I have been rooting my Androids since the original G1 and obviously have always used a traditional root method. I have been trying to do some research on what to do with my next device, traditional root or systemless. The obvious advantage of systemless is passing safety net and probably not have to worry about using root cloak, although root cloak still serves me well to this day. The disadvantages I have found is that because Magisk doesnt actually modify system files it just puts a modified file over the existing one on boot you cannot actually simply go into say root explorer, take any file on the system partition and modify it. Which to me seems like a major disadvantage to anyone who likes to modify files in the system partition. I mean something as simple as swapping out a font file is not longer just a copy paste and change permissions. Am i completely off base on this thinking? Please correct me if I am wrong. The only part that seems to be a huge disadvantage to true root is no one is actually developing SuperSU anymore now that ChainFire sold it from what I understand but there is still the old school superuser app that i believe was open source and could be developed on, as I understood the Superuser apps only denied or granted superuser authority did not actually root the device in the first place anyway.
First of all, SuperSU was systemless root long before Magisk...
I believe you're confusing MagiskSU with Magisk modules and Magic mounting. It's perfectly possible to alter /system while Magisk is installed, as long as you don't have a module that is magic mounting files over that particular part of /system. If that's the case, you'll just be trying to alter the Magisk mask instead of the actual files. If you're not using modules, or if you keep Core Only Mode enabled this won't be an issue.
But, even with magic mounting active you've got full access to the original /system files in /sbin/.magisk/mirror.
Didgeridoohan said:
First of all, SuperSU was systemless root long before Magisk...
I believe you're confusing MagiskSU with Magisk modules and Magic mounting. It's perfectly possible to alter /system while Magisk is installed, as long as you don't have a module that is magic mounting files over that particular part of /system. If that's the case, you'll just be trying to alter the Magisk mask instead of the actual files. If you're not using modules, or if you keep Core Only Mode enabled this won't be an issue.
But, even with magic mounting active you've got full access to the original /system files in /sbin/.magisk/mirror.
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ah yes i do recall hearing about systemless SuperSU but it seemed that it just installed SuperSU on the user partition and not as a system app and still allowed modifying the system partition. Sorry for my ignorance about this just tough to google how magisk actually works compared to normal root. So if I have magisk it is systemless root but I can still modify the system partition? Thats good to know. What about when it comes to Xposed, can you use normal Xposed with systemless root or do you have to use systemless xposed? Im currently running lolipop with full root and xposed framework but have a new device with Oreo that Ill probably give Magisk a shot with I just want to know the differences I should expect with what you can and cannot do.
Joe333x said:
ah yes i do recall hearing about systemless SuperSU but it seemed that it just installed SuperSU on the user partition and not as a system app and still allowed modifying the system partition. Sorry for my ignorance about this just tough to google how magisk actually works compared to normal root. So if I have magisk it is systemless root but I can still modify the system partition? Thats good to know. What about when it comes to Xposed, can you use normal Xposed with systemless root or do you have to use systemless xposed? Im currently running lolipop with full root and xposed framework but have a new device with Oreo that Ill probably give Magisk a shot with I just want to know the differences I should expect with what you can and cannot do.
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Yes you can use normal xposed on systemless root, systemless root basically roots by patching the kernel's ramdisk with the SU binary them magisk just install it's remaining binaries in the data partition and them proceeds to hide them through some Linux mounting tricks (it's just a simplified explanation) it's still normal root but the system partition gets intact,magisk and it's modules (in it's repository) use systemless installations as to hide from integrity checks like safetynet and allows you to more easily retain mods during rom updates,other than that magisk is just root with module and hiding functionality
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Joe333x said:
ah yes i do recall hearing about systemless SuperSU but it seemed that it just installed SuperSU on the user partition and not as a system app and still allowed modifying the system partition. Sorry for my ignorance about this just tough to google how magisk actually works compared to normal root. So if I have magisk it is systemless root but I can still modify the system partition? Thats good to know. What about when it comes to Xposed, can you use normal Xposed with systemless root or do you have to use systemless xposed? Im currently running lolipop with full root and xposed framework but have a new device with Oreo that Ill probably give Magisk a shot with I just want to know the differences I should expect with what you can and cannot do.
