Database Develop

This phone is not a graphics device, its a business tool.

OK, rather than hijack a thread, this is what I posted last night in the class action thread:
Steve-C said:
What he said...but I am a little under the influence right now. To be honest, my phone works for GPS, works for email, works for web browsing, sync's via activesync, plays movies just fine (no slider issues when adjusting sound), allows me to read ebooks, works with office mobile (though I would like to be able to save Word documents as .DOC files, not .DOCX). Guess I'm with the 99% because I really don't see any issues with the phone that cause me to get on a soapbox. I really don't care if this makes me unpopular, but I'm so sick of people coming on this forum and moaning about video driver issues. Show me one other device that does all the things that a Kaiser can do? iPhone, no GPS and limited open source unless you want to run the risk of bricking the device, Nokia? Please, I had the 9xxx series of communicators for years. I had the choice between the latest comunicator series or the Kaiser, I went with the Kaiser as Symbian sucked. The N95, QWERTY keyboard???
This phone is not designed as a graphics device, its a business tool. If you want DVD quality movies, buy a portable DVD player, graphic intensive games, get a PSP. I have a Nokia 2110 mobile from 10 years ago that can't handle MID files, a Garmin Sat-Nav the size of a house brick and a digital camera that uses 3.5" floppy discs cause memory cards hadn't been invented when it was launched. HTC have packed an MP3 player, sat-nav, laptop computer, digital camera, mobile phone (...the list goes on) inside a device the size of a packet of cigarettes. Personally I think this is amazing, lets give them a bit of credit for doing this!
[/drunk rant off...]
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These were the responses:
forcedalias said:
So, are you saying that just because it's business-oriented, its camera should continue to suffer from video driver issues? That it should be slower to process anything with some graphics in it, business-related, entertainment or otherwise?
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omikr0n said:
GPS, email, office - fine.
Web browsing - not at all - see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qbaDLzOU_Y
Syncing - fine, except mine disconnects randomly when connected via bluetooth
Movies - I haven't seen a single movie playing fluently on TyTN II
Is this really acceptable for you? Especially for such expensive device? I paid nearly $1000 for device that my 5 (!) year old iPaq h2210 can easily outperform at ANYTHING?
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I've never understood the driver issues, as I haven't witnessed them. Looking at the YouTube video posted, that is very worrying, but I would like to know how were such poor results achieved?
This is my Kaiser (running the stock o2 ROM). Firstly it shows a video being played on my laptop, second the same section of the same video on my Kaiser. Then a web page in PIE, followed by a bit of surfing on Opera. From my video, it seems to perform just fine. So am I just really lucky, or am I missing something?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrHwG6xpc-E

Nope I get the same results.

Well, i dont have big issues with movies.
However, i notice a lot of "lag" effects sometimes when scrolling. Of course installed the scrolling fix for IE, which makes it far better, but still, there is interface lag.
This lag is easily noticeable when you try to close an app and need to point your stylus like 3 or 4 times on the top right X before anything appears.
Also noticeable when you scroll in the "programs" window , interface lag, the scrolling is bad, really... The icons in the programs windows look like they disappear (this part of the screen becomes totally blank/white) then half-reappear then disappear etc... It is UGLY. When scrolling in program window, what should be SEEN would be real scrolling icons, fluid and all ! It should be nice, fluid, and shouldnt look like the screen refresh is 1 frame / second.
With such a processor and the included ATI thingy i would have thought of a faster interface avoiding such lag tbh.

The Stargate video that you're showing on your tilt in your video, did you conver that first?
If not, I'd like to know the stats on the video. Whats the resolution, file size, etc.
I've copied music videos to my phone and they play like crap. I had to spend $30 on conversion software and wait for the media to be converted down before I was able to watch anything.
Stargate Atlantis episodes that are 350mb take a long time to convert. To me it's a waste of time. I'd rather have a fully functional device with proper video support. Software rendering makes the screen draw slow and makes the device lag.
So, have you copied any video files at all to your phone and had them not play correctly? Or are you saying that every video you've tried has worked fine?
That has NOT been my experience. I have to convert everything to 320x240 at 640 bitrate before my phone will play video smoothly.

There is no need to argue, the phone is capable of doing more, why not just face the fact.. If it can do more, what's the use on arguing "its already good enough??" No its not, the camera is the worse thing ive ever seen.
Dont get me wrong, the phone is great. I love it. The reception is the best ive ever seen.. But we just want them to correct the video driver issue, that is all. Its not harming you... is it? No need to drunk rant ..
Oh and by the way, technology is supposed to improve, the phone is an upgrade. Did it upgrade? No. I see no improvements..
Oh wait!, we got GPS .. I'll give you that.. Even then the GPS takes like 20 minutes to find a satallite. but it is great once its up and running.

