manual mode conparison between LG v30 and P20, i would say, no. LG is nowhere close to huawei manual/pro mode. But again, that is a subjectivity. Someone who were common with a DSLR / Mirrorless camera manual set up, will appreciate huawei software more. Since it resemble their old "real" camera gear more. DxO is quite an oldtimer in photography area, and what they did with their test, is what normally a photographer will do as well. Unfortunately, thats not always the case with the rest of mobile phone user. Thats why the result is oftenly unrelateable.
Btw, before you actually ditch your P20 pro, can you give it one more chance, but this time,
Try to shoot everything using night mode (even in daylight). I think you will find the result totally different with your previous experience.
Thats all i can suggest for now. If you wonder, why nigh mode ?? Maybe this video can help you get a better idea :

Tiger33 said:
P.S Surely the LG V30's manual mode is superior to the p20 pro if you want to play with manual settings?
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I don't think the number of settings and the options given to the photographer are nearly as good with LG. Huawei are in a class of their own in that regard, at the moment. UI can definitely be improved a bit though.
Also, the V30 uses a tiny 1/2.9" sensor, like the iPhones.

Right, I've created a very quick group in flickr with some pictures taken with both p20 pro and pixel 2 xl.
would love to get your opinions.
In all cases i'm just using Auto with no AI for the P20 Pro,
https://www.flickr.com/groups/[email protected]/
Again in my eye the pixel 2 xl is 'alot' better than the P20 Pro ( bad photographer? = me )
So yes i just pointed, focused and shot the picture.
Just using auto and no AI for the pictures too.
let me know if you think i should adjust settings and i'll continue making adjustments.
I have a few more days with phone before making final decision.

I've added another 3 pictures to the group
https://www.flickr.com/groups/[email protected]/
1 taken with pixel 2 xl
1 taken with p20 pro auto
1 taken with p20 pro night mode (as suggested earlier)
Night mode just appears to oversharpen the image badly IMO?? , whilst auto is too soft
Picture 7 - P20 Pro - Night Mode
Picture 7 - P20 Pro - Auto
picture 7 - Pixel 2 XL

Looks to me very close although I think the P20 shots on Auto are a slightly over exposed but have less noise and the Pixel shots are better exposed but have more noise.
I would say the P20 will be better for night shots if you are happy waiting 6 seconds for a shot, but the Pixel 2 XL will take better auto day time shots.

Tiger33 said:
Right, I've created a very quick group in flickr with some pictures taken with both p20 pro and pixel 2 xl.
would love to get your opinions.
In all cases i'm just using Auto with no AI for the P20 Pro,
https://www.flickr.com/groups/[email protected]/
Again in my eye the pixel 2 xl is 'alot' better than the P20 Pro ( bad photographer? = me )
So yes i just pointed, focused and shot the picture.
Just using auto and no AI for the pictures too.
let me know if you think i should adjust settings and i'll continue making adjustments.
I have a few more days with phone before making final decision.
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Click to collapse
iI've checked your album,
and i would agree that the roof top auto result from P20 Pro is lPretty bad. Sky was overblown. And pedestrian area is not looks that good as well. But for the night mode shoot, i wont say that as an oversharpen image though. The detail on trhe brick is quite good, sky is not clipping, and in overall, it has less noise compared to the pixel 2XL.
same case with ST. Pancras shot, i would say that in term of detail and noise level, P20 pro has an advantage here. You can check the detail on the top decoration, as well as near the ceiling. While Pixel 2 XL already abit of smudgy because of the noise, P20 result still showing the fine detail. So am not sure what you mean by "soft". (check my attachment to understand which area am talking about)
what confused me is the dinning room shot. I check the ISO and Shutter Speed of both shot. And in both shoot, Pixel 2 using faster shutter speed and lower ISO, yet the result is much darker in P20 Pro shot. This doesn't really go well with a photography theory, LoL. Slower speed and higher ISO should always resulting abrighter image. Yet the P20 Pro image is so bad at retaining the dark area.
May i know some details from you :
1. How do you point your focus/metering ? Do you always focus on same area/spot when shooting using the two phones ?
2. What resolution did you use on P20 Pro ? 40MP or 10MP ? 40MP use full resolution, but will deject the post processing, causing softer & darker image, but good for self post editing. But will looks bad if you plan to use the picture directly. In contrary, 10MP will use the post processing engine more, resulting in more pleasant picture for mobile use.

