Related
As everyone knows, Dash and VOOC are basically the same, no need to talk on that. Anything VOOC will work for Dash perfectly.
As for Warp and SuperVOOC, its a bit more complicated, but after doing some research, I think I've cracked the code. Before explain anything, here are the specs of Warp and SuperVOOC respectively
Warp Charge - 5V 6A = 30W
SuperVOOC - 10V 5A = 50W
Ok, so I stumbled across this forum post for the OP6T McLaren Edition, which the discussion is about the SuperVOOC car charger and whether it is compatible with Warp Charge. A user that owns the charger replied that it doesn't charge at full Warp speed, but is faster than Dash charge definitely.
That sparked my interest, I started looking around and found a post in Japanese on Twitter, in which they tested a SuperVOOC powerbank on a OP7Pro and its charging at 5V 5A. Starting to make sense?
So, my guess is, since SuperVOOC is based on a 2-cell battery in the phone in order to work, OP either didn't want to or weren't allowed to do it(or they have other reasons), so they stuck with 1 battery cell in the phone, which only allows up to 5V (SuperVOOC works by having two 5V cells in series so =10V). So OP tweaked the SuperVOOC system to allow 6A instead of 5A, and kept the voltage to 5V, and Warp Charge was born. Since it is a tweaked version of SuperVOOC, it will still have some kind of compatibility with it. Therefore when using a Warp phone(6TMCLaren or OP7Pro), SuperVOOC works but since theres only one battery cell, its only getting 5V, but since its compatible with the SuperVOOC system, it can still get the 5A that SuperVOOC outputs, therefore the user in the forum post i mentioned above was getting faster speeds than Dash using SuperVOOC while slower speeds than Warp.
Conclusion
VOOC=Dash=20W
Warp Phone with Warp = 30W
Warp Phone with SuperVOOC = 25W
So, if you want a 25W charging experience with powerbanks, you can try out SuperVOOC powerbanks.
*Edit: Thinking about it, since OP named it Warp Charge 30, the full 50W version might be coming soon, maybe with the next device? Who knows
did not try yet, but curious what will happen with a warp phone on dash, will it be charged in 20w?
simon07 said:
did not try yet, but curious what will happen with a warp phone on dash, will it be charged in 20w?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yep
JedixJarf said:
yep
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so maybe i could get a dash powerbank?
simon07 said:
so maybe i could get a dash powerbank?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can try? My 1st party oneplus 6t dash charger will dash charge my 7 pro, but my third party car dash charger slow charges my 7 pro, but had no problem dash charging my 6t/6.
KaiHongTan said:
As everyone knows, Dash and VOOC are basically the same, no need to talk on that. Anything VOOC will work for Dash perfectly.
As for Warp and SuperVOOC, its a bit more complicated, but after doing some research, I think I've cracked the code. Before explain anything, here are the specs of Warp and SuperVOOC respectively
Warp Charge - 5V 6A = 30W
SuperVOOC - 10V 5A = 50W
Ok, so I stumbled across this forum post for the OP6T McLaren Edition, which the discussion is about the SuperVOOC car charger and whether it is compatible with Warp Charge. A user that owns the charger replied that it doesn't charge at full Warp speed, but is faster than Dash charge definitely.
That sparked my interest, I started looking around and found a post in Japanese on Twitter, in which they tested a SuperVOOC powerbank on a OP7Pro and its charging at 5V 5A. Starting to make sense?
So, my guess is, since SuperVOOC is based on a 2-cell battery in the phone in order to work, OP either didn't want to or weren't allowed to do it(or they have other reasons), so they stuck with 1 battery cell in the phone, which only allows up to 5V (SuperVOOC works by having two 5V cells in series so =10V). So OP tweaked the SuperVOOC system to allow 6A instead of 5A, and kept the voltage to 5V, and Warp Charge was born. Since it is a tweaked version of SuperVOOC, it will still have some kind of compatibility with it. Therefore when using a Warp phone(6TMCLaren or OP7Pro), SuperVOOC works but since theres only one battery cell, its only getting 5V, but since its compatible with the SuperVOOC system, it can still get the 5A that SuperVOOC outputs, therefore the user in the forum post i mentioned above was getting faster speeds than Dash using SuperVOOC while slower speeds than Warp.
Conclusion
VOOC=Dash=20W
Warp Phone with Warp = 30W
Warp Phone with SuperVOOC = 25W
So, if you want a 25W charging experience with powerbanks, you can try out SuperVOOC powerbanks.
*Edit: Thinking about it, since OP named it Warp Charge 30, the full 50W version might be coming soon, maybe with the next device? Who knows
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good work. I know this thread is old but the amazon.com listing for this charger states OnePlus 7T and 8 Pro are supported up to 25W.
For you who use AccuBattery app to monitor your battery usage, can you share yours?
Because mine is showing my battery health is only 47%. I think it's maybe, just maybe, the app only read half of the battery capacity. Since this phone is actually have two batteries installed in a single pack of battery.
With this phone I got around 6 hours of screen on time with 70% battery usage (from 90 - 20%).
It's normal SOT for this phone right?
I attached my SS from the app. I use version 1.2.7-2 build 45.
Yeah yours are pretty normal. I have a similar results.
Maybe the 50 watt charging is degrading the battery at a rapid pace,
Maybe this app is not very accurate.
I've seen others complaining about this app with other phones but hopefully here it's just estimating one of the two batteries
andrejd1 said:
Yeah yours are pretty normal. I have a similar results.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for sharing. We have the same battery performance.
manus31 said:
Maybe the 50 watt charging is degrading the battery at a rapid pace,
Maybe this app is not very accurate.
I've seen others complaining about this app with other phones but hopefully here it's just estimating one of the two batteries
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pretty sure it's not because the rapid charging, if so the phone is a disaster.
The app is most possible reason.
smart_thingup said:
Thanks for sharing. We have the same battery performance.
Pretty sure it's not because the rapid charging, if so the phone is a disaster.
