Do you prefer a clean version of WM6 or with extra applications?
And which applications do you like?
C_shekar - I think you need some investigation which kind of soft user needs.
So let us post our vision of required soft preinstalled in ROM.
as far as I understand we taking about freeware.
My List:
1. Touch flo (if there are any possibility)
2. Dict
3. Alreader light 2\Hali reader
4. Total Commander Mobile
5. TCMP
6. Pdf - viewer
7. WM5-storage
8. Some sort of timer.
9. ICQ application (qip for example)
10. Gsplayer
11. Rar mobile
1. No RAM disk
2. 24MB Pagepool
3. TouchFlo
I think the ROM should stay clean, so the user can decide what apps he wants to add.
I think one can only add the HTC home tab thingie!
Cheers
divocak
no ram disk ??
man are you mad ?
for what reason you need all amount of RAM ?
Are you know that without ram-disk device SLOW DOWN ??
But I`ve agree to save some extra mem by lowering page poll. (I think 16 mb will be ok )
No, just leave the pagepool at 32 as I think it's neccessary to keep the Rom goes fast. No more software should be added I hope 'cause users can add them in later on. Just all the important fixes and patches. And that's all. Anyone want to personalize the ROM can do that by creating an extendedRom in their SD, is it, so just try to keep the version pure (one of the best exapmle is buzz 3.33). But, the ROMs that personalized before by certain developers are appreciated as well.
obaz said:
divocak
Are you know that without ram-disk device SLOW DOWN ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh i dont know that - i think that ram-disk is only for storage. thanx for info.
I agree. The upgrade rom should be a clean one so a person can choose exactly what software they require and will use. We must also remember that we all use our PPC for different reasons so there will never be a rom with software we all want or need.
Clean and Clear
Hello!!! Yes I think the WM6 should be clean version, if someone wants to install apps they can do so. The reason to keep the clean version is to make the device run faster.
Although there should be a clean version but also there should be a choice of software (seprately given). If need be people can install them on their Device.
Kind Regards
Jay
removing the extra applications will not give more storage
it will not give more memory
it will just mean that the rom part of ones flash is left more empty
some softwares are necessary...
because not all of Himalaya users are goood at play the phone,they need it quick and all-in-one.
may be we can cook 2 ROMs,one clean version of WM6 and one with extra applications
Rudegar said:
removing the extra applications will not give more storage
it will not give more memory
it will just mean that the rom part of ones flash is left more empty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But not installing extra software will give choice to people what to install and what not to install. Dont you think it would be a good idea to leave it to people regardless of space or memory issues?
Kind Regards
Jay
very very clean please
What I personally use from 2003 and 2005 ROMs is:
phone
contacts
notes
tasks
calender
SMS
activesync
camera
windows media
bluetooth for mono headset, gps receiver, audio over car radio (behaves like mono headset and mutes for phone or navigation)
connection manager
picture viewer
sometimes Word, wouldn't miss it
Never used:
games
download agent
file explorer
gprs on/off
internet explorer
internet sharing
modem link
search
Powerpoint
WM5torage
email
Very unwelcome: certificates
I do use all settings from the tabs Personal and System, from the connections settings I only use Bluetooth
But -although a contradiction to my wish for a very clean ROM- I do believe that not only I, but most of us do like some features like smartdial, TouchFlo, PDF, VERY LOUD ringtones and repeating alerts for notifications, missed calls, missed txt messages and so on. And localisation would be very welcome too.
Theoretically it would be best if either during the flash operation or at first boot after flashing it would be possible to make your own selections using some kind of wizard/script that would be intelligent enough to warn for example that the help files will no longer be available if you remove IE, that probably SMS will no longer be available if email program is not installed (I guess).
Maggy said:
What I personally use from 2003 and 2005 ROMs is:
phone
contacts
notes
tasks
calender
SMS
activesync
camera
windows media
bluetooth for mono headset, gps receiver, audio over car radio (behaves like mono headset and mutes for phone or navigation)
connection manager
picture viewer
sometimes Word, wouldn't miss it
Never used:
games
download agent
file explorer
gprs on/off
internet explorer
internet sharing
modem link
search
Powerpoint
WM5torage
email
Very unwelcome: certificates
I do use all settings from the tabs Personal and System, from the connections settings I only use Bluetooth
But -although a contradiction to my wish for a very clean ROM- I do believe that not only I, but most of us do like some features like smartdial, TouchFlo, PDF, VERY LOUD ringtones and repeating alerts for notifications, missed calls, missed txt messages and so on. And localisation would be very welcome too.
Theoretically it would be best if either during the flash operation or at first boot after flashing it would be possible to make your own selections using some kind of wizard/script that would be intelligent enough to warn for example that the help files will no longer be available if you remove IE, that probably SMS will no longer be available if email program is not installed (I guess).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ya but this is personal List of what you use, if developers starts building personal roms, it will be never ending story.
What I suggested is to build a clean rom, Hyman said the right thing. Build one with basic clean rom and the other with fully loaded and whoever wants which ever they can pick their choice.
Kind Regards
Jay
jaytheguru said:
But not installing extra software will give choice to people what to install and what not to install. Dont you think it would be a good idea to leave it to people regardless of space or memory issues?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personally, I don't think so.
If one wouls want to install some software (common used, for example) he would install it in storage mem. And I could make it into rom instead.
If you don't want to use it - just don't use it
One day we would make a kitchen - and then all could make their own personal rom.
Personally, I can tell you that I'm going to release a clean and speed tweaked rom - once, and then I'm going to start releasing my personalized one.
It seems like we all get the answer now. One pure version and one with all modification that builder desires. No more discussion I guess
bearshare said:
It seems like we all get the answer now. One pure version and one with all modification that builder desires. No more discussion I guess
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes..i agree with you
jaytheguru said:
Ya but this is personal List of what you use, if developers starts building personal roms, it will be never ending story.
What I suggested is to build a clean rom, Hyman said the right thing. Build one with basic clean rom and the other with fully loaded and whoever wants which ever they can pick their choice.
