Related
Okay, this post is really intended as a comment and I am not going to pretend I have THE answer but I do have some suggestions to spark discussion.
Based on a lot of the recent comments and back and forth about newbies/tech support I think that the forum is trending the same way I have seen MANY other forums go. What happens is simple; a group of first adopters, who are by default, technically capable, get together on a forum and start to fill in the gaps in tech support, especially when it comes to 'modded' soft or hardwre. They spend a while helping each other out and a comfort level develops. Members know where to go, and when to ask questions.
Then what happens is that the hardware becomes much more popular. All of a sudden your average Joe can walk out a Cingular store with a 8125 for a couple hundred bucks. These folks are NOT early adopters. They are not necessarily tech savvy. They are the people that are most prone to 'keyboard to chair interface errors'. Since the early members did such a good job raising the profile of the forum it starts to come up every time someone does a Google search. and they all end up over their heads.
So then the folks that have been around for a while start to get frustrated. Why should they provide tech support? Why can't these newbies read? Why should they even try to help if they get barraged by stupid questions?
Well I think that takes us to where we are now, so the question is what do we do now? In my experience the only solution that I have seen is to have people equally dedicated to wiki and sticky writing as they are to writing ROMs and programs. The truth is that if you release something you WILL become tech support and a large part of tech support is writing documentation and then explaining it to others.
I have intended this post as something helpful and to spark discussion, not as a criticism of anyone in particular or any particular group. Hopefully it will be taken as such
I agree. I get the feeling that since the relaunch, for one reason or another, there appears to be a lot more"Why don't my apps close when I press X?" and "How dat I swtich this thing 0ff!!!!!!!" type posts.
I think that it's beholden on more experienced users to try to share their experience as they see fit, but it's absolutely essential that newbs and less experienced users use the search button and wiki.
I've been sponsoring a post in the moderators' forum regarding having a specific section for Tutorials etc, eg for the excellent posts that Menneisyys puts together. The wiki may not be the best place for them (due to the risk of negative edits), although it's certainly better then people never looking at them at all...
But as you say, it's pretty much predicted by psychohistory that all fora of dedicated people will eventually turn into a tech support. I don't mind, but less experienced must use the resources already online - quid pro quo.
V
As a new user on this forum i have noticed inconsitant information about G3 vs G4 devices and ROM upgrading. I've seen questions asked by people about G4 devices that go unanswered.
I think the problem with searching on this forum and many others. They do not allow you to search for 3 or fewer letter acronyms such as IPL, SPL, CID. There is no way to search for answers about these things. If there is a setting on the forum that can be changed to allow searching for these terms, then please fix it.
I think when people start posting info about how they did something they need to specify what hardware they are using G3/G4. Thankfully i havent done anything as far as modding my device, but i had seen posts where someone most likely with a G3 device says they figured out how to do this or that, Then someone with a G4 comes along and tried it, not knowing it was done on a G3 and ended up screwing up their device. We need to clearly specify what hardware we are doing mods on.
I still have no clear answer about CID unlocking a G4. I know there is no free utility to do it. Ive seen posts that say the imei-check site can CID unlock. Then i saw a post this morning that imei-check is only a SIM unlock. Can people please provide clear info?
d0ug said:
As a new user on this forum i have noticed inconsitant information about G3 vs G4 devices and ROM upgrading. I've seen questions asked by people about G4 devices that go unanswered.
I think the problem with searching on this forum and many others. They do not allow you to search for 3 or fewer letter acronyms such as IPL, SPL, CID. There is no way to search for answers about these things. If there is a setting on the forum that can be changed to allow searching for these terms, then please fix it.
I think when people start posting info about how they did something they need to specify what hardware they are using G3/G4. Thankfully i havent done anything as far as modding my device, but i had seen posts where someone most likely with a G3 device says they figured out how to do this or that, Then someone with a G4 comes along and tried it, not knowing it was done on a G3 and ended up screwing up their device. We need to clearly specify what hardware we are doing mods on.
I still have no clear answer about CID unlocking a G4. I know there is no free utility to do it. Ive seen posts that say the imei-check site can CID unlock. Then i saw a post this morning that imei-check is only a SIM unlock. Can people please provide clear info?
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I agree with you d0ug! It is rather confusing to navigate and find your way. Especially when you are a n00b, such as myself. I have been trying to mod my phone for 3 days now. I have tried many ways of unlocking my G3, but none of them have worked. I have listened to 3 different people tell me their "way" of unlocking the phone, and all 3 attempts failed in the end. I get flamed for not reading posts or searching, when i did, just nothing relevant popped up! This is not a whine fest, just saying that some people dont have phones that were built on a Wednesday, like mine that was probably built on a Monday and has issues!
Either way, i called Cingular and they are shipping me a brand new 8125 to test things out on!
Canon
Haven't been a wizard user that long although I've been in the ppc scene in about 5 years and quite active in several forums. The most successful solution that I've seen to this problem (witch enevitably always comes up) is to not let new users post for at least 7 days and/or forcing them to read various informational topics before getting access to the actual forum.
This will of course not get everyone but has in my experience improved the situation considerably.
Ah well, that's just my two cents
vijay555 said:
I agree. I get the feeling that since the relaunch, for one reason or another, there appears to be a lot more"Why don't my apps close when I press X?" and "How dat I swtich this thing 0ff!!!!!!!" type posts.
I think that it's beholden on more experienced users to try to share their experience as they see fit, but it's absolutely essential that newbs and less experienced users use the search button and wiki.
I've been sponsoring a post in the moderators' forum regarding having a specific section for Tutorials etc, eg for the excellent posts that Menneisyys puts together. The wiki may not be the best place for them (due to the risk of negative edits), although it's certainly better then people never looking at them at all...
But as you say, it's pretty much predicted by psychohistory that all fora of dedicated people will eventually turn into a tech support. I don't mind, but less experienced must use the resources already online - quid pro quo.
V
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Vijay, very happy to see that the mods are looking at this. I agree that Wiki's have their limitations especially given the validity of some of the comments about conflicting advice.
The search function definitely does have its limits as well, and people are less likely to go through searches that produce a 100 threads with 5 pages each.
I for one would feel a lot better about telling someone harshly to stop answering questions if I knew that I could also direct them to a single place for answers.
I really love this forum and it has helped me so much. I don't post much except to say "thank you" from time to time to the people who have made some program that has been helpful to me. And although I have been coming to this board every day for over a year I still don't know half as much as the majority of people here.
Some solutions to this problem are:
1) get frustrated and write a mean message to the noob
2) take a minute and just give the link to the page where the answer is
3) make it easier on this forum to find things
_Nomad_ said:
Haven't been a wizard user that long although I've been in the ppc scene in about 5 years and quite active in several forums. The most successful solution that I've seen to this problem (witch enevitably always comes up) is to not let new users post for at least 7 days and/or forcing them to read various informational topics before getting access to the actual forum.
This will of course not get everyone but has in my experience improved the situation considerably.