The app is most possible reason.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's hoping,I'm getting mine next week and I'm already very skeptical of the vooc charging,I've seen nothing from Realme or Oppo in regards to it's testing or how it affects the degradation of battery.Because of this and I want the battery to last a few years I will be charging with a 18w charger,using the vooc charger occasionally
manus31 said:
Here's hoping,I'm getting mine next week and I'm already very skeptical of the vooc charging,I've seen nothing from Realme or Oppo in regards to it's testing or how it affects the degradation of battery.Because of this and I want the battery to last a few years I will be charging with a 18w charger,using the vooc charger occasionally
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At first I also skeptical about the Super VOOC charging, I think it will damage battery faster, especially because of heat while charging.
And then, turns out to be more make sense because it use dual battery. And with my experience using this phone, there's no heat problem while charging. Not from the hand feel and not from the system temparature reading.
Since the charging is super fast, I usually put the phone at idle for about 5 minutes to cool down the phone before charging and put on airplane mode while charging to prevent over hear and keep the battery as cool as possible. After several try different circumstances of charging condition, I think Super VOOC is doing just fine.
smart_thingup said:
At first I also skeptical about the Super VOOC charging, I think it will damage battery faster, especially because of heat while charging.
And then, turns out to be more make sense because it use dual battery. And with my experience using this phone, there's no heat problem while charging. Not from the hand feel and not from the system temparature reading.
Since the charging is super fast, I usually put the phone at idle for about 5 minutes to cool down the phone before charging and put on airplane mode while charging to prevent over hear and keep the battery as cool as possible. After several try different circumstances of charging condition, I think Super VOOC is doing just fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sure it's safe and all very good but I still think it will be too difficult to maintain the battery and make it last a few years. I like to keep the battery between around 40 to 85 and it's not recommend to fully charge modern phone batteries aswell as not fully draining them,there is only so many cycles for the batteries lifetime,around 500 or so,
here we have two batteries but still that does not matter,
I will be using in and around 18w charger but might try my OnePlus charger to see if that is any quicker to find a happy medium
manus31 said:
I'm sure it's safe and all very good but I still think it will be too difficult to maintain the battery and make it last a few years. I like to keep the battery between around 40 to 85 and it's not recommend to fully charge modern phone batteries aswell as not fully draining them,there is only so many cycles for the batteries lifetime,around 500 or so,
here we have two batteries but still that does not matter,
I will be using in and around 18w charger but might try my OnePlus charger to see if that is any quicker to find a happy medium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OnePlus charger will give you VOOC charging. I think that will suit you.
smart_thingup said:
OnePlus charger will give you VOOC charging. I think that will suit you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes should give around 27 to 30 watt charge,that would be perfect.Wil test it and see,getting phone tomorrow according to my national post
manus31 said:
Yes should give around 27 to 30 watt charge,that would be perfect.Wil test it and see,getting phone tomorrow according to my national post
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Got phone today,the 50 watt charge is lightning fast,
My OnePlus 6T charger is also lightning,think it's about 27w charger. My 6T battery must have a problem as the charging has slowed over time on that. I'm only noticing again how fast the dash charger is on the X2 pro
Have been using Accubattery for few days now and have similar stats to you guys,48% battery health and estimated capacity of 1913mAh,
Maybe Accubattery can improve the software for these type of phones which have two separate batteries
have the same result. maybe an update with the app can result in a more accurate reading.
Guys it's normal, this phone has a battery made of 2 1950mAh cells that charge in parallel. This means that Accubattery (which reads the stats based on voltage and current) can only read a single cell charge.
I also read some strange comments here, so let's dismantle a myth: SuperVOOC WON'T damage your battery much more than normal fast charging. Having 50W on a single battery would be absurd, instead this power is distributed between the two cells, resulting in a charge of 5V and 5A per cell (pretty standard, 5V is super safe because it's the same as the cell voltage, and current is similar to other manufacturer quick charge currents). Having 5V input is also better for heat, because it doesn't need conversion (see Qualcomm Quickcharge which can input 5/9/12/15V).
Of course heat is the worst enemy of a battery life, but try not to use it while charging for those 25/30mins needed for a full charge and you'll be good to go.
I hope this clarifies things for people scared of using the boxed charger.
danypava said:
Guys it's normal, this phone has a battery made of 2 1950mAh cells that charge in parallel. This means that Accubattery (which reads the stats based on voltage and current) can only read a single cell charge.
I also read some strange comments here, so let's dismantle a myth: SuperVOOC WON'T damage your battery much more than normal fast charging. Having 50W on a single battery would be absurd, instead this power is distributed between the two cells, resulting in a charge of 5V and 5A per cell (pretty standard, 5V is super safe because it's the same as the cell voltage, and current is similar to other manufacturer quick charge currents). Having 5V input is also better for heat, because it doesn't need conversion (see Qualcomm Quickcharge which can input 5/9/12/15V).
Of course heat is the worst enemy of a battery life, but try not to use it while charging for those 25/30mins needed for a full charge and you'll be good to go.
I hope this clarifies things for people scared of using the boxed charger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was a bit apprehensive about the super vooc at the start but I've only ever used it since I got the phone. I will say it's so much more useful for my use a d I can literally charge it twice a day for 10 to 15 minutes each time.Phone does heat up quite a bit though,like it's warm every time I take it off the charge.
I'm just hoping it will be as quick this time next year and the battery holds out
danypava said:
Guys it's normal, this phone has a battery made of 2 1950mAh cells that charge in parallel. This means that Accubattery (which reads the stats based on voltage and current) can only read a single cell charge.
I also read some strange comments here, so let's dismantle a myth: SuperVOOC WON'T damage your battery much more than normal fast charging. *1 Having 50W on a single battery would be absurd, instead this power is distributed between the two cells, resulting in a charge of 5V and 5A per cell (pretty standard,*2 5V is super safe because it's the same as the cell voltage, and current is similar to other manufacturer quick charge currents). Having 5V input is also better for heat, because it doesn't need conversion (see Qualcomm Quickcharge which can input 5/9/12/15V).
Of course *3 heat is the worst enemy of a battery life, but try not to use it while charging for those 25/30mins needed for a full charge and you'll be good to go.
I hope this clarifies things for people scared of using the boxed charger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*1 - could you elaborate on this here a tad bit more? What is the advantage of pumping power into two cells with total capacity of 4A/h put next to running a single cell with the same amount of power, with the cell being 4A/h too?