Sorry i left the attachment

otonieru said:
iI've checked your album,
and i would agree that the roof top auto result from P20 Pro is lPretty bad. Sky was overblown. And pedestrian area is not looks that good as well. But for the night mode shoot, i wont say that as an oversharpen image though. The detail on trhe brick is quite good, sky is not clipping, and in overall, it has less noise compared to the pixel 2XL.
same case with ST. Pancras shot, i would say that in term of detail and noise level, P20 pro has an advantage here. You can check the detail on the top decoration, as well as near the ceiling. While Pixel 2 XL already abit of smudgy because of the noise, P20 result still showing the fine detail. So am not sure what you mean by "soft". (check my attachment to understand which area am talking about)
what confused me is the dinning room shot. I check the ISO and Shutter Speed of both shot. And in both shoot, Pixel 2 using faster shutter speed and lower ISO, yet the result is much darker in P20 Pro shot. This doesn't really go well with a photography theory, LoL. Slower speed and higher ISO should always resulting abrighter image. Yet the P20 Pro image is so bad at retaining the dark area.
May i know some details from you :
1. How do you point your focus/metering ? Do you always focus on same area/spot when shooting using the two phones ?
2. What resolution did you use on P20 Pro ? 40MP or 10MP ? 40MP use full resolution, but will deject the post processing, causing softer & darker image, but good for self post editing. But will looks bad if you plan to use the picture directly. In contrary, 10MP will use the post processing engine more, resulting in more pleasant picture for mobile use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep that is what was so frustrating, I noticed the night shot of St pancras Hotel sign and could see it looked do much better yet that was the only example
All other pictures the pixel looked better
I'm using 10MP and I'm focusing on the same area with both phones

otonieru said:
Sorry i left the attachment
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Which images are taken with which phone?

scook94 said:
Which images are taken with which phone?
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Warmer tone is P20 Pro

otonieru said:
Warmer tone is P20 Pro
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Click to collapse
Images 2&4? They certainly seem the superior pictures.

So far I'm not too wowed by the camera either :/
Hoping to learn to use it properly because some sample shots I've seen look amazing but I can't seem to get anything like that.

Better to take photos in 40 or 10mpx?

Sorry if someone already explained but I've not found an answer.
I would like to understand when is better to take pictures with 40mpx sensor and when is better with 10 mpx option.
Sorry but this huawei is new for me and I would like to understand how to make the best photos
Thank you for help

if the situation permits, then 40mp. the worse the conditions, the more compromises.

As far as I can tell 40mp is useful in Pro mode and i have posted the difference it makes on my insta. HDR and night mode revert to 10mp. You can have a look if you search my feed tag justaninstaguy there is a a few pics. I can't upload on the XDA app it keeps coming up with bad request.

you can post your Photos on Flickr with hashtag #huaweip20pro > https://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/huaweip20pro

starbase64 said:
if the situation permits, then 40mp. the worse the conditions, the more compromises.
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Click to collapse
Which are the conditions for the 40 mpx?

Socialnotworking said:
As far as I can tell 40mp is useful in Pro mode and i have posted the difference it makes on my insta. HDR and night mode revert to 10mp. You can have a look if you search my feed tag justaninstaguy there is a a few pics. I can't upload on the XDA app it keeps coming up with bad request.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your answer.
At the moment the photo I've taken are better in 10mpx. Anyway I can't see much difference with the s9 plus, to be honest many pics are better in s9 plus

marko68 said:
Thank you for your answer.
At the moment the photo I've taken are better in 10mpx. Anyway I can't see much difference with the s9 plus, to be honest many pics are better in s9 plus
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Click to collapse
Quite possibly, I think the hardware in the P20 Pro is right up there but they just don't have the development refinement of Samsung or perhaps Google as yet. It was the same on the Mate 10 Pro, on paper it was perfect but niggles made it frustrating. That's the attraction with Apple, it may not be good value or offer but 99% of users can experience 99% of the capability of the phone whereas with the P20 Pro and Mate 10 Pro you really have to try hard to get the best out of it right now.

marko68 said:
Which are the conditions for the 40 mpx?
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a sunny day or tripod in low light

Socialnotworking said:
Quite possibly, I think the hardware in the P20 Pro is right up there but they just don't have the development refinement of Samsung or perhaps Google as yet. It was the same on the Mate 10 Pro, on paper it was perfect but niggles made it frustrating. That's the attraction with Apple, it may not be good value or offer but 99% of users can experience 99% of the capability of the phone whereas with the P20 Pro and Mate 10 Pro you really have to try hard to get the best out of it right now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree

after hundreds of shots...I prefer 10mpx. Details, sharpness , lights, everything is better
40mpx sensor is useful only for particular situations and to take compensated photos (night mode, ecc but this automatically happens)

40mp by far in daylight. In low light 10mp.
Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk

This is a good explanation I found on another site "Now, you don't actually want to take 40MP pictures. Tap that image size in the settings menu and you won't get access to the other lenses. Instead, you want to leave it on the 10MP setting. This doesn't retire the 40MP lens. Here, it will oversample the picture and make it the best it can be when it's squeezed down to the lower, 10MP resolution. It also lends a hand when zooming beyond 3x. The 8MP camera takes great detailed images at that range, but bump it up to 5x and hybrid zoom will mix in the feed from the 40MP sensor to help improve overall clarity."

