Database Develop

HTCClassAction.org - October 9, 2008 - Kaiser / Polaris / Nike

The site is up and running, discussion here!

Frontpage is done, see http://www.htcclassaction.org/. Feel free to comment. None of the other pages on the site are done yet, though.

I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...

There isn't really a point to the petition, as companies don't really care. There probably isn't a big point with a class action lawsuit either, as it's entirely possible we won't win. It is something that should be investigated, as ultimately, it's just a way of applying pressure, getting publicity and raising awareness.
And nope, I'm not a former employee, but I am disgruntled by the way HTC is treating us.

Looks very good!

Vukile said:
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about people who already use their hard earned money and brought the device already?

jackleung said:
What about people who already use their hard earned money and brought the device already?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The most basic rule when buying a PDA: Only buy what you know youre getting, not what you think youre getting. I learnt that the hard way three years ago,its the same game all over. I think its an annual event.

Vukile said:
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe you should read the main thread before posting crap like this. There are plenty of people, including myself who think a class action suite would be a good idea. Even if we didn't win or had no real grounds for one, the negative feedback alone could cause HTC to do something about the driver support.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=339745

Vukile said:
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As Chainfire mentioned, petitions never work. This is because people eventually "cool off" and stop caring that they've been ripped off.
If I paid a lot less for my Kaiser, I wouldn't care as much that it's being outperformed by the older cheaper HTC models. We paid an arm and leg for these costly phones, we'd expect them to at least give us the basics (drivers).
How would you feel if you bought some fancy & expensive graphics board only to have to use the generic drivers that come with your OS?
Chainfire, great work. Let us know when you've set up the paypal account.

Oh, by the way, wonderful site Chainfire. It has all the info needed in one neatly organized site.

Excellent site Chainfire. If this is indicative of the effort you put into things, my previous (and future) donations have been well spent!! Very clear and to the point.
I posted a link on the "Proper video drivers...." sticky to a Google page tlaking about the bright new future of Android. Just wondered if it is worth highlighting to visitors to the site that HTC is one of the core companies developing this - perhaps if they realise HTC's attitude will affect more than just the current devices. Or maybe they won't care as most casual browsers don't know what Android is? Ah, I don't know.
Hey, if we draw public attention to all this, and then someone manages to address the issue here on XDA-devs, could that cause problems - infringment of copyright etc?

I don't understand the point of this petition, or a law suite for that matter. What do 99% of people do with their Kaisers anyway? There are lots of people around me where I work that use Windows smart phones and they are happy to get their push mail, GPS, bluetooth, whatever. I think they could care less about video drivers.
I'm not saying I wouldn't like to have some video acceleration, but most users probably could care less. We are the minority.
I think raising awareness is a great idea. Perhaps listing those manufactures that actually support their WinMo devices with proper drivers is even better, so potential buyers would know to spend their money else wehere.
I got my Kaiser as a Tilt from AT&T. I had 30 days to return it. I was given ample opportunity to play with it, install software, and make my complaint. I kept the device. No one was being forced to buy these things.
If you bought an unlocked Kaiser and spend a large bit of cash, well you take the first movers risk. No reason anyone couldn't wait to see what others though of the device before purchasing it.
You certainly can't will things into existence. Can't buy an HTC phone and wish into existence some drivers that it never had in the first place.
As much as I would like video acceleration, I'm not sure where it is that HTC specifically stated their would be some. GPS, pushmail, Pocket IE, it all pretty much works as expected. I understand that the qualcomm chipset may certainly be capable of video acceleration, but that doesn't mean that it was a specific feature that HTC was going after when it made the Kaiser.
I'm not trying to ruin anyones plans or desires to get the most out of their phones, but why not just not buy the phone?
I for one look forward to something like Android, so hobbiests and consumers can put the features they want to exploit in to place on phones like the Kaiser. I hope this drastically changes the market and gives us more choice in our software, and forces manufacturers to do more than the bare minimum with these devices.
-James

jmacdonald801 said:
As much as I would like video acceleration, I'm not sure where it is that HTC specifically stated their would be some.
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Click to collapse
Well, given older HTC devices never mentioned video acceleration in their specs either and that they're certainly performing better than the Kaiser, I think it's fair to expect performance which at the very least matches that of former models.

