Hi,
I'm new to Android since I first bought my GT-N7000 on eBay back in February. I waited until the official ICS upgrade (through Kies) to even start considering rooting my device and flashing Kernels. I haven't dared custom ROMs yet because I feel I don't have the necessary knowledge to proceed with confidence.
What I read in threads are a collection of particular cases with answers that are equally case specific, without ever referring to the underlying principles that govern the said operations. Worse, most members "think" that their process does this and that. In short, I'm left with an empirical approach to these crucial and potentially device crippling operations. I can't and won't take those kind of risks with my precious device until I can understand what would and wouldn't screw up/brick my device (what I'm really doing, not what I think is going on).
Everyone should be in a position to assess their machine's various parts and current state accurately and to know the basic dangers/pitfalls in order to elaborate any kind of OS and Hardware config alteration process.
By underlying principles, here's what I mean:
- what is a bootloader, how can it be determined, does it have any incidence on the Kernel and ROM being loaded on top, can it be changed, how?
- what is my modem and radio build, how can I determine, can it be changed, does a ROM or Kernel flash change that?
- What does LPY, LPT, ... refer to, and do they have any incidence on the flashing process?
- what exactly is the Dalvik cache, what does wiping it actually mean (and what about the hard brick bug), and what is Odexing?
- What should I use to flash, what are the differences/risks (Odin Pc, mobile Odin, CMW all versions), all considering my device's current state (bootloader, modem & radio, Kernel, rom, partial/full root)?
- What is a partial root, how can I determine, and what will happen if I flash Kernel or Rom in such a state?
- What will a factory reset actually do (restore phone as when I bought it with Gingerbread, or to the point after the Kies upgrade with ICS)?
Thanks and Cheers,
------------------------------------ Organized answers below --------------------
First of all, before you start anything, you need to understand that the XDA is not for the random general consumer. Instead, it is intended for people with genuine interest in the technological devices they own, and who strive to fiddle or hack their way into a working knowledge and skill-set for it. The URL says "xda-developers", so read this article from a retired moderator, and move on with your journey:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
1. ROM, internal SD and partitions
[ ref: http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/product/flash-emmc/overview ]
[ ref:http://www.cpkb.org/wiki/Samsung_GT-N7000_GT-N7000L_Galaxy_Note_service_manual ]
[ ref:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory ]
[ ref:http://www.cpkb.org/wiki/Samsung_PIT ]
The ROM is the dead space, the hard drive of your phone (nothing executes in the ROM, it's just a data repository). In the GT-N7000, that hard drive is called the eMMC chip. This chip uses NAND flash for storage, which is a particular type of solid state memory (Nandroid backup wrings a bell?). Together, the components of this chip form what is called the ROM (read-only, non-volatile). It contains all the instructions and code necessary for your device to bring itself to life by reading the said instructions and loading the said code into RAM for execution.
Since these instructions and this code are responsible for various parts of the power on cycle and system functions, it makes it easier to manage if they sit on distinct parts of the hard drive. Think about this: how could you change the kernel if the data sat on the same physical ground as the recovery console data? ... Hence the partitions.
There is also the concept of internal sd (or /sdcard when you look at the mounted filesystem through a file explorer). This is a reserved space on the eMMC chip itself, a mount point for the system to access (look at the service manuals, you'll notice there is only one internal flash memory chip). That's why when you use a utility app to look at the size declared for that space, you notice that it isn't the full 16GB or 32GB, but a fraction of that. There are other pieces of data written to your eMMC chip that take up space as well (like the bootloader, the recovery, the OS or the kernel).
Hint:
You probably cannot and should not attempt to repartition your eMMC chip from the device itself (that would mean that the partitioning process would have to be executed from RAM, since ROM would be unworkable during the operation). You'll want to do that from a desktop or other flashing apparatus, and you'll need to know exactly what you're about to do.
Clarification (disambiguation):
ROM --> the read-only memory, the type of memory, the memory chip itself
ROM --> a collection of data that developers have concocted and that is written to the read-only memory, populating the various eMMC chip partitions. This data is what makes up the software stack on your device (quite probably recovery, kernel, OS and root for custom ROMs).
2.BOOTLOADER
[ ref: http://www.androidenea.com/2009/06/android-boot-process-from-power-on.html ]
[ ref:http://www.extremetech.com/computin...tloader-and-why-does-verizon-want-them-locked ]
The bootloader is the first gasp of air your phone takes when powered on (there are other steps prior, but intricately tied to the hardware and outside our scope). It is a program, separate from the kernel and from Android OS, that is responsible for setting up initial memories and RAM and finding+loading the kernel, or loading the recovery console. Think of it as GRUB on a desktop, or that thing in Windows that prompts you to boot in safe mode after a crash. As such, it can be conceived as the entry point to the loading of the software stack, and ultimately, the user space from which you, the user, and your apps operate from.
Since the bootloader is a software specific to the device itself, and that it is in charge of validating the prerequisites for loading the kernel into RAM, it has specific functions that scan the ROM partitions for validity. It also has provisions to refuse moving on to further steps if it thinks something is not kosher. This is where the notion of "locked" bootloader comes in. In order to load customized code in the software stack, the bootloader must allow the operation to take place, it must be programmed in that manner.
Some manufacturers program their bootloaders to load only stock firmware and halt if anything custom is written to the ROM. Furthermore, they may even encrypt this piece of software so that developers can never alter it: no root ever, no custom kernel, no modem flashing, no custom Roms, no custom recovery, no joy!
