Database Develop

AT&T Tilt with new camera app testing (+)

I've used the new camera app provided by Nadavi (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=355587)
There's three videos all were taken with my AT&T Tilt (Dutty's v3 ROM). Please note that videos are in reduced "youtube" quality, they are significantly better quality in the original file. If you want the originals, I'll upload them somewhere.
First is Ballys' fountains at night. Shot on the street around 11pm:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jqJcmJc8y_s
Second is a video I took walking inside the hotel. The lighting is pretty much correct in this video, it wasn't that dark, but it definitely was dimmer than your usual work/home environment (hopefully, lol):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jZHh1Yh4zAI
Third is the video I took inside MGM Grand Hotel in Las Vegas. This is one of their night clubs. The environment is actually not as dim as video would suggest, it's was little brighter.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=q3HjDFlACNU
IMPORTANT NOTE:
Theve videos WERE NOT posted to show or prove that AT&T doesn't need proper driver. I whole-heartedly believe that IT ABSOLUTELY MUST have drivers and I will fight alongside the community for their release till the end.
THese videos were made to show that with newest Nadavi's camera app Kaiser can take pretty damn good videos and pictures.
I'd also like to ask a question - if Kaiser can take such high-fps videos when there's a bright object in the center - perhaps we need to look further into the issue of how Kaiser's camera is focusing on dim objects. There was a thread somewhere about that.

Wow, that's not too shabby at all. Was the on-screen view as quick as the recorded video while you were taking it?

fps on the screen was the same as the movie's. Not to say that i dont have extremely low fps sometimes. i can make a movie tomorrow with very low fps.... i'm just tring to get a vetter understanding of this

wow
wish my tytn II can do that

Your TyTn2 can do this. All I have that may be related my camera operation is Dutty's v3 ROM and Nadavi's camera app.

My camera is still slow as hell.. Can you tell us in details what you did to make your tilt camera fast under low light condition. i think we would all be really grateful.

which camera app? got a link?

blu3 said:
My camera is still slow as hell.. Can you tell us in details what you did to make your tilt camera fast under low light condition. i think we would all be really grateful.
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Guys, I didn't do anything. I installed the Nadavi's camera app and changed the settings a little bit. I decreased the brightness to -1.5, reduced sharpness... there's a thread in here somewhere that lists all the good specs for kaiser's camera.
The problem is that I do have the same exact problem you guys are seeing. For example, my office at work is poorly lit - it I point camera at the lamps - i got excellent fps. But when I point down, to say, my table, it reduced to about 2-5 fps. Point at my laptop - again high fps. I will post the video later.
What I'm trying to say is that there's more to this than the drivers, I feel. Why is Kaiser making excellent vids at night with few bright objects, and making horrible video with poorly lit office? As far as I can tell - there's one major difference. In first case we have no-light environment and few bright lights. In second case - whole environment is lit, but pooly, with no objects sticking out. Why is Kaiser trying to compensate in second case, and jsut makes a video in first case?
I will post the low fps video tomorrow..

laakness said:
which camera app? got a link?
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It's in the top post,
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=355587

DarkDvr said:
Guys, I didn't do anything. I installed the Nadavi's camera app and changed the settings a little bit. I decreased the brightness to -1.5, reduced sharpness... there's a thread in here somewhere that lists all the good specs for kaiser's camera.
The problem is that I do have the same exact problem you guys are seeing. For example, my office at work is poorly lit - it I point camera at the lamps - i got excellent fps. But when I point down, to say, my table, it reduced to about 2-5 fps. Point at my laptop - again high fps. I will post the video later.
What I'm trying to say is that there's more to this than the drivers, I feel. Why is Kaiser making excellent vids at night with few bright objects, and making horrible video with poorly lit office? As far as I can tell - there's one major difference. In first case we have no-light environment and few bright lights. In second case - whole environment is lit, but pooly, with no objects sticking out. Why is Kaiser trying to compensate in second case, and jsut makes a video in first case?
I will post the low fps video tomorrow..
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Click to collapse
i tried to look for the thread with all the good specs for the camera but no luck... do you remember which thread it was?

Sorry for coming on like an ass but thats the Belagio.
Thats pretty fast!! I have the app but when I record it drags everything. We should have a benchmark thread on all the big rom releases, and compare them with the app and with out, and on the OEM roms.

Here are the specs. Aside from having 3M resolution, and brightness at -1.5, mine are like his:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=361345&highlight=saturation

~~Tito~~ said:
Sorry for coming on like an ass but thats the Belagio.
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Hehe yeah I guess u're right. We visited many hotels that night.. but that's not the point!!! Lol

I usualy have 3-5FPS in video mode, but when I press the power button to get the device to the stand by mode, and wake ipt up after a few seconds the framerate increases to about 20FPS and my videos looks as good as the videos shown in the first post. Without this "trick" my videos are just crap

lol
thanks yyyyyy
but it was to be the slide wake, not pressing the power button again.
that wuz awesum i can make vids again!!!

