Related
So, it seems we've hit the barrier
Nexus S runs stable @ 1300 Mhz (1.3 Ghz)
unfortunately prolong use of this speed raised the CPU/Battery temperature to over 60c +
that's a bit too high for comfort
the number might be small
but actual usage performance is blasting fast
a full system restore (330+ apps) using TitaniumBackup took roughly 10 minutes @ 1300 Mhz
the same full system restore at stock 1000 Mhz it took twice as long for TitaniumBackup to complete the restore
so, now the real challenge is to find some one that can provide us some water cooling kits to install into our phones, so that we can clock the crap out of it without it overheating to death
AllGamer said:
so, now the real challenge is to find some one that can provide us some water cooling kits to install into our phones, so that we can clock the crap out of it without it overheating to death
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now that I would like to see! but it would make the phone uncomfortably bulky I fear nano-technology water cooling? Anything's possible right
Edit: those are nice times though! Considering it's not even double the 1ghz, but it chops times in half... I might give some overclocking a shot now!
Honestly im surprised we havent seen any time of cooling built into say the phones back cover as a heat sink.
Maybe in the future. but as it gets smaller the power draw gets smaller and the heat generated drops.
so who knows. its just exponential
slowz3r said:
Honestly im surprised we havent seen any time of cooling built into say the phones back cover as a heat sink.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think power is one thing but with the poor battery life our phones have, chewing battery amps as heat is a waste generally. Energy efficiency is what they are trying to achieve, not a pocket warmer Not that i'm against overclocking though.
Hey guys, I have read many reviews where people complain about overheating and excessive amount of heat from the phone localized in one area. Based on the tear down provided by ifixit, there looks to be no EMI shield over the CPU/memory chip area unless it was removed before the photo was taken. But either way, I see that when assembled there is the metal backing to the LCD directly above it which would really dissipate the heat well.
Why not purchase some thin thermal pads and apply as necessary to transfer the heat to the metal frame directly above it. Even if there is an EMI shield over it, open it up (unless it's soldered making it harder) and put the thin thermal pad in there and on the outside of the shield.
Seems like a very simple solution to fix a pretty big problem. I don't have my hands on a Nexus 4 and am unsure if I will in the future but if I ever do I will definitely try this and provide results and instructions on how to do the same.
Or LG could design the phone better.
johnny13oi said:
Hey guys, I have read many reviews where people complain about overheating and excessive amount of heat from the phone localized in one area. Based on the tear down provided by ifixit, there looks to be no EMI shield over the CPU/memory chip area unless it was removed before the photo was taken. But either way, I see that when assembled there is the metal backing to the LCD directly above it which would really dissipate the heat well.
Why not purchase some thin thermal pads and apply as necessary to transfer the heat to the metal frame directly above it. Even if there is an EMI shield over it, open it up (unless it's soldered making it harder) and put the thin thermal pad in there and on the outside of the shield.
Seems like a very simple solution to fix a pretty big problem. I don't have my hands on a Nexus 4 and am unsure if I will in the future but if I ever do I will definitely try this and provide results and instructions on how to do the same.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is not a bad idea actually, but i'm not too sure if the display will soffer about it
If only had a n4 to test it XD (i have some thermal pad lying around)
Venekor said:
Or LG could design the phone better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
InvalidUsername said:
Venekor said:
Or LG could design the phone better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We hack phones to try and make them work better on this website, did you know that?
Venekor said:
Or LG could design the phone better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While I agree with you, thermal pads are relatively cheap and the concerns about pressure on the LCD by another poster would be fine as long as you use a thinner thermal pad that doesn't compress too much after application. I have various thickness of thermal pads so as long as you use the correct one to apply just the right amount of pressure I can only see a large benefit from something so simple.
It would require opening the device and I am unsure if there are warranty voiding stickers in the phone. Some people are really happy with the phone and this is the only problem so I am merely just trying to provide a solution to the one problem remaining.
Thermal pads are to conduct heat from one surface (CPU) to another (heatsink). I can't say I agree with using the screen as a heatsink.
johnny13oi said:
While I agree with you, thermal pads are relatively cheap and the concerns about pressure on the LCD by another poster would be fine as long as you use a thinner thermal pad that doesn't compress too much after application. I have various thickness of thermal pads so as long as you use the correct one to apply just the right amount of pressure I can only see a large benefit from something so simple.
It would require opening the device and I am unsure if there are warranty voiding stickers in the phone. Some people are really happy with the phone and this is the only problem so I am merely just trying to provide a solution to the one problem remaining.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wasn't talking of the pressure but the heat that the backplade dissipate, maybe can damage the screen
I doubt it will help,
someone pointed out that the only trigger for thermal throttling is the battery temperature,
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=34224171&postcount=85
BakaPhoenix said:
I wasn't talking of the pressure but the heat that the backplade dissipate, maybe can damage the screen
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, i would guess the space there is to keep the heat from the screen...
If this phone runs hot it is most likely due to the glass acting as an insulator. Is there any venting anywhere? I bet much of the thermal issue could be solved with a well placed vent..
sent via xda premium with nexus 7-Xbox live-loneleppard add me
While I can see concerns about damaging the LCD due to the heat but I imagine heat spread over the entire surface of the phone is much better than localizing a much more intense heat in a smaller area. LCDs can withstand a decent amount of heat and a small arm chip spreading heat over the entire surface of the phone would be very minimal to no effect on the LCD. I can see great potential for damage allowing the heat to be confined to a small area (just the CPU and RAM sitting on each other) with no heat spreader or heat sink.
