My Tab S2 T719Y has started acting really weird recently. For some reason, it would stall trying to run any ROM that I flash to it.
I'm not certain if it's a LineageOS problem or something is dead in the tablet.
I can flash (the few available still maintained) ROMs offered on the forums for my specific model.
The flash would go fine and everything seems to boot fine. I can install GApps and all. Not a single error mesage.
Then it gets to the new device setup wizard and then it stalls with a black screen. Or in the case of having GApps installed, I can choose a language and press Start at the start of the setup wizard, but I end up in a "Just a min.." bootloop and the tablet is unable to do anything except go back to the language select startup page.
The tablet seems to be running fine beneath. The touch buttons light up and haptic feedback still works. By double tapping the Back button I can get the system UI to show that it's switching between apps, but leads to another blank screen. By pulling down from the top, I can even pull open the notifications bar and quick settings. And I'm able to switch them on an off fine.
I've even tried flashing old ROMs that I know for a fact would run fine, but those end up in the same dead screen.
I've tried wiping and formatting everything in the tablet: Dalvik, System, Data, Storage, Cache ... all to no avail.
What is going on here? I'm reading in some Reddit threads that there might be some data access problem?
How do I resolve this?
Restore the stock ROM using odin and 4-file firmware and check again. If it is OK, go ahead
Thank you! That miraculously revived the tablet back from the dead.
Game-R said:
Thank you! That miraculously revived the tablet back from the dead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where can I find 4-file firmware.? I tried using Odin to go back to stock 7.0, but the tablet after reboot stops at the Samsung logo. Tried flashing several times and same thing. Help!
Related
Hi guys,
I think I finally managed to brick my phone. Everything was working perfectly fine, until today when decided to try GB's Steam kernel.
So a little background first, to make things quicker:
- I was able to open download and recovery mode before, even after doing a odin3 one click restore twice.
- I've tried a Cognition and moved to DarkyYtt3r. Went from 7.0.1 to 7.5 to 7.8 to 8.0.1, no issues.
- Changed the kernel and modem several times. The last one I tried was glitterball's uc/ov stable (no charging death).
- Current set up before this mess:
-- ROM: DarkyYtter v8.0.1 > http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=890429
-- Kernel: gb-reorient-fixed-ocuv-f-cwm.zip > http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=887315
-- Modem: TLJL3 I think.
Everything working beautifully.
Today I saw this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=903238 ... gb's steam kernel. since no one was having major issues, I made a backup of my current rom using CWNand decided to install the kernel using SGS Kernel flasher, according to instructions.
Cool. I've flashed kernels before a few times. No big deal. And I figured, I'm able to get into Recovery or worst case scenario into download mode. I flashed the kernel, reboot, got into Steam's recovery. Looked around. Activated a couple of tweaks although I don't remember which ones.
Rebooted and this is where the issues began. I got the "intro" window you get with i9000 roms (keyboard intro, syncing, etc). A lot of apps were force closing, including facebook, twitter, rom manager, ADW Launcher, etc.
Ok, so I rebooted to Steam recovery and deleted the cache. Went back and the same problem. At least I was able to boot the system.
I said, oh well, let's go back to our backup. Booted Steam's recovery, and tried to recover from the last backup.
It worked for one boot. Not sure what I did, I don't remember, but after trying to boot again, the phone displays the AT&T screen, the GT-I900 screen and then the Galaxy S screen. I then feel the force close vibration, and the screen goes black. I can touch the softkeys and they blink, but I feel the FC vibration every 10 or 15 seconds.
Somewhere along the line something bad happened.... but here is what's bothering me. I cannot get back into download or recovery mode anymore. Been there all day trying to make it work with no luck at all.
So, more importantly, somewhere along the line, between rom flashes, or something, I lost the ability to get into recovery or download mode. I've heard that I900 roms have different button combos, but nothing works
I'll buy a few resistor packs tomorrow, and some cables just in case. I'm afraid that I won't be able to boot into download mode this way either.
also, adb is not detecting the phone. tried both windows and linux. if I could only get it even for one second so I can send a adb reboot download... but no
Do you guys have any ideas?