[email protected] said:
thanks yyyyyy
but it was to be the slide wake, not pressing the power button again.
that wuz awesum i can make vids again!!!
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Could you please explain this a little more clearly?

Ok here's another video from same configuration. Notice the drastic change in FPS when brightness of the object in center changes. It seems that if u point to something bright then FPS goes up, even if its dark around it.
PS: could u elaborate on how u increase FPS by powering down/up the kaiser?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS8CsPmthg0

YYYYY said:
I usualy have 3-5FPS in video mode, but when I press the power button to get the device to the stand by mode, and wake ipt up after a few seconds the framerate increases to about 20FPS and my videos looks as good as the videos shown in the first post. Without this "trick" my videos are just crap
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow this trick actually works. To clarify for those that don't understand: When your in Camera or Video Mode click the power button on your phone and let the phone be off(Standby) for a couple seconds; when you turn it back on by pressing the same button the FPS will increase to about 20FPS.
One problem I found out is that it does not adjust the brightness anymore so everything will sometimes look too dark (at least in my room it did)
EDIT: Now I found a thread that clarify's this better than me: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=365345

The main problem with the TyTynII camera is NOT to do with any missing drivers.
It IS to do with the fact that HTC opted to have an automatically enabled 'Nightmode' when in low-light conditions. If you enable 'Nightmode' on your normal bog-standard video camera, you will get a low frame rate just the same.
HTC need to give users the option to manually select 'Nightmode' so we can then decide ourselves if we want low-framerate/high-lighting or vise-versa..
maybe in a patch or new ROM???

Farsquidge said:
The main problem with the TyTynII camera is NOT to do with any missing drivers.
It IS to do with the fact that HTC opted to have an automatically enabled 'Nightmode' when in low-light conditions. If you enable 'Nightmode' on your normal bog-standard video camera, you will get a low frame rate just the same.
HTC need to give users the option to manually select 'Nightmode' so we can then decide ourselves if we want low-framerate/high-lighting or vise-versa..
maybe in a patch or new ROM???
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Click to collapse
I completely agree. This is a very valid point. Whilst I agree that HTC misrepresented the graphics ability of this device and should be accountable for this, I am noticing an increasing trend to ascrbie most problems with the TyTN2 to the missing graphics drivers.
The danger of doing this is that investigation into other solutions will just tail off and this will go from being a developers forum to a consumers' one.
After all, if the slow IE scrolling had been written off as driver related, there wouldn't be an excellent cab floating out there that could fix it so easily!

Low FPS Camera Temporary Fix.

Ok since no one really explained how the trick of turning off then turn on the device makes the camera faster under low light condition, here is the Instructions.
1. open the camera application
2.Turn off the device by pressing the power button.( do not close camera application)
3.while pointing at a low light object (it have to be low light, what i do is cover the camera with my palm, so no light can be detected by the camera), press the power button to turn on the device, u will notice incredibly more FPS when u shoot in low light condition with no lag at all!!
This is more useful for taking videos under low light condition..(not no light condition)
to make the video brighter, after the trick. set EV to 2.0, contrast to 1. white balance to night mode.
the slow camera can clearly fixed by a software patch...

tried all variations of this theme
covered while rutning off and then on
full light when turning off, covered when turning on and vice versa
no dice here.

ahh now I get it, you don't power off the device you just puy in in sleep
works great though, I'm up from 2 fps to maybe 10
I can see why this doesn't usually happen though
now the delay is even worse than before, the seeker image is trailing way too much
my guess is HTC just settled for the lesser of two evils (ie 2 fps kind of, but nowhere near fully, synced or 10-15 fps not synced at all)

WOWWWW THATS THE WAY TO DO!
great trick!

Great trick, works fine on my stock rom Orange Tytn 2
FPS in bad light has gone from 2-3fps to what looks like over 30fps

Wow, that's pretty amazing...image is darker, but the FPS is pretty much full-motion!

WOW, how is that even possible? great find

I cant believe this!! it worked!!!! Thanks dude!!

oh hell yeah! this worked! great find my friend! great find! and actually you don't need to cover the lens, just open the camera app in a dim lit environment and put into sleep mode, then press the power button again and wah la! BIG thanks to blu3 for this major discovery!

what.. how.. why dose that work lol but it works fantastic

Whoever figured this one out deserves a medal. BIG difference in FPS on
my stock tilt.

when you guys say improves FPS what do you mean?
For taking pictures or taking videos or both????

nice! that low fps delay thing was one of the biggest peeves I had with my Tilt.
Thx!

Thanks a lot! it's works

y2flyy said:
when you guys say improves FPS what do you mean?
For taking pictures or taking videos or both????
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both, it seems with this method, it works as it should originally!