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And if you are wondering how systemless mods (magisk modules) work they are basically 'mirrored' to the system partition during start up but the module itself is in the data partition
DanGLES3 said:
Yes you can use normal xposed on systemless root, systemless root basically roots by patching the kernel's ramdisk with the SU binary them magisk just install it's remaining binaries in the data partition and them proceeds to hide them through some Linux mounting tricks (it's just a simplified explanation) it's still normal root but the system partition gets intact,magisk and it's modules (in it's repository) use systemless installations as to hide from integrity checks like safetynet and allows you to more easily retain mods during rom updates,other than that magisk is just root with module and hiding functionality
---------- Post added at 12:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:46 AM ----------
And if you are wondering how systemless mods (magisk modules) work they are basically 'mirrored' to the system partition during start up but the module itself is in the data partition
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Thanks for the explanation I appreciate it, so now i guess my only question left is after I use magisk to root and then modify a file on the system partition will I now not pass safety net? I typically dont care about passing since I havent in years but just figured its a question worth asking.
Joe333x said:
Thanks for the explanation I appreciate it, so now i guess my only question left is after I use magisk to root and then modify a file on the system partition will I now not pass safety net? I typically dont care about passing since I havent in years but just figured its a question worth asking.
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If you are on an old device it's possible you still will pass,but sometimes altering an file on the conventional way will trip safetynet,that's why systemless modules are a thing
Just altering regular files shouldn't affect things though. It usually takes ROM level alterations...
Related
Hi,
I'm currently so confused as to why my Magisk isn't working. I'm currently running the last CM 13 snapshot for the Galaxy S5 (G900F, klte), and root and Xposed work fine via Magisk.
However, what isn't working is Magisk Hide, and I'm not sure why. However, I'm noticing that even though I fully unrooted cm-su (using SuperSU, in a way that means the only root I can select in Dev Options is ADB only), I'm still getting cm-su detected by Magisk.
I'm confused -- is there anyway I can remove it? I've tried looking through TWRP file manager, but whenever I do so, I can't even see /system/ files, and mounting only mounts to USB, but that's unrelated.
Thanks for any help!
intcompetent said:
Hi,
I'm confused -- is there anyway I can remove it? I've tried looking through TWRP file manager, but whenever I do so, I can't even see /system/ files, and mounting only mounts to USB, but that's unrelated.
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I don't think SuperSU removes the in-built CM superuser. Use the UNSU zip by osmosis instead. https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2239421
Also magisk hide will NOT hide Xposed. Yes not even systemless 87.1 Xposed.
SuperSU removed its own root only, CM root is unaffected.
Also, Magisk hide only works with Magisk's own phh root.
And, as far as I know, it can't successfully hide Xposed either. Doesn't matter if it is systemless or not.
Cheers for the replies.
I wasn't aware that Magisk Hide didn't hide Xposed, that's my bad.
As for the presence of CM-SU, SuperSU did do something, as the Developer Options root option is now ADB only while previously it offered the option to Apps too. I'll try unsu.
Here's what I'm meaning btw: imgur.com /a /yTOTw (sorry for the link bypass, there's no other way for me to simply demonstrate the issue) (as you can see in the first screenshot, Magisk detects "cm-su" along with phh. When phh was disabled before I removed cm-su, it only detected cm-su, hence leading me to believe cm-su remains).
e: tried unsu, still cm-su remains. At this point, I'll leave it -- I presume that it's permanently ingrained into the ROM. I've gotten around the restriction I was facing anyway, and I'll adjust. Thanks anyway!
intcompetent said:
Cheers for the replies.
I wasn't aware that Magisk Hide didn't hide Xposed, that's my bad.
As for the presence of CM-SU, SuperSU did do something, as the Developer Options root option is now ADB only while previously it offered the option to Apps too. I'll try unsu.
Here's what I'm meaning btw: imgur.com /a /yTOTw (sorry for the link bypass, there's no other way for me to simply demonstrate the issue) (as you can see in the first screenshot, Magisk detects "cm-su" along with phh. When phh was disabled before I removed cm-su, it only detected cm-su, hence leading me to believe cm-su remains).
e: tried unsu, still cm-su remains. At this point, I'll leave it -- I presume that it's permanently ingrained into the ROM. I've gotten around the restriction I was facing anyway, and I'll adjust. Thanks anyway!
