Related
The site is up and running, discussion here!
Frontpage is done, see http://www.htcclassaction.org/. Feel free to comment. None of the other pages on the site are done yet, though.
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
There isn't really a point to the petition, as companies don't really care. There probably isn't a big point with a class action lawsuit either, as it's entirely possible we won't win. It is something that should be investigated, as ultimately, it's just a way of applying pressure, getting publicity and raising awareness.
And nope, I'm not a former employee, but I am disgruntled by the way HTC is treating us.
Looks very good!
Vukile said:
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about people who already use their hard earned money and brought the device already?
jackleung said:
What about people who already use their hard earned money and brought the device already?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The most basic rule when buying a PDA: Only buy what you know youre getting, not what you think youre getting. I learnt that the hard way three years ago,its the same game all over. I think its an annual event.
Vukile said:
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe you should read the main thread before posting crap like this. There are plenty of people, including myself who think a class action suite would be a good idea. Even if we didn't win or had no real grounds for one, the negative feedback alone could cause HTC to do something about the driver support.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=339745
Vukile said:
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As Chainfire mentioned, petitions never work. This is because people eventually "cool off" and stop caring that they've been ripped off.
If I paid a lot less for my Kaiser, I wouldn't care as much that it's being outperformed by the older cheaper HTC models. We paid an arm and leg for these costly phones, we'd expect them to at least give us the basics (drivers).
How would you feel if you bought some fancy & expensive graphics board only to have to use the generic drivers that come with your OS?
Chainfire, great work. Let us know when you've set up the paypal account.
Oh, by the way, wonderful site Chainfire. It has all the info needed in one neatly organized site.
Excellent site Chainfire. If this is indicative of the effort you put into things, my previous (and future) donations have been well spent!! Very clear and to the point.
I posted a link on the "Proper video drivers...." sticky to a Google page tlaking about the bright new future of Android. Just wondered if it is worth highlighting to visitors to the site that HTC is one of the core companies developing this - perhaps if they realise HTC's attitude will affect more than just the current devices. Or maybe they won't care as most casual browsers don't know what Android is? Ah, I don't know.
Hey, if we draw public attention to all this, and then someone manages to address the issue here on XDA-devs, could that cause problems - infringment of copyright etc?
I don't understand the point of this petition, or a law suite for that matter. What do 99% of people do with their Kaisers anyway? There are lots of people around me where I work that use Windows smart phones and they are happy to get their push mail, GPS, bluetooth, whatever. I think they could care less about video drivers.
I'm not saying I wouldn't like to have some video acceleration, but most users probably could care less. We are the minority.
I think raising awareness is a great idea. Perhaps listing those manufactures that actually support their WinMo devices with proper drivers is even better, so potential buyers would know to spend their money else wehere.
I got my Kaiser as a Tilt from AT&T. I had 30 days to return it. I was given ample opportunity to play with it, install software, and make my complaint. I kept the device. No one was being forced to buy these things.
If you bought an unlocked Kaiser and spend a large bit of cash, well you take the first movers risk. No reason anyone couldn't wait to see what others though of the device before purchasing it.
You certainly can't will things into existence. Can't buy an HTC phone and wish into existence some drivers that it never had in the first place.
As much as I would like video acceleration, I'm not sure where it is that HTC specifically stated their would be some. GPS, pushmail, Pocket IE, it all pretty much works as expected. I understand that the qualcomm chipset may certainly be capable of video acceleration, but that doesn't mean that it was a specific feature that HTC was going after when it made the Kaiser.
I'm not trying to ruin anyones plans or desires to get the most out of their phones, but why not just not buy the phone?
I for one look forward to something like Android, so hobbiests and consumers can put the features they want to exploit in to place on phones like the Kaiser. I hope this drastically changes the market and gives us more choice in our software, and forces manufacturers to do more than the bare minimum with these devices.
-James
jmacdonald801 said:
As much as I would like video acceleration, I'm not sure where it is that HTC specifically stated their would be some.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, given older HTC devices never mentioned video acceleration in their specs either and that they're certainly performing better than the Kaiser, I think it's fair to expect performance which at the very least matches that of former models.
I got my Kaiser as a Tilt from AT&T. I had 30 days to return it. I was given ample opportunity to play with it, install software, and make my complaint. I kept the device. No one was being forced to buy these things...
...As much as I would like video acceleration, I'm not sure where it is that HTC specifically stated their would be some. GPS, pushmail, Pocket IE, it all pretty much works as expected. I understand that the qualcomm chipset may certainly be capable of video acceleration, but that doesn't mean that it was a specific feature that HTC was going after when it made the Kaiser.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hate to say it, but jmac makes very good points. Awareness is fine. Negative publicity might cause some action. but such a lawsuit isn't very winnable here since there were no real explicit promises broken here. Any "promises borken" were more hopes and expectations that were not made by the manufacturer.
But who knows, this being a very HTC centric forum, it could make them take a little notice, but most likely this isn't a winnable case.
jomo25 said:
I hate to say it, but jmac makes very good points. Awareness is fine. Negative publicity might cause some action. but such a lawsuit isn't very winnable here since there were no real explicit promises broken here. Any "promises borken" were more hopes and expectations that were not made by the manufacturer.
But who knows, this being a very HTC centric forum, it could make them take a little notice, but most likely this isn't a winnable case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehe, as stated elsewhere, it's mostly a pressure and publicity tool. In the end, if we do do the case, it doesn't even really matter if we win it. The publicity and awareness it will generate... There's the headology factor. People are happy using a gadget. People learn the gadget can do a lot more then it does. People are unhappy using the gadget. People complain about the gadget. Creator of gadget fixes gadget
Mark my words, if enough attention is given to this, HTC will do the right thing, if only to save face.
Great site so far Chainfire. I pray that this brings enough attention to move HTC to action. Without those drivers, I can compare this to buying a Corvette only to realize once on the road that the governor is set to 30mph.
Satus update
Status update:
The site is almost finished and uploaded, apart from the "Responses from HTC" section.
