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The site is up and running, discussion here!
Frontpage is done, see http://www.htcclassaction.org/. Feel free to comment. None of the other pages on the site are done yet, though.
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
There isn't really a point to the petition, as companies don't really care. There probably isn't a big point with a class action lawsuit either, as it's entirely possible we won't win. It is something that should be investigated, as ultimately, it's just a way of applying pressure, getting publicity and raising awareness.
And nope, I'm not a former employee, but I am disgruntled by the way HTC is treating us.
Looks very good!
Vukile said:
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
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Click to collapse
What about people who already use their hard earned money and brought the device already?
jackleung said:
What about people who already use their hard earned money and brought the device already?
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The most basic rule when buying a PDA: Only buy what you know youre getting, not what you think youre getting. I learnt that the hard way three years ago,its the same game all over. I think its an annual event.
Vukile said:
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
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Click to collapse
Maybe you should read the main thread before posting crap like this. There are plenty of people, including myself who think a class action suite would be a good idea. Even if we didn't win or had no real grounds for one, the negative feedback alone could cause HTC to do something about the driver support.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=339745
Vukile said:
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As Chainfire mentioned, petitions never work. This is because people eventually "cool off" and stop caring that they've been ripped off.
If I paid a lot less for my Kaiser, I wouldn't care as much that it's being outperformed by the older cheaper HTC models. We paid an arm and leg for these costly phones, we'd expect them to at least give us the basics (drivers).
How would you feel if you bought some fancy & expensive graphics board only to have to use the generic drivers that come with your OS?
Chainfire, great work. Let us know when you've set up the paypal account.
Oh, by the way, wonderful site Chainfire. It has all the info needed in one neatly organized site.
Excellent site Chainfire. If this is indicative of the effort you put into things, my previous (and future) donations have been well spent!! Very clear and to the point.
I posted a link on the "Proper video drivers...." sticky to a Google page tlaking about the bright new future of Android. Just wondered if it is worth highlighting to visitors to the site that HTC is one of the core companies developing this - perhaps if they realise HTC's attitude will affect more than just the current devices. Or maybe they won't care as most casual browsers don't know what Android is? Ah, I don't know.
Hey, if we draw public attention to all this, and then someone manages to address the issue here on XDA-devs, could that cause problems - infringment of copyright etc?
I don't understand the point of this petition, or a law suite for that matter. What do 99% of people do with their Kaisers anyway? There are lots of people around me where I work that use Windows smart phones and they are happy to get their push mail, GPS, bluetooth, whatever. I think they could care less about video drivers.
I'm not saying I wouldn't like to have some video acceleration, but most users probably could care less. We are the minority.
I think raising awareness is a great idea. Perhaps listing those manufactures that actually support their WinMo devices with proper drivers is even better, so potential buyers would know to spend their money else wehere.
I got my Kaiser as a Tilt from AT&T. I had 30 days to return it. I was given ample opportunity to play with it, install software, and make my complaint. I kept the device. No one was being forced to buy these things.
If you bought an unlocked Kaiser and spend a large bit of cash, well you take the first movers risk. No reason anyone couldn't wait to see what others though of the device before purchasing it.
You certainly can't will things into existence. Can't buy an HTC phone and wish into existence some drivers that it never had in the first place.
As much as I would like video acceleration, I'm not sure where it is that HTC specifically stated their would be some. GPS, pushmail, Pocket IE, it all pretty much works as expected. I understand that the qualcomm chipset may certainly be capable of video acceleration, but that doesn't mean that it was a specific feature that HTC was going after when it made the Kaiser.
I'm not trying to ruin anyones plans or desires to get the most out of their phones, but why not just not buy the phone?
I for one look forward to something like Android, so hobbiests and consumers can put the features they want to exploit in to place on phones like the Kaiser. I hope this drastically changes the market and gives us more choice in our software, and forces manufacturers to do more than the bare minimum with these devices.
-James
jmacdonald801 said:
As much as I would like video acceleration, I'm not sure where it is that HTC specifically stated their would be some.
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Well, given older HTC devices never mentioned video acceleration in their specs either and that they're certainly performing better than the Kaiser, I think it's fair to expect performance which at the very least matches that of former models.
I got my Kaiser as a Tilt from AT&T. I had 30 days to return it. I was given ample opportunity to play with it, install software, and make my complaint. I kept the device. No one was being forced to buy these things...
...As much as I would like video acceleration, I'm not sure where it is that HTC specifically stated their would be some. GPS, pushmail, Pocket IE, it all pretty much works as expected. I understand that the qualcomm chipset may certainly be capable of video acceleration, but that doesn't mean that it was a specific feature that HTC was going after when it made the Kaiser.
