Related
[FONT="]HTC English Survey
and do not forget to mention you are unsatisfied with recent roms that lack the proper 3d accelerated display drivers for the qualcomm 3d chipset and that you want proper accelerated 3d and graphics drivers, the more people that note this in their surveys the more likely this dreadful issue gets fixed. Everyone that reads this should take the survey, the more people the likely issues like this get resolved.
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bump. sticky this or something!
Done it
I filled it out and gave them the suggestion about the 3d graphis
Why the fuss over 3D Drivers? What application would benefit? I assume some games, but I don't play any on my Tilt to notice.
tdusen said:
Why the fuss over 3D Drivers? What application would benefit? I assume some games, but I don't play any on my Tilt to notice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder myself! Unless you want to play online games whilst walking (and the joypad would be bigger than the phone!) 3d graphics is not utilised fully by any media sw available!
Unless you know otherwise....
done .................
I filled the survey also..
Necessity for 3d drivers
all 2D Direct-Draw apps will run native on your device staead of software emulation - a significant performance boost
Video playback is horrendous
Imagine near iPhone quality movie playback, finally!
Games! near PSP quality 3d graphics. With our touch-screen (DS like games!!?)
Camera performance...the list goes on and on.
This will be a glorious day when w eget our drivers!
.... and done
It is done.
Filled out.
It's not just for games. Drivers would make the graphics chip actually do something instead of relying on the processor.
Done.
Copy and paste if you're lazy...
"it is VERY poor that accelerated 3d drivers have not been released to take advantage of the qualcomm 3d chipset! 3d Drivers MUST Be released!!"
It's Done.
Survey completed with details.
I've seen this survey on the petition thread and I hope that HTC listens.
Does anyone know if online petitions and/or surveys have worked in the past for other issues? Or is this just a way for us to vent our frustrations while getting nothing accomplished? I really hope the former rather than the latter...
I still don't get how we would get our drivers? Would they recall ALL of the kaisers sold or what? Sen you the parts? How would it be done?
kareem9nba said:
I still don't get how we would get our drivers? Would they recall ALL of the kaisers sold or what? Sen you the parts? How would it be done?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Upgraded ROM with new drivers.
_Alex_ said:
Upgraded ROM with new drivers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, i heard this was a hardware issue, not a software one.
yes we already have the hardware, they didnt provide the software "drivers" for it to support full 3d
hi....
im highly keen on gettin the diamond2 when it comes out (due to the guaranteed free upgrade to 6.5, and for under £400 there isn't much else that rivals it (correct me on this tho if i'm unaware of any rivals!))
BUT. doing research on the chipset i've heard and seen all sorts of posts about bad drivers for the qualcomm chipset that was used in the first touch diamond, about how the video performance was terrible, and how they underperformed compared to much older chips!
So........does anyone know whether the video performance of this diamond2 will be better/whether HTC have fixed these issues/whether the qualcomm chipset in the diamond2 is different to the one in the 1st diamond, or if its been updated or what?
basically.......is the phone going to work as expected! i currently have an ipaq 614c with an intel chipset, PXA270. I mean...is the qualcomm chipset in the diamond2 better??
iv'e also heard that the htc touch HD solved a lot of the problems or something because it had better drivers? if this is true.............the specs on the htc website show the touchHD as having a Qualcomm MSM 7201A. Whereas the Htc touch diamond2 has a Qualcomm MSM 7200A. Now..........whats the difference. Is the 7201A the decent correct chipset with good video performance (if all of the above is true), and the 7200 the crappy one??
until i have answers to all these questions.....i won't be able to focus on university
I think the 7201A is the a 7200 with certain features that would infrnge some US patents deactiviated.
Could be wrong?
The MSM7201A is just like the MSM7200, Graphics wise. Only difference is that HTC adds a "driver" for their so-called 3D...
Look into the Blackstone forums to see for yourself about the performance of the MSM7201A chipset. Then decide if you're still going to buy it. (I wouldn't, although i've got a Blackstone)
no MSM7200a is the world version
which include the ability to recoard vga at 30fps and the world 3g frequescies
MSM7201A is the american version which don't include the 30fps video capture because of a patent by broadcom and it use the american 3g frequescies
this is pure chip hardware and dont have anything to do with what
drivers htc provide
Rudegar said:
no MSM7200a is the world version
which include the ability to recoard vga at 30fps and the world 3g frequescies
MSM7201A is the american version which don't include the 30fps video capture because of a patent by broadcom and it use the american 3g frequescies
this is pure chip hardware and dont have anything to do with what
drivers htc provide
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm I live in France, bought a Touch HD, and got a MSM7201a chipste on my device from Orange France. Nothing related to the american market here.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I can do 3G with my phone so...