Luckily for us, Samsung is quite dev-friendly and ships the GT-N7000 with an unencrypted bootloader (cheers to them). Beware though, because carriers and manufacturers aren't the same people. Your carrier may one day decide that it wants the bootloader encrypted on all of its new devices, I can't foresee the future. Don't confuse unlocked and unencrypted: an unencrypted bootloader doesn't mean that it's unlocked, just that it can easily be unlocked.
[ need to confirm implications of locked bootloader, find a way to confirm state and list a few ways to unlock ]
Hint:
[not sure: Make sure your phone is unlocked before attempting any flashing]. Also make sure that the piece of data you are loading is correct for your device. Writing foreign data to your eMMC chip (ROM chip) could throw the bootloader into panic.
Notice:
There should be very few reasons for you to flash the bootloader (it would really be one of your last resorts). That would mean that something utterly wrong happened to your device. In any case, you truly want to flash the Samsung official bootloader, using the official Samsung flashing tool (Odin).
3.KERNEL
[ ref:http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=ROM-VS-Kernel#The_kernel ]
[ ref:http://www.vikitech.com/8239/beginners-guide-android-kernels ]
[ ref:http://www.linfo.org/kernel_space.html ]
Once all the preliminaries are set, the bootloader loads the kernel into ram and hands control over to it. It will be the captain from now on. So far, we have (almost) no way to access the hardware. That's the responsibility of the data that sits on the SYSTEM partition of the eMMC chip, the one that's just been loaded into RAM for execution.
As it loads, the kernel sets up all things concrete like interrupt controllers, schedulers, cpu frequency, memory management, safeties... everything so the hardware is functional and ready to use. As such, the kernel is now the gateway to the hardware layer: if you want something to blink or beep on your machine, you'll have to ask it to manage your request.
Now that the kernel is done with rigging up all the organs and limbs of the robot, it looks to initiate actions, or processes. It launches the init process, the first of all processes, and the parent of all processes (all future processes will be generated by this very process, system services and apps alike). The init process looks for its instructions (setting of environment, mounting of filesystem, setting of system permissions, etc.) in a file named "init.rc". Just as in Linux, when you launch a shell, the shell looks for its associated .rc file. You may want to read through the "init.rc", just for kicks. It's very informative as to what goes on during the power-on process after the kernel is ready to operate. From then on, the init process looks to start to Dalvik virtual machine by launching Zygote.
Note:
It is important to know that the hardware functions present in the recovery console are provided by the kernel. That's why it can be problematic to perform these operations from a "buggy" kernel. More on that in the Recovery section.
4.ZYGOTE AND DALVIK (and caching+Odexing) cached .dex and .odex rely on the kernel so swapping kernels without wiping dalvik cache can cause problems
- APP AND USERSPACE DATA: apps are system users, the user interacts with the system through apps. Internal SD and backing up/restoring/wiping.
5.RECOVERY
[ ref:http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1667886 ]
[ ref:http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=26285877&postcount=12 ]
akin to flashing tool (short description of software type and confer to next section for functional details)
- kernel does the eMMC format. Possible to fry some blocks of the memory chip with software itself (the cap erase flag seems to circumvent that unfortunate frying). Since kernel formats (wipes and resets) are done from recovery.
6.FLASHING TOOLS
- Identify your device (in the stock state) before you do any flashing
- always be able to go back to the state you were in before a flashing operation (be prepared with the proper data at hand, images to flash and/or self-made backups)
7.CUSTOM ROMS
- what is it?
- talk about LPY (Touchwiz), AOSP, AOKP ... how they could be compared to Gnome, KDE, or other OS GUI.
- talk about the potential for roms to modify various parts of the system (like the kernel or the structuring of the filesystem, or even the radio, who knows) = ask the right questions to the developers instead of crying to them after you've bricked.
Man..you just need to do a lot of reading and be selective in what you read based on what you want to achieve, whether you have the sufficient knowledge and the tool to achieve it..
Next, gain confidence in what you're about to do..read feedback, success stories and setbacks by others.. If the risk is relatively high, be prepared to roll back..
Finally, you've got to try it out yourself.. You know faith without works is dead..
I've done my fair share of reading, and I still do. Also, I'm not an agnostic when it comes to computers (I'm a developer myself, web/server/network/Flash and Flex, so I'm aware of a few things). I have given faith a go, but you read where I'm at presently (totally unsure and unwilling to do anything).
There's nothing worse than a false sense of security or assurance, you'll hit a wall anyhow (reality doesn't care my friend!). I don't mind handling a stickie and doing all the grunt work. What I'm looking for is to confirm certain basic pieces of knowledge without crapping out my machine (it's expensive, I can't afford a new one every other week), and to share that with other GT-N7000 owners, so we can go about trying stuff for ourselves without a false sense of "that's not a wall, it's mirage, don't worry".
Trying stuff is the basis of discovery, true. But when you try stuff and you can't even confirm what you're actually trying, you won't be able to learn, let alone deduce any kind of principle from it...
This being said, would I be allowed to start collecting these basic pieces of information, to organize them in a coherent manner and to post them somewhere in the GT-N7000 forum?
Oh, Oh, Oh, ah, ... you said "rollback". How? I've read that applying backups in certain states could actually screw things up, like a partial root for instance. Rollback procedure should be defined, and I'm willing to define it for the rest of us.
