Database Develop

graphics better...so what..?

hi all,
I read the review of the kaiser and wondered whether the better graphics really make a difference.
Can anyone explain the difference to me?
Thanks
Sam.

The difference is that they will be better (!)
So for instance, if you have a Hermes you'll almost certainly have experienced slowdown while watching videos or playing games which will (hopefully) be a thing of the past with the Kaiser.
Even if it still isn't perfect (and what is?) it should at least be a significant improvement...

kaiserchief said:
The difference is that they will be better (!)
So for instance, if you have a Hermes you'll almost certainly have experienced slowdown while watching videos or playing games which will (hopefully) be a thing of the past with the Kaiser.
Even if it still isn't perfect (and what is?) it should at least be a significant improvement...
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Click to collapse
Yeah I thought the Hermes had bad video rendering. I was all like, "Sweet a 400mhz proc now I can watch video flawlessly". Not so. I think my Wizard did video slightly better then the Hermes. OC'd that is...

juiceppc said:
Yeah I thought the Hermes had bad video rendering. I was all like, "Sweet a 400mhz proc now I can watch video flawlessly". Not so. I think my Wizard did video slightly better then the Hermes. OC'd that is...
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well hey take a look at these benchmark results.
it shows HUGE improvement. 6 times better graphics. that includes gaming and video.
http://www.modaco.com/index.php?showtopic=256117&st=20

the graphics improvements only help if the app was written with the qualcomm gpu in mind...all the older apps run slow gfx wise unless they use GDI

I really don't watch much video, but I HATE my Hermes taking FOREVER to switch from portrait to landscape (and back, especially when I miss calls because my pouch magnet makes it switch, then it has to switch back, and then load the phone app, then the call is gone!!). Watching the online video review the switching seemed faster, but far from instananeous.

mkent_barbados said:
I really don't watch much video, but I HATE my Hermes taking FOREVER to switch from portrait to landscape (and back, especially when I miss calls because my pouch magnet makes it switch, then it has to switch back, and then load the phone app, then the call is gone!!). Watching the online video review the switching seemed faster, but far from instananeous.
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well im happy to quote from here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=1394910&posted=1#post1394910
that it takes only .5 seconds for the keyboard screen rotation.

i will know if the graphics are better.
I put my text in the smallest view it has,
and when its changed to landscape mode,
we will see if the graphics are better,
and not that it really matters to me.

As far as I have looked on benchmarks, the Qualcomm CPU @ 400MHz is some 10-20% better than a Samsung @400 MHz (TyTN), Which in turn is arond 20% better than a Xscale 270 @ 400MHz... That means that the Qualcomm can be considered to have performace close to 600MHz of a XScale CPU... At least as far as the benchmarks available from several sources tell us. Now, if it really has that 128MB of RAM, then it will be really really interesting, and the first thing XDA folks would do, of course, would be to pump up the page pool to try to eke out a little bit of extra performance...

Brazilian Joe said:
As far as I have looked on benchmarks, the Qualcomm CPU @ 400MHz is some 10-20% better than a Samsung @400 MHz (TyTN), Which in turn is arond 20% better than a Xscale 270 @ 400MHz... That means that the Qualcomm can be considered to have performace close to 600MHz of a XScale CPU... At least as far as the benchmarks available from several sources tell us. Now, if it really has that 128MB of RAM, then it will be really really interesting, and the first thing XDA folks would do, of course, would be to pump up the page pool to try to eke out a little bit of extra performance...
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you sure its only 10-20%? i mean they were saying it's 6 times better than the 8525's graphical index.

Performance comparison to 8525
I was wondering if anyone knew if the OS played a part in the 8525 vs 8925 comparison at http://www.modaco.com/HTC-Kaiser-hands-review-t256117.html&st=20?
Could be a factor for some of the performance boost?
I am interested in the extra memory and the built in GPS. (I hope the battery will last with all the bells and whistles!)
Mark

misfitflt said:
I was wondering if anyone knew if the OS played a part in the 8525 vs 8925 comparison at http://www.modaco.com/HTC-Kaiser-hands-review-t256117.html&st=20?
Could be a factor for some of the performance boost?
I am interested in the extra memory and the built in GPS. (I hope the battery will last with all the bells and whistles!)
Mark
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hey i started that thread on modaco!
yes the OS plays a small part in performance boost, wm6 is generally faster than wm5, but the main thing is the Qualcomm chip boosting the peformance.

Is it true that the Kaiser processor is dual-core?