Well I guess we won't be overclocking this phone anytime time soon. And you know I was really hoping I could finally fry me some bacon strips on my way to work.
johnny13oi said:
While I can see concerns about damaging the LCD due to the heat but I imagine heat spread over the entire surface of the phone is much better than localizing a much more intense heat in a smaller area. LCDs can withstand a decent amount of heat and a small arm chip spreading heat over the entire surface of the phone would be very minimal to no effect on the LCD. I can see great potential for damage allowing the heat to be confined to a small area (just the CPU and RAM sitting on each other) with no heat spreader or heat sink.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Air is a very good thermal isolator, i read that many desktop ips lcs have a maximum teamp. of 35/40 C° so if if the cpu heats a lot it can create problems. I don't know how much is the max temp that this ips can withstand tough.
BakaPhoenix said:
Air is a very good thermal isolator, i read that many desktop ips lcs have a maximum teamp. of 35/40 C° so if if the cpu heats a lot it can create problems. I don't know how much is the max temp that this ips can withstand tough.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really think this whole heat thing is a kernel issue at the moment. I remember owning the one x since very 1.26 or was it an earlier one? Either way, the phone would really get VERY hot. After a few updates i barely felt the heat. Maybe when playing games or whatever, all in all the updates solved the issue. I think google will manage to sort it out, i can't imagine them being that stupid.
I guess if you are concerned with the LCD becoming damaged then you could just put the thermal pad on the other side to make the whole motherboard (minus spring contacts) contact the glass back and spread the heat outside including the battery.
And yes air is a very good thermal insulator so all the heat is just getting trapped inside the phone. Gotta use some thermal pads to conduct that heat to a panel exposed to the outside.
These are all just suggestions that I would do if I were to have one in my hands right now.
johnny13oi said:
I guess if you are concerned with the LCD becoming damaged then you could just put the thermal pad on the other side to make the whole motherboard (minus spring contacts) contact the glass back and spread the heat outside including the battery.
And yes air is a very good thermal insulator so all the heat is just getting trapped inside the phone. Gotta use some thermal pads to conduct that heat to a panel exposed to the outside.
These are all just suggestions that I would do if I were to have one in my hands right now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The bottom line is if the SOC or N4 design is flawed internally which created thermal throttling, then there won't be much help for inserting thermal pads. I have tried this with HD2 when it had thermal runaway. There was a huge thread figuring out how to cure it by many methods as far as putting the motherboard in the oven to melt the soldering at exact time and temperature. The thermal pads method only decreased a few Fahrenheit which wasn't enough to cure if there was a thermal problems. My HD2's SOC was made by Qualcomm. Something definitely don't add up with bad benchmarks scores, thermal problems. Could future updates cure this? Only time can tell.
I've done something similar with my OCed Samsung i9000, but instead of using thermal pads, I used thermal paste. Similar to the Nexus 4 the cpu IC is sandwiched between the PCB and the metal chassis. The metal chassis becomes a massive heatsink for the CPU which dropped my CPU temp. by 10oC (~17oF) at maximum load.
After 9 months of use there hasn't been any damage or deterioration of the display screen (AMOLED).
Details can be found in the i9000 forum.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1605517
When I receive my Nexus 4 I plan to do something similar.
The only problem i can see with this method is warranty. I'm 100% sure that even if there is no warranty void stickers on the screws they won't accept to fix a phone that has been tinkered with
And try to wipe thermal paste without leaving any trace you will fail
Capt.PP said:
The bottom line is if the SOC or N4 design is flawed internally which created thermal throttling, then there won't be much help for inserting thermal pads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is not flawed as such, it is just overdimensioned.
In essence it is a double APQ8060A + quicker (more power hungry) GPU + additional management circuitry. So it should not surprise, that under full load (benchmarks) it burns through more than double of the usual dual core Krait phone power. While having similar dimensions/power dissipation capacity.
In their marketing Qualcomm positioned this SoC for Tablets. Now you have it in the phone. Is it bad? Not really, full power quadcore tasks is not a realistic task for a phone. And for a second or two (after this it does not matter anymore since your phone "lags") the existing cooling is perfectly adequate.
One thing where Qualcomm/LG/Google could do better are the GPU drivers. Which currently seem badly tuned.
Post available in PDF [v1.1]
So it is a fact that Nexus 4 SoC throttles pretty often and even if it does not remove anything to this phone, it is one of its particularity compared to other phones using APQ8064 that are not known to throttle so strongly. So, question is why?
Symptoms
So first of all, what is thermal throttling, and what does it has for consequences for your Nexus 4 ?
Quick explanation is that when a chip (CPU, GPU or in our case a SoC) reach a limit temperature, it will reduce its frequency to reduce heat and temperature. For a more complete description, check Wiki.
Keep in mind that with or without throttling, the Snapdragon S4 in your N4 remains one of the quickest SoC on the market. However, it can affect performances on eavy duty applications like 3D games. Better than a long description, check below graph.
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So lets try to find from where this thermal throttling does come from;
After having a look at Ifixit teardown, I was pretty surprised by the low thermal inertia of my phone and the heat concentration under stress situations (mainly located on the right of the back camera). It looked to me pretty strange, especially after seeing following pictures;
Indeed, after “mentally returning” the 2 pictures, you understand that SoC is facing display and should be spread its heat on the whole grey frame.
So I decided to dismount my own Nexus 4, and performed some measurements with a calliper. I found the following;
Which is quite a surprise if you consider that the chips height is almost the same;
In other words, the EMI shield (left) may come in contact with the frame (in the 1mm depth pocket) while the APQ8064/DRAM Stack (centre) may remain isolated (no contact in the 1,5mm pocket). This is pretty sad if you consider that the below frame appears not to be plastic material but to be made of light weighted metallic alloy (Aluminium and/or Magnesium) and could be used as heatsink.
I won’t overflowed you with tons of pictures but if you look carefully at Ifixit teardown you will also notice that motherboard is pretty thermally insulated from the metallic frame, while at the same time it is pretty well thermally coupled to the battery with bronze housings/threads and wide copper band;
(Please note the 2 battery max temperatures, 40 or 60°C?)
