Related
So, some of you may have received an email requesting you fill out a short survey for a chance to be included in the beta test for the upcoming AT&T Atrix firmware update. I implore you to read this message and at least consider it.
I write this as a request to the members of the XDA community to be respectful to Motorola. Frankly, I was absolutely embarrassed to be a member of this community with how many of you handled the last beta test. Posting confidential information, breaking the NDA, posting restricted tools on the Motorola forum itself? It doesn't matter what "morals" you decide you want to follow, take it somewhere else please. That kind of behavior does nothing but HINDER our cause. If I was Motorola, and I looked at how my end users reacted to something they agreed to uphold, I wouldn't want to give them anything further. Play by the rules. You don't have to agree with them, and if you don't like them, you're free to protest, but do so within the CURRENT rules and laws. File a complaint, write a petition, picket outside Motorola's HQ, but please:
Don't break NDA.
Don't post restricted files.
Don't yell and scream and swear at Motorola.
You do nothing but make us look like fools when you do these things.
This thread is not meant to open discussion. This thread is not meant to start a flame war. This thread is my personal request to the members of the XDA community as one of the few developers actually working on the platform right now: Please be civil, and please be mature.
Thank you.
-Ririal (aka Fenrir)
I see where you're coming from, but I reserve the right to yell and cuss at whomever I want. ;-)
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
Ririal said:
So, some of you may have received an email requesting you fill out a short survey for a chance to be included in the beta test for the upcoming AT&T Atrix firmware update. I implore you to read this message and at least consider it.
I write this as a request to the members of the XDA community to be respectful to Motorola. Frankly, I was absolutely embarrassed to be a member of this community with how many of you handled the last beta test. Posting confidential information, breaking the NDA, posting restricted tools on the Motorola forum itself? It doesn't matter what "morals" you decide you want to follow, take it somewhere else please. That kind of behavior does nothing but HINDER our cause. If I was Motorola, and I looked at how my end users reacted to something they agreed to uphold, I wouldn't want to give them anything further. Play by the rules. You don't have to agree with them, and if you don't like them, you're free to protest, but do so within the CURRENT rules and laws. File a complaint, write a petition, picket outside Motorola's HQ, but please:
Don't break NDA.
Don't post restricted files.
Don't yell and scream and swear at Motorola.
You do nothing but make us look like fools when you do these things.
This thread is not meant to open discussion. This thread is not meant to start a flame war. This thread is my personal request to the members of the XDA community as one of the few developers actually working on the platform right now: Please be civil, and please be mature.
Thank you.
-Ririal (aka Fenrir)
(p.s. to moderators, if you feel I'm out of line, you may remove this thread at any point.)
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Thanks so much for posting this... i felt the exact same way
+100 (to Ririal's OP, not the clown who posted right before me)
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
basically, dont bring xda into it.
mafiaboy01 said:
Well I'm not worried about moto doing anything to me, they'll come after me as fast as there getting the bootloader unlocked.
Bite me
Sent from Motorola Atrix on TELUS.
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Its people like you that ruin the hard work others put into this and other issues we may have with companies. He didnt mention anything about them coming after one of us or any of us for that matter he simply asked us to not break NDA (something that is Legally speaking far more dangerous than you take for granted) and also to not make our community (that is to say the developer community) look like complete loser's. who would honestly want to help someone who is constantly screaming and cursing at them? I know i wouldn't and I say that from COMPLETE Experience seeing as thats EXACTLY what I do on a daily basis and I constantly make people do the harder work if they are yelling at me. so why not just get your head out of your butt and act a bit more mature about the OP and maybe be more respectful.
To the moderators,
I apologize as I know this is attacking a specific person and that is not usually something that is allowed. But people like this need to realize just the potential they hold for possibly taking down something as great as these forums. If you feel that you need to remove my post please do so, but I ask that in this case you may let me know so that I realize just how strict on these rules you may be.
caderon said:
Its people like you that ruin the hard work others put into this and other issues we may have with companies. He didnt mention anything about them coming after one of us or any of us for that matter he simply asked us to not break NDA (something that is Legally speaking far more dangerous than you take for granted) and also to not make our community (that is to say the developer community) look like complete loser's. who would honestly want to help someone who is constantly screaming and cursing at them? I know i wouldn't and I say that from COMPLETE Experience seeing as thats EXACTLY what I do on a daily basis and I constantly make people do the harder work if they are yelling at me. so why not just get your head out of your butt and act a bit more mature about the OP and maybe be more respectful.
To the moderators,
I apologize as I know this is attacking a specific person and that is not usually something that is allowed. But people like this need to realize just the potential they hold for possibly taking down something as great as these forums. If you feel that you need to remove my post please do so, but I ask that in this case you may let me know so that I realize just how strict on these rules you may be.
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Happy ?
Sent from Motorola Atrix on TELUS.
+1 fully agree with OP. Posting elements of the update will get poster in trouble and could get XDA in trouble. Also behave like a civilized person yelling and screaming as a child got you nothing and it'll do nothing now... just my 2 cents
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
I have to laugh a little at this post. While I think the post has the best of intentions, this entire community is in the "business" of violating user agreements --the development sub-forum, in particular. Now, before you say that by rooting devices, you are only voiding your warranty, Motorola (Apple, Samsung, or just about any other vendor) would claim that XDA is violating their intellectual property. This is why people receive the C&D letters when sbf's and the like are posted.
Fortunately, the Library of Congress has explicitly ruled that these activities essentially fall under the fair use clauses of copyright law (http://www.copyright.gov/fedreg/2010/75fr43825.pdf). While this has yet to be thoroughly tested in the courts, as long as xda's activities remain non-commercial, Motorola would likely lose a legal battle trying to close down such activities. So, their only substantial alternative is to void your warranty.
I think comments like "Play by the rules. You don't have to agree with them, and if you don't like them, you're free to protest, but do so within the CURRENT rules and laws. File a complaint, write a petition, picket outside Motorola's HQ" are a bit of the pot calling the kettle black. Why can't you make those exact arguments when it comes to rooting your device?
These activities are legal, you are only voiding the contract you made with Motorola when you post items covered under an NDA. This is not illegal. This group of developers dedicates itself to violating contracts with Motorola and AT&T left and right. Why does this especially cross a line?