I got my Kaiser as a Tilt from AT&T. I had 30 days to return it. I was given ample opportunity to play with it, install software, and make my complaint. I kept the device. No one was being forced to buy these things...
...As much as I would like video acceleration, I'm not sure where it is that HTC specifically stated their would be some. GPS, pushmail, Pocket IE, it all pretty much works as expected. I understand that the qualcomm chipset may certainly be capable of video acceleration, but that doesn't mean that it was a specific feature that HTC was going after when it made the Kaiser.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hate to say it, but jmac makes very good points. Awareness is fine. Negative publicity might cause some action. but such a lawsuit isn't very winnable here since there were no real explicit promises broken here. Any "promises borken" were more hopes and expectations that were not made by the manufacturer.
But who knows, this being a very HTC centric forum, it could make them take a little notice, but most likely this isn't a winnable case.

jomo25 said:
I hate to say it, but jmac makes very good points. Awareness is fine. Negative publicity might cause some action. but such a lawsuit isn't very winnable here since there were no real explicit promises broken here. Any "promises borken" were more hopes and expectations that were not made by the manufacturer.
But who knows, this being a very HTC centric forum, it could make them take a little notice, but most likely this isn't a winnable case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehe, as stated elsewhere, it's mostly a pressure and publicity tool. In the end, if we do do the case, it doesn't even really matter if we win it. The publicity and awareness it will generate... There's the headology factor. People are happy using a gadget. People learn the gadget can do a lot more then it does. People are unhappy using the gadget. People complain about the gadget. Creator of gadget fixes gadget
Mark my words, if enough attention is given to this, HTC will do the right thing, if only to save face.

Great site so far Chainfire. I pray that this brings enough attention to move HTC to action. Without those drivers, I can compare this to buying a Corvette only to realize once on the road that the governor is set to 30mph.

Satus update
Status update:
The site is almost finished and uploaded, apart from the "Responses from HTC" section.
- Please read the 'drivers in detail' page and tell me what you think
- Please help me collect 'carrier branded' names of the devices in question
I have also setup a paypal address for donations for the AdWords campaign only, you can find a button on the "What you can do" page. I already put 100 euro's in there myself, and it's been getting extra visitors for almost an hour now.
Before I finish the "Responses from HTC" part, start submitting to slashdot, digg, etc, it's time for dinner

you might want to add the htc vogue/sprint touch to your list on htcclassaction.org, it suffers the same problem and i believe it has a similar chipset with the same 3d hardware.
i think htc will just say,well just because the chipset we use has 3d hardware built in doesn't mean we have to enable or support it because it was never advertised as such.

I'd have to download and extract a ROM to be sure though, I'll do that later.

jmacdonald801 said:
I don't understand the point of this petition, or a law suite for that matter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What he said...but I am a little under the influence right now. To be honest, my phone works for GPS, works for email, works for web browsing, sync's via activesync, plays movies just fine (no slider issues when adjusting sound), allows me to read ebooks, works with office mobile (though I would like to be able to save Word documents as .DOC files, not .DOCX). Guess I'm with the 99% because I really don't see any issues with the phone that cause me to get on a soapbox. I really don't care if this makes me unpopular, but I'm so sick of people coming on this forum and moaning about video driver issues. Show me one other device that does all the things that a Kaiser can do? iPhone, no GPS and limited open source unless you want to run the risk of bricking the device, Nokia? Please, I had the 9xxx series of communicators for years. I had the choice between the latest comunicator series or the Kaiser, I went with the Kaiser as Symbian sucked. The N95, QWERTY keyboard???
This phone is not designed as a graphics device, its a business tool. If you want DVD quality movies, buy a portable DVD player, graphic intensive games, get a PSP. I have a Nokia 2110 mobile from 10 years ago that can't handle MID files, a Garmin Sat-Nav the size of a house brick and a digital camera that uses 3.5" floppy discs cause memory cards hadn't been invented when it was launched. HTC have packed an MP3 player, sat-nav, laptop computer, digital camera, mobile phone (...the list goes on) inside a device the size of a packet of cigarettes. Personally I think this is amazing, lets give them a bit of credit for doing this!
[/drunk rant off...]

Driver issue in the News!!!!

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/01/17/htc_chipset_anger/
Was kind of surprised to see this front page on the register.

rascalion said:
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/01/17/htc_chipset_anger/
Click to expand...
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tha ball is starting to roll. great.