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I hate to say it, but jmac makes very good points. Awareness is fine. Negative publicity might cause some action. but such a lawsuit isn't very winnable here since there were no real explicit promises broken here. Any "promises borken" were more hopes and expectations that were not made by the manufacturer.
But who knows, this being a very HTC centric forum, it could make them take a little notice, but most likely this isn't a winnable case.
jomo25 said:
I hate to say it, but jmac makes very good points. Awareness is fine. Negative publicity might cause some action. but such a lawsuit isn't very winnable here since there were no real explicit promises broken here. Any "promises borken" were more hopes and expectations that were not made by the manufacturer.
But who knows, this being a very HTC centric forum, it could make them take a little notice, but most likely this isn't a winnable case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehe, as stated elsewhere, it's mostly a pressure and publicity tool. In the end, if we do do the case, it doesn't even really matter if we win it. The publicity and awareness it will generate... There's the headology factor. People are happy using a gadget. People learn the gadget can do a lot more then it does. People are unhappy using the gadget. People complain about the gadget. Creator of gadget fixes gadget
Mark my words, if enough attention is given to this, HTC will do the right thing, if only to save face.
Great site so far Chainfire. I pray that this brings enough attention to move HTC to action. Without those drivers, I can compare this to buying a Corvette only to realize once on the road that the governor is set to 30mph.
Satus update
Status update:
The site is almost finished and uploaded, apart from the "Responses from HTC" section.
- Please read the 'drivers in detail' page and tell me what you think
- Please help me collect 'carrier branded' names of the devices in question
I have also setup a paypal address for donations for the AdWords campaign only, you can find a button on the "What you can do" page. I already put 100 euro's in there myself, and it's been getting extra visitors for almost an hour now.
Before I finish the "Responses from HTC" part, start submitting to slashdot, digg, etc, it's time for dinner
you might want to add the htc vogue/sprint touch to your list on htcclassaction.org, it suffers the same problem and i believe it has a similar chipset with the same 3d hardware.
i think htc will just say,well just because the chipset we use has 3d hardware built in doesn't mean we have to enable or support it because it was never advertised as such.
I'd have to download and extract a ROM to be sure though, I'll do that later.
jmacdonald801 said:
I don't understand the point of this petition, or a law suite for that matter.
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What he said...but I am a little under the influence right now. To be honest, my phone works for GPS, works for email, works for web browsing, sync's via activesync, plays movies just fine (no slider issues when adjusting sound), allows me to read ebooks, works with office mobile (though I would like to be able to save Word documents as .DOC files, not .DOCX). Guess I'm with the 99% because I really don't see any issues with the phone that cause me to get on a soapbox. I really don't care if this makes me unpopular, but I'm so sick of people coming on this forum and moaning about video driver issues. Show me one other device that does all the things that a Kaiser can do? iPhone, no GPS and limited open source unless you want to run the risk of bricking the device, Nokia? Please, I had the 9xxx series of communicators for years. I had the choice between the latest comunicator series or the Kaiser, I went with the Kaiser as Symbian sucked. The N95, QWERTY keyboard???
This phone is not designed as a graphics device, its a business tool. If you want DVD quality movies, buy a portable DVD player, graphic intensive games, get a PSP. I have a Nokia 2110 mobile from 10 years ago that can't handle MID files, a Garmin Sat-Nav the size of a house brick and a digital camera that uses 3.5" floppy discs cause memory cards hadn't been invented when it was launched. HTC have packed an MP3 player, sat-nav, laptop computer, digital camera, mobile phone (...the list goes on) inside a device the size of a packet of cigarettes. Personally I think this is amazing, lets give them a bit of credit for doing this!
[/drunk rant off...]
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/01/17/htc_chipset_anger/
Was kind of surprised to see this front page on the register.
rascalion said:
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/01/17/htc_chipset_anger/
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tha ball is starting to roll. great.
They've asked for people to let them know if they've had a problem. Best we all in get in touch, methinks. If they get another 4000 people complaining directly to them, it'll be more negative press for HTC, and it's more likely that they'll have to do something about it.
this is great. and other news sites checking their competitors will hopefuly se the post and write about it more.
Tweakers.net reports the same problem on the frontpage.
It's a rather big community for The Netherlands and Belgium.
I hope more prestigious websites will follow just to make HTC clear it's a major problem which needs a good solution right away.
Their trying to stall for time, but great response so far!
Absolutely fabulous! Great support so far from other major Pocket PC websites. I'm delighted already. At this pace HTC will have to do a lot better than to ask for stupid e-mails detailing what has been made very clear to them already!
Don't fall for the time wasting e-mails friends. If you do send one, why not simply direct them to http://www.htcclassaction.org/ for a detailed explanation of our problems encountered.