*2
This is simply not true. Mass production liPo cells are manufactured with 3.7V nominal voltage, 3V min. voltage and 4.2V max. voltage. When discharging a li-po cell your under-load voltage wouldn't zap anywhere outside the range of 3 - 4.2 volts at any point. If it did you would be saying ciao to that cell in the upcoming month.
According to what Ive learned past the last 12years of dealing with LiPos in my radio controlled aircrafts and, cell phones, smartphones, battery banks and so on and so on.. I am yet to see a mass production lithium cell whose "cell voltage" is 5 volts..? Sooo.. where do you get that from?
Do you have the kind of information that I am struggling to find on the inet right now? Such as who is the outsourced manufacturer of cells for realme? What is the grouping method of the two cells in our x2pro when charging - parallel or series?
The answer on the later two questions will paint it all as to what can we expect from the battery in our phones for the forseeable future.
*3
Heat is the result of charging and discharging the cell at higher than usually considered healthy charging and discharging rates. As far as Im concerned I don't think that realme are in possession of any advanced battery tech, and would be much more oriented towards trustworthy tested day in-day out type of chemistry in their batteries. Specially at the price point of my x2pro.
Taking into consideration that I can only conclude that realme are driving these cells at their maximum tolerance of charging current. I would be pretty entertained if the juice in this device is satisfactory past the 2 year mark. And shocked at the same time.
This has been spoke about before by oppo themselves and is available on the internet, it's 2x batteries at 2000mah each... The batteries are charged at the same time but independently and each battery is monitored at all times for heat etc... Total voltage is split between both to not apply to much pressure and as the batteries are 2000mah each it's obviously Parallel as you get total 4000mah.
Realme x2 pro has two batteries
Hey guys hope you are aware that realme x2 pro has 2 batteries of approximately 2000mah each and not one single 4000mah battery. That is what gives it the charging speed and the battery health is not affected because of the ingenious way VOOC works. You can watch the video on youtube. AccuBattery is not designed for phones with two batteries. Maybe we can expect compatibility for realme x2 pro in a future update.
Ab97 said:
Hey guys hope you are aware that realme x2 pro has 2 batteries of approximately 2000mah each and not one single 4000mah battery. That is what gives it the charging speed and the battery health is not affected because of the ingenious way VOOC works. You can watch the video on youtube. AccuBattery is not designed for phones with two batteries. Maybe we can expect compatibility for realme x2 pro in a future update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just declare it as 2000 mAh and you're good.
To power up, you consume Red Bull. But your phone just needs its adaptive fast charger. Rate this thread to express how quickly the Xiaomi Poco F2 Pro (Redmi K30 Pro) can charge. A higher rating indicates that it charges extremely fast.
Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add!
With the supplied charger and cable the charging time is very impressive ("Turbo Charge") with a normal QC3.0 charger charge time is still very good but comparable to most other QC3.0 devices.
Something to note is the device does get noticeably warm when using the supplied charger in the "Turbo Charge" mode.
Takes about an hour for me with included charger.
murakh said:
With the supplied charger and cable the charging time is very impressive ("Turbo Charge") with a normal QC3.0 charger charge time is still very good but comparable to most other QC3.0 devices.
Something to note is the device does get noticeably warm when using the supplied charger in the "Turbo Charge" mode.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes i noticed it get warm to hot-ish
isn't that bad for the battery?
moreover i noticed that if you charge while turned off it does not get hot
itti_sam said:
yes i noticed it get warm to hot-ish
isn't that bad for the battery?
moreover i noticed that if you charge while turned off it does not get hot
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's normal because you're not using it, if using while charging it will be hot as your running apps, tasks etc... at the same time. This will increase the heat as sensors will be running also.
Has anyone tried to use other cables that has the same turbo charge effect like the included cable? The included cable is too short, usually I use 2 meters long cable.
I have tried the baseus 5A 40W cable but it only support quick charging and not turbo.
I've tested charging wattage using original 33W charger and original USB cable via specialized USB tester, and I noticed it provides only 25W (about 9.6V/2.65A). It shows "Turbo Charge" indeed, but it's still only 75% efficient. Anyone care to explain this? Is this normal? I've read that only Zoom edition can be charged at 33W, so I expected non-Zoom edition will charge at least with 30W. I tried two other USB cables, and still only 25W. Later today I will try to charge it with Blitzwolf 30W PD charger and see how it goes with that one...
I haven't really tested charge speeds. So far the battery life has been exceptional and the main reason I opted for this phone without the high res screen and refresh rate, as see battery as more essential. I would much prefer charging at a slow speed to preserve battery life. A good app for this is AccuBattery. It measures how many mAh's being charged and discharged after each charge and keeps a graph. It will estimate battery health also.
Yeah I know about AccuBattery, I've been using it in the past. But a real physical tester device is always more precise. I do sw/hw development for a living so I know for a fact. Indeed, battery life is very good because optimized MIUI and pretty big battery, but it would be even better if charging speed was also up to the specs. Meanwhile I've tested charging speed using Blitzwolf 30W PD2.0 charger (K30Pro should support PD3.0 and be backward compatible), and situation is even worse - only about 15-16W at QC3.0 I believe. So no Turbo Charge was initiated. I mean 25W with original charger is still good, but I expected advertised charging speed. I'll do more tests when I catch some time.
Thats normal, because it don't charge all the time with 30W. Compare it with WARP Charge 30T it is faster. OnePlus 8 got 30W and 4300 mAh, F2 Pro is faster with bigger bettery but it's almost the same.
How old is your Blitzwolf charger?
I know it shouldn't charge @30W above 80-90%, but sure it should at 20-ish where I'm at about now. It's also not even cool to the touch, so there's no apparent reason to slow it to 25W. My Blitzwolf charger is about a year old, but I only used it couple of times, so it should be as good as new.
itti_sam said:
yes i noticed it get warm to hot-ish
isn't that bad for the battery?
moreover i noticed that if you charge while turned off it does not get hot
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Batteries don't like heat but it is actively monitored and it will slow down charging when it crosses temperature threshold.