So what do all these pictures show? That mainboard may evacuate its heat through the metallic bridge to the battery while it ‘should’ evacuate it through the metallic frame.
Diagnostic
After several stress test runs, it seem that Nexus 4 tries to keep its battery below 40°C, so it downclocks from 1512Mhz to 1242Mhz when reaching ~37°C and from 1242Mhz to 1134Mhz when hitting ~39°C, while it may completely shutdown when battery reach 60°C.
So after all these founding I made a small quick tendency study;
So, no need to be a genius to understand what is happening, the “insulated” motherboard spreads its heat to the battery which behaves like a heat capacitor all this through the ‘metallic bridge’. Unfortunately, battery thermal sensor is between heat source and heat capacitor.
The cure
So I first tried to apply some thermal paste (a lot! );
Which lead to an obvious result as you can hardly fill a 0.5mm gap with thermal paste;
So as second try I used a small piece of copper to fill the gap (Pre-installation pictures only for showing copper piece dimensions);
I used stability test to stress CPU and observed time before it throttles first @1242Mhz and then @1134Mhz. Please note that I throttling appear to happen when battery sensor reach 37°C. (EDIT: or when SoC reach 60°C)
As a result I obtained following delays before throttling; (EDIT: Other users results added)
Even the thermal ‘pad’ solution, despite its bad efficiency, induces a significant improvement, which gives credits to previous diagnostic/explanation.
Concerning the ‚copper solution, it seems that it solves completely the shutdown problem;
The asymptotic temperature appears to be below 50°C (it was ~41°C after ~15min).
We can also notice that phone temperature surface is more uniform, and hot spots almost disappeared.
Bottom line
So is it ideal solution to solve N4 throttling?
For sure not, because it does not completely remove throttling problem, but at least gives you much more headroom before it happens (especially under real world applications). Not to forget that the battery is deeply glued to the frame so it may collect heat pretty well, but at least battery sensor will now reports a more realistic temperature and not any more battery PCB one.
It also may increase cooling capabilities, as with this mod, you use the complete surface of the phone to cool down (front, back and even sides as frame goes at edges).
In other words, this mod allows you to use your whole phone heat capacity, which increases time before throttling. Using it with undervolting soft mod may bring you the best results.
I hope this could be useful.
Doing the Mod
_ Careful!!! Disassembly Nexus 4 is not difficult, as long as you keep cool, you have proper tools and enough time. Please do not forget to put back the black plastic cover before screwing the motherboard again, however you may damage your screen! (check Jiia posts)
_ Dimensions of the pocket in the aluminium/magnesium frame is about 15mm x 15mm x 0.5mm (with corner rounding ~0.25mm). The APQ8064 chip itself has smaller dimensions, more in the 13mm x 13mm range. So "perfect safe dimensions" would be 14.5mm x 14.5mm x 0.5mm for the pad, if it is a solid (metallic) one. Be careful and try to keep your shim as flat as possible to avoid any stress after montage. For sure you have more flexibility with a soft one (thermal pad, graphite...).
_ Concerning material; if we remain IRL (forget diamonds!) a list of possible material (with decreasing efficiency), may look likes:
graphite foil, Silver/Copper shim, aluminium shim, (most) other metal shim, thermal pad/paste, thermal tape.
Graphite foil: may give the better performances, but may be difficult to supply (not so expensive, but companies sale usually only big quantities).
Copper shim: DIY may not that easy (0.5mm is easy to bend), but you can buy finish products.
Aluminium shim: relative easy to supply and to manufacture (scissor may work), with very close performance than copper.
Other metal shim: may be the easiest to find (ask your local garage mechanic). Lower performance than copper or aluminium but better than pad (steel family). Check thermal conductivity for other possibilities (Bronze, brass, zinc...)
_ Where to find/buy;
Graphite Foil. or on Ebay (careful, Inches)
0.5mm Copper pads on ebay, or on ebay...
0.5mm Aluminium sheet. also on ebay
Thanks to all the regulars and helpful contributors to this post
awesome find. you might want to correct the title to say "Investigating"
praveenmarkandu said:
awesome find. you might want to correct the title to say "Investigating"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1.
When I read the title, I thought its one of the "Calling all Devs ... $200 etc etc thread" lol
I've lots of money to put in .
I also wanted to correct harDmod but I do not find where to edit title.
EDIT: I found it (go advanced), but edition is blocked for me.
Nice!
What about using a .5mm thermal pad as those used for transferring heat from gpu ram to waterblocks?
praveenmarkandu said:
awesome find. you might want to correct the title to say "Investigating"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
troun2000 said:
I've lots of money to put in .
I also wanted to correct harDmod but I do not find where to edit title.
EDIT: I found it (go advanced), but edition is blocked for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think you can edit the title. The post can be edited though.
While that makes perfect sense, problem and the solution, what if LG actually designed it this way and had their reason to not directly "connect" it to the frame? Either way, nice work for spotting this!
And also which hardware rev do you have? Something like this could be "easily" solved by LG with a different hardware rev, for example with a thermal pad (like the ones in GPU memory and stuff like that).
troun2000 said:
(Please note the 2 battery max temperatures, 40 or 60°C?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
140°F and 60°C are the same.
narta said:
Nice!
What about using a .5mm thermal pad as those used for transferring heat from gpu ram to waterblocks?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you will get similar results to the ones I had using thermal paste. Pre-applied thermal pad are foreseen to be 'compressed' (they are only thick thermal paste), while the one you can cut with scissors have a 'foam' structure which is not as efficient as 'bulk' material.