If we do this any other way, they will only look at how many of these registered devices are HTC branded and try to diminish responsibility of all the other Network branded Kaiser's that they produced.
Our Serial numbers and other ref numbers is irrelevant to the problem, as is our ROM details. We switched ROMs because of these issues and we still have them!
For those who know what I'm saying please explain in better ways than I have. I'm not too good with words.
thats Good
wow..it seem a good sign..we will get our driver fix..soon..yeahh
Now we just need to forward these news articles/coverage to HTC to make sure THEY know that their asses are in the spotlight now. It would be great if we could get additional coverage on even bigger sites and networks. This is how a lot of battles against big corporations are fought by us little people today; by going to news sources to spread the word.
Hurray for my first post!
Even better would be if every one from this board Diggs the story forcing it around the internet. This link should work.
Digg It
Sounds great!
they better start this driver and release it soon otherwise they are most definitly looking at a lawsuite.
mackaby007 said:
Absolutely fabulous! Great support so far from other major Pocket PC websites. I'm delighted already. At this pace HTC will have to do a lot better than to ask for stupid e-mails detailing what has been made very clear to them already!
Don't fall for the time wasting e-mails friends. If you do send one, why not simply direct them to http://www.htcclassaction.org/ for a detailed explanation of our problems encountered.
If we do this any other way, they will only look at how many of these registered devices are HTC branded and try to diminish responsibility of all the other Network branded Kaiser's that they produced.
Our Serial numbers and other ref numbers is irrelevant to the problem, as is our ROM details. We switched ROMs because of these issues and we still have them!
For those who know what I'm saying please explain in better ways than I have. I'm not too good with words.
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Click to collapse
I understand where you are coming from and I don't mean to be insulting but your post is very contra productive.
Just forwarding a website to them will not get their attention.
Admitting you are using homebrew ROMs will make them ignore you.
For HTC to take the issue seriously (I've stated this in numerous posts by now) they need:
1. People calling them first and foremost. E-mail is secondary.
2. a) People describing symptoms of these issues. b) The issues should preferebly be described when using the pre-loaded applications.
3. That users stick to the pre-loaded ROM/Radio.
I know it sounds stupid but this is how tech support works at major companies.
They don't have time to listen to nuts who have tweaked their units to the max and fire off an e-mail asking for a driver. They need to know what the symptoms of the supposed issue are. How to reproduce the issues and they need to filter out all factors that can be attributed to user fault or third party software.
Again, you might certainly think it's stupid but let's face it we have nothing to gain by not playing by their rules when it comes to error reporting. Nothing, nada, zip, zilch.
just to get the story out there some more i've sent a mail/contacted te following to try get some more exposure:
bbc
itn
thesun
thetimes
pocketpcmag (also posted on their forums)
here's hoping this will gather momentum....
Nice to see the pressreleases we (HTCClassAction.org) have sent out are having this effect. Let's just hope more sites pick it up!
theflash42 said:
Even better would be if every one from this board Diggs the story forcing it around the internet. This link should work.
Digg It
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It would be MUCH more useful if you Digg the site that is spearheading it all:
Digg HTCClassAction.org
i highly doubt htc will fix these issues.. i smell a new phone coming our way soon! (6months)
For All
Hello,
Look an another article for Plaint of HTC driver.
http://www.theinquirer.fr/2008/01/1...s_graphiques_de_mobiles_htc.html#comment-9498
Please post your Comment at the end of the page of this web site !!!
Found it on google.news
Private69.
@++++
It shouldn't be just about the 'driver issue', it should be more towards producing a quality product, and not a defective product, and their 'current ethics' involved in pushing a product out the door before it is ready to impress investors with bottom line figures and ultimately producing a defective product.
Long time ago, two review sites already complained about the lag:
http://www.wirelessinfo.com/content/AT-T-Tilt-Cell-Phone-Review.htm
http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_tytn_2-review-181.php
It's not news to HTC. They're just sandbagging.
undac said:
Admitting you are using homebrew ROMs will make them ignore you.
For HTC to take the issue seriously (I've stated this in numerous posts by now) they need:
1. People calling them first and foremost. E-mail is secondary.
2. a) People describing symptoms of these issues.
b) The issues should preferebly be described when using the pre-loaded applications.
3. That users stick to the pre-loaded ROM/Radio.
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Click to collapse
Unfortunately, this is probably true but if you check the specs on the Qulacomm chip, it purportedly has support for common Windows video formats as well, that should play under Windows Media Player such as the AVI files that my cheapo camera records. If you do contact them this is probaby enough information on the video aspect that we need to supply (AVI files on WMP). In fact, I'll have to dig up my camera encode specs as this is very telling. I am sure the chip in my camera has no where near the horpower of the Kaiser chip. In addition, it cost less than $200.