- Please read the 'drivers in detail' page and tell me what you think
- Please help me collect 'carrier branded' names of the devices in question
I have also setup a paypal address for donations for the AdWords campaign only, you can find a button on the "What you can do" page. I already put 100 euro's in there myself, and it's been getting extra visitors for almost an hour now.
Before I finish the "Responses from HTC" part, start submitting to slashdot, digg, etc, it's time for dinner
you might want to add the htc vogue/sprint touch to your list on htcclassaction.org, it suffers the same problem and i believe it has a similar chipset with the same 3d hardware.
i think htc will just say,well just because the chipset we use has 3d hardware built in doesn't mean we have to enable or support it because it was never advertised as such.
I'd have to download and extract a ROM to be sure though, I'll do that later.
jmacdonald801 said:
I don't understand the point of this petition, or a law suite for that matter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What he said...but I am a little under the influence right now. To be honest, my phone works for GPS, works for email, works for web browsing, sync's via activesync, plays movies just fine (no slider issues when adjusting sound), allows me to read ebooks, works with office mobile (though I would like to be able to save Word documents as .DOC files, not .DOCX). Guess I'm with the 99% because I really don't see any issues with the phone that cause me to get on a soapbox. I really don't care if this makes me unpopular, but I'm so sick of people coming on this forum and moaning about video driver issues. Show me one other device that does all the things that a Kaiser can do? iPhone, no GPS and limited open source unless you want to run the risk of bricking the device, Nokia? Please, I had the 9xxx series of communicators for years. I had the choice between the latest comunicator series or the Kaiser, I went with the Kaiser as Symbian sucked. The N95, QWERTY keyboard???
This phone is not designed as a graphics device, its a business tool. If you want DVD quality movies, buy a portable DVD player, graphic intensive games, get a PSP. I have a Nokia 2110 mobile from 10 years ago that can't handle MID files, a Garmin Sat-Nav the size of a house brick and a digital camera that uses 3.5" floppy discs cause memory cards hadn't been invented when it was launched. HTC have packed an MP3 player, sat-nav, laptop computer, digital camera, mobile phone (...the list goes on) inside a device the size of a packet of cigarettes. Personally I think this is amazing, lets give them a bit of credit for doing this!
[/drunk rant off...]
This is just my opinion....
Once in a while, a new mobile device comes along and sets imaginations and credit cards on fire. Something compelling, something new. The next big thing perhaps? How many of these devices can you remember from the past couple of years? A few? Now; just how many of these lived up to their full potential?
Go on, take a guess.
Zero.
Now don’t get me wrong here. When I say potential, I mean their hardware potential. Just because the end product is popular and sells well, it doesn’t mean it lives up to what it could be.
Consider the current driver issue with the HTC Tytn II. Many people are very unhappy with the performance of the video drivers. The device is very slow at redrawing the screen when the display is rotated. In some programs like Tomtom , it appears that the device absolutely struggles with motion on the screen. Others have complained about sub-par video playback performance.
A petition has been started, and I am sure by now HTC have received thousands of complaints from unhappy Tytn II owners. Everyone is asking for the same thing; a set of drivers that can use the new Qualcomm hardware to its full advantage. HTC even mentions the capabilities of the new Qualcomm MSM7500™ and MSM7200™ chipsets in their press release. The press release even states that the TYTN II is based on the new dual core chipset. Yet the overall performance just doesn’t seem to compare to the manufacturers claims.
HTC’s response has been rather subdued. Their approach seems to have changed a little. At first, they didn’t seem concerned and suggested that the device worked as advertised, i.e.: it could play videos but it was essentially designed as a business tool. Only after many complaints had been made did they listen and start taking information for the performance related issues, not just the video playback.
So why won’t they develop and release the drivers as so many people have requested? Simple answer really:
Long term profit. Let me explain.
The TYTN II is one of the first HTC devices to feature the new Qualcomm chipset. Compare it to the other HTC devices that have the same Qualcomm chipset, none of their specifications are quite the same. Each device is the first generation on the new chipset for its particular niche.
We are, essentially, beta testers. We buy the latest technology, use it heavily, complain about the bugs and report our findings back to the manufacturer via blog posts, reviews and complaints. It doesn’t need to be direct feedback; the internet is full of corporate trolls. Whatever you mention about their device, no matter where it is, chances are it has been read by one of these trolls. We can’t help it; we all like to express our opinions and frustrations. Its fun discussing options and troubleshooting with others on forums and websites. The most serious complaints are taken down, and over the next couple of revisions (e.g.: Tytn III?) they are generally ironed out.
This is why the drivers are not coming. HTC are banking on those who are frustrated with their device not living up to its potential, to upgrade and buy the successor. Not the best business method by a long shot, however thanks to early adopters and geeks, it’s a profitable one.
Oh, but you won’t ever, ever buy another HTC device again? Yes, you probably will. So will I. I found it quite amusing reading posts about the new Sony Ericsson Xperia X1. Many people said that they would buy it over a HTC device, but the fact is it IS a HTC device. My bet is it will sell like hotcakes, however I bet there will be some issues that will mean it won’t live up to its full potential. Sure, the issues cited with the Tytn II (and other early HTC Qualcomm devices) will be addressed.
The introduction of new features leaves the door open for new issues. We will discuss these issues. The trolls will read these issues. The issues will be addressed in the next generation of handsets. When it comes time for a new chipset, expect a bunch of new issues and complaints to arise.
It’s the circle of consumerism.
My next device won't even be a WM one, let alone HTC's junk. I've had enough of all the stupid problems with either the hardware or the OS. Next time my contract rolls around for renewal, I'm gonna buy a plain and simple Nokia just for calls.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=368108 a proper windows mobile phone bye bye htc once my damn contract on this stupid phone ends *shakes fist*
Until such time as it's on the market and proven to be what it claims, I'll consider it just so much marsh gas; much like HTC's promises.
FloatingFatMan said:
My next device won't even be a WM one, let alone HTC's junk. I've had enough of all the stupid problems with either the hardware or the OS. Next time my contract rolls around for renewal, I'm gonna buy a plain and simple Nokia just for calls.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
definitely my way too
Are there any known MSM7xxx phones that have the video acceleration?