Ah well, that's just my two cents
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That could be nice... part of the things that had contributed to the bad search results are the tons of new threads asking the very same questions over and over and over again... is there anyway to disable these threads from showing up in the search results? Maybe it's time for us to out up another sticky thread specifically talking abóut G4 devices =)
vseehua said:
That could be nice... part of the things that had contributed to the bad search results are the tons of new threads asking the very same questions over and over and over again... is there anyway to disable these threads from showing up in the search results? Maybe it's time for us to out up another sticky thread specifically talking abóut G4 devices =)
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I would like to see a thread dedicated to G4 devices, with verified correct information in it.
It isnt just people asking the same questions over and over making the search junk. Its the inability to even search for simple short 3 letter acronyms like CID, IPL, SPL, AKU. These are all things I have tried to search for and get 0 results. If I were able to search for these terms I could probably turn up a wealth of information on my own.
_Nomad_ said:
Haven't been a wizard user that long although I've been in the ppc scene in about 5 years and quite active in several forums. The most successful solution that I've seen to this problem (witch enevitably always comes up) is to not let new users post for at least 7 days and/or forcing them to read various informational topics before getting access to the actual forum.
This will of course not get everyone but has in my experience improved the situation considerably.
Ah well, that's just my two cents
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That would work me thinks!!!!!
Hi all,
I've been reading this forum for weeks now and still have not found enough answers to be secure enough and cid-unlock my G3 2.21 vario.
I HAVE indeed read most relevant threads, although navigating them can be somewhat confusing. However When I posted some -in my n00b opinion - valid questions I either got 1) no reply whatsoever 2) replies to read "the" threads....which wasn't really helpfull or I wouldn't have asked 3) contradicting advice .... like a 2.21 G3 Can be unlocked, or it Cannot be unlocked, you have to downgrade twice, you have to upgrade twice, you Can or Cannot flash a G4 rom to a G3 device so you won't have to downgrade and CID unlock your phone first, etc.
I believe that I am somewhat beyond the real n00b level right now but still I'd like information to be more consistent and easier to find, I've already tried to suggest making a stickied n00b FAQ or wiki for us where to find the basic answers in a easy and consistent manner so the sdame questions aren't asked over and over and ROM threads hijacked for support questions.
but that is just my cup of tea.
thanks for a good forum with vlauable info.
stefan.
Regular search
Personally, I find using google or yahoo, with site:xda-developers.com, works much better than the forum search. My personal pet peeve is the inability to use quotes to search for phrases. Quotes don't work.
A major problem with "read the threads" is the 800+ entry length of some of them. It would be nice to try to harness the power of those of us newly figuring things out and ask them to submit a wiki for something they just learned. If we had a submission point for the wiki, perhaps those of us who recently learned new things would do a how-to write-up and submit it to the wiki.
Finally, there are a lot of repeat threads, many with false or useless information. These threads stand in the way of a searcher. I would be happier if the moderators deleted more bad threads. Alternatively, we could use democracy -- add a "vote to delete" button to every thread not posted by a moderator and if a high enough percentage vote to delete, the thread is gone. I'd suggest 20% as a threshold -- more than that and the thread goes away.
Have been reading all your comments and completely agree with you guys... I see you have specific problems on G3/G4 on Wizards, as someone suggested a separate subforum for G4 devices would be ideal for you, and also for Prophet I guess.
About the search functions I'm also using google to search as a fallback when I can't find specific things using vBulletin's integrated search function, there's a thread on the mod forum where we discussed how to improve it, but seems is not very active now... will try to push Flar to do something about that.
Regarding the wiki, I think everyone should be less afraid to edit, if you look at the "recent changes" you see always the same people is editing. Have a look at the Hermes or BlueAngel wiki pages, these are good examples on how info has to be organized on the wiki, it's easy to find everything on the front page and information is well divided. Formating may seem a bit complicated at the beginning, but you don't have to care too much if you just want to add content, sure someone more experienced with wiki syntax will edit and correct any bad formating mistakes.
I do 100% agree with you that the wiki itself doesn't cover half of what it should. Yet if you take the time to read through it, and the links, you should be quite familiar with your device...
And oh yeah, sure, you can't search for keywords less than four characters, but that's not really an excuse... look at the thread containing the latest Faria ROM. Half... Half of what the thread contains is the same question over and over again... those ppl didn't even read the initial post of the thread... they found the download link, tried to install the ROM, got problem and went right to work, posting their (stupid) question all over again and again... The problem was never the limited search capabilities... It's always the ppl...
A board without limitations always get bloated with crap, whether it's unwanted commercial och just plain stupid posts...
So, unfortunatly this is going to continue unless you put constraints on the board... I'm sorry, but that's what's gonna happen.
Seems to me that since this was posted the situation has sorta escalated... Faria, Molski, risidoro and just now Dr P has announced their leave.
In this rate all that'll be left will be the newbies soon. Sad to witness
_Nomad_ said:
And oh yeah, sure, you can't search for keywords less than four characters, but that's not really an excuse... look at the thread containing the latest Faria ROM. Half... Half of what the thread contains is the same question over and over again... those ppl didn't even read the initial post of the thread... they found the download link, tried to install the ROM, got problem and went right to work, posting their (stupid) question all over again and again... The problem was never the limited search capabilities... It's always the ppl...
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It's also very human.
_Nomad_ said:
A board without limitations always get bloated with crap, whether it's unwanted commercial och just plain stupid posts...
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There just should be enough moderators. Now what happens when you write something stupid is you also get useless answers like "don't do that" which just makes everything even worse. There should be a "FAQ"-section, there should be a "how-to"-section etc...but there isn't. The forum structure is FAR TOO SIMPLE to handle the amount of messages.
Two main things to handle this (just my opinion):
Re-designed forum structure
Moderators
(well, the structure should be designed in the first place so that it would be easy to extend it later...not an easy job)
prestonmcafee said:
...A major problem with "read the threads" is the 800+ entry length of some of them. It would be nice to try to harness the power of those of us newly figuring things out...
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I usually suggest to those asking questions to post the solution to their question in the first post. But I'm over at the Mio forums, and since we only have 4500 peps, the mods aren't overwhelmed. I can lock a thread, post the correct thread to post in, and a few days later, delete the thread. I spend 1/2 my time using the search function to consolidate questions into single threads. But like I said, that's not feasible here. I suggest a PM sent to everyone the registers, that is kind of a quick start guide. I understand why the 3 letter limit, because people type words like "the" and "and". I'm not sure how powerful the forum software is, but it would be nice to remove the size limit, and omit such words as mentioned above, from the search.
Regards,
Jason
mlehtola said:
There should be a "FAQ"-section, there should be a "how-to"-section etc...but there isn't. The forum structure is FAR TOO SIMPLE to handle the amount of messages.
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Ummm, have you ever taken the time to look at the Wiki?
This forum is being provided to us basically for free. (Except for voluntary donations.) I personally can't afford to donate $$$ to the community, or for that matter to individual developers, so I dedicate some time to post in the forums to share what I've learned. I have also donated time to updating the Wiki.