Very Good set of questions hopefully somebody answers them.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app
Stock Recovery v/s Custom Recovery
I was keen on asking about the difference between Stock Recovery and Custom Recovery, for which I thought of creating a new thread until I came across your topic, Monkey_banana.
Thank you for initiating a relevant thread.
Personally, I have not rooted my Galaxy Note yet. I am unsure about many issues and thus I am taking my time, reading and posting queries (naive and stupid many a times) with the motive of acquiring a strong base of knowledge which I can put into practice and achieve confidence.
Can the Galaxy Note be rooted without a custom recovery or is it advisable to have a custom recovery installed on the device?
I sincerely apologise if you feel I have hijacked your thread.
Hey YLNdroid,
No hijacking felt! I started this thread because I needed to positively confirm basic concepts. The consolidated summary idea is a little ambitious, I admit, but if at least it gets a discussion going (about concepts, not about specifics of every device, kernel and ROM), then all the better.
From what I've read, recovery sits on a bootable partition ( androidcentral.com/what-recovery-android-z/ ):
- Stock recovery allows you to wipe/reset and to flash stock ROM. Very limited, and probably not to be used if you intend to or have previously flashed anything remotely custom (like rooted kernels or Ketan's busybox installer).
- Custom recovery is tweaked and enhanced version (like CWM) that allows backups and recovery, custum wiping, custom ROM flashing and so on. They are probably also different in the way that changes are applied in order to satisfy the hacking requirements of various custom pieces of data.
This is the best of my knowledge, can anyone confirm?
Monkey_banana said:
[*]- what is a bootloader, how can it be determined, does it have any incidence on the Kernel and ROM being loaded on top, can it be changed, how?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
boot loader is the first piece of code that runs after power on and loads the kernel. flashing kernel or custom ROM does not effect boot loader on note. check the following link for booting process
http://www.androidenea.com/2009/06/android-boot-process-from-power-on.html
Monkey_banana said:
[*]- what is my modem and radio build, how can I determine, can it be changed, does a ROM or Kernel flash change that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
go to settings->about phone-> Radio version. This will be your modem build. Modem is mainly responsible for making calls and data connections. Modem is usually independent of rom or android version you are using. unless you are experiencing poor signal it is not much you get by changing a modem. Some roms include a modem some don't. check out modems thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1645202
Monkey_banana said:
[*]- What does LPY, LPT, ... refer to, and do they have any incidence on the flashing process?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They refer to different releases of ics from samsung. any operation involving format operation with these build might result in bricking of you note. check this emmc bug thread for more info http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1644364
Monkey_banana said:
[*]- what exactly is the Dalvik cache, what does wiping it actually mean (and what about the hard brick bug), and what is Odexing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dalvik cache is a cache folder for dalvik VM running on android. Odex is how things come stock. It takes up less room but making modifications or taking apks from other roms is hard.
Deodex basically takes the odex file and stuffs it into the apk as a classes.dex. First boot it dissembles the file into /dalvik-cache (i believe). Now there is basically 2 copies of the odex, one in the apk one in cache. This makes it "portable". This allows modders to work on the apks & easily change stuff. If you want themes or stuff like lockscreen fixes you MUST use Deodex.
got it from http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=710648
Monkey_banana said:
[*]- What should I use to flash, what are the differences/risks (Odin Pc, mobile Odin, CMW all versions), all considering my device's current state (bootloader, modem & radio, Kernel, rom, partial/full root)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
first do check if there is any damage to your sdcard since you are an effected kernel. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1709054
For you case i suggest you to flash GB ROM from this thread [LINK]http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1424997[LINK] and then root it and then flash abyss kernel 4.2 from mobile odin or pc odin. If you flash with mobile odin it won't cause flash counter to increase but pc odin increase the flash counter resulting in a yellow triangle.
once abysskernel 4.2 is flashed go to recovery mode (volumeup + home+powerbutton). from there you can wipe dalvik cache+ wipe cache + wipe data. once that is done you can flash any custom rom you like. go for roms with cm9 kernel as it is safe from emmc bug. i am stunner and it great.
wipe operations usually format the corresponding partitions.
Monkey_banana said:
[*]- What is a partial root, how can I determine, and what will happen if I flash Kernel or Rom in such a state?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
try to paste some test file in to /system partition and delete it. if you have a proper root that you should be able to successfully complete those operations.
Monkey_banana said:
[*]- What will a factory reset actually do (restore phone as when I bought it with Gingerbread, or to the point after the Kies upgrade with ICS)?
it is similar to wipe i guess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
kopitalk said:
Man..you just need to do a lot of reading (...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see this regularly but I've never seen any "real" documentation yet.
I've only seen some flashing docs from well intentioned people for whom English was a third language and who assumed every acronym was well known to their readers and which is written in a toned down l33t style (although with lots of colours). This doesn't really help.
All I've found from Google was dev documentation which didn't really address this specific topic. (since I have an itch to scratch in that area I'm slowly making my way through it, maybe I just didn't find the right bit yet)
I know that writing documentation is complex and yields many traps. I have written enough in my time (and was one of the few to actually enjoy it). However as an old time Unix user, I'm still trying to figure out Android and still haven't found anything that was worth the read. All I found were recipes that were really hard to understand.
Now I know that good documentation takes ages to write, so I'm certainly not downplaying what we have. At least we have it. But it *is* terrible.
Hey srik02003,
Thank you very much for the ton of info. Particularly the link about the bootloader... Precious information very well explained.