They've asked for people to let them know if they've had a problem. Best we all in get in touch, methinks. If they get another 4000 people complaining directly to them, it'll be more negative press for HTC, and it's more likely that they'll have to do something about it.

this is great. and other news sites checking their competitors will hopefuly se the post and write about it more.

Tweakers.net reports the same problem on the frontpage.
It's a rather big community for The Netherlands and Belgium.
I hope more prestigious websites will follow just to make HTC clear it's a major problem which needs a good solution right away.

Their trying to stall for time, but great response so far!
Absolutely fabulous! Great support so far from other major Pocket PC websites. I'm delighted already. At this pace HTC will have to do a lot better than to ask for stupid e-mails detailing what has been made very clear to them already!
Don't fall for the time wasting e-mails friends. If you do send one, why not simply direct them to http://www.htcclassaction.org/ for a detailed explanation of our problems encountered.
If we do this any other way, they will only look at how many of these registered devices are HTC branded and try to diminish responsibility of all the other Network branded Kaiser's that they produced.
Our Serial numbers and other ref numbers is irrelevant to the problem, as is our ROM details. We switched ROMs because of these issues and we still have them!
For those who know what I'm saying please explain in better ways than I have. I'm not too good with words.

thats Good
wow..it seem a good sign..we will get our driver fix..soon..yeahh

Now we just need to forward these news articles/coverage to HTC to make sure THEY know that their asses are in the spotlight now. It would be great if we could get additional coverage on even bigger sites and networks. This is how a lot of battles against big corporations are fought by us little people today; by going to news sources to spread the word.
Hurray for my first post!

Even better would be if every one from this board Diggs the story forcing it around the internet. This link should work.
Digg It

Sounds great!

they better start this driver and release it soon otherwise they are most definitly looking at a lawsuite.

mackaby007 said:
Absolutely fabulous! Great support so far from other major Pocket PC websites. I'm delighted already. At this pace HTC will have to do a lot better than to ask for stupid e-mails detailing what has been made very clear to them already!
Don't fall for the time wasting e-mails friends. If you do send one, why not simply direct them to http://www.htcclassaction.org/ for a detailed explanation of our problems encountered.
If we do this any other way, they will only look at how many of these registered devices are HTC branded and try to diminish responsibility of all the other Network branded Kaiser's that they produced.
Our Serial numbers and other ref numbers is irrelevant to the problem, as is our ROM details. We switched ROMs because of these issues and we still have them!
For those who know what I'm saying please explain in better ways than I have. I'm not too good with words.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand where you are coming from and I don't mean to be insulting but your post is very contra productive.
Just forwarding a website to them will not get their attention.
Admitting you are using homebrew ROMs will make them ignore you.
For HTC to take the issue seriously (I've stated this in numerous posts by now) they need:
1. People calling them first and foremost. E-mail is secondary.
2. a) People describing symptoms of these issues. b) The issues should preferebly be described when using the pre-loaded applications.
3. That users stick to the pre-loaded ROM/Radio.
I know it sounds stupid but this is how tech support works at major companies.
They don't have time to listen to nuts who have tweaked their units to the max and fire off an e-mail asking for a driver. They need to know what the symptoms of the supposed issue are. How to reproduce the issues and they need to filter out all factors that can be attributed to user fault or third party software.
Again, you might certainly think it's stupid but let's face it we have nothing to gain by not playing by their rules when it comes to error reporting. Nothing, nada, zip, zilch.

just to get the story out there some more i've sent a mail/contacted te following to try get some more exposure:
bbc
itn
thesun
thetimes
pocketpcmag (also posted on their forums)
here's hoping this will gather momentum....

Nice to see the pressreleases we (HTCClassAction.org) have sent out are having this effect. Let's just hope more sites pick it up!
theflash42 said:
Even better would be if every one from this board Diggs the story forcing it around the internet. This link should work.
Digg It
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would be MUCH more useful if you Digg the site that is spearheading it all:
Digg HTCClassAction.org

i highly doubt htc will fix these issues.. i smell a new phone coming our way soon! (6months)

For All
Hello,
Look an another article for Plaint of HTC driver.
http://www.theinquirer.fr/2008/01/1...s_graphiques_de_mobiles_htc.html#comment-9498
Please post your Comment at the end of the page of this web site !!!
Found it on google.news
Private69.
@++++

It shouldn't be just about the 'driver issue', it should be more towards producing a quality product, and not a defective product, and their 'current ethics' involved in pushing a product out the door before it is ready to impress investors with bottom line figures and ultimately producing a defective product.