The last a in MSM7201a and MSM7200a indicates that it's a 528 MHz version, without a it's 400 MHz. I've read that HTC went back to the MSM7200a version because of the poor video recording performance on the MSM7201a chip. So, I guess it may be older, but it's better. That's why both the D2 and the Pro2 get that one.
I guess the chipset could be allright. But HTC hasn't been all that good in providing proper drivers (so it seems).
Although I'm beginning to wonder if the Qualcomm chipsets are actually able to do good 2d and 3d graphics.
For example, when comparing it to a Samsung Omnia with a 624mhz Marvell it's really a world of difference. Ofcourse the Omnia has a smaller resolution (wqvga instead of vga) but it's much much faster than my Diamond (in about everything).
Especially when playing a movie or something with quite a high resolution (divx for example). It's much faster than the Diamond, and usually plays everything without any problem. Even compared to a Diamond with Coreplayer (for the Qualcomm video support).
So.. in short. I would not quite put all my hope on HTC delivering some magical drivers which increase performance a lot.
I rather think the Diamond2 will be much like the original Diamond. But with extra software features like a new TouchFLO 3D and some extra/other hardware features.
Looking at HTC's track record I doubt 'new high performance qualcomm drivers' is not one of the new software features.
edit: Btw, obviously don't take my word on this. I'd say if you are interested in a Diamond2, wait for it to be available and give it a nice test run. Check it out for yourself and see if you like it and think the speed is good enough for you. In the end that's all what counts, if you are happy with your/the device or not!
Like you said , the Omnia is only 400x240 with a CPU clocked 100mhz higher. The msm7201a in the diamond is running slower and has to push X2.74 more pixels! (and 3x more on the wvga phones). it has nothing to do with drivers (the majority doesn't seem to understand that) now regarding video perf that's another story. Coreplayer support HW accel on the Omnia (PXA cpu) but not on the Qualcomm chips (the Qtv mode is only a hack to accel DDdraw overlay) Only
WMP/HTc album support HW accel (and only on MP4 files).
I'm certainly not expecting any dramatic speed enhancements from the D2. And like I said, the difference between the 00 and the 01 is, as I read elsewhere, the video recording speed, not the playback.
Take a look here
http://www.glbenchmark.com/compare.jsp
Clearly HTC devices for some reason perform worse than 3 year old devices. These new devices will be no different as they are based on the same hardware. HTC are a joke.
So whats a good handy with good 2D/3D performance and Windows Mobile on it?
So...
Moby2kBug said:
So whats a good handy with good 2D/3D performance and Windows Mobile on it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the toshiba G01 with an 1Ghz Snapdragon CPU,
the HTC "Superstar" with Nvidia chipset
the HTC "Star" with Snapdragon CPU
the Acer F1 with an 800Mhz Snapdragon CPU and an ATI co-processor
Add if I missed one
All of them should run 3D-games etc. well
I would take the F1 from Acer, because it's sleek and elegant designed and only priced at 560€.
take a look: http://translate.google.com/transla...apdragon-cpu.html&sl=nl&tl=en&history_state0=
I've been playing around with Coreplayer by watching TV programs recorded by Vista media centre from a network share. It plays the video at 31 fps and looks absolutely stunning.
Also, screen rotation from landscape to portrait is instantaneous.
I am not too worried about the chipset when I see this performance.
It records video in VGA no problems and plays back no problem - to me, it has no problem with Video
From what I have read the difference between the 7201a and the 7200a is the fab process: 90 vs 65. So the 7201a should be slightly more power efficient (although if it is only the CPU I don't know what the net difference will be).
Why they switched is a mystery. At first I assumed that it was related to their supply side situation: They have plants that can build 7200a and rather than revampt them, they released a few devices that use the 7200a rather than the 7201a.
Ingore that one - the Topaz and Rhodium each have the 7201a. The 7200a was a typo.
pidsw said:
From what I have read the difference between the 7201a and the 7200a is the fab process: 90 vs 65.
...snip...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope That's what the "a" is for:
7200/7201 (not sure it exists): 90 nm process
7200a/7201a: 65 nm process
the 7201(if it exists)/7201a peculiarity is really due to a US patent. and this peculiarity is a downgrade...So if you have the choice between a 7200 and 7201, pick the 7200 if video recording is important to you, else pick randomly (or the cheaper ;-) ).