I'm reading everything and will later update the original post to organize what we've got so far.
Again, thank you!
Monkey_banana said:
Hey srik02003,
Thank you very much for the ton of info. Particularly the link about the bootloader... Precious information very well explained.
I'm reading everything and will later update the original post to organize what we've got so far.
Again, thank you!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wish you luck, seeing lots of threads with repetitive questions and problems, it seems a very good idea, especially to help absolute beginners
i am glad it helped you...if you could summarize, it will sure help a lot of android beginners
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app
Summarizing and sorting at the moment. I'm going through everything in an organized fashion and modifying the original post as I go along.
Do check the original post from time to time and feel free to make comments, refute, or provide more information.
Monkey_banana said:
Summarizing and sorting at the moment. I'm going through everything in an organized fashion and modifying the original post as I go along.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only one thing you need to know (don't worry about bootloaders etc.) And this is coming from a guy who recently superbricked his phone. (more about that in a minute). Anyway, here it is.....
ONLY FLASH FROM or do WIPES/FORMATS/FACTORY RESETS ON a kernel that has eMMC_CAP_ERASE DISABLED!
There's the whole superbrick scenario summarized in a nutshell. If CAP_ERASE is disabled, you wont brick your phone.
So which kernels am I talking about? - the following:-
SAFE!
Stock or CF-Root GB
Abyssnote 1.4.2
DAFUQ
SpeedMod
Franco
Th*r
PC or Mobile Odin
UNSAFE!
Stock or CF-Root ICS
CWM ICS
Any custom kernel where it has not been verified that CAP_ERASE is disabled.
Why? - Crap firmware. The GT N7000 doesn't like to have its eMMC chip formatted (even if only a partition). It damages it and eventually turns it into a superbrick! This happens during flashing new ROMs, doing factory resets, formatting partitions and wiping data. HOWEVER! If MMC_CAP_ERASE is disabled in the kernel, then the format instruction reverts to a simple, (and harmless) delete (like on a PC) and no damage occurs:good:
How did I brick my phone? Easy, wiped on an unsafe kernel after having a few beers and not DOUBLE CHECKING which kernel I was on before I did so:crying: (New MoBo being replaced under warranty as we speak)
Hope this helps.
BTW. I have rooted, flashed, un-roooted, reflashed, re-rooted wiped, formatted etc. for about 6 weeks until I had a brain-fade and did it on the wrong kernel.
"If you drink and wipe, your a bloody idiot!"
shoey63 said:
Only one thing you need to know (don't worry about bootloaders etc.) And this is coming from a guy who recently superbricked his phone. (more about that in a minute). Anyway, here it is.....
ONLY FLASH FROM or do WIPES/FORMATS/FACTORY RESETS ON a kernel that has eMMC_CAP_ERASE DISABLED!
[...]
"If you drink and wipe, your a bloody idiot!"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Firstly, thanks for participating in the discussion!
Secondly, although I understand your "forget about it, only consider the eMMC brick bug" recommendation, it presupposes some form of knowledge to forget about (which not every user has). You are able to formulate that your phone needs wiping because you figure that some operation, let's say a custom ROM flash, was not clean, or that it created some conflict between the various parts of your system. Right?
Lastly, a newbi or noob is not that far off from a baby in Android terms. I don't know if you've ever watched a baby, but they seem pretty drunk to me, wouldn't you agree?
All that being said, even seasoned developers/modders end up in dark places from time to time. The difference with noobs is that they have a pretty clear idea where that dark place is, how they got there, and how to get back into the light. Your recommendation is excellent at that point ("don't wipe unless you're sure your kernel is safe, or you'll go from a dark place straight to hell"), but not sufficient to fully grasp what is going on and to formulate a correct way out.
That's why I will pursue this basic knowledge round-up I have started. Again, thanks for the knowledge, I definately will integrate to the original post.
Cheers.
Before considering flashing any custom rom, rooting is required. Where can you learn how to root your phone? Well there is a thread here at xda, or there are other sites such as rootgalaxynote.com which explain how to root or unroot your phone. And the ideea of flashing custom roms and rooting and whatever is that each and everyone of us is required to do some research. It took me 2 days of researching and reading before i rooted and overclocked my note and another week before i flashed a custom rom. Bottom line, everyone who wants to flash anything: do some research and read the instructions provided by the devs. I never ever had a single problem because i read, read and read again the instructions.
LaCroyx said:
Before considering flashing any custom rom, rooting is required.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed, that's very well put: "can't root, can't mod". [ not sure: It is an actual test for the unlocked bootloader prerequisite ]. I'll integrate that! (That's what we need, verifiable knowledge).
LaCroyx said:
[...] And the idea of flashing custom roms and rooting and whatever is that each and everyone of us is required to do some research. It took me 2 days of researching and reading before i rooted and overclocked my note and another week before i flashed a custom rom. Bottom line, everyone who wants to flash anything: do some research and read the instructions provided by the devs. I never ever had a single problem because i read, read and read again the instructions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although I strongly agree with the responsibility to read and inform oneself, there tends to be a crucial lack of referenced/verifiable information in the various posts across the forum. This leads to false knowledge and ultimately, a flurry of nonsensical questions that bog down threads and frustrate developers and readers alike.
Reading sets of instructions is cool and all, but it doesn't prevent you from formulating a question like "I've rooted my bootloader and wiped my phone. Can I Flash your kernel safely now?". That person read a series of recipes and applied them one after the other without a logical understanding (no better than a robot).
