Database Develop

Don't buy your Tilt through Frys.

Okay, I just wanted to warn people about them. I'm not exactly sure why they have a really good deal of about $250 for the new Tilt (with plan), but I am now on my 4th Tilt today.
The first 3 all had numerous problems and I'm beginning to wonder if they were selling refurbished ones as new.
Anyways, I did another exchange today (my previous had a couple hot pixels) and they assured me it was brand new never opened.. lol all lies I tell ya.
I inspected the phone in the store and it looked like it was in solid condition, even the screen had no dead pixels and believe it or not, the camera is like a freaking nikon it's super smooth and takes awesome pictures (maybe it was sent back to htc and fixed? lol)
Well, I got home and began unpacking and getting ready to fully charge it before I do hard spl. I noticed the sd card slot was a tad open and I go to close it and find a 2gb SanDisk card in there. NEW IN BOX MY ASS. I went to the device info and see it had about 30 min of outgoing and incoming calls.
Anywho.. I got a free card out of it and a much better camera, but still.. they told me it was new and it wasn't. =\
-Eric

wow, i would definitely do something about that. tell them about it and maybe they will give you like a 100 dollar gift certifacate or something. can you post pics of the camera so that we can see how much/if better it is?

Yeah, I plan to.. I don't understand how it could be so slow on the previous ones and so much faster moving on this one (in light and dark).
Gonna be hard to show the quality of movement unless it's as smooth on video mode too..

i doubt they'll do anything. well, if it was best buy they wouldnt.
best buy has been busted a million times by selling old stuff as new. this is illegal by the way.
it happened to me and the manager told me that he would give me money back and that's it.
3 hours later, the remote control that I returned was again in the "new" bin

I just don't get it.. we as the consumer are paying good money for a NEW product. It should be that simple.

Go to "Best Buy Mobile" (there are stand-alone stores and store-in-store versions)... It's not best buy, it's Best Buy & Carphone Warehouse...
While I don't live abroad, I hear CPW has quiet a strong reputation
You will *never* get a phone that's previously been used (Unless you are using a loaner phone ;-)) -- And if you do, call 1-800-BESTBUY and let them know so they stop working for my company >:-( We don't want them.
Side note: Keep in mind a lot of phones have defects to begin with, certain phones recently released have had overheating issues (over 35% return rate so far for one particular model), others are spotty in terms of manufacturing; at least in some aspects... such as the tilt's D-Pad, or in another phones case, frequently touch sensors

wow thats cool. the camera really is better? it doesnt lag in the dark? has it ever crossed anyones mind...what if 2nd gen Kaisers are being made, ones with video drivers.

Lol, I highly doubt that. I'll post up some pictures of the quality but I'm not sure how to show the movement quality.. the video mode isn't as silky as the camera modes

Still within my 30 Days....What should I do?

Should I return the TILT???
I was depending on this being an mp3 player/video player/phone/fun/office device. ALL IN ONE being key!!
This device has dissapointed me on the multimedia end for obvious reasons as I can't even drag and drop SD DIVX Shows!!
Is there a device that can do all this that I should get instead since I'm in my 30 days???? What would you do?
Thanks for any advice....

redsrule2500 said:
Should I return the TILT???
I was depending on this being an mp3 player/video player/phone/fun/office device. ALL IN ONE being key!!
This device has dissapointed me on the multimedia end for obvious reasons as I can't even drag and drop SD DIVX Shows!!
Is there a device that can do all this that I should get instead since I'm in my 30 days???? What would you do?
Thanks for any advice....
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I am also in the same boat. I was expecting more from it when it came to playing movies and just overall performance. Don't know if I should return it to newegg and void the att contract. Or if it would be better to keep the contract, sell the phone on ebay, and use that money to buy a different phone.

return them
I would return them, and buy Iphones.
Iphones have by far the best web browsing available short of having a pc, which is what I was hoping for out of my tilt. Now that i know my web browsing issues are because htc didnt provide drivers, i feel like im missing a huge part of what this phone should have been and it is very disappointing.

Take It Back

return it...

RETURN IT
why? well the more HTC get returned etc the quicker they will pull their finger out and correct things and not allow such stupid mistakes

Just make damn sure that when you return it; you tell them WHY.
Hmm... The new 8gb Nokia N95 has just come out... Looks rather nice too...

