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[Q] Wanting to see if anyone else would like to complain to Motorola

I first wanted to see if anyone else was annoyed with this phone as I am. If that was the case, then I wanted to have a mass complaint to Motorola because I honestly feel cheated by this phone. Since upgrading to 5.0 I really feel like this phone has just been incomplete. The software has been so buggy that I have found myself hating my phone, something I have never experience with an Android phone ever. I would have liked to have sold this phone and gone with something else, but I happened to drop it soon after getting it and I fell like nobody would buy it with the cosmetic damage done to it. My complaints honestly deal with just 5.0 in general and the memory leak issue, but I feel like Motorola should have done something about it much sooner. Considering the 5.0 update has been out for quite a few months now and my phone is the slowest and laggiest phone I have used since the OG Droid.
Does anybody else feel this strongly about this? I have the XT1096 by the way (Verizon model). I paid like 600$ for an incomplete phone. The hardware is great, albeit a small battery, but the software has been so terrible to me.

No complaints here
Sent from my XT1095 using XDA Free mobile app

Yeah no complaints here. Wipe your phone.

There is other threads dedicated to the memory leak issue, you guys aren't experiencing it?

Man the 5.0 update bugs is not moto's fault it is google's they rushed with its release the 5.0 deteriorates performance on all phones

utk_spartan said:
Man the 5.0 update bugs is not moto's fault it is google's they rushed with its release the 5.0 deteriorates performance on all phones
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I love blaming Google for stuff just as much as the next guy, but I'm having far more trouble on my Moto X. I used 5.0 on my Nexus 5 for a couple weeks before I got my Moto X and the only real issue I had was battery life. On my Moto X I am getting frequent issues with apps force closing (including built-in apps), data connection issues, bluetooth problems, etc... And yes, I performed a factory reset and saw the same issues with a "clean" phone.

I'm having none of these issues. The only problem I am having is Smart Lock not working, but I am about 99% sure it is because my firm's AirWatch policies are overriding my Smart Lock settings and preventing it from remaining unlocked while connected to my home WiFi. I occasionally have the problem where when someone calls, my phone vibrates like someone is calling, but it does not show up on the display or give me the option to answer until I lock my phone. I've narrowed this down to only happening in my apartment, so I again think this is related to AirWatch vs Smart Lock conflicts. No other problems on my end; I'm happy I purchased this phone (used, pure edition, for only $340 instead of full price). And I hated the Moto X 2013, so I'm definitely not a fanboy or anything.

jdubya42 said:
I first wanted to see if anyone else was annoyed with this phone
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Yup. But I was annoyed at the orig. Moto X as well. Moto makes great hardware (why I'm a fan), but their software has always sucked. It took until 4.4.4 for them to get all of their advertised features to work properly on the orig X.
IIRC, the new Moto X was flawless on 4.4.4. It was a mistake to update to 5.0, but I did it anyway (my bad). Missing Attentive Display (a main reason I bought the new model). Moto Voice can't be heard on BT, and numerous nagging little issues.
I assume they will get it right on the 2014 model on lollipop, most likely several months before the next new model ships, if the original Moto X timeline is any indicator.
IMHO, less attention to detail is the part of the price of admission to Android, but it has yet to become so inconvenient as to consider going back to iOS.