I do agree that people don't need to get nasty and go off on rants, but don't confuse rooting and related activities with something illegal.
decoyd said:
I have to laugh a little at this post. While I think the post has the best of intentions, this entire community is in the "business" of violating user agreements --the development sub-forum, in particular. Now, before you say that by rooting devices, you are only voiding your warranty, Motorola (Apple, Samsung, or just about any other vendor) would claim that XDA is violating their intellectual property. This is why people receive the C&D letters when sbf's and the like are posted.
Fortunately, the Library of Congress has explicitly ruled that these activities essentially fall under the fair use clauses of copyright law (http://www.copyright.gov/fedreg/2010/75fr43825.pdf). While this has yet to be thoroughly tested in the courts, as long as xda's activities remain non-commercial, Motorola would likely lose a legal battle trying to close down such activities. So, their only substantial alternative is to void your warranty.
I think comments like "Play by the rules. You don't have to agree with them, and if you don't like them, you're free to protest, but do so within the CURRENT rules and laws. File a complaint, write a petition, picket outside Motorola's HQ" are a bit of the pot calling the kettle black. Why can't you make those exact arguments when it comes to rooting your device?
These activities are legal, you are only voiding the contract you made with Motorola when you post items covered under an NDA. This is not illegal. This group of developers dedicates itself to violating contracts with Motorola and AT&T left and right. Why does this especially cross a line?
I do agree that people don't need to get nasty and go off on rants, but don't confuse rooting and related activities with something illegal.
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You're not understanding what he's saying.
He's telling people who sign up for Moto's beta test, to actually follow the NDA (non-disclosure agreement), and not post the update.zip files that we are supplied as beta testers. It is against the agreement we make with Moto when we sign up and accept the beta test update. That has NOTHING to do with rooting your phone or modifying your files on your phone.
Example: I get the update, immediately pull the .zip off my internal SD card and throw it on Megaupload and post the link for everyone to have.
Doing that basically tells Motorola "F you and your beta testing", and shows that we have no intentions of working with them. All that will do is stop them from trying to work with us (and even if you don't think they are because they're not giving us the golden keys to their phone, they are still trying to work with us as a consumer in the fullest capacity they can as a commercial company).
We can have the situation where we get zero testing to updates until they're released, or even worse ZERO updates because Motorola no longer feels the consumer has any desire to work with them, or we can have a synergistic relationship going to the extent that both parties can get at least some part of their way.
Having them unlock the bootloader for us is honestly IMO never going to happen. NO phone company is doing this, so it's silly to think they will or that we deserve it. Devs are the ones who unlock or bypass bootloaders and all our Android phones; devs will find a way, a 3rd party will find a way, but Motorola has zero interest in doing that for us and to think otherwise is foolish. So what they DO give us, may help other people to figure it out and crack it themselves. But we need things to work both ways, with Moto giving a little room for us to update our software and continue on with Android's progress.
To correct some misunderstandings: You have the right to jailbreak your device, but you do not have the right to posses or share someones intellectual property without permission, or break NDA.
Agree and disagree with op. Agree because we should not be breaking such an agreement. Disagree because such an agreement should not exist in the first place.
Sent from my Atrix using XDA Premium App.
dLo GSR said:
It is against the agreement we make with Moto when we sign up and accept the beta test update. That has NOTHING to do with rooting your phone or modifying your files on your phone.
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(1) You violate (or at least I do) agreements with Motorola all the time. Why is this time different?
(2) This has EVERYTHING to do with root. The whole reason people do this is to keep phones unlocked/rooted.
dLo GSR said:
Doing that basically tells Motorola "F you and your beta testing", and shows that we have no intentions of working with them.
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(3) False. If we were given a way to obtain root or have an unlocked bootloader through official channels, you can make this argument. As the situation is quite the opposite, I don't see how this is a valid conclusion.
dLo GSR said:
All that will do is stop them from trying to work with us
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(4) I'm honestly baffled by this statement.
Saying that these activities is going to push Motorola to provide "ZERO" updates is ludicrous. Could it encourage them to not offer betas before release? Maybe, but I doubt it. They need feedback.
In the end, I just reiterate: Why draw the line at posting files from betas? SBFs are posted all the time. We violate our agreements all the time, so what's so different this time?
knigitz said:
To correct some misunderstandings: You have the right to jailbreak your device, but you do not have the right to posses or share someones intellectual property without permission, or break NDA.
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False. The point is that jailbreaking is legal, and if you read the LoC ruling I posted, you'll see that the related activities of distributing their software (e.g. sbf's) is NOT a violation of their IP. Just like using clips from a copyrighted movie in a documentary without permission is not a violation of copyright. NDAs are no different than the EULAs which are violated left and right. What's the big difference between everyone happily violating their user agreements with Motorola and AT&T but somehow the NDA is now sacrosanct.
Added links: http://www.copyright.gov/1201/docs/2006_statement.html and http://www.copyright.gov/fedreg/2006/71fr68472.html
I'd tend to agree with the OP ..
Stuff will leak, and the fact is we're all looking to get the next new thing / enhancement, but we should all demonstrate a little discretion if not for any other reason than to be practical ... The more blatant (some of the stuff on the mot forum bordered on ridiculous) the more likely the vendors will shift even more effort and resources to locking things down.
All imho, which when I last checked we're all entitled to
decoyd said:
(1) You violate (or at least I do) agreements with Motorola all the time. Why is this time different?
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Because this one isn't an implicit I-opened-the-product-box, you signed up as a beta tester, which is not a given privilege as a consumer. This is an OPT-IN test opportunity. Probably 98% of the people with the Atrix do not participate in this beta test. Like you said, we're allowed to root/jailbreak our phones technically because of the LoC ruling. That does not make you immune to breaking an NDA. Don't be ignorant. I have seen people sued and prosecuted for breaking NDAs, especially in my line of work.
I got the beta update, and I tried it, gave my feedback, and went back to 1.2.6. When someone figured out how to do root and they released the update ALL OF FIVE DAYS LATER, I updated. I do not believe that releasing the update to the masses in any way helped to re-gain root access for 4.1.57.
decoyd said:
(2) This has EVERYTHING to do with root. The whole reason people do this is to keep phones unlocked/rooted.
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While that may be true, and rooting in itself is not wrong, the process to get it by releasing a company's IP is. Geohot lost on this one with Sony. If you want the damn beta update so bad, then SIGN UP FOR IT. If you're so committed to finding root and unlocking our bootloader, THEN PARTICIPIATE in the beta. None of that requires you to break the NDA.
decoyd said:
(3) False. If we were given a way to obtain root or have an unlocked bootloader through official channels, you can make this argument. As the situation is quite the opposite, I don't see how this is a valid conclusion.