Kind Regards
Jay
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wanted to give insight in how I use my Hima, it is by no means a wish list for a personalised ROM. (although volunteers are welcome to cook one for me ;-)
I hope others will give similar insight in their uses.
When I flashed to WM5 I thought I was using a clean ROM. It did come with Powerpoint and Exell, IMHO a waste of space. It didn't come with a working smartdial and it took me a full day to find a smartdial that works on one of my Hima's but not on another almost identical Hima. IMHO an awful waste of time unless you like to reinvent the wheel.
I've seen discussions in other threads about what they do/do not call a "clean" ROM. IMHO a clean ROM should offer as much basic functionality as possible. I believe Smartdial is one of these basic functions.
But every piece of software that you can find elsewhere, like Powerpoint and Exell should in my opinion be left out of the clean ROM, right?
A kitchen would be a good idea. A kitchen with a clear step by step manual that any noob can follow would be even nicer. Perhaps such kitchens were around before the ftp site closed, I'm only here regularly since a week or two.
I downloaded two files with the word kitchen in its name and unfortunately neither explained to me how to use it.
Rudegar said:
removing the extra applications will not give more storage
it will not give more memory
it will just mean that the rom part of ones flash is left more empty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You r absloutly right
Rudegar said:
removing the extra applications will not give more storage
it will not give more memory
it will just mean that the rom part of ones flash is left more empty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't agree with you any more
Does anybody know how to extract the files from the Part00.raw or the Part01.raw of the KS20 image dump?
I've extracted from Part02.raw with the standard commands from the KaiserKitchen thread, but I can't seem to find the proper incantation for Part00 or Part01.
I'm missing some files (rex_wce.dll and TrsTai_extension.dll), and could really use a look into these files to implement some missing functions that don't exist in the Kaiser's version.
Incidentally, if somebody has the Kaiser's rex_wce.dll, it would help a lot too for code comparison with the KS20's version, eventually.
Good Luck! Contact Chainfire, He's already been there & done that. (To no avail if you're even thinking video issues)
GSLEON3 said:
Good Luck! Contact Chainfire, He's already been there & done that. (To no avail if you're even thinking video issues)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He's not answering his PMs unfortunately for me.
Well this is really surprising, you guys talk about wanting drivers, but the reality is ...
Here I am with partially working .dlls after I hacked up the KS20 ones, rewrote certain portions, and recreated the rest so that I can:
call eglGetDisplay(), got a valid response back
call eglInitialize(), got a valid response, and then some memory allocation dies in pmem_malloc() in the lower levels (specifically in ath2dati.dll) ...
Can I get some help extracting some other files? I've already rewrote msm_clk.dll as posted (notice the date and linker version), and currently I'm working through libgles_cm.dll
Try this utility:
http://legroom.net/software/uniextract
I am not sure if it will do what you need, but it was recommended on the User Customistaion thread for extracting files from exe's and cab's and it is constructed using autoit which is a great freeware pc scripting utility, so it comes from a good pedigree and has been written to cover just about all types of compression.
I hope it works for you and sorry for the wasted effort if it does not as anybody working on this should be encouraged.
Regards
Chapelhill
chapelhill said:
Try this utility:
http://legroom.net/software/uniextract
I am not sure if it will do what you need, but it was recommended on the User Customistaion thread for extracting files from exe's and cab's and it is constructed using autoit which is a great freeware pc scripting utility, so it comes from a good pedigree and has been written to cover just about all types of compression.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, but I'm trying to extract from a ROM dump which has a much different internal format.
Meantime, I think Chainfire just came through with files I've been asking for. Yay.
So, I've found some old old (June/2007) XIP files for the Kaiser now and I'll see if that's still useful to compare to the KS20's. Anybody got a link on how to extract the XIP from the .raw? Google's not helping me much.
Okay, I've found qooqoo's subthread which gives me the tools: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=334680&page=6
And the actual commands:
mkdir XIP
dumprom.exe Part01.raw -5 -d XIP
Now I have the reference code to properly port these .dlls to the Kaiser. Thanks Chainfire and qooqoo.
is it safe to assume this project is dead?
Apparently, the LG KS20 does not have the needed drivers either.
janys said:
Maybe somebody already posted this...
HTC's driver issue is LG's, too
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
btprice2001 said:
Apparently, the LG KS20 does not have the needed drivers either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's some confusion as to what drivers mean. From the fringes I've been diving into, there isn't any specific Q-Dimension 3D support, but there's plenty of ATI-like 2D driver code in there including the ace_ddi interface, and possibly some MPEG2 decoding acceleration.
If the interview is describing 3D driver interface, then that much can probably be agreed to as not used/existing.
NuShrike said:
Well this is really surprising, you guys talk about wanting drivers, but the reality is ...
Here I am with partially working .dlls after I hacked up the KS20 ones, rewrote certain portions, and recreated the rest so that I can:
call eglGetDisplay(), got a valid response back
call eglInitialize(), got a valid response, and then some memory allocation dies in pmem_malloc() in the lower levels (specifically in ath2dati.dll) ...
Can I get some help extracting some other files? I've already rewrote msm_clk.dll as posted (notice the date and linker version), and currently I'm working through libgles_cm.dll
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey.
what did you rewrite? curious how far you got with this.
cmonex said:
what did you rewrite? curious how far you got with this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
redirected memory allocation calls in wce_rex.dll that is named differently in the KS20 version (get_virtual_address() -> RexGetVirtualAddress(), and nulled out free_virtual_address())
nulled out some function calls in TrsTai_extension.dll for calls that only exist in the KS20 version (I have to come back and resolve this with the new files I just got)
bypassed wce_pmem.dll calls to use qct_wce_pmem.dll directly instead (because QctDrv.dll is failing syntactically correct memory alllocation calls) during eglInitialize() (qct_wce_pmem.dll is almost identical to the KS20 version, so I'm assuming wce_pmem.dll + QctDrv.dll is some weird HTC shim layer to serialize memory allocations)
am currently digging through ahi2ati.dll's AhiInit() to see why there's a data abort (illegal memory access) further down in eglInitialize().
I don't program on weekends.