My suspicion is that the following happened:
HTC was one of the first manufacturers to use the MSM7xxx series
3D acceleration was a "growth feature" that needed development and HTC wanted to get the device out the door and add the video acceleration later
Broadcom sues Qualcomm over patent infringement in the MSM7xxx series
Broadcom wins suit and Qualcomm is served with an injunction forbidding it to sell or even support infringing chipsets
HTC is screwed because their vendor is now legally forbidden from providing them the support they need to implement accelerated video
HTC also does not hint at the real reason for the drivers not existing for political and/or contractual reasons
HTC's "buy a future device" comment means "we need to find something that isn't covered by the Broadcom injunction against Qualcomm"
Entropy512 said:
Are there any known MSM7xxx phones that have the video acceleration?
My suspicion is that the following happened:
HTC was one of the first manufacturers to use the MSM7xxx series
3D acceleration was a "growth feature" that needed development and HTC wanted to get the device out the door and add the video acceleration later
Broadcom sues Qualcomm over patent infringement in the MSM7xxx series
Broadcom wins suit and Qualcomm is served with an injunction forbidding it to sell or even support infringing chipsets
HTC is screwed because their vendor is now legally forbidden from providing them the support they need to implement accelerated video
HTC also does not hint at the real reason for the drivers not existing for political and/or contractual reasons
HTC's "buy a future device" comment means "we need to find something that isn't covered by the Broadcom injunction against Qualcomm"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, everything you said makes perfect sense.
Chances of Kaiser getting video drivers - ZERO
Although I respect your opinion, and you are probably right, I have to say that making HTC develop/release drivers is just one of the paths we are exploring. I believe in our case it is essential to explore every possible opportunity to get Kaiser to use it's hardware 100%. That includes lawsuit, 3rd party developing drivers, ripping drivers from another device, getting SDK from ATi/Qualcomm, etc etc.
Whatever it takes - we must explore it... even if it sounds crazy or unlikely. Besdies... it's not like we have to pay cash for every opportunity that doesn't work.
FloatingFatMan said:
My next device won't even be a WM one, let alone HTC's junk. I've had enough of all the stupid problems with either the hardware or the OS. Next time my contract rolls around for renewal, I'm gonna buy a plain and simple Nokia just for calls.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here...
DarkDvr said:
Although I respect your opinion, and you are probably right, I have to say that making HTC develop/release drivers is just one of the paths we are exploring. I believe in our case it is essential to explore every possible opportunity to get Kaiser to use it's hardware 100%. That includes lawsuit, 3rd party developing drivers, ripping drivers from another device, getting SDK from ATi/Qualcomm, etc etc.
Whatever it takes - we must explore it... even if it sounds crazy or unlikely. Besdies... it's not like we have to pay cash for every opportunity that doesn't work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely! I would love to see one of the developers here sort out drivers, or see the drivers ripped from another device work. I have my doubts that it will happen, however it would be fantastic to be proven wrong.
Has their been any real progress towards a solution as yet though? I'm not trying to sound too negative (even if thats not how it sounds..) I've read about the LG driver rip that works / doesnt work depending on who you listen to. Has there been any proven progress to date with either developing or obtaining an SDK?
Many seem to think the Kaiser won't ever get the missing drivers. I'm a bit more optimistic in this point. I still hope that - if not HTC - at least members of this forum are some day able to (re-)engineer the necessary drivers. Am I only dreamer or what do you think? Is it that unlikely that it will happen?
Hey... I just went to Vodafone store and tried the LG KS20, i think it has the same hardware as the tytn 2 (check http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=pdacomparer&id1=733&id2=825 to compare), but doesn't looks like it suffers from the same problems as the tytn. I tried the camera and isn't more slow than a regular phone camera? Might be a solution of the problem? I don't know but it's worth checking it...
LG KS20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQEsjzHgnpA&feature=related
Shows video performance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U-w1oTQ3BA&feature=related
If Broadcomm are the ones that will prevent support, then why do XDA or HTC not approach Broadcomm for assistance instead? That may be an avenue which may yield more positive responses than going after HTC.
Pummy said:
If Broadcomm are the ones that will prevent support, then why do XDA or HTC not approach Broadcomm for assistance instead? That may be an avenue which may yield more positive responses than going after HTC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only Broadcomm IP in the Qualcomm chip is the technique for power backoff when there's no signal. It's like asking Honda how to get your Toyota engine to work.
Regardless of HTC's intent on this issue, the fact is they are building a "perception", at least in this forum, of poor customer support/response. This can be seen by the hyper-attention it receives at XDA. Is it justified? Some say yes, some say no. Personally, the biggest issue I have is with the lagging camera and the slow autofocus. I can't get my daughter too sit still long enough to let the camera to focus on her and get the shot I want. I can live with the slow screen rotation and even the laggy video playback. To be honest, I never expected super gaming or video from a QVGA screen... but that's just me.
That being said, perception becomes reality without response or action. HTC is playing an ill-advised hand if they think people will just buy their next product and just forget about their Kaiser/Tilt experience. This is coming from an unsatisfied ex-Axim owner.
NuShrike said:
The only Broadcomm IP in the Qualcomm chip is the technique for power backoff when there's no signal. It's like asking Honda how to get your Toyota engine to work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did not know that. Looks like I will need to start reading up on the case and settlement.
As mad as I am that the drivers are not there, my tilt still blowes away my previous device, I hope for a fix, but until then I will be scoping my new device as with my last and the one before. Yes HTC will not be my prefered option, but then I will base that on what is available at the next upgrade time.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=355345&page=35
There may.. MAY come a time where we'll all actually thank and appologize to HTC, hehe. Judging by the latest article (insider interview) and supposed Peter Chou emails.. Qualcomm may be the one to blame in this, and HTC is as much of a victim of Qualcomm's hopeful lies as we are.
I'm not saying that it's true, I'm just saying that'd be a really interesting turn of events
I feel like I'm reading a crime mystery hehe.