jdubya42 said:
I first wanted to see if anyone else was annoyed with this phone as I am. If that was the case, then I wanted to have a mass complaint to Motorola because I honestly feel cheated by this phone. Since upgrading to 5.0 I really feel like this phone has just been incomplete. The software has been so buggy that I have found myself hating my phone, something I have never experience with an Android phone ever. I would have liked to have sold this phone and gone with something else, but I happened to drop it soon after getting it and I fell like nobody would buy it with the cosmetic damage done to it. My complaints honestly deal with just 5.0 in general and the memory leak issue, but I feel like Motorola should have done something about it much sooner. Considering the 5.0 update has been out for quite a few months now and my phone is the slowest and laggiest phone I have used since the OG Droid.
Does anybody else feel this strongly about this? I have the XT1096 by the way (Verizon model). I paid like 600$ for an incomplete phone. The hardware is great, albeit a small battery, but the software has been so terrible to me.
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I'm annoyed with the phone, but for very different reasons than you are. I've got a short list:
The feel is very slippery, and like you, I've dropped my phone several times as a result. I also now have chipped glass at the corner. Yes, I could put a case on it. But... why customize, then cover it? Why buy a thin phone, then have it be thicker? I've come to find out now that the original black back is nice and grippy, but the colored backs are slippery as a... yeah, those are the words.
One flagship to rule them all. I'd love to see a smaller version of this phone. I know the Moto G exists, I know the Moto E exists. Obviously neither of those fit the bill based on the lack of an AMOLED screen.
Repeat Notifications on Moto Display. Repeat Notifications on Moto Display. Repeat....
Unlocking from Moto Display gives the lock screen. Bogus.
It's not a long list, and it is one that Moto could take care of fairly easily with some good customer service (exchanging slippery backs for grippy ones, even if you are past your return date), and a few software fixes. I don't know that the one flagship issue is fixable, or at least not easily. I don't *really* expect Moto to put all the latest and greatest features into a non-flagship style phone, I just wish they would.
I haven't really seen a memory leak problem, but I haven't done a whole lot of research. I'm a 17 year veteran of the IT trenches, and while rebooting isn't a 'fix' -- it damn well gets rid of a lot of problems. When my phone gets slow, I reboot. Takes about 30 seconds. ;; shrug ;; Maybe that doesn't help with the memory issue, but as I haven't run into it, maybe it does. Should it be necessary? No. Definitely not. Is it something I can live with? Definitely.
Regarding the software problems, however I will say (and I'm guessing it won't get me lots of compliments) that the 'WHERE IS MY UPGRADE' faction does have something to do with why we often see buggy software. The phone was pretty great on KitKat, and while I do love some of the features of Lollipop, I am not sure that getting the upgrade in such a hurry was worth the bugs listed above.
I don't want to see manufacturers using "bugs" as an excuse for delaying software upgrades excessively (like coming out with the KitKat upgrade now, after Lollipop is released, yuck) but I would like to see upgrades held until problems can be fixed, while being 100% open and honest about what is delaying things. I'd love to see specific dialogs, such as "We've noticed a huge memory leak issue in Lollipop with our custom software, so we're going to sort that out first before releasing the upgrade."
For those whom an upgrade is important, I would love to see a larger scale, opt-in, beta testing opportunity where someone could actually visit a webpage or app, sign off on the fact that they know that they could lose connectivity, battery life, features, convenience, etc --- and then has access to download the latest and greatest update. Users who want the upgrades then, could have them... but without the 'right' to complain overly much if problems did arise.
Just my thoughts. Let the dispute of the validity thereof now begin.

jdubya42 said:
There is other threads dedicated to the memory leak issue, you guys aren't experiencing it?
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I do: Nova Launcher keeps restarting after one or two days of phone uptime. Happens with Tasker too (but not so often than launcher to be honest).
It's easy to detect since going back to home screen leads to full screen redraw.
By using a task manager (like 3C Toolbox) one can check the "Time since start" of Nova process when the last restart happened (when set up as default, a launcher it should never restart).
Rebooting the phone solve the problem for a moment then it gets back again

jdubya42 said:
Does anybody else feel this strongly about this? I have the XT1096 by the way (Verizon model). I paid like 600$ for an incomplete phone. The hardware is great, albeit a small battery, but the software has been so terrible to me.
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Click to collapse
Have you checked out the MoFo thread? We have root now, it is great.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/moto-x-2014/general/mofo-xt1096-running-4-4-4-t3088438
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theideaweb said:
The feel is very slippery, and like you, I've dropped my phone several times as a result. I also now have chipped glass at the corner. Yes, I could put a case on it. But... why customize, then cover it? Why buy a thin phone, then have it be thicker?
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Have you checked out the slickwraps, dbrand and bestskinsever skins? I have a carbon fiber one on my Nexus 6 and it is grippy.
theideaweb said:
I've come to find out now that the original black back is nice and grippy, but the colored backs are slippery as a... yeah, those are the words.
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Yeah the black is soft touch. The leather ones are fantastic and not slippery at all! I love the feel of my black leather and it was only $25 more - well worth it.

JulesJam said:
Have you checked out the slickwraps, dbrand and bestskinsever skins? I have a carbon fiber one on my Nexus 6 and it is grippy.
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Yeah, I had the carbon fiber one on my original 2nd gen Moto X; still slipped out of my hand often enough to chip the glass. It's funny, because the instant I described the slippery problem, Motorola offered a no-charge replacement (but only of the same exact design)
JulesJam said:
Yeah the black is soft touch. The leather ones are fantastic and not slippery at all! I love the feel of my black leather and it was only $25 more - well worth it.
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Which Moto finally, after about 5+ hours of phone calls, numerous long chats, and various e-mail exchanges... stated clearly to me as well. Prior to that, they were swearing up and down that the soft touch was ONLY available from AT&T and Verizon, as well as regional carriers.
I tried the blue leather since they were stating that the black was plastic resin (rather than the soft touch). It was actually really smooth as well, at least to me.
After 6 total exchanges, I've got a black soft-touch back Moto X on the way from the factory. We'll see if that does the trick. If not, I'll end up downgrading to the Moto G.. or now that I've discovered the Agent app.. perhaps the Galaxy S4 Google Play edition with the Agent app and Peek/ACDisplay/Ambient Display.

theideaweb said:
If not, I'll end up downgrading to the Moto G.. or now that I've discovered the Agent app.. perhaps the Galaxy S4 Google Play edition with the Agent app and Peek/ACDisplay/Ambient Display.
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Samsung's radios/antennas on the S4 are absolutely horrible. They are as bad as the GNex and Note3.