I'm pretty sure I saw that on the side of the box at an AT&T store (it was far from me behind the counter though), but I've have never heard this about this phone before. Is the performance increase over the Tytn very noticeable to this effect?

stpete111 said:
I'm pretty sure I saw that on the side of the box at an AT&T store (it was far from me behind the counter though), but I've have never heard this about this phone before. Is the performance increase over the Tytn very noticeable to this effect?
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There's nothing on the device, the HTC box or the Internets that leads me to believe that that's true.
I just saw a news.com story a couple of days ago (cant find the link though) about dual-core devices.
There's no noticible speed increas on the Kaiser.
Also, see this:http://www.pocketnow.com/index.php?a=portal_detail&t=news&id=4554
s

Nope, but there are seperate CPU's the 2nd one runs the radio. Doesn't help WM6 speed, mabe it unloads it a little.

The side of the box DOES say dual core
I would scan the side of the box "Att White label reads ...400 mhz dual core processor..."but i dont need to prove it, do the research...even though it is prob. a marketing scheme!

shaharprish said:
There's nothing on the device, the HTC box or the Internets that leads me to believe that that's true.
I just saw a news.com story a couple of days ago (cant find the link though) about dual-core devices.
There's no noticible speed increas on the Kaiser.
Also, see this:http://www.pocketnow.com/index.php?a=portal_detail&t=news&id=4554
s
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Regarding speed, you say there's no noticable speed increase on the Kaiser. I'd disagree there, the first and most enduring thing I have noticed is a speed increase (untweaked) compared with a heavily tweaked (for max speed) Hermes. That said though, that increase is not across the board in all applications.
Regarding whether it's dual core or not - well it just depends what you mean. Not perhaps dual core as we might normally think of it but rather a double processor function with seperate handling of some functions. That has advantages and dedicates processing to specific functions. In any case of course dual core is a much over hyped concept and for example a quad core can still be slower than a double or single processor. Much of this whole idea about cores is misleading and panders to those unenlihghtened folk who assume that the more cores you have the faster things will be. Very crudely put would you rather a dual 100 mhz core processor or a single 400mhz processor?
Mike

Its got one processor for PDA function and another for 3g... which actually means worse battery consumption... I heard HTC etc are working on a combined processor
And to answer the poster above, it actually depends what jobs I was asking the device to do...

unwired4 said:
And to answer the poster above, it actually depends what jobs I was asking the device to do...
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Exactly, a wise answer.
Mike

There's a lot of talk about this subject, and from an architecture standpoint it depends on how you define "dual core". In modern terms, it means two processors with identical functions packaged together. However, that's only true of the last couple of years.
Back in the days of the 386, a separate processor was required to do floating point math. This co-processor (the FPU) was built into the die of the 486 chip. In the days of the Pentium Pro, the cache chip and its supporting logic was on-die, then removed in the Pentium II, then re-integrated in the Pentium III. The Athlon64 chip took the memory controller, formerly in a separate chip, and put it on-die to increase performance. The next generation Intel mobile processors will have an integrated GPU chip in the CPU (and AMD/Cyrix did the same several years ago). In the strictest definition, all of these are "systems on a chip" (SoCs) and are "multi-core" processors, as they take the functionality of two chips ("cores"), and integrate them into one.
The question is, when does a processor that can accelerate multiple functions simultanesously stop being "multi-core" and start being a processor that has a function built in?
The Quallcomm 7200 and 7500 SoCs have several "co-processors" built in. There's one for graphics, one for GPS, one for the radio, etc. Saying it's "multi-core" by modern standards is a stretch, but it does indeed have dedicated processor acceleration for various processor tasks. It's more in line with how some of the above examples work than "true" multi-processing like a Core Duo or Athlon X2 work, but it's there.

He's right, the side of the Tilt box says "QUALCOMM(r) Dual Core 400 Mhz Processor"
Pretty misleading. 2nd core doesn't operate at 400 Mhz, either (290-something, I think)
DLD

well I can say that coming from a wizard (200 mhz) ran everything to my kaiser (260 or 290 for the phone and 400 for everything else) its an incredible diference. on the wizard hit the hang up button 20-30 times LITERALLY and then it wil finally disconnect hit the hang up botton on the kaiser no mater what ur running it disconnects instantly. and I know its definitely capable of running games much quicker than my my wizard. also keep in mind the wizard was overclocked 252 with every tweak and the kaiser is stock.

A good discusion, if you look at Intel's roadmap they are heading in the direction of having 'core acceleration'. Theye are designing seperate cores for different tasks, so if you want a sql server you would have a core that's dedicated to windows, one dedicated to storage, and one that's dedicated to sql... or something like that...
But hey when you have 80cores in a processor you can specialise them I suppose.

Yeah, finally picked up the Tilt yesterday and what I thought I saw is what I definitely saw, as confirmed by exzist and RacerX earlier in the thread. Definitely an interesting discussion as to what that really does mean.