Hi
There may.. MAY come a time where we'll all actually thank and appologize to HTC, hehe. Judging by the latest article (insider interview) and supposed Peter Chou emails.. Qualcomm may be the one to blame in this, and HTC is as much of a victim of Qualcomm's hopeful lies as we are.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This may be true however ultimately HTC still misled it's customers using the Qualcomm feature set in PR, specifications and marketing releases. HTC will have known they were shipping the phones without the necessary drivers, but of course it would be too costly to hold back all their new models or redesign the phones around a different chipset, so they went ahead and sold them hoping no one would really notice!
HTC are making huge profits on the back of mis-advertising their latest products so it's hard for me to give very much sympathy if any at all to them They still have not made any official statement or apology to their customers, except for a rather cold and clinical statement to their shareholders. Yes I know various websites have comments from HTC regarding the matter but none of this has been put officially on their website and is just viral marketing, using the same tricks that got them in this mess in the first place.
Regards
Phil
As pointed out by DarkDvr the content of this thraed is now crossing with the content in at least two other threads:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show...355345&page=35
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=359534
Please use one of them to continue any discussion.
Thank you
Mike
Just curious. What's your thoughts? Will either HTC or Qualcom fix the video driver with the Kaiser? As the end of March approaches with no fix from HTC, it's starting to look grim......
I voted yes, but it isn't that clear cut...
HTC/Qualcom will release a driver for another device which will be ported to the kaiser.
ETA? late fall/early 2009.
so technically HTC/Qualcom is going to fix it, but indirectly...which can probably considered not fixing it...
anyways, i ramble, and the topic is redundant, therefore i bid it farewell before an admin closes it.
yeah I think you need to change the title to "will the driver issue be fixed by HTC"
The fix is going to come, but only when the good people @xda extract it from some device that'll be realeased in the forseeable future.
What do you think is the touchscreen bug going to be fixed with it?
I would hope they do but one can only dream... By then I will be using the X1. Wait, made by HTC also... Forget it.....
mchapman007 said:
I would hope they do but one can only dream... By then I will be using the X1. Wait, made by HTC also... Forget it.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hear you. I got excited about the X1 as well...until I saw that it's made by HTC. Although won't it be Sony who controls what software is on it? Still though, I won't hold my breath.....
It will, but probably a lot later than we expect. We'll probably have to wait for someone to get on it, or for a release of a similar device with drivers, so we can rip them out of it.
I'd say a year or so..
is it up to us?
Just wondering, is it up to our opinions or wishful thinking, if the driver issue will be fixed?
Cheers...
Fared said:
I voted yes, but it isn't that clear cut...
HTC/Qualcom will release a driver for another device which will be ported to the kaiser.
ETA? late fall/early 2009.
so technically HTC/Qualcom is going to fix it, but indirectly...which can probably considered not fixing it...
anyways, i ramble, and the topic is redundant, therefore i bid it farewell before an admin closes it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly
No fix for our device. but maybe something which will port over, sometime after we've all upgraded to something else which wont work properly....
I love technology!
neither will fix it because they already have your money - they didnt just drop the ball, they put it down carefully and walked off.
my magic 8 ball says a definate maybe.
Who knows? They might...they might. Eitherway, everyone here is going to get another, better phone im 6 months.
I think once that SE X1 phone is released using the qualcomm chip, its bound to be fixed, idk how they think they can manage to get a smoothe UI and playback without the drivers. they will be included in some future 7xxx device.
I voted "Not a chance" because there was no option for "I don't care."
I put not a chance. Given the number of tweakers here....this group will, for the most part, never be satisfied with the response from HTC.
The driver will come about 2 weeks after everyone has upgraded the next latest and greatest thing, just in time for it to not be needed....................
HTC already released the fix. But Steve Jobs began ddosing their website and forced them to take it offline.
I voted no.
I wish my tilt's camera functioned like the N95 lol...wait then it would be the perfect phone...
I believe that even if HTC doesn't resolve it, someone else will. Having said that, nothing I've used my Tilt for has been impacted by this issue, so I probably wouldn't notice the difference that a new driver would make.
Not a chance.
Logically why would they? The promised a "fix" and it achieved 100% of its goals in that everyone shutup and went away to wait.
btw: Notice the choice of the "end of March". Far enough to waste time - not too far to make people crack on with the lawsuit.
It doesn't exist and never will. Straight out of the microsoft school of vapourware that one.
March will go and maybe april. Someone MIGHT say something. They will apologise, blame some "technical problem" and say the fix will be "soon". Another few months will go by and then everyone will have new phones and voila the problem goes away.
Time is NOT on our side. These products have a VERY finite shelf-life and HTC knows this. I'm sure it is one of the reasons they rushed it out sans-drivers in the first place. We are already talking about a device that is 6 months old.
First adopters are half-way through a 12 month contract!
So: As you may guess I voted for not a chance. And now apathy has got me and I would say I don't care. Never buying HTC again though!
There are existing threads on this subject. USE THEM.
This thread is in any case adding nothing to our understanding, as it's based on guess work - sadly.
We all want a conclusion on this issue but starting another thread is not helping us, but is just another opportunity to fight amongst ourselves.
Mike
Hi Guys,
This is probably the best PDA forum. HTC should pay all you guys for creating this great forum for its overrated mobile.
TyTN II was the most $ I have ever spent on a mobile. With the price I pay, I could get a decent dual core laptop. But I wanted all things in one gadget and the news on TyTN II prior to its launch have made this mobile my dream mobile.
I was weary of the slow CPU speed. But after reading Qualcomm's specification of its CPU, that it is a dual core chip, I forced myself to believe that it will be faster than my old PDA that runs on Intel PXA270, 416MHZ. Unfortunately, I was mislead.
Sure, the TyTN II is stable, but I need to wait for 1-2 secs for it to register my command and than to react is totally not acceptable, especially I paid so much $ for it.
As for the Video, the first time I experienced, at best, the still moving pictures from an avi file had caused me great concern that my TyTn II is faulty. But now we all know that that phone is working under perfectly fine condition. Seriously, who has time to encode avi file down so that it can be viewed on TyTn II. I brought this phone to assist me and make my life more convenient, not the opposite.
So finally, I am trading in this phone at 64% of its original price (I have only used this phone for 5 months) for either Asus P750 or Gsmart MS800. I have ordered both of these new phones with the store for inspection and to make my final decision.