Thanks!
cumanzor said:
Hi guys,
I think I finally managed to brick my phone. Everything was working perfectly fine, until today when decided to try GB's Steam kernel.
So a little background first, to make things quicker:
- I was able to open download and recovery mode before, even after doing a odin3 one click restore twice.
- I've tried a Cognition and moved to DarkyYtt3r. Went from 7.0.1 to 7.5 to 7.8 to 8.0.1, no issues.
- Changed the kernel and modem several times. The last one I tried was glitterball's uc/ov stable (no charging death).
- Current set up before this mess:
-- ROM: DarkyYtter v8.0.1 > http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=890429
-- Kernel: gb-reorient-fixed-ocuv-f-cwm.zip > http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=887315
-- Modem: TLJL3 I think.
Everything working beautifully.
Today I saw this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=903238 ... gb's steam kernel. since no one was having major issues, I made a backup of my current rom using CWNand decided to install the kernel using SGS Kernel flasher, according to instructions.
Cool. I've flashed kernels before a few times. No big deal. And I figured, I'm able to get into Recovery or worst case scenario into download mode. I flashed the kernel, reboot, got into Steam's recovery. Looked around. Activated a couple of tweaks although I don't remember which ones.
Rebooted and this is where the issues began. I got the "intro" window you get with i9000 roms (keyboard intro, syncing, etc). A lot of apps were force closing, including facebook, twitter, rom manager, ADW Launcher, etc.
Ok, so I rebooted to Steam recovery and deleted the cache. Went back and the same problem. At least I was able to boot the system.
I said, oh well, let's go back to our backup. Booted Steam's recovery, and tried to recover from the last backup.
It worked for one boot. Not sure what I did, I don't remember, but after trying to boot again, the phone displays the AT&T screen, the GT-I900 screen and then the Galaxy S screen. I then feel the force close vibration, and the screen goes black. I can touch the softkeys and they blink, but I feel the FC vibration every 10 or 15 seconds.
Somewhere along the line something bad happened.... but here is what's bothering me. I cannot get back into download or recovery mode anymore. Been there all day trying to make it work with no luck at all.
So, more importantly, somewhere along the line, between rom flashes, or something, I lost the ability to get into recovery or download mode. I've heard that I900 roms have different button combos, but nothing works
I'll buy a few resistor packs tomorrow, and some cables just in case. I'm afraid that I won't be able to boot into download mode this way either.
also, adb is not detecting the phone. tried both windows and linux. if I could only get it even for one second so I can send a adb reboot download... but no
Do you guys have any ideas?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you ever get this problem fixed? The reason I ask is because I'm in this same situation.
We seem to be having the same problem also... Nothing has worked for me so far
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=960419
Pull your battery, pull your sd card, hold the volume button and plug in the usb cord, this will get you into download
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Keep hope alive glaze!
Sent using XDA App
Im going to get a jig hopefully all goes well.
I tried a flash and think i messed my tab...now its just a black screen with a faint light in the background like its on but its no images.......my battery icon pops up then distorts away and thats it ....can get into download mode but not recovery.....tried holding all 3 buttons got this lil android dude in the corner with a sign sayin something about power reset but cant select nothing......help me please......
Put it in d/l mode and flash one of the stock roms with Heimdall.
D
i tried a stock flash with heimdall it flashed successfully but i still get the SAMSUNG logo that flashes and go away,buttons light up at the bottom,can go in download mode but not reboot mode,phone stay on with a faint light ,so i assume that its on somehow.....help
Did you follow this exactly?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=967175
One thing I missed here before was to wipe data and cache. Otherwise I go into boot loop.
how to get recovery mode
i cant wipe nothing because i cant get to recovery,just download mode
done it step by step
i followed evrything it flashed successfully but when it rebooted i turned off.and tried recovery but nothing......
chubbyflood said:
i followed evrything it flashed successfully but when it rebooted i turned off.and tried recovery but nothing......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Use UnBrickable Mod
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1341753
Although you get a black screen on boot, it might still be working....
Chubbyflood,
If you are in the same situation as I am then the tab is still working, you are just getting black screen on boot up. It played tricks on me for ages when I was first rooting by tablet; but it turned out it is just the boot up screen that isn't showing.