I WOULD like to be able to turn on the eye candy and not destroy the usability of my device... even for business purposes

As the video seems to be really low res (QVGA at most) it should work, (we don't know about the bitrate but I'm assuming it's fairly low too).
Most of us who are complaining want a seamless experience. Ie we want to watch the regular videos we want on our computers on our mobile device.
IE scrolling seems nice enough, that seems to differ a bit between ROMs.
I can just share my experience from strart to "finish":
I read up on what device to get. Kaiser was very much hyped at the time. I took the time to read their webpage where they claim that the phone is "more powerful than any other mobile communicator". The same text says that the device is equally good for business and pleasure. It also reccomends using it for gaming:
http://www.htc.com/product/03-product_tytn_II.htm
"More powerful than any mobile communications device you've seen before"
"perfectly for reading and creating e-mails, using applications, or even just playing games."
"Always ready for business - and pleasure"
I also took the time to check out the MSM7200 processor and what that was all about.
Now my primary focus is business. I wanted Office Mobile and a nice contact manager etc. I have no gripes there.
The problem started showing up when I came to the gaming/pleaasure part.
I tried dragging and dropping some TV shows (700kbps 512x384 res) and the playback is prety lousy.
So I went out and bought CorePlayer for 25 bucks. First result was even worse. So then I figured out that I actually had to turn off the standard Windows Mobile rendering interface called DirectDraw. Seemed strange enough as this is THE standard interface for drawing video on a windows mobile device. With a lot of tweaking I got semi acceptable playback in the end.
A day later I started playing around with the camera. It took me about five seconds to realize that it was utterly flawed. Shutter speed (or rather the processing speed) makes the delay from the point where you click the button to where the picture is taken was so slow that none of my pictures came out right.
It's also exceedingly difficult to use the viewfinder seeing as it runs at less than 5 fps and with extreme blur.
Capturing video was also a downer. Instead of the 30 fps @ VGA resolution that the chipset touts I'm getting 10-15 fps and I might add that to me it looks like it's even less than that. Utterly unwatchable.
So ok, video playback and the camera was pretty awful. But as I said I mainly intended to use this for business so I didn't think much more of it.
So I tried surfing a bit on the web. I run a website and I wanted to check my bak account.
What I noticed was that as soon as I visited a "non-Mobile" website everything slowed down. Scrolling takes forever, and also simply rendering the page takes "too" long.
The mobile pages of my service provider works like a charm, but that's a no brainer seeing as they are meant to work on everything from the cheapest 50 dollar phones and up.
Then came the weekend. I was off to some friends that live out in the country. I had to go there by train.
So "hey, great time to load it up with some games".
Some of the games I've heard of was legend of steel and call of duty 2.
Well call of duty 2 was just as mess, with no open gl support.
legend works pretty well unless you actually try to play the game. As soon as the stylus hits that screen everything start going in slow motion.
I resorted to playing bubble breaker and tetris for the trip.
By this time I was pretty annoyed since my 3 year old Sony Ericsson el cheapo 3G-phone gave me a much better gaming experience than this.
So then I resorted to emulators. I really wanted to try out some nice emulating but again, performance was too low.
I didn't expect the TyTN II to be a Playstation Portable challenger but I didn't expect it to be just a typing machine with a calendar attached to it either.
I found this forum and surely enough I found out about the lack of drivers and everything suddenly made sense.
And the thing that bugs me the most about this is that the drivers are readily available to HTC, they just choose not to provide them to us.
So personally I'm a bit pissed off and I surely won't consider HTC a first hand alternative the next time I go shopping for a new PDA phone.
/Scincerele signed "Business users who expected more"
there you go (actually a true story even though a made it cheesy on purpose. )
oh yeah, PS I'm also pretty irritated by the lag that you get when you put the phone in landscape mode or vice versa. And the slight lag that happens when you start programs (you can actually see how the device renders in approx 10-20 lines at a time) it's not a deal breaker but I certainly expected more, especially since I've used similar phones using both pal, symbian and windows mobile and other OSes (even really cheap ones) that don't exhibit the same symptoms.
Still it's only a minor gripe...

The page you shown doesn't prove anything, it is contains for too less content. Try open forum.xda-developers.com you'll see the huge lag...