I am also frustrated with its inability to record telephone calls, which is one of necessary function for my job. I have spoken to a HTC sales and he told me that it is for privacy reason that they have make such a restriction. This is a load of BS. All large phone companies such as Nokia, SE, LG, and Moto have such a function.
Hope that I will also be able to find a native forum as good as this for Asus P750 or Gsmart MS800.
AND, I will never (during my time on earth) buy another HTC phone again... and I will certainly spread the word to all my friends not to buy any HTC phone either. HTC is good at make its first time customer its last time customer.
Guys, seriously, do you still believe that there is hope for the video driver or video improvement for HTC???
Get a life. Good luck with your new phone. Maybe they will have the video drivers you are looking for. We need to make a Sub Forum called "People Who ***** About HTC Products and Video Drivers"
goodbye, enjoy your new phone
honestly if anyone is tired of their kaiser, pls just sell it and leave, no need to whine about it or say goodbye. we really wont miss you at all.
all of us still holding on to our kaisers may be stupid from ur point of view, but we are all trying to make it work, hence the name xda-developers, not xda-whiners. if you dont like ur kaiser, sure you are entitled to your opinion, but ppl who choose to stay, dont really care, so just sell of your phone, piss off, and dont bother anyone. we dont really care to know what you feel about your device
well thx for telling us how u feel but we dont really care...its not like we're gonna follow suit cuz of u...research or try it out before u spend "so much $" on it...and whether new drivers are coming...who knows maybe or maybe not...this phone being not suitable to u doesnt mean it sucks or its bad in any way...just go get ur phone which suits u best...and live on
well... what more can I say..?
bye bye...
FYI, it's 'wary', not 'weary'. Good luck.
Seems like you want someone to sympathize. Pick one of the following responses:
1. Awww poor baby. There there.
2. I'll join you in abandoning HTC products.
(disclaimer: meh)
Good luck. and hope you can find the right PDA.
Tell it Wayne...
One whiner less....
This is nothing personal, but people are tired of new whining threads... plz just go and leave us alone with the whining.
If your friends belive the $ you talk it's their problem. Noone here cares if your friends like HTC or not. It doesn't matter for most if HTC sales some phones less or not. I still dont geht the point of such threads...
U think HTC will read this? U think it gets better if you buy a new one? Sry but every phones has it's issues... everything... here it is a video driver, other phones als cheaply manufactured, some have other bugs. There is nothing perfect. So wake up! The world is unfair.
Guys I am sorry but there is someone who tells us what he is doing now.
I believe HTC will never release the new drivers and at least they should see that people are selling the device now and will buy other brand in the future.
HP h4150 (best device I ever had)
Magican (it was fantastic but not that fast as the h4150)
TyTn1 (was ****)
Trinity (same **** like TyTn1, color pealing blahh blahh. but at least smaller)
now this stupid Kaiser (good device but not ready for the market)
I have bought 4 devices from HTC and only one was that what I am expecting to get.
And now you Guys are blaming him because he tells in a open letter what he will do?
Nice one!
HTC cheaters
I agree with the first post of this thread.
lot of people are addicted to flashing roms (me too), the fact that Kaiser is a disaster will never be acknowledged bec we have paid good amount for this and we refuse to give up or accept the facts. Till how long, will this go on. when will HTC be made to change their attitude, an attitude of taking consumers for granted, show me any hardware of their's which is perfect, either the speaker or camera will let u down. people who have criticized the first post should realise that people didnt go out to buy a phone with bad camera, speaker and display issues. Fact is we all have been duped by HTC. and if people here think things can be solved by xda everytime so lets buy htc, then its not right. I hope someday XDA dev manufacture a great phone , probably it will be the perfect phone.
gqstatus0685 said:
Get a life. Good luck with your new phone. Maybe they will have the video drivers you are looking for. We need to make a Sub Forum called "People Who ***** About HTC Products and Video Drivers"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unnecessary! It's a forum for people to voice their opinions and thats all he was doing. Fine, if you don't agree with his post, thats up to you but it's like my parents used to tell me "If you don't have anything nice to say.... don't say anything at all"
This is kind of one of the reasons why I try not to post here too much. Too many people all wanting to jump down someones throat when they disagree with a post, r the reason for posting. It's not just here, it's the same with any forum you go to. It's sad really.
Even though you think he's whining, it doesn't get better with the negative answers you give him. He just tells us he's made a choice.
The rudeness to him in the following posts is not worthy of an xda-developer.
Stay friendly.
viewedit said:
I agree with the first post of this thread.
lot of people are addicted to flashing roms (me too), the fact that Kaiser is a disaster will never be acknowledged bec we have paid good amount for this and we refuse to give up or accept the facts. Till how long, will this go on. when will HTC be made to change their attitude, an attitude of taking consumers for granted, show me any hardware of their's which is perfect, either the speaker or camera will let u down. people who have criticized the first post should realise that people didnt go out to buy a phone with bad camera, speaker and display issues. Fact is we all have been duped by HTC. and if people here think things can be solved by xda everytime so lets buy htc, then its not right. I hope someday XDA dev manufacture a great phone , probably it will be the perfect phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ag, shamepies,
Maybe HTC will provide live feeds from Mars too.
Or maybe better yet, a device that will record your blood pressure and hot & cold running water at the same time!
Oh, maybe even better, a device that will also double as a BMI scale and also have a built-in HIV monitor and blood-group detector!!!
Grow up!!
This has truly become the Cheese & WHINE forum!!!
MACkjam said:
Ag, shamepies,
Maybe HTC will provide live feeds from Mars too.
Or maybe better yet, a device that will record your blood pressure and hot & cold running water at the same time!
Oh, maybe even better, a device that will also double as a BMI scale and also have a built-in HIV monitor and blood-group detector!!!
Grow up!!
This has truly become the Cheese & WHINE forum!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is YOUR contribution to xda-developers exactly?
even if i dont't mind if anybody has a kaiser, sells a kaiser, buys a kaiser or sleeps with his kaiser, i think such threads might not be useless.
if many people make it clear that they leave HTC and why they sell their phones maybe HTC realizes that their way to treat customers was wrong.
rhov23 said:
What is YOUR contribution to xda-developers exactly?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Firstly, I've helped a few people here and there. Secondly I've been here a little longer than you even if I haven't posted much.