As for the ROM, I would guess they might question this as well. Although it is not a likely culpret, it does make their support job a lot more difficult and I could see where they might take the easy road and dismiss the issue as user created. However, in my case I installed a ROM that is actually closer to the HTC shipped ROM. So if they tested their ROM, and the hardware differences are minimal (I think the front side camera is the only real difference), the possibilty that the issue is related to the updated ROM is pretty slim.
At any rate, I think there is plenty of evidence that both the stock shipped HTC ROM and the stock sipped AT&T ROM have this issue. There have also been plenty of complaints coming from the other side of the pond, so if ALL ROM appear to show this problem, it is a moot point, no?
jgermuga said:
At any rate, I think there is plenty of evidence that both the stock shipped HTC ROM and the stock sipped AT&T ROM have this issue. There have also been plenty of complaints coming from the other side of the pond, so if ALL ROM appear to show this problem, it is a moot point, no?
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In your eyes, yes.
In the techie kind of guys eyes, yes.
In HTCs eyes, no.
In the eys of the casual observer, no.
It's not ourselves we have to convince, it's HTC. And we can only do that by playing their game. No matter how silly and cumbersome you think it is.
HTC doesn't have to and shouldn't have to support a modified ROM no matter how good the user thinks it is.
Nor can they be responsible for third party software unless it's very obvious that the third party software works great on all but their products. (Which in turn makes it easier to just skip the third party step and give HTC input based on their pre-loaded software.)
As I said, I'm not saying your opinion about the sillyness of it all is wrong or unjustified. I'm just saying it's contra productive to the cause.
Even though HTC has many reports, seen petitions, the looming threat of a lawsuit etc. the holy grail of any company such as this is till support tickets. Once their systems is swamped with tickets containing the same problem enough times that's when they start acting.
I know this because:
a) I worked tech support for similair companies when I was younger.
b) I've handled numerous cases like these before. And I used to try your approach, it simply never works.
c) I worked as an editor and I've interviewed several support managers and such.
There's no point in acting based upon how you want things to work. If a result is what you need, rather than just to blow off steam, you need to work the system and play by their rules.
Again, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I just strongly advice against it as I think it would do more harm than good here.
This is just my opinion....
Once in a while, a new mobile device comes along and sets imaginations and credit cards on fire. Something compelling, something new. The next big thing perhaps? How many of these devices can you remember from the past couple of years? A few? Now; just how many of these lived up to their full potential?
Go on, take a guess.
Zero.
Now don’t get me wrong here. When I say potential, I mean their hardware potential. Just because the end product is popular and sells well, it doesn’t mean it lives up to what it could be.
Consider the current driver issue with the HTC Tytn II. Many people are very unhappy with the performance of the video drivers. The device is very slow at redrawing the screen when the display is rotated. In some programs like Tomtom , it appears that the device absolutely struggles with motion on the screen. Others have complained about sub-par video playback performance.
A petition has been started, and I am sure by now HTC have received thousands of complaints from unhappy Tytn II owners. Everyone is asking for the same thing; a set of drivers that can use the new Qualcomm hardware to its full advantage. HTC even mentions the capabilities of the new Qualcomm MSM7500™ and MSM7200™ chipsets in their press release. The press release even states that the TYTN II is based on the new dual core chipset. Yet the overall performance just doesn’t seem to compare to the manufacturers claims.
HTC’s response has been rather subdued. Their approach seems to have changed a little. At first, they didn’t seem concerned and suggested that the device worked as advertised, i.e.: it could play videos but it was essentially designed as a business tool. Only after many complaints had been made did they listen and start taking information for the performance related issues, not just the video playback.
So why won’t they develop and release the drivers as so many people have requested? Simple answer really:
Long term profit. Let me explain.
The TYTN II is one of the first HTC devices to feature the new Qualcomm chipset. Compare it to the other HTC devices that have the same Qualcomm chipset, none of their specifications are quite the same. Each device is the first generation on the new chipset for its particular niche.
We are, essentially, beta testers. We buy the latest technology, use it heavily, complain about the bugs and report our findings back to the manufacturer via blog posts, reviews and complaints. It doesn’t need to be direct feedback; the internet is full of corporate trolls. Whatever you mention about their device, no matter where it is, chances are it has been read by one of these trolls. We can’t help it; we all like to express our opinions and frustrations. Its fun discussing options and troubleshooting with others on forums and websites. The most serious complaints are taken down, and over the next couple of revisions (e.g.: Tytn III?) they are generally ironed out.
This is why the drivers are not coming. HTC are banking on those who are frustrated with their device not living up to its potential, to upgrade and buy the successor. Not the best business method by a long shot, however thanks to early adopters and geeks, it’s a profitable one.