This is my situation:
-Press and hold Power button to turn on.
-I see the Galaxy Tab / Samsung initial boot image for about 1 second, and also hear the "boot chime"
-Then the screen goes completely blank (but you can tell it is still on with a little light showing.
-The four "hard button" lights will light up briefly a couple times
-Wait approximately 30 seconds to a minute (to be safe and give the tablet time to boot up - it is actually booting up)
-Tab the Power button once, to turn the tablet off (now the screen is clearly off)
-Tab the Power button again, and the tablet will be up and running as normal.
I am guessing the boot animation / images are failing in some way, but the tablet is booting up as normal.
I've just learned to live with it, because I haven't had a chance to figure out what's going on, but it honestly took me a good hour or so, and a few (unnecessary) flashes, before I realized the thing was up and running fine, it just need to have the button pressed on and off.
One final thing to mention; don't have the tablet plugged into anything. I seem to remember leaving it plugged into the PC didn't help (I think).
Hope that makes sense.
Cheers
Ed.
Has your situation been resolved?
I am in the same boat. What I have done to temporarily fix this was to Flash a ROM that uses Hemdall and it will boot as flukebu stated but only with the Galaxy Cubed ROM.
I cannot get the factory files to boot as you have stated.
I have continually tried to return to stock using the files provided on this forum and all "unbrick" posts.
While flashing the stock images everything completes and works well. The device reboots and the Samsung Splash screen appears. Once it appears it disappears and scrambles the screen. I believe it then goes into a bootloop which easily enough I could access factory recovery to correct but when I do attempt to access factory recovery the screen is as posted above (black but illuminated).
Once I flashed Galaxy Cubed ROM and it booted I hit the power button and the locksreen appeared. I can tell you I was excited but there are some issues with that ROM I have not tried to correct yet because my main goal is to return to stock.
Even with this ROM working correctly I have attempted to access CWM once installed to complete a Data Wipe and that does not show up either.
I would really like to find a solution to this I want to return to stock and not have this custom ROM running.
Juiced_RL said:
Has your situation been resolved?
I am in the same boat. What I have done to temporarily fix this was to Flash a ROM that uses Hemdall and it will boot as flukebu stated but only with the Galaxy Cubed ROM.
I cannot get the factory files to boot as you have stated.
I have continually tried to return to stock using the files provided on this forum and all "unbrick" posts.
While flashing the stock images everything completes and works well. The device reboots and the Samsung Splash screen appears. Once it appears it disappears and scrambles the screen. I believe it then goes into a bootloop which easily enough I could access factory recovery to correct but when I do attempt to access factory recovery the screen is as posted above (black but illuminated).
Once I flashed Galaxy Cubed ROM and it booted I hit the power button and the locksreen appeared. I can tell you I was excited but there are some issues with that ROM I have not tried to correct yet because my main goal is to return to stock.
Even with this ROM working correctly I have attempted to access CWM once installed to complete a Data Wipe and that does not show up either.
I would really like to find a solution to this I want to return to stock and not have this custom ROM running.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you found a resolution to this? Mine tab is doing the exact same thing as yours after the cubed rom.
I rooted my droid 4 a few months ago when I first got it so I could tether. I removed a couple of programs using titanium backup (blockbuster app and some other bloat). Phone worked fine until monday when the touchscreen stopped working. I did a reboot (power + volume down) whereupon it just sat at the M "Dual Core" logo. I tried booting into the recovery menu but selecting "recovery" didn't do anything - it would just hang.
Last night I was able to get it working again by going into the recovery menu and selecting asp fastboot, then using RSDLite to push a stock Droid 4 ROM onto the phone. However, it didn't wipe my old system, and didnt install over it either because all my files were there, and the programs I removed were still gone. So the phone worked for a few hours then the touchscreen stopped working again.
I repeated the process with RSDLite and after a few failed attempts where the phone would hang while booting, I finally got it to boot into the OS again. And this is where I am at now.