And yours???
MACkjam said:
Firstly, I've helped a few people here and there. Secondly I've been here a little longer than you even if I haven't posted much.
And yours???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well length of membership really isn't anything to go by, I could have signed up to be a member yesterday and could be a total guru (im not though )
Look, lets just play nice ok? Its a public forum for people to publish their opinions. Lets not turn this into yet another bashing thread.
foobar1977 said:
Well length of membership really isn't anything to go by, I could have signed up to be a member yesterday and could be a total guru (im not though )
Look, lets just play nice ok? Its a public forum for people to publish their opinions. Lets not turn this into yet another bashing thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree. Thanks
MACkjam said:
Firstly, I've helped a few people here and there. Secondly I've been here a little longer than you even if I haven't posted much.
And yours???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Made iTask, and made a lot of skins for various programs.
Guyz... Just came across this blog where MS is giving some estimated time frame that you can expect the NoDo or Copy/Paste update to your specific device.
This link is specific to the US devices: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphone/en-us/features/update-schedule-usa.aspx
HD7 Device shows up as "Scheduling". They also claim the status would be updated weekly. So go check it out.
This is the link to the Blog: http://windowsteamblog.com/windows_.../2011/03/23/copy-and-paste-update-status.aspx
I've been holding it in and am a huge supporter. This isn't going to be constructive at all but, **** MSFT AND THE CARRIERS!! It's MSFT fault either way. If the carriers are delaying release of the updates, then they should have enough nuts to say something and get it done. Hell, show them the predicted results of what happens to your market share when they piddle around and piss off customers. I've been one since I bought my Motorola MPX 220 and Ipaq Pocket PC. I've done nothing but brag about WM since it's inception. Posted facts about WM on my Facebook page to shut up people about Apple and them being the first smartphone. And now I'm just plain fed the **** UP!! Sorry to rant, but I could actually keep going. NO custom ringtones, NO Mass Storage, NO multitasking for an alarm clock that doesn't suck, NO threaded email or single email inbox, NO....you fill in the blank now. And I was excusing all these things due to my faith that MSFT will get with the program pretty quickly. Looks like it's time to fix my HD2's screen or buy a freaking Android phone until MSFT catches up in 2015!
I agree. I am so pissed at the way MS is trying to push this update. If MS can define hardware limitations, they could very well define the update rules to the carriers. I think MS should grow a pair and tell the manufacturers/carriers to push the update all at once its ready.
This is so frustrating. No doubt Apple is the master of delivering the updates. In fact, Apple does not even have to announce a software update, every one knows they can expect one every year in March/April.
I thought MS would have learnt something good when they launched WP7.
"Push updates in Batches" my Ass.
It's MSFT fault either way
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You sure about that or are you just itching to point an unnecessary finger at MS??
Hell, show them the predicted results of what happens to your market share when they piddle around and piss off customers. I've been one since I bought my Motorola MPX 220 and Ipaq Pocket PC. I've done nothing but brag about WM since it's inception.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow... all that and THIS is what gets to you. You waded through all the other stuff, You go back to about 2003 with MS you finally get a FAR SUPERIOR device and this minor wait is doing it??
Come the hell on.
NO custom ringtones, NO Mass Storage, NO multitasking for an alarm clock that doesn't suck, NO threaded email or single email inbox, NO....you fill in the blank now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the rest of us are going to need a life raft just to avoid drowning in your silly-ass tears.
Ya know, I think it's big of MS ot post the fact that the carriers are the ones holding **** up. Who else does that?
If MS can define hardware limitations, they could very well define the update rules to the carriers. I think MS should grow a pair and tell the manufacturers/carriers to push the update all at once its ready.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hold on there pard'ner. You are talking about two VERY different entities. MS, and manufcturers are ALL at the mercy of carriers.
No doubt Apple is the master of delivering the updates. In fact, Apple does not even have to announce a software update, every one knows they can expect one every year in March/April.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So... one update a year, then a new phone later that year (or so) and they are "masters" at this?? The ****... seriously?!?
I have a solution for everyone one Apple or Android. But don't forget your hankys 'cuz you will have PLENTY to ***** about there too.
Kthxbye!
Hi Everyone,
Not sure if this has already been posted but here is a schedule for people OUTSIDE the U.S. as well...
http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2011...pdate-status-carriers-countries-and-devices/#
Not 100% sure on the acuracy of it but I hope it helps...
Sean D. said:
You sure about that or are you just itching to point an unnecessary finger at MS??
wow... all that and THIS is what gets to you. You waded through all the other stuff, You go back to about 2003 with MS you finally get a FAR SUPERIOR device and this minor wait is doing it??
Come the hell on.
I think the rest of us are going to need a life raft just to avoid drowning in your silly-ass tears.
Ya know, I think it's big of MS ot post the fact that the carriers are the ones holding **** up. Who else does that?
Hold on there pard'ner. You are talking about two VERY different entities. MS, and manufcturers are ALL at the mercy of carriers.
So... one update a year, then a new phone later that year (or so) and they are "masters" at this?? The ****... seriously?!?
I have a solution for everyone one Apple or Android. But don't forget your hankys 'cuz you will have PLENTY to ***** about there too.
Kthxbye!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have HD2 running android and have less to complain about then with WP7.
I also have HD7 with half an OS on it. It reminds me it is half an OS as each time I want to do something there is no option for it or it says no.
WP7 has potential but the way it is going that's where it is going to stay till XDA developers hack it.
Name smartphone was invented for a reason, it was to be used with phones that were "smarter" then average mobile. Had plenty of functions where everyone could find what they need. Current range of WP7 phones, Apple phones are a retarded version of smartphone but that only makes it an average phone, just huge!!!
Sean D. said:
So... one update a year, then a new phone later that year (or so) and they are "masters" at this?? The ****... seriously?!?