Overclocking the Diamond

The way overclocking my original Touch helped with the lags due to the TouchFlo cube got me thinking: is it possible to overclock the Diamond beyond 528MHz? I heard before that Qualcomm processors were un-overclockable? Is this still valid? If not, how can I overclock my Diamond and what are the risks?

Blimey, how much hotter do we want the Diamond to get!
Methinks the battery isn't really up to it either...

It is hot but we need to acknowledge that it does lag sometimes.
A better battery is coming out in the near future (1350mAh) so I'm guessing we should consider overclocking.

I think the Processor is plenty fast enough . Its the operating system and a plugin that is causing the lag .
If you run the device without the 3d pluggin its very quick. Its just that the operating system is enhanced to the hardware but the pluggin is not as intergrated so will never run as fast

Count me in on anything that has the word:
Overclocking Like my insanely smoothly running Overclocked Vista Ultimate Machine!

wardy said:
I think the Processor is plenty fast enough . Its the operating system and a plugin that is causing the lag .
If you run the device without the 3d pluggin its very quick. Its just that the operating system is enhanced to the hardware but the pluggin is not as intergrated so will never run as fast
Click to expand...
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I understand that if WM 6.1 runs smoothly on a 201MHz TI-OMAP processor, it will fly on a 528MHz processor. The point is to get TouchFlo3D to integrate that greatly with the remainder of the OS since it is the most appealing feature of the device. I think that upping the processor to say 650MHz would largely facilitate this.

no no no boys I think that more usefull will be underclock processor for better battery life when you didnt need so much performance...automated state will be the BEST!!! so try to think in this direction...

kultus said:
no no no boys I think that more usefull will be underclock processor for better battery life when you didnt need so much performance...automated state will be the BEST!!! so try to think in this direction...
Click to expand...
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I'm waiting for this option as well

is it ppossible to oc the touch diamond? and what program do i need?
i would really like to oc it!!

Bunch of fools :/ Overclocking a phone that already has overheating issues AND battery life issues.

Am I correct in thinking that there are other devices with the same processor running at 400mhz, if so the speed must be scalable? I agree that the diamond is quick already but if the speed was scalable like battery status with the TI omap I had in my old Artemis, then the battery should last longer since usually it would be running underclocked.

i will buy external bat. is there any program for oc touch diamond

kultus said:
no no no boys I think that more usefull will be underclock processor for better battery life when you didnt need so much performance...automated state will be the BEST!!! so try to think in this direction...
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Valid point. I guess the software that will overclock the Diamond will also allow underclocking so the goal is the same.
ljames28 said:
Bunch of fools :/ Overclocking a phone that already has overheating issues AND battery life issues.
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An extended battery is on the way and I haven't encountered any overheating issues yet. You better check your facts before calling everyone fools.
Apparently there isn't any such software available given that nobody has made suggestions concerning the availabilty of such software yet.

http://www.batteryupgrade.se/produc...9&PHP5SESSID=fe2844f3866fcfcdecb1881ab80afa2d
1800 mAh battery

so no software for now?
do you think it will be avilable one day?

I hope so but I think the problem is that most Qualcomm processors have fast enough clocks so the incentive for developers to look into the problem isn't that great.
Actually, how much resources are required to develop such an application? We could start raising funds to that end.
mennotheman said:
http://www.batteryupgrade.se/produc...9&PHP5SESSID=fe2844f3866fcfcdecb1881ab80afa2d
1800 mAh battery
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Yeah. I know about this one but I also heard that GPS doesn't work well when it's on.

mennotheman said:
http://www.batteryupgrade.se/produc...9&PHP5SESSID=fe2844f3866fcfcdecb1881ab80afa2d
1800 mAh battery
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are you joking I bought Diamond because of dims and weight...If I ll want thick basta*d I ll buy HTC touch Pro muhehe or better stay with my Kaiser

Double post

I could have sworn that the processor in the diamond is UNDERCLOCKED as standard, and does not even run at 528Mhz..
If true, probably a decision to conserve battery since 900mAH is bugger all.
Also, again if this is true, you could probably assume it could at least be clocked to 528Mhz which would speed it up, at least make a difference from what were all used to.
Even with TouchFLO3D disabled, I find the Diamond to be not as responsive as other (much older) WinMo devices, this just does not seem to make any sense. An underclocked CPU would explain a lot of things, IMO.
The question is, how can we find out the truth?

with some software like cpu-z for pc.
are there programs for oc other htc products?

Overclocking the Diamond to 700mhz

just wondering if its possible?
528mhz stock..i know we dont really need the speed
but it would be nice to have the option

juz a friendly warning bro,overclocking is very dangerous.

very very risky on phones, i wouldn't recommend it at all!

also overclocking the cpu will likely just
help a tiny bit because of the other bottlenecks
in the system like ram and flash and io speeds
and overclocking will result in a flat batt pretty fast
suspect most speed inc people feel is purely placebo effect

I've overclockt my artemis and is a lot faster. I've used batterystatus. But i dont know if you can use this programme on a diamond.
Who will test it?