undac said:
As the video seems to be really low res (QVGA at most) it should work, (we don't know about the bitrate but I'm assuming it's fairly low too).
Most of us who are complaining want a seamless experience. Ie we want to watch the regular videos we want on our computers on our mobile device.
IE scrolling seems nice enough, that seems to differ a bit between ROMs.
I can just share my experience from strart to "finish":
I read up on what device to get. Kaiser was very much hyped at the time. I took the time to read their webpage where they claim that the phone is "more powerful than any other mobile communicator". The same text says that the device is equally good for business and pleasure. It also reccomends using it for gaming:
http://www.htc.com/product/03-product_tytn_II.htm
"More powerful than any mobile communications device you've seen before"
"perfectly for reading and creating e-mails, using applications, or even just playing games."
"Always ready for business - and pleasure"
I also took the time to check out the MSM7200 processor and what that was all about.
Now my primary focus is business. I wanted Office Mobile and a nice contact manager etc. I have no gripes there.
The problem started showing up when I came to the gaming/pleaasure part.
I tried dragging and dropping some TV shows (700kbps 512x384 res) and the playback is prety lousy.
So I went out and bought CorePlayer for 25 bucks. First result was even worse. So then I figured out that I actually had to turn off the standard Windows Mobile rendering interface called DirectDraw. Seemed strange enough as this is THE standard interface for drawing video on a windows mobile device. With a lot of tweaking I got semi acceptable playback in the end.
A day later I started playing around with the camera. It took me about five seconds to realize that it was utterly flawed. Shutter speed (or rather the processing speed) makes the delay from the point where you click the button to where the picture is taken was so slow that none of my pictures came out right.
It's also exceedingly difficult to use the viewfinder seeing as it runs at less than 5 fps and with extreme blur.
Capturing video was also a downer. Instead of the 30 fps @ VGA resolution that the chipset touts I'm getting 10-15 fps and I might add that to me it looks like it's even less than that. Utterly unwatchable.
So ok, video playback and the camera was pretty awful. But as I said I mainly intended to use this for business so I didn't think much more of it.
Then came the weekend. I was off to some friends that live out in the country. I had to go there by train.
So "hey, great time to load it up with some games".
Some of the games I've heard of was legend of steel and call of duty 2.
Well call of duty 2 was just as mess, with no open gl support.
legend works pretty well unless you actually try to play the game. As soon as the stylus hits that screen everything start going in slow motion.
I resorted to playing bubble breaker and tetris for the trip.
By this time I was pretty annoyed since my 3 year old Sony Ericsson el cheapo 3G-phone gave me a much better gaming experience than this.
So then I resorted to emulators. I really wanted to try out some nice emulating but again, performance was too low.
I didn't expect the TyTN II to be a Playstation Portable challenger but I didn't expect it to be just a typing machine with a calendar attached to it either.
I found this forum and surely enough I found out about the lack of drivers and everything suddenly made sense.
And the thing that bugs me the most about this is that the drivers are readily available to HTC, they just choose not to provide them to us.
So personally I'm a bit pissed off and I surely won't consider HTC a first hand alternative the next time I go shopping for a new PDA phone.
/Scincerele signed "Business users who expected more"
there you go (actually a true story even though a made it cheesy on purpose. )
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What he said!!! This is why I left sprint. I got the Mogul, was advertised GPS when it came out. Well to this date, they are waiting for a "rom update".

woo, we really don't need to go into this because by token of that same logic:
Your computer is a business tool, not an entertainment device.
Your car is a business tool and necessity. You don't need a cd player or radio.
etc. etc.
Now why is this a big issue? Because it was false advertising. Because what we bought wasn't just a big mac and some fries. And because what we bought wasn't worth $15. What we bought was worth more than $500 US. What we bought was a device that could do everything and more. Like a car, you didn't just buy it for business, but for pleasure. And to falsely advertise and prey on the good faith of us consumers isn't just bad. It's criminal.

The point is, even if you consider that the TyTN II a business phone and don't care about it preforming way below it's possibilities, the other HTC devices based on the MSM7200 and MSM7500 chipsets, like the Touch Dual and Touch Cruise, which suffer from the same problems, are certainly meant for 'fun user', not 'business user'. And their PREDECESSORS did all of this fine.
So everything you said is still BS.

The youtube Video demonstrates the Kaiser PIE Scroll bug issue, not the Video driver issue btw. That bug was fixed here. Most cooked ROMs now incorporate the fix.

Yes this will be corrected on the site (the GDI video is way better for demonstration anyway, too bad it's not a comparison).. and the new support reports will be added. But if you ask me this is just a distraction. They know full well what the problem is, this is just to give the illusion they really didn't know, and are trying to figure it out, so they can say it really wasn't their fault. They're just acting out a play.
Really, the responce changing not 24 hours after the sites were launched (and they were informed of this, after all) and only 2 or 3 hours after a fairly large tech site frontpaged it? That is not a coincidence.

I have an ipod touch for entertainment. Kaiser for work/travel. Best of both worlds.

Scott_F said:
I have an ipod touch for entertainment. Kaiser for work/travel. Best of both worlds.
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You are an idiot with way too much money and time to spend on two inferior products.

Scott_F said:
I have an ipod touch for entertainment. Kaiser for work/travel. Best of both worlds.
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I have a Kaiser which has the power to do both. Too bad it doesn't. By the way, since you seem to be such a huge fan of having multiple devices for doing multiple things, you should probably sell that Kaiser to get a flip phone, buy a PDA, get yourself a dedicated GPS receiver, and a Walkman radio, since having an all-in-one would be far too much integration for you.