All of you whom own a Tilt / Tytn II, T-mobile or other clone distributed by carriers should return this piece of ****ty hardware when not satisfied with the video performance.
Indeed, AT&T certainly would not have counted on such a return (and loss ) and will raise this towards HTC as loss of business.

Just return the ****ty thing and buy something that does what it's supposed to do.
And, for your own good, never buy anything coming from HTC. They're crooks, hypocrites and arrogant bastards who think that their customers are of a low enough IQ to be mocked in their face and still want to feed HTC money (this is exactly what comes out from their official response to the driver issue).

ahson said:
I would return them, and buy Iphones.
Iphones have by far the best web browsing available short of having a pc, which is what I was hoping for out of my tilt. Now that i know my web browsing issues are because htc didnt provide drivers, i feel like im missing a huge part of what this phone should have been and it is very disappointing.
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It no iphone for me....no way. It has the same problems in limited capabilities as you have to convert everything and use itunes….no thanks!
Also, anyone have suggestions besides iphone??????

Nokia's new model of the N95 looks sweet. 8gb RAM, black, not HTC... Worth checking out.

FloatingFatMan said:
Nokia's new model of the N95 looks sweet. 8gb RAM, black, not HTC... Worth checking out.
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no 3g, small screen, no keyboard, GPS? ... all features i wanted

redsrule2500 said:
no 3g, small screen, no keyboard, GPS? ... all features i wanted
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Now to be fair, you didn't way what features you wanted!

FloatingFatMan said:
Now to be fair, you didn't way what features you wanted!
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Everything the tilt has...except it works!! I thought Tilt was my perfect device

redsrule2500 said:
Everything the tilt has...except it works!! I thought Tilt was my perfect device
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Yup. I bought my tilt last week so I still have two weeks to decide. I would return it today if i could figure out a replacement that does everything the Tilt does but better. I would personally rather have the Tilt than an Iphone even with the problems, and that nokia isn't doing it for me.

If you don't mind losing the internal GPS and the extra ram you could downgrade to the 8525 (Hermes). Nice thing is that there price has dropped considerably since the Tilt came out. For awhile there AT&T was selling them for $99...so you could probably find another site out there somewhere that would give it to you even better than this.

I'll trade someone my 8525 for their Kaiser

ha, I can't believe what im reading here! are u guys really that bitter. I honestly feel that even when (if) htc releases the fix, MOST of us will not notice a big difference in our daily use. I compare it to a bluetooth keyboard I purchased. before I bought it, I was going crazy, thinking I needed one, etc. once I got it, I don't think I've ever used it.
don't get me wrong, I would love the drivers, but other than that I love my phone. great internet, great gps, full keyboard, etc. there is honestly no other phone id rather have.

My Warranty ends tomorrow. I think im just going to keep the damn thing. Sure the video converting sucks. but, I got the Camera to work (thanks to Navadi), and I havnt watched a movie on my mobile in awhile. At least the reception is flawless. I have better reception than most of my friends and family. with the same provider, AT&T.
In my house NO ONE gets reception. and I can have a full conversation inside my house perfectly.
My brother who owns the Iphone. He has to walk outside in order to talk on his phone.
Oh and yeah the full keyboard is much better than the Iphone at Texting.
Oh and dont get me wrong I am disappointed with HTC with the way they are handling this situation. Atleast be helpful, rather than leaving us with a "F**k you, we got your money, you got what you paid for." what they did was false advertise.
The problem is, in the U.S. The phone is still better than majority of all the other phones out there. OBviously not in Europe. but here. Yeah.

I've had both the iPhone (Returned it) and now I have the TILT...i prefer the tilt.
I know the video situation sucks but I think the phone is still good overall

So tempted to take my Kaiser back.