If the Wiki doesn't contain all you would like it to, just add it yourself! One brief tutorial could make a world of difference to a newbie, or even a more experienced user. It also helps to point out gaps in the general knowledge we have here in these forums.
If, for example, there isn't a sub-forum for the device you use, you don't have to wait for the moderators, etc. to create it. Just create a Wiki page, and get the ball rolling on your own!
Take the initiative! That's what these forums were founded on!
Just my opinion.
Now go have fun!
JKR said:
I suggest a PM sent to everyone the registers, that is kind of a quick start guide. I understand why the 3 letter limit, because people type words like "the" and "and". I'm not sure how powerful the forum software is, but it would be nice to remove the size limit, and omit such words as mentioned above, from the search.
Regards,
Jason
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First of all, you get much better, and more detailed search results by using a search-engine like Google. Their advanced search features do a fantastic job, and can be fine tuned to search only through a specific site. (i.e. http://forum.xdadevelopers.com )
Secondly, as opposed to a PM, possibly an email with a confirmation link after the introductory information.
Hope this helps....
Now go have fun!
I think it is more synonymous of the world today, do you read the manual when you buy a new stereo or mobile phone, or do you dig in saying 'nah i know how it works it'll be ok'. People just dont take the time to understand first, they think they know it all and then the proverbial hits the fan! As an experienced R&D firmware developer it doesn't matter how easy I make the interface you will always get those that stuff it up!
So not such an easy one to fix, you have given the masses a place to ask the ridiculous and the tools to stuff up easily, How do you fix that?
Riptos
I'm saddened by the high increase of irrelevant posts, and even more about the sometimes aggressive responses given to newbies.
As I see it, there is no way to completely get rid of newbies' questions or posts. So, the poll' question is: what should be the best attitude toward irrelevant posts/questions?
I hope this poll might contribute some how in having a better conduct and efficiency here in XDA.
Cheers everyone
FYI, check also XDA official' RULES: Please read this before posting
You need another voting option: post a link to the appropriate page/site (Wiki, MrVanx's Guide etc) and advise them to read as much as possible and understand what they are doing before they create a very expensive brick, without wasting time insulting and looking like an arrogant ****.
Short polite and to the point.
Unless you have a hangover of course........
I second that option
That didn't even work in this case.
That one's not even smart enough to click on the hyperlink to get the information he was "spoon fed".
newbie2 said:
That didn't even work in this case.
That one's not even smart enough to click on the hyperlink to get the information he was "spoon fed".
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tragic....i cant beleive people like this do anything else on their phone other than pressing numbers and hitting send/end.
chrisjasper said:
You need another voting option: post a link to the appropriate page/site (Wiki, MrVanx's Guide etc) and advise them to read as much as possible and understand what they are doing before they create a very expensive brick, without wasting time insulting and looking like an arrogant ****.
Short polite and to the point.
Unless you have a hangover of course........
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I think the 3rd option is the one that comes nearest in this situation.
Here´s a proposal
Prerna said:
I'm saddened by the high increase of irrelevant posts, and even more about the sometimes aggressive responses given to newbies.
As I see it, there is no way to completely get rid of newbies' questions or posts. So, the poll' question is: what should be the best attitude toward irrelevant posts/questions?
I hope this poll might contribute some how in having a better conduct and efficiency here in XDA.
Cheers everyone
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Click to collapse
I´m a member of another forum (not related to phones nor PPCs !) Whenever a question comes on an issue of those already answered a ton of times the moderator "sends the member posting the question TO READ", this means that this member has no right to post anything during a week. I don´t know if this forum has such capability and I don´t know neither if the mods would be willing to take this "extra" job.
Sounds quite drastic, although maybe a base to think of other possibilities how to handle the issue.
Surely, XDA deserves better than what I've seen in the past few weeks in the Hermes' forum.
Answer the question or STFU
But above all, don't reply to the post with an RTFM Noob post only. Maybe answer the question then do an RTFM in the same post.
RTFM posts add no value whatsoever, aside from making the poster feel smart.
-Humbert
Prerna said:
I'm saddened by the high increase of irrelevant posts, and even more about the sometimes aggressive responses given to newbies.
As I see it, there is no way to completely get rid of newbies' questions or posts. So, the poll' question is: what should be the best attitude toward irrelevant posts/questions?
I hope this poll might contribute some how in having a better conduct and efficiency here in XDA.
Cheers everyone
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Click to collapse
Well, I am new to this forum. But, I have to agree we need aggressive measure to deal with people don't do the work of search.
Personally, I don't have many posts because I can find answers to almost all of my questions just by searching and spend time reading. So, not all newbies are bad, but you need to deal with the bad ones with a hard hand.
You senior members are getting about as bad on this issue as the newbies asking the same questions over and over. If you would have used the search button, you would have found that there have been 3950 threads about what to do with newbies and 423,654 flame posts to a newbie. Okay, so that was a joke but, for the love of all things holy, can we move on?
Sincerely,
Newbie who uses search button, has read the wiki (in part so far) and who doesn't ask questions that could in any way be misconstrued as not having done the aforementioned.
Scratch that. I am now a junior member. Woohoo for me!
help them,
some people are not pda svay and new to it all,they may have had a cell prior and dont work in a tech/IT role so may not be to sharp on a lot of the tech side
Everyone starts somewere,if you can take the time to reply with an insult or try google ,then you can find the time to point em in the right direction
Imagine if you took your car to be looked at and got the same response,ok the info is free and you can use search,but a little help goes a long way
its the net ,use it to gain info and spread it,not sit being smug or post insults
if we all use the net to its full potential we can achive so many things
i am sure we all have been newbies before. how would you have like to be treated/replied?
i suggest if the noob question is polite, then answer it politely and give some advise on how to use the search function and the wiki.
if the noob question is somehow impolite, aggressive, etc., perhaps a little apprehension/reminder is required.
jaceuk said:
help them,
some people are not pda svay and new to it all,they may have had a cell prior and dont work in a tech/IT role so may not be to sharp on a lot of the tech side
Everyone starts somewere,if you can take the time to reply with an insult or try google ,then you can find the time to point em in the right direction
Imagine if you took your car to be looked at and got the same response,ok the info is free and you can use search,but a little help goes a long way
its the net ,use it to gain info and spread it,not sit being smug or post insults
if we all use the net to its full potential we can achive so many things
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You've taken your car to be looked at and NOT got the same response?
Wow, you have nicer car mechanics in your area.....
There are various levels of noob, which need to be distinguished between.
There are those who have tried to search and read but not fund the answer, although it may be there. (maybe wrong search terms)
There are those who have not looked hard enough and are just being lazy. (perhaps they were put off by the huge number of posts etc)
There are those who demand answers without looking.
There are those who demand answers to questions which demonstrate that they really have not even tried to get any kind of an idea of what they are doing.
Favourite recent examples are :
CAN I LOAD WINDOWS MOBILE 6.0 ON SONYERICSSON M600i (UIQ 3)
i have downloaded black v3 but want to check if it will install to my Dell Axim aswell as my spv????