That's why I mentioned my phone is not even cool to the touch (let alone hot), so my case is not temperature related. I'll try to charge it while turned off, though it was pretty much in idle doing nothing when I did the test, ie. not stressed at all by any factor. All in all, I mean if everyone else gets 25W out of original charger, I won't bother anymore. Also, if it charges from 10-90% in around 1 hour, I won't waste any more time on this either, since it's good enough for me. I was just curious why it charges at 25W, when 30W (and 33W for Zoom edition) was advertised. Altough it wouldn't be the first time something was advertised at launch, and not achievable in real-case scenario.
Burs said:
I'll try to charge it while turned off...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fun fact: phone doesn't charge when powered off?! That's a first. Is it just me, or am I getting too old? For the whole time I'm talking about my Redmi, not to confuse it with Poco, if that matters at all. Maybe Poco works differently.
On my Huawei device you also can not turn off an charge but this starts with Android 10.
takes about 1 hour and 20 minutes for me, I think the high temperature here, summer season, is the reason for this slow charging speed.
From 20-100% in about an hour. Few minutes less actually. Battery is big, that's all ok.
F2 turn off and are dead with 0% (can't turn on). Timer 60 min. and after 60 min. I got 96% with original charger. The phone don't turn on, like it always do.
@Burs a friend told me "on my Anker charger I only can use PD over the third usb port, with the type c port it will charge over QC 3.0 and not over PD" maybe thats why you get ~16W?
When my Redmi was turned off completey, it was hooked up to my USB tester for about a minute. I doubt it would trigger after some minutes, and only then start charging. For the whole time it was connected, I was getting 5V / 0.015A readings on the display. That's pretty much USB tester drawing the power from the phone battery, not the charger! So that would mean charging was completely disabled making the phone behave as a power bank lol. Weird enough, right?
My Blitzwolf charger has only two ports. One PD2.0 (USB-C) and one QC3.0 (USB-A). I've tried three sets of USB cables (one even 5A) on both ports, and best I could get out of it was about 15W. I think I'll have to order another one with PD3.0 and Turbo Charge compatibility.
Heh I'm planning on just using my old 1A slow chargers because they're dotted around the house and work, will probably not even plug fast charger in. Magnetic cables are just so convenient.
I'm looking for recommendations for a charging station (or multi port charger) that will activate super fast charging on my S21 Ultra. I'm looking for at least 3 or 4 ports. I see a lot of stuff that say up to 100 watt charging but none really say if they activate super fast charging on samsung phones. If it can 45 watt super fast charge my tab s7 plus also would be a big bonus.
mmafighter077 said:
I'm looking for recommendations for a charging station (or multi port charger) that will activate super fast charging on my S21 Ultra. I'm looking for at least 3 or 4 ports. I see a lot of stuff that say up to 100 watt charging but none really say if they activate super fast charging on samsung phones. If it can 45 watt super fast charge my tab s7 plus also would be a big bonus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is your country ?
If by any chance you are from india , get this , i have it and it does superfast charging at 25w ( max current for s21 ultra )
AMX XP 60 PD 4-Port 62W Wall Charger (45W USB-C Power Delivery PPS 3.0) & (17W USB-A 3-Port) - Compatible with Galaxy/Note, iPhone 12, iPad Air/Pro, MacBook Air/Pro, LG, ASUS, Pixel, Others : Amazon.in: Computers & Accessories
AMX XP 60 PD 4-Port 62W Wall Charger (45W USB-C Power Delivery PPS 3.0) & (17W USB-A 3-Port) - Compatible with Galaxy/Note, iPhone 12, iPad Air/Pro, MacBook Air/Pro, LG, ASUS, Pixel, Others : Amazon.in: Computers & Accessories
www.amazon.in
25 watts is as much as I go with for this generation of Li cells.
45 watts doesn't charge that much faster and creates even more heat, stressing the battery especially on the deeper charge cycles.
Just replaced a swollen Li on my Note 10+.
I'm lucky it didn't damage the display... that's what you're risking. The bag pack Li's aren't very robust... I torn one apart recently.
If you go with none OEM cables and chargers they may or may not work. Troubleshooting fast charging issues is a real pain as it is.
I just got done learning that
Adding more potential variables will only add to the trouble when troubleshooting.
aj7400 said:
What is your country ?
If by any chance you are from india , get this , i have it and it does superfast charging at 25w ( max current for s21 ultra )
AMX XP 60 PD 4-Port 62W Wall Charger (45W USB-C Power Delivery PPS 3.0) & (17W USB-A 3-Port) - Compatible with Galaxy/Note, iPhone 12, iPad Air/Pro, MacBook Air/Pro, LG, ASUS, Pixel, Others : Amazon.in: Computers & Accessories
AMX XP 60 PD 4-Port 62W Wall Charger (45W USB-C Power Delivery PPS 3.0) & (17W USB-A 3-Port) - Compatible with Galaxy/Note, iPhone 12, iPad Air/Pro, MacBook Air/Pro, LG, ASUS, Pixel, Others : Amazon.in: Computers & Accessories
www.amazon.in
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you. I'm in the United States.
blackhawk said:
25 watts is as much as I go with for this generation of Li cells.
45 watts doesn't charge that much faster and creates even more heat, stressing the battery especially on the deeper charge cycles.
Just replaced a swollen Li on my Note 10+.
I'm lucky it didn't damage the display... that's what you're risking. The bag pack Li's aren't very robust... I torn one apart recently.
If you go with none OEM cables and chargers they may or may not work. Troubleshooting fast charging issues is a real pain as it is.
I just got done learning that
Adding more potential variables will only add to the trouble when troubleshooting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Luckily i have dozens of oem Samsung usb cables.
mmafighter077 said:
Luckily i have dozens of oem Samsung usb cables.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The original one that came with my 10+ after a year and a half is still functional.
It's gotten heavy use.
It outlived the battery
The 25 w brick/cable can be had for $20 now... I know because I pick up a pair when troubleshooting fast charging... now I have two. Yes, well... I'm more conservative now with charging limiting the time/% as well temperature and rarely going under 40% or over 80%.