At least it may be better than stock but not as good as the copper piece. Why not trying to use aluminium sheet? (light, 0,5mm sheet can be cut using scissors, high thermal conductivity)
Peter1856 said:
While that makes perfect sense, problem and the solution, what if LG actually designed it this way and had their reason to not directly "connect" it to the frame? Either way, nice work for spotting this!
And also which hardware rev do you have? Something like this could be "easily" solved by LG with a different hardware rev, for example with a thermal pad (like the ones in GPU memory and stuff like that).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fair question, I also had it; why LG engineers designed it like this (as they are for sure not idiots and that I do not pretend to teach them their work)? I do not know. For me, the very unsatisfying but most probable answer is that a thermal pad was foreseen (there is a dedicated pocket!) but abandoned.
How do I check Hardware revision?
Rusty! said:
140°F and 60°C are the same.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried to use not too high resolution pictures, but if you check IfixIt pictures you will notice that both are mentioned.
My guess is that 40°C may refer to long term usability temperature (optimal Lithium battery temperature is ~20°C), while 60°C is more an ultimate 'survival' temperature before you seriously damage it.
You've misread the battery blurb
The picture shows both 140°F and 60°C (which is the same temperature), but not 40°C.
Rusty! said:
You've misread the battery blurb
The picture shows both 140°F and 60°C (which is the same temperature), but not 40°C.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes in Caution headlines, but you also have a logo showing 40°C/104°F.
Anyway that was not really my point .
Re: Nexus 4; Investing thermal throttling [HarMod]
So, would it be possible to put a thermal pad where it was originally supposed to be?
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
Re: Nexus 4; Investing thermal throttling [HarMod]
troun2000 said:
Yes in Caution headlines, but you also have a logo showing 40°C/104°F.
Anyway that was not really my point .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh yeah, I completely missed that logo, and I treble checked the image to make sure. D'oh, sorry!
40°C can't be it's max temp, so I wonder what it's referring to...
i cant help wondering that this design was infact intentional.....
especially when there have been a lot of people having issues with yellow spots on the screen when the phone gets hot. This is maybe a reason to keep heat away from the back of the screen where the backplate is located.
i could be wrong though.
Either way, this is some great work by the OP!:good:
troun2000 said:
How do I check Hardware revision?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By booting into bootloader. Volume down and power button to boat into bootloader
Ya Mudda said:
So, would it be possible to put a thermal pad where it was originally supposed to be?
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes for sure, you can do it, but as already said, my guess is that bulk material is better. For a few $ you can get aluminium sheet that may give you much better performances (with two drops of thermal paste).
Opening for the first time a smarphone is quite stressfull, but this N4 is quite easy.
Rusty! said:
Oh yeah, I completely missed that logo, and I treble checked the image to make sure. D'oh, sorry!
40°C can't be it's max temp, so I wonder what it's referring to...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NOP
troun2000 said:
My guess is that 40°C may refer to long term usability temperature (optimal Lithium battery temperature is ~20°C), while 60°C is more an ultimate 'survival' temperature before you seriously damage it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Eclipse_Droid said:
i cant help wondering that this design was infact intentional.....
especially when there have been a lot of people having issues with yellow spots on the screen when the phone gets hot. This is maybe a reason to keep heat away from the back of the screen where the backplate is located.
i could be wrong though.
Either way, this is some great work by the OP!:good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for thumb up!
I did not knew about these yellow spots and screen problems.
However I would say that with this mod, average screen temperature may be for sure higher, but I am pretty sure that its maximum temperature may be lower as you spread the heat on much bigger surfaces (if you prefer, temperature gradient may be lower with mod).
On last test, after 15min, battery (which is deeply glued to the frame) sensor reported ~41°C, I really do not think that screen may have seen temperature higher than 45°C.
So what is the best for lifespan; 10 pixels @55°C and 1 billion @25°C or 1 million of pixels @40°C ? I do not know.
stardusk said:
By booting into bootloader. Volume down and power button to boat into bootloader
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
:good: So it seems I have a Rev11.
Can you please run quadrant on your N4? I'm curious what sort of results you will get.
Re: Nexus 4; Investigating thermal throttling [HardMod]
sirbagin said:
Can you please run quadrant on your N4? I'm curious what sort of results you will get.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
I think you are in the wrong thread, here there is some quadrant benchs: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=33550610, about at the end of the thread...
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
I just bought my Nexus 4 about 3 weeks ago, and noticed that it get considerably hot, and I mean, Reallyyyy hot, even when im not using.
So I've been trying out several roms and kernels and finally found the perfect solution and thought I should share it with everyone out there facing the same issue.
Just flash the latest stable version of CyanogenMod, and do not flash any extra kernels with it, leave it as it is, and notice the difference, it doesnt even heat up that much anymore, not even with extreme gaming.
Another tip, if u have touch control, or wave control installed, make sure they arnt working in the background as they keep the alot of sensors working even while the screen is off.
Just thought i'd share this.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
problem is, threads like this keep continuing the falsity that the n4 has an overheating issue, when really it does not. its supposed to heat up with use, every similar device does, many even warmer then the n4. my question to you is, what temperatures did your nexus 4 reach that you are saying it "overheated"? cpu temp? battery temp? if it actually overheats, theres a safety mechanism in the device that will shut it down so it can cool off. plus, the n4 has that glass back, that makes it "feel" hotter than it actually is. if it had a plastic, carbon fiber, or metal back, you wouldnt really feel it.
also, very important, what is the air temperature around you?
simms22 said:
problem is, threads like this keep continuing the falsity that the n4 has an overheating issue, when really it does not. its supposed to heat up with use, every similar device does, many even warmer then the n4. my question to you is, what temperatures did your nexus 4 reach that you are saying it "overheated"? cpu temp? battery temp? if it actually overheats, theres a safety mechanism in the device that will shut it down so it can cool off. plus, the n4 has that glass back, that makes it "feel" hotter than it actually is. if it had a plastic, carbon fiber, or metal back, you wouldnt really feel it.
also, very important, what is the air temperature around you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This.