Whilst it may not be the fastest device in the world, for a 'Joke' company the reviews of the touch diamond2 are pretty good wouldnt you say?
Its a phone by the way!
PS. My touch diamond 2 has the 7200a, it says so in the 'Device information'
I don't have performance problems....movies in full DVD resolution are playing smooth, GPS lag isn't present, as on TD1...so I am copmpletely satisfied..
Actually speaking of GPS, it seems to work much much better on the TD2 than any others i have tried it against (kaiser/touch pro 2) I actually have close to full reception in buildings that the others wouldnt pick up on.
Video playback works great in media player with .mp4 files.
And the whole thing is just really responsive and fast at a stock rom vs the kaiser and touch pro 2.
Hello,
what are the differences between the two Chipsets in the Rhodium and the Rhodium W?
Thanks!
chris.computerfreak said:
Hello,
what are the differences between the two Chipsets in the Rhodium and the Rhodium W?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess the MSM7600 is CDMA whilst the MSM7200 is GSM?
EDIT:
MSM7200 is GSM only
MSM7600 is GSM/CDMA dualmode, which would explain why the Sprint Rhodium FCC listing says it's got GSM disabled...
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=cpu&id=a7600&c=qualcomm_msm7600
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=cpu&id=a7200&c=qualcomm_msm7200
The AT&T GSM band version says: MSM7201a
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/photos/htcs-warhawk-and-fortress-are-atandts-touch-diamond2-and-pro2/2032864/
I really fancy a TP2 and I may be reading this completely wrongly, but . . .
my Touch Diamond has a MSM7201A processor which is newer than the processor in the TP2 and is 65nm technology, whereas the MSM7200A is 90nm
Have HTC done some form of tweaking to give better performance from the TP2 because if not it doesn't sound like a considerable upgrade on what I have now
utvol06 said:
The AT&T GSM band version says: MSM7201a
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/photos/htcs-warhawk-and-fortress-are-atandts-touch-diamond2-and-pro2/2032864/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look at that link, the last sentence at the bottom in red...
"WM 7.x refresh awarded with Sept 09 launch date"
This is exciting me. Is this hinting for Windows Mobile 7 this year September?
stunno said:
I really fancy a TP2 and I may be reading this completely wrongly, but . . .
my Touch Diamond has a MSM7201A processor which is newer than the processor in the TP2 and is 65nm technology, whereas the MSM7200A is 90nm
Have HTC done some form of tweaking to give better performance from the TP2 because if not it doesn't sound like a considerable upgrade on what I have now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MSM7201A is not newer than MSM7200A. They are the same generation processor. non-A is 90nm, A is 65nm. 0 is original chip, 1 is with patent workaround. 0 outperforms 1, patent workaround introduced some performance issues.
Laymans term, 7200A is 65nm and faster than 7201A.
TP2 = much faster than TP (probably mostly related to tweaks we had in our custom ROMs anyways, and faster flash and ram chips).
Why do I need to keep telling people this....
LilGBlood said:
Look at that link, the last sentence at the bottom in red...
"WM 7.x refresh awarded with Sept 09 launch date"
This is exciting me. Is this hinting for Windows Mobile 7 this year September?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a typo, should be WM 6.x refresh, i.e. 6.5, which has been said to be released on actual phones in September for ages now.
By patent workarounds, may I hopefully assume it's concerning the hardware video acceleration part? If so, may I also hopefully assume the TP2 has some built in use of that part of the chipset??? Please.... My old HD is getting wore out and I need an excuse to upgrade
Thanks Chainfire... many respects...
Chainfire said:
...0 is original chip, 1 is with patent workaround. 0 outperforms 1, patent workaround introduced some performance issues.
Laymans term, 7200A is 65nm and faster than 7201A.
TP2 = much faster than TP ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SomethingWicked said:
By patent workarounds, may I hopefully assume it's concerning the hardware video acceleration part? If so, may I also hopefully assume the TP2 has some built in use of that part of the chipset??? Please.... My old HD is getting wore out and I need an excuse to upgrade
Thanks Chainfire... many respects...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The patent issue AFAIK only has to do with some 3G stuff (I don't know how this relates to the performance issues of the 1 variant, though, I know there is something with that). Still TP2 does have HW 3D video - but so do the Diamond, TP, HD, and Diam2. The TP2 (and TD2) is noticably faster than the HD, though.