Most times I use a damp microfiber cloth to cool the charge cycle as even a 20% midrange charge can top out at over 100°F. New batteries soak up more current faster and the waste heat comes with that when fast charging.
Li charging itself is a weak endothermic reaction but the resistive heat produced greatly outweighs that lesser factor.
My thoughts on the charging situation with the S21 Ultra
In the newer S21 series (as with the Note 20 Ultra), 45W super fast charging 2.0 support has been dropped (I suspect it has something to do with the findings stemming out of the Note 7 battery fiasco investigation). From the reports I've read, they seem to have invested a lot of money and resources in studying battery safety after that embarassment, and have a new lab dedicated to studying battery and charging safety.
Max supported input wattage on the S21 series is 25W (so called superfast charging) and then there is the regular 15W "fast" charging. There's also 9W and 15W wireless charging (latter only available vis proprietary Samsung wireless charger)
There isn't a very big difference in the charging times between the OEM 15W and 25W Samsung adapters - there's a differnce yes, but its not a huge margin - definitely not what a 66% higher wattage charger should provide (25W over 15W).
Heating during cable charging is present on the S21U both with the 15W and the 25W charger, way more than what I have experienced with Warp charge on my OnePlus phone. This is despite the much higher wattage used by OnePlus, thanks to the VOOC implementation from Oppo, with lower voltages and higher amperages, and letting the charging brick do most of the thermal dissipation rather than the phone. Samsung on the other hand uses USB PD 3.0 + PPS standards.
If you're using a wireless charger without a built in fan, you get an even hotter phone than with the 25W cable charging, despite a lesser charge throughput. It's objectively worse for battery longevity because the battery is kept at the higher temperatures much longer due to the slower charging speed. Heat and Li batteries don't mix well.
From my limited experience with various charging standards and different phone brands, my conclusions about the S21 ultra are as follows:
1. Regular cable charging works just fine on the S21U. I use regular QC 2.0 chargers lying around at home and they work fine for charging up the phone without wearing out the battery. I plug in the phone whenever i am not using the phone, like for 15 to 20 mins at a time and most battery experts say that multiple small top up charges are better than a high stress pedal-to-the-metal full charge.
2. 15W is the fast charger of choice that I would charge the S21 Ultra with, if I needed a quicker boost on a nearly flat battery. 25W performance doesn't justify the extra cost of the brick. If you already have a 25W charger, then use that - what I'm saying is, there's no point buying one thinking it will charge 66% faster than the 15W charger.
3. I avoid Wireless charging on the S21U with third party Qi chargers (these only charge at 10W or lower). The phone really heats up depending on the charger - and then safety protocols slow down the charging speed even further on an already inefficient power delivery system. I would either use the OEM Samsung fast wireless charger (15W) with built in cooling, or none at all. This ensures minimum charge time to full and active fan cooling - least thermal stress is what I'd look for here.
4. My phone's battery charge level usually ranges from 20% to 90% - i try not to let it run down to flat or charge up all the way to 100%. If it does so occasionally, it's fine - the phone can handle it. I just try not to let it happen all the time. Have you noticed how fast the battery falls from 100 to 99? and then to 95... but it takes way longer for it to drop after that? 100% charge is a very unstable state for the battery 85-90% is the sweet spot. And around 50% is the most stable state. This is why Li Ion batteries are shipped at near 50% charge by most smartphone manufacturers to provide longest shelf life (the company has no way of knowing how long the phone is going to sit on the shelves before being sold)
5. I don't charge my phone overnight. I know that good chargers stop supplying power once battery reports 100% charge, but it starts charging up again when battery drops to 99%, charges it back to 100 in a few mins, then it cuts out and battery drops again and the cycle continues many times during the night till you take your phone off the charger. We know 0% and 100% battery level are the highest stress states for a battery - yet we leave the charger connected overnight, maintaining the battery at 100% for 6 to 8 hours at high electrochemical stress level.
All this is inconsequential if you change phones every year. You can do anything with your phone if you aren't planning to keep it for very long. I personally use my phones for 2-3 years and like to keep the battery is as good shape as possible. The above charging discipline has helped me maintain good battery health on all my devices for an average of 2.5 years each.
Some readers may not agree with my assessment and recommendations. Please feel free to disregard them and follow whatever has been working for you over the years. My use case and lifestyle may be very different from yours and consequently your charging habits will vary. That is fine.
This is not a directive from me to anyone, nor am i a battery expert. These are just my observations and advice for people that may be looking for it. If you've already figured out your best cahrging protocol, I'm happy it works for you.
enigmaamit said:
My thoughts on the charging situation with the S21 Ultra
snipped...
This is not a directive from me to anyone, nor am i a battery expert. These are just my observations and advice for people that may be looking for it. If you've already figured out your best cahrging protocol, I'm happy it works for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
great assessment. Thank you for putting the time into writing it.
enigmaamit said:
My thoughts on the charging situation with the S21 Ultra
In the newer S21 series, 45W support has been dropped (I suspect it has something to do with the findings from the Note 7 battery fiasco investigation).
Max supported is 25W (so called superfast charging) and the regular 15W "fast" charging. There's also 9W and 15W wireless charging (latter only available vis proprietary Samsung wireless charger)
There isn't a very big difference in the charging times between the OEM 15W and 25W Samsung adapters - there's a differnce yes, but its not a huge margin - definitely not what a 66% higher wattage charger should provide (25W over 15W). At best you get a 10% faster charge with the 25W brick.
Heating is present on the S21U both with the 15W and even more so with the 25W charger, way more than what I have experienced with Warp charge on OnePlus. This is despite the much higher wattage used by OnePlus, thanks to the VOOC implementation from Oppo, where the charging brick does most of the thermal dissipation rather than the phone. Samsung on the other hand uses USB PD and PPS standards.
If you're using a wireless charger without a built in fan, you get an even hotter phone than with the 25W cable charging, despite a much lesser charge throughput. It's objectively worse for battery longevity because the battery is kept at the higher temperatures much longer due to the slower charging speed. Heat and Li batteries don't mix well.