Guys, just google any smartphone powered by dual+ core+overheating problem+xda and I assure you will find similar threads. The last device I didn't feel much heat on was galaxy r with tegra2 1ghz. Everything more powerful than that was noticeably warmer. But honestly I really don't think that N4 gets warmer than my old S2.
Yeah temperature around you is very important. Let's say you ride the bus on hot sunny day and check some websites. It's not browsing itself that causes overheating, but the combination of few factors. The device is actually already warmer than usual when you take it out of the pocket.
If the phone was overheating, it would turn off. Yes, it gets warm, but not as warm as you think. You only notice it because it has a glass back. Mine isn't getting any hotter than my old nexus s. Under heavy use, it doesn't go above 45C, which is an OK temp.
From a Nexus 4 bathing in Jelly Beans
To all three responses above me:
Fine it might not overheat to the point of melting or burning or even getting damaged but it does reach throttle temps and get uncomfortable to touch at times. Both of these are issues. Your phone should not be too hot to keep on your ear during a conversation, nor make your palm sweat excessively from holding it. It would also be ideal if your quad phone 1.5GHz phone stayed at 1.5GHz when under load. If it is forced to go below that, there is a good reason for threads like these.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
My nexus 4 reached up to 77C. It never shut off or anything. I called Google and they said as long as everything still works its fine. I thought it was a lame answer but we will see. Battery got up to 56C.
younix258 said:
To all three responses above me:
Fine it might not overheat to the point of melting or burning or even getting damaged but it does reach throttle temps and get uncomfortable to touch at times. Both of these are issues. Your phone should not be too hot to keep on your ear during a conversation, nor make your palm sweat excessively from holding it. It would also be ideal if your quad phone 1.5GHz phone stayed at 1.5GHz when under load. If it is forced to go below that, there is a good reason for threads like these.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Throttle temps are actual very low.
2. It's glass. Glass absorbs hest from the ambient air very easily ( it is summer for many) and from the inside of the device.
3. The phone shouldn't get to hot to hold to ear. I have never felt the display to be hot. Unless it was in direct sunlight.
4. All modern smartphone phones will throttle. Yes this one is more aggressive than most but they all do it. The amount of power all the modern high end chips can draw under load is the highest it has ever been. So they get hotter than ever. Since they are passively cooled, even the best designed phone under full load will throttle.
5. The only good reason for threads like this is to inform the user there isn't a problem. There are no issues.
younix258 said:
To all three responses above me:
Fine it might not overheat to the point of melting or burning or even getting damaged but it does reach throttle temps and get uncomfortable to touch at times. Both of these are issues. Your phone should not be too hot to keep on your ear during a conversation, nor make your palm sweat excessively from holding it. It would also be ideal if your quad phone 1.5GHz phone stayed at 1.5GHz when under load. If it is forced to go below that, there is a good reason for threads like these.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
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thats the thing, its not a phone. its much much more than that. you ever feel how hot a laptop could get? anyways, i do agree with you with one point, that lg, or google, chose to set the cpu throttle temperature too low as a default. having root, i choose to disable thermal throttle, so i never have an issue with with my cpu being throttled down. i sympathize there with non rooted users. but thats only a software fix(the difference is changing a Y to a N in a file), thats not an issue with the n4 overheating.
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albundy2010 said:
1. Throttle temps are actual very low.
2. It's glass. Glass absorbs hest from the ambient air very easily ( it is summer for many) and from the inside of the device.
3. The phone shouldn't get to hot to hold to ear. I have never felt the display to be hot. Unless it was in direct sunlight.
4. All modern smartphone phones will throttle. Yes this one is more aggressive than most but they all do it. The amount of power all the modern high end chips can draw under load is the highest it has ever been. So they get hotter than ever. Since they are passively cooled, even the best designed phone under full load will throttle.
5. The only good reason for threads like this is to inform the user there isn't a problem. There are no issues.
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you look familiar to me, where have i seen you..
Waiting for you to post the solution on how to use the volume buttons on the side of the phone.
What do you expect with no laptop class ventilation?
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
youssef.sala7 said:
I just bought my Nexus 4 about 3 weeks ago, and noticed that it get considerably hot, and I mean, Reallyyyy hot, even when im not using.
So I've been trying out several roms and kernels and finally found the perfect solution and thought I should share it with everyone out there facing the same issue.
Just flash the latest stable version of CyanogenMod, and do not flash any extra kernels with it, leave it as it is, and notice the difference, it doesnt even heat up that much anymore, not even with extreme gaming.
Another tip, if u have touch control, or wave control installed, make sure they arnt working in the background as they keep the alot of sensors working even while the screen is off.
Just thought i'd share this.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
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My N4 get realy hot too, when i'm outside (38C-42C) i can't talk because it burns my years but i see MIUI and 4.3 the heatting issue is gone, i mean it's still hot sometimes but not burning.
I've got a Optimus Black when it first appeard and i got even hotter...
Actually, the Nexus 4 is more prone to overheating than, say, the almost identical Optimus G. Something about a small space in the Nexus 4 somewhere that doesn't conduct heat as efficiently away from the SoC, unlike the Optimus G.
However, like said before, it is summer for most people and it got hot in the UK, so your phone will be warmer than usual if left in the pocket or in the sunshine, but you can't expect to use a phone that's running at 55C-60C by only browsing, can you? Have you guys noticed the drastic temperature difference between wifi usage (low temps) vs data usage (high temps)? This pattern is present in most if not all phones but not as drastic as this, no way.
Then again, sometimes Franco's app is reporting 40-45 C and the phone feels really cool to the touch, and another moment, it's reporting 38 C and the back feels hot, so there's lots of factors that play in this.