what can i say, last Saturday i walked out of my local O2 shop the proud owner of a Stellar (Kaiser). id had a Hermes for about a year, my Orange contract ended so i decided to upgrade my contract and phone. After playing around in the shop with a Stellar and an N95 8gb, i made my choice. Alongside the N95, the Stellar stood out and i didnt even think it was a tough choice. Home i strolled with my new toy, happy in the knowledge i had found a worthy replacement for my Hermes......well........
its now been 5 days, and all i can think about is the shop gave me 2 weeks to change the phone! the more is use the Kaiser, and the more i read online makes me want to exchange it! First off, with all that RAM and ROM it still seems less snappier than my trusty Hermes (and yes ive updated Kaiser to Schaps ROM 4.31). Strange. Next i run some of my trusty games: Quake, SCUMM, SNES and GBA emu's. these run worse than they did on my hermes, even worse than a really old xda 1 i used to have. Im getting worried by this point. So then i try watching some TV shows on it. Man, i know how video ran on my hermes, i even watched a good 10 mins of the spiderman 3 that came pre-loaded onto the N95 i tried in the shop so i know how video is MEANT to run. and its not like the piss poor Flickbook show my Stellar was providing me!!! So i start to research my new phone and find out the driver problems that this new phone suffers from. How can a company release this knowing full well the problems its gonna face?? Its a joke! Especially when people are paying serious money for them. I got mine for FREE and im still considering taking it back.
So here it is. Basically I have til the 16th to return it to the shop to get a new phone. Im seriously tempted by the N95 and dusting my hermes off rather than keeping the Stellar. the only thing stopping me is progress on the driver issues! i know with a set of drivers the Stellar will become my new fav toy, its the only thing holding the device back!
So what i want to know guys is, is it really gonna happen with HTC and these drivers, i see so many conflicting stories over this issue and am very confused! Are they really gonna uncripple our devices?? or just make us wait til they release their next overpriced, under resourced phone.
At present i feel im gonna wait til the 16th and if nothing official has been announced then im gonna take it back, trade it for a N95 and drag my hermes out of early retirement!!!

if it can do what you want it to do, and you're happy with it, then keep it.
if there's any possibility that you will be the least bit unhappy with it, take it back.
you've had the same time with both in the shop and you thought the kaiser stood out. what makes you think now that there aren't similar troubles with the nokia down the road?

To me, it sounds like you should hand the Kaiser back, stick with your Hermes for a while longer, and see what happens. Defaulting to the N95 doesn't really make sense - it obviously didn't impress you that much in the shop, and in many ways it's a very different device to any of the WM stuff you've used before, with an all new interface etc, no touchscreen, no keyboard, no compatibility with the software you're used to..
The Kaiser is a good device as it stands, but has the potential to be much more. If it doesn't meet your needs now, then hand it back and wait - something better might catch your eye, or the Kaiser itself might get the upgrades it needs.

I would not expect drivers in the near future, if ever. I already made this mistake and have long since gone past my return window. If you are having doubts, it is best to wait it out until something proven suits your needs.

Or... I'm not advertising or anything, but look for the other thread in this forum, the "another goodbye kaiser thread." Some people have just done what you are contemplating. I myself have gotten an E90 to replace. Would've gotten the N95(which my wife has) but I need a semi-PDA, at least.

thanks for your input, i kind of knew i would be taking it back. really not happy with it, seems slow and slugish compared to my hermes at almost every task! the reason im getting a n95 is cuz i need a new phone with the contract i took so im kin of picking it on default rather than merit. its free so what the hell! my stellar cost me £89 on top!!! im gonna use n95 as 2nd phone and continue using my trusty hermes as my main device!! thanks guys!!! im so gutted cuz i really want to love the Stellar!!!!! BLOODY HTC, THE DRIVER SHIRKING B&*%ARDS!!!

I'd personally prefer slow WM6 to a fast Symbian any day. I'm not going to get in the whole "everything's running perfectly fine on my Kaiser except for 3D games" thing, but the customization, interface and the amount of development that people do for WM is worth much more for me than playing Quake 3 on my PDA.
Just thought I'd advice you to really compare the OS and think about it better.. besides, it's always in around 5-7 days that "hype" is over and you start noticing problems.. every device known to human has problems or issues. Besides, on WM you usually have a fix/workaround to *most* of them.
Whatever you decision will be, good luck!
P.S: I personally *love* Nokia, and if they'd make PDAs on WM - I wouldn't buy anything else.

I have to say that the upside on Series 60 (your N95 option) is that what it does - it does quite well and is rock solid.
It isn't as customisable as the Kaiser, but with Windows Mobile's greater ability (necessity) to make bespoke, you get the downside of stability. The slowness you mention is puzzling...especially vs. the Hermes. Surely you have thrown in something like MemMaid and cleaned the RAM?!
I have never thought S60 to be very fast and a TyTnII should stomp it in speed. Very strange, I think.
BTW, I used Symbian PDAs and phones from the early 1990's until 2007.

there may be hope yet:
http://msmobiles.com/news.php/7085.html

The Kaiser is a phone, not a Playstation. Take it back, buy a Gaming platform, and find a phone that you can use to make calls with, not eat pellets or jump fire pits and whine about why your tiny guy didn't have enough RAM to fend of an evil attack.