theideaweb said:
Yeah, I had the carbon fiber one on my original 2nd gen Moto X; still slipped out of my hand often enough to chip the glass. It's funny, because the instant I described the slippery problem, Motorola offered a no-charge replacement (but only of the same exact design)
Which Moto finally, after about 5+ hours of phone calls, numerous long chats, and various e-mail exchanges... stated clearly to me as well. Prior to that, they were swearing up and down that the soft touch was ONLY available from AT&T and Verizon, as well as regional carriers.
I tried the blue leather since they were stating that the black was plastic resin (rather than the soft touch). It was actually really smooth as well, at least to me.
After 6 total exchanges, I've got a black soft-touch back Moto X on the way from the factory. We'll see if that does the trick. If not, I'll end up downgrading to the Moto G.. or now that I've discovered the Agent app.. perhaps the Galaxy S4 Google Play edition with the Agent app and Peek/ACDisplay/Ambient Display.
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I know this is about the backs and their feel but i have found that whule the navy blue is smooth and hard just like most of the rest with a hula case (aka bumper around it) slippage is minimized

While I don't think I'm quite as upset over the phone as you are I do agree that I am disappointed with 5.0 and can't believe it has taken this long for a bugfix. When my Moto X 2013 started to die I wanted another one but Moto couldn't replace it (32 meg units just weren't available) so they "upgraded" me to a 2014. Now keep in mind I loved the 2013, best phone I had ever had. Completely stock and no complaints. Then along comes the 2014 and 5.0. Not major issues just a bunch of minor issues that keep me from loving this phone. I guess I'd be happy to sign on to a complaint petition but then I'd be wondering if I should be yelling at Moto or Verizon?

Anyone with the US version having issues?

Just posting to see if any of our QUALCOMM variants are experiencing what the International versions are. Mine is working amazingly well no sign of an issue yet. Anyone else facing anything like what's going on with the exynos? I'm optimistic yet cautious about ours.

galaxy4mylife said:
Just posting to see if any of our QUALCOMM variants are experiencing what the International versions are. Mine is working amazingly well no sign of an issue yet. Anyone else facing anything like what's going on with the exynos? I'm optimistic yet cautious about ours.
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In regard to what? Spontaneously turning into a fire ball?
Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk

galaxy4mylife said:
Just posting to see if any of our QUALCOMM variants are experiencing what the International versions are. Mine is working amazingly well no sign of an issue yet. Anyone else facing anything like what's going on with the exynos? I'm optimistic yet cautious about ours.
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Yes your thread is vague and honestly simply go through the forum and see the threads of people complaining. Not sure why you would create a new thread for this or make it more specific. IJS

First off no need to be rude. Second I'm not sure why you care so much about a question I asked must be keeping you up at night so I apologize for that...... I was talking about the using the phone for a few days and it becoming a brick like several international versions are experiencing. But thanks for showing me how rude everyone can be at 8:50am...

Probably quiet few people on t-mo forum don't frequent international forum, myself included, so may not be aware of specific issues there, so lets all come down and have intelligent conversation, since IMO OP question is legit as long as it is properly explained. Sooo, as far as I know there were few complains about lagging, poor battery life and couple QC issues , which BTW none of them I experienced. Personally I have not seen any brick post on this forum, which is strange since we already have root and there is plenty of people who can't follow simple directions, sometimes myself included. Anyway I wouldn't worry too much, phone is on warranty and there will always be some quality control issues. Are you sure those are not user related, like trying to root without a clue, or taking underwater photography on your scuba dive? People don't always tell whole story. If you don't have N7 yet, wait until dust clears, if you do, just enjoy it, life's too short.

galaxy4mylife said:
First off no need to be rude. Second I'm not sure why you care so much about a question I asked must be keeping you up at night so I apologize for that...... I was talking about the using the phone for a few days and it becoming a brick like several international versions are experiencing. But thanks for showing me how rude everyone can be at 8:50am...
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It's not a matter of rude, mate. There's multiple things that your cryptic "same prob as intl versions" could be...a little more clarity is all that was needed...
Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 09:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:14 AM ----------
But to answer, that's a Exynos issue thus far, and nitric had been reported for Qualcomm models
Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk

Exactly, no rudeness seen in this thread its just if you're going to ask a question at least have it make sense. With further explanation from other parties it seems we now may have a better understanding of what OP originally meant to say. :good:

It appears that the problem starts after the first OTA update samsung released from what I have read. I hope if Tmobile releases it, it will be a later build if infact the software is too blame. I'm usually first to update but I may play it safe and wait a day or so when it's released to us. And in regards to the user error in regards to the problem. The phone apparently will start to freeze and reboot and then get stuck in reboot cycles and when you attempt a factory reset in the OS or recovery the phone becomes unusable. Samsung isn't sure of its hardware or software yet. That's why I'm optimistic but cautious about ours.