At least at daylight, taking 40MP and resized to 10MP, the result is much better than taking 10MP directly.
The main problem of 10MP is it's over-sharpen, 40MP resized to 10MP reduced the problem although still some.

marko68 said:
Sorry if someone already explained but I've not found an answer.
I would like to understand when is better to take pictures with 40mpx sensor and when is better with 10 mpx option.
Sorry but this huawei is new for me and I would like to understand how to make the best photos
Thank you for help
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you need to change zoom then 10 is the way as you can't with 40..
If you're stationary and perhaps taking a wide angle image like a landscape or a city or sky or a large group of people, something you need detail for them 40 is the way.

Google Camera Mod for P20 Pro

Hello @Arnova8G2,
I saw your work with the Google Camera Mod for various phones and I just want to say impressive work! I am using the Huawei P20 Pro and absolutely hates the Front Camera functionality. Tried to download your file to use on my phone but was unable to do so. When I try downloading it is says there as a problem parsing the package. Do you by any chance know if it would work with the P20 Pro? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you very much in advance.

Dear @Arnova8G2 & @miniuser123,
I had S8 and you do fantastic job porting Pixel Xl 2 camera to all SD845 phones. And some other make port for LGV30 dual camera - rear camera and second wide angle camera.
Please make Pixel Xl 2 camera port for Huawei P20 Pro for 40MP, 10MP and camera zoom 3x, 5x.

isko01 said:
Dear @Arnova8G2 & @miniuser123,
I had S8 and you do fantastic job porting Pixel Xl 2 camera to all SD845 phones. And some other make port for LGV30 dual camera - rear camera and second wide angle camera.
Please make Pixel Xl 2 camera port for Huawei P20 Pro for 40MP, 10MP and camera zoom 3x, 5x.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It makes absolutely no sense to do 40MP. It's the inferior mode, and processing overhead would be insane for HDR, even with full optimisation (which you'll never see on a port). It wouldn't work.
Only 10MP makes sense.
5x is a hybrid zoom. You'd need the Huawei software. Google Camera currently has no such functionality. Not that it supports any optical zoom (3x) by default either.
You can perhaps hope for 10MP with working HDR+ and front camera. Anything else? I'd say it's completely unrealistic / unnecessary.
After the software updates, the only thing I'd really see Google Camera as being useful for is the front camera and / or for AOSP when that becomes stable on the P20 Pro. But by then, a working port of Huawei Camera on the P20/Pro is quite likely - or at least more likely, and certainly more desirable than a Google Camera port.

mudnightoil said:
It makes absolutely no sense to do 40MP. It's the inferior mode, and processing overhead would be insane for HDR, even with full optimisation (which you'll never see on a port). It wouldn't work.
Only 10MP makes sense.
5x is a hybrid zoom. You'd need the Huawei software. Google Camera currently has no such functionality. Not that it supports any optical zoom (3x) by default either.
You can perhaps hope for 10MP with working HDR+ and front camera. Anything else? I'd say it's completely unrealistic / unnecessary.
After the software updates, the only thing I'd really see Google Camera as being useful for is the front camera and / or for AOSP when that becomes stable on the P20 Pro. But by then, a working port of Huawei Camera on the P20/Pro is quite likely - or at least more likely, and certainly more desirable than a Google Camera port.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I am just hoping for the Front Camera to have the same Portrait Mode as the Google Camera as the Beauty Mode post-processing is through the roof even with it turned to zero. I am just hoping to use the Front Camera I have on the P20 to achieve the same Portrait result as I did from the Pixel 2 XL. Everything else about the P20 camera I can live with. Thank you.

Spacemanglam said:
Hello @Arnova8G2,
I saw your work with the Google Camera Mod for various phones and I just want to say impressive work! I am using the Huawei P20 Pro and absolutely hates the Front Camera functionality. Tried to download your file to use on my phone but was unable to do so. When I try downloading it is says there as a problem parsing the package. Do you by any chance know if it would work with the P20 Pro? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you very much in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes! Finally someone who has the same struggle as I have!
P20 pro is a pretty expensive phone and I am beginning to feel disappointed with the less than stellar quality of its front camera.
I know that its a fixed focus lens on the front but how come Gogle Pixel was able to implement a sharp shooter front camera with a fixed focus? To think that it has 24 Megapixels?!?! Such a scam

Archer Casio said:
Yes! Finally someone who has the same struggle as I have!
P20 pro is a pretty expensive phone and I am beginning to feel disappointed with the less than stellar quality of its front camera.
I know that its a fixed focus lens on the front but how come Gogle Pixel was able to implement a sharp shooter front camera with a fixed focus? To think that it has 24 Megapixels?!?! Such a scam
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think you understand what scam means.
Also, whilst not ideal, I suggest you learn how to work with fixed focus. You will not get bad results with it if you do, now that 'beauty' is in check.