From my limited experience with various charging standards and different phone brands, my conclusions about the S21 ultra are as follows:
1. Regular cable charging works just fine on the S21U. I use regular QC 2.0 chargers lying around at home and they work fine for charging up the phone without wearing out the battery. I plug in the phone whenever i am not using the phone, like for 15 to 20 mins at a time and most battery experts say that multiple small top up charges are better than a high stress pedal-to-the-metal full charge.
2. 15W is the fast charger of choice that I would charge the S21 Ultra with, if I needed a quicker boost on a nearly flat battery. 25W performance doesn't justify the extra cost of the brick as well as the extra heat generated. If you already have a 25W charger, then use that - what I'm saying is, there's no point buying one thinking it will charge 66% faster than the 15W charger.
3. I avoid Wireless charging on the S21U with third party Qi chargers. The phone really heats up depending on the charger - and then safety protocols slow down the charging speed even further on an already inefficient power delivery system. I would either use the OEM Samsung fast wireless charger (15W) with built in cooling, or none at all. This ensures minimum charge time to full and active fan cooling - least thermal stress is what I'd look for here.
4. My phone's battery charge level usually ranges from 20% to 90% - i try not to let it run down to flat or charge up all the way to 100%. If it does so occasionally, it's fine - the phone can handle it. I just try not to let it happen all the time. Have you noticed how fast the battery falls from 100 to 99? and then to 95... but it takes way longer for it to drop after that? 100% charge is a very unstable state for the battery 85-90% is the sweet spot. And around 50% is the most stable state. This is why Li Ion batteries are shipped at near 50% charge by most smartphone manufacturers to provide longest shelf life (the company has no way of knowing how long the phone is going to sit on the shelves before being sold)
5. I don't charge my phone overnight. I know that good chargers stop supplying power once battery reports 100% charge, but it starts charging up again when battery drops to 99%, charges it back to 100 in a few mins, then it cuts out and battery drops again and the cycle continues many times during the night till you take your phone off the charger. We know 0% and 100% battery level are the highest stress states for a battery - yet we leave the charger connected overnight, maintaining the battery at 100% for 6 to 8 hours at high electrochemical stress level.
All this is inconsequential if you change phones every year. You can do anything with your phone if you aren't planning to keep it for very long. I personally use my phones for 2-3 years and like to keep the battery is as good shape as possible. The above charging discipline has helped me maintain good battery health on all my devices for an average of 2.5 years each.
Some readers may not agree with my assessment and recommendations. Please feel free to disregard them and follow whatever has been working for you over the years. My use case and lifestyle may be very different from yours and consequently your charging habits will vary. That is fine.
This is not a directive from me to anyone, nor am i a battery expert. These are just my observations and advice for people that may be looking for it. If you've already figured out your best cahrging protocol, I'm happy it works for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On my Note 10+ it fast charges at about 2%@minute until about 80%. Much faster than a 15 watt brick can at 1%@minute in snail mode.
On the N10+ it has to have a 25 watt brick for fast charging to engage. I believe this is true with all Samsung models that support fast charging.
For brief midrange charging which Li's prefer, it's perfect. A damp microfiber cloth and/or a fan to keep it cool.
The temperature rise is due to resistance mostly in the battery it's self rather than the method of charge. More VA per minute, more heat*.
Samsung ditch the 45 watt brick because it was only a small increase in speed mostly in the 5-20% charge range I believe it was. This had nothing to do with the N7 fireballs. However a full charge with a 45 watt brick is the most battery stressful charging routine.
Honestly I'm not worried about longevity of the battery on my phone. I usually only keep a phone from 6 to 8 months. I just want something that works.
mmafighter077 said:
Honestly I'm not worried about longevity of the battery on my phone. I usually only keep a phone from 6 to 8 months. I just want something that works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not either anymore. I now know that changing out my N10+ battery is well within my skillset comfort zone. I could switch to slow charge midrange partial charges vs fast midrange partial if I wanted maximum life.
I just don't want to get too stupid about it*.
A swollen battery is an immediate threat.
That should be a consideration as an "event" can be painful and de$tructive.
"My pants, My Pants are on fire!" Bah-ha-ha-ha
I've had things blow up on me and onto me... better think and move real fast, and be lucky.
It's always better not to test your limits as eventually you'll discover them.
*sleeping with a charging Li is a bad idea. In the very rare instance were an event to occur it could easily be the last one for you. Anyone who's been sleeping when a fire broke out knows this.
Some of us already know people who died sleeping during a fire as well. As you get older you will too
blackhawk said:
I'm not either anymore. I now know that changing out my N10+ battery is well within my skillset comfort zone. I could switch to slow charge midrange partial charges vs fast midrange partial if I wanted maximum life.
I just don't want to get too stupid about it*.
A swollen battery is an immediate threat.
That should be a consideration as an "event" can be painful and de$tructive.
"My pants, My Pants are on fire!" Bah-ha-ha-ha
I've had things blow up on me and onto me... better think and move real fast, and be lucky.
It's always better not to test your limits as eventually you'll discover them.
*sleeping with a charging Li is a bad idea. In the very rare instance were an event to occur it could easily be the last one for you. Anyone who's been sleeping when a fire broke out knows this.