Make sure you keep the phone out of the sun, and use Wakelock Detector to see if any rogue apps are holding a dirty wakelock doing lots of syncing especially over data (recent Whatsapp versions have been producing fullsync wakelocks with me everyday).
Disclaimer: other than hot weather and normal heating of the phone, i have not experienced any abnormal overheating, but have a friend who has. My normal temps are 34 C - 38 C, even in hot weather with most of my usage on wifi. Outside in hot weather gets to 42 C - 44 C but that's understandable.
coolnow said:
Then again, sometimes Franco's app is reporting 40-45 C and the phone feels really cool to the touch, and another moment, it's reporting 38 C and the back feels hot, so there's lots of factors that play in this.
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this thought that coolnow just had..
feel doesnt report a temperature, feel only shows that something is warmer than/cooler than whatever body part you are touching it with. its all relative to your body temperature. try this experiment.. get 3 glasses of water, one hot water, one ice water, one room temperature water. at the same time, stick one hand into the hot water and the other in the ice water. keep them in there for a minute. now pull both of your hands out and stick them both in the same glass of room temperature water at the same time. this will mess with your senses, so be warned! the hand that was in the hot water, will feel the room temperature water to be cold, the hand that was in the ice water will feel the room temperature water to be very warm, while they are both in the same glass of water. so you see, reporting how something feels is very inaccurate and unreliable.
As simms22 point out about the feel, that is a terrible way to judge it.
Also so is the actual number from franco's app. His app measures the cpu (Soc) temp. It doesn't also include the battery temp. The higher battery temp will make the phone feel hotter even if the cpu temp is basically the same. Example when changing from the wall. It's also much larger than the SoC so it warms up a gesture surface area more quickly than just the SoC.
It's also located on the middle to lower part of the phone where it is more common to have your hand. Compared to the near the top / camera location for the SoC
Another thing that is obvious but I never mentioned. Is the phone is black. A black glass phone in summer sunlight ( on a call holding the phone up to your ear) will get hot. Even if the thing was turned off.
simms22 said:
this thought that coolnow just had..
feel doesnt report a temperature, feel only shows that something is warmer than/cooler than whatever body part you are touching it with. its all relative to your body temperature. try this experiment.. get 3 glasses of water, one hot water, one ice water, one room temperature water. at the same time, stick one hand into the hot water and the other in the ice water. keep them in there for a minute. now pull both of your hands out and stick them both in the same glass of room temperature water at the same time. this will mess with your senses, so be warned! the hand that was in the hot water, will feel the room temperature water to be cold, the hand that was in the ice water will feel the room temperature water to be very warm, while they are both in the same glass of water. so you see, reporting how something feels is very inaccurate and unreliable.
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That's exactly what i'm saying, reporting what you feel, especially on a glass backing that the Nexus 4 has, is inaccurate (and everyone who went through highschool biology knows our sense of temperature is just a measure of temperature difference).
coolnow said:
Wow, it took you 158 words to get to my point? That's exactly what i'm saying, reporting what you feel, especially on a glass backing that the Nexus 4 has, is inaccurate (and everyone who went through highschool biology knows our sense of temperature is just a measure of temperature difference). But thanks anyway for your useless post :good:
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In case you didn't notice, Simms22 was not arguing against you but supplementing your arguments instead. In layman's term, you are both playing for the same team. So stop fighting amongst yourselves.
At this point I think we can all agree that in terms of actual temperature the Nexus 4 is not (much) hotter than other phones with similar specs. However, there is probably something about the design and/or materials used that causes people to worry (and complain) about the phone overheating. Now if you good folks want to figure out what actually causes the phone to "feel" hotter in comparison to other phones, feel free to proceed. I have no doubt that it will become an interesting topic.
snapper.fishes said:
In case you didn't notice, Simms22 was not arguing against you but supplementing your arguments instead. In layman's term, you are both playing for the same team. So stop fighting amongst yourselves.
At this point I think we can all agree that in terms of actual temperature the Nexus 4 is not (much) hotter than other phones with similar specs. However, there is probably something about the design and/or materials used that causes people to worry (and complain) about the phone overheating. Now if you good folks want to figure out what actually causes the phone to "feel" hotter in comparison to other phones, feel free to proceed. I have no doubt that it will become an interesting topic.
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Somehow, i took his post as heavy sarcasm. I've edited my post.
coolnow said:
Wow, it took you 158 words to get to my point? That's exactly what i'm saying, reporting what you feel, especially on a glass backing that the Nexus 4 has, is inaccurate (and everyone who went through highschool biology knows our sense of temperature is just a measure of temperature difference). But thanks anyway for your useless post :good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
snapper.fishes said:
In case you didn't notice, Simms22 was not arguing against you but supplementing your arguments instead. In layman's term, you are both playing for the same team. So stop fighting amongst yourselves.
At this point I think we can all agree that in terms of actual temperature the Nexus 4 is not (much) hotter than other phones with similar specs. However, there is probably something about the design and/or materials used that causes people to worry (and complain) about the phone overheating. Now if you good folks want to figure out what actually causes the phone to "feel" hotter in comparison to other phones, feel free to proceed. I have no doubt that it will become an interesting topic.
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Click to collapse
really, i wasnt arguing with you, i was backing you up, explaining, because unfortunately most people dont know that feel is just a measure of temperature difference.
what i think the issue is, is that lg(or google) had the cpu throttle temp set too low on stock devices, giving people a noticeable reduction in performance within a normal temperature range, plus the whole glass back thing, therefore freaking out many. enjoying the freedoms of root access, i disable thermal throttle, so i dont notice any of the affects that the throttle would cause.
---------- Post added at 04:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:29 AM ----------
coolnow said:
Somehow, i took his post as heavy sarcasm. I've edited my post.