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You're right. Biting the hand that feeds you is a way better solution to getting what you want.
decoyd said:
(4) I'm honestly baffled by this statement.
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What, you don't understand common logic?
decoyd said:
Saying that these activities is going to push Motorola to provide "ZERO" updates is ludicrous. Could it encourage them to not offer betas before release? Maybe, but I doubt it. They need feedback.
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They don't need feedback from us. They can easily throw together a small focus group or do in-house testing or carrier testing that doesn't include us. Most companies work that way. We were fortunate to have Moto decide to include the general public.
decoyd said:
In the end, I just reiterate: Why draw the line at posting files from betas? SBFs are posted all the time. We violate our agreements all the time, so what's so different this time?
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You're opting in for this test. If you can't handle the rules and regulations, then don't do it and just wait and whine until the actual update is released. I can't remember anyone complaining of signing up for the Beta and not getting in, so if you want the damn file, then sign up and get to work.
And thank you for ignoring about 50% of my post.
decoyd said:
I have to laugh a little at this post. While I think the post has the best of intentions, this entire community is in the "business" of violating user agreements --the development sub-forum, in particular. Now, before you say that by rooting devices, you are only voiding your warranty, Motorola (Apple, Samsung, or just about any other vendor) would claim that XDA is violating their intellectual property. This is why people receive the C&D letters when sbf's and the like are posted.
Fortunately, the Library of Congress has explicitly ruled that these activities essentially fall under the fair use clauses of copyright law (http://www.copyright.gov/fedreg/2010/75fr43825.pdf). While this has yet to be thoroughly tested in the courts, as long as xda's activities remain non-commercial, Motorola would likely lose a legal battle trying to close down such activities. So, their only substantial alternative is to void your warranty.
I think comments like "Play by the rules. You don't have to agree with them, and if you don't like them, you're free to protest, but do so within the CURRENT rules and laws. File a complaint, write a petition, picket outside Motorola's HQ" are a bit of the pot calling the kettle black. Why can't you make those exact arguments when it comes to rooting your device?
These activities are legal, you are only voiding the contract you made with Motorola when you post items covered under an NDA. This is not illegal. This group of developers dedicates itself to violating contracts with Motorola and AT&T left and right. Why does this especially cross a line?
I do agree that people don't need to get nasty and go off on rants, but don't confuse rooting and related activities with something illegal.
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And I have to laugh at how you didn't even read what the post was about.
This is about the beta test, nothing more, nothing less. The entirety of the test is enclosed under an NDA, which regardless of your personal or moral standards, is a legally binding contract and should not be broken. Last time there was a beta test, users willingly and knowingly broke the NDA and posted the confidential information all over the forums. Most of those threads were shut down immediately. When I root my device, I'm not breaking a signed agreement that says I won't root my device. It's not even close to the same thing, you're overgeneralizing the subject. I'm talking about a very specific thing here, not android hacking in general.
Also, an NDA is a legally binding contract, and it IS illegal to break. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-disclosure_agreement
dLo GSR said:
Having them unlock the bootloader for us is honestly IMO never going to happen. NO phone company is doing this, so it's silly to think they will or that we deserve it. Devs are the ones who unlock or bypass bootloaders and all our Android phones; devs will find a way, a 3rd party will find a way, but Motorola has zero interest in doing that for us and to think otherwise is foolish. So what they DO give us, may help other people to figure it out and crack it themselves. But we need things to work both ways, with Moto giving a little room for us to update our software and continue on with Android's progress.
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Then why is HTC so responsive to 3rd party devs? (Excluding Thunderbolt, wtf is with that) I have Cognition on my Captivate, and CM7 on my Inspire. So forgive me if I decide to disagree with you that it's not silly to want an unlocked bootloader.
Especially on my captivate. The thing is complete crap without Cognition. Yet I was able to easily install ROM manager and Cognition and slap it on there. It's only Motorola right now that are big enough pricks to do this to us. Sony gave their users a way to install ROMs. Now it's only us locked in the cage.
dLo GSR said:
If you can't handle the rules and regulations, then don't do it
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How do you justify rooting your phone? You are violating their rules and regulations. Nobody is forcing you to buy their product.
NDA's are pretty serious business. Just because Motorola doesn't sue you doesn't change this fact. Lifetime friends of mine that work at Microsoft and Google can't tell me what they are working on specifically. I've gotten used to responses like "working on Google Maps" and not bothering them for more details because I respect their NDAs.
Ririal said:
And I have to laugh at how you didn't even read what the post was about.
This is about the beta test, nothing more, nothing less. The entirety of the test is enclosed under an NDA, which regardless of your personal or moral standards, is a legally binding contract and should not be broken. Last time there was a beta test, users willingly and knowingly broke the NDA and posted the confidential information all over the forums. Most of those threads were shut down immediately. When I root my device, I'm not breaking a signed agreement that says I won't root my device. It's not even close to the same thing, you're overgeneralizing the subject. I'm talking about a very specific thing here, not android hacking in general.
Also, an NDA is a legally binding contract, and it IS illegal to break. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-disclosure_agreement
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I hope no one gets mad, but this > < discussion should be here and made sticky for AT LEAST the droid x for further development and hacking. This should be only for educational purposes! All in all though, I feel that this topic would be more quickly busted or confirmed on this site. Please post ANY findings and/or results here. As you can see I have posted to this site the locations of ALL meid an pesn of the druid 2 global phone, but was unsuccessful at using these scripts to do anything to this phone. Thanks ppl and let's keep this thread going for the lifespan of the phone. All credit given whet credit is due, as you can see from the post. No stealing or hijacking intended. This is all I could find on Moto devices. Also have a Devour to test this on with a lil more skilled guidance.
Again? Really?
ESN changing is against the law in the country of which these forums are hosted. I'm going to assume this will be deleted before you even read my post.
There is no legal reason to 'repair' your MEID. Please move back to Howard Forums where they still seem to allow this type of discussion.
Just read forum rules.