Monkey_banana said:
Firstly, thanks for participating in the discussion!
Secondly, although I understand your "forget about it, only consider the eMMC brick bug" recommendation, it presupposes some form of knowledge to forget about (which not every user has). You are able to formulate that your phone needs wiping because you figure that some operation, let's say a custom ROM flash, was not clean, or that it created some conflict between the various parts of your system. Right?
Lastly, a newbi or noob is not that far off from a baby in Android terms. I don't know if you've ever watched a baby, but they seem pretty drunk to me, wouldn't you agree?
All that being said, even seasoned developers/modders end up in dark places from time to time. The difference with noobs is that they have a pretty clear idea where that dark place is, how they got there, and how to get back into the light. Your recommendation is excellent at that point ("don't wipe unless you're sure your kernel is safe, or you'll go from a dark place straight to hell"), but not sufficient to fully grasp what is going on and to formulate a correct way out.
That's why I will pursue this basic knowledge round-up I have started. Again, thanks for the knowledge, I definately will integrate to the original post.
Cheers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah you're quite right, I'm not a developers arsehole. But I do know what will brick a phone. (first hand experience!) Sorry if I appeared arrogant before, but I'm still mad about Samsung selling brickable SGN's. Just hoping that if a noob like me runs into this thread he will be pay a bit more attention to his kernel before he does anything drastic - flashing wise.
And yes there are plenty more questions to be answered, Like - Why are virgin stock ICS builds seemingly immune from eMMC bug (Or are they)? Samsung reckons they cant replicate the problem!! (WTF!)
And another one - Does rooting and/or CWM increase the likelihood of bricking? (On ICS) and if so, why?
BTW Latest CWM9 builds are safe (as long as you dont flash from a dodgy kernel)
Monkey_banana said:
Although I strongly agree with the responsibility to read and inform oneself, there tends to be a crucial lack of referenced/verifiable information in the various posts across the forum. This leads to false knowledge and ultimately, a flurry of nonsensical questions that bog down threads and frustrate developers and readers alike.
Reading sets of instructions is cool and all, but it doesn't prevent you from formulating a question like "I've rooted my bootloader and wiped my phone. Can I Flash your kernel safely now?". That person read a series of recipes and applied them one after the other without a logical understanding (no better than a robot).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to say you are perfectly right. I've seen a lot of stupid questions. In your spirit of helping out i will search for a very well formulated post about acronims and abreviations used in the android world. I think it's the first thing anyone should learn.
shoey63 said:
But I do know what will brick a phone. (first hand experience!) Sorry if I appeared arrogant before, but I'm still mad about Samsung selling brickable SGN's.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We shouldn't have to learn that way because it makes people mad and arrogant. We're a community, so we must be able to learn from one another and spread some joy... Emotions aside, we do have to thank Samsung for allowing us to customize/tamper with our phones in the first place. Opening their source means that we'll be testing scenarios they never thought of. Let's play nice and give them a break.
shoey63 said:
And yes there are plenty more questions to be answered, Like - Why are virgin stock ICS builds seemingly immune from eMMC bug (Or are they)? Samsung reckons they cant replicate the problem!! (WTF!)
And another one - Does rooting and/or CWM increase the likelihood of bricking? (On ICS) and if so, why?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All part of the same concept: using stock/manufacturer-prescribed-and-tested methods of flashing vs. using custom flashing methods.
As far as Samsung not acknowledging the eMMC wipe brick bug, read this: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1698977
If you go the manufacturer's way, you're pretty much guaranteed that they ate their own dog food. If you decide to flash custom data, then you make yourself responsible for eating your on dog food, make sure you're recipe is kosher!
CWM is a custom recovery console, so yes, you're increasing your chances of bricking your device. Rooting is also a custom piece of data written to your device, so you've increased your risk (especially if you're using custom recovery).
I reckon that wiping data on the eMMC from stock recovery and custom recovery with a faulty eMMC chip can trigger the disastrous brick (the formatting process hangs, and lord knows what partition got affected).
I don't know if that stands with Samsung Odin (aka PC Odin) as it is probably not using the kernel to do the wipe (you can also repartition from there, so maybe the routines handle faulty chips better).
Hi I have a few questions for my nexus 6 that I am getting today
1) I am going to flash a the new marshmallow update, which one should I pick because for root you need a specific build but on the google factory images the latest build is not supported? I really don't know.
2) After I flash 6.0 can I just do the fastboot flash recovery twrp.img without flashing the boot.img
3) When I go to a new rom like Chroma by Zephik do I still need to change the boot.img to flash the beta super user
For now these are all my questions and I would really appreciate if you could answer it.
side note: I cannot use NRT becuase I am on a mac, if you guys have any alternatives I would really appreciate it too.
1) Flash any of them, they are all rootable. I would recommend going with the latest one. Unless I am mistaken, I believe K, N, and R each have the same radio so there effectively would be no real difference in the end result, as a custom ROM will overwrite everything else.
2) Yes, there is no need to have a modified boot image or root if you plan on flashing a custom ROM.
3) This depends on the ROM, they should have instructions in their post as to what they require. I am pretty sure Chroma comes with a custom kernel already, and I believe it comes pre-rooted as well. It could be that you have to root the ROM after you flash it if you want root though, there are some ROMs that are like that. The OP should have installation instructions.