Good to know, if that's the case we could postpone updates and see if any problems are reported. It wouldn't be first time updates create more problems than fixes. Few yrs ago I updated my Asus computer BIOS, despite reading other people having problem (I assumed user errors). It took me 1 week and $20 hardware just to boot up, never mind countless hours of Google search, the BIOS was completely hosed on certain hardware, which I happened to have. Never bricked the phone with updates yet, but more often than not, stuff stops working the way it should, so waiting few days may be best option. Love the phone, would hate to loose it even for few days.

Well samsung had stopped shipping the note 7 due to them needing more "quality control testing" havent said why yet or what markets they are delayed in.

The article I read said Samsung stops shipping in Korea, no official reason given, except better QC, so everything else could be speculation which for now seems to point to battery as culprit. My phone gets pretty hot, when on fast charge, so I disabled it for now. But I'm thinking if the connection is not perfect, it could cause problems. I think the phone is charging at something over 10 Watts, my soldering iron is 30W.

i've been very happy with my note 7 so far. i luckily havent come across any of the issues some other ppl in this forum have. i did read about the international note 7 bricking randomly and not being able to factory restore it. but there havent been any reports of the qualcomm version doing that. so the exynos is faster and less lag but there's a chance of a random brick and the qualcomm doesnt brick but many complaints about ui lag. seems samsung hasnt been able to get either right so far. it's definitely a QC issue because it's random units these things are happening to. every manufacturing process has some QC issues come up but they want to keep that below a certain percentage. this seems to be above that percentage.

freebee269 said:
i've been very happy with my note 7 so far. i luckily havent come across any of the issues some other ppl in this forum have. i did read about the international note 7 bricking randomly and not being able to factory restore it. but there havent been any reports of the qualcomm version doing that. so the exynos is faster and less lag but there's a chance of a random brick and the qualcomm doesnt brick but many complaints about ui lag. seems samsung hasnt been able to get either right so far. it's definitely a QC issue because it's random units these things are happening to. every manufacturing process has some QC issues come up but they want to keep that below a certain percentage. this seems to be above that percentage.
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Well i have 7 days to exchange in store before I need one shipped so I'm hopeful it will last haha. On the topic of lag I don't notice alot in fact I think it does alot of things faster then my s7 edge for example when I start up I can enter my pin right away my s7 edge didn't even register a keypress for quite a few seconds after it popped up. This I can get into the phone in no time.

I'm experiencing the below with my TMO | Onyx black | Made in China (apparently there are 3 countries making them, china, korea, vietnam)
Running hot for no reason
Poor battery life
UI lag
Poor touch screen sensitivity - 1 in 5 key presses when typing is lost and other various touch recognition drop outs

If it's running hot, very possible some software crashed and its looping. First thing I would do is restart, then check battery screen to see what using it the most, maybe download something like 3C toolbox for better picture. Just make sure you're not in some particular spot where reception is spotty and it constantly goes in and out of network or keep switching towers.

Well though it doesn't sound like ours will be part of it I just read that Samsung will be recalling the note 7 in several markets due to a faulty battery used during manufacturing. Though more information will be provided in the next few days from Samsung. http://www.sammobile.com/2016/09/01/galaxy-note-7-recall-will-reportedly-be-announced-soon/

If the battery was the issue, it would be so much simpler on the older, non sealed models like S5, which was water proof and had easy battery access. All would they had to do is mail new batt. to customers. Maybe some good comes out of this, like easy to open back in the future.

The only issue i have had is with users stating there are issues. Out of all the Samsung phones i have had 10 plus this is by far the best.

Now appears that the recall will be global. And samsung is in talks with the carriers on how to go about returning and exchanging phones already sold. Never had to deal with a phone recall before.

nonmindo said:
I'm experiencing the below with my TMO | Onyx black | Made in China (apparently there are 3 countries making them, china, korea, vietnam)
Running hot for no reason
Poor battery life
UI lag
Poor touch screen sensitivity - 1 in 5 key presses when typing is lost and other various touch recognition drop outs
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Click to collapse
I have had all of those issues on top of no signal for long periods and I just got the phone yesterday. I have had every Note except the 4 with none of these issues. Pretty disappointed.

Want to buy the 3T, have some questions before I do.

Hey guys, i am thinking about buying the OnePlus 3T from amazon.in and have some questions that i'm hoping i can get answered (I asked these in OnePlus 3T India thread but didn't get any reply as making new thread).
1) Most important question - Are the accidental damage protection offers any good ? The ones on the Amazon site r from third parties and neither one has gr8 reviews, but this one seems to be the better one - http://www.amazon.in/dp/B01N4DH82G/ref=psd_bb_lm_B01FM8M0XE_B01N4DH82G . Still i dont know if its any good or not. What do they cover and do they try to scam their customers when they actually have to provide service/replacement ?
2) What is the situation with the phone sale on Amazon.in, this morning it showed Gunmetal was out of stock, then later it was showing its in stock (It went out of stock again later), i thought they were only selling the phone through flash sales. I'm worried they might send the wrong colour or something.
2)I'm thinking of buying the 64gb version, how much usable space does it have?
3)R both the Sim slots 4g ? Many phones only come with one 4g sim slot, other only being 3g compatible.
4)Generally every new phone released has some or the other small or big hardware flaws, and these get fixed silently in newer batches that r produced, Does the 3T have any i should know about ?
5) Whats the situation with Nougat update? I read that it got an OTA update but it has a lot of problems, what r these problems ?
6)Whats the situation with unlocking bootloader, rooting and and installing custom ROMs, i read that its kind of a complicated situation and a mess, didnt read in detail ? I've rooted every single phone/tablet i've owned in the past half decade, was thinking to use the stock software that comes with the OnePlus 3T as its supposed to be really clean and vanilla and comes with most customizations u get in a custom ROM anyway. But still I wanna know I can do that without much problem if I wanted to.
Sent from my HM 1SW using Tapatalk