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Click to collapse
and im out of thanks, but thanks
It is true that the Nexus 4 is heating more that other devices, it has been know even before its release. I had them too at first, when using heavy apps or games. But some roms and kernels make it heat more than normal because they are putting the cpu freq constantly at the max (1.5 GHz), that's why some users have problems constantly. I use the Paranoid Android rom, which is pretty light speaking of cpu usage, and franko kernel putting the max cpu freq at 1Ghz, also lowering the voltages. It helps a lot.
Every device I've ever had, htc desire, archos 70it, galaxy s2, galaxy s3, galaxy tab 10.1, nexus 7, nexus 4 and nexus 10 all have a new thread like this every week, just because the device "feels" hot. All our SoC are so powerful these days do have a high TDP and that's made worse by our SoC's relying on passive cooling. We won't have cool CPU's anytime soon, unless you want a fan or any other active cooling mechanism. Anything under ~80C is fairly safe for modern SoC's and isn't really anything to worry about. When you CPU get's too hot it will aid passively cooling by thermal throttling the CPU to a lower Frequency and if it carries on going up, then it will shut down before any damage is done. With all my devices I've done the same test, Undervolt, turn stress test on when SoC is at ideal temp and time how long it take to reach a certain temp. Repeat the experiment several times. I found that my nexus 10 heats up by far the fastest, thanks 32nm A15's and the nexus 4 was one of the coolest, only being beaten by my galaxy tab 10.1, 40nm dual core A9. To be fair, I do have a faster binned chip. Even my 1.4ghz exynos 4412 s3's core temp was higher than the n4's, you just couldn't feel it as much through the plastic. The nexus 4's heat dissipation even with the minor fault compared to the optimus G is reasonably good.
Lg g4 thermal paste mod
This is my guide for applying thermal paste or pads to various parts of g4 to help disapate heat better.
i personally use Arctic silver About 12 dollars american at any radioshack.
1st of all I am not holding a gun to your head, Im not forcing anyone against there will if you are not comfortable tearing down your phone,
dont!!!!!!
In recent events of loads of g4s bootlooping.
I want to say i have a 10/15 g4 hardware rev 1.1 have had it nearly a year and so far no loop.
Prob wishful thinking but I want to say this may be why helps get rid of the heat off the old girl.
3 screens later, 2 camera lenes, and a leather back. still rooted on zv6 So up yours LG.
So lets get started
1st remove back cover and in my case i have a cell phone repair kit with the screw drivers and prys. Remove all the screws in the frame assambly. There are 11 of them.
2nd carefully pry the rear frame apart from the screen assambly.there are no wires to disconect yet. Do not force her apart she will come apart when all the clips are released.
3rd once the backplate is free there are 3 wire clips 1 on the camera one next to it for the light sensors and down near the bottom rite under the battery.
4th you can leave the camera module in just move the three wires slightly to the side and carefully remove the board flip it over and again carefully pry the big tin away from the board.
5th im a little eccentric so i applied the paste to all 5 chips underneith the tin just a very small dab goes a long way see in pics attached
6th when putting the tin back on make sure its lined up on all points.
this is also a common ground connector on most phones.
From here just reassmble and enjoy!!!!
Whole procsess took about 20 min
Before I started I was at 45 Celsius now after moderate usage to check temp 29 celsius.
Ive run the piss out of this phone. sold it twice and got it back wireless charge.
Shes a soldier.
To see what each circuit is, see step 8 here:
https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/LG+G4+Teardown/42705
Rear-facing chips:
Avago ACPM-7717 Multiband Multimode Power Amplifier
Qualcomm WCD9330 Audio Codec
SlimPort ANX7816 Ultra-HD Transmitter
Qualcomm PM8994 Power Management IC
NXP 47883 NFC Controller
Samsung K3QF6F60AM-QGCF 3 GB LPDDR3 RAM
The Hexa-Core, 1.8 GHz Qualcomm Snapdragon 808 SOC is layered beneath the RAM.
Toshiba THGBMFG8C4LBAIR 32 GB NAND Flash
Broadcom BCM4339HKUBG 5G WiFi Client
Qualcomm PMI8994 Power Management IC
IDT P9025A Qi Wireless Power Receiver IC
Qualcomm WTR3925 LTE Transceiver
---------- Post added at 11:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:14 AM ----------
TheMadScientist420 said:
I place a ever so slight smudge of arctic silver on all 6 plus the larger black chip and so
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Can you clarify - did you put the thermal past *only* between those chips in your picture, and the little metal cover that goes over them? I can't tell if you also put it between the metal covers and the frame of the phone?
Yea i did a small smudge on each then i put the cover back on arctic silver is a pretty nonconductive paste i try not to put it on everything all sloppy but ive never had it liqufy and run any where either some people say it does i didnt put none on the frame or cover.
Im not familiar with this layoit either knowin my dumb arse i put it on the wrong chips but i went through my g3 and actually done a bunch of them in small doses of coarse throught the whole board
Kingfattys diagram is rite i couldnt find a diaram of the board so im partially wrong. I will update tonight ill do another tear down and take more pics
The proscessor is on the backside. Thats why i ask for help to im goin off a old setup.
Ofcoarse it never hurts to coat more chips all produce heat. Ill label the diagrams and do a complete guide rework tonight on my computer
figured id brink this back up on the thread list
so
Bump
dont know if its helped guys.
but so everyone knows i havnt had a bootloop issue on my g4 yet to date again knock on lgs synthetic leather.
there has been a lot of discussions of heat being the primary cause for the failed solder joints and maybe this helped maybe it didnt
What kind of temps are you getting when running antutu on tz_sensor13/14?
tbob18 said:
What kind of temps are you getting when running antutu on tz_sensor13/14?