mudnightoil said:
I don't think you understand what scam means.
Also, whilst not ideal, I suggest you learn how to work with fixed focus. You will not get bad results with it if you do, now that 'beauty' is in check.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi @mudnightoil,
sorry for the rather strong term that I used. But yes, I have been trying to learn some workarounds with a fixed focus front camera. It's just that, it's difficult to adjust because I was just so used to autofocus front cameras like Asus Selfie. I just feel like the 24 megapixel camera of the p20 pro is a wasted potential.
Another argument that I have is with Google Pixel's 8 mp fixed focus lens producing more vivid and sharper selfies than P20 pro's 24 mp.
Both the background and the foreground are sharp. Dynamic range is better! I mean come on! I really hope it could be fixed via software update very soon!
---------- Post added at 05:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:12 PM ----------
Archer Casio said:
Hi @mudnightoil,
sorry for the rather strong term that I used. But yes, I have been trying to learn some workarounds with a fixed focus front camera. It's just that, it's difficult to adjust because I was just so used to autofocus front cameras like Asus Selfie. I just feel like the 24 megapixel camera of the p20 pro is a wasted potential.
Another argument that I have is with Google Pixel's 8 mp fixed focus lens producing more vivid and sharper selfies than P20 pro's 24 mp.
Both the background and the foreground are sharp. Dynamic range is better! I mean come on! I really hope it could be fixed via software update very soon!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Update:
Other than the shortcomings of the front camera, I have no other complaints with the P20 pro.

Spacemanglam said:
Yes, I am just hoping for the Front Camera to have the same Portrait Mode as the Google Camera as the Beauty Mode post-processing is through the roof even with it turned to zero. I am just hoping to use the Front Camera I have on the P20 to achieve the same Portrait result as I did from the Pixel 2 XL. Everything else about the P20 camera I can live with. Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same issue here ...the rear cameras are great ..but the front camera beautification is just too agressive even when set to zero . A google camera mod with HDR+ in just 10mp for rear camera and portrait enabled on both the front and rear will be really helpful .

someone has any idea what's changed on this camera mod?
http://4pda.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=898279&view=findpost&p=72790522
Dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/61dj4t0ca716v7a/P20ProCamera-Magisk15+.zip?dl=1

starbase64 said:
someone has any idea what's changed on this camera mod?
http://4pda.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=898279&view=findpost&p=72790522
Dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/61dj4t0ca716v7a/P20ProCamera-Magisk15+.zip?dl=1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I saw that too, and curious what's changed in that. I assume that you need to be rooted to flash that?

starbase64 said:
someone has any idea what's changed on this camera mod?
http://4pda.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=898279&view=findpost&p=72790522
Dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/61dj4t0ca716v7a/P20ProCamera-Magisk15+.zip?dl=1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not a GCam port, that's to install the P20 Pro Camera software on a non-pro P20.

So far as I'm aware you'll need the libs to get it to work properly.
Tbh the pro has a monster camera set up.
The 40mp is more for landscape pics, the 10 for point and shoot.
the selfie cam has been great for me so far.
But then I've only had it since 11am 24th may so I'm sure I'll find some issues.

The rear cameras are great and on average they take better pictures than my Pixel 2. I also end up with pictures that I just otherwise would never have been able to capture with another cameraphone. There are some downsides though where I would love to use a hypothetical GCam port. Outdoor photography is a chore thanks to the auto "greenery" AI thing that cranks the saturation. The 10 MP auto mode also oversharpens like crazy. Pro mode is sometimes useful, but you lose things like HDR or aperture simulation which are lame tradeoffs.
The biggest issue for me though is the front camera, which is completely unusable thanks to the beauty mode that can't actually be fully disabled. I'm using Retrica right now which works pretty well but you lose the nice aperture/bokeh simulation of the P20 camera app. Small price to pay for a human looking face, but anyway that's mainly why I'm hoping for a GCam port.