Where can I get Windows Mobile 6?
Tis funny, another post on what to do with us...
Hi, as a noob myself, new to the hermes, nothing else... I lurked here for a while before actually registering... I was really disheartened by the posts of RTFM and the like... I tried searching for my answers with the limited capabilities of this forum (don't get me wrong, I like the forum, but the search sux), but rarely could find what I was looking for... It wasn't until someone actually included a link to another noob with the various ways to successfully search the forum, that I decided to register...
If we could use the google search link as a sticky, it may help... I believe that the google advanced search link is included in the FAQs, if not, it should be... but I have simply added it to my sig... My suggestion would be for those of us who tire from 'ignorant' posts to do likewise...
(turn back on crowd and leave soapbox for next speaker)
Google search sticky
debonairone said:
If we could use the google search link as a sticky, it may help... I believe that the google advanced search link is included in the FAQs, if not, it should be...
(turn back on crowd and leave soapbox for next speaker)
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It´s been there for a while
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=304582
By the way, check it, it´s been updated recently with good info for the WM6 adicts....
Read this!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=304959
Whatever. You know the seniors' stance is questionable when the entire purpose of setting up another private forum is to "get away from n00bs", and when you hit 100 posts you aren't even allowed to ask a simple, obscure question because it appeared in a topic like more than 6 months ago, and you're supposed to be "experienced" enough to know.
Everyone here has valid points, but it still doesn't solve the problem... It will not be an easy one to solve, as long as the search function is not blatantly put in front of noobs... As I said before, I lurked for a while before even registering because of the flaming posts for "stupid" questions... Need everyone be reminded that English is not the first language for everyone on this board...? That makes it a little harder for someone to properly search for the correct items and locate them... Then they are tasked with understanding what is written... And since it has become okay to use acronyms while typing, translators cannot keep up... Hell, it took me a couple of hours to figure out what RTFM meant...
Anyway, making things a bit easier for those with less knowledge cannot possibly be a wrong turn...
Hey guys (and girls),
Hey i'm a semi-n00b and don't know how to update the version of Windows Mobile on my AT&T Tilt. Anyone can tell me how?? Thanks
Tek12x
I tried searching the forum but couldn't find anything.
search and read before you get flamed
You have to install hard-spl (in the Kaiser ROM Development section) by pof/olipro. Once you do that, find the rom you want, download it, and run the RUU.
It involves 2 paperclips and a wall socket, if you would like to proceed let me know.
dyetheskin said:
search and read before you get flamed
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+1 well said....
Tek12x said:
Hey guys (and girls),
Hey i'm a semi-n00b and don't know how to update the version of Windows Mobile on my AT&T Tilt. Anyone can tell me how?? Thanks
Tek12x
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i'd think twice about a semi-noob...i think u've just upgraded urself to a full noob....
Tek12x said:
I tried searching the forum but couldn't find anything.
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LOL...u cant be serious
Tek12x said:
I tried searching the forum but couldn't find anything.
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rofl......no way!!!!
Tek12x said:
I tried searching the forum but couldn't find anything.
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Then you searched the wrong forum. This one has over 1.5 MILLION Posts.
Tek12x said:
I tried searching the forum but couldn't find anything.
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Maybe he searched for the text string "anything"???
Nope. I tried that and got...
Results 1 - 10 of about 65,400 from forum.xda-developers.com for "anything". (0.22 seconds)
Maybe he (or she) should try this sticky at the top of the Kaiser General page on searching...
Kaiser and other Searches
From noob to noob
I think maybe he meant an official microsoft upgrade, not a "cooked rom". Microsoft has not realeased an upgrade to Windows Mobile Pro 6.0 for the tilt if that is what you meant . The only 6.1's that people are talking about are custom roms.
i don't think denco most of us here rely on "oem" official upgrades .. none the less searching and reading than searching some more and than some more reading and than memorizing what you have read is a MUST >.. so happy reading.
What?
While getting chastized by someone who joined "our forum" less than a month ago is appealing to people, it was a simple question that I thought got misunderstood. So I decided to end the thread with a simple answer, because I'm sure people have other things to do. Apparently not. I have had my Tilt since 10/07 and know it inside and out mostly from reading this forum since 10/07, and have never felt the need for a cooked rom. Screw with the interface yes, rom no need. Interesting poll question though. Out of 681,176 members on this site how many have oem roms and how many have custom roms? I know the most vocal have custom roms ,but 600000 is a lot of people
denco7 said:
I think maybe he meant an official microsoft upgrade, not a "cooked rom". Microsoft has not realeased an upgrade to Windows Mobile Pro 6.0 for the tilt if that is what you meant . The only 6.1's that people are talking about are custom roms.
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Maybe, However I don't think a developers/enthusiasts forum is the best place to ask.
denco7 said:
While getting chastized by someone who joined "our forum" less than a month ago is appealing to people, it was a simple question that I thought got misunderstood. So I decided to end the thread with a simple answer, because I'm sure people have other things to do. Apparently not. I have had my Tilt since 10/07 and know it inside and out mostly from reading this forum since 10/07, and have never felt the need for a cooked rom. Screw with the interface yes, rom no need. Interesting poll question though. Out of 681,176 members on this site how many have oem roms and how many have custom roms? I know the most vocal have custom roms ,but 600000 is a lot of people
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So he feels a sense of belonging after a few weeks nothing wrong with that. Also a forum is not defined by its number of members, but its number of active members and the mission statement made by the Founders.
Mission Statement:
Welcome to xda-developers.com
This site is about certain PDA-phones, made by a firm called HTC in Taiwan. Their makers named them 'Wallaby', 'Himalaya', 'Blue Angel', 'Wizard' and 'TyTN', but almost nobody knows them by those names. The mobile provider O2 sells them under the brand-name 'XDA', and that's what we had in our hands first. They're also known as Qtek, MDA, SX-56, Hermes and many, many other names.
Since we develop software for it, we need information, and nobody seemed eager or ready to give us what we needed. So we 'reverse-engineered' the devices, found a lot of information, and shared it with the world. But as our site grew we realised that lots of ordinary users were also suffering from a lack of support. They started using the xda-developers forum to communicate and before long the forum was as much a user forum as it was a developer forum.
We hope that you will enjoy this site and find it as useful as we do. We encourage you to donate or otherwise support this site. Of course absolutely all proceeds from donations will benefit this community.
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To all the "feel-good" and "Rambo" flamers of noobs....all I can say is shame on you.
You make people feel as welcome as a boil on one's ass.
Get a life all of you. This is not about "SEARCH" all the time. If you have the time to give a shmarmy reply, then you have the time to be helpful. If not, then perhaps you should just ignore requests for help for those that "GASP" don't "search"....OH MY GOODNESS!!!
I shake my head with disbelief at the overt hostility to simple questions.
Are you guys always like this??? Don't you get smacked every now and then? You need to....
MACkjam said:
To all the "feel-good" and "Rambo" flamers of noobs....all I can say is shame on you.
You make people feel as welcome as a boil on one's ass.