Why does everyone appear to complain about their kaiser?

I had this phone for almost two months now and I have not experienced anything that has turned me away from another HTC device. I purchased it with only 35mins of call time for only $210 and I believe its worth double that. My life has become more organized, I get much better reception, I can use the internet at decent speeds, hell and the video quality isn't that bad, i got TT6, and so on.
I've really enjoyed this device, xda, and the learning process.

i've paid 800 cdn when it first came out and dont regret one bit...yes maybe there are issues with the phone but which phone is perfect? its all about personal prefs and give and take..to me this phone is good and i can live with whatever wrong with it...having said that its not the perfect phone cuz everyone wants this n that...i'll still switch over to the x1 just because its new and id like to try it out...if its not good then i'll go back to kaiser...if kaiser isnt good...maybe i'll look into another machine...but a phone is a phone...its not perfect...unless we manufacture our own phones

Since most forums are essentially self-help groups, it's not such a surprise. When I think of my previous WM5 i-mate - the hourly soft re-sets, unreadable screen in sunlight, constant need to re-calibrate the screen, poor receptoion (even though at the time I thought it was the coolest thing) - I thank my lucky stars!
chuk

i agree, its not perfect and the camera is rubbish, i still have the hermes and i prefer the camera on that but, updated hardware and built in gps does it for me.
People should start complaining about things that matter!

I'm irritated on principle about the driver issue - I strongly believe they should have supplied whatever software support was necessary to get the best out of the hardware, because we all paid for the latter and we shouldn't have to get it working ourselves.
On the other hand, generally the performance is acceptable and as a whole the device works very well. I'd probably be more annoyed if I'd paid a lot of money for it, but as it was quite cheap for me I'm more than happy with it overall. But HTC need to take note of the driver furore and the damage it's quite fairly done to their reputation.

redbandana said:
Why does everyone appear to complain about their kaiser?
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I don't! ;-)
No, seriously: I thinks that's a false impression. In this forum you will find a lot of perfectionists who always want to get out the most of their phones. And even if they do, they still look forward in buying the next generation. At least that description fits me. ;-)

I don't complain about mine and I was one of the first people in my area to buy one. I Think someone cried wolf regarding the video driver and now everyone wants to be cool too. I would like to see them but my phone kicks other phones butts for breakfast.

I was perfectly happy with my 8125 (Wizard) until I saw Engadget's preview of the Tilt. I immediately pre-ordered it through AT&T Premier, and had it in hand on launch day. Even though I will probably buy the Xperia sometime next year, I am in no rush to get rid of my Tilt.

As a noob to the whole genre of ppc's... I have to admit from everything i have seen here at work with other pda's and ppc's, My tilt kicks the s--t out of the rest. I know there are complaints about the video drivers but f--k it, i didnt buy my tilt to watch videos... i bought it to take care of my daily needs for when i cant get to my computer....

Probably because it is human nature to complain......
I've had mine since the first of October 07, and haven't really had any issues.
I had to return it because the USB port died. Didn't really like the camera
until the hotfix came out, which pretty much fixed the camera issue for me.

Exactly... Ive upgraded like twice and got the fixes I wanted and I'll tell you I wont get rid of this phone for awhile.

I think the only real reason for a complaint is the driver issue...
people had expectations that the device would out perform a hermes for video playback because of the data sheet and the graphics chip. Then when people got it and it shuddered and such due to no driver support people got mad.
I understand, people bought the phone expecting one thing, spent a lot of $$ and it did not meet there expectations.
Maybe it was their bad for having expectations but, they were founded on qualcomms own marketing for the 7200 chip.

Oh I understand what you're saying about the driver issues, I'd be pissed too if I had bought for those issues. Its HTC/Qualcomms f--- up for putting out the ifo like they did. They have a right to be upset if they bought the phones expecting something that wasnt delivered.

No complaints on my side so far! XDA helped with any issues and couln't be happier. I too will look into the SE Xperia but the Tilt will stay

If it weren't for me finding XDA I probably wouldn't have figured out the possibilities of my tilt. And I have found some really awesome stuff for it.