Oh, but you won’t ever, ever buy another HTC device again? Yes, you probably will. So will I. I found it quite amusing reading posts about the new Sony Ericsson Xperia X1. Many people said that they would buy it over a HTC device, but the fact is it IS a HTC device. My bet is it will sell like hotcakes, however I bet there will be some issues that will mean it won’t live up to its full potential. Sure, the issues cited with the Tytn II (and other early HTC Qualcomm devices) will be addressed.
The introduction of new features leaves the door open for new issues. We will discuss these issues. The trolls will read these issues. The issues will be addressed in the next generation of handsets. When it comes time for a new chipset, expect a bunch of new issues and complaints to arise.
It’s the circle of consumerism.
My next device won't even be a WM one, let alone HTC's junk. I've had enough of all the stupid problems with either the hardware or the OS. Next time my contract rolls around for renewal, I'm gonna buy a plain and simple Nokia just for calls.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=368108 a proper windows mobile phone bye bye htc once my damn contract on this stupid phone ends *shakes fist*
Until such time as it's on the market and proven to be what it claims, I'll consider it just so much marsh gas; much like HTC's promises.
FloatingFatMan said:
My next device won't even be a WM one, let alone HTC's junk. I've had enough of all the stupid problems with either the hardware or the OS. Next time my contract rolls around for renewal, I'm gonna buy a plain and simple Nokia just for calls.
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definitely my way too
Are there any known MSM7xxx phones that have the video acceleration?
My suspicion is that the following happened:
HTC was one of the first manufacturers to use the MSM7xxx series
3D acceleration was a "growth feature" that needed development and HTC wanted to get the device out the door and add the video acceleration later
Broadcom sues Qualcomm over patent infringement in the MSM7xxx series
Broadcom wins suit and Qualcomm is served with an injunction forbidding it to sell or even support infringing chipsets
HTC is screwed because their vendor is now legally forbidden from providing them the support they need to implement accelerated video
HTC also does not hint at the real reason for the drivers not existing for political and/or contractual reasons
HTC's "buy a future device" comment means "we need to find something that isn't covered by the Broadcom injunction against Qualcomm"
Entropy512 said:
Are there any known MSM7xxx phones that have the video acceleration?
My suspicion is that the following happened:
HTC was one of the first manufacturers to use the MSM7xxx series
3D acceleration was a "growth feature" that needed development and HTC wanted to get the device out the door and add the video acceleration later
Broadcom sues Qualcomm over patent infringement in the MSM7xxx series
Broadcom wins suit and Qualcomm is served with an injunction forbidding it to sell or even support infringing chipsets
HTC is screwed because their vendor is now legally forbidden from providing them the support they need to implement accelerated video
HTC also does not hint at the real reason for the drivers not existing for political and/or contractual reasons
HTC's "buy a future device" comment means "we need to find something that isn't covered by the Broadcom injunction against Qualcomm"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, everything you said makes perfect sense.
Chances of Kaiser getting video drivers - ZERO
Although I respect your opinion, and you are probably right, I have to say that making HTC develop/release drivers is just one of the paths we are exploring. I believe in our case it is essential to explore every possible opportunity to get Kaiser to use it's hardware 100%. That includes lawsuit, 3rd party developing drivers, ripping drivers from another device, getting SDK from ATi/Qualcomm, etc etc.
Whatever it takes - we must explore it... even if it sounds crazy or unlikely. Besdies... it's not like we have to pay cash for every opportunity that doesn't work.
FloatingFatMan said:
My next device won't even be a WM one, let alone HTC's junk. I've had enough of all the stupid problems with either the hardware or the OS. Next time my contract rolls around for renewal, I'm gonna buy a plain and simple Nokia just for calls.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here...
DarkDvr said:
Although I respect your opinion, and you are probably right, I have to say that making HTC develop/release drivers is just one of the paths we are exploring. I believe in our case it is essential to explore every possible opportunity to get Kaiser to use it's hardware 100%. That includes lawsuit, 3rd party developing drivers, ripping drivers from another device, getting SDK from ATi/Qualcomm, etc etc.
Whatever it takes - we must explore it... even if it sounds crazy or unlikely. Besdies... it's not like we have to pay cash for every opportunity that doesn't work.
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Click to collapse
Absolutely! I would love to see one of the developers here sort out drivers, or see the drivers ripped from another device work. I have my doubts that it will happen, however it would be fantastic to be proven wrong.
Has their been any real progress towards a solution as yet though? I'm not trying to sound too negative (even if thats not how it sounds..) I've read about the LG driver rip that works / doesnt work depending on who you listen to. Has there been any proven progress to date with either developing or obtaining an SDK?