NuShrike said:
redirected memory allocation calls in wce_rex.dll that is named differently in the KS20 version (get_virtual_address() -> RexGetVirtualAddress(), and nulled out free_virtual_address())
nulled out some function calls in TrsTai_extension.dll for calls that only exist in the KS20 version (I have to come back and resolve this with the new files I just got)
bypassed wce_pmem.dll calls to use qct_wce_pmem.dll directly instead (because QctDrv.dll is failing syntactically correct memory alllocation calls) during eglInitialize() (qct_wce_pmem.dll is almost identical to the KS20 version, so I'm assuming wce_pmem.dll + QctDrv.dll is some weird HTC shim layer to serialize memory allocations)
am currently digging through ahi2ati.dll's AhiInit() to see why there's a data abort (illegal memory access) further down in eglInitialize().
I don't program on weekends.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's a hurdle I can see, most 3D GPU's require allocated memory on boot, or 'shared memory' (itsa friggin pc now), now from what I understand, the kaiser IPL bulks the memory into one wad of addy’s and uses it accordingly, now we need to dedicate some of the system memory as video memory to be dedicated to the GPU on system boot, no nand flash swap as the write rate will hose bits at an unacceptable rate.... This is why HTC would say it is too spensive to allocate programmers, my gawd, someone might have to think... (pffffft) POF...? The existance of an IPL has never been reported, but we know it is there, it functions as a system bios, you know, where in some lamer systems you can allocate deticated video memory.... POF....? Sir, your vast knowledge and presence has been humbly requested...
?Glitch
NuShrike said:
redirected memory allocation calls in wce_rex.dll that is named differently in the KS20 version (get_virtual_address() -> RexGetVirtualAddress(), and nulled out free_virtual_address())
nulled out some function calls in TrsTai_extension.dll for calls that only exist in the KS20 version (I have to come back and resolve this with the new files I just got)
bypassed wce_pmem.dll calls to use qct_wce_pmem.dll directly instead (because QctDrv.dll is failing syntactically correct memory alllocation calls) during eglInitialize() (qct_wce_pmem.dll is almost identical to the KS20 version, so I'm assuming wce_pmem.dll + QctDrv.dll is some weird HTC shim layer to serialize memory allocations)
am currently digging through ahi2ati.dll's AhiInit() to see why there's a data abort (illegal memory access) further down in eglInitialize().
I don't program on weekends.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey,
thanks for the answers
what new files did you get? i have some, wondering which ones you meant there.
?Glitch said:
Here's a hurdle I can see, most 3D GPU's require allocated memory on boot, or 'shared memory' (itsa friggin pc now), now from what I understand, the kaiser IPL bulks the memory into one wad of addy’s and uses it accordingly, now we need to dedicate some of the system memory as video memory to be dedicated to the GPU on system boot, no nand flash swap as the write rate will hose bits at an unacceptable rate.... This is why HTC would say it is too spensive to allocate programmers, my gawd, someone might have to think... (pffffft) POF...? The existance of an IPL has never been reported, but we know it is there, it functions as a system bios, you know, where in some lamer systems you can allocate deticated video memory.... POF....? Sir, your vast knowledge and presence has been humbly requested...
?Glitch
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no, there is no IPL on the MSM7xx devices.
there is a PBL that is not reflashable, then that initializes the radio bootloaders, initializing some hardware in the process, then those run the SPL and the radio image. SPL then runs wince
cmonex said:
no, there is no IPL on the MSM7xx devices.
there is a PBL that is not reflashable, then that initializes the radio bootloaders, initializing some hardware in the process, then those run the SPL and the radio image. SPL then runs wince
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, this write once PBL would remove any ability to deticate RAM to GPU and establish a handle for GPU drivers to use, unless there is a way to modify boot perameters, has anyone put the PBL through a debugger to check to see if there is an optional perameter file referenced?
?Glitch
cmonex said:
what new files did you get? i have some, wondering which ones you meant there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never had the wce_pem, wce_rex, and TrsTai_extension dlls from both devices to compare since some is part of the XIP. I don't know WinMob well enough to know about extracting this stuff then.
My first initial pass guessed what calls I could redirect. Now that I can see, that's why qct_wce_pmem is preferred over wce_pmem now, esp since the normal wce_pmem failed a simple pmem_malloc call for no reason that bypassing directly to qct_ worked fine.
NuShrike said:
I never had the wce_pem, wce_rex, and TrsTai_extension dlls from both devices to compare since some is part of the XIP. I don't know WinMob well enough to know about extracting this stuff then.
My first initial pass guessed what calls I could redirect. Now that I can see, that's why qct_wce_pmem is preferred over wce_pmem now, esp since the normal wce_pmem failed a simple pmem_malloc call for no reason that bypassing directly to qct_ worked fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh you can just link me the rom image that has the stuff, i will extract it for you from xip.
?Glitch said:
So, this write once PBL would remove any ability to deticate RAM to GPU and establish a handle for GPU drivers to use, unless there is a way to modify boot perameters, has anyone put the PBL through a debugger to check to see if there is an optional perameter file referenced?
?Glitch
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nope, the PBL isn't even HTC code ... it just loads the radio bootloaders. its purpose is really just to implement uncrackable signing (but HTC screwed up there of course so we have nice sim unlockers now).
and you can't debug the PBL, lol
not even the htc part of the radio bootloader counts, it runs on its own ARM chip - initializing the RAM for the OS is totally the responsibility of the SPL and the CE kernel.
though of course it initializes some GPIOs etc but not the memory mapping for the ARM11.
cmonex said:
oh you can just link me the rom image that has the stuff, i will extract it for you from xip.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, but I meant that Chainfire already helped me out with some initial files, and then I figured out how to extract everything else myself afterwards now that I had the necessary keyword: XIP ...
I know the WM6.1 ROM footprint on my HTC is 128MB. But if I download and install a 'minimalistic' cooked ROM (without all the OEM junk), will that amount of memory be returned to the system for program use? IOW, if I find a cooked ROM that's 100MB, will that give me 28MB more RAM for program use? Or are all ROMs going to consume 128MB no matter what they do (or don't) include?