I have just read the forum rules and it says nothing about not discussing maid/est repair. This is for educational purposes. And, if like me, changing these numbers is legal if you own both the donor (which in my case is broken) and the clone, and are not trying to sell the donor or clone, which would be invasion of privacy and fraud, then it is legal. I own both phones. My touch pro wont boot anymore and I own my droid 2 global, which is the one I want to write theses numbers to. I am not selling either. So why not learn more about these devices. I should be able to do what I want with my property. Take a look here, I googled this just for you and people like you. -> http://www.fcc.gov/guides/cell-phone-fraud <- And as can see clearly I am doing nothing illegal. I wish people would stop saying that it is illegal. It scares people who just heard it somewhere else without doing their own research first. On with this discussion please mods.
I still don't understand what this is. I seen this posted on Howard, and was interested by the topic. I tried Googling but I came up short with any clear definitions.
narsciso said:
I still don't understand what this is. I seen this posted on Howard, and was interested by the topic. I tried Googling but I came up short with any clear definitions.
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The meid/esn is the phone-specific "serial" number that Verizon uses to identify your phone. If a phone is reported as lost or stolen to Verizon, the meid/esn gets blacklisted so that the phone cannot be activated (so if someone steals your phone or finds it on the street, they can't put it on their account).
This thread describes how to alter the meid/esn to something else, so it can be fixed/unblacklisted.
solcam said:
I have just read the forum rules and it says nothing about not discussing maid/est repair. This is for educational purposes. And, if like me, changing these numbers is legal if you own both the donor (which in my case is broken) and the clone, and are not trying to sell the donor or clone, which would be invasion of privacy and fraud, then it is legal. I own both phones. My touch pro wont boot anymore and I own my droid 2 global, which is the one I want to write theses numbers to. I am not selling either. So why not learn more about these devices. I should be able to do what I want with my property. Take a look here, I googled this just for you and people like you. -> http://www.fcc.gov/guides/cell-phone-fraud <- And as can see clearly I am doing nothing illegal. I wish people would stop saying that it is illegal. It scares people who just heard it somewhere else without doing their own research first. On with this discussion please mods.
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Well I'm glad you answered your own question then =)
What Is Cell Phone Cloning Fraud?
Every cell phone is supposed to have a unique factory-set electronic serial number (ESN) and telephone number (MIN). A cloned cell phone is one that has been reprogrammed to transmit the ESN and MIN belonging to another (legitimate) cell phone. Unscrupulous people can obtain valid ESN/MIN combinations by illegally monitoring the radio wave transmissions from the cell phones of legitimate subscribers. After cloning, both the legitimate and the fraudulent cell phones have the same ESN/MIN combination and cellular systems cannot distinguish the cloned cell phone from the legitimate one. The legitimate phone user then gets billed for the cloned phone’s calls. Call your carrier if you think you have been a victim of cloning fraud.
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What you would be doing is not illegal, but the information used to do your 'legal' activity could be used to do something illegal. Yes it comes down to "ZOMG Some guy posted a bomb recipe, that's illegal!!!"... well no, but whoever hosts that bomb making recipe could be held as an accomplice for future bombings using said recipe.
Which is why MEID/ESN changing is usually instantly locked on most if not all US forum sites, including this one.
A little help
Honestly I thought this thread would be closed a while back because every time i looked into this before threads would magically dissappear. But its still here so here is some help. The esn meid is only half the problem, the other half is the A-key, this key verifies your phone every time you make a phone call, wihout jt you will get a message that tells you your phone cannot be verified. After you manage to get that you need a username and password in order to achieve 3g access. That aside the reason your hexs dont match is because its ram and he meid will get moved around randomly after boot. Basically this means that you will need to find all addresses before your next reboot or the keys might move again. So not only is the hexes different from phone to phone it is also different from boot to boot. Another thing you are having issues wih is the meid returnin after each reboot. This only happens when you miss an meid. I have found that there are certain locations that have memory locks and will nkt let you map it. If you use the default settings for scanning you will miss meid locations. What you have to do is scan and after each map decrease the number smaller and closer to the memory lock until you find the exact location for thsat memory lock. Repeat for each lock until you have exact locations for every valid memory location. Then dump those locations and use a hex editor to calculate where each meid location is. Use another tool to directly modify each meid location to all 0s. After all locations for both esn and meid are 0ed then you can reboot. Oh forgot to mention one more thing he esn and meid are reverse inverted. Meaning an esn will be A00000123456 will be 56 34 12 00 00 A0 same with esn.
And yes i was being purposly vague. If you cant fill in the blanks you really shouldnt be atempting to do this. You can easily permanently brick your phone.
HacDan said:
Well I'm glad you answered your own question then =)
What you would be doing is not illegal, but the information used to do your 'legal' activity could be used to do something illegal. Yes it comes down to "ZOMG Some guy posted a bomb recipe, that's illegal!!!"... well no, but whoever hosts that bomb making recipe could be held as an accomplice for future bombings using said recipe.
Which is why MEID/ESN changing is usually instantly locked on most if not all US forum sites, including this one.
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That isn't true, the hosting party can not be brought in as an accomplice you need to go get your facts straight. If the hosting agent said "Hey you should blow up a building with this bomb" then you are right. If they say "We are a library of knowledge" they can not.
It's all about intent. For this purpose it is about information, and information is power. There are a LOT more people trying to FIX their phones then trying to steal. There are many other valid and lawful uses as well, such as switching these verizon wireless phones to cricket or some other prepaid service (which is legal if you buy one of their pre-paid phones and use it as a donor phone).
People, please take your head out of your butt on this issue. It is not illegal, it is what you do with the information that makes it legal/illegal. If you are a crook you will get caught and do 5 years for screwing around with phones (moron). If you are not a crook and are looking to xfer service to a prepay or fix your phone then it's perfectly lawful.
ok here is my issue with this also. I am on metro and I have the eris flashed by them to talk and text. I received a droid a855 which I see fully flashed to metro everywhere for sale people talking about them anything of the sort. But I have flashed the prl and all info for metro but will they turn it on. NOPE they will not add the clean esn from my droid to their network at all. So I have been searching for how to do this also as I will scrap my eris for use as a testing and wifi only device and put its info on the droid and then put the eris sticker on it also. And the eris will be blank. But do you think I could get this to work right nope. I have found 4 total meid/esn locations and changed them with a few programs and also made sure they are right. and reflashed the file to the phone and nothing at all changed. I need help please. And to the legality of this I called a guy on craigslist and asked him to put my esn in metros data base and he said I have to have a account and he would change the esn and meid to match my metro phone that is on now?????? he had posted as to adding the esn not changing. And he is not the only one here doing this. I have skills in computers and phones but im just lost on the droid not taking the writes. Ok thanks and PM me if needed.