I am very interested in development. Maybe it's possible.

dladz said:
So far as I'm aware you'll need the libs to get it to work properly.
Tbh the pro has a monster camera set up.
The 40mp is more for landscape pics, the 10 for point and shoot.
the selfie cam has been great for me so far.
But then I've only had it since 11am 24th may so I'm sure I'll find some issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've tested the 40MP on everything... it's fantastic. The detail I get out of each picture is a huge step up even from my old DSLR. Granted, I did not have an expensive lens, but the processing power on this phone easily surpasses that camera!

sarichter said:
I've tested the 40MP on everything... it's fantastic. The detail I get out of each picture is a huge step up even from my old DSLR. Granted, I did not have an expensive lens, but the processing power on this phone easily surpasses that camera!
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Lovely, perhaps the lineage ROM in the development section may be able to use it?

sarichter said:
I've tested the 40MP on everything... it's fantastic. The detail I get out of each picture is a huge step up even from my old DSLR. Granted, I did not have an expensive lens, but the processing power on this phone easily surpasses that camera!
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very unusual on fw 120 and previous
we get best results with 10mpx AI OFF
what do you set when you shot 40mpx?
Inviato dal mio CLT-L29 utilizzando Tapatalk

saturnspike said:
The rear cameras are great and on average they take better pictures than my Pixel 2. I also end up with pictures that I just otherwise would never have been able to capture with another cameraphone. There are some downsides though where I would love to use a hypothetical GCam port. Outdoor photography is a chore thanks to the auto "greenery" AI thing that cranks the saturation. The 10 MP auto mode also oversharpens like crazy. Pro mode is sometimes useful, but you lose things like HDR or aperture simulation which are lame tradeoffs.
The biggest issue for me though is the front camera, which is completely unusable thanks to the beauty mode that can't actually be fully disabled. I'm using Retrica right now which works pretty well but you lose the nice aperture/bokeh simulation of the P20 camera app. Small price to pay for a human looking face, but anyway that's mainly why I'm hoping for a GCam port.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also agree for the front camera pics quality

guybrush2099 said:
very unusual on fw 120 and previous
we get best results with 10mpx AI OFF
what do you set when you shot 40mpx?
Inviato dal mio CLT-L29 utilizzando Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The 10MP mode is superior in almost any setting. Hence why it's the default mode. That the 40MP mode is even exposed is mainly for marketing reasons.

mudnightoil said:
The 10MP mode is superior in almost any setting. Hence why it's the default mode. That the 40MP mode is even exposed is mainly for marketing reasons.
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That's not the case at all from my experience comparing 10 vs 40 vs 3x zoom in various situations.
In low light, 40mp is poor, but in well lit places, 40mp is far more detailed, less over-sharpened, and significantly nicer overall.
It's generally less processed, and HDR etc doesn't seem to be enabled on it, but it's certainly not inferior to 10mp in general, but is occasionally.
If you want to do any post processing, the 40mp is probably better in general... though I guess few would want to do this!

Continuous message "sharpening your photo please steady the device"

This is really frustrating but most of the time when I'm taking a photo I'm getting this message "sharpening your photo please steady the device". I thought it might be the Master AI so in turned that off... Still happens. Especially with low light shots or zoomed in shots even in bright light.
How the heck do I stop this from happening?? It's so frustrating!

It's when the camera combining the monochrome data to increase detail.
Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk

Is there no way of stopping this from happening?

quaium said:
Is there no way of stopping this from happening?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Use a different camera app or shoot RAW.
It's a baked in part of Huawei multi sensor processing.
Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk

Basically you can use another app, lose detail and lose the message.

It seems to be a bug in the camera software. It does not handle the telephoto zoom correctly and applies sharpening algorithms when not necessary.
Have a look at the report from Android Authority https://www.androidauthority.com/huawei-camera-software-867702/

paul678 said:
It seems to be a bug in the camera software. It does not handle the telephoto zoom correctly and applies sharpening algorithms when not necessary.
Have a look at the report from Android Authority https://www.androidauthority.com/huawei-camera-software-867702/
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Click to collapse
It's not a bug, it's a separate process from the unsharp mask algorithm in the jpg processing.
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orangecroc said:
It's not a bug, it's a separate process from the unsharp mask algorithm in the jpg processing.
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Click to collapse
I'm saying it's a bug because it should not run all processes when zooming with the telephoto. In Android Authority's samples you can see that the post processing seems to run like it is in digital zoom mode even if it's optical.

It's a totaly normal process, and you see the messages when the camera apllies HDR color correction to the photo. Other smartphones just say HDR during the photo saving, this one says this message. It's not a bug, and there's no way of disabling it. It's just NORMAL.
Sent from my Huawei P20 PRO