BillTheCat said:
if I find a cooked ROM that's 100MB, will that give me 28MB more RAM for program use?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would give you more ROM, not RAM. That is, storage available for files and/or installed programs. The amount used by the ROM indeed depends on the software it already includes.
Ah. So the game is that the ROM footprint consumes 128MB, no matter what's in it? Is it safe to presume that WM is still using RAM for both storage and program execution?
For some reason, I remember on my HX4700 there was much dissatisfaction when WM went to v.5, because we always had the ability to move the system memory between storage space and runtime space. I guess the hardware on the Kaiser is operating differently then.
Please help me make sure I'm understanding this right.
What I need to do is to learn how to cook my own ROM based on a minimalistic starter, so I can pack in what I want to run, getting it out of RAM and off into ROM, right? IOW, I need to figure out how to move TomTom, MobileShell and other such applications that install resident to the device into ROM, freeing up the amount of storage/RAM that I have to work with. Correct?
If so, then one last question. What happens when I build in programs to ROM and then there are updates?
as of wm5 storage is rom
and application memory is ram
BillTheCat said:
Ah. So the game is that the ROM footprint consumes 128MB, no matter what's in it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. The Kaiser has 256MB of Flash memory. Part of it will be used as ROM, the exact amount depending on how much software is included in there. Usually 100-150MB, and those are write-protected. The rest is available as read-write storage.
BillTheCat said:
Is it safe to presume that WM is still using RAM for both storage and program execution?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. From WM5 on (like 3 years ago), file storage isn't done in RAM anymore but in the flash memory as described above. This allowed to prevent the problem where you'd lose all your stuff if your battery went down. Now you can remove the battery indefinitely without losing anything.
RAM is therefore only used for program execution. The Kaiser will have around 50-70MB RAM free after booting depending on your start-up apps, which is WAY enough not to have to worry about it.
Rudegar said:
as of wm5 storage is rom
and application memory is ram
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, that's what I thought. So, then I'm right in that the thing to do is to maximize RAM by moving resident applications into the ROM to free up RAM, yes?
You can't do that. Read my post above for more detail, might have missed it as we posted pretty much simultaneously.
kilrah said:
The Kaiser will have around 50-70MB RAM free after booting depending on your start-up apps, which is WAY enough not to have to worry about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then if I'm reading you right, your feeling seems to suggest that investing a lot of effort in cooking my own ROM isn't necessary; that if I get a 'minimalistic' cooked ROM and install my own applications, it's effectively the same thing? IOW, a smaller footprint ROM will increase room for storage of programs and documents by eliminating some OEM stuff that's perhaps unnecessary, yes?
I guess the things that I could do without are these below:
- Getting Started (A bit late for this now!)
- Windows Live (Do you really need this?)
- Voice Speed Dial (MS Voice Command instead?)
- File Explorer & Zip (Both these are handled by Virtual Explorer)
- Windows Update (If it worked, would we be here?)
However as I don't know how big these things are, I may find that it's a lot of extra effort for not a lot of gain.
Your thoughts?
Exact. Everything you install will end in Flash memory, whether it's cooked in the ROM or installed later. The only difference is that if cooked it will be in the write-protected part and will still be there when you hard reset, unlike the apps you install later.
Here are some numbers, if you're interested.. This is going from a hard reset Tilt stock rom (Although I soft-reset before it installed AT&Ts crap so these numbers are BETTER than the typical stock AT&T Tilt) vs ROMeOS v4.1.
Code:
AT&T Stock ROM (hard reset, no AT&T customization)
Storage: 124.91 Program: 101.38
In Use : 10.17 In use : 27.20
Free : 114.74 Free : 74.20
ROMeOS 4.1
Storage: 150.59 Program: 85.32
In use : 3.90 In Use : 29.00
Free : 146.70 Free : 56.32
As for the program ram being down 20M, I think this is because the ROMeOS ROM has dynamic page pool so it adjusts itself as necessary, but I'm not sure. I've personally never had an issue with getting low on program ram. It's certainly nice having 30M more of storage space (not to mention the whole thing being snappier and the interface responds quicker, but enough advertisement for the ROM )
kilrah said:
Exact. Everything you install will end in Flash memory, whether it's cooked in the ROM or installed later. The only difference is that if cooked it will be in the write-protected part and will still be there when you hard reset, unlike the apps you install later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A completely unnecessary concern, when you have SPB backup.
I've got my head around this now. Thanks so much, you've been very helpful and I appreciate your effort.
khaytsus said:
As for the program ram being down 20M, I think this is because the ROMeOS ROM has dynamic page pool so it adjusts itself as necessary, but I'm not sure... It's certainly nice having 30M more of storage space (not to mention the whole thing being snappier and the interface responds quicker, but enough advertisement for the ROM )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I understand there is an advantage to a 'cooked' ROM. Does anyone know offhand if the HTC OEM 6.1 ROM has some of the performance 'tweaks' you suggest above, or should I just back up and experiment?
What I'm getting at is that if reflashing is only going to deliver a nominal performance benefit over the HTC ROM, it's not really worth the effort for me.
BillTheCat said:
What I'm getting at is that if reflashing is only going to deliver a nominal performance benefit over the HTC ROM, it's not really worth the effort for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes and no. Remember, It also adds more storage for you too! This might not be as important to you as it is to me though. The only application i prefer to be installed to my SD card is TomTom, and thats because all of the maps have to be there anyway. I use several MicroSD cards Daily ( have 3 4gb cards ) ( one for videos, one for tomtom, and one for photos/backup cabs/ect ). Being able to have enough ROM open for me to install all of my apps is important to me. Its not just a speed factor, but ive actually run out of ROM space before..... not a fun thing to hunt down whats taking up all your space. Cooked ROMS open up more space by removing all that Garbage from manufacturers ( We call it Bloatware) and makes more room for my stuff to go
Also, I dont think any OEM HTC ROMS have Kaisertweek or any other registry modifications. Granted, you could just download a registry editor and a tweek program, having the goodies already there and the junk removed makes for a faster / easier start if you flash as much as some of us do lol.
Just my opinion.
Hello there guys.