Long time ago, two review sites already complained about the lag:
http://www.wirelessinfo.com/content/AT-T-Tilt-Cell-Phone-Review.htm
http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_tytn_2-review-181.php
It's not news to HTC. They're just sandbagging.

undac said:
Admitting you are using homebrew ROMs will make them ignore you.
For HTC to take the issue seriously (I've stated this in numerous posts by now) they need:
1. People calling them first and foremost. E-mail is secondary.
2. a) People describing symptoms of these issues.
b) The issues should preferebly be described when using the pre-loaded applications.
3. That users stick to the pre-loaded ROM/Radio.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately, this is probably true but if you check the specs on the Qulacomm chip, it purportedly has support for common Windows video formats as well, that should play under Windows Media Player such as the AVI files that my cheapo camera records. If you do contact them this is probaby enough information on the video aspect that we need to supply (AVI files on WMP). In fact, I'll have to dig up my camera encode specs as this is very telling. I am sure the chip in my camera has no where near the horpower of the Kaiser chip. In addition, it cost less than $200.
As for the ROM, I would guess they might question this as well. Although it is not a likely culpret, it does make their support job a lot more difficult and I could see where they might take the easy road and dismiss the issue as user created. However, in my case I installed a ROM that is actually closer to the HTC shipped ROM. So if they tested their ROM, and the hardware differences are minimal (I think the front side camera is the only real difference), the possibilty that the issue is related to the updated ROM is pretty slim.
At any rate, I think there is plenty of evidence that both the stock shipped HTC ROM and the stock sipped AT&T ROM have this issue. There have also been plenty of complaints coming from the other side of the pond, so if ALL ROM appear to show this problem, it is a moot point, no?

jgermuga said:
At any rate, I think there is plenty of evidence that both the stock shipped HTC ROM and the stock sipped AT&T ROM have this issue. There have also been plenty of complaints coming from the other side of the pond, so if ALL ROM appear to show this problem, it is a moot point, no?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In your eyes, yes.
In the techie kind of guys eyes, yes.
In HTCs eyes, no.
In the eys of the casual observer, no.
It's not ourselves we have to convince, it's HTC. And we can only do that by playing their game. No matter how silly and cumbersome you think it is.
HTC doesn't have to and shouldn't have to support a modified ROM no matter how good the user thinks it is.
Nor can they be responsible for third party software unless it's very obvious that the third party software works great on all but their products. (Which in turn makes it easier to just skip the third party step and give HTC input based on their pre-loaded software.)
As I said, I'm not saying your opinion about the sillyness of it all is wrong or unjustified. I'm just saying it's contra productive to the cause.
Even though HTC has many reports, seen petitions, the looming threat of a lawsuit etc. the holy grail of any company such as this is till support tickets. Once their systems is swamped with tickets containing the same problem enough times that's when they start acting.
I know this because:
a) I worked tech support for similair companies when I was younger.
b) I've handled numerous cases like these before. And I used to try your approach, it simply never works.
c) I worked as an editor and I've interviewed several support managers and such.
There's no point in acting based upon how you want things to work. If a result is what you need, rather than just to blow off steam, you need to work the system and play by their rules.
Again, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I just strongly advice against it as I think it would do more harm than good here.