I am pretty sure that the problem is related to the OS that is on the phone now and that I need to wipe the phone and start fresh with either a custom ROM or the stock D4 ROM. The problem is that I can't get recovery to do a factory reset. As I mentioned above, recovery just hangs and doesn't do anything. I am reasonably literate when it comes to this stuff but I get really confused because there are so many different ways that people seem to do this stuff (safestrap, bootstrap, CM( etc). I would love to try CM9 but my priority right now is just to have a phone that works. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
whoisthisis said:
I rooted my droid 4 a few months ago when I first got it so I could tether. I removed a couple of programs using titanium backup (blockbuster app and some other bloat). Phone worked fine until monday when the touchscreen stopped working. I did a reboot (power + volume down) whereupon it just sat at the M "Dual Core" logo. I tried booting into the recovery menu but selecting "recovery" didn't do anything - it would just hang.
Last night I was able to get it working again by going into the recovery menu and selecting asp fastboot, then using RSDLite to push a stock Droid 4 ROM onto the phone. However, it didn't wipe my old system, and didnt install over it either because all my files were there, and the programs I removed were still gone. So the phone worked for a few hours then the touchscreen stopped working again.
I repeated the process with RSDLite and after a few failed attempts where the phone would hang while booting, I finally got it to boot into the OS again. And this is where I am at now.
I am pretty sure that the problem is related to the OS that is on the phone now and that I need to wipe the phone and start fresh with either a custom ROM or the stock D4 ROM. The problem is that I can't get recovery to do a factory reset. As I mentioned above, recovery just hangs and doesn't do anything. I am reasonably literate when it comes to this stuff but I get really confused because there are so many different ways that people seem to do this stuff (safestrap, bootstrap, CM( etc). I would love to try CM9 but my priority right now is just to have a phone that works. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
select recovery by holding the vol buttons and power on boot just like fastboot. press vol - for recovery. when u see dead droid hit both vol up and vol down and theres the recovery
Thanks, I was finally able to get into recovery. Wiped data and did a factory reset which again got stuck at the logo screen. Went back into fastboot and ran RSDlite again to flash the stock ROM which gets me to the "Welcome to Droid4" screen where it says "touch the android to start" but the touchscreen is unresponsive. Starting to think there is something physically wrong with the phone....
send it to motorola, I've heard their customer support is pretty good. but if you voided your warranty by rooting/flashing other roms, I've heard bricking the phone and sending it in works to get a new one too
The only way I can send it back is through an insurance claim so I am trying to save myself $75j if this thing will just work. I just did a reboot and now the touchscreen seems to be working so I am going through the setup process....so weird.
Update: I was able to get the phone to load up and configured my google account etc. It appears that the phone is now running on completely stock installation of OS.....
whoisthisis said:
The only way I can send it back is through an insurance claim so I am trying to save myself $75j if this thing will just work. I just did a reboot and now the touchscreen seems to be working so I am going through the setup process....so weird.
Update: I was able to get the phone to load up and configured my google account etc. It appears that the phone is now running on completely stock installation of OS.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So it has been a couple days now and the phone works totally fine. It looks like the problem was that by removing whatever bloatware that I did, the phone's OS got borked when VZW pushed an update of some kind. Flashing the stock ROM without doing a factory wipe would temporarily solve the problem but eventually the update would get pushed again and the whole thing would lock up again. The factory wipe + reinstall seems to have been the solution to the problem.
Hello everyone,
I've been literally 12 hours searching for possible answers on how to repair my Galaxy Note N7000 which from what I've concluded, has a problem that can be easily repaired but I've found nothing but limitations when I have a go at it. It doesn't seem to be bricked as I can still access recovery mode, download mode and it effectively boots, it's only giving me errors.
Here's what happened:
1) I tried rooting it using UnlockRoot PRO. Paid the PRO version, detected the device. Later I find it says the N7000 with 4.1.2 is not compatible so the rooting process was never completed, so I rooted it using Root_SuperSU.0.95.Only-signed and it worked just fine.
2) Everything worked fine, downloaded Andromizer to customize the phone.
3) Changed the DPI size to test it, then went to Developer Options and changed the Animation scales to 0.5 to make it all run faster.
4) Rebooted the device. Once I did, I got nothing but "SystemUI has stopped working" together with "TouchWiz home has stopped working errors".