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Let me dl ot and run it i use 3c toolbox and max is usaually 45. Ive seen 55 or 60 but highly rare. I was using vr and charging together lol
Im runnin the test now
tbob18 said:
What kind of temps are you getting when running antutu on tz_sensor13/14?
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Here they are
TheMadScientist420 said:
Here they are
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That's quite good. How long was that running?
tbob18 said:
That's quite good. How long was that running?
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7 or 8 min
TheMadScientist420 said:
7 or 8 min
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Using the stress test? Wow, I'm definitely going to add thermal paste. That's a good 15-20c lower than mine.
tbob18 said:
Using the stress test? Wow, I'm definitely going to add thermal paste. That's a good 15-20c lower than mine.
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now if u look i pasted almost every flat chip on the front and back under the tins and everything i paste everything from my phones tablets ps3 ps4 pc even the heat sinks on my stereo
and i seem to have decent luck with my electronics so far.
ive replaced the screen on my g4 3 times now sold it 2 or 3 times and bought it back people loved it so much they went out and got g5s and v20s
dissambly is very easy straight foward other than no twrp and keep busting screen i love my g4
i just always keep a back up device just in case. of coarse i have one of the older ones so im stil on zv6 and rooted to the gills
tbob18 said:
Using the stress test? Wow, I'm definitely going to add thermal paste. That's a good 15-20c lower than mine.
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just noticed your from chi town
born and raised in Gary IN moved to tn when i turned 18 now im in vermont the mountains of green state lol
TheMadScientist420 said:
now if u look i pasted almost every flat chip on the front and back under the tins and everything i paste everything from my phones tablets ps3 ps4 pc even the heat sinks on my stereo
and i seem to have decent luck with my electronics so far.
ive replaced the screen on my g4 3 times now sold it 2 or 3 times and bought it back people loved it so much they went out and got g5s and v20s
dissambly is very easy straight foward other than no twrp and keep busting screen i love my g4
i just always keep a back up device just in case. of coarse i have one of the older ones so im stil on zv6 and rooted to the gills
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Click to collapse
Yeah, I really like how the G4 feels and the camera is nice. But temps are crazy. LG seems to have really failed on that front, not to mention how it's all locked down now.
My G2 has been great for that last 3 and a half years, replaced the screen 3 times, battery is now failing though. I'll prob grab another screen as it's just a great, reliable device.
TheMadScientist420 said:
just noticed your from chi town
born and raised in Gary IN moved to tn when i turned 18 now im in vermont the mountains of green state lol
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Nice, I head over to the Indiana dunes area a lot in the summer, some nice places over there. :good:[
--
What do you get in antutu btw?
tbob18 said:
Yeah, I really like how the G4 feels and the camera is nice. But temps are crazy. LG seems to have really failed on that front, not to mention how it's all locked down now.
My G2 has been great for that last 3 and a half years, replaced the screen 3 times, battery is now failing though. I'll prob grab another screen as it's just a great, reliable device.
Nice, I head over to the Indiana dunes area a lot in the summer, some nice places over there. :good:[
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What do you get in antutu btw?
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id have to run it again didnt even pay attantion
mines loaded with loads of crap on it im sure it was pretty low
ive never been one to really go off benchmark scores just numbers to me like ive got a old one loaded up youve got a new one probly still fairly clean
im more into actual real life usage fluidity
i know mine has no lag doesnt overheat and is still fairly smooth running
still handles the gear vr pretty damn good
TheMadScientist420 said:
id have to run it again didnt even pay attantion
mines loaded with loads of crap on it im sure it was pretty low
ive never been one to really go off benchmark scores just numbers to me like ive got a old one loaded up youve got a new one probly still fairly clean
im more into actual real life usage fluidity
i know mine has no lag doesnt overheat and is still fairly smooth running
still handles the gear vr pretty damn good
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Click to collapse
Yeah, I'm not one for benchmarks either, but it can give an idea of the health of the hardware. I did notice lower scores on some G4's I think it may be because of throttling due to overheating though. I get around 70,000, if I put a little pc fan next to it, it gets 71,500.
Copper Heat Sink is the way to go
Copper Heat Sink works the best. There is a video on Youtube, just search youtu.be/G3dQdS1b0aw
CellphonePro said:
Copper Heat Sink works the best. There is a video on Youtube, just search youtu.be/G3dQdS1b0aw
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Click to collapse
Nice video. Summary of procedure:
1) open the phone to reveal the circuit board
2) remove the large metal shroud or plate covering the processor chip and memory chips
3) cut out and remove a section of the large metal shroud that would normally cover the processor chip
3) get a piece of "heatsink tape" (e.g., thermal tape, he uses a tape with copper on top and adhesive on the bottom) and cut it to fit on the top of the memory chip, apply it to the memory chip
4) replace the large metal shroud over the chip - this covers and sandwiches the thermal tape on the memory chip under the shroud, while exposing the processor chip due to the hole you cut in step 3) above
5) apply another section of large thermal tape over the exposed processor to extend beyond the processor to the sides, covering over the metal shroud too (*this I disagree with, see below*)
6) apply a small section of thermal tape over the metal shroud located where the memory chip is located
Disagreement issue: there is a gap/divot over the processor, which will no longer make stiff contact with the frame when you assemble the phone. You can see the divot around 13:00 of the video, how the thermal tape "dips" in over the processor.
To fix, I'd add step between 4 and 5:
4.5) apply a small section of thermal tape directly over the naked processor to serve as a shim - just copy step 3) by applying the same procedure to the processor, not just the memory chip
By giving the processor the same covering of thermal tape as you did the memory chip, you will make sure the tape from step 5) that lays across the metal shroud and processor, will now be flat and not have a divot, to ensure good pressure/contact between the frame and the processor when you install the frame