Some of us already know people who died sleeping during a fire as well. As you get older you will too
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For a 15-watt wireless charge (S21 ultra); a 25 watt wired charge (S21 ultra) and a wired charge 45 watts (TabS7+), I use this from AMAZON: AUKEY USB charger 60 W Power Delivery 3.0 - 2 USB power ports for MacBook Pro, Dell XPS, iPhone 11 Pro Max SE, Galaxy S10, iPad Pro, AirPods Pro, Pixel 4XL, Switch
USB C Chargeur AUKEY 72W 3-port Chargeur Rapide avec 60W USB Power Delivery 3.0 Secteur Mural USB pour MacBook Pro, Dell XPS, iPhone 11 Pro Max SE, Galaxy S10, iPad Pro, AirPods Pro, Pixel 4XL, Switch: Amazon.fr: High-tech
USB C Chargeur AUKEY 72W 3-port Chargeur Rapide avec 60W USB Power Delivery 3.0 Secteur Mural USB pour MacBook Pro, Dell XPS, iPhone 11 Pro Max SE, Galaxy S10, iPad Pro, AirPods Pro, Pixel 4XL, Switch: Amazon.fr: High-tech
www.amazon.fr
Pascal536 said:
For a 15-watt wireless charge (S21 ultra); a 25 watt wired charge (S21 ultra) and a wired charge 45 watts (TabS7+), I use this from AMAZON: AUKEY USB charger 60 W Power Delivery 3.0 - 2 USB power ports for MacBook Pro, Dell XPS, iPhone 11 Pro Max SE, Galaxy S10, iPad Pro, AirPods Pro, Pixel 4XL, Switch
USB C Chargeur AUKEY 72W 3-port Chargeur Rapide avec 60W USB Power Delivery 3.0 Secteur Mural USB pour MacBook Pro, Dell XPS, iPhone 11 Pro Max SE, Galaxy S10, iPad Pro, AirPods Pro, Pixel 4XL, Switch: Amazon.fr: High-tech
USB C Chargeur AUKEY 72W 3-port Chargeur Rapide avec 60W USB Power Delivery 3.0 Secteur Mural USB pour MacBook Pro, Dell XPS, iPhone 11 Pro Max SE, Galaxy S10, iPad Pro, AirPods Pro, Pixel 4XL, Switch: Amazon.fr: High-tech
www.amazon.fr
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
15 watts, got you. I never use wireless or power charge; too inefficient.
Still considering removing that antenna. A substitute sheet of graphene might improve heat transfer performance and characteristics.
I have had my OnePlus 10 Pro for about a week now and have been experiencing unusually slow charging from the get go.
I do not use the OnePlus warp charger, I choose to charge my phone on a 10W wireless charger. I have two of these chargers and with either of them or when using the supplied cable and charging block, I never see above 250mA while charging.
The photo attached is a screenshot of Ampere after placing the phone on one of my wireless chargers and waiting around 20 minutes.
My previous OnePlus, the OnePlus 8 Pro, charges at around 870mA on both wireless chargers.
When the phone is charging, it does get warm to the touch, warmer than my OnePlus 8 Pro on the same charger.
Is anyone else experiencing this issue?
I have attempted to open a support ticket with OnePlus, but they are not providing solutions or reasoning for why my device is charging so slowly.
My device is rooted, however, this issue existed before root and persisted after rooting.
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Go buy the oneplus wireless charger
Rxlhsye67 said:
I do not use the OnePlus warp charger
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's probably why
g96818 said:
Go buy the oneplus wireless charger
That's probably why
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This issue occurs even when charging by cable, with the one plus cable and wall charger that came in the box.
Rxlhsye67 said:
I have two of these chargers and with either of them or when using the supplied cable and charging block, I never see above 250mA while charging.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Still have my 8 pro in hand rn. While my 8pro LOS out performs the bloated 10 pro in crappy oos. Warp charging on the 10 pro outperformed the 8. We are talking in minutes. Both get warm during warp charge and to the hand very negligible difference in heat.
You've already answered your own question mate .
The OnePlus charger is excellent, 30 mins and you're done.
If it has to be wireless then stay on brand
For me, the OnePlus charger is faster than a speeding bullet ,etc....
galaxys said:
For me, the OnePlus charger is faster than a speeding bullet ,etc....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's mental. Love it
Apologies for not explaining this correctly.
I am not here to debate or complain that I am seeing slower speeds using a non-OnePlus charger.
I am here to ask if anyone else is seeing slow charging speeds on this device when compared to another device.
My OnePlus 10 Pro is charging almost 4x slower than my OnePlus 8 Pro with identical charging situations: charger, cable, power block.
According to Ampere, my OnePlus 10 Pro is charging at 220mA while my OnePlus 8 Pro on the exact same charger is charging at 820mA.
What would be causing this?
This must be some sort of hardware or software issue.
I am trying to avoid doing a full factory reset, but I cannot come up with any other ideas or things to try.
Rxlhsye67 said:
Apologies for not explaining this correctly.
I am not here to debate or complain that I am seeing slower speeds using a non-OnePlus charger.
I am here to ask if anyone else is seeing slow charging speeds on this device when compared to another device.
My OnePlus 10 Pro is charging almost 4x slower than my OnePlus 8 Pro with identical charging situations: charger, cable, power block.
According to Ampere, my OnePlus 10 Pro is charging at 220mA while my OnePlus 8 Pro on the exact same charger is charging at 820mA.
What would be causing this?
This must be some sort of hardware or software issue.
I am trying to avoid doing a full factory reset, but I cannot come up with any other ideas or things to try.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey no I did understand mate. I'm not personally seeing that however it's difficult to compare what experience you're having Vs ours. Plus you have your phone machine learning your habits and when to restrict the charge going through your phone (I'm assuming you haven't turned optimised charging off?)
So with that said your phones seeing a non standard charger and is probably doing the right thing, just stick with your warp charger mate, let's be honest you need it for such a small amount of time.
If you have to use another charger, turn off optimised charging.
Mine was slower compared to my 8 pro on an Apple Mac charger (80watts)
But yea probably the phone either confused or bring protective
Hi, I'm from India and I bought my OnePlus 10 Pro. It is charging quickly for me.
Rxlhsye67 said:
I have had my OnePlus 10 Pro for about a week now and have been experiencing unusually slow charging from the get go.
I do not use the OnePlus warp charger, I choose to charge my phone on a 10W wireless charger. I have two of these chargers and with either of them or when using the supplied cable and charging block, I never see above 250mA while charging.
The photo attached is a screenshot of Ampere after placing the phone on one of my wireless chargers and waiting around 20 minutes.
My previous OnePlus, the OnePlus 8 Pro, charges at around 870mA on both wireless chargers.
When the phone is charging, it does get warm to the touch, warmer than my OnePlus 8 Pro on the same charger.
Is anyone else experiencing this issue?
I have attempted to open a support ticket with OnePlus, but they are not providing solutions or reasoning for why my device is charging so slowly.
My device is rooted, however, this issue existed before root and persisted after rooting.