I checked around the web and so far, what I've found (and tried) is this:
1) There seems to be a bug related to TouchWiz and the Animation Scale option (or perhaps the DPI size option in Andromizer). So I tried to do a wipe data / factory reset through recovery mode.
2) When trying the wipe data / factory reset through recovery mode, I rebooted the phone, only to find the SAME errors after I registered everything.
3) First option that came to mind was to wipe everything and immediatly reinstall the Official JellyBean 4.1.2 firmware (at this point I want to pretty much unroot the device as I didn't know it was going to give me so much trouble). When I tried that, I realized that SUDDENLY, Odin (nor Heimdall) are NOT detecting the phone in download mode. I'm guessing it's because USB Debugging is turned off but, I can't access the phone settings. It's my only logical conclusion, although it should be turned on given I could install PhilZ Custom Recovery later.
4) I search around the web and it says it's a driver problem. So I uninstall everything, run CCleaner, USBDeview to uninstall everything related to the Samsung Galaxy. Reboot. Install drivers again. Reboot. Plug booted phone and let Windows detect the device, installed successfully. Reboot in download mode. Let windows detect the device, installed successfully. Run Odin: DEVICE NOT DETECTED. (It does detect it while it's booted though, only it doesn't work for **** obviously).
I've literally tried everything. I've tried checking for a way to install the firmware via Recovery Mode instead of Download Mode. I've tried checking for a way to remotely access the device and mod the settings from there using ADB, and I get the same problem in ADB, doesn't detect the device.
Also tried to reset settings to normal via PhilZ Custom Recovery which I managed to install later.
Isn't there just a way to reset all settings to normal? Shouldn't a factory reset do this? How can I get SOMETHING to work and try to recover the phone? Any Aroma Recovery Script? Any way to mess with the system folder and modify settings manually via notepad or something since due to the SystemUI / TouchWiz home errors I can't access the phone settings?
I'm barely awake at this point. Can't believe I've stressed myself this much. Please help. This is beyond retarded.
Thank you,
Z
i had the same exact problem just few hours ago.....first of all you should boot into recovery mood by pressing vol up+ home button+lock button until samsung logo shows and then wipe all data/factory reset and wipe all cache partitions..........if that didnt fix it you should try rerooting it againg after re wiping
I read the post but it seems you have done a lot of things and nothing worked. So what is the situation right now? You can boot as normal but cannot get any icons or settings as sysUI and TW crashes?
Try installing GB ROM then wipe/cache first. If good, root GB ROM then do full wipe. Then test ROM for crashing.
If good then install JB rom and test. Let us know.
unable to enter phone setting ? then just simply look for a secsetting.apk for ur version then replace it n set the permission rw-r--r--
You could use adb to modify your build.prop
Sent from my SGNote
Makrilli said:
You could use adb to modify your build.prop
Sent from my SGNote
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bwahahah, now I see why you guys enjoy calling newcomers "noobs".
It was a computer problem. I just reinstalled JB 4.1.2 from my netbook and it worked.
Weird as hell though, given that I updated my GT-N7000 to JB 4.1.2 through Odin in this computer and it never gave me any problems.
I AM going to learn some ADB / Android SDK though. I'd rather learn everything before something like this happens to me again.
I appreciate everyone's concern, and thank you all for it.
nice to hear that you had this one fixed
Glad to hear its working now.
n7000 touchwiz home stopped
Zardonic said:
Bwahahah, now I see why you guys enjoy calling newcomers "noobs".
It was a computer problem. I just reinstalled JB 4.1.2 from my netbook and it worked.
Weird as hell though, given that I updated my GT-N7000 to JB 4.1.2 through Odin in this computer and it never gave me any problems.
I AM going to learn some ADB / Android SDK though. I'd rather learn everything before something like this happens to me again.
I appreciate everyone's concern, and thank you all for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi.... im having the same problem as yours. i dont know what to do
lulu2050 said:
i had the same exact problem just few hours ago.....first of all you should boot into recovery mood by pressing vol up+ home button+lock button until samsung logo shows and then wipe all data/factory reset and wipe all cache partitions..........if that didnt fix it you should try rerooting it againg after re wiping
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have tried to upgrade my touchwiz to the new one, but got the danger message, would clearing the cache help?
Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk
Droid 4 running Stock Jb 4.1.2, Safestrap 3.11, Liquid smooth 2.9, CM (last stable)
Everything working fine for a number of months, installed Liquid smooth via -> delete romslot 3, create romslot 3, install Liquid 2.8.
It ran for a number of days no problems. Restarted fine, all features worked great, even the annoying random restart from 2.4 went away.
6 - 10 days in, im surfin' the news sites at work, put it down, screen goes black, i pick it up. Hit the power button cause i realize its off and it just boot loops... so bad i had to vol-/+ pwr, go to flash mode and THEN turn it off b/c it just kept trying to restart, hang on logo.
I got home and decided to AP flash the latest:
9.8.2O-72_VZW-18-2
Blur_Version.98.72.182.XT894.Verizon.en.US for the maserati.
Boot looped a few times, i was able to get it to go into recovery mode, after that it loaded up the stock JB system. First boot it crashed and restarted, second boot it loaded but only the keyboard worked, not the touch screen. Went to the in OS option of factory reset mode + delete storage.
Rebooted, worked. Checked it a few boots, everything is fine. I use Druid 4 Utility Xt894 JB version and apply the root. Works great. Install safestrap, Create new partition, install liquid smooth 2.9. Works for an afternoon... at work today the touch screen stops responding, i restart it a few times. I try to enter recovery mode. Now im in boot loop again...
I've tried re flashing it again, a few times. I tried even going down to the previous release of JB for the phone. STILL 4.1.2!!!! But nothing.... it just boot loops... what did i do wrong? It was running great. No tweaks or anything done to it prior to it having its melt down.
Help please.. ive provided as much information as possible and though i only joined XDA now to post for help, i have read it for a long time as my main source for my phone and have donated to both CM and Liquidsmooth teams previously..
help!!!
I can't see where you are doing anything wrong. You have obviously done your research and have a good idea of what you are doing. I see, after you fastbooted, you went back to Liquid. I think I would try running CM10.1 or even stock for a few days and see if you have the issue there as well. If you do than it sounds to me like it might be a hardware issue. If not, maybe try re-downloading Liquid. Perhaps your zip got corrupted somehow.
I would love too. In fact i would be willing to run it on the stock crappy 4.1.2 if i could get it out of boot loop this time...
It just keeps boot looping on the logo. AP Fashboot flash and BP flash work but recovery and normal boot/reboot mode just goes into M logo boot loop.
I've re downloaded the 4.1.2 jb SBFs from 2 different sources to ensure its not a corrupt file, tried 18_1 and 18_2 software versions...
Is there a way to use the abd shell to get into the filesystem and check whats going on? Is the SBF the last call? or is there another route to see whats going on or just flash EVERYTHING? Like completely back to stock?
I can find my way around a PC file system but im not familiar with linux. Please help me understand, Is it like having CMOS and BIOS settings or equivalent to damaged CMOS firmware? What am i not replacing/reverting by SBF and HOW can i replace/revert BEYOND the basic sbf...
If ya point me in a direction or to someone who can help me out i can do all the foot work just point me in the right direction?
Is this applicable? I found a site talking about using CWM in a ADB shell file push to possibly get access to more features?
The article also goes into reading the busybox / ADB command screen? (sorry for not proper jargin) and see what its doing during the boot loop before it restarts?
Id add the link but i need more posts....
Update: Flashed 18_2 again with a "factory cable" i made, let it boot loop a series of times before it started up into the stock system again.
At first, again the touch screen wouldn't work, random lockups and restarts, etc. Since i just got it into the main system again and i had to leave for the weekend for a trip(no wifi or network), i couldn't mess with it all weekend but i left it on the whole time and kept checking its functionality... gradually its come back to full function. Touch screen works and is accurate, no more lockups, no more restarting, even stopped boot looping when i restart and enter recovery..
Im not sure and i couldn't find any forum converstations or write ups to support to idea but i think after a major crash and you flash new or reflash your SBF, it seems the phone needs time to recalibrate and index? Not sure, but just an FYI. Gonna try loading SS and liquid again.