I'm new here and I just bought a blue angel. I'm thinking to upgrade my Windows Mobile 2003 to WM6 or WM6.1 or WM6.5, but I don't know which one to choose - Which one of then is better and more realible?
I was wondering upgrade to WM 6.1 but I saw the WM6.5 and I really loved the desktop, menus, windows, etc.. but, from what I read, the xplode and sun_dream release are both beta?
I'd like to read first of all the answers for all this questions and then I'll ask for other questions.
Another question is about in how to know which one to choose, better, which one will fit to my SPV M2000. I'm saying this because a read that - "How do I find the correct upgrade ROM that will work for me?" and I need to "1. Go to "List of know Blueangel, sold as, Model ID, Operator code etc"" to see which one (of both I choose) works in my SPV M2000? Is that truth? That means that we are conditioned?
Best regards, and I'd like to thanks in advance.
ok, don't panic, i see your problem. in general there are 2 kinds of "blueangel" devices the actual blueangel (gsm) and the harrier (cdma). your model is a blueangel, so don't worry.
there are plenty more differences between several blueangel models, like camera or no camera or the different manufacturers of displays or the slightly different weight or button layout, but all of that doesn't matter for flashing a rom. that might be an issue when buying spare parts. no worries about that.
you are right in asking before picking a rom, but actually each person has to choose for him-/herself, because it is a question of taste and what you actually use your device for.
the beta status of wm6.5 is due to the not yet officially released wm6.5. you can still use those and they won't hurt your device. since up or downgrading will be no problem, once you read the wiki wizard and get your device unlocked and stuff.
what you need to know is, before first upgrading, you have a lot of work and a lot of reading to do, but once you did that and prepared your device for flashing, it will so easy, you can test a rom, and as soon as you realize you don't like it anymore, pick another one.
there is really no need to pick a rom like it was a dead end. you can flash your device over and over again.
but the most important thing is, follow the wizard for your first upgrade, don't skip any steps, don't be a smartass, because then you might hurt your device or end up starting all over.
the wizard is to be found here
i already set, that you want to upgrade to wm5 or higher and come from wm2003.
the main page of the wizard is here
and once you go through the steps, at one point you will come to picking a rom and you can pick one of the list given there for starters, or you pick one from the forum yourself.
for wm6.5 you have the options of taking
- sun_dream's
- xplode's
- swampy's
- thanhcong_to's
have fun
greetz
Chef_Tony
Thanks for your reply.
BTW, I'm from portugal, and I bought my Blue Angel (SPV M2000 - orange) to I guy here in Portugal, but I think he bought this device and ebay, or maybe in England (vacations), don't know.
Well, in part I understood everything you wrote, but I still having some doubts.
But first, I'd like to ask something else.
When I bought my Blue Angel (SPV M2000 - orange) the guy who I bought, told me that the BA was unlocked, and it's true, and here is the question.
When I make the upgrade to WM 6.1 (I'm more inclined to this one - but I've something else to ask about this), I'll "lose the unlocking"?
Now about the WM's, I'm more inclined to the WM6.1, but I've some doubts about this. Which diferences exist between the WM6, WM6.1 and WM6.5?
Let's imagine 3 BA, each on installed with one of the three WM's.
Which one is faster? What I mean is, installing the last WM (WM6.5) means that the BA is more heavy, slow, compared to WM6.1? Do you understand what I mean?
About the WM6.5 BETA, when the WM6.5 became official, the BETA version will suffer some changes?
For now i'ts all.
The next post, if I don't I've no more doubts about your post, I'll ask other things, now related with a step in the tutorial.
Best regards
first of all, the sim unlocking stays. that is no problem at all.
for the differences:
i can't really tell factual differences between wm6 and wm6.1, but i suppose that would be too hard to google that. i upgraded from wm6 to wm6.1 because sun_dream made a great build, that was very fingerfriendly.
and fingerfriendlyness is great and important for me personally. in general, after installing a rom or performing a hard reset, wm2003, wm5, wm6 and wm6.1 look all the same, the same today screen, the same start menu, and so on, wm6.5 is the only real different one from that, because it is the only one with the (invisible) honeycomb start menu and the titanium home as today screen.
by the way, you are always referring to the beta status of wm6.5 roms, but in the threads i gave you, you will find many different versions of wm6.5 the beta status sometimes refers to the rom state, sometimes to the os state, you have to look for yourself there.
and you are putting way to much weight on the versions. they all start with 6.X and it is all basicly the same os, there are not that huge differences like installing windows mobile, linux, android or pandorra to the device. it is just slightly different versions of the same operating system, and what you do with it, is up to you. they are all extremely fast, right after installing, but then you install more and more custom programs and they get slower, so you have control over the speed.
but back to fingerfriendlyness and add ons.
you might have seen that many people here extend their today screen with widgets, like the weather, or fave people or music players or whatever. when you install wm6.5 you have the full potential, you can make the today screen look and feel like wm6 or wm6.1 with the classic today and today plugins, or you can install widgets, an option you don't have with lower versions. wm6.5 has a new internet explorer, that offers full flash support and a "desktop pc like surfing experience" so the sites you go to, don't look crummy anymore, they look exactly the same as on the pc at home.
and if you like your phone to be fingerfriendly (it is 2009, we are not 90s palm pilot geeks with a stylus) you should definetlely pick wm6.5 because for the normal wm6 you would have to install a lot of plugins and programs and apps... to enable fingerscrolling, bigger icons, bigger menus...
and that alone will make the device way slower that any wm6.5 one would ever be.
i would definetely say, that in the example you gave with the 3 devices:
if you had tose three devices and you'd start a third party program, whatever it might be, let's say spb online, it would start on the wm6.5 first, then the wm6.1, then the wm6. you see the higher versions and higher build numbers mean, that people were sitting and sweatiing for months to improve the system, it's not getting worse.
you should pick one of the newest releases, e.g. 23004 in the rom threads there are a lot of experiences and opinions shared, you can find out what's best for you. and again as a reminder, flashing one rom is not terminal, it is addictive. you see new roms coming out, you flash them, you see something you like, you flash it. it is a process of 10min. net and with all settings, customizations and installation of external programs it might take you 30 minutes, there was a time, when the roms popped up every day, and i would flash my device at least once a week trying out new builds and new versions liking the new one better than the old one, it is a hobby.
try any wm6.5 rom, if you don't like it, take another one, i really don't see, why exactly you need me to tell you, what to like.
i have no problem telling you, exactly how to do it, in every little step, with full and long explanations, but since i don't know you and what you like and what you need, choosing the right rom for you is impossible for me, sorry.
i know, sometimes i sound a little rude, but it is not meant offensive in any way. i hope for you, that you find the best rom for your device, but i doubt that that is possible without trying them. you can look at 50 screenshots and read 100 posts, you have to see for yourself, what a rom feels like and whether you like it or not, so don't be shy, try one out.
greetz
Chef_Tony
Ok. I understand, and of course you're right, you don't have to choose any WM for me, of course. But because I'm nood in this kind of stuff's a senior opinion is always welcome.