I understand this message to mean "Please wait while I ruin your photo."
I always get it (literally 100% of the time) when I'm using the 3x zoom and the result is always an absolutely hideous photo in which all detail has been completely destroyed. For some reason the resulting image is always 10MP, which makes me think it was taken using the 40MP sensor and binned down, however it's shot at f2.4 and the phone reports an 80mm equivalent focal length, which suggests the 3x zoom lens but that's an 8MP sensor... So just what the hell is going on? Here's an imgur album of a photo supposedly taken using the zoom lens in ideal photography conditions this morning. The light was very good. I used the Photo mode with AI master turned off, resolution set to 10MP in the settings, standard color setting, 4D predictive focus on.
Unfortunately I can't post links but go to imgur.com album /a/JEMOtHG.
It looked fine on the phone's screen but it looks hideous on a larger screen. Just look at the 100% crop - it would make a lovely watercolor painting. The photo has been sharpened to oblivion and completely ruined. The camera has retained highlights in the clouds to create an unrealistic, though beautiful IMO, cloudscape while blowing away highlights on the ships. The shadows on the trees in the foreground are mangled to the point that it looks like a single mass. This photo is unequivocally garbage.
In fact, 70% of the photos this phone takes look like total garbage. They're not just mediocre, they're bad. They look like enlarged and sharpened photos taken with an ancient, low-resolution digital camera. Maybe it's because I have no idea what the phone's actually doing with its hardware when I'm using it because the software is so bad? It just does stuff contrary to what I might expect based on the information provided at the time of the exposure and the result is invariably bad. I've tried every mode and had zero success in any mode.
Even when using the main sensor, if the lighting is slightly dim, out comes the sharpening and noise-reduction algorithm and out go your details. Even in situations where it's not really necessary, like in good indoor light, the phone goes mental with its post-processing. It even does it in broad daylight when there's a big difference in highlights and/or in the scene. If you have harsh, directional sunlight in one part of the scene, expect it to be sharpened to death.
I read all the glowing reviews and they leave me wondering whether everyone's crazy or whether I am. I really want to like this phone but the camera is 3 or 4 out of 10 so far. It makes me wonder whether Huawei's engineers have ever seen a photo before.
I'm inclined to return this phone. The camera is so bad that I'd rather go back to my Nexus 6P, which is 2.5 years old and takes effortlessly, consistently and predictably superior photos.

It keeps the detail when it says it on mine with 3x zoom.
I think maybe your technique is off?
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orangecroc said:
It keeps the detail when it says it on mine with 3x zoom.
I think maybe your technique is off? View attachment 4536191
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What technique do you propose? I don't see any options or means to remedy the problem. It seems to me that no matter what mode I shoot or what settings I toggle, I get images that are post-processed to oblivion when using the 3x zoom, and usually when using the main sensor too.
I'd love to hear what you're doing that's giving you results you're happy with. My guess is that you're also on a newer build - I've got the North American variant CLT-L04 8.1.0.109(C792).
Incidentally, your attachment is scaled down to a small fraction of its original size so it doesn't really demonstrate much.

The 109 firmware is pretty old by now, things got better with the camera when you run firmware 128 or the latest 131. Still things could be improved but it is now better than in the early days of firmware releases.
/ Magnus

This is taken with 5x zoom by hand on auto. I see no problem at all. In fact it's outstanding if consider its taken by hand.
Sent from my Huawei P20 PRO

I definitely think it's your firmware. Things have improved pretty dramatically since your version.

Well that sucks, since no newer firmware is available to me yet. I find it hard to believe Huawei would ship a premium photography-centric device with software that's so defective it can hardly take a photo worth keeping, or that it's selling functionally defective devices with this firmware 2 months after launch. Then again, maybe I shouldn't be too surprised.
I guess I'm at the right place if I want to solve this problem myself but I think I might just take it back and not void my warranty or trouble myself any further. This is an excellent phone and I want to keep it but I'm disappointed - photography should have been the first thing they got right and they fumbled.
Too bad because the specs are brilliant and the cameras are awesome in terms of the hardware. In practice, though, it always comes down to software. Thanks for your help, all.

Build 110
Natural colours and AI off to reduce the amount of processing.
When using zoom, make sure you wait for the stabilisation to start and tuck your elbows in. Where possible use the software shutter button over the volume rocker as it causes less movement.
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inepty, I second your remarks. That's what I have experienced, too, so far, and I don't think it got much better on .128 which I am using.
A few things to keep in mind:
- The 3x zoom only kicks in if you do not focus to anything closer to 1-1.5 metres. If you do, it will use the digital zoom which looks crappy.
- If you use Auto, Portrait or HDR mode, the images WILL be heavily processed
- If you use Aperture or Pro mode, they will NOT. I am so far happy with the results of these two modes.
- The monochrome mode seems not to suffer from the watercolor effects and the overprocessed look, even though the sensor is smaller
- Turn off the AI. It's pointless. It's optimized for poppy instagram style pictures. If you want this, go ahead. If you want more natural pictures, turn it off.
- Try different camera apps like Open Camera. You will of course lose fancy stuff like HDR, Zoom etc., but the resulting images are much more natural without any oversharpening or watercolor effects. You will have some grain, tho (because no noise reduction).
- The Zoom is a bit finicky. Sometimes, it gives me really good, clear and beautiful results, sometimes it looks like a crappy digital zoom picture, even though the exifs state that the zoom lens was used. Not sure what's the problem behind this.
- The night mode is a bit of a tech gimmick. Yep, it shoots photos at night but they are really blurry and lack details. If you resize them to 1000px, they will look great, but they are not made for larger resolutions or big screens. I know, a blurry picture is better than no picture at all, but I wouldn't use it the way Huawei seems to advertise it (Hey, take stunning city photos at night!) because the results are messy, unless resized to a stamp.
- And finally: The raw files are quite good most of the time. For pictures that are important (Aka: Photography instead of documentation), it's probably best to use the raw file and develop this.