Sure, I am annoyed that my Kaiser is not being all that it could be as its missing some drivers, but I still like it and don't think I have ever complained.
However, I liked my Hermes. If I had not broken it I would probably not have upgraded when my contract ends in June (I only want a 12 month contract max and am a student, so not a heavy spender and can't really afford £150 for the handset as well as the contract).
I see a note about a HTC Raphael - it might get me to upgrade, but then I might just ignore it as I don't dislike the kaiser. It's not like the Wizard which really annoyed me by the time I upgraded. At the moment the only thing I am interested in is moving to a rolling 1 month contract (which is not a bad deal) and I might buy the Raphael without a contract.

The tilt is the best phone i've ever had. Who says the camera is rubbish?! did you see the panoramic shots some dude took and posted here. Those are clear as crystal. I mean geez people want a perfect cell phone with nikon capabilities. People can't seem to remember that it's a PHONE!!.. if you look at how far we've gotten in technology it isn't a bad device. I personally won't get the Xperia. I'll wait for the next HTC launch. Videos play fine on my phone and I have full movies on my SD card and stream music and videos from my home pc with no problems. People just like *****ing. Like I said before nobody started *****ing until Bill Nye the Science guy started that driver post.

read my signature..
remember people... quest for perfection ends at you feeling empty and betrayed.

I have taken mine to Hell and back ...the fact that it still works is amazing
I realise it has some drawbacks..but I am fine with it. Not changing it anytime soon.

Im quite happy with my tytnII had it for six months now,it is a shame that the drivers are not there for the imageon card,mainly because im a bit of a gamer and was looking forward to seeing what it was capable of.
Unfortunately it seems its not upto much, the slow down on call of duty is laughable i think my nokia 6680 could out peform it.
That aside i am very pleased with it.
If it wasnt that i was put onto this site by someone i probably would have sent it back (HTC TAKE NOTE)...I got this phone free on cotract at the time they were going for £440 pound on ebay i would have been seriously pissed if id paid cash for it outright.
A set of drivers would be sooooo nice,so keep putting in the hard work those who are working on them,and thanks to xda devs a invaluable lifeline to many.

Is it worth it? FLV tweaking + other, or Return?

Hi, I am very new to the cellphone/ smartphone modding scene. My friend recently decided to buy a new phone so we had been looking for a good phone for him and me, so he decided either tilt or iphone. I personally think the iphone is neat, but the lack of 3rd party programs w/o jailbreak, and no keyboard (i must have a full qwerty keyboard) is a huge turn off. We both have att, so he went to the store one day and came back with the 16g iphone. He took it back the next day... so he traded it for the tilt. Well I played around with it and I bought mine the next day (this is like 4 days ago). Since then I have done quite a few things... such as find out that there is NO drivers for the gfx card... apparently none of the reviews actually came out and stated that... "sluggish at times" is not "NO VIDEO DRIVERS!!". I have also flashed about 15 times or so, tried all sorts of cabs and whatnot. Right now I am running the L26 Diamondv3 rom. Anyways since i know we don't have drivers we must make do with what we have. But if I am going to be paying an extra 30 a month for unlimited data, i might as well use it. I know that i won't be able to play any games other than very very simple 2d games. But I was hoping i would be able to at least watch youtube videos. Well, watch videos where i can actually see what is happening (not the low quality mobile youtube with horrible sound). I have tried flashvideobundle with the tcmp w/e it is plugin. It worked alright but not as well as I had hoped. I have also looked into coreplayer, but 1.) not freeware 2.) apparently dTV doesn't work anymore so you have to use DirectDraw which tears.
My dad has an iphone and i can compare his quality using edge to mine using hsdpa... of course the tilt loses...
Ok. Now onto the point. Since there isn't really any other nice phones out there (that i know of, please correct me if i'm wrong) that have a large qwerty keyboard, not one that my thumb presses 4 buttons at once.. I think I will have to stick with the tilt. But if I am, i want to be able to use $30 a month in internet. I am using opera mobile beta for my browser, but i'd also like to watch decent quality vids. So...
Does anyone know anything that I might have missed in my digging around. Any tweaks for coreplayer that you might have found that i could look into purchasing it. Or maybe something to do with flashvideobundle.
Another thing is, is that i paid $400 for this phone... and a two year contract. So... I really need this phone to work, very well.. even if it doesn't have drivers.
This brings me to the second part of my post. Since I have spent $450 w/ tax... Should i keep this phone, maybe hope HTC makes drivers/ gets sued / whatever (which probably wont happen)... Or should I take it back and invest in a different phone? My old phone is an lg Chocolate KG800 (not american version) It just has a numberpad. My phone before that was a bb with full qwerty keyboard which i fell in love with. Does anyone know a phone that my suffice either until something else comes out, (which i would need around a $100-150 ish phone) or something that i could just go ahead and buy, and be happy with. Two phones I saw earlier was the Black Jack II and the BB Curve These would probably work until something really nice comes out
I know this is an HTC site and the Kaiser subsection, but from what I read not very many people are happy with HTC... So if you could please give me an unbiased opinion on my situation i would greatly appreciate it.
Thanx , Especially to those who cooked all sorts of goodies for me to play with these past few days