About the WM, so in your opinion is better try in first place WM6.5 right? Now, I've to choose the newest build, RIGHT? (so far as I understood) - BTW, why you're are using a older build than the newest from xplod?
Other question about WM to choose, which diference exist between the XPLODE and SUN_DREAM WM's?
Now, about upgrading. I've run the tutorial and I've some doubts there.
1 - I've read the BA Getting Started:
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=BA_GettingStarted
And I read "How do I find the correct upgrade ROM that will work for me?" and made me feel confused.
To use one of the WM6.5, for example, I need to know if it gonna work with my BA from a "X" operator? I hope made myseld explained.
So this means that not every ROMs works on determined BA, that's it?
2 - About the ExtROM. I read all the basic stuff but I didn't understood if there is any kind of inconvenience?
- Deleting the ExtROM I win more space, but for what? If the WM is stored at the SDcard.. The BA turns more fast?
- Deleting the ExtROM, when I make a HardReset, isn't suppose the BA load the WM only from the ExtROM and install?
- If I want the ExtROM back, how can I do that?
Best Regards and thanks in advance
1. that section, what rom fits to me? is about shipped roms, they have complex file names and when you go to bigger archives of shipped roms that is just the guide on how to find the one, your device was shipped with, every rom here will work with your device.
2. about the extrom:
2.a do you remember your last hard reset? your device starts up for the first time.
you align the screen, set the clock, cut & paste the appointment...
then the device starts.
and then comes the extrom, it states something like "Customization starts in 3... 2... 1..." and then there are a bunch of programs installed additionally to the actual rom. that is the extrom or extended rom. it is a hidden partition with 16mb of cabs (installer setup files). that means you always carry around those programs and the installer files, too. it is like on the pc having for example ms office installed and additionally you would have the image of the office cd stored. you can always re-install it, but it also means you take up double the space you would actually need to run office. so the extrom is like a backup of certain programs.
changing the rom to wm6.5 means, you cannot access that partition anymore, at all, neither could you use those old wm2003 programs.
so, deleting this partition, is generally good, because you don't need it anyway and gain space for your documents and ringtones and data. your "C:" drive gets bigger.
2.b the wm is NOT stored on the sd card, it is written in the rom partition of the device
2.c again, the rom is in the rom partition, after a hard reset you should insert an sd card with the extrom on it, so your most used programs, for instance, the internet explorer or office or any other program you want can be installed and used without wasting internal space, of which the BA only has 43mb (or after extrom delete 60mb)
2.d you wouldn't want the extrom back, as in the shipped rom, it is useless sh*t, like a dialer skin or a wallpaper, made by your carrier to software brand your device and claim its territory.
if however, some day you decide to go back to wm2003 (but why would you?) you flash the shipped rom. those shipped roms are "baked" roms, which means, they contain the rom, the radio rom and the extrom, while the cooked roms published here are only the operating system itself, there is no radio rom in there, nor is there an extrom.
in most cases like with xplode's rom, the extrom is offered as an additional download, but not to be flashed like with the shipped rom, but to be installed from the sd card to the device. that way it is also pretty customizable and you don't need to know your way around rom cooking, to get it to fit your needs.
about your other questions:
- the differences between those roms are to be read in the respective threads.
while sun_dream's rom contains little apps like htc large title bar or touch image viewer, xplode's is a little cleaner and contains hardly any external programs, so you can make it whatever you like, which makes me an xplode fan, although i miss the large title bar, which makes the clock, the battery and the network icons in the task bar more finger friendly.
- the reason why i am not on the latest xplode build is:
i use build 21202, which is xplode's release R6.1 (release 6.1, not wm6.1!), because i find it very stable and fast, while release R7 has little synchronization issues, when it comes to contacts, and R7.1 has tiny sync issues with exchange. i need to sync my device regularly with my home pc and my work and i have more than one device, so without flawless synching, i'm screwed. those roms are not yet options for me. probably i should have mentioned those little bugs earlier, because that can also influence your decision on which rom to pick.
cheers,
Chef_Tony
Hmm, now I'm getting.
First of all, before asking something about your last post, I'd like to ask something else:
When you say "and so on, wm6.5 is the only real different one from that, because it is the only one with the (invisible) honeycomb start menu and the titanium home as today screen." this means that this WM6.5 was "cracked", "modified", "was made a combination of", those too "applications", comparing to the real WM6.5?
Now about your last post, I understand the section "what rom fits to me", because this threat was confusing me!
Well, when I'm upgrading the WM, this will install at the ROM?
So those files at the ExtROM, that you were refering (3, 2, 1 ... etc), are some kind of software that is installed beyond the WM? That's it?
But when we make a HardReset where the PDA goes for the WM? To install it again?
What you mean with this:
''again, the rom is in the rom partition, after a hard reset you should insert an sd card with the extrom on it, so your most used programs, for instance, the internet explorer or office or any other program you want can be installed and used without wasting internal space, of which the BA only has 43mb (or after extrom delete 60mb)'' ?
''sun_dream's rom contains little apps like htc large title bar or touch image viewer'' what looks like that title bar and touch viewer? Where can I see one?
This WM6.5 we can do everyting that my actual 2003 do? Getting wireless, bluetooth, etc, etc?
BTW, what is the RADIO? And for what is for?