all the pugs said:
inepty, I second your remarks. That's what I have experienced, too, so far, and I don't think it got much better on .128 which I am using.
A few things to keep in mind:
- The 3x zoom only kicks in if you do not focus to anything closer to 1-1.5 metres. If you do, it will use the digital zoom which looks crappy.
- If you use Auto, Portrait or HDR mode, the images WILL be heavily processed
- If you use Aperture or Pro mode, they will NOT. I am so far happy with the results of these two modes.
- The monochrome mode seems not to suffer from the watercolor effects and the overprocessed look, even though the sensor is smaller
- Turn off the AI. It's pointless. It's optimized for poppy instagram style pictures. If you want this, go ahead. If you want more natural pictures, turn it off.
- Try different camera apps like Open Camera. You will of course lose fancy stuff like HDR, Zoom etc., but the resulting images are much more natural without any oversharpening or watercolor effects. You will have some grain, tho (because no noise reduction).
- The Zoom is a bit finicky. Sometimes, it gives me really good, clear and beautiful results, sometimes it looks like a crappy digital zoom picture, even though the exifs state that the zoom lens was used. Not sure what's the problem behind this.
- The night mode is a bit of a tech gimmick. Yep, it shoots photos at night but they are really blurry and lack details. If you resize them to 1000px, they will look great, but they are not made for larger resolutions or big screens. I know, a blurry picture is better than no picture at all, but I wouldn't use it the way Huawei seems to advertise it (Hey, take stunning city photos at night!) because the results are messy, unless resized to a stamp.
- And finally: The raw files are quite good most of the time. For pictures that are important (Aka: Photography instead of documentation), it's probably best to use the raw file and develop this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you select 3x zoom it uses that lens.
It doesn't use digital zoom just because you're close to the subject.
The stabilisation struggles to engage on close subject, so this may be the issue you're encountering.
These are 1x then 3x then 5x then 10x
Even the 10x digital zoom doesn't look as bad as people seem to be making out.
All are auto, standard colour, no AI in poor light.
Build 110
Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk

orangecroc said:
If you select 3x zoom it uses that lens.
It doesn't use digital zoom just because you're close to the subject.
The stabilisation struggles to engage on close subject, so this may be the issue you're encountering.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, it doesn't work that easily, at least on my device. You can select 3x zoom and still get a digital zoom image not shot with the tele lens. Try it! Try close distance and fast burts, you will see it yourself.
And please do post full resolutions of your images. Anything moderately sharp can look good at this small size.

Themes / Apps / Mods Samsung Expert Raw app

FYI, just noticed the release of the Expert Raw app by Samsung, supporting all lenses for the S21 Ultra. Editing can be done through Adobe Lighthouse for Samsung.
The app is release in South Korea, but als available through mirror sites.
More info here

thanks.

Manual controls over the telephoto lenses are awesome. However sadly "RAW" here is used loosely since there's built in noise reduction that cannot be adjusted.
Top is "Expert RAW" DNG to JPG with just adjusting brightness. No noise reduction is applied and yet there is very little detail. Bottom picture is just stock camera night mode. More noise, but also more detail.
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I'm testing Expert RAW now and mus confirm, noise reduction exist even on DNG file. You suggest to use other app?

I'll test it tonight

Right after downgrading to 11 I saw this post. Back to 12... Again and, yes, it's True. This is NOT pure RAW. I posted 3 photos down here so you can see what's going on. I apologize in advance for this long post but I wanted to show the actual view on the user's screen.
1st: Expert raw actually takes a RAW photo (notice the high chroma noise) but immediately processes it, to reduce the noise as seen with the yellow progress circle in the lower part of the screen.
2nd: after processing, the photo looks like this
3rd: after opening the photo in Photoshop Express, it looks like this:
To the untrained eye, this looks like such a great, clean image. But this is clearly, not RAW and it is not what users asked for.
Honestly, Samsung is frustrating. They give you the feeling that they are listening to their customers. We ask them for oranges and they give us watermellons. My theory is that they absolutely know they have mediocre sensors in their flagships and do not want to risk their image by letting you see the RAW capability of their camera.