Get a life all of you. This is not about "SEARCH" all the time. If you have the time to give a shmarmy reply, then you have the time to be helpful. If not, then perhaps you should just ignore requests for help for those that "GASP" don't "search"....OH MY GOODNESS!!!
I shake my head with disbelief at the overt hostility to simple questions.
Are you guys always like this??? Don't you get smacked every now and then? You need to....
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Totally agree. No one wants thread jumping or serial threaders or how do I turn on my phone? But it seemed like a simple question and the " noob " got totally flamed for it. Jimmy, you pointed out that maybe a developers/enthusiast site is not the place for simple questions, but then you go and point out the mission statement to me that says that "as our site grew we realized that lots of ordinary users were also suffering from lack of support". " and before long the forum was as much a user forum as it was a developers forum." A bit of a contradiction , which is it a snotty developers forum, like Jimmy suggests in the first half of his post ( I believe there already is a section of this forum for development and hacking ideas that is off limits to the common folk), or a users forum like the mission statement suggests in the second half of his post? I can live with either one.
denco7 said:
Totally agree. No one wants thread jumping or serial threaders or how do I turn on my phone? But it seemed like a simple question and the " noob " got totally flamed for it. Jimmy, you pointed out that maybe a developers/enthusiast site is not the place for simple questions, but then you go and point out the mission statement to me that says that "as our site grew we realized that lots of ordinary users were also suffering from lack of support". " and before long the forum was as much a user forum as it was a developers forum." A bit of a contradiction , which is it a snotty developers forum, like Jimmy suggests in the first half of his post ( I believe there already is a section of this forum for development and hacking ideas that is off limits to the common folk), or a users forum like the mission statement suggests in the second half of his post? I can live with either one.
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So you're telling me that having the inability to search is perfectly acceptable?
Google is arguably the best search engine around, and XDA uses it for site searches. Do you go to Google's home page, and then without typing anything in the search box, just give up?
It ultimately comes down to the rules of the forum; one of which included searching before creating threads. If someone cannot follow a few simple rules, then they have bigger issues then not knowing how to install a ROM on their phone.
MACkjam said:
This is not about "SEARCH" all the time. If you have the time to give a shmarmy reply, then you have the time to be helpful. If not, then perhaps you should just ignore requests for help for those that "GASP" don't "search"....OH MY GOODNESS!!!
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well...if the OP..not necessarily this one but all others too...if they have the time to post this question which may have been posted and asked several million times...then they have the time to search and find out for themselves..thats why the search button is there..
MACkjam said:
Don't you get smacked every now and then? You need to....
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Those that have tried have never been back for a second attempt. Of that, you can be sure.
NotATreoFan said:
So you're telling me that having the inability to search is perfectly acceptable?
Google is arguably the best search engine around, and XDA uses it for site searches. Do you go to Google's home page, and then without typing anything in the search box, just give up?
It ultimately comes down to the rules of the forum; one of which included searching before creating threads. If someone cannot follow a few simple rules, then they have bigger issues then not knowing how to install a ROM on their phone.
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My problem is not with reminding people to search,some of my answers to posts have also included gentle reminders to search followed by helpful ( I hope ) answers. My problem is with flaming people before clarifying the question. I "did" a forum search on an MS upgrade for 6.0 on a TILT before I decided to speak up and found nothing pertaining to the tilt. " How do you install Windows Mobile 6.1 on a Tilt? " " There is no 6.1 yet. " How hard is that? I have been programming for 33 yrs, I started out on a key punch terminal and then fed hundreds of punch cards into a reel to reel magnetic tape " processor " the size of most people's living rooms. My first in a long line of PDAs and smart phones, was an Apple Newton. I may be an idiot, but not from lack of experience. Exactly when did people get so full of themselves. But this is not " my " forum so I guess I should just butt out.
MACkjam said:
To all the "feel-good" and "Rambo" flamers of noobs....all I can say is shame on you.
You make people feel as welcome as a boil on one's ass.
Get a life all of you. This is not about "SEARCH" all the time. If you have the time to give a shmarmy reply, then you have the time to be helpful. If not, then perhaps you should just ignore requests for help for those that "GASP" don't "search"....OH MY GOODNESS!!!
I shake my head with disbelief at the overt hostility to simple questions.
Are you guys always like this??? Don't you get smacked every now and then? You need to....
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Click to collapse
Shame on me? Shame on you sir. This forum is filled with very usefull and important information. People just need to look for it. If we allow every Tom, ****, and Bob, to post threads willy-nilly without remand or maintaining some flow. The forum become deluted with crap, the information will be impossible to find. And our key smart people will leave. Then we might as well change the Topic of this forum to "Talking about the OC."
The Mods have said their piece on this, I personally have been following their wishes. I recommend everyone else does too.
denco7 said:
Totally agree. No one wants thread jumping or serial threaders or how do I turn on my phone? But it seemed like a simple question and the " noob " got totally flamed for it. Jimmy, you pointed out that maybe a developers/enthusiast site is not the place for simple questions, but then you go and point out the mission statement to me that says that "as our site grew we realized that lots of ordinary users were also suffering from lack of support". " and before long the forum was as much a user forum as it was a developers forum." A bit of a contradiction , which is it a snotty developers forum, like Jimmy suggests in the first half of his post ( I believe there already is a section of this forum for development and hacking ideas that is off limits to the common folk), or a users forum like the mission statement suggests in the second half of his post? I can live with either one.
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Maybe I should have been more clear. I know this is a Users Forum. Given the Typical Popular Topics I might say "Power User." Still The Mission Statement put forth by the Founders says users forum, not Free Technical Support Forum. Giving someone some Support and doing the researchfor them without thanks at two totally separate things. You need to learn to have a little thicker skin. I didn't say Snotty Developers Forum.
Fine you know what, you want to be an ass about all this, since I appear to be the only one of this opinion. That opinion of use "search" first, and start a new thread as a last resort. Here you go then....
Tek12x said:
Hey guys (and girls),
Hey i'm a semi-n00b and don't know how to update the version of Windows Mobile on my AT&T Tilt. Anyone can tell me how?? Thanks
Tek12x
I tried searching the forum but couldn't find anything.
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Its Really Quite Easy. Place HardSPL on your device. Heres the thread for it. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=334679
Then look through here to find a Windows Mobile 6.1 Based Custom ROM.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=378
If you are looking for the Offical Windows Mobile 6.1 from Microsoft, I'm not sure. Maybe you should check their website. http://www.microsoft.com
This is a request to all uses and moderators.
I would like to see three things.
1) Sticky's/Announcements in Kaiser General to the FAQ/GWENI/ETC. Currently these are listed in ROM development and not intuitive for a new user to find.
2) A guide for NOOBZ - while the above are invaluable resources, they don't address very basic issues. Things like:
How do I use activesync to install a CAB?
How do I do a basic registry edit
Where can I look for good software for x, y, and z
What does ROM, CID, SIM, XML mean...in general a Glossary
other basic tasks/information
I don't have the bandwidth to create such a guide right now, but if someone would like to volunteer, particularly a user who has gone through a noob to more experienced level using this site and is aware of the issues and pitfalls. It would be much appreciated...