Nick Collision said:
You are an idiot with way too much money and time to spend on two inferior products.
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Awesome.
I bout my Tilt for 588 USD, totally ignoring my upgrade date, with the hopes that i would no longer need two devices. Until they fix the issue, making the device into what I thought I was buying, I will continue to be pissed about this.

this phone is not a graphics device? have you ever seen the datasheet of the MSM2700? THAT WAS THE REASON FOR I GOT MY KAISER!! (and the keyboard)

Nick Collision said:
You are an idiot with way too much money and time to spend on two inferior products.
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Just because he has something made by Apple, doesn't mean it's time to talk ****. I personally don't like apple, but they have created some innovative features for the smart phone world.

Nick Collision said:
You are an idiot with way too much money and time to spend on two inferior products.
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You dont need to insult people because they have different opinion on something.

The Acer Liquid can play 720P videos but not the HD2, WTH?

Just saw this :
http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2009/12/21/acer-liquid-reviewed/
WTH? It's either HTC's fault or Microsofts'/WinMo.Kinda sad that a 1Ghz SnapDragon can't do it compared to the underclocked Acer Liquid.

So what? 720p playback is ONLY useful if you don't have to convert the files or if you want to play them on a TV.
No phone is able to play 720p video without conversion. So the only advantage would be to be able to play HD video via TV out. But the HD2 does not have TV out, so 720p playback would be absolutely useless on the HD2.
On the Acer , like on any other phone, you STILL have to convert the files. It will only play .mp4 video in 720p.
If you play them on the phone, then it doesn't matter whether you convert them to 720p or 480p, the screen is only 800x480 pixels. You have to convert them anyways.
And yes, it's HTC's fault, because they don't fully use the Snapdragon chipset. It has nothing to do with Windows Mobile. But it doesn't matter anyways unless the phone has TV out.

Maybe in a not so far, far away future, it will make sense to have 1080p (or even higher, who knows) capable mobile devices - as soon as they are intended to deliver that high resolution content to a really, really large display.
Watching 480 lines of resolution on a 4.3" screen comes close to watching a 1080p BluRay movie on a 50" TV set, no?
As of today, I am just happy with what HD2 delivers... and for the home cinema experience, I do prefer the "big" screen anyway.

tictac0566 said:
Maybe in a not so far, far away future, it will make sense to have 1080p (or even higher, who knows) capable mobile devices - as soon as they are intended to deliver that high resolution content to a really, really large display.
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Or via TV out!
But as the HD2 does not have TV out, 720p playback would be useless.
(because you'd not be ably to use files from your PC without conversion anyways)

Who says you cant play them with out conversion? I have never converted one file to play on my phone. So yes it would be useful. It its capable of doing it, why the hell cant it, there is not argument here.
It can do it, so it should be able to, simple as that.

Who says you cant play them with out conversion?
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720p works only with hardware acceleration. Hardware acceleration works only for videos converted to the right file format.
No phone currently supports 720p playback without conversion because conversion is needed in order to use the hardware acceleration that the (Snapdragon) chipset provides.
It doesn't matter whether you own an Acer Liquid, an HTC Bravo or an HTC HD2, none of them will play your 720p .avi files from your PC. You have to convert them first.
Conclusion: 720p playback without TV out is useless. Period.
I'm pretty sure HTC left out the HD playback support because they wanted to save money on developing/purchasing the necessary software/drivers. And that is a wise decision for a device without TV out, because 720p playback is useless when you still have to convert the files and have no TV out.

Heu HD2 is able to play 720p
The only bad thing is the non support of AC3 in coreplayer

seed_al said:
No phone currently supports 720p playback without conversion because conversion is needed in order to use the hardware acceleration that the (Snapdragon) chipset provides.
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That is only the case because of the stupidity and narrow-mindedness of HTC and Qualcomm (and, to a degree, Microsoft). There is no technical reason why an application shouldn't be able to handle a much wider range of codecs and still take full advantage of hardware acceleration. But Qualcomm insists on charging too much for the intellectual property rights to run software that is optimised for its hardware; HTC is too mean-minded to pay Qualcomm's fees and too lazy to ship its own multi-format software player (compare with, say, Samsung, whose proprietary video player software is both hardware-accelerated and extremely flexible about formats); and Microsoft can't be arsed to make Pocket Media Player support a sufficient range of formats and codecs either.
One can even quite reasonably blame the authors of Coreplayer for not having yet launched a version capable of using NEON instructions for video acceleration (something that is in the public domain and not under Qualcomm's control). All in all it's a bloody waste.
seed_al said:
But as the HD2 does not have TV out, 720p playback would be useless.
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I completely disagree. Plenty of video is only available in 720p format; even for stuff that is available in 720p and low-res versions, the low-res version is often so low-res that downscaling the HD version would look a lot better on a screen the size of the HD2. It would be enormously much more convenient if one could simply download and play the 720p version without having to spend hour after hour after hour on conversion, and use only one version of the fule on both the phone and a desktop PC. Obviously this is not something you personally would find useful, but that doesn't mean you have to be such a dog-in-the-manger about it: the attitude of "I don't want to do it, therefore no one needs to or should be allowed to" is really rather narrow-minded.