Need driver specialist who can describe Kaiser problem in detail

I've found a couple of companies that specialize in developing drivers for handheld devices, one of them is particulary interesting as it has done exactly what we're looking for before. I need someone who can talk to them and get them all the details and specs.
Here's the correspondence so far:
Me to them:
'm writing on behalf of HTC Kaiser owners. It's pretty much well
known to whoever is interested in PDAs that HTC has shipped many of its
recent devices without proper video drivers. They have a Qualcomm chipset
with (reportedly) ATI Imageon hardware acceleration in it, but not enabled
or not properly used. We've collected a good sum of money to get those
drivers developed, and I wanted to ask whether your company can help us with
this. More info (including specifics of the problem) can be found here:
http://www.htcwiki.com/page/HTC+TyTN+II+Driver+Issues and here:
www.htcclassaction.org Please let me know whether you can help us with that
and we can talk about compensation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They answered:
Thank you for contacting ALT Software.
We would be happy to discuss your requirements with you. As you may be
aware, ALT has been developing software driver solutions for our clients for
over 13 years now. Our team has extensive experience in creating system and
embedded level software. In fact ALT supports a variety of ATI chips within
our own OpenGL product line, as well as having been engaged by AMD/ATI on
other software development projects enabling new chips for the HDTV and set
top box industry.
ALT definitely has the ability to support your group; however the key
component that may be lacking is access to the hardware specifications,
registry specs for the chip, and existing driver source from ATI & Qualcomm.
Does your group have access to those specifications? Without that
information, it would make the task monumental.
Are you able to provide me with a ballpark on the budget your group has set
aside for this work?
I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Thanks,
Rob
Robert ********* - Sales Manager
ALT Software Inc.
****************
****************
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've answered:
Thanks for getting back to us.
Here's the basic info on the chipset: http://www.qualcomm.com/press/releases/2006/060404_sampling_msm7200_chipset.html
There are a lot of senior developers in the community, I'm sure I can get more details on the problem and about the chipset from them. HTC also promised to release some kind of a fix for video rendering that may help you.
So far we've collected over $4000 for this, and if more is needed - I'm sure people will pile in more as they will see that someone is working on it.
Let me get some people who know drivers better than me so that we can provide better details.
In the meantime, let me know what the price range for this could be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I covered the contact info so that he doesn't get swarmed with descriptions. We need to keep this at a reasonable level. I will give his email and phone to however decides to handle this.

Wow, cool man. I'm just afraid we don't have enough specs from HTC to get the project going...

That's where the money come in. I just need someone who can talk hardware to these guys and figure out the details.

Good legwork. I would think a company like this would want to charge at least 50-100k considering the impact. But I could be WAY off(hopefully). You may want to mention to them the high profile this issue has gotten and that they could potentially come out of all of this as hero's and get a lot of good publicity which may add a lot of value instead of cash...

Yeah I was just thinking about that. We could use publicity.
So far however, they want to know the extent of the problem.. They wanna know how much work is needed (understandably). That's why I need someone who has whatever info we can possibly have about this.

bump this...important.

DarkDvr said:
Yeah I was just thinking about that. We could use publicity.
So far however, they want to know the extent of the problem.. They wanna know how much work is needed (understandably). That's why I need someone who has whatever info we can possibly have about this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your best bet is Chainfire. Have you PM'd him?

Well, they are looking for a job that's $20K+, large scale projects. I tried to persuade them with publicity and ease of the project... but they declined.
However, they recommended finding someone on scguild.com.
I'll try that today...
If anybody has any leads - let us know.

Perhaps we should consider taking this approach
Show this company figures that represent the number of units the Kaiser and its variations have shown.
Let them know we will raise money up front to get them started.
Let them know they can make money by charing fro a fix and give them the numbers to back it up.
For example:
If 1 million people (and I read here at xda that it is in fact more than that, but I DO NOT KNOW) have bought the Kaiser/Tilt/TyTN II etc etc etc and only 5% of the purchasers buy a fix at lets say $20 then they stand to make $250,000 in addition to whatever start up costs we can give them.
If we get this (or another) company to commit to doing this, and we get an upfront number they require to start the development, then we have a solid goal. We then start a campaign not only at xda, but worldwide, involve the media who has covered this story. The media entities who have covered this to date, have a great follow up story. This in turn gets the coverage needed to show them enough people will buy the fix after development.
For example, they might say "We will be willing to develop this for $XXXXX upfront if outlets exist where we can be assured there is DISTRIBUTION for the fix.
We then have a goal:
Start a world wide campaign to raise the upfront costs.
Secure distribution at every pocket pc software sales site we can contact.
They just might go for it.
That is a lot of money!
Money talks. Publicity seems like a good idea, but they want cash. Show them this is but one way of how to get it!!!!!!