At the moment there exists no program to overclock the diamond.
So this discussion is useless.
TDO

There is a program though.
I don't know how efficient it is, because i'm not interested myself, since the Diamond already has an over-heating problem, I don't think it's wise to overclock it.
The program is called 'performance' and it is designed for Qualcom CPU, like the one Diamond is using.
Give it a try.
(I'm afraid there is only one frecuency avalaible, 660 mhz if i recall right, so, under 700)

The last discussion about "performance" has concluded with the conclusion that it's a fraud, or doesn't do anything at best.
about OC in general, I'm OC'ing everything I own that can be OC'ed. The performance differences are huge, and 99.99% of the time completely safe if you know what you're doing. KJAM OC'ed to 260mhz is one of the fastest devices out there, faster than TYTN, Kaiser or Diamond. The Athena OC'ed to 728mhz is exactly enough to notch up it's video and gaming performance so you can enjoy them. And of-course, my PC processor that came @1.8 Ghz and now running @2.8Ghz, gets quite a boost out of it.
Unfortunately, we probably can't OC the Diamond processor (at least not with any current software).

I think in the Diamond most of the cases CPU doesn't reach to 528Mhz anyway , I guess to save battery, I had b4 P3300 and tried to overclocking it, and saw how the battery becomes empty too fast..
So in the Diamond, specially with the poor battery no needs to overclocking it...

Taking advantage of Blackstone code?

Hi all,
Since the X1 hardware is so similar to Blackstone, is it possible to use what the Blackstone guys are doing to improve performance on the X1?
What I am most interested in is this: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=442712
BETA graphics drivers for improving OpenGL speed. There is also a benchmark thread in the Blackstone forums, do the same benchies work with X1? Could be useful to have a reference for which ROMs are actually fastest.
Just some thoughts, hope for a response from a guru!
-Oobly

So I was reading that thread...
Theres a faq there:
"..
Q: Are these solely for MSM720X devices?
A: Yes, since the files used only work with the MSM720X chipset. And not even ALL MSM720X chipsets.
Q: So, which devices are supported?
A: Currently only newer devices: the Kaiser, Polaris, Nike, Diamond and up. There MAY be more in the future though.
.."

here is my take on all this:
-the neo2007 work on xperia but i cant see any performance increase
-the xperia is running @400mhz not 528mhz like the HD or td2. so dont ever expect it to reach the same level of performance. i have tested many cooked roms on xperia and they all trail the HD or TD2 stock roms in application and multitasking performance

THE GRIZZ said:
here is my take on all this:
-the neo2007 work on xperia but i cant see any performance increase
-the xperia is running @400mhz not 528mhz like the HD or td2. so dont ever expect it to reach the same level of performance. i have tested many cooked roms on xperia and they all trail the HD or TD2 stock roms in application and multitasking performance
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
on the other hand, i (which are currently running Touch X 6.1 with various performance tweaks) find that the custom ROM that i'm currently using are faster and have better responce compared to a TD2 running on stock ROM that i've tested for 30 minutes in a store.
if that extra Mhz really matters, then it could always be unlocked using neurom. i did also tried neurom only to find that it decreases my battery life.
so i'm sticking with 400 mhz that lasts me 3-4 days than a 2 days 528mhz.
and no, i'm not biased just because i'm using an x1.

ejat said:
if that extra Mhz really matters, then it could always be unlocked using neurom. i did also tried neurom only to find that it decreases my battery life.
so i'm sticking with 400 mhz that lasts me 3-4 days than a 2 days 528mhz..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i tried using neurom but i could not overclock it to 528. if you can please let us now how. to test if it worked test with something like the core player or tcmp (both have benchmarking tools) and the game xtract.
both apps will give you real world performance and both perform clearly worse on my xperia then on td2
ohh and %20 less cpu speed will not double the battery life. the x1 has a nice big 1500mah battery

Thanks for the replies guys!
I always thought the xperia runs a 7200A processor at 528MHz...?? That's what all the spec sheets say at least.
About speed and battery life, increasing the CPU speed by 20% can certainly double power usage especially if it is an overclock. Both power usage and heat generated increase dramatically when overclocking CPU's in PC's and I don't expect it is any different with mobile CPU's.
I am disappointed by the benchmark results I see for xperia, but I really love the hardware layout and size. According to the specifications it should run faster than it seems to....

Any definitive answers about CPU clock speed? Anyone? From what I have read, the 7200 CPU runs at 400 and the 7200A at 528. The X1 has a 7200A and all the spec sheets I have seen and "official" specs say 528MHz.
Have we been screwed again by HTC? <--- referring to the 3D driver issue....