Shasarak,
you don't understand. You are making assumptions that are simply not true. Let me correct you:
That is only the case because of the stupidity and narrow-mindedness of HTC and Qualcomm (and, to a degree, Microsoft).
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Wrong: It has NOTHING to do with Microsoft and HTC. Nothing. It is only because of the Qualcomm chipset, that only supports acceleration for certain video formats.
BUT this is not an 'issue' limited to Qualcomm! There is no phone chipset that supports hardware acceleration of different video formats!
There is no technical reason why an application shouldn't be able to handle a much wider range of codecs and still take full advantage of hardware acceleration.
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I don't know about the reasons, but fact is that NO phone chipsets supports that acceleration. So there must be a reason.
Even IF Microsoft or HTC would develop/pay for the appropriate software, the phones would STILL not be able to play other file formats because the chipset simply doesn't support it.
And other chipsets (not from Qualcomm) don't support it either.
It would be enormously much more convenient if one could simply download and play the 720p version without having to spend hour after hour after hour on conversion,
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Sure, it would be more convenient.
BUT as I explained several times: It doesn't matter whether the phone supports 720p playback or not, because conversion is always necessary due to limitations of the chipset, which only supports acceleration for certail formats (which applies not only to Qualcomm chipsets, but to every other chipset as well).
Obviously this is not something you personally would find useful, but that doesn't mean you have to be such a dog-in-the-manger about it: the attitude of "I don't want to do it, therefore no one needs to or should be allowed to" is really rather narrow-minded.
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Thsi is not my attitude.
PLEASE READ PROPERLY BEFORE YOU ATTACK PEOPLE.
I explained to you in detail why 720p playback ability does NOT mean that conversion is not necessary. Thus, your argument of "not having to convert the videos" is misplaced. As you can read in the article above, the Acer Liquid ONLY plays 720p video that has been converted. And this is the case with any other phone as well, because of the reasons I explained above.

I dont know much about playback in 720p on the HD2 yet, but
Damien123_666 has done loads of camera tweaks (very good by the looks of it) and if you notice, he is working on recording in 720p
im working on 720p, micro-modes, bmp files and also increased video quality so keep looking for updates daily
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So theres obviously the potential

Damiens thread is about recording 720p video, not playing it. Afaik Snapdragon has the potential of recording 720p video.
Here it's true, HTC is to blame for not enabling it.
But what I was talking about is 720p playback.
This is only possible with hardware acceleration.
Hardware acceleration is only possible for certain formats.
This means: Even if your phone supports 720p playback, you still have to convert the files.
Shasarak said that 720p would be a benefit because we would not have to convert the files.
But that's not true.
Even if HTC would develop/purchase the necessary software, we would STILL have to convert the videos.
(like on the Liquid, see the linked post)
That means: The argument of "not having to convert the videos" is not applicable here, because it doesn't matter whether the phone supports 720p or not, the files must ALWAYS be converted.
This means: The only advantage of 720p would be playing back HD videos on a TV.
But our HD2 does not have TV out.
This means: 720p playback capability would not be useful for us, as we would still have to convert the files and we don't have TV out.
I hope that was clear enough now.
@Shasarak
You CAN blame HTC/Microsoft for not enabling 720p playback, that's true.
BUT even IF they would enable it, they could ONLY enable it for certain file formats. You CAN NOT blame them for not enabling 720p for all formats, because this is a hardware limitation that exists on all other phones as well, no matter what manufacturer or OS.

I think you will find that people were blaming HTC for not enabling support. No one was complaining about it being available on only certain formats.
If my phone is capable of something, then I would like it to be able to do it. Simple as that.

No, you got it wrong, too.
People are not only blaming HTC for not enabling 720p playback, they are also blaming HTC/MS for not enabling it for all formats, and that's nonsense because that is not HTC's or MS's fault but a hardware limitation.
Just because the hardware is capable doesn't mean you can expect the support. It also needs software and that adds additional developing costs!
If HTC would have enabled it, they would have had additional costs, which means the phone would have been more expensive for you.
You can only expect what you pay for. You paid NOT for 720p video support, because that was not advertised anywhere by HTC.
HTC made the desicion not to enable it in order to be able to sell the phone at lower price. You either respect that desicion or buy another phone. You can not expect anything that nobody promised to you.
And as explained before, due to the fact that conversion is ALWAYS needed, 720p support is useless without TV out. You should be happy that you didn't have to pay for a useless feature.

seed_al
WTF are you talking about? Convertion is always needed? The CPU will downscale the video on the fly to fit the screen. You don't seem to know much (just like the Zunehd does). Any CPU is capable of.playing any format as long as the software enables it. You don't seem to understand this. SnapDragon just like nVidia's Tegra APX (& iPhone 3GS) is capable of decoding 720p WMV/MP4/H.264 at a bitrate up to 14bit/s 29fps. Even a feking Pentium2 can do this but at something like 0.02fps. The fact is that the software/drivers on WinMo aren't provided on the HD2