Preach! Free speech dies another slow death... Instead of commenting, help someone with a cellular issue... Pay it forward = mankind advances by helping one another
HacDan said:
Well I'm glad you answered your own question then =)
What you would be doing is not illegal, but the information used to do your 'legal' activity could be used to do something illegal. Yes it comes down to "ZOMG Some guy posted a bomb recipe, that's illegal!!!"... well no, but whoever hosts that bomb making recipe could be held as an accomplice for future bombings using said recipe.
Which is why MEID/ESN changing is usually instantly locked on most if not all US forum sites, including this one.
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This is very help fully I wish I knew this when I got my phone because it was 9pm est and I was not a authorized user on my parents account and my grandmother is on the otherwise of the country and I had to wait a whole day to activate the phone and if I would of known about this I would of transferred my Omnia's meid over
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
Sorry, but this stinks of legal technicalities.
Rule #9 is used in situations like these, and so I'll have to close the thread.
9. Don't get us in trouble.
Don't post copyrighted materials or do other things that will obviously lead to legal trouble. If you wouldn't do it on your own homepage, you probably don't want to do it here either. This does not mean we agree with everything the software piracy lobby try to impose on us, it simply means you cannot break any laws here, since we'll end up dealing with legal hassle caused by you. Please use common sense: respect the forum, its users, and those that write great code.
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There is an ota update of 142.00mb, Im trying to download it and I keep getting error. it reboots into recovery and says 25% then it boots into main phone, then it says install update was unsuccessful. Any ideas? I did have my phone rooted it before, the method I used was threw the app store.
the_professor. said:
There is an ota update of 142.00mb, Im trying to download it and I keep getting error. it reboots into recovery and says 25% then it boots into main phone, then it says install update was unsuccessful. Any ideas? I did have my phone rooted it before, the method I used was threw the app store.
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Go here...http://forum.xda-developers.com/att-galaxy-s5/general/g900and3tong3keeprootota-zip-t2862299
Read trouble shooting
I dont want to root it again, i wanted to unroot it, i seem to be having alot of problems since I rooted .
the_professor. said:
I dont want to root it again, i wanted to unroot it, i seem to be having alot of problems since I rooted .
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You don't have to root, that's why I said read the trouble shooting in the op.
what is op? sorry
the_professor. said:
what is op? sorry
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Opening post or sometimes Original poster.
I've been getting a notification about an update that I repeatedly decline. About 15 min ago it was forced to my phone but failed. What I mean by forced is I had no option to decline/remind me later. Now my biggest issue with that is how do they know or why do they think I'm not using my phone to handle important business? That is what aggravated me the most. Assuming I want the update, and attempting to force it on my phone. I'm pissed for real for the first time with AT&T.
Assassyn said:
I've been getting a notification about an update that I repeatedly decline. About 15 min ago it was forced to my phone but failed. What I mean by forced is I had no option to decline/remind me later. Now my biggest issue with that is how do they know or why do they think I'm not using my phone to handle important business? That is what aggravated me the most. Assuming I want the update, and attempting to force it on my phone. I'm pissed for real for the first time with AT&T.
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Short answer - they don't care. Their interest in maintaining residual control over your property is more important to them than whatever you want to do with your property.
Assassyn said:
I've been getting a notification about an update that I repeatedly decline. About 15 min ago it was forced to my phone but failed. What I mean by forced is I had no option to decline/remind me later. Now my biggest issue with that is how do they know or why do they think I'm not using my phone to handle important business? That is what aggravated me the most. Assuming I want the update, and attempting to force it on my phone. I'm pissed for real for the first time with AT&T.
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Not to defend any carrier but my guess is they felt it was an important enough update and had to be pushed to the phone after the repeated attempts were declined. I agree that this is not a proper practice and perhaps a call to executive services filing a complaint might help in the long run. But as the other 99% of owners that are not rooted or modified will probably just accept the update, they have little concern for the rooted community. One would hope that it was detecting a period of low activity?
Kamchak said:
Short answer - they don't care. Their interest in maintaining residual control over your property is more important to them than whatever you want to do with your property.
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Ah..the old "my property" argument....well what rights you have to things you purchase are subjective. In most communities a homeowner cannot park a vehicle on his own grass, nor keep unregistered vehicles in his driveway unless covered, has to maintain the property...and thousands of other laws and ordinances telling them exactly what they can and cannot do to their owned "property." Cell phones are a communication device thus governed by communication laws allowing the carriers to tell you what you can and cannot do to your "property" for security and communication regulated reasons. The only way around those regulations forcing updates to you (to a certain degree) is to buy an unlocked device from independent sales outlets. Using a certain carrier will then add their restrictions to you in the TOS that you sign.
KennyG123 said:
Ah..the old "my property" argument....well what rights you have to things you purchase are subjective. In most communities a homeowner cannot park a vehicle on his own grass, nor keep unregistered vehicles in his driveway unless covered, has to maintain the property...and thousands of other laws and ordinances telling them exactly what they can and cannot do to their owned "property." Cell phones are a communication device thus governed by communication laws allowing the carriers to tell you what you can and cannot do to your "property" for security and communication regulated reasons. The only way around those regulations forcing updates to you (to a certain degree) is to buy an unlocked device from independent sales outlets. Using a certain carrier will then add their restrictions to you in the TOS that you sign.
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Although I understand what you are saying, and (being a homeowner) understand the realities of your post, I am uncertain as to the purpose in making the answer. Although my answer may be an old argument, that doesn't make it an erroneous argument. Their consideration for our interests begins and ends with our wallets. They couldn't care less about what we want to do with our communication equipment, whether bought from a certain carrier or an independent sales outlet. I'd venture to guess that their TOS isn't any different, regardless from where you obtain the property.
As far as there not being a way around their control, isn't that why this site exists? I thought what xda-developers was here for was to help people get the most out of their devices by providing a collaborative environment where people could share their experiences of creative use and exploration of said property without restriction by other entities?