2) 51-52GB
3) Both are LTE-A compatible
4) Unstable CPU at full clocks, touchscreen latency
5) No issues if you do a full wipe
6) It is fine, not as easy as on Nexus phones because OP is not releasing factory images but it is fine.

Not a hardware issue per se, but the images taken are very noisy when compared to the oneplus 3... Check some camera samples in gsm arena before you buy.

Ya. Definitely camera blows, and I'm coming from a 7+ and take a lot of photos. With that said I've learned to take better photos, not just point and shoot. Although it's a pain in the rear, I think the battery life and software updates we get are worth it, at least for now. I'm hoping they can fix the camera with software, we will see...

J4DedPrez said:
Ya. Definitely camera blows, and I'm coming from a 7+ and take a lot of photos. With that said I've learned to take better photos, not just point and shoot. Although it's a pain in the rear, I think the battery life and software updates we get are worth it, at least for now. I'm hoping they can fix the camera with software, we will see...
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Huh... Weird, cause literally every review I have read of the phone says that the phone has a gr8 camera for the price, not as sophisticated as Pixel, S7 and iPhone 7 but still pretty darn good. In any case, I don't use camera much, I think it'll be fine.
Also, I ordered it already last night, I just got a dispatch mail 2 mins ago!
Sent from my HM 1SW using Tapatalk

bhu1 said:
Huh... Weird, cause literally every review I have read of the phone says that the phone has a gr8 camera for the price, not as sophisticated as Pixel, S7 and iPhone 7 but still pretty darn good. In any case, I don't use camera much, I think it'll be fine.
Also, I ordered it already last night, I just got a dispatch mail 2 mins ago!
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You might be surprised, it's extremely noisy in anything but great lighting conditions and the aperture is super slow. Any movement in a photo causes blur. And I've tried all 3rd party cameras apps with manual settings. Not sure if it's a software or hardware issue

Nexus 6 to G5S plus, thoughts?

Hi all, ready to move on from my Nexus 6. Would love some pro's/con's from this community on how happy I'd be to make this switch. I've ready G5S plus give great bang for buck and has a good modding community which is a must have for me.
Any thoughts on making the G5S + my primary phone??

All I can say is I love mine and I came from a Nexus 4.

You calling it "moving on" rather than an upgrade is pretty accurate. It's an upgrade overall, but not as much as you might think for a 3-year newer model. You need to realize that the Nexus 6 was a $700 phone (when first released) and the G5S Plus is a $300 phone. The improvements with the G5S Plus is that it's 64-bit hardware, even though the stock ROM is 32-bit and most people highly suspect the Oreo update (if it ever comes) will also be 32-bit. Because it's not a Nexus, the G5S Plus has a microSD slot so you have the potential to have a lot more storage, but the camera hardware is not great (despite the fancy dual lens). The camera works out if flash a 3rd-party 64-bit ROM and use the Google Camera, but I can't do that (see below). On the US model there is no NFC, so no AndroidPay (I didn't care, but some might).
My personal experience with unlocking/rooting/ROMing the two phones has been very different when I thought it would be far more similar (since they're both Motorola). The best way to describe the process with the G5S Plus is kludgy, and it's not all that easy to go back to stock since there are no official, signed stock images for the G5S Plus. Stock updates (even security updates) are few and far between. This just isn't a Nexus. The Nexus 6 had a lot more 3rd-party development options and support, and the G5S Plus has now been out long enough that what you see here now is probably all we're going to get. I haven't had much luck with the existing 3rd-party ROMs working well with my carrier (Sprint). The ROM features seem to mostly work fine, but the carrier settings don't work at all on Sprint, and when I try to change them I completely lose my mobile signal and don't get it back until I reset network settings. This makes it highly questionable how successful I'll be with these 3rd-party ROMs when roaming, even just locally in the USA. I have no faith in these ROMs working when roaming internationally. The reason why I'm encountering the same problem with all of these 3rd-party ROMs is I'm pretty sure all of them are using the same base from the same developer. So if you're like me and have a problem with any of these ROMs, you'll likely have the same problem with all of them.
Overall? I wish I'd gotten the Pixel 2 XL. But although I can afford to pay $1000 for a phone, I'm not going to because that's just ridiculous. I've looked around...thoroughly. There just isn't really anything out there any better featured that doesn't at least cost $700, so I'm still using the G5S Plus. I may be a little more limited than you because I'm Sprint (CDMA) whereas people on GSM networks might have more options. I've had to go back to stock rooted 7.1.1, which isn't horrible but not really ideal (and not what I'm used to with the Nexus 6). But I can't successfully get the G5S Plus back to stock unrooted to even take security updates, so I'm on the October security patch. When the stock Oreo update is released, I don't see me being able to take that either. I'm hoping that development community here will put out a flashable stock Oreo ROM then, but then I'll still be in the same boat with OTA Oreo security patches. This is a very capable phone with some nice features, but if you liked being a flashaholic on the Nexus 6, I wouldn't necessarily expect the same experience on the G5S Plus.
FYI, I'm not a developer, but far from being a noob. I've been rooting/ROMing/modifying Android devices (HTC, Samsung, Motorola) since the Froyo days. I would have to rank this phone as the most difficult Android device I've owned to do all that.