@MasterTP
Wrong. Completely.
You're mixing up hardware and software decoding! Do some research.
Of course any CPU can play anything. But only with software decoding, no hardware acceleration!
Hardware acceleration is only possible for certain formats. You even said that yourself: Snapdragon is cabable of decoding H.264/MP4 with the right software. But nothing else. Same for Tegra, iPhone and all the others!
That means even IF HTC had enabled 720p support, we would still have to convert the videos. Exactly what I said above. So please, next time, think before you post, instead of mixing everything up.
You guys are mixing everything up! I really don't know how to explain it any clearer.
I'll try one last time:
Okay, first of all: You have to distinguish between software and hardware decoding.
Every CPU can decode anything via software with the right codecs. That's what programs like Coreplayer do.
BUT: Software decoding is slow. Much too slow for 720p HD video.
THUS: 720p playback is only possible with hardware decoding.
Snapdragon, Tegra etc. support hardware decoding of 720p video.
BUT: Only for certain formats and only with the right software.
THUS: If HTC would provide the software, we could play 720p video like the Acer Liquid.
BUT: We would still have to convert the video files! (same for Acer Liquid, iPhone etc.)
THUS: The 720p playback capability would not free us from having to convert the videos!
THUS: The only advantage would be the ability to play 720p video on a TV.
BUT: Our HD2 does not have TV out.
THUS: 720p playback capability would not help us at all. We would still have to convert the videos and we would still have no TV out.
Okay, I think this is as clear as it gets. Got it now?

This thread made me lol
Personally I want my phone's battery to get hot enough for use as a hotplate.
There isn't a technical reason not to un-enable this non-feature, so HTC are stupid and m$ is evil.
F.Y.I Macbooks can do this since 2006 so don't say I'm uninformed

seed_al said:
You guys are mixing everything up!
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No, I'm afraid you're the one who is mixing things up. It is indeed the situation at the moment is that only certain video player applications can make use of hardware acceleration on the HD2, and that those applications are only capable of playing a limited range of video formats. You make the mistake of assuming that, because this is the case, there must be something about those video formats which makes it inherently easy to play them with hardware acceleration, while it is inherently not possible to play any other format that way.
That is not true. There is no technical reason why someone cannot make a video player app which can play back any video and take advantage of hardware acceleration while doing it; the reason this hasn't happened is because of a combination of money-grubbing, selfishiness and incompetence on the part of Qualcomm, HTC, Microsoft, and a few other companies too.
If either Qualcomm were to release full details of their hardware, or HTC were prepared to spend a little more money, someone would then be able to write a video player app which could play back as many formats as Coreplayer and use full hardware acceleration while doing it. Whether that theoretical application could play back 720p video smoothly is another question; but I wouldn't be surprised. Assuming it could, such an application would require no conversion of 720p material to play it.

seed_al said:
No, you got it wrong, too.
People are not only blaming HTC for not enabling 720p playback, they are also blaming HTC/MS for not enabling it for all formats, and that's nonsense because that is not HTC's or MS's fault but a hardware limitation.
Just because the hardware is capable doesn't mean you can expect the support. It also needs software and that adds additional developing costs!
If HTC would have enabled it, they would have had additional costs, which means the phone would have been more expensive for you.
You can only expect what you pay for. You paid NOT for 720p video support, because that was not advertised anywhere by HTC.
HTC made the desicion not to enable it in order to be able to sell the phone at lower price. You either respect that desicion or buy another phone. You can not expect anything that nobody promised to you.
And as explained before, due to the fact that conversion is ALWAYS needed, 720p support is useless without TV out. You should be happy that you didn't have to pay for a useless feature.
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well it DOSE can play 720P with htc album. but for baseline profile and only 15fps……OK? 720P is here will you use it？

I don't know what seed_al was talking about.
I can play 720p video on my Touch HD (not HD2), but the performance is terrible.
If CPU is powerful enough, and software can utilize the GPU, playing back 720p (.avi) smoothly on a phone is possible for sure.

[deleted - Mod please delete this message]

Removed

Deleted.

Discontinued.

twistedumbrella said:
So two huge improvement could be made to truly capture the VR effect and reduce the need for everyone to have a 128 GB card:
Add a passthrough camera mode.
Support streaming video locally.
Yes, MilkVR lets you load videos, but it is boring. Adding the functionality to Cinema would allow you to enjoy all those little touches.
Passthrough should be obvious. Instead of void theater, you could watch a projection TV in your room without buying a projection TV and not get startled when the cat jumps on you just as something happens in the movie.
The Cinema app is open source, so the only question is whether it would be worthwhile to patch in the features.
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Those are some great ideas, and I'm definitely thinking we're going to see apps that offer these features when the paid appstore launches. Would also like to add more controls for placement relative to the screen and experience (some of the cardboard apps have more control/exeriences than the oculus cinema app).