Kamchak said:
Although I understand what you are saying, and (being a homeowner) understand the realities of your post, I am uncertain as to the purpose in making the answer. Although my answer may be an old argument, that doesn't make it an erroneous argument. Their consideration for our interests begins and ends with our wallets. They couldn't care less about what we want to do with our communication equipment, whether bought from a certain carrier or an independent sales outlet. I'd venture to guess that their TOS isn't any different, regardless from where you obtain the property.
As far as there not being a way around their control, isn't that why this site exists? I thought what xda-developers was here for was to help people get the most out of their devices by providing a collaborative environment where people could share their experiences of creative use and exploration of said property without restriction by other entities?
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What you say is true...I was just trying to clarify the entitlement I see way too often regarding what people feel are their rights to do what they want with their "property." As a communication device it is not fully anyone's property until deactivated.
This site does exist to help members do more with their devices than intended by the carrier..however that comes with ramifications like voiding the warranty or violating TOS. There are many posts made by people thrown off of their carrier for tethering huge amounts of data. As for a way around their control...there are many methods available on this site to avoid updates. At the first sign of an unwanted updated the OP should have sought those methods out. I know...it was a surprise that it got forced on the device (though failing) without consent. I am sure there is some clause in the TOS allowing that. So I apologize if it seemed my post was directed at you..it was just to clarify this "property" idea that I see spouted way too often around this site. :good:
KennyG123 said:
Not to defend any carrier but my guess is they felt it was an important enough update and had to be pushed to the phone after the repeated attempts were declined. I agree that this is not a proper practice and perhaps a call to executive services filing a complaint might help in the long run. But as the other 99% of owners that are not rooted or modified will probably just accept the update, they have little concern for the rooted community. One would hope that it was detecting a period of low activity?
Ah..the old "my property" argument....well what rights you have to things you purchase are subjective. In most communities a homeowner cannot park a vehicle on his own grass, nor keep unregistered vehicles in his driveway unless covered, has to maintain the property...and thousands of other laws and ordinances telling them exactly what they can and cannot do to their owned "property." Cell phones are a communication device thus governed by communication laws allowing the carriers to tell you what you can and cannot do to your "property" for security and communication regulated reasons. The only way around those regulations forcing updates to you (to a certain degree) is to buy an unlocked device from independent sales outlets. Using a certain carrier will then add their restrictions to you in the TOS that you sign.
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I was able to get them to go away after freezing the updater apk file with Titanium BackUp. Haven't been bothered since. I think if it's that serious to where they need to force an update, they should at least tell us what the major concern is. Very likely that they won't but it's ok, I "fixed" it enough for my liking.
Assassyn said:
I was able to get them to go away after freezing the updater apk file with Titanium BackUp. Haven't been bothered since. I think if it's that serious to where they need to force an update, they should at least tell us what the major concern is. Very likely that they won't but it's ok, I "fixed" it enough for my liking.
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Yes! Thankfully there is no shortage of information on this site on how to prevent OTA's and the annoying nags.
KennyG123 said:
Yes! Thankfully there is no shortage of information on this site on how to prevent OTA's and the annoying nags.
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I take my annoying nag out to dinner a couple times a month. Oops don't tell her I said that or I'll be building another doghouse. ????
"You stay classy San Diego"
Sent from my G900A powered by XKRom GoldLimiTed.
I have been back and forth with both T-Mobile and Sony tech support about unlocking my Sony Xperia Z Model C6606 4.3 T-Mobile variant Build 10.4.C.0.814. When I entered the service code '*#* blah blah blah' it says unlock = No. Not possible. No beans. Sorry Charlie. No luck, no joy.
The following is a paraphrase of the exchanges with these two corporate giants, modified for brevity and the hope that the crushingly depressing outcome might be presented as slightly humorous.
I asked them, 'How do you update the system software when new releases are available?' They replied that there are 'special codes' that unlock the bootloader for the update. And I thought to myself, Really? Isn't that special.
I remarked that if it was possible for them to remotely upgrade the system software (read: kernel), then it is possible for them to remotely unlock the bootloader. The song and dance routine that followed was remarkable. In essence, they declined. Not possible. No beans. Sorry Charlie. No luck, no joy.
I said, if you won't unlock the bootloader now that we have established that you can, would you downgrade the system software to something where I can unlock the bootloader? Again, they declined and left me with nothing more than visions of 'special codes' dancing in my head. Not possible. No beans. Sorry Charlie. No luck, no joy.
My only question is, "Why not? Why on some and not on others?"
This is what you call company's politic, and people who work for it need to fallow this politic, even if its bad for consumer.
This world that we created for our self and we need to deal with it, just like with government.
There are codes for maintaining device(not only codes that you type on phone), that cellular companies get from phone manufactures to make their branded systems, just like their get bunch of other tools that help them doing this.
But its not like SIM-lock code and it cant be thrown around like peace of paper, because:
1) its can be used in bad way(hacking, unlocking etc)
2)it could be used by people that would sell that code to others and make money from it(illegally).
3) It breach of contract that you ACCEPTED buying that phone from t-mobile or as a free handset.
When you bought that phone you accepted agreement that you get with phone AND your operator, that clearly say that you can't mess with your phone system in any way that its said in contract and system it self, and you can use your phone as you get it.
Any modifications break terms of use, and you actually lost any rights to even ask support for help.
My point is that asking support for that code is actually really stupid, because their work doesnt include unlocking devices for modifications that user want to make(illegally looking from contract perspective), As far as device is not damaged or doesnt have problems, you actually have no reason write to them.
Its like going to car dealer where you bought car, and ask to remove engine because you want to put there new one... They totally dont care because this is not part of deal you made with them and its just nothing more than breaking regulations.
It is forum about modifications of phones, but we actually all make silent agreement that we KNOW that we can lost warranty and dont have rights for official support when we modify our phones. I think you forgot about that
Agreements have Caveats
Hi Akinaro,
Thank you for your reply. You are of course correct in what you have pointed out concerning contracts and agreements. It is something of which we all (well, most of us) are aware and accept as a matter of course. But as the title of this response indicates, these agreements are a two-way street.
You have made a number of false assumptions in your post. That's OK. Perhaps I wasn't clear and gave you the wrong impression. Let me start now by saying that dealing with customer and tech support on these issues was not 'stupid'. You are NOT correct in presuming or insinuating that I have forgotten anything about the nature of these agreements, that I have entered into any binding agreements in bad faith, that I have broken any binding agreements, that I were considering breaking any binding agreements or that I might encouraging others to break any binding agreements.