Best regards,
Thnks for you patience.
1. no, what i mean by that is, that wm6.5 is the first os that really has major changes in the looks of the today screen and the start menu, by adding new features (titanium home) and finger friendlyness
2. i understand why that was confusing for you, the thread might really suggest that some roms work and other's don't but it actually just wants to clearify which shipped rom is for which country, because for instance t-mobile or orange are popular carriers in many countries.
3. yes, the rom is the operating system, the rom contains windows mobile and all the drivers and some basic programs, just like formatting and re-installing your computer, you have windows, some other useful system apps, and solitaire
4. yes. the extrom contains extra programs that are not part of the operating system, again, comparable to the pc, you will find office in there, something that needs to be installed after you format your pc. you can also put your own programs in there, whatever you need.
5. for the upgrade process, you need to take out the sd card and the sim card. and then, when your upgrade is finished and your pc tells you to disconnect the device and make a hard reset, that is the point, where you disconnect the device, put in the sd card, and then hard reset. that way, when the device boots up for the first time, it recognizes the autorun of the sd card, and installs all the extra programs automatically.
6. please try and do a little research on you own:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=htc+large+title+bar
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Touch+Image+Viewer
and maybe you might want to do the image search as well, which is blocked for me here at work.
7. of course it can do everything, wm2003 can do, even much more, that is the point of upgrading
8. the radio is for wireless connections, like the name radio suggests, it is for your phone functions and so on.
Thnks for your answer!
I'm getting more and more clarified.
Well, getting what you said:
"for the upgrade process, you need to take out the sd card and the sim card. and then, when your upgrade is finished and your pc tells you to disconnect the device and make a hard reset, that is the point, where you disconnect the device, put in the sd card, and then hard reset. that way, when the device boots up for the first time, it recognizes the autorun of the sd card, and installs all the extra programs automatically."
This means that we need I card with the WM6.5, in this case, that will serve as a "CD of installation - camparing to the PC", every time we want to update the ROM. That's it? Once the ROM is updated, everytime we do a HardReset the WM6.5 will be installed by itself, from the ROM, "no needing" the SD card again, right? It's just this point that I'm confused, so that I can join all the pieces and put together.
BTW, when you said that the SUN_DREAM has some features, like the fingerfriendly, and something else, and the XPLODE doens't have nothing, that doesn't mean that, for example, in case of there is no WORD, EXCEL, etc.. we can install it anyway, right?
One more question, now related with my WM2003 that I'm using for now. When I take out the battery and install it again, the BA starts to install all again, and I've to make the screen alignment, etc.. Is that normal? In WM6.5 happens the same?
Best regards
you are misunderstanding some things again, but don't worry, that happens to a lot of people when it first comes to the extrom.
you don't really "need" the sd card, you can live perfectly without any extrom, you can copy all the cab files to your device and install them then. all the extrom does, is install a few programs automatically, and of course that is purely optional.
same thing about the comparison of sun_dream and xplode. xplode offers a great extrom, that contains office (word excel powerpoint) and internet explorer with flash support and also some other tiny programs like marketplace, automatic data settings, remote desktop and so on, but you can use the same extrom for sun_dream's rom or take sun_dream's one (if there is one, i don't know) with xplode's rom, or you download both, extract them, and pick the programs to install, yourself.
you are not forced to do anything there.
and that is why you don't really need an sd card, but may i ask: don't you have an sd card? a 2gb card is like 3eur. that should be nothing to keep you from enjoying the full power of your device.
the rom itself is stored in the device, no need for an sd card, and once you hard reset, you also don't need an sd card. the only thing you are missing out on, is the automated install of programs, which does not keep you from installing them yourself.
i know all this seems complicated, but that is partly because this is all very theoretical for you. let me make this clear by posting some things of my own.
i build my extrom myself based on xplode's 21202 extrom offered with the rom (and yes, that extrom will work with any rom)
i attached a screenshot of the contents of my extrom folder.
as you see there is nothing mystical about that.
there are:
- a bunch of cabs. those files are installers for programs.
- custom.bmp is a picture, that is shown, while the extrom installed, pure eyecandy, not essential
- autorun.exe makes the whole thing run automatically
- and cfg.txt is a text file, where the installation of those cabs is scripted
to make that a little easier for you, here is the content of the cfg.txt:
Code:
LOCK:Enabled
SHOW:\Storage Card\EXTROM\Custom.bmp
CAB: \Storage Card\EXTROM\ADC.cab
CAB: \Storage Card\EXTROM\A2DPFix.cab
CAB: \Storage Card\EXTROM\HTC Large Title Bar.cab
CAB: \Storage Card\EXTROM\HTC_Touch_Calculator_Skin.cab
CAB: \Storage Card\EXTROM\HTC_WMP_Touch_Skin.cab
CAB: \Storage Card\EXTROM\Office_6.1.21202.cab
CAB: \Storage Card\EXTROM\PIE8_Flash3.1_21202.cab
CAB: \Storage Card\EXTROM\pocketrar.cab
CAB: \Storage Card\EXTROM\psShutXP.cab
CAB: \Storage Card\EXTROM\RDM_21202.CAB
CAB: \Storage Card\EXTROM\sipchange.cab
CAB: \Storage Card\EXTROM\skybox.CAB
CAB: \Storage Card\EXTROM\skybox.CAB
CAB: \Storage Card\EXTROM\SMS Delivery Receipt Fix
CAB: \Storage Card\EXTROM\WMWidgets.cab
CAB: \Storage Card\EXTROM\youtubeplay.cab
CAB: \Storage Card\EXTROM\R6.1_21202Fixes.cab
CAB: \Storage Card\EXTROM\blackblue_qvga.cab
CAB: \Storage Card\EXTROM\tcmdpocketarm.cab
CAB: \Storage Card\EXTROM\WkTaskL_1202.cab
LOCK:Disabled
HIDE:Enabled
EXEC: \Windows\DelCDetect.exe
HIDE:Disabled
RST: Reset
the first command lock enabled locks the screen and the keys so you don't accidently abort the installation
show custom.bmp shows the picture during the installation, and then there is the list of cab files, which install one after the other, then the screen and key lock is being disabled again, then in hidden mode the delcdetect is executed, don't worry about that and then the device is soft resetted and all those programs are installed.