Chainfire said:
The patent issue AFAIK only has to do with some 3G stuff (I don't know how this relates to the performance issues of the 1 variant, though, I know there is something with that). Still TP2 does have HW 3D video - but so do the Diamond, TP, HD, and Diam2. The TP2 (and TD2) is noticably faster than the HD, though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, it would have been better if you could put some references about your comments. Especially this one: "Laymans term, 7200A is 65nm and faster than 7201A."
It seems you're right about patent issue (though it is hard to find anything about that), I found this site: http://www.scribd.com/doc/2140146/tag1202114pagenews1tQualcomm-Launches-UMTS-Chipsetsd578, which says:
" In December 2007, US federal judge issued an injunction against Qualcomm for infringement of three Broadcom patents and ordered it to stop selling 3G wideband code division multiple access (WCDMA) cellular chips that breach Broadcom patents. The company has launched the mobile station modem (MSM) 6271, MSM6281, MSM7201 and MSM7201A chipsets in the US. According to the company, the new chipsets are pin- and software-compatible with the existing product versions for easy transition. "
So if the site i'm referecing is reliable, then you're right about this.
But where did you get the info about the 65nm? Could you give us some references? The only site I found (where the size is mentioned) is this: http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=cpu&id=a7200a&c=qualcomm_msm7200a and it says it is 90nm.
What's more interesting that on this site: http://www.qctconnect.com/products/msm_7201.html#Technical Features It says: "Qcamcorder™: Record up to 24 fps QVGA"
Meanwile here: http://pdfserv.datasheetpro.net/QUALCOMM/msm7200a_chipset.pdf
"Qcamcorder™ Encoder
• A real-time wireless video recording solution that captures movies at 30 fps WVGA"
(this datasheet - by the way - mentions lots of interesting infos)
mydexterid said:
Actually, it would have been better ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Perhaps if you asked nicely. And even then I'm inclined to tell you to UTFS (it's not like this is "new" information)
EDIT: BTW, seems I didn't mention it in this thread - I did in another - it does indeed seem that the US TP2 (non-Sprint, which will use MSM7600 series) is MSM7201A, while the EU (and possibly Asia) versions use MSM7200A.
Did you guys forget Xperia X1? It also uses the same processor like the Touch Pro2.
A thread like this has been discussed in X1 forum. Sadly, it seemed like X1 has the worse performance of them all...
netsurfz said:
Did you guys forget Xperia X1? It also uses the same processor like the Touch Pro2.
A thread like this has been discussed in X1 forum. Sadly, it seemed like X1 has the worse performance of them all...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of the performance gains are due to faster RAM/Flash ICs, not the processor.
Chainfire said:
Perhaps if you asked nicely. And even then I'm inclined to tell you to UTFS (it's not like this is "new" information)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah.. what I expected.. Layman...
Chainfire said:
Perhaps if you asked nicely. And even then I'm inclined to tell you to UTFS (it's not like this is "new" information)
EDIT: BTW, seems I didn't mention it in this thread - I did in another - it does indeed seem that the US TP2 (non-Sprint, which will use MSM7600 series) is MSM7201A, while the EU (and possibly Asia) versions use MSM7200A.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And in just a few short hours i'll have mine in my grubby lil hands hehehe....
GOT TO GET ME DAT ANDROID NOW
[and its sprint - yey yey new cpu]
btw found some interesting things here:
http://www.datasheetpro.com/node/50272
gives some details on the 7600 chipset - very nice diagrams and whatnot
After having tried out a few ROMs (none recently) I am somewhat disappointed with my Diamond's performance. I am tired of waiting for my menu pages to finally appear after selecting them, I don't feel the urge to keep on trying out new ROMs until one is maybe 10% faster than the original.
Is there any ROM/UI solution that is really fast and immediately makes my phone display what it is supposed to? What about other TF versions/substitutions?
Besides speed, my only requirements are absence of annoying bugs and a slider/hw-buttons-only option to accept/reject calls.
Could you guys please give me a recommendation? What was the fastest solution you encountered? Thanks in advance.
Mmmm....
That all depends on what you call fast. The device will never perform like current devices. The only speed increase I've noticed after trying many, many ROM's is with TF3D2. This is way quicker than the original TF3D shipped with the Diamond, but as for the general day to day operation, none of the ROM's in my opinion, are any quicker than any other.