3) A forum section for Noobz... As we have seen many posts as of late with titles like "I am a noob" , "Help me...","What software is good?",etc.
I think having this forum there would attract these posts better while appease the larger community from having to entertain these even in the general forum. Which, as some have stated should be a forum for questions not releated to the other 3, and not as a place for spoonfeeding.
If you think any of these 3 suggestions is a good idea, please post your support and or ideas.
thanks
Agree, sounds like a good idea.
My other suggestion would be to migrate to mediawiki as it just works nicer and the wiki may be developed more and be easier for noobies to get through!
good idea .. but i bet there will still be stupid posts by users who just wana be spoon fed.
thesire said:
good idea .. but i bet there will still be stupid posts by users who just wana be spoon fed.
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TITLE
Im a noob and need help
MESSAGE
You mentioned "spoon fed" how do you do this? can you show me. Is it a .cab and if so how do i install.
Thank you and please don't flame me
thesire said:
good idea .. but i bet there will still be stupid posts by users who just wana be spoon fed.
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I agree.
However many of the "senior" or more educated members of the forum seem to get quite upset at these "noob" and/or redundant posts.
There are three ways to handle a post like this:
1) Ignore it
2) Flame it
3) Respond in a helpful manner
Ignoring it works, and it is something ALL OF US NEED TO DO MORE. Remember, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all. (The Internet is encroaching more and more into the realm of real life...it has been shown more than once that bullying someone on line can have legal consequences in real life.). However, ignoring posts won't make them go away either, as there will be more since nothing is being done to educate the user or point future users in the right direction.
Flaming it serves no one any good. Stupid users won't learn, and if flaming makes you feel better, just remember you are taking up just as much (or more) of the forum resources and wasting just as much time flaming a worthless or uneducated post. Remember, fighting on the Internet is like competing in the special olympics. Even if you win, you are still retarded (no offense meant to the special olympics, or mentally challenged individuals...I have just always found this statement funny...and true).
Responding in a helpful manner should be the way to go if you choose not to ignore it. But, a helpful manner does not mean spoon feeding. Remember, "Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime." Proactive responses such as sticky's and announcments do the most to this effect.
As a "forum" in the classical sense, this should be a place for thought and discussion. However, it is also a gathering place for the masses. The leaders of the society should strive to educate and elucidate. However this can't be done on an individual level for every single post.
No man is an island either and to be part of the greater continent that is XDA-DEVELOPERS they need to have a modicum of intellect insofar that they know how to navigate an internet site.
I would feel better knowing that we have made ALL the resources available to the masses. This way we don't need to feel bad about ignoring any posts that we deem are ignorant.
I'm sure you have all heard the old saying about the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results....
Rather than attempt to dispel "NOOB" queries by means such as WIKIs,FAQs and the like which clearly have proven futile, it would make more sense to come up with a method of allowing such queries in a manner that doesn't encroach on the sense of ownership of the forum that seems to prevail amongst the senior members.
bengalih said:
This is a request to all uses and moderators.
I would like to see three things.
1) Sticky's/Announcements in Kaiser General to the FAQ/GWENI/ETC. Currently these are listed in ROM development and not intuitive for a new user to find.
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As stated to you before but I'm stating so that more people can see it, I completely agree with this.
2) A guide for NOOBZ - while the above are invaluable resources, they don't address very basic issues. Things like:
How do I use activesync to install a CAB?
How do I do a basic registry edit
Where can I look for good software for x, y, and z
What does ROM, CID, SIM, XML mean...in general a Glossary
other basic tasks/information
I don't have the bandwidth to create such a guide right now, but if someone would like to volunteer, particularly a user who has gone through a noob to more experienced level using this site and is aware of the issues and pitfalls. It would be much appreciated...
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Also as you know, I have gone from newb to somewhat experienced almost solely through this site and I'll work on the bold part above this week and weekend. Here is my 1st attempt at it though.
boomermax said:
I'm sure you have all heard the old saying about the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results....
Rather than attempt to dispel "NOOB" queries by means such as WIKIs,FAQs and the like which clearly have proven futile, it would make more sense to come up with a method of allowing such queries in a manner that doesn't encroach on the sense of ownership of the forum that seems to prevail amongst the senior members.
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I'm not sure what the point of stating this is?
We have a new idea...the noob forum. This is in addition to refining the current methods to possibly make them more effective.
What would your method be?
I also don't feel that the senior's assume a sense of ownership. Except to the effect that without them there would be no resources and thus this site wouldn't exist and thus be visited by noobz. I think the sense is more of outrage or incredulity the same as any member of a community would have when it accumulates members who have no concept of how to function in that society.
Don't you think that some people in your community might get a little offput if they had some native tribe move in and walk around naked? Performed drum circles at 2am every night? Dump on the lawns?
It is about community upkeep, and you don't have to be a senior to do it. In fact, some seniors may be counter productive. It is about being knowledgeable of your surroundings and willing to learn the rules to properly assimilate.
i love ur writing style bengalih ur posts are always so perfectly composed
I agree as well
I am not new to the forum because I have been lurking in the shadows for a while and have not posted anything as of yet but I have to totally agree with this request as I think that it is a great idea.I know that it would help me out a lot and feel that it would help others out as well.
I also just wanted to post this private message I got from a user:
(empahsis added by me)
Hello I'm [name removed] and I will be the first to say that I am new to all of this but I was reading a post and u had suggested that a "noobie Forum" might be a good idea and I would have to agree.
I have just gotten an AT&T Tilt and I have spent hours on top of hours reading in the forums here and I have to say that a lot of it is very complicated for someone like me who doesn't understand ROMs and Flashing and things like that.
I have read a lot of the post and to be honest I have had several questions that I could not find anwsers too after searching and have been terrified to post my question because of the negitivity and hostility that I have read.
The problem that I am having is that I am not understanding a lot of what is being written and am not sure what I should put on my phone or how to do it correctly.I am not stupid,ignorant,nor have I not taken the time to read and search things on this forum.
I am college educated and fairly intelligent but I am not tech savy or computer savy for that matter and I don't understand a lot of what is being said.I will admit that my phone is smarter than I am but I would like to learn how to use it more effecentally and get the most out of my phone and what it can do for me.
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I hope you senior/educated members take to heart comments like this and realize that although this isn't rocket science there are still many educated individuals that don't know where to start. Even after a user RTFM (which this user apparently did some), there is obviously a gap to get them to the next level.
We have to accept that this has become a place for the PPC masses and we can either ignore the pleas for help or do something to assist in the long term.
On the flip-side to you noobs... don't get over your head. You don't buy a junker or a tuner if you're not a mechanic, and you don't try to paint the Mona Lisa if you're just a dilletante. If you are in a position where you can't understand things even after hours of research you may want to get your feet wet in something else (like a basic computer class), or you can always buy from Apple . This stuff isn't for everyone, and unfortunately nothing we do will make it so.
bengalih said:
I'm not sure what the point of stating this is?