that is all the extrom is for, there are a lot of programs i want to use with every rom i use. programs frequently needed for a long time now, and i don't want to sit there for hours and install one programm after the other by hand, copy the cab file to the device, then start the file explorer and install it, press ok, install the next one...
that is way to much work. and that is why i copied all my cab files in that folder called EXTROM\ on an sd card and every cab in that folder must be listed in the cfg.txt file, so the autorun.exe can find it.
and pleeeeease, do me a favour, before asking me, what any of those mentioned cab files are, copy the file name, for example "skybox.cab" and google them first. if you really want to know and there are no search results i can still write you what they are, for a few, maybe.
and yes, if you find any of the above mentioned programs useful, i can atach them here, there is no commercial program in there, so it is not warez for me to share them, they came with various roms, and i collected them.
well, and, did it click? now you should have understood the point of the extrom. and basicly, the sd card you insert in the device. the programs are installed in the device and you won't need the sd card till the next hard reset, and even then the device could run perfectly without sd card or extrom, you are just lacking a few programs then.
i wish you a nice weekend, i hope with the new knowledge you are able to flash your device, and afterwards you will think, "wow, some questions were redundant, it is self-explanatory" but don't worry, i don't mind, helping newbies. i was a newbie myself, not even a year ago.
have fun and if there is anything more, over the weekend from time to time i will have a look in the forum and i can help you out then, if anything doesn't work to plan.
and once the job is done, just like my signature says, please consider a small donation, for the coffee i need while writing complex and long explanations and tutorials like this.
cheers
Chef_Tony
Now I'm understanding a bit more
Now I got a little scared:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=538691
I read that post and that made me think twice!
This guy had is BA unlocked, and when he updated to WM6.5 and every single other ROMs he just "When I was on the win 2003 SE, I have to use unlocker to make GSM working and that is working just fine... But when I upgrade to any other version of ROM or radio ROM, GSM doesn't function like it should...".. This means that he can't make any call because the BA is locked again to the operator from the country where that BA was bought.
In my case, I bought this BA in a forum from I guy here in Portugal, but I think he may bought this BA in ebay at UK (because is a ORANGE). And I don't know how he unlocked, but now, after I read that post I'm a little afraid of upgrading, because if I upgrade maybe MY BA will lock to the orange operator..
Do you understand what I mean?
Best regards
it would definetely not lock to the orange uk network, how would the device get the information what network to lock to, all the internal information is overwritten, in that thread the device did not get locked to any network either, he just posted, that his radio wouldn't work properly after upgrade, but when he downgraded, everything was back to normal again, plus, what are the odds? think about this forum. there are millions of users, permanently there are 4000 users online. the threads about the roms are filled with 100+ pages of people thanking the cooks for cooking the roms and everything went fine, and now there was 1 problem that is not YET resolved. what are the odds of that striking you too? by that means you shouldn't go out of the door because something could happen. in contrast to that situation, this one with the rom is reversible and still to be solved. no problem stays unanswered here.
and, if however it wouldn't work for you, (although i still don't see, why), you could still go back to wm2003 and what did you lose then? you are back to where you started and although you lost some time, you also learned a lot about windows mobile and met a nice guy who explained everything to you
i just realized something else about the thread stated above. that guy has 5 posts altogether, all in that thread, meaning, he didn't bother to ask people before upgrading. he was not as careful and thoughtful as you were, who knows in what ways he tried to upgrade. we don't know the rom he picked, and where that came from, possibly not this forum. maybe the problem he experiences are related to his carrier in sarajevo. or maybe it is a hardware issue, why would your device be broken, just because his is?
another thing is the (financial) risk you actually take with this operation. your device running wm2003 can practically do nothing a normal phone should be able to do. all the great freeware, popping up everywhere, does not work on wm2003. the os itself is pretty ugly and not user-friendly. it is all in all outdated and practically worthless in today's windows mobile and cell phone world.
this would mean, by upgrading you gain a lot of cool stuff, better ui, better support, coolness, and a piece of 2009 mobile lifestyle.
in the (very unlikely) case, your device would suffer any tragic accident, while flashing, or completely unrelated, you let it fall to the ground and the hardware breaks (much more likely), what is the price of another one? 2 years ago, when i first got mine (without knowing about this great forum and the potential of the device) i paid 250eur for it. today on ebay, they go out between 30 and 60eur.
don't get me wrong, i don't want to get you to do something you feel unsafe about, i just want to make sure, you don't over-estimate the risk, but you are completely right, not to under-estimate them either!
it is your choice, maybe if you want to pick up flashing your device as a hobby and keeping up with new developments in that sector, you could look up the device on ebay first, so you are prepared, if one day, you might need a spare part or another device.
to share another personal experience. when i first flashed my device, with an OFFICIAL upgrade by t-mobile germany, i thought i broke my device, because i saw no warning, not to use windows vista, because that would disconnect the device in the middle of upgrading. then i ended up being stuck in bootloader, with an empty device and no second pc running windows xp to flash the phone from. i was pretty terrified, but then i found this community and i tried again from a friend's pc and it worked, pretty crappy though, because i did about nothing right, no maupgrade, no extrom resize, no extrom afterwards, didn't even manage to do a proper hard reset, i used the device for 2 months in a crappy state like that, and then someone bothered to explain to me, how it is really done. and when i understood it, i suddenly knew how to do it the right way, and from then on i started flashing my device regularly to keep up with the newest developments, and to this day i experienced NO PROBLEMS that weren't caused by my own stupidity back in the day. but i flashed at least 50 different roms and everything always worked out fine. because being careful and think about all the steps gets you through safely.
again, i really appreciate your concerns and your interest to understand the process before you start. that is way better than to try it on your own and then start posting, when you messed everything up.
there were people, messing up their devices, but none of those was as informed as you are now.
i hope for you, that maybe after reading a little more about this really interesting topic, you can convince yourself to do it, i wouldn't even write try it, because i know, you can do it. you will definetely like it.
cheers
Chef_Tony