Toss3 said:
Those are some great ideas, and I'm definitely thinking we're going to see apps that offer these features when the paid appstore launches. Would also like to add more controls for placement relative to the screen and experience (some of the cardboard apps have more control/exeriences than the oculus cinema app).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have gotten the impression some developer used the paid store as a scapegoat and it's spiraled into an excuse for most. It's not the user's fault for accepting it, since it sounds logical. The only reason I don't buy into it is how little advertising is being done for upcoming paid apps. It would be one thing to say Blockbuster is waiting for it, but Johnny Noname needs all the preemptive marketing he can rally.
The cardboard apps aren't so different in the design. It's the SDK that does all that fancy latency stuff. I'll have to dig around and see if any are interested in converting.

Honor Play obtains Netflix HDR Certification

Honor Play obtains Netflix HDR Certification, see the news here https://www.xda-developers.com/netflix-hdr-oneplus-7-razer-phone-2-huawei-p30-pro-honor-play/
Netflix! We all watch it obsessively. Some of us actually pay for it. Others… not so much. That’s what roommates and parents are for.
I’m sure that you’ve watched your fair share of Netflix in general, and at least some Netflix on your phone. Your mobile viewing has probably been restricted to the occasional episode or two of your favorite series, with the binge-watching reserved for your laptop or home Roku. That makes sense. There’s no substitute for a larger screen, especially for content as visceral as Black Mirror or Stranger Things. No substitute, perhaps, but some phones are endowed with the capability to make Netflix viewing well worth it on a smaller screen. Maybe not binge-worthy, more like binge-adjacent.
HDR (not to be confused with simple HD or HDR photography) stands for high dynamic range, and in this context refers to improved display quality in high dynamic range frames. When activated on Netflix, HDR mode brings to life details that lurk in the excessively bright and dark areas on screen. Without HDR, a dark room is shown as essentially pitch-black, lacking subtle degrees of darkness. HDR, on the other hand, retains the creepy hue that the director intended to invoke, with background objects visible to you as if you were standing in the room. When available for a horror or action movie in particular, HDR can be a life-changing experience, lifelike and immersive beyond comprehension.
That’s why I was thrilled to learn that my Honor Play phone recently got HDR-certified by Netflix, a revelation that has profoundly upgraded my mobile viewing experience. Previously, I’d mostly avoid watching Netflix on my phone, except for an incident of profound boredom, like a delayed flight, when my laptop wasn’t available for whatever reason. Now I feel empowered to do some dedicated Netflix viewing on my phone, which keeps me occupied when I have a lot of downtime away from home. It’s not as though I’ll spend an entire afternoon watching several episodes in a row, even with HDR. Rather, I no longer feel like I’m cheating myself by opting for the instant gratification of watching something in HDR on my phone, in the moment.
I’m also interested to see if the Netflix seal of approval for Honor Play comes with any new perks in the coming months. After all, the list of HDR-supported devices is pretty select, as is. Netflix is getting some serious heat from Hulu and Amazon Prime, so it’s possible that it will continue to upgrade the display experience, and use the handful of HDR-supported devices to test out the enhanced display! We’ll see!
The irony is that when I bought my phone about six months ago, I didn’t really consider how well it would stream movies or TV shows. I was mostly drawn in by the price and the gaming experience, in particular the haptic touch, which is truly unique, and came highly recommended. The Netflix HDR is kind of like the cherry on top. It’s cool to think that my phone is equipped with some unique utility that has nothing to do with gaming.
You might have seen that the Honor 20 came out recently. I mention it mostly to speculate about the possibility that it will also be fast-tracked for Netflix HDR certification. I’ve seen that Netflix tends to cluster its certifications by brand, the Honor 20 specs are largely similar to the Honor Play, for whatever that’s worth. I have a couple of friends that are interested in getting a new phone, and if the Honor 20 does get Netflix HDR, I’d definitely recommend it on that basis.