I can tell a slightly more upbeat story.
Migrated from a Nexus 6P which I loved dearly, but after spending a small fortune on battery replacements realised it was time to call it a day.
I am very pleased with the Moto. Honestly? I see very little functional difference between this and the 6P in my use case. The screen is slightly smaller. From a Nexus 6 it would be more noticeable I suspect. I recovered the real estate by turning off the nav bar and using fingerprint swipe gestures (which are nice once you get used to them). It is fast and fluid in use and I genuinely don't see anything different in use from the 6P from the end user's perspective. I use my phone mainly for work and the intertubes so not fussed about the camera. When I point it at things what ends up on the phone looks vaguely like what I pointed the phone at. That fulfils my criteria although I have recently started tinkering with some of the hacked GCam apps from the Pixel just for the "because I can" factor.
Internetpilot is right, the development scene is a fraction of what you'd see on a Nexus or Pixel. However, as a long standing flashaholic from the very early days of Android (HTC Magic anyone?) I found myself more than happy with rooted stock for a long time. Moto's stock rom is bloat free and works extremely well. I did try a couple of custom roms early on and found them not as smooth or stable as the stock one, so reverted and ran stock for about six months until very recently.
Internetpilot is right in that it is very difficult to get the thing back to a stock state once you start tinkering. I was in a similar boat whidh meant I couldn't accept OTAs. This was what finally prompted me to try the custom ROM scene again. It has improved in leaps and bounds since last year. Currently running Pixel Experience Oreo and it is rock solid. It's been a keeper for me. But it is worth bearing in mind that if you root then you will be on your own and probably end up forced down the custom ROM boat as I have. It would be a lot easier if Moto had flashable stock images, but it's not a show stopper if your plan was basically to go custom from the get go.
I can't agree with Internetpilot hat it's any major difficulty to unlock, root and flash. You go to Moto's website, you get an unlock code, you unlock your bootloader, you flash TWRP and away you go. Not significantly different from the process I've done on most phones I've had since the HTC Magic days. I've had Sonys that were more grief than this.
I can't speak for any of this CDMA stuff as I am not transatlantically challenged . I've had no problems with my own network provider (Vodafone UK) or roaming on any rom. But if you're stateside clearly that's something you'd need to consider. It's worth also noting that most of the community are in developing countries eg India where this phone has quite a bit of a foothold.
But generally this is a lot of phone for the money. It's a good time for the low-mid range Android phone market. I chose this phone because I didn't want to pay stupid money for a top end device and I really didn't like the 18:9 form factor. The Moto is generally the same form factor as my beloved 6P and the price is right. Now if you have a bit more to spend, the Oneplus 5T looks interesting and perhaps might have a more Nexus-like community. Other options in the Moto's price range include the Honor 7X which I might well have bought instead if it'd been available when I bought the Moto. I am also intrigued by some of the Xiaomi devices. But the tl;dr version? The Moto is highly commended. Would buy again.

Wow, thank you both for your elaborate remarks, really helpful and exactly what I was looking for. So yes I've been rotting for awhile as well (since HTC Eris) and have had some pleasant and less than pleasant experiences. Some earlier Moto droids were obv torture to get unlocked, while the Nexus 6 was certainly quite the opposite.
I'm disappointed to hear dev is so sparse, as the usual spots (Android Police, Auth, 9to5Google, etc) all said this was the best phone to look at for modding after Pixel 2 & OnePlus given it's ease of unlock and robust community. Honestly I find such great value in the ability to unlock, root etc that I do plan on doing so right away and it heavily influences my purchase decision. I suppose if I wanted just one locked in phone experience I would just go to an IPhone, but I want to be able to customize.
From a hardware perspective, I appreciate both viewpoints. Yes don't like the thought of losing screen real estate but not sure what the alternative is as other options I've looked at are 18:9. Played with the 2 XL today and was shocked at the lack of screen space in landscape. Web browsing already is limited given ads in landscape and it seems even worse in the 18:9 ratio. As to software, Internetpilot certainly makes me wary as I'm on VZW, another CDMA. Personally I've generally had a good experience with my network relative to friends of mine on Sprint, but persisting network issues concern me as I also want a smooth experience when on a different rom.
As to the financial point, agreed on both sides. Certainly bang for the buck kind of phone. There are better out there but I too can't stomach the thought of dropping a grand on these, just seems a bridge too far given where the prices were just a few years ago. But at the same time I really don't want to have a phone that is nothing but hassle and constant re-flashes. I'd like to find a rom that is stable, supported and simply support it and continue on.
Well, I thank you both for the time and opinions, really helpful to be sure. Internetpilot I'll certainly dig for other posts with similar concerns but if you care to share some you've come across I'll def have a look.
Thanks again to the both of you.