As for your side note, I don't recommend using a toolkit of any sort. I recommend learning how to use fastboot, and doing it manually. That way if you were to need to fix something in the future, you would have a general understanding of what you did and why, and perhaps that will help you in how to fix it. Rather than clicking a couple buttons in a toolkit. Also, toolkits can fail, and not tell you why. It is often hard to figure out what went wrong when it is doing multiple steps at once, rather than one at a time like if you were to do it the manual way. It really isn't that difficult, and it is very well documented process at this point with tons of guides with pictures and even videos out there.
cupfulloflol said:
1) Flash any of them, they are all rootable. I would recommend going with the latest one. Unless I am mistaken, I believe K, N, and R each have the same radio so there effectively would be no real difference in the end result, as a custom ROM will overwrite everything else.
2) Yes, there is no need to have a modified boot image or root if you plan on flashing a custom ROM.
3) This depends on the ROM, they should have instructions in their post as to what they require. I am pretty sure Chroma comes with a custom kernel already, and I believe it comes pre-rooted as well. It could be that you have to root the ROM after you flash it if you want root though, there are some ROMs that are like that. The OP should have installation instructions.
As for your side note, I don't recommend using a toolkit of any sort. I recommend learning how to use fastboot, and doing it manually. That way if you were to need to fix something in the future, you would have a general understanding of what you did and why, and perhaps that will help you in how to fix it. Rather than clicking a couple buttons in a toolkit. Also, toolkits can fail, and not tell you why. It is often hard to figure out what went wrong when it is doing multiple steps at once, rather than one at a time like if you were to do it the manual way. It really isn't that difficult, and it is very well documented process at this point with tons of guides with pictures and even videos out there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks so much, I actually used adb/fastboot when I was rooting my mytouch 4g so this knowledge should come in handy, one other question if I were to root the latest factory image can I use the MRA58K.img that Chainfire posted for 6.0 or do I have to find a modified boot img that matches the latest factory image which is MRA58R, thank you so much again
Hi all, glad to find this
I have ..., guess what ? a RAZR i (Ok, it's a friend's one) that I repaired changing the mad battery after factory resets didn't do anything. Then found OTA was available, applied and the RAZR i was 4.1.2 IIRC and the new battery went OK. My mistake, another OTA went soon, which I applied too, making the RAZR i a 4.4.2 kitkat piece of crap (no more write access to sdcard, this is well known ... by the ones aware , know I'm one).
Then I thought I could make the phone free and search the web for days to try to understand, found a french forum which said I can't do anything without unlocking the bootloader, what I did.
They directed me there to remove the boot-logo-warning but that's a razr hd thread and nothing worked for me. I can't remember where I read I should have CWM to do this, but as the french guy said he rather like twrp I didn't do anything at the moment, only failed to flash some logo from fastboot with various errors....
Well, I'm there, and it's cool because I hope this is the good place to have answers to questions that are still in my mind for years, and 2/3 new ones... fortunately they'll overlap and self-resolve once I get one. I'm not at all skilled in android, I only flashed a phone in 2010 and that's why I still have android SKD in my ubuntu (I also have a xp box, but I couldn't do anything for my old Acer LiquidMT). As you see, I'm a vintage things amateur (... okay, I'm vintage too).
Now the scene is built, please let me dare ask what still puzzles me :
1) For the Razr i 4.4.2 (french from sfr-vodafone kia20.74 now used with another carrier) do I have to search a specifically dedicated recovery ? Parsing this RAZR i Q&A, I found twrp seems to the preferred recovery, but I'd rather like to get confirmation from skilled ones, and also for version.
2) And please tell me if I'm wrong thinking the [RECOVERY] Unofficial TWRP 3.0.2-0 thread aim is to bring support to the RAZR i which is not supported by official teamw.in ? (BTW, @Hazou, the 1st link in the thread - DataMedia - is dead)
3) Assumed I have to go the TWRP way and I only have currently the stock recovery, do I guess right the only way is download img.zip and extract then do
Code:
./fastboot flash recovery recovery.img
, then only after that the phone can be rooted ?
4) You see I'm puzzled here because I still don't have understood the logical path: is this one the good ? unlock boot loader -> fastboot flash reco -> is the device rooted at this point ? If not, install su from recovery option "install zip from sdcard", then it's done and I get a so called "rooted stock ROM" ? Then only I can figure installing a custom ROM if exists for the RAZR i ?
5) And I should always flash a custom ROM based on the same 4.4.2 android release as my current stock one AND disable OTA updates ?
I read so many threads with guys having issues with hard-bricked RAZR i and all are about ICS and JB, so I wander the only custom are for ICS or JB, and still don't understand why they want to revert back.
Thanks for advices.
1stStep said:
Hi all, glad to find this
I have ..., guess what ? a RAZR i (Ok, it's a friend's one) that I repaired changing the mad battery after factory resets didn't do anything. Then found OTA was available, applied and the RAZR i was 4.1.2 IIRC and the new battery went OK. My mistake, another OTA went soon, which I applied too, making the RAZR i a 4.4.2 kitkat piece of crap (no more write access to sdcard, this is well known ... by the ones aware , know I'm one).
Then I thought I could make the phone free and search the web for days to try to understand, found a french forum which said I can't do anything without unlocking the bootloader, what I did.
They directed me there to remove the boot-logo-warning but that's a razr hd thread and nothing worked for me. I can't remember where I read I should have CWM to do this, but as the french guy said he rather like twrp I didn't do anything at the moment, only failed to flash some logo from fastboot with various errors....