I bought this phone thinking i would use gps, but i barely do!
point is, really really think about what u will actually use, vs what would be nice to have.
The tilt/kaiser will surpass, but even though its subpar at playing videos/games its still solid device.
I would love to play a game seamlessly, but then again, the only game id play is like bejeweled at the toilet. And kaiser/tilt plays it seamlessly too! FYI, With coreplayer, videos will play smoothly, and its currently being updated with flash support.(There talking to adobe and all that stuff, check out corecodec.com forums!)
A good phone w/ a slide out qwerty wont be out for a few months, and if ur planning on getting a deal with a carrier u can add a year to that.
So, if it was me and
-I want to get a good deal with a carrier
-I thought real hard and found out i really dont play doom on my phone that much.
Id get the kaiser
otherwise, if
-I have about a grand to spend on a phone
I would wait a couple months and purchase a nextgen phone.
Sony Xperia sounds nice!
Oh yeah, dont be a hater of htc because they messed up. They already do more than what other companies will do for their customers.(Offer a free Wm6.1 update, etc) To bad people dont realize that. Alot of people here expect to be spoonfed by a company thats not obligated too.

On, The GPS issue , i thought it would be nice, but I got a gps a few weeks ago so i haven't really used it. I am a college student so I need some sort of quick on the fly , yet simple note taking. So I was thinking the tilt would work. and for the most part it does. But anyways, Actually the original phone i was going to get would have been the xperia, then i saw the tilt. since they are both made by HTC I figured that it'd be probably the same device... but now i know it probably has drivers.
And I guess HTC has done some good for their customers, but what kind of company releases a $400 smartphone without drivers?...

BinaryMaestro said:
Another thing is, is that i paid $400 for this phone... and a two year contract.
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Holy crap! One of the reasons I'm not too upset about the driver issue is because I paid ~175 for this phone. I dont know man. If you ask me, if you going to dish out that much, you might as well wait and see what HTC Diamond has to offer once/if it comes out in the US. I haven't been following the Diamond too well so I'm not even sure. Dont get me wrong, this phone is really good. When it comes to functionality and availability of support (XDA) and apps (XDA again), its really the way to go. GPS, 3g, qwerty, a dozen chefs making dozens of ROMs, a dev community taking the best of other devices to work with Tilts, and so on. These are the reasons I havent sold this phone. I say do more research and look into phones that are coming up, so I say wait. If you can find a tilt for cheaper than 450, maybe in the 200 range, then keep it, but 450....? Damn. If it helps, I got mine at BestBuy with a contract...good luck
Thats my 2¢.

the money is ome of my biggest concerns... if it did onlycost only a hundred or a a little more.. then it would be like thats sucks.. oh well... but since i dont curently have a job at the moment (this is usibg half of my graduation money) so i really dont have the money to blow awa. my friend got a 100 percebt refund so i can to. but the internet feature is really nice. in my opinion not as good for normal browsing as the iphone, but i dont think it is worthpaying 450 plus the extra 30 for something that is mediocre..
(this was typed on a tilt on my way to clas... the text was really lagy on the input, but that could be the browser)

BinaryMaestro said:
the money is ome of my biggest concerns... if it did onlycost only a hundred or a a little more.. then it would be like thats sucks.. oh well... but since i dont curently have a job at the moment (this is usibg half of my graduation money) so i really dont have the money to blow awa. my friend got a 100 percebt refund so i can to. but the internet feature is really nice. in my opinion not as good for normal browsing as the iphone, but i dont think it is worthpaying 450 plus the extra 30 for something that is mediocre..
(this was typed on a tilt on my way to clas... the text was really lagy on the input, but that could be the browser)
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Have you tried youtubeplay and opera mini?