To clarify a bit -- the phone is no more difficult to unlock, root, and ROM than the Nexus 6. However, the reason I gave it my "most difficult" award (haha) out of all the phones I've owned, is that gaining root on a device that isn't very well supported in the 3rd-party development arena doesn't really do you much good if you can't unroot just as easily. I can't get SuperSU working on this device, so I had to resort to Magisk (which is new to me -- I've always used SuperSU) and when I perform the unroot option via the Magisk Manager app, I end up with a "bad key" error on the bootloader screen and the ROM won't boot. The same thing happens if you try to restore all the original stock partitions via TWRP. Restoring any one of the boot, recovery, and one other partition that I can't remember results in the same "bad key" error. It's gotten to the point that even though I want to get it back to stock unrooted so I can grab the latest OTA security update (and eventually get the stock Oreo update when it's released), I really hate to mess with it. It's not because I think I'm going to brick it -- it's just I know I'll end up spending hours without a phone while trying to get passed that stupid "bad key" error, and then when I finally do that, my data partition will re-encrypt so I'll lose everything and have to set the phone up all over again. Since I'm trying to get it back to stock unrooted, I can't just easily restore my apps/data with Titanium Backup (because I don't have root), so everything is either gone or all messed up, so it's a huge pain in the posterior. Both versions of TWRP we have available for this phone don't reliably backup/restore the data partition either, so you can't rely on TWRP to backup everything if you want to mess around with flashing other ROMs, etc. That's what I mean by most difficult out of all the devices I've owned. When a new ROM is released, you really have to think twice before just backing everything up and flashing it to try it. You just might end up without a working phone for 3 or 4 hours before you get everything restored back to a working state.
I don't think you'll have a problem with Verizon. I know several people who are running 3rd-party Oreo ROMs on this phone on Verizon and they don't have the same issues I do with the carrier settings blowing everything up. It just seems to be Sprint. And to clarify my problems on Sprint, the stock rooted (and unrooted) ROM works flawlessly on Sprint. I can change the carrier settings, update my PRL, even use the "secret" dial codes to change APN settings, etc. But I can't do any of that on any of these 3rd-party Oreo ROMs. The carrier settings default to Global (which strangely works on Sprint's CDMA network), but I can't change Preferred Network Type to "LTE", can't turn on data roaming, can't change the CDMA roaming mode, and can't update the PRL or device config. Like Loccy said, all of the development on this phone is from India where the phone is very popular, so they probably don't know anything about Sprint. But even with these ROMs working fine on Verizon, how long will they be updated/supported? The Moto G6/G6 Plus is likely going to be released during the Summer, and that will probably fizzle the minimal development that the G5S/G5S Plus currently has. I think Moto is going to likely support this phone longer than the 3rd-party development community will.

Yeah, those are all great points. I agree with the heart of your contention in that I absolutely love tinkering with my phone, trying new ROMs, seeing what sort of added and better features I can apply to my device, making it mine instead of having some company tell me what to do with my device. But conversely I absolutely dread those lost days when something doesn't go right and you spend days and weeks scouring the forums and doing research just to get your phone to what you deem to be an operable state. Certainly that can be part of the fun of owning a device like this but with multiple kids, job, and other life stuff getting in the way and not being an engineer by trade or anything technology related it does become a bit of a hindrance at times. I suppose I just want my cake and to eat it too, but that's not the landscape that Android lives in right now.
I also take your point that this is a mid range device that has Hardware limitations and a development community that will only support it for so long. I'd like to make a choice that has a little more longevity built into it like the 4+ years I got out of my Nexus 6.
I think I may actually go for a verizon pixel to xl give it all these conversations, can get one on payment for less than 500 out the door. While I absolutely recognize that I will probably greatly miss having total control over my device, I really like the Android software landscape and it still offers a much richer customization experience than does an iPhone.
Look, really appreciate all your feedback and thoughts. Will let you know some months down the road if the decision was a good one. Cheers.

Do I want this update or should I keep it blocked?

Do I want this update or should I keep it blocked and permanently block future updates? In my past experiences they make my phones slower and eventually unusable. Thanks

I haven't updated in about 6 months, battery life is still amazing. I really can't see these updates helping anything.. I don't need a new version of android and I'm pretty happy with the camera. Would be interesting to see how much it affects performance and battery "new update"
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

I update regularly, on the whole i find it is for better.