Well, I'm there, and it's cool because I hope this is the good place to have answers to questions that are still in my mind for years, and 2/3 new ones... fortunately they'll overlap and self-resolve once I get one. I'm not at all skilled in android, I only flashed a phone in 2010 and that's why I still have android SKD in my ubuntu (I also have a xp box, but I couldn't do anything for my old Acer LiquidMT). As you see, I'm a vintage things amateur (... okay, I'm vintage too).
Now the scene is built, please let me dare ask what still puzzles me :
1) For the Razr i 4.4.2 (french from sfr-vodafone kia20.74 now used with another carrier) do I have to search a specifically dedicated recovery ? Parsing this RAZR i Q&A, I found twrp seems to the preferred recovery, but I'd rather like to get confirmation from skilled ones, and also for version.
2) And please tell me if I'm wrong thinking the [RECOVERY] Unofficial TWRP 3.0.2-0 thread aim is to bring support to the RAZR i which is not supported by official teamw.in ? (BTW, @Hazou, the 1st link in the thread - DataMedia - is dead)
3) Assumed I have to go the TWRP way and I only have currently the stock recovery, do I guess right the only way is download img.zip and extract then do
Code:
./fastboot flash recovery recovery.img
, then only after that the phone can be rooted ?
4) You see I'm puzzled here because I still don't have understood the logical path: is this one the good ? unlock boot loader -> fastboot flash reco -> is the device rooted at this point ? If not, install su from recovery option "install zip from sdcard", then it's done and I get a so called "rooted stock ROM" ? Then only I can figure installing a custom ROM if exists for the RAZR i ?
5) And I should always flash a custom ROM based on the same 4.4.2 android release as my current stock one AND disable OTA updates ?
I read so many threads with guys having issues with hard-bricked RAZR i and all are about ICS and JB, so I wander the only custom are for ICS or JB, and still don't understand why they want to revert back.
Thanks for advices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey 1stStep,
A lot off assumptions and questions. And most of them are right.
1. Afaik there are 2 recoveries for the RAZR I. Stock and my build TWRP 3.0.2-0 unofficial. (Thanks for the heads up about the link)
2. Answered in 1.
3. Yep. If your bootloader is unlocked it gives u the function to flash non-stock firmware to the phone. Stock firmware are signed to prevent normal users flashing wrong firmware. Firmware consist of a couple of images. Those images contain data for the partition, just like in your PC. Every image does something else. Most known are boot, data, system, recovery and cache. There are many more. Some needed, some unnecessary.
To answer your question: when u have flashed the TWRP recovery u override the stock one. The TWRP can flash zip files and images to the most known device partitions. From here on u can flash a superuser zip(gives root access on the current ROM/system). Make sure u have the right superuser zip. There are many.
4.
Path to root on stock:
Unlock bootloader->install custom recovery (TWRP)->install superuser zip->reboot and test root on device
Path to custom ROM:
Unlock bootloader->install custom recovery (TWRP)->install ROM zip and extra's if needed like (Gapps(needed for Google playstore and more))->reboot and play with your new ROM.
Off course if u already have the bootloader unlocked and installed a custom recovery, u can skip those.
In the recovery u can also make backups, called nandroid backup. Read up on them and everything u wanna do.
5. The only thing u never want/should do is flashing Android 4.0.4 stock firmware without prior modifications. This is because from 4.0.4 to 4.1.2 there was a change in bootloader (the thing u unlock). If u go back it corrupt a part of the firmware which is difficult to overcome or even impossible without some factory stuff. Everything above 4.1.2 is save. And can always be flashed. The latest stock is 4.4.2 (KIA 20.74) and latest available custom ROM is 4.4.4 (CM11 or soon Lineage 11).
Good luck!
Thanks so mush great dev to spend time and even surely repeat yourself (hope you're not under stress) for a newb.
In your answer for path to custom ROM you say "Unlock bootloader->install custom recovery (TWRP)->install ROM zip and extra's if needed like".
Do I have to understand custom ROMs are yet rooted (OOTB), or root yet made on stock will survive flashing the custom (I though flashing a custom was some kind of infant clear brain graft?
BTW, is it general good advice to test recovery before flashing? I found this in Moto Play unofficial recovery 3.0.2-r5 from Vache:
Code:
fastboot boot recovery.img
?
Thanks again
1stStep said:
Thanks so mush great dev to spend time and even surely repeat yourself (hope you're not under stress) for a newb.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not at all , just replying if I have some time.
1stStep said:
In your answer for path to custom ROM you say "Unlock bootloader->install custom recovery (TWRP)->install ROM zip and extra's if needed like".
Do I have to understand custom ROMs are yet rooted (OOTB), or root yet made on stock will survive flashing the custom (I though flashing a custom was some kind of infant clear brain graft?
BTW, is it general good advice to test recovery before flashing? I found this in Moto Play unofficial recovery 3.0.2-r5 from Vache:
Code:
fastboot boot recovery.img
?
Thanks again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
- Most custom roms are prerooted.
- Cyanogenmod/LineageOS are prerooted
- Root installed by a zip will not survive any system flashing (rom flashing)
- Any modification to your system partition will not survive and system flashing (rom flashing), though 1 exception:
- installed gapps package (google apps/play store etc.) will survive system flashing on cyanogenmod based roms. But only when updating the rom to a newer version on the same android version. So:
CM11 version 1 to CM11 version 2. (because of a special script in the install zip)
Pre testing a boot or recovery image is blocked on our bootloader. So u can't do it. It's a shame they did it. Working on any boot or recovery changes is a pain in the spoken ass.