mrmega said:
Perhaps we should consider taking this approach
Show this company figures that represent the number of units the Kaiser and its variations have shown.
Let them know we will raise money up front to get them started.
Let them know they can make money by charing fro a fix and give them the numbers to back it up.
For example:
If 1 million people (and I read here at xda that it is in fact more than that, but I DO NOT KNOW) have bought the Kaiser/Tilt/TyTN II etc etc etc and only 5% of the purchasers buy a fix at lets say $20 then they stand to make $250,000 in addition to whatever start up costs we can give them.
If we get this (or another) company to commit to doing this, and we get an upfront number they require to start the development, then we have a solid goal. We then start a campaign not only at xda, but worldwide, involve the media who has covered this story. The media entities who have covered this to date, have a great follow up story. This in turn gets the coverage needed to show them enough people will buy the fix after development.
For example, they might say "We will be willing to develop this for $XXXXX upfront if outlets exist where we can be assured there is DISTRIBUTION for the fix.
We then have a goal:
Start a world wide campaign to raise the upfront costs.
Secure distribution at every pocket pc software sales site we can contact.
They just might go for it.
That is a lot of money!
Money talks. Publicity seems like a good idea, but they want cash. Show them this is but one way of how to get it!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but charging for the fix? it would presumably need to be built into a rom rather than installed seperately. how could they charge for it when we would be cooking roms with it in for free to download? and if we are doing that still then thats quite a bit out of order really. I wouldnt personally like to see us lot cooking roms.

Good idea, I like it.
I'm not giving up - still searching and spamming developers who would be interested in this. If anybody else googles driver development companies - that'd make it easier and faster for us all.
I've got a good description of the problem (thanks Chainfire) which you can use to describe the problem:
"The problem with the current drivers is that they essentially just dump the completely software rendered screen on to the display memory, and that's pretty much all they do. Direct3D and OpenGL ES drivers are missing completely.
No use is made of any sort of acceleration that is provided by the ATI Imageon technology used in these Qualcomm MSM7200/MSM7500 based devices.
What we want are GDI / DDI, DirectDraw/3D, OpenGL ES and GAPI drivers that do make use of the available hardware acceleration."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

thefunkygibbon said:
but charging for the fix? it would presumably need to be built into a rom rather than installed seperately. how could they charge for it when we would be cooking roms with it in for free to download? and if we are doing that still then thats quite a bit out of order really. I wouldnt personally like to see us lot cooking roms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All we need is 1 ROM with proper drivers in it. Everything else is easy.

however the key component that may be lacking is access to the hardware specifications, registry specs for the chip, and existing driver source from ATI & Qualcomm.
I'm not a pro, but isn't that just the problem??
That's just what's needed, and no one seems to have it. (Or is willing to provide)

$20 000 is not that much. Thats just $20 from 1000 people.
Imagine selling the driver for $20. Way more than 1000 people would buy it. I dont think this amount of money needs to be an obstacle.
Surur

Er...
NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER TELL THEN HOW MUCH MONEY YOU HAVE!!!!!
Geez people!
You ALWAYS ASK A PRICE QUOTE AND THEN HAGGLE!!!!
They say, so you got 4k... we want 10k+
BUT
if you ask a price range, they dont know how much we have, and then cant ask double for it. Understand?
Time to start with a new company...

Hehe, well these guys' problem was not really the money, it was the volume as he himself said.
His words:
"Unfortunately, ALT will have to decline this scope.
You may have better luck looking to a individual contractor boards such as www.scguild.com."
But point taken. I've ran through that website and wrote to many potential graphics driver developers... we'll see what they say.

thefunkygibbon said:
but charging for the fix? it would presumably need to be built into a rom rather than installed seperately. how could they charge for it when we would be cooking roms with it in for free to download? and if we are doing that still then thats quite a bit out of order really. I wouldn't personally like to see us lot cooking roms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I only suggested my idea because we are talking about a 3rd party developing this for us, not HTC. I am not a developer so I don't know how the fix would be applied so please forgive my lack of understanding of how the fix needs to be applied.
If it is a driver, and the devs here would have to cook it into a rom or roms then maybe we are only paying for the driver.
All I can say is that we have a goal, and if HTC wont give give us what we need, and if none of the developers here can succeed then we we have to consider resorting to going to a 3rd party company to develop the solution.
A 3rd party company is only going to be interested in the $$$. I can only speak for myself, but if my choices are to have no drivers or to pay for them... I, like everyone else who pledged to the bounty thread will GLADLY pay to get this issue fixed.
Do I want to pay? NO! HTC should have given this to us but they did not so I don't know what else to suggest.