In this case, the phone in question is not subject to a warranty agreement, a purchase agreement or even a use agreement. It has been superseded in all aspects by another phone. It is fully and completely my property. However it does not maintain any monetary value, as the screen is broken and the cost of the repair exceeds the value of the device. It's only value is in re-purposing it or using it for R&D. In it's currently locked state, the potential for both is limited.
When dealing with both the OEM and the carrier's tech support departments, I enumerated all of the conditions detailed above. I informed them that my interests in unlocking the device were personal and developmental in nature. In this they're responses were sympathetic and even conciliatory. We ALL understood that there was no breach of contractual terms taking place. Their actions in dealing with me confirm this simple fact. Plus, it is in their collective best interests to support independent R&D, even on older devices, as I'm sure you are aware. The reasons are manifold and beyond the scope of this OP post.
I apologize if I was unclear: I never at any time asked that either of these entities reveal to me the confidential and proprietary codes that they use to flash locked phones. My point was simply that I knew that they existed; that they knew I knew; and that they could accomplish my request to flash my phone if they chose to do so. It is simply negotiating.
Both corporate entities have graciously met me half-way in my efforts to unlock the bootloader. T-Mobile reactivated the SIM for the express purpose of allowing the service call that disclosed the bootloader could NOT be unlocked by the normal software methods available to the user. They didn't have to do that and I am grateful. Sony has developed a comprehensive online method for determining and delivering unlock codes to their phones that can be unlocked in this manner. Again, I am grateful to them for going this far. But this is not the same thing as unlocking my phone. Both of them have the means and methods available to do so. It is their choice to do so or not to do so. That is why you should call and negotiate. The worst that can happen (if you haven't broken any contracts or voided your warranty) is that they will say no.
I am perfectly within my rights to be disappointed that I didn't accomplish my goal. Likewise, it is completely understandable for me to wonder why they haven't fully implemented a plan to unlock all 4.3 'Zs'. I can even complain about it if I want. But I would rather that people smarter than I offer up new tactics and strategies to try. I don't want to give up just yet.
Akinaro said:
This is what you call company's politic, and people who work for it need to fallow this politic, even if its bad for consumer.
This world that we created for our self and we need to deal with it, just like with government.
There are codes for maintaining device(not only codes that you type on phone), that cellular companies get from phone manufactures to make their branded systems, just like their get bunch of other tools that help them doing this.
But its not like SIM-lock code and it cant be thrown around like peace of paper, because:
1) its can be used in bad way(hacking, unlocking etc)
2)it could be used by people that would sell that code to others and make money from it(illegally).
3) It breach of contract that you ACCEPTED buying that phone from t-mobile or as a free handset.
When you bought that phone you accepted agreement that you get with phone AND your operator, that clearly say that you can't mess with your phone system in any way that its said in contract and system it self, and you can use your phone as you get it.
Any modifications break terms of use, and you actually lost any rights to even ask support for help.
My point is that asking support for that code is actually really stupid, because their work doesnt include unlocking devices for modifications that user want to make(illegally looking from contract perspective), As far as device is not damaged or doesnt have problems, you actually have no reason write to them.
Its like going to car dealer where you bought car, and ask to remove engine because you want to put there new one... They totally dont care because this is not part of deal you made with them and its just nothing more than breaking regulations.
It is forum about modifications of phones, but we actually all make silent agreement that we KNOW that we can lost warranty and dont have rights for official support when we modify our phones. I think you forgot about that
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Sorry, but my point is still valid.
You still asking support, that is made for helping with damaged/inoperative devices in way as guarantee say it, for unsupported access to device that is not part of ANY agreement that you accepted buying this phone.
People you talked with can be nice or not, can understand that its personal and for developing purpose. Its all doesnt matter because its company politic.
Even if I support full access to device that you bought(after all ITS YOURS) in other way I know that more than half of people that would see that they have access to it, they would start messing with it and then whine that their phones doesnt work.
In fact, actually damn good part of post on XDA is such whining of people that messed their phone and now they cry that it doesnt work and ask for help, and saddest part is that they never learn lesson from it so its never ending story.
So again, asking support for unlocking your phone, as far as its not SIM-lock, its useless and just silly.
You can ask technician from support if he could do this "on the side, out of records", but you would need +10 charisma for that if you dont know him, or some cash, that for most of time work. I actually loots of time just paid technician to make it on the side, especially when you dont need to wait few days for phone, few minutes, few hours and they fix/unlock your phone without a problem.
Or just find someone who would help you unlock it in different way... but XZ is just old and not "trendy" so no one care anymore and its hard to find anyone here.
OK Akinaro. That's enough with the ad hominem attacks. You have accused me of everything from trying to steal company secrets to unethical breaches of contractual agreements. All I did was try to negotiate some assistance and report on my progress.
Point 1. I am still a long term customer of my carrier. They encourage me to seek their help. So I don't care if you like it or not. What you characterize as abuse or illegal behavior, THEY characterize as completely acceptable.
Point 2. I am a consumer of the OEM's products. They encourage me to seek their help. So I don't care if you like it or not. What you characterize as abuse or illegal behavior, THEY characterize as completely acceptable.
Point 3. This is a development forum. My OP is within bounds and my responses to you have been civil. So I don't care if you like it or not. What you characterize as abuse or illegal behavior, THEY characterize as completely acceptable.
So far, you have accused me of everything from unethical acts and intentions to stupidity and whining. You haven't said anything of any real value. You haven't contributed any constructive ideas how I might get them to help. Nor have you been able to substantiate your wild accusations with anything that resemble facts or logic. So no, you haven't made a single valid point.
You realize that Im just writing obvious things? Because idea of asking official support for unlocking bootloader is just weird.
You can be mad that from your perspective my point is not valid.... because core of your question contain no fricking point at all.
You asked support for unlocking: They said they dont do this.
In your phone manual there is mention: "Any change or modification not expressly approved by Sony may void the user's authority to operate the equipment.", and I think access to bootloader just to have fun with kernel is part of that "modification"
There is about 1000 topic about bootloader on XDA, and they all mention the same thing: if it say no, its no. Simple.
So what you expect them to do? What you expect from XDA when you made this topic? All we can say is obvious thing that everyone know: ts not possible, especially with help of official support, that is not made for that.
Before you even bought your phone you should think and check your device, I always ask to turn phone on before buy it, its a matter of typing *#*#service#*#* to check it, its about 9sec to find bootloader section.