Sure, chef's comment on lightening this, and speedy that, but at the end of the day, we're stuck with what that crap OMAP processor can handle. Bring on the Snapdragon powered devices!
I remember reading something about the CPU taking all the load for graphics processing. Is there a dedicated GPU and wouldn't appropriate drivers for its usage speed things up? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
the cpu is an MSM7201A which got an ATI Imageon gpu integrated into it
Ooops!
Rudegar said:
the cpu is an MSM7201A which got an ATI Imageon gpu integrated into it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry... my apologies! I was thinking of the original Touch! You're quite right, the Diamond has a QUALCOMM processor
Graphics...
Affenpeter said:
I remember reading something about the CPU taking all the load for graphics processing. Is there a dedicated GPU and wouldn't appropriate drivers for its usage speed things up? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe that 64MB of the onboard 192MB are dedicated to graphics processing. Drivers may come in to it, but whether updated drivers would make a huge speed difference is debateable!
why have they put an old model processor in there? why not the MSM8255?
i am holding out for a little bit, i am due an upgrade now, but dont want to rush into buying this phone if something better is coming.
Plus want to see what modding can be done to the software / themes, 3rd party apps etc
t3rm3y said:
why have they put an old model processor in there? why not the MSM8255?
i am holding out for a little bit, i am due an upgrade now, but dont want to rush into buying this phone if something better is coming.
Plus want to see what modding can be done to the software / themes, 3rd party apps etc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
because Microsoft only support the "old" snapdragon .
why apple customers don't ask them the same question , they use the same GPU as what is in 3gs a year ago ,
a second thing wp7 is developed on the snapdragon which is more than enough for now with it's improved drivers and direct x 9 support , it will perform even 2x better than a DHD with 8255 processor
t3rm3y said:
but dont want to rush into buying this phone if something better is coming.
QUOTE]
Sorry I'm the one that had to break the news, but there is always something better coming...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hoss_n2 said:
why apple customers don't ask them the same question , they use the same GPU as what is in 3gs a year ago ,
a second thing wp7 is developed on the snapdragon which is more than enough for now with it's improved drivers and direct x 9 support , it will perform even 2x better than a DHD with 8255 processor
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 and 10char
t3rm3y said:
why have they put an old model processor in there? why not the MSM8255?
i am holding out for a little bit, i am due an upgrade now, but dont want to rush into buying this phone if something better is coming.
Plus want to see what modding can be done to the software / themes, 3rd party apps etc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have an HD7, it is lag free and very responsive, I think the processor will be up to the task as long as the coding is optimal.
Because having the next most powerful processor isn't important. It doesn't matter what kinda specs a device is running s long as the device runs well. Apple has proved that.
And from what I have seen, MP7 runs beautifully.
Lorddeff07 said:
Because having the next most powerful processor isn't important. It doesn't matter what kinda specs a device is running s long as the device runs well. Apple has proved that.
And from what I have seen, MP7 runs beautifully.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True that.
Old processor?
Maybe this is a bad news to you, but it's good to me cause of my hd2.
I probably would have been crying about the same thing, if technology was growing by leaps and bounds. But its not right now, technology is kinda stagnate as of lately. Yes, the HD7 has the same processor as its predecessor the HD2, but its not a bad thing. especially now that the new rom has came out for the HD2, it feels faster than ever (you can go on the HD2 and Leo boards to attest for yourself). Another thing to remember, is that the new Windows Phone 7, is not an OS that needs a 2Ghz processor to run buttery smooth. I think that we are used to the PC ideology that the next thing should have a higher number than the last, in order to be considered and respectable upgrade. But even those Intel and AMD processors, reached their, threshold for raw computing power (for now) and the companies are now refining their codes, and drivers, in order to utilize and maximize peak performance out of what they already have. (That's why 4Ghz desktop processors aren't mainstream yet)
Another thing is the WP7 is standardized with base set requirements for internal specs. I truly doubt that you'll find a noticeable difference between all the launch devices behavior with the OS, because of their processors. The mail screen might open up a little quicker on one device, but again, that could be a driver code magic for the display adapter in a particular phone, so the one that "wins" in our mind, should have been the "newer, speedier" processor but because of the refinement and more developed drivers, the one that displayed the inbox quicker was the "older" processor. (I hope you guys got that...lol)
So what I'm trying to say at the end of the day, is it really doesn't matter about the processor spec, because whats inside the HD7 is more than plenty to run the OS and its apps very very nicely.