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First off I began writing the previously posted comment prior to your well spoken post above.
The ownership I spoke of was reference to the few senior members that feel a need to reply to every single post by redundantly pointing out the redundancy of others.
My suggestion was to avoid the attempt of "pre-answering" all possible questions. It can't be done.
Nor is it reasonable to expect all knowledge to exist on the same level. Take the analogy of communities that you spoke of (which I agreed with up until you equated elemental levels of knowledge with pooping on one's lawn).
Within all successful communities you have an acknowledged and agreed upon division of areas of education.
In other words 1st graders don't sit in the same classroom as upperclassmates...
...nor do upperclassmates refuse to graduate.
I think the idea of a noob forum sounds good, and I believe it would help separate many of the redundant posts in the general forum.......but at the same time, if those posts are separated so as not to bother the more experienced people from having to sort through them, then who is going to help them? Would we have noobs answering other noobs? I'm afraid we would end up with the blind leading the blind.
By that same token, if the experienced users decided to venture into the noob forum to help them....then separating the posts for the sake of not having to wade through them seems somewhat counter-productive.
Don't take any of this as a negative. I think putting together a collection of noob resources is a good idea, and creating a noob forum may be as well......I'm just trying to weigh the benefits with the potential problems it could cause.
I am probley the top flamer (IMO) and sometimes I flame and sometimes not. Mostly I flame people who you can honestly see from the question that they didn't look for anything. If I can find the answer in 5 minutes and you claim to have spent days, then I know you didn't search. As to the person that has read and still doesn't understand, please post. Most of the time those people come out and explain things in their question so that you can tell they actually have an understanding.
Asking a specific question about a step or a method in an educated manor is far better then say, I Are noob, what software should I install, oh and can someone literally hold my hand while I flash this rom on my phone.
If you're willing to educate yourself then it shows.
I know that I was nervous and a little scared before I flashed for the first time. I was on edge the whole time, but I knew I read over the instructions over and over.. I have read them again and again and I just don't see where the mistakes happen.
I will provide support if you need it, but you don't need it if the answer is right there, 3 posts down or if it's a well known thing.
Oh I wonder if you could keep that forum from registering in the search function.
boomermax said:
First off I began writing the previously posted comment prior to your well spoken post above.
The ownership I spoke of was reference to the few senior members that feel a need to reply to every single post by redundantly pointing out the redundancy of others.
My suggestion was to avoid the attempt of "pre-answering" all possible questions. It can't be done.
Nor is it reasonable to expect all knowledge to exist on the same level. Take the analogy of communities that you spoke of (which I agreed with up until you equated elemental levels of knowledge with pooping on one's lawn).
Within all successful communities you have an acknowledged and agreed upon division of areas of education.
In other words 1st graders don't sit in the same classroom as upperclassmates...
...nor do upperclassmates refuse to graduate.
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Agreed. Although I stand by my "pooping" comment . The fact is that all of those levels of knowledge may be perfectly acceptable in some communities, but totally unacceptable in others (ok ok, granted not too many poop on their lawns...but not that far off.).
I think you are right that we can't answer all questions, but we can try. I think if we can teach the fundamentals, and then a lower classman learns those he should be able to synthesize most of the remaining elements.
For what they can't extract from their learnings, they can ask a question on. After all, most of the info passed around here isn't new, it is synthesized and rehashed in different forms applicable to a particular issue.
I don't think we can get rid of the basic posts, the "I am a noob posts", the didn't search for this first post. But I do think putting them in another question would help.
I know it has been suggested before, and I don't know if it is possible (I have been on other forums that can do this....) But it would be great if we could limit posting to the noob forum for the first 2 weeks of someone's membership.
Valtamr said:
I think the idea of a noob forum sounds good, and I believe it would help separate many of the redundant posts in the general forum.......but at the same time, if those posts are separated so as not to bother the more experienced people from having to sort through them, then who is going to help them? ....
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I address this here
ChumleyEX said:
I am probley the top flamer (IMO) and sometimes I flame and sometimes not. Mostly I flame people who you can honestly see from the question that they didn't look for anything. ....
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I think you are far from the worst Chumley...but as a genuine question:
Why do you feel the need to flame? Why not just ignore the post?
I am not stating this rhetorically to be preachy. I am asking to figure out how we can eliminate it.
Personally I sometimes want to flame back a flamer just for contributing something just as worthless as the original post, but I refrain.
I mean, if someone came into the ROM Development forum and posted "I am a NOOB, how can I please to update my phone!!!" I would expect and even welcome the flames there. If we have to terrify the users to know their place then that's ok...the second part of that though is we NEED TO GIVE THEM A PLACE TO PUT THEM IN! That's why I think a noob forum might help.
bengalih said:
But it would be great if we could limit posting to the noob forum for the first 2 weeks of someone's membership.
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But isn't that really the point that's being refused to be acknowledged?
This is the noob forum. Senior members who have already acquired the "upper" levels of knowledge are begrudgingly noticing that not every day is a day of discovery like before and are being faced with the choice of becoming teachers or finding other sources of higher knowledge.
boomermax said:
But isn't that really the point that's being refused to be acknowledged?
This is the noob forum. Senior members who have already acquired the "upper" levels of knowledge are begrudgingly noticing that not every day is a day of discovery like before and are being faced with the choice of becoming teachers or finding other sources of higher knowledge.
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I'm not sure of your statement of "This is the noob forum"
Are you suggesting that either the "General" forum or XDA-developers in general is now for noobz?
I would whole-heartedly disagree with the latter. As for the former, General is not meant for noobz, it is meant for anything that doesn't fit in the other 3 forums (e.g, not about ROM development, not about an accessory, not about a specific piece of software).
I don't want to keep stressing the name of the site is "XDA-Developers." Just because it may be bombarded by power users or noobz, shouldn't diminish the function of the site. If the attitude starts to become "This is where noobz should be" then I think you are going to see some real problems. The least of which is that if you piss off the seniors, they WILL go somewhere else and this site will become meaningless.
well I suppose it comes from many things. As a child I was bullied and now I find myself in a situation of assumed power. Or, I feel that because spent the time to educate myself, through all the grulling threads, I have the right to do it. And like a drill Sergent , I will not be nice about teaching you to fish.
Man I gotta work on my rep.
New to pocket pc's so sry for the n00be questions. Have ATT tilt through ATT with CPU Q 7201 & ROM ver: 1.62.502.0. First I am wondering how I can tell what version of win mobile I have? I want to upg to ver 6.1. I have Windows Mobile 6.1 For HTC Touch (U.S. Cellular) package ... would that work on my phone and with my carrier? Also wondering how I can save and restore current ROM version and where I can find good ROM packages (for my phone) for novices?
Thank you
Welcome,
Do a bit of research read stickys in ROM section, maybe even a bit of the wiki...
And never flash a\ROM meant for another device....
All info is here on XDA.
Peac3,
stylez.