How about these:
http://www.pfaadtsoft.de/
Here's some stuff I found on MSDN:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms890622.aspx
I haven't bothered reading it but the title looked interesting
This section in general might hold interesting info:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa447511.aspx

undac said:
How about these:
http://www.pfaadtsoft.de/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
good find, email sent.
Here's some stuff I found on MSDN:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms890622.aspx
I haven't bothered reading it but the title looked interesting
This section in general might hold interesting info:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa447511.aspx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's to whoever understands driver better than me.

I'd be willing to chip in a good amount. Was already looking into other companies fixing the problem, but they would need a lot of information that only Qualcomm and HTC have. :\

NEW VIDEO DRIVERS COMMING at the end of march

http://life.tweakers.net/nieuws/51901/htc-directeur-belooft-drivers-voor-geplaagde-toestellen.html
On a dutch website the headline says "HTC president promises new drivers for plaged devices"
In short english .... Driver was not implemented because HTC needed to pay for the driver. They tried to program it themselves but its seams they will now pay for the driver with Qualcomm . The driver should be avaiable at the end of march ..... Its not yet know for what devices though.
Lets wait and see and hope

Time will tell...

We know. if you have been looking at htcclassaction.org then it shows that also. I think it was someone on here that got the email saying that and he told Chainfire.

brilliant news.
Do we think that the user is going to end up paying for the driver then?

This makes me glad I held onto my Tilt. I can't wait to knock the dust off it & fire up with the new drivers.

andaroo said:
brilliant news.
Do we think that the user is going to end up paying for the driver then?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt it, and if they do I expect one person will buy it and then they'll be put into a new ROM for all to use.
I've contacted T-Mobile about it asking to get in touch with HTC and see how they plan to distribute it.

WOW
That a marvelous news..cant wait..
so its mean our TyTn II will be the best phone ever after that..

Just keep your guard up, if this doesn't turn out to work and the CEO is just pulling us or this is fake, then dont whine and complain.

I'm itching to buy one of these phones as an upgrade to my aging Vario (Wizard) but I'm still going to hold off pending confirmation of this great news from an official source at HTC. Once I know they are really going to address this issue then I'll be happy to buy now and put up with the current poor display performance (which I observed first-hand in the store) until the drivers are released. Hopefully someone like chainfire will be able to confirm this for us soon.
Andre

Great ****ing news! I want to be optimistic about, and celebrate HTC when they come through at the end of March.

Actually, there's a new ROM out today. I wonder if there's a surprise in it.

Hi
The problem with this is that it is in no way official and until it is made official by an announcement on the HTC website it's nothing more than viral marketing.
It there were any truth in it HTC would be all too keen to shout it from their website surely?
Until it is made official from HTC this "email" is either some strange hoax or a deliberate fabrication from HTC PR marketing.
The HTC Class action site should not be falling for it and giving it publicity. If the chief executive really wanted to reassure his customer's it would be official on the HTC website. To think he would email personally to one particular person making claims of a forthcoming fix is quite frankly very unbelievable!
As to checking the email for correct SMTP headers etc, it takes nothing to fabricate those, it is only a text document after all that can be edited at will!
Regards
Phil

PhilipL said:
Hi
The problem with this is that it is in no way official and until it is made official by an announcement on the HTC website it's nothing more than viral marketing.
It there were any truth in it HTC would be all too keen to shout it from their website surely?
Until it is made official from HTC this "email" is either some strange hoax or a deliberate fabrication from HTC PR marketing.
The HTC Class action site should not be falling for it and giving it publicity. If the chief executive really wanted to reassure his customer's it would be official on the HTC website. To think he would email personally to one particular person making claims of a forthcoming fix is quite frankly very unbelievable!
As to checking the email for correct SMTP headers etc, it takes nothing to fabricate those, it is only a text document after all that can be edited at will!
Regards
Phil
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
your right! ill wait till HTC puts it on the website officially

omg...this is greaT!!!!!