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If there are SU files in /system/bin and /system/xbin, then CM root was not removed. Not completely.
To actually remove it you have to delete those files.
Pwnycorn said:
If there are SU files in /system/bin and /system/xbin, then CM root was not removed. Not completely.
To actually remove it you have to delete those files.
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@intcompetent Osmosis's unsu zip removes those files. If those files are still there after flashing the unsu zip, I'd ask in his thread.
knpk13 said:
@intcompetent Osmosis's unsu zip removes those files. If those files are still there after flashing the unsu zip, I'd ask in his thread.
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Or just remove them manually, jeez. It's just two files.
I've been doing it manually for months and everything works as intended.
As an a closer, there's nothing there. I presume that Magisk is picking up something freaky from somewhere, or something's up, but I'm good guys. I won't need anymore help.
Cheers!
I found this zip around somewhere. I believe it works to remove all root (systemless as well) and I've always flashed it before rooting normally. It should also remove CM root afaik.
As a test, after flashing, check and see if you pass safetynet before installing magisk
intcompetent said:
As an a closer, there's nothing there. I presume that Magisk is picking up something freaky from somewhere, or something's up, but I'm good guys. I won't need anymore help.
Cheers!
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I
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Hey guys! So my issue here, is how do you completely remove SuperSU or built in cm root? I prefer magisk and phh root for it's simplicity and it's magisk hide feature, to make a custom ROM pass safety net without any issue. Thanks guys!
EDIT: I should add that I used the uninstall feature in SuperSU app, it seemed to have removed it, but phh module wouldn't install afterwards. Is there a manual way to remove it? I'm thinking maybe through recovery file manager.
You can try to delete the su folder with twrp filemanager,
for cm based there is an unroot.zip at the nitrogen OS thread (first page) which should work, try that
H4X0R46 said:
Hey guys! So my issue here, is how do you completely remove SuperSU or built in cm root? I prefer magisk and phh root for it's simplicity and it's magisk hide feature, to make a custom ROM pass safety net without any issue. Thanks guys!
EDIT: I should add that I used the uninstall feature in SuperSU app, it seemed to have removed it, but phh module wouldn't install afterwards. Is there a manual way to remove it? I'm thinking maybe through recovery file manager.
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http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=63615067
Hello,
First off, I am using a Oneplus 5 device running 7.1.1 Nougat.
I followed this guide to root my phone with Magisk 13.2 https://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-5/how-to/oneplus-5-unlock-bootloader-flash-twrp-t3624877
I am able to download apps that require root, and grant them said root access.
However when trying to give AdAway Systemless root access (In preferences) the checkbox is greyed out and unusable.
So far so bad.
When trying to install BusyBox, and try to select a different install path (/su/xbin or /su/bin) I get the error message : "Systemless root is not configured, please choose another install location"
If I go into Magisk Manager both BusyBox and AdAway are Granted Root access, and when checking settings, Hosts Systemless is activated.
Am I simply blind and have I missed a step? On the Magisk Manager Homescreen, it says I have the latest version installed, and MAGIKSU is also validated.
Help please? I'm confused. D:
For AdAway you shouldn't have to bother with the systemless option. Just enable Systemless hosts in the Magisk Manager.
You could also use a Magisk module. There's a great one called Unified Hosts Adblocker. Unfortunately there's a bug in the Manager at the moment that makes it crash when downloading modules. They can be installed manually though (there's a download in the thread).
For busybox you've got a great installer here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2239421
It'll install as a Magisk module when flashed in recovery.
Hello,
I've followed your suggestion and manually installed Unified Hosts Adblocker. I'm assuming it will update on it's own when required? As it has no interface. (Also, I am still getting ads, is this normal? xD)
So installing AdAway won't trigger SafetyNet as long as I have "Hosts Systemless" checked right?
I have also flashed the BusyBox installer from the link you gave me. It shows up on Magisk Modules, however it hasn't created a busybox icon in my applist. (Again, no interface? Is this installed correctly?)
Furthermore, I've looked around a bit, and is it true I currently can not expect to run Xposed Framework on Nougat?
Thank you for your current answers, in the hopes of further ones.