I have a solution for everyone one Apple or Android. But don't forget your hankys 'cuz you will have PLENTY to ***** about there too.
Kthxbye!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You still haven't made your point.
An update every year to all its zillion+ customer base at once with our any issues irrespective of the carrier, across countries and continents. If they are not masters of this, you let me know the word I can use or you think appropriate.
A tiny-ass copy/paste update (which I'm not even crazy about) is taking them forever to deliver to it's customers. The reason I'm more interested in the update is for the Bluetooth fix and the email pictures fix, which when sent form an iPhone is not received.
An Apple or Android for every one of us? I cannot talk for others, but I've been there done that. Not apple of course (except for the 1st gen phone which I was using it on T-Mobile after unlocking it myself). I currently own a N1, HD2, HD7 (my primary device) and Galaxy S (my wife).
I'm not really sure about your devices experience, but you have lot a lot to say with out any point.
ruscik said:
I have HD2 running android and have less to complain about then with WP7.
I also have HD7 with half an OS on it. It reminds me it is half an OS as each time I want to do something there is no option for it or it says no.
WP7 has potential but the way it is going that's where it is going to stay till XDA developers hack it.
Name smartphone was invented for a reason, it was to be used with phones that were "smarter" then average mobile. Had plenty of functions where everyone could find what they need. Current range of WP7 phones, Apple phones are a retarded version of smartphone but that only makes it an average phone, just huge!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One question - How many times in a week do your reboot your phone or flash a ROM. I'm not asking if you are flashing ROM because there is a new one out there, I'm asking about the times you flash because of the hope the next one would be more usable and stable.
I was done looking for a perfect ROM and fed-up with ROMs that require a reboot every 12 or 24 hrs for them to work with out hanging up. I found the level of stability, usability, functionality and ease with WP7 OS. Thats why I switched. Of course the Apps and Games are a HUGE bonus for me.
VizagDude said:
I agree. I am so pissed at the way MS is trying to push this update. If MS can define hardware limitations, they could very well define the update rules to the carriers. I think MS should grow a pair and tell the manufacturers/carriers to push the update all at once its ready.
This is so frustrating. No doubt Apple is the master of delivering the updates. In fact, Apple does not even have to announce a software update, every one knows they can expect one every year in March/April.
I thought MS would have learnt something good when they launched WP7.
"Push updates in Batches" my Ass.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you actually stopped to think about what you just said, apple can do that because first of all they make their OWN devices (which are extremely overpriced/battery cant be replaced easily if at all) so yeah they can just send out an update, it doesnt have to be test on all of these different manufactured devices. So.........Apple still sucks..........WINDOWS PHONE ALL THE WAY!!!
You guys have to give microsoft a break. It is illogical and unfair to compare a first year company in the new smartphone age to others (apple and android) which have been around for years. Apple and android had really shaky starts too, maybe even worse. Its just an update guys, give microsoft a break on their new and amazing product! NICE JOB MS, keep the magic coming.
=================
Dell Venue Pro 16gb----TMobile(soon to be At&t :/ )
I agree here 100%. I came from WM 6.1 Pro to Android and dont get me wrong... I love my Droid but man did I do alot of *****ing waiting for my FroYo update and for what really? Flash was the biggest upgrade from Eclair and Apps2SD... REALLY??? Apps2SD??? My Omnia i910 could do that right out of the box but I had to wait for an update to do it on my Galaxy S I thought to myself...
This is a similar scenario here and guess what??? *****ing or NO *****ing we still have to wait NO MATTER WHAT!!!
I think MS has done a fantastic job on this OS and although it is lacking some pretty basic functionality as of now, IT WILL COME just like having to wait for Apps2 SD on Android which to me coming from WM 6.1 Pro I thought was pretty basic.
Hold your horses people and let MS do its thing and when this OS begins to mature a bit I have no doubt that it will be an absolute BEAST!!!
gmark7 said:
If you actually stopped to think about what you just said, apple can do that because first of all they make their OWN devices (which are extremely overpriced/battery cant be replaced easily if at all) so yeah they can just send out an update, it doesnt have to be test on all of these different manufactured devices. So.........Apple still sucks..........WINDOWS PHONE ALL THE WAY!!!
You guys have to give microsoft a break. It is illogical and unfair to compare a first year company in the new smartphone age to others (apple and android) which have been around for years. Apple and android had really shaky starts too, maybe even worse. Its just an update guys, give microsoft a break on their new and amazing product! NICE JOB MS, keep the magic coming.
=================
Dell Venue Pro 16gb----TMobile(soon to be At&t :/ )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If not for the *****ing, we wouldn't even have the schedule they posted in their Blog. If they had took care of informing their customers in a timely manner and with accurate info, no one would've been *****ing. Instead, they were promoting their coming updates and fixes giving vague timings and everyone are frustrated not knowing what and when to expect.
The reason I got this device is because I love the OS. But that does not get away from the fact that they screwed up the update process.
the question now is, how often will ms be updating the website. we need to know cause the updates in the website (for hd7's) says that they are to be scheduled and it says it will take 10 days or less. when will the counting of days start? from the time the website was opened? if this is the case were now down to 7 days of wait time. i think ms needs to start re-labeling the updates. NoDo should be april update not march update
Sean D. said:
You sure about that or are you just itching to point an unnecessary finger at MS??
wow... all that and THIS is what gets to you. You waded through all the other stuff, You go back to about 2003 with MS you finally get a FAR SUPERIOR device and this minor wait is doing it??
Come the hell on.
I think the rest of us are going to need a life raft just to avoid drowning in your silly-ass tears.