View attachment 5593063
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hve you set your oneplus to optimise for night charging ? in that case it will trickle charge. But Seriously if you want wireless charging buy the airvooc cradle and use it with a 65 watt charger... Its lightning fast with the 80 watt charger that came with the oneplus 10. I am having some spotty results with a supervooc 65 watt charger and the airvooc cradle as its not a s fast even though it does show airvooc in the battery section. I believe the oneplus 10 pro has two batteries that charge in tandem. I tried to use my old 5 watt wireless charger but it barely managed to keep a constant battery level. So i would suggest to invest in a better wireless cradle.
The problem is that android does not report the correct ampere. It seeam to be a Problem with the dual battery system.. You must double the Value. If I measure on the usb directly then this value matches the charging current Multiplied by 2
Rxlhsye67 said:
Apologies for not explaining this correctly.
I am not here to debate or complain that I am seeing slower speeds using a non-OnePlus charger.
I am here to ask if anyone else is seeing slow charging speeds on this device when compared to another device.
My OnePlus 10 Pro is charging almost 4x slower than my OnePlus 8 Pro with identical charging situations: charger, cable, power block.
According to Ampere, my OnePlus 10 Pro is charging at 220mA while my OnePlus 8 Pro on the exact same charger is charging at 820mA.
What would be causing this?
This must be some sort of hardware or software issue.
I am trying to avoid doing a full factory reset, but I cannot come up with any other ideas or things to try.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the same issue at the the begining when I used old op cable that I already have. I replaced it with the cable that came in the package and strated to charge very fast. May be this is the same problem
Rxlhsye67 said:
Apologies for not explaining this correctly.
I am not here to debate or complain that I am seeing slower speeds using a non-OnePlus charger.
I am here to ask if anyone else is seeing slow charging speeds on this device when compared to another device.
My OnePlus 10 Pro is charging almost 4x slower than my OnePlus 8 Pro with identical charging situations: charger, cable, power block.
According to Ampere, my OnePlus 10 Pro is charging at 220mA while my OnePlus 8 Pro on the exact same charger is charging at 820mA.
What would be causing this?
This must be some sort of hardware or software issue.
I am trying to avoid doing a full factory reset, but I cannot come up with any other ideas or things to try.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've seen this problem on multiple OP phones - the only solution I've found is to use a charger that can do at least 18W - anything less and charging is extremely slow. Factory reset doesn't help.
tthiwttn989 said:
I've seen this problem on multiple OP phones - the only solution I've found is to use a charger that can do at least 18W - anything less and charging is extremely slow. Factory reset doesn't help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for a real reply to my issue.
I've arrived at the same discovery that you have. Factory reset twice with no luck. Sad to think this phone is an "upgrade" from my OP8 Pro. Android auto with Google maps is basically unusable since my phone dies faster than it charges through USB in my car.
Rxlhsye67 said:
Android auto with Google maps is basically unusable since my phone dies faster than it charges through USB in my car.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This used to happen with my OP6 in my old car. Try using red cable that comes with handset.
I've the simmilar Problem with my New Oneplus 10 Pro.
AT home with the Warpcharger or my old regular IQ Charge I've nice charging speed.
Ampere told me Ranges between 1500 mAh (reg. Charger) and round about 4000mAh with Warpcharger.
But in my New car on build in usb-c Charger or wireless Charger (build-in too) not more than 180mAh.
Tried all options I've found in the phone settings but no other result.
That sucks and makes me angry.
My old blackview phone Charge in this car with round about 1500 mAh. The oneplus not.
Why? Oneplus Support cannot help.
Any Tips Form me?
Kind regards,
Chris
dhchris said:
I've the simmilar Problem with my New Oneplus 10 Pro.
AT home with the Warpcharger or my old regular IQ Charge I've nice charging speed.
Ampere told me Ranges between 1500 mAh (reg. Charger) and round about 4000mAh with Warpcharger.
But in my New car on build in usb-c Charger or wireless Charger (build-in too) not more than 180mAh.
Tried all options I've found in the phone settings but no other result.
That sucks and makes me angry.
My old blackview phone Charge in this car with round about 1500 mAh. The oneplus not.
Why? Oneplus Support cannot help.
Any Tips Form me?
Kind regards,
Chris
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After a very painful month and a half of emailing back and forth I eventually was able to send my device to the OnePlus service center. About a week later my phone showed up on my porch unannounced with no paperwork on what was done. I again had to through the pain of trying to communicate with their "support" and have just recently found out they replaced the main board and I think the battery in my phone.
Absolutely nothing has changed. Experiencing about the same speed you are when charging in my car. No difference before or after the service.
I am still fighting with OnePlus to determine why this is an issue. Also trying to return this device for a refund but I'm having very little success on either issue.
Rxlhsye67 said:
Apologies for not explaining this correctly.
I am not here to debate or complain that I am seeing slower speeds using a non-OnePlus charger.
I am here to ask if anyone else is seeing slow charging speeds on this device when compared to another device.
My OnePlus 10 Pro is charging almost 4x slower than my OnePlus 8 Pro with identical charging situations: charger, cable, power block.
According to Ampere, my OnePlus 10 Pro is charging at 220mA while my OnePlus 8 Pro on the exact same charger is charging at 820mA.
What would be causing this?
This must be some sort of hardware or software issue.
I am trying to avoid doing a full factory reset, but I cannot come up with any other ideas or things to try.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huge temperature difference. Although I am on a different phone, my pixel 6 pro stops charging at 104 F.... Maybe the charge is being throttled secondary to the phone's temperature. You should consider allowing the phone to cool to see if the temp is playing a role.
mkhcb said:
Huge temperature difference. Although I am on a different phone, my pixel 6 pro stops charging at 104 F.... Maybe the charge is being throttled secondary to the phone's temperature. You should consider allowing the phone to cool to see if the temp is playing a role.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This could be a reason after extended charging, however, my issue starts from the second I plug my phone in. Ampere gives you CPU temp while charging and I am generally under 35C (95F) when charging.
I've done everything I can think of to account for any external reason for poor charging. I am convinced the issue is the device.
I have attempted a few tricks from the past by using the magisk module "Advanced Charging Controller" (ACC) and tweaking some charging settings but have had no luck.