With the hosts module you'll have to run it manually. Use a terminal emulator and type su followed by hosts and then follow the instructions. The m option is included in all the others... Don't forget to enable systemless hosts or it won't work. More about how you use the module in the thread.
There's no interface for the busybox installation, no. There's no need really...
---------- Post added at 17:27 ---------- Previous post was at 17:26 ----------
Oh yeah. No Xposed for Nougat.
Thanks for your help, it's been of great assistance and sets my mind to rest that nothing really went wrong with my installation of Magisk. I'll keep an eye out for the Manager updates that'll fix the downloads.
I was once again just wondering about the updating of busybox, but I'll just assume that if I get a "Update busybox" from any app, I'll come back to the post you directed me to and update it that way.
You didn't answer my pondering about Xposed, but once again I'll just assume what I found is true and the developer currently hasn't had time to update it yet, and it may take a while.
Thank you for your time and the peace of mind you've procured me.
Didgeridoohan said:
Oh yeah. No Xposed for Nougat.
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:laugh:
I'm new to Magisk, and one thing I'm confused about is the role of the various systemless modules.
1. Essentially, is there anything that I *can't* do normally with Magisk (that I would be able to do if it were rooted any other way) that I *have to* have a module for?
For example, when you have modules to have systemless hosts or systemless Busybox - does that mean that when you use Magisk, you *can't* install or work with these things without those modules, or does it mean that you still could do it normally, but the modules just give you an option to do it without actually modifying anything?
2. If the answer is that I can still do everything normally, but the modules just give me the *option* to do it without actually modifying /system, then why does it matter?
For example, I've never minded having an adblock application actually modify the hosts file when I've rooted in the past before Magisk, so what advantage is there to redirecting them to a fake hosts file? If anything, I would think it increases the chance that something will go wrong or that there will be an incompatibility somewhere along the way.
Everything that Magisk does systemlessly can be done in the old and normal way of modifying system files.
The main advantage for me to use Magisk modules is that all the modifications are still there after a system update (since they'll be in the Magisk image which is kept in /data/adb). I won't have to redo them like I used to before Magisk...
For those that care about updating their device through an OTA, systemless modifications will also make sure that will still work, sort of. You'll still have to keep a stock recovery and restore your stock boot image before updating, but with newer devices that's getting a lot easier. More details here: https://topjohnwu.github.io/Magisk/tutorials.html#ota-installation
Didgeridoohan said:
Everything that Magisk does systemlessly can be done in the old and normal way of modifying system files.
The main advantage for me to use Magisk modules is that all the modifications are still there after a system update (since they'll be in the Magisk image which is kept in /data/adb). I won't have to redo them like I used to before Magisk...
For those that care about updating their device through an OTA, systemless modifications will also make sure that will still work, sort of. You'll still have to keep a stock recovery and restore your stock boot image before updating, but with newer devices that's getting a lot easier. More details here: https://topjohnwu.github.io/Magisk/tutorials.html#ota-installation
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Gotcha! It's not obvious for people new to Magisk whether using a systemless root forces you to do everything in a systemless manner afterwards or not, so I really appreciate your clarifying this.
Haphim said:
Gotcha! It's not obvious for people new to Magisk whether using a systemless root forces you to do everything in a systemless manner afterwards or not, so I really appreciate your clarifying this.
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No worries. Just want to point out that systemless root isn't Magisk specific. SuperSU and phh's superuser are two examples of root solutions that were systemless long before MagiskSU was a thing...
I used SuperSu many, many years ago and figured I would give it a try an old e5 Plus that's been collecting dust in a junk drawer. Using Platform Tools, TWRP and a SuperSu zip the whole process took maybe 10 minutes.
I noticed that all of the guides here use Magisk and they look fairly complicated for the average user. Is there a reason why it's favored over SuperSu? Now that I'm rooted, can I use Magisk and all of its features (modules, etc)?
SuperSU is more easily detected by banking apps, Netflix, Disney+, Google Pay etc. As it modifies the system partition while Magisk is a system-less root.
dbohnine said:
Now that I'm rooted, can I use Magisk and all of its features (modules, etc)?
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I think you can install Magisk using the SuperSU root. But anyway if you want to use Magisk features, you will need to install Magisk.