Many seem to think the Kaiser won't ever get the missing drivers. I'm a bit more optimistic in this point. I still hope that - if not HTC - at least members of this forum are some day able to (re-)engineer the necessary drivers. Am I only dreamer or what do you think? Is it that unlikely that it will happen?
Hey... I just went to Vodafone store and tried the LG KS20, i think it has the same hardware as the tytn 2 (check http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=pdacomparer&id1=733&id2=825 to compare), but doesn't looks like it suffers from the same problems as the tytn. I tried the camera and isn't more slow than a regular phone camera? Might be a solution of the problem? I don't know but it's worth checking it...
LG KS20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQEsjzHgnpA&feature=related
Shows video performance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U-w1oTQ3BA&feature=related
If Broadcomm are the ones that will prevent support, then why do XDA or HTC not approach Broadcomm for assistance instead? That may be an avenue which may yield more positive responses than going after HTC.
Pummy said:
If Broadcomm are the ones that will prevent support, then why do XDA or HTC not approach Broadcomm for assistance instead? That may be an avenue which may yield more positive responses than going after HTC.
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Click to collapse
The only Broadcomm IP in the Qualcomm chip is the technique for power backoff when there's no signal. It's like asking Honda how to get your Toyota engine to work.
Regardless of HTC's intent on this issue, the fact is they are building a "perception", at least in this forum, of poor customer support/response. This can be seen by the hyper-attention it receives at XDA. Is it justified? Some say yes, some say no. Personally, the biggest issue I have is with the lagging camera and the slow autofocus. I can't get my daughter too sit still long enough to let the camera to focus on her and get the shot I want. I can live with the slow screen rotation and even the laggy video playback. To be honest, I never expected super gaming or video from a QVGA screen... but that's just me.
That being said, perception becomes reality without response or action. HTC is playing an ill-advised hand if they think people will just buy their next product and just forget about their Kaiser/Tilt experience. This is coming from an unsatisfied ex-Axim owner.
NuShrike said:
The only Broadcomm IP in the Qualcomm chip is the technique for power backoff when there's no signal. It's like asking Honda how to get your Toyota engine to work.
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I did not know that. Looks like I will need to start reading up on the case and settlement.
As mad as I am that the drivers are not there, my tilt still blowes away my previous device, I hope for a fix, but until then I will be scoping my new device as with my last and the one before. Yes HTC will not be my prefered option, but then I will base that on what is available at the next upgrade time.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=355345&page=35
There may.. MAY come a time where we'll all actually thank and appologize to HTC, hehe. Judging by the latest article (insider interview) and supposed Peter Chou emails.. Qualcomm may be the one to blame in this, and HTC is as much of a victim of Qualcomm's hopeful lies as we are.
I'm not saying that it's true, I'm just saying that'd be a really interesting turn of events
I feel like I'm reading a crime mystery hehe.
Hi
There may.. MAY come a time where we'll all actually thank and appologize to HTC, hehe. Judging by the latest article (insider interview) and supposed Peter Chou emails.. Qualcomm may be the one to blame in this, and HTC is as much of a victim of Qualcomm's hopeful lies as we are.
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This may be true however ultimately HTC still misled it's customers using the Qualcomm feature set in PR, specifications and marketing releases. HTC will have known they were shipping the phones without the necessary drivers, but of course it would be too costly to hold back all their new models or redesign the phones around a different chipset, so they went ahead and sold them hoping no one would really notice!
HTC are making huge profits on the back of mis-advertising their latest products so it's hard for me to give very much sympathy if any at all to them They still have not made any official statement or apology to their customers, except for a rather cold and clinical statement to their shareholders. Yes I know various websites have comments from HTC regarding the matter but none of this has been put officially on their website and is just viral marketing, using the same tricks that got them in this mess in the first place.
Regards
Phil
As pointed out by DarkDvr the content of this thraed is now crossing with the content in at least two other threads:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show...355345&page=35
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=359534
Please use one of them to continue any discussion.
Thank you
Mike
Microsoft and HTC both agree on XDA-Developers "We can't live with 'em and we can't live without 'em
According to tweakers.net (dutch), a very popular and more important, trustworthy Dutch IT website.http://forum.xda-developers.com/
XDA-Developers breaches intellectual property laws regarding ROM Cooking.
However Microsoft and HTC both agree "We can't live with 'em and we can't live without 'em."
Microsoft will not send take down orders to sites such as XDA-Developers, who offer customized ROMs for windows-mobile telephone.
Some sites offering ROMs based on Windows Mobile 6.5 got take down orders last week. They, However, appeared to be hoax.