Ya know, I think it's big of MS ot post the fact that the carriers are the ones holding **** up. Who else does that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The finger pointing isn't unnecessary. Either they care about making customer's happy (who buy the product) or they can be more concerned about the carriers (which in my case Tmobile) haven't shown that much support for the OS in the first place. And you're right, I waded through all the other stuff because winmo really wasn't that bad if you understood what you were getting. For 2003, viewing movies, listening to mp3's and using Office features on a phone were so cutting edge, that you were willing to deal with the occasional bug, lock up or sometimes slowness of the OS. The only thing they did with WP7 was fix the ugliness,smoothness, and overall stability of the OS. Which is exactly what needed to happen. I applaud them for the fresh start. But, seriously, we're in 2011 now (8 yrs later) and you can't regress so far backwards, and then waste loads of time to re-implement things your previous (and every other OS) does now. I mean, what second or newer iteration of a product have you seen that loses a lot of it's most valuable marketing aspects? And as for my tear being silly. Your disillusioned in your thoughts that you don't need such things as I mentioned. If there was no need for them, then mobile OS's wouldn't have them and no one would care.
kwill said:
The finger pointing isn't unnecessary. Either they care about making customer's happy (who buy the product) or they can be more concerned about the carriers (which in my case Tmobile) haven't shown that much support for the OS in the first place. And you're right, I waded through all the other stuff because winmo really wasn't that bad if you understood what you were getting. For 2003, viewing movies, listening to mp3's and using Office features on a phone were so cutting edge, that you were willing to deal with the occasional bug, lock up or sometimes slowness of the OS. The only thing they did with WP7 was fix the ugliness,smoothness, and overall stability of the OS. Which is exactly what needed to happen. I applaud them for the fresh start. But, seriously, we're in 2011 now (8 yrs later) and you can't regress so far backwards, and then waste loads of time to re-implement things your previous (and every other OS) does now. I mean, what second or newer iteration of a product have you seen that loses a lot of it's most valuable marketing aspects? And as for my tear being silly. Your disillusioned in your thoughts that you don't need such things as I mentioned. If there was no need for them, then mobile OS's wouldn't have them and no one would care.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you mean...? They are doing something they NEVER did. They are not only supporting this OS, but addressing it in ways they never have before. I do agree that some things should not have been left out to begin with, IMO it is unacceptable to leave out something as minor as C&P. But they aren't the only ones who did this, and whoever compared them to apple is missing that this minor update is being given away they aren't forcing you to by another device to get it. You said it yourself, MS is not new to this game... hell in most ways they started the smartphone game the way it exists today.
So take a look at the ways Android (one of the OS's everyone claims is doing it right) went about rolling out Froyo. Or look at the fact that Apple is and has been pushing shiney, brand new feature to the masses that were available on my Kaiser in 2007 (front facing camera) or how they are masters at turd polishing.
With that in mind how are they really messing up?
You are seeing MS do things with it that we saw no signs of in 2003 but you feel they are making that big of a mistake?? I urge you to look past the minor crap and look at the overall picture.
There is no way you can logically look at this OS as a whole and see any real regressions. "Imperfections", hell yes. But regressions?? No way. The worst part about this update is that it has been beat to **** so bad that it can only catch negativity at this point. It has been splashed from site to site, and talked about at length... the expectations and anticipations are so high that people can only be let down. Back the hell away from the keyboard and chill out about something so small people.
Please read these links.
http://wmpoweruser.com/editorial-the-continuing-diminishing-return-from-updates/
http://wpcentral.com/fanboy-s-defense-microsoft
Sean D. said:
What do you mean...? They are doing something they NEVER did. They are not only supporting this OS, but addressing it in ways they never have before. ... and whoever compared them to apple is missing that this minor update is being given away they aren't forcing you to by another device to get it. ... There is no way you can logically look at this OS as a whole and see any real regressions. "Imperfections", hell yes. But regressions?? No way. The worst part about this update is that it has been beat to **** so bad that it can only catch negativity at this point. It has been splashed from site to site, and talked about at length... the expectations and anticipations are so high that people can only be let down. Back the hell away from the keyboard and chill out about something so small people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They did support windows mobile, there was plenty of new builds just when WP7 project started it wend down. Yes they address update process in a new way but it is a flaud way. What testing carriers need to do? I mean FFS they put their own picture and search engine in, that is it.
I agree MS is more concerned about keeping o2, Tmobile or other carrier happy and as per normal do not care about ned user. We paid for this device and we should get an update ASAP bypassing carriers. Apple 3gs runs software of apple 4 and I think apple 3g also so no they do not force you to buy new device.
Also as said before all apple users get update from apple on apple rules and apple does not care about carriers.
You say you can not look at this OS as regression, you say update is doomed to fail due to high expectations that will never be fulfilled. Did you stop to think where are those expectations coming from. It is only normal to compare new OS to old one to see the upgrades, advantages. With WP7 there is only one smooth interface. People expect the same fitures that were in windows mobile, that all other OS makers copied. C&P, internet sharing, portable storage mode are just few big ones that MS ignored?! Why?! Why there is still no GPS software, it seems no big makers want to make one, that can only be Microsoft fault and do not tell me they care about customers because then they would be insisting for TomTom or copilot do one to complete their platform.
The only things I have read about other Nav software has been sketchy. And one of the reasons (real or not) is because they don't want to compete with whatever Bing updates are coming (whenever that is).
Not sure if its legit or not, but I saw it somewhere.
I will say that seeing Bing be so far superior on the other platforms is horse ****. If they want to do any one thing to make me more satisfied that would be it. Beyond that, as important as the update is I'm not going to cry about it taking this long.
Especially if it has to do with the carriers.
Bing navigation is **** that is it. It might work for US where significant number of people never leave US. However here in Europe, rest of the world as well people take their cars/bikes abroad and want to use GPS. Data roaming costs more then brick of gold so sorry that makes any online navigation ****.
I will not even mention fact that if you have basic gprs connection (the slowest) navigation will not work for sudden change of roads.
I have the dell venue pro TMo US. Just received my pre-nodo and nodo update today. I love you microsoft. Hope this fixes the wifi issue. No problems so far.
I've updated my HD7 to NoDo via the process of disconnecting data while Zune is checking for the update. Worked like a charm. I did this yesterday, couldn't rely on MS anymore to add my device to their batch process. The update is out there approved by most of the carriers. MS is the one that's limiting the update through whatever criteria within the Zune.
Sent from my HD7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Maybe it's time for you to adandon MS all together. Chances are you'll be *****ing about them from here on out so why put yourself through it?
Maybe I'm mising something but I figure by now if it was ALL MS's fault more carriers would have pointed fingers back at them just to save face f nothing else, right?