I'm on threw newest firmware and I have no issues since I've been updating past the first Pie release.

Jammol said:
I'm on threw newest firmware and I have no issues since I've been updating past the first Pie release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I mainly upgrade because I can get the latest security patches. Besides I also have a pixel 3A that gets better update frequency than my note 9. plus I like having an unlockable bootloader to reverse updates if they get screwed up.
Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

I haven't updated, since the December 1, 2018 security patch for Oreo 8.1.
Battery is outstanding, especially over my S9 with Pie.
I think phones work best on their original operating system.
Security patches? Meh. They probably cover old threats anyways.

pizza_pablo said:
I haven't updated, since the December 1, 2018 security patch for Oreo 8.1.
Battery is outstanding, especially over my S9 with Pie.
I think phones work best on their original operating system.
Security patches? Meh. They probably cover old threats anyways.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fam, there's been 5 major threats found this year alone. And they were exploited on a small scale this year.
There's no such thing as original operating system by the way. Not even slightly when it comes to Android. If you want a "original" Feeling, probably Pixel devices would be the best bet. It better yet, if it must be Note 9, strip all none essential items from a rom with hopes that there's no hyperlinking.
This part is not to ragg on older software, but when updates are made in good faith, it is to improve on previous versions of said software.??
Most of the time... Placebo ??

Jammol said:
Fam, there's been 5 major threats found this year alone. And they were exploited on a small scale this year.
There's no such thing as original operating system by the way. Not even slightly when it comes to Android. If you want a "original" Feeling, probably Pixel devices would be the best bet. It better yet, if it must be Note 9, strip all none essential items from a rom with hopes that there's no hyperlinking.
This part is not to ragg on older software, but when updates are made in good faith, it is to improve on previous versions of said software.??
Most of the time ... Placebo ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By "original OS", I meant the version that originally came on the phone, when it was released / purchased.
Apologies, for not being more clear.

pizza_pablo said:
By "original OS", I meant the version that originally came on the phone, when it was released / purchased.
Apologies, for not being more clear.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know what you meant, and it's a great thought to have as a consumer, but unfortunately it's just a placebo. To be fair, I'm pretty sure it has happened where the software a device shipped with was the best for it to be on for a long time. For me that was probably the Nexus 6P. But that phone was doomed from the get go.
I don't know. I'm glad you guys are happy with the software you're on, but I urge all of you to just update to get rid of those nasty vulnerabilities that your OS versions have. I don't think it's worth the trade off.
Performance isn't bad at all on Pie, but that's where phone use is relative for each person. Butchieboy get crazy SOT, I barely crack 4 hours on a lite day of use. Most likely due to my crappy coverage area and what I'm actually using my phone for throughout the day.

Jammol said:
I know what you meant...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh OK, it didn't seem like it.
You were going off.
I appreciation your passion and warnings!
I think I understand the risks of what I'm doing.
I do have an S9 on Pie that I'm checking out and hope to get it on the Android 10 Beta to test drive. 10 seems to be more to my liking with a true dark mode.
If so, I may just let our Note 9s update to Android 10 Quindim

There has been a history of companies, namely apple, of slowing down devices as they age in an effort to 'save battery' or some junk. I think its to force you to upgrade your phone. The battery is the easiest way for them to age phones out to make sure we keep buying new ones. This can be pushed faster through software updates, beside the natural degradation of the battery over time.

Jammol said:
I know what you meant, and it's a great thought to have as a consumer, but unfortunately it's just a placebo. To be fair, I'm pretty sure it has happened where the software a device shipped with was the best for it to be on for a long time. For me that was probably the Nexus 6P. But that phone was doomed from the get go.
I don't know. I'm glad you guys are happy with the software you're on, but I urge all of you to just update to get rid of those nasty vulnerabilities that your OS versions have. I don't think it's worth the trade off.
Performance isn't bad at all on Pie, but that's where phone use is relative for each person. Butchieboy get crazy SOT, I barely crack 4 hours on a lite day of use. Most likely due to my crappy coverage area and what I'm actually using my phone for throughout the day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm geteing 7 to 8 hours of SOT on my Note 9 on Oreo. I'm used to using a phone with an outdated security patch. I bought an S5 back in 2016 which came with Mashmallow and who's last update was all the way back to January 2018. The security patch is still 8/1/17. IWas forced to ditch it when 2 attempts by Sasmung to cure the screen flickering didn't help. Heck I install APK's on it and no viruses.

If you are using any online banking apps then I would advise that you install any updates onto your device for safety. As they will plug up any security flaws in the OS.

In my opinion it is extremely important to keep your devices up to date with the latest security patches. Now days most of our digital lives are stored on our phones. You wouldn't leave your front door wide open. Don't do the same with your phone.

I always keep my phone up to date so that all the security issues can be fixed and sometimes I get updates for the camera too.