“Taking action against sites such as XDA-Developers isn’t a matter of concern for Microsoft” says Maarten Sonneveld of Microsoft Netherlands against tweakers.net. “What happens there, the modifying of ROMs, is illegal. The intellectual property however is not with us. The ROMs are intellectual property of the producers of the phone or the mobile phone providers if it concerns branded telephones. We simple only deliver the OS.”
The biggest producer of Windows Mobile-phones, HTC, also says they don’t have any plans to take action against ROM sites. “What happens there isn’t allowed” says HTC Benelux-CEO Mark Moons,
“But XDA-Developers is the biggest and most active community of Windows Mobile-developers. We can’t live with ‘em and we can’t live without ‘em.”
Last week it seemed there were to come an end to tolerating Windows Mobile-communities.
A certain ‘James Young’ sent emails on behalf of Microsoft to site managers in which he stated that they were sharing illegal content, and summoned them to stop their practices; some site managers, in fact, did this.
It mostly concerned ROMs with betas of Windows Mobile 6.5, the update of Microsoft’s Mobile OS that should appear this summer
Haha nice one
Nice, but doesn't come much as a surprise. This community is the only reason Windows Mobile is still competitive. And Microsoft knows it. Besides that, why should they bother? Other than on the desktop PC, the phone hardware is quite limited without proper drivers WM won't run on phones which weren't supposed to run it in the first place. So Microsoft sold their license, HTC (or any other manufacturer) bought it and end of story. They have absolutly no disadvantage when ppl start cooking ROMs - in the contrary. I can't even begin to image using my X1 or any other WM-phone without the customization options presented here. Without them, I wouldn't have bought another WM-phone and become a WM-fan ... ;-)
Read this on tweakers.net yesterday, don't know if we should be happy about this statement.
But it seems xda-developers is going to be watched carefully by MS and HTC, probably has been already.
Until the take serious actions against this community I'm going to flash my X1 with Touch-IT ROMs as many as possible
I would say Microsoft and HTC is the winners here. The ROM cooking means more people is attracted to the platform and for me the reason I bough the X1 was this community.
Rather than moaning, HTC and Microsoft should make donations to XDADevs because this community is one of the main reasons why both of them rose to unforeseen heights.
skycamefalling said:
Rather than moaning, HTC and Microsoft should make donations to XDADevs because this community is one of the main reasons why both of them rose to unforeseen heights.
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Totally agree with u lolz
E90 Commie said:
I would say Microsoft and HTC is the winners here. The ROM cooking means more people is attracted to the platform and for me the reason I bough the X1 was this community.
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+1
i bought my htc wizard and SE x1 because of xda-developers.if they shut rom sites down i ll never buy windows mobile device that's for sure.my phone is my home so i ll decide how will i decorate my home not microsoft.cheers
Yeah i've read that also (im dutch and visit that site 3 times a day or so )
I think that htc says "MAKE NICE ROMS XDA, or else we will.....)
I'll add my 2 pennies worth...
I'm not a cook, though I sorely wish I were! However, thanks to XDA developers, I've had WM phones for the past 5 years, up until Blue Angel I *only* would have Nokia phones, but I was given the Blue Angel as a present and hated it. I then accidentally found XDA when I was going to sell the Blue Angel and was looking for a way to unlock the sim. Figuring I had nothing to lose as I hated the phone anyway, I put a new rom on and fell in love! Since then, I've had every HTC phone and just recently went to the Xperia *ONLY* because of this website. If XDA wasn't here, I would have gotten the N96 or a Blackberry.
So, for what it is worth MS and HTC if you're reading... Leave XDA alone, support it where you can, and be happy for the generosity of this community for making the product you produce better and more usable!
the only reason I got rid of my Omina and went back to a HTC made pda was because of the support and options that I can find here, good move from microsoft however I suspect microsoft as always turned a blind eye to a degree (remember the fpt problems?)
Cool. This is a pretty big community of developers.
James Joung lives here in my neighbourhood
Now I understand why he has spent the whole week laughing
Well,
if it wern't for XDA developers, when I got my Orange c500 (Back in the day) that would have been the last WM phone I bought.
Since then ive had:
Orange c550
Orance c600
MDA Vario
HTC TYTN
HTC Touch Diamond
Sony Xperia X1
goes to show the value of XDA... if anything, I think Microsoft, HTC etc should jump on the band wagon and help chefs get the best out of WM, or at least, some kind of formal agreement should be attained to help protect the community
can't live without them(xda),hehe.. htc and microsoft should donate to support xda !
gtrab said:
James Joung lives here in my neighbourhood
Now I understand why he has spent the whole week laughing
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Maybe he was laughing because his CEO, told him that if he will try to touch this site, he will have to fill up for unemployment... This site have 41,159 members (ONLY ) and allmost all of us, we own between 2-4 HTC pda phones. If HTC will loose us, I guess that they will show the middle finger to Microsoft and they will stick with Android from the time on...