Randi03 said:
To the untrained eye, this looks like such a great, clean image. But this is clearly, not RAW and it is not what users asked for.
Honestly, Samsung is frustrating. They give you the feeling that they are listening to their customers. We ask them for oranges and they give us watermellons. My theory is that they absolutely know they have mediocre sensors in their flagships and do not want to risk their image by letting you see the RAW capability of their camera.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sad but True. Higher ISO level = more agressive processing.
This example with some lightroom touches from x10 tele captured on ISO 50 but on tripod gimbal with 1/15s time.
Glad that they gave us full control at all, that's the most important thing, but they also had to give something back.

More examples with little lightroom postpro. All lenses and this time all captured from hand. Expert RAW creates multiple ammount of photos to some kind of HDR RAW. Anyway theare are much better than photos from standard camera app. Less processing but still exist.

Randi03 said:
Right after downgrading to 11 I saw this post. Back to 12... Again and, yes, it's True. This is NOT pure RAW. I posted 3 photos down here so you can see what's going on. I apologize in advance for this long post but I wanted to show the actual view on the user's screen.
1st: Expert raw actually takes a RAW photo (notice the high chroma noise) but immediately processes it, to reduce the noise as seen with the yellow progress circle in the lower part of the screen. View attachment 54668372nd: after processing, the photo looks like this
View attachment 5466841
3rd: after opening the photo in Photoshop Express, it looks like this:
View attachment 5466843
To the untrained eye, this looks like such a great, clean image. But this is clearly, not RAW and it is not what users asked for.
Honestly, Samsung is frustrating. They give you the feeling that they are listening to their customers. We ask them for oranges and they give us watermellons. My theory is that they absolutely know they have mediocre sensors in their flagships and do not want to risk their image by letting you see the RAW capability of their camera.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol that's the thing though, the sensors aren't mediocre. Having a Snapdragon with access to telephoto RAW for a while now, I can definitely say that they're pretty good albeit a little soft and lack contrast. I think it's that Samsung's algorithm is still problematic and they are still catering to the common user who they think is scared of any signs of noise.
Here's a zoomed in picture of a 10x GCam RAW zoomed in with Photoshop Express without noise reduction
And here's the Expert RAW version

Wow, the Gcam looks very nice. That's exactly what I hope to get out of the Exynos someday )

Expert raw seems to be the answer to apple's proraw or I can't remember the exact name. Basically it's 6 raw shots stacked together to help reduce the amount of noise and increase dynamic range over a single raw since these phones are usually meant to have lots of internal post precessing after the raw shot to look good. I was pretty excited when I read apple had come up with it. Turned out to be disappointing. Looks like Samsung's answer isn't better either.
It shows the difficulty of processing and stacking multiple images. I'll stick to my gcam with snap dragon as I'm super happy with it. 10x is by far my favorite lens to take portraits, never use the fake portrait mode, even in 3x it can't beat gcam 10x. Google processing is just that good. If pixel 6 pro had a 10x periscope I was probably switching phones... Will have to wait some more

PhilMorin said:
Expert raw seems to be the answer to apple's proraw or I can't remember the exact name. Basically it's 6 raw shots stacked together to help reduce the amount of noise and increase dynamic range over a single raw since these phones are usually meant to have lots of internal post precessing after the raw shot to look good. I was pretty excited when I read apple had come up with it. Turned out to be disappointing. Looks like Samsung's answer isn't better either.
It shows the difficulty of processing and stacking multiple images. I'll stick to my gcam with snap dragon as I'm super happy with it. 10x is by far my favorite lens to take portraits, never use the fake portrait mode, even in 3x it can't beat gcam 10x. Google processing is just that good. If pixel 6 pro had a 10x periscope I was probably switching phones... Will have to wait some more
Click to expand...
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what GCAM mod are you using btw?

yoyosquad said:
what GCAM mod are you using btw?
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Arnova, one of the first version that was released. I've been really happy with it so haven't bothered updating to one of the latest version that beserker has posted.

PhilMorin said:
Arnova, one of the first version that was released. I've been really happy with it so haven't bothered updating to one of the latest version that beserker has posted.
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Click to collapse
if that's not a problem, can you write us exact version of this release?

ski.ign said:
if that's not a problem, can you write us exact version of this release?
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Click to collapse
Gcam build number is 8.1.101, might still be available from the links in beserker gcam for snapdragon thread

test

How can I install it? It's a zip file

Hello, i have question - how LOSELESS JPEG function works? Can You share some photos without editing it in external editors like lightroom? I'm interested how jpg from expert camera looks like.

I don't see any different between this camera end the stock camera

Hi, I am not sure what you mean by lossless jpeg. I couldn't find a setting for this. Here you can find 6 JPEG photos. 3 with stock, 3 with expert. All settings (ISO, Exposure, Focus distance, White balance) should be exactly the same as I have manually selected them while keeping the phone on a tripod. Auto HDR was disabled too. https://we.tl/t-WSBZjBGaNB
Also, I am on the Exynos variant.