If u flash the recovery with:
Code:
fastboot flash recovery recovery.img
there is nothing to be afraid off. The TWRP 3.0.2-0 recovery is well tested on this device.
Thank you again man for all detailed answer.
You're right, it's a shame all these locked things in our phones. I'm sure the guys that agree (our security, blah blah) with these ways to do won't be so happy the day their computers will be locked the same way.
bye bye Hazou.
[Edit] .... hmmm, how long does it take to flash? Yet a 1/4h elapsed and razr still says "Flashing recovery..."
Please, what is the md5 of the image (not the zip, this you give us)? Thanks
[Edit] : Downloaded twice and get md5sum 60dff26f3ee5e9338ee4a6f8cf7df098
but still same forever Flashing recovery ...
[Edit] : I've been puzzled for days being stuck in endless "Flashing recovery ..."
In the ended I decided, after saying 1 hour waiting a hypothetical "success/congrats message", NOT QUITTING the current fastboot screen, to select the recovery option in this very fastboot menu (on a Razr i : Vol- to highlight recovery item, then Vol+ to select) and bang I was in TWRP menu. What to do next once in, it is another story.
Hi everyone, I want to buy this phone from Aliexpress at 220$, a super cheap price. The only problem is that they sell the phone with their custom rom which is not really the best, and the stock official chinese and english only rom gives the best performance. The problem is that flashing another ROM means that I will lose warranty, there's a way to backup the ROM and keep it stored on my PC so if I flash another ROM and need to send it back can flash again the Aliexpress rom so warranty is somehow restored?
Warranty questions are very theoretical because:
under which circumstances do you think you'll be able to flash original ROM to ship back? When you drop and break it? Because if you brick it accidentally, you can't flash it back either so that's not it.
have you ever looked at trackable shipping back to China? It's suuuuuper long, unreliable, and usually cost prohibitive especially for a device this cheap and fragile. Unless you have a super trusted vendor who's willing to work with you on a valid issue from #1, your device may not even make it back.
Regarding backup, yes, when you first install TWRP, you can do full backup of all partitions and offload them to external storage. This lets you restore original ROM as long as you only use TWRP for loading ROMS and don't flash new firmware via EDL / QPST. So if you want to play with GSI ROMs, you can recover, but once you flash the China ROM via EDL/QPST, there is no going back AFAIK.
miji2 said:
Warranty questions are very theoretical because:
under which circumstances do you think you'll be able to flash original ROM to ship back? When you drop and break it? Because if you brick it accidentally, you can't flash it back either so that's not it.
have you ever looked at trackable shipping back to China? It's suuuuuper long, unreliable, and usually cost prohibitive especially for a device this cheap and fragile. Unless you have a super trusted vendor who's willing to work with you on a valid issue from #1, your device may not even make it back.
Regarding backup, yes, when you first install TWRP, you can do full backup of all partitions and offload them to external storage. This lets you restore original ROM as long as you only use TWRP for loading ROMS and don't flash new firmware via EDL / QPST. So if you want to play with GSI ROMs, you can recover, but once you flash the China ROM via EDL/QPST, there is no going back AFAIK.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, can't I just back-up the original recovery with an app like flashify, install TWRP, back-up the Aliexpress ROM and then install the original stock China ROM?
Then if I have to reinstall the Aliexpress ROM I can just flash TWRP, flash the Ali ROM, delete TWRP and flash the original recovery with adb or flashify.
I mean a lot of times I flashed the original stock ROM on my ZUK Z2, then proceded to flash TWRP and then I flashed a custom ROM again. And they share the same UI, because both are from lenovo
Stock recovery is not an issue because if you boot up the restored ROM for first time after a factory reset, it will replace TWRP with stock recovery on its own whether you like it or not.
On the other hand, flashing backlevel ROMs via TWRP is a problem. Generally speaking, EDL-flashed ROMS replace and update all kinds of data in all sorts of ways where default recovery has no access to (nvram, raw partitions, eFuses, etc). So while it may be possible to make it boot again after back-levelling through recovery, but it's definitely not recommended since there will often be conflicts/incompatibilities and will definitely leave traces of tampering. We would have to have a QPST image of the shipping ROM in order to do it properly (and only if eFuses are not blown to stop that).
And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's impossible. I am saying there are significant risks and we'd have to sacrifice a few devices to find out.
miji2 said:
Stock recovery is not an issue because if you boot up the restored ROM for first time after a factory reset, it will replace TWRP with stock recovery on its own whether you like it or not.
On the other hand, flashing backlevel ROMs via TWRP is a problem. Generally speaking, EDL-flashed ROMS replace and update all kinds of data in all sorts of ways where default recovery has no access to (nvram, raw partitions, eFuses, etc). So while it may be possible to make it boot again after back-levelling through recovery, but it's definitely not recommended since there will often be conflicts/incompatibilities and will definitely leave traces of tampering. We would have to have a QPST image of the shipping ROM in order to do it properly (and only if eFuses are not blown to stop that).
And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's impossible. I am saying there are significant risks and we'd have to sacrifice a few devices to find out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand, anyway I might have found a simple solution. I simply asked the seller if he can ship it with the stock ROM and he said yes, when placing the order I just say I want the stock ROM
Haha .. good thinking!
It will be interesting to see what they actually do and what it comes with. Please post back and let us know.