To be honest in that perverse way MS has BENEFITTED from 'Piracy' etc. throughout their history. Take Office for example - way back in the day Lotus and Wordperfect were the dominant market forces. MS were trying to force their way into the market wth their Office products. In the end they blew away the competition - how? Because their media had no copy protection - thus Office Workers ended up getting copies from work to put on their home PCs to carry on extra work at home. The others had copy protection.
MS turned a blind eye to this because they knew that the more people had Office, the more they would want it in their workplace - so much so that in the end how many companies use those products anymore? Now that they are the dominant force, Piracy is an issue.
It is the same with sites like XDA-Devs. The mobile phone market is huge and will get bigger even in these times. WinMo is still a small part of that market - Nokia and Symbian undoubtably have an edge here. However people are becoming more savvy about mobiles and want more from them which is where MS, RIM, and Apple come in (with an improving Symbian).
However if all the consumers had to rely on was 'Stock' ROMs and buggy WinMo (esp. when consumers will compare it to the iPhone etc.) then WinMo would have nowehere near the amount of consumers, and would die a slow death. However thanks to XDA-Devs (and sites like these) we can buy these phones confident that some super talented Cook will provide us with a ROM that will get us the full experience of these devices. Hence we will then buy the next generation, then the next etc.
MS and HTC know this - hence why they can't 'live without 'em'. No point cutting off your nose to spite your face eh?....
@itje
after reading the good news.. please bring back your Touch-IT WM 6.5 project rom.. hehe =)
damskie said:
@itje
after reading the good news.. please bring back your Touch-IT WM 6.5 project rom.. hehe =)
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He just did, and posted the new ROM for download.
[/offtopic]
It probably happened a month ago and I am just noticing it today (Nov 23, 2009), but it's very welcome news. For past 4 years I've been using Windows Mobile, but really thrilled to now have my HTC Hero running Android. I'm just curious when the Development & Hacking forum structure was revamped to give Android completely equal footing to the formerly "mostly just Windows Mobile HTC site"?
I hope someone will answer this question before it gets plucked away and banished to "General Discussions"
Yea, it happened probably a month ago... XDA has never intended to be locked down to just one device manufacture. at the time of XDA's creation the leader in smart phones was HTC and thus we worked with only the best (htc phones). However, now that time has passed we are seeing other smartphones begin to rival even HTC's prior superiority.
While we don't know yet the future of XDA, we hope in the future we can find a way to still provided the best Mod, hack, dev support for your favourite cutting edge phone.
Since the android platform is pretty generic for most phones that run it, meaning they have alot of base principles that tie them together, this has been created, and other sub forums, to try and reach out to the Android side and offer a place to put their mods hack and ideas that may benefit the community.
Stericson
Stericson, thanks very much -- very helpful. It fits with the understanding I'd always had --- that the forum began for modding the device actually called the XDA, which was an HTC phone. And the dominant platform was Windows Mobile.
I have been happy to see how users, all over the site, have been adapting to and including Android phones (those put out by HTC) and Android OS... and how a larger and larger group of users have asked for what you've now given: An equal-weight approach to the Android platform as well as WindowsMobile.
XDA has never intended to be locked down to just one device manufacture. at the time of XDA's creation the leader in smart phones was HTC and thus we worked with only the best (htc phones). However, now that time has passed we are seeing other smartphones begin to rival even HTC's prior superiority.
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This is interesting to read because I have never seen it expressed here before now that XDA-Developers might (... might) begin to more officially support devices made other than by HTC. 9 out of 10 times when a new registrant comes to XDA and asks "where's the forum for the Droid?", and before that, "where are the forums for the Omnia?" and "SonyEricsson?", the answer given by users is "This site is about HTC phones only" usually followed by "read the frikkin' FAQ!"...
Pushing the inclusion-boundaries of XDA-Devs, to me, is a great thing.. and an almost necessary adaptation... as the game has changed dramatically post-iphone. Given that most people in WindowsMobile land equate XDA-Devs as the ultimate go-to source for any mods and hacks on that platform, several large and separate communities have emerged to fill in new concentration-areas with Android that have appeared to be "unsupported by" or "outside the scope of" XDA-Devs. But also gven that Android rooting & modding began happening here almost immediately since HTC produced the first phones, an Android expertise exists here.
To me, now is the time to decide: does XDA officially expand to embrace the other phone makers now releasing Android phones?
Thanks for answering my question. And if you want to move this thread to a more appropriate forum, please do.
In in this New year Your Question should be answered.
There will be New Non HTC devices added to the Forums, though not in Large Scale. We won't be supported all new Smartphones coming out.
And which, well that's still a discussion being had in the General Forum