You can be mad at me, Sony or Obama, or anyone who is trendy right now, No one care. All what I write, is obvious things that everyone known.
Noob Friendly.
Hello again Akinaro,
While I am absolutely sure that you have a great deal of technical knowledge about phones (far more than I), it is a poor excuse for rude behavior, engaging in character assassination, making baseless assumptions or libelous accusations. A quick read through your post reveals a bias that is based entirely on a false perception and not the facts. So please allow me to address these directly.
You said, "You asked support for unlocking: They said they dont do this."
FACT: Some T-Mobile Xperia Z phone have a bootloader that IS unlockable (something of which you are well aware). The "*#*#service#*#*" service proves the point. Furthermore, they will supply you with a link to the OEM developers website that will unlock your bootloader while giving you detailed instructions on how to go about it. So NO! I said nothing of the sort.
You said, "In your phone manual there is mention: 'Any change or modification not expressly approved by Sony may void the user's authority to operate the equipment.'"
FACT: That's not what 'express approval' is, means or implies. Sony's assistance to developers in unlocking the bootloader of their devices disproves your unfounded assumptions. It is prima facie evidence of Sony's explicit approval. There are things that a developer can do to an unlocked phone that are either legal or illegal or acceptable and unacceptable. Examples:
1.) Modifying a phone's operating system for purposes such as changing the look and feel of the device, for automation or for the addition of certain desirable features found in other OS releases is (within certain bounds); Acceptable.
2.) Modifying the device to circumvent regulatory restrictions or carrier use agreements?; Not Acceptable.
My point to the OP was that they DO unlock SOME Xperia Z phones regardless of model; that they DO provide assistance in doing so; but that they CAN unlock them all and that they don't explain why the won't. My point is that there is an underlying factor that remains unexplained and I thought that an explanation was worth pursuing. DID YOU NOT GET THAT? I consider this question interesting and the answers murky at best. Why some and not all? Had I NOT asked them why and why not, that would have been stupid. Had I not sought clarification here at a forum that is dedicated to developers, that would have been stupid. Expecting that the OP would have been answered with rational discussion or friendly advice: OBVIOUSLY STUPID.
Alas, I am not mad at you for having your opinion no matter how misguided. I will ALSO refrain from calling you names or implying that, your position, your actions, or your opinions are 'stupid', 'pointless' or 'illegal'. If you want to discuss the topic, fine. Otherwise, please cut the crap. I'll cop to being ignorant. Ignorance can be cured. Stupidity, not so much.
Stupid is NOT trying to remedy ignorance by seeking answers. You don't like the OP? Then go read another. You want to just be hostile? It say a lot about you - not me.
Akinaro said:
You realize that Im just writing obvious things? Because idea of asking official support for unlocking bootloader is just weird.
You can be mad that from your perspective my point is not valid.... because core of your question contain no fricking point at all.
You asked support for unlocking: They said they dont do this.
In your phone manual there is mention: "Any change or modification not expressly approved by Sony may void the user's authority to operate the equipment.", and I think access to bootloader just to have fun with kernel is part of that "modification"
There is about 1000 topic about bootloader on XDA, and they all mention the same thing: if it say no, its no. Simple.
So what you expect them to do? What you expect from XDA when you made this topic? All we can say is obvious thing that everyone know: ts not possible, especially with help of official support, that is not made for that.
Before you even bought your phone you should think and check your device, I always ask to turn phone on before buy it, its a matter of typing *#*#service#*#* to check it, its about 9sec to find bootloader section.
You can be mad at me, Sony or Obama, or anyone who is trendy right now, No one care. All what I write, is obvious things that everyone known.
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Thread closed at the request of the OP.
I just made a petition on change.org to get AT&T to let us unlock the bootloader of the AT&T Galaxy S5. If it reaches enough signatures, we might just convince them to do it!
Link: https://www.change.org/p/at-t-bootl...m_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition
BrianSamsungTab said:
I just made a petition on change.org to get AT&T to let us unlock the bootloader of the AT&T Galaxy S5. If it reaches enough signatures, we might just convince them to do it!
Link: https://www.change.org/p/at-t-bootl...m_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition
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lol this has been going on for lg g4 g5 and moany other devices its not gonna happen as i was told when i signed if u want a rootable twrpable device dont bye us domestic carriers and u have to look at tmobiles
this has been said time and time again
it dont matter how many sigs u get att will never allow for it to be unlocked this isnt a law were writing into congress.
im sorry to be an ass about but its the cold hard truth
do u want to know what lg has done about the g4s petition they locked them down even tighter.
which is making people go to more extremes to root and normally ends up in harder bricks.
again not being an ass just the truth
Boycott these companies and let them know its because of these restrictions. Make them lose money, and they'll worry about our complaints.
My ATT Galaxy S5 is over 3 yrs old now and I think is beyond the warranty so I don't care about tripping the Knox count (or whatever they call it) and lose my warranty. I just want to be able to unlock the bootloader even if it wuld mean losing my warranty... I tried searching here in XDA about procedures on how to do it, but couldn't find it. I found this thread instead. Could anybody please point me in the right direction...
BTW, to the OP, I feel you bro.... though I honestly don't think AT&T would be swayed by this. I've been with them for over a decade now and is now planning to buy my next phone from a different company. They've just gotten worse (more locked-down) over the years!
An internet petition is pointless - it can be ignored, it can be easily dismissed with a single response and left at that.
but you organize a social media drive to where it will hit them hardest. you plaster their facebook pages or twitter accounts, you clog their support pages in full public view so that others know this is an issue for a vocal minority and inspire them to desire the same, you find the accounts of c-level people and you annoy them, cajole them, exhort them - then maybe, just maybe, you'll have a chance to pull this off.
you've got to make this a problem for someone important enough to actually get it done because I guarantee you some low level social media peon isn't going to bother anyone that important by kicking this up the chain to them no matter how many tweets or facebook comments they receive. but you kick up enough of a ruckus there first and maybe you'll get enough people involved who will say "hey, me too" and then you take those voices directly to the top.
you're going to need a reasoned and well thought-out excuse, though, and that's what should start here. not a pointless petition, but talking points, technical expertise and a whole lot of responses to the inevitable objections that will arise.
so, why do we want the bootloader unlocked? it's obvious to us, but come on and spell it out again anyway. if you want your voice to be heard then first you've got to find it