Hi
omg...this is greaT!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Caution, don't get too excited. There is absolutely nothing to prove the email is genuine, and no official announcement on the HTC website.
This email carries about as much weight as a helium balloon would in the international space station.
Regards
Phil

budakjb said:
That a marvelous news..cant wait..
so its mean our TyTn II will be the best phone ever after that..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think so. Please, check the coming SonyEricsson XPERIA X1:
Screen of 800x400 !!!
Hardware acceleration (supported with drivers) Being able to accelerate 3D graphics and decode HD Video!!
Windows Mobile 6.5
400MB of internal memory
MircroSDHC slot
QWERTY keyboard (slideable) with a much more robust mechanism than our Tytn II
3.2 MPX Cam... Cybershot!! (CarlZeis + Flash + 3x Optic)
Assisted GPS
Metal-case
Slim design
Less weight
Wonderful interface (iPhone beater)
And I'm prety sure, this brand will not disappoint us with such a device (I mean, we will not have surprises like... oh! I can't play videos... even the cam of the phone is useless, or it hangs up when touching the screen)
I took the decision of not let me being robbed by anyone, neither taunted by any brand. So I'll NOT buy a device from HTC never more. Instead of it, I'll inmediately buy the Sony device and put my AWUFULL tytn2 in sale...

Guys... HTC will probably NEVER officially announce that.
As I've said before in sticky thread:
1. It will confirm that there was an issue and we were right.
2. It will contradict their official statement about their "price policies" and that "Kaiser was never indended to have drivers and be a high end video-device" or whatever.
3. If something goes wrong they won't be able to backup from releasing drivers. By "something" I mean shaky Qualcomm's position, they did lose the court case and who knows what can happen with that company. And HTC as I understand will be relying on Qualcomm for drivers.
4. This publicity is not that good for them, as it will stay in people's minds that HTC is releasing devices, and drivers for them with a huge delay. Not a good marketing.
Of course, they have smart strategists working there and perhaps they will deem it profitable to release the official statement. We will just have to wait and see. But besides that - I wouldn't wait for official statement.
Oh and one more thing - chainfire updated htcclassaction.org, he says that they've analyzed smtp headers of the letter and they do look genuine. Besides that (as I udnerstand) they've sent a separate letter to Mr Chou and he confirmed that those are his emails.
CHAMPAGNE *****EZ!!!!

Please people, this news is as stated by another poster, on the class action thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=359534&page=129
Now were onto the Experia and that too has numerous threads already including Meneisyys sticky thread.
Mike

Support for non-HTC devices

I'm probably going to get it for asking this, but why not add support for other devices (at lest popular ones). I realize this site was founded around HTC devices (I've owned at least four myself), but couldn't there at least be a couple forums for other vendors (Motorola, Sony, Samsung, to name a few).
Personally, I've been extremely anxious to get my hands on a Touch Pro II when they come to the US, but I must say the more I read about the Samsung Omnia Pro, with its AMOLED screen, 3.5 mm headphone jack, dual flash, 5 megapixel camera, 30 fps video, 1GB ROM, 800MHz processor, and so on (check out http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=5024 for a comparison), the more I start to wonder if I should wait for that device.
While I don't agree with everything in the comparison, WMPowerUser makes a point that the Omnia Pro won't have XDA-Dev support. I've gotten so much help from XDA over the years that not having that support could be a deciding factor.
I guess my question is... Why can't we have support for devices from other manufacturers on XDA-Developers (other than in Off-topic/General Discussion areas)?

I believe the idea behind keeping the site all HTC is for a few reasons. The first would probably be because the site is huge already, and running at maximum capacity. And once you added the Samsung Omnia for example, then other people want a forum for their Axim or QTEK or I-mate or whatever phone (or even an iPhone section, gasp!), and this site simply does not have the resources to have forums for every single device ever made. And in my opinion, the second major reason is summed up by JimmyMcGee here:
This is not and official Administration Response, but My view of expanding is summed up in the following quote.
"Jack of all Trades, Master of None."
That quote essentially states if you do to much, you can be the best at anything. We are who we are because we focused our drive and effort on mastering HTC phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope that helps,
Dave

Here's a simular thread with a lot of info, pro's, con's, etc.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=502205

Always exist somewhere everybody's belong
This is the site for HTC manufactured Devices, maybe there is a Omnia forum for you all...
BTW check my siggy there is one more Win Mo Non HTC devices forum
WINMODEVELOPERS... its growing...
winmodevelopers.co.cc