There are volumes of information and most of it is confusing since this is my first experience with pocket PC's. I have done hours of research and cant get a strait answer. Thank god for forums. But thanks for at least answering one question. I thought for some reason that the HTC touch was for my device but I guess the touch is different than the tilt.
Another issue with the searches is that it comes up with nothing productive regarding my specific questions. Below are my search strings:
tilt rom upgrade "6.1" title only
tilt rom windows mobile "6.1" entire post
tilt rom "6.1" entire post
Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.
When I go to the ATT site they say that there is no 6.1 update available. Where can I get the update for my specific phone and carrier? Does the carrier even matter?
EDIT: Think I found the update at one of the logical places: HTC's site.
Hi,
Sorry for the bad reception. People around here seem to think their time is too valuable to help a newcomer. Bad comments invited, my skin is thick. They must have forgotten what it is like to be new. And I have found that the search function on this site is often less than helpful.
You can find your OS Version by going to Settings and clicking on Device Information. It should be on the first line.
It very much matters that you use the right ROM as the others won't work. OEM ROMS are picky about where they get installed.
You are on the right track at the HTC site. There used to be a link to it from ATT but I couldn't find it the other day.
Good luck.
TracyD said:
Hi,
Sorry for the bad reception. People around here seem to think their time is too valuable to help a newcomer. Bad comments invited, my skin is thick. They must have forgotten what it is like to be new. And I have found that the search function on this site is often less than helpful.
You can find your OS Version by going to Settings and clicking on Device Information. It should be on the first line.
It very much matters that you use the right ROM as the others won't work. OEM ROMS are picky about where they get installed.
You are on the right track at the HTC site. There used to be a link to it from ATT but I couldn't find it the other day.
Good luck.
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Despite the chastising of senior members by our learned member with ten whole posts. What new members need to realize, is that this is a developers forum first and foremost. It is a library of knowledge accrued by the study of these phones and the hard work of it's members.
As I said, it is a library for all to access, not an HTC help line. As with all libraries, you do not walk up to the librarian and say " give me all you have on world history " the response you will get is, " go to the world history section and search it out yourself " Much like newer members here are told to go to the wiki.
When seniors suggest that you search, it is an attempt to train you to be productive , contributing members of the this community. If that's all you want is an HTC 24hr helpline, there are plenty of those other places online.
If you want access to the most knowledgeable people in the WinMo world , then do your homework, read the Wiki, do your searches, and then respectfully ask for help with concise well thought out questions, and you will find this one of the most friendly sharing sites on the net.
That being said, Welcome and here is the latest rom update for the Tilt
http://www.htc.com/us/supportdownloadlist.aspx?p_id=67&act=sd&cat=all
I agree with denco7. I researched for 3 days before I got the courage to try to unlock and flash my Tilt. Even then, it took me 5 hours. My MDA only took about 10 minutes. There is a reason for the wikis and stickies: they should be read first. If you don't find answers to your questions there or don't understand, ask for help and give a detailed description of what you have tried. Don't expect everything to just be handed to you.
i agree with what the senior members are saying...
also, i would like to add that the initial process (that can last for several DAYS) of doing the reading and searching to try to understand the basics of your device has been a thoroughly incredible learning experience. it will take time and some effort on your part but think of it as an investment...these devices may be simple to USE but CUSTOMIZATION steps like ROM upgrading deserve your full attention and understanding, particularly because of the likelihood of "bricking" your very expensive device.
at the very least, the wiki should be THE place to go to, to build your concepts, read about the various tips and tricks and customization possibilities and what not.
all the same, the builtin search does suck but nearly everybody recommends using google to perform your search...simply append "xda" in the keywords of your search and google will give you remarkably good results.
TitusCicero said:
There are volumes of information and most of it is confusing since this is my first experience with pocket PC's. I have done hours of research and cant get a strait answer. Thank god for forums. But thanks for at least answering one question. I thought for some reason that the HTC touch was for my device but I guess the touch is different than the tilt.
Another issue with the searches is that it comes up with nothing productive regarding my specific questions. Below are my search strings:
tilt rom upgrade "6.1" title only
tilt rom windows mobile "6.1" entire post
tilt rom "6.1" entire post
Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.
When I go to the ATT site they say that there is no 6.1 update available. Where can I get the update for my specific phone and carrier? Does the carrier even matter?
EDIT: Think I found the update at one of the logical places: HTC's site.
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Just a side note.... There are 2 search buttons on the forums. One is for the Thread ( which it appears to be the one you were using ) and the other is a google forum search. The one on the very top of the screen is the one you want. Or do as everyone else has suggested and use google but add xda to the search string. I like how Denco put it........ this is a knowledgebase ( or a library if you will ). A librarian can help point you in the right direction or even teach you the dewey decimal system, but they will never hand pick all of the relative books for you. Learn the system and you will love it here. Goodluck!!!!
Now you've gone and hurt my feelings. I may not post again for another year. Oh well. Honestly, I support the need for folks to search, but I think you guys are a little extreme. It is my thought that forums like this are places where people go to get help, some need more than others. You are welcome to not respond or to respond helpfully, however, what value is a negative post but to raise people's hackles. Fortunately for you poor spirited folks, I have decided to ignore your rudeness and continue to lurk looking for tidibits of fun info.
As far as being a senior member goes, so? I have been lurking on forums since back in the 300 baud modem and bulletin board days. I just might be senior enough for my purposes. I help when I can and try to enjoy the commentary. I just don't like to see such rudeness as I often see here. Perhaps some "seniors" need to grow up a little and not take this stuff so seriously.
well........if you're senior enough, then you should know better than to start a thread asking a question that is answered countless times, which is an extreme no-no here. because of that we will now have to display extreme hatred towards you......its in the rules somewhere.
here is an excellent post from the most good looking xda-mod (i've heard rumors) describing what xda-devs is about
What is XDA-Devs
TracyD said:
Now you've gone and hurt my feelings. I may not post again for another year. Oh well. Honestly, I support the need for folks to search, but I think you guys are a little extreme. It is my thought that forums like this are places where people go to get help, some need more than others. You are welcome to not respond or to respond helpfully, however, what value is a negative post but to raise people's hackles. Fortunately for you poor spirited folks, I have decided to ignore your rudeness and continue to lurk looking for tidibits of fun info.
As far as being a senior member goes, so? I have been lurking on forums since back in the 300 baud modem and bulletin board days. I just might be senior enough for my purposes. I help when I can and try to enjoy the commentary. I just don't like to see such rudeness as I often see here. Perhaps some "seniors" need to grow up a little and not take this stuff so seriously.
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lol, infact your response was the only rude one, stating about senior members and there attitude towards noobs after my first post to which was giving direction and spoken very softly without a "go search" etc, infact i even welcomed him\her to the forum & directed towards the most relevant threads including saying not to brick there device.
Welll in future i shall just post "Use the search!!!"
In response to how many years online i imagine we all been about for along time online but not to say "we" know it all about the subject matter in hand.
"Any way the book you are after is in the second isle, if you need any more assistance there is a computer in the corner that can help find what you need"