Themes / Apps / Mods s21 ultra 108mp raw

hello i'm nosidam although you can refer to me as nosi or idam for short, at any rate it has come to my attention that for over two year's individuals much like myself that are into high resolution photography have been wanting access to the raw resolution of the hundred and eight megapixel (108mp) sensor and countless have tried but unfortunately to the best of my knowledge to no avail, for the past few months i've been working on just that and recently completed the project. the hundred and eight megapixel (108mp) sensor with raw resolution has been unlocked the only dilemma now is making it possible for other's to do it, my method required a very custom language and architecture emulation in order to make it possible and unfortunately the very language and architecture as you could surmise from the necessity for emulation was derived from custom harware and wasn't designed to be utilized in conjunction or substitution for commercial applications or software, additionally unfortunately the language is behind a wall of confidentiality obligation due to what it's used in and for so as you can imagine that means i can't simply distribute it openly although i am working on another project to make it possible utilizing commercially accessible and viable software that can be distributed so that it'll be available for disclosure although until then despite not being able to currently share something distributable i can actually show you the results and comparisons and results of my tests as well as give you some interesting statistics lol.
project C.I.A.R.A. - Google Drive
drive.google.com
that should be a link to a google drive folder that has various comparison photos, i've never posted on here before so i don't know if the attached image's will be fully viewable in their respective resolution or if they'll be compressed or not as of such you should be able to download and view the images without any compression from google drive also i tried drop box but it's uploading was spotty and slow despite having fiber gigabit internet and they only offered two gigabytes, so google drive being much faster and consistent without random pauses for uploading in addition to boasting a free ten gigabytes was a clear winner lol,
the phone's default hundred and eight megapixel (108mp) sensor photo is the file labeled:
"20230516_175804"
it's resolution is twelve thousand by nine thousand (12,000x9,000) with a standard dynamic range and is a jpeg file that has been compressed down from what should have been an absolute minimum of a hundred and eight megabytes (108mb) down to just thirty one point seventy six megabytes (31.76mb) which is a minimum compression in file size of seventy point fifty nine percent (70.59%) so as you can imagine it becomes something similar and or closer to being akin to that of a hot mess so to speak, you'll usually see over sharpening occasionally to help accommodate for a lack of quality to give "perceived quality" and seemingly a lack of dynamic range(potentially from the compression or justcthe onboard post processing) as well as artifacting... which personally i do understand why they would do such a thing, people would run out of memory substantially faster if each photo was over a hundred megabytes minimum but honestly if i'm spending one point four thousand dollars on a phone then i'd like access to everything the camera has to offer therefore even if it's hidden behind advanced settings i think we should at least have the choice, although unfortunately even the twenty one ultra with all of it's very state of the art power and processing especially at release still struggles to handle that amount of information and memory so i have to wait between photo's because the phone gets very hot and also starts to stutter or freeze a bit, utilizing the full potential of the sensor is slightly unstable but still possible and i think they should allow it could to be enabled with a disclosure that it's a potentially unstable and experimental setting but instead it's full potential has remained behind close doors so to speak (os lockdown and software lockouts) well i'm working on making the raw one hundred and eight megapixel(108mp) sensors raw potential commercially available i'm also working on a professional mode in my own functional language which will allow much more fine precision control.
now for the moment of truth, the file named:
"20230516_175938"
is twelve thousand by nine thousand (12,000x9,000) in resolution and has a file size of one hundred and sixty nine point fifty four megabytes(169.54mb) with a seemingly high dynamic range(either that or the standard dynamic range has been impacted by the onboard post processing and compression) so just by the file size differential i'm quite certain that you can ascertain that it's actually going to retain all of it's quality lol it's fifty six point ninty eight percent(56.98%) higher in file size than the bare minimum hundred and eight megabytes(108mb) standard, overall it's file size in comparison to the phone's default version is five hundred and thirty three point eighty two percent(533.82%) higher meaning that the phone's image is only eighteen point seventy three percent(18.73%) the size of the raw file quality one, which is a mind-numbingly substantial difference lol and personally i will always take higher quality and larger file sizes over low quality smaller file sizes, i haven't gotten an s23 ultra yet but if i do you can be sure that i'll endeavor to unlock it's two hundred megapixel(200mp) sensors potential, it's my opinion that if these sensors exist in our phones then we should be allowed to fully utilize they're capabilities and potential lol.
i created some very easy comparison crop out photos from each image that have been cropped(not resized) to the standard 1440x3200(WQHD+) resolution of these screens, the first screen shot is a WQHD+ comparison cropped from the default one hundred and eight megapixel(108mp) photo and is named:
"IMG_20230520_133504"
and is very clearly compressed by the aforementioned percentage whereas the WQHD+ comparison taken from the raw quality version is named:
"20230516_221938"
and is very clearly not compressed and retains all of it's raw quality potential.
on a sidenote i'd like to extend special thanks to M0nK_101 for suggesting a variety of sharing services such as drop box and google drive at my request to share the comparisons lol.
^.^
if you have any questions or concerns feel free to let me know.
with that said i'd like to thank you for potentially taking the time and patience to read this i appreciate it.
^_^

So like any update? Will it work on other devices using samsung sensor?
like Redmi 10 pro using hm2

Inzamam567 said:
So like any update? Will it work on other devices using samsung sensor?
like Redmi 10 pro using hm2
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affirmative unfortunately thus far i have not yet found an unofficially distributed commercially accessible means to unluck the 108mp sensors raw quality potential outside of my project C.I.A.R.A emulation although rest assured i'm still currently working on it also i'll elaborate compatability details when a publicly distributable prototype is viable lol.
^_^

Is this just an app or an entire OS?

neither it behaves in certain ways like an application although ultimately it's custom hardware software emulation that allows the internal onboard sensor algorithms responsible for compression and file formatting to be sidestepped so to speak.
^_^

I see, very interesting! So I would Hage to hook the camera module up to another board in access it from there? Or will it be possible to use the phone itself?

indeed and negative you could utilize the phone itself.
^_^