Amazing difference.
Maybe the cooks can work out a routine to do this automatically each time the camera is started.
Cheers for the heads up.

jweather said:
WOW, how is that even possible? great find
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Click to collapse
Faster fps are possible with this 'fix' because the CCD isn't trying to pull every last pixel from the shadows (which slows down frame rate). The exposure time is therefore less (you get a darker image) and the camera is then able to send information quicker to the graphics adapter which in turn can display a higher fps.
It appears through some bug, the camera thinks it is correctly exposing a scene, while it is actually under exposing.
This adds even more weight to the argument that it isn't the graphics adapter causing low fps rates on the camera, but rather the camera itself.
Nice find though.

blu3 said:
Ok since no one really explained how the trick of turning off then turn on the device makes the camera faster under low light condition, here is the Instructions.
1. open the camera application
2.Turn off the device by pressing the power button.( do not close camera application)
3.while pointing at a low light object (it have to be low light, what i do is cover the camera with my palm, so no light can be detected by the camera), press the power button to turn on the device, u will notice incredibly more FPS when u shoot in low light condition with no lag at all!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good Job, Nice find.
Simply amazing.

Sounds great! Haven't had time to try this myself yet... any input on whether it affects the quality on actual images taken? No reason why it should but one never knows

smads said:
Faster fps are possible with this 'fix' because the CCD isn't trying to pull every last pixel from the shadows (which slows down frame rate). The exposure time is therefore less (you get a darker image) and the camera is then able to send information quicker to the graphics adapter which in turn can display a higher fps.
It appears through some bug, the camera thinks it is correctly exposing a scene, while it is actually under exposing.
This adds even more weight to the argument that it isn't the graphics adapter causing low fps rates on the camera, but rather the camera itself.
Nice find though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We'll not exactly. Nightmode is a software related thing where the fps is forced to slow down to allow more light onto the CMOS sensor(not CCD in this case ). Here the software is being fooled no the hardware, if you point the cam to a bright scene yo'd see it begins working as normal, this is because night mode disables. This is for sure a software problem and not dependant on the raphic drivers. SE phones and others offer a Nightmode which is manually activated, but HTC for some reason has made it auto activated.

AT&T Tilt Camera White Color Problem (Way too bright)

Hello guys!
I have the phone for 3-4 months now, and I used the camera only 3 times.
I noticed that the white color is very bright, and the photo becomes bad (please look at the photos attached). Can you tell me if your camera is having the same problem, or it's only me ?
If it's only me - do you have idea how can I try to fix it ?
Notes:
I changed the ROM 3 times /No difference
I changed the brightness/contrast in the settings, but there is no big difference ( the photo becomes better if I use brightness+contrast = max, but still the white is very bright)

both of these images are backlit... this is very hard for the camera to do, because the foreground is a low light situation... try to adjust the angle of the shot to avoid this situation. In the attached photos I have demonstrated what I am trying to say. These are pics of my 20 year old Cocker Spaniel, Sheeba. Notice in pic 01.jpg, her face is blown out. But in the second it is actually better, and in the third (as I move further around her) her face is now clearly visible.
Remember this is a Pocket PC, with a camera chip. Not a camera with a Pocket PC attached. With that in mind, this camera does a phenomenal job!
Hope this helps!
Also it looks like your lens is dirty, and make sure that the blue plastic is pulled off inside the battery cover...
For the picture of the child tilting the camera down more would have helped the light metering compensate better, see all of the area above his head, that is where most of the metering is taking place.

here is another example

You can also try lowering the brightness down to -1.5 or to your liking. It might help a little bit (it does to me)

Thanks a lot for the tips guys!
From what I'm seeing here the Tilt has just bad camera...
My wife has Samsung U600(with 3MP camera) and the pictures are way better than the Tilt ones.I guess I'll just use her phone.
Thanks again for your help!

You should try the camera outside in the daylight with a front-lit subject before you condemn it.... post some pics from your wifes Samsung for us to view then

Here is how the camera would have metered it (photoshop profile) had you not included the area where all of the light was.

The camera does work pretty awesome with the proper lighting...

Notice in the first two, pointing the camera down, so that the car is the majority of the picture, the camera meters for the car, overexposing the sky. Put pointing the camera up underexposes the car, but the sky is brilliant blue, instead of white....

Now I am not saying that this camera doesn't have problems... on the contrary, this camera has a light leak.. which is clearly obvious when every picture taken has the same Spike in photoshop's histogram. But an ounce of prevention, in this case is truly worth a pound of cure! Play with the camera, experiment with all of the settings, find out what you like best. But most important, just pay attention to the screen and move the camera up, or down, left, or right ever so slightly and watch how the exposure changes... It won't take long before you can take great pictures with it!
Oh yeah, and clean that lens every time you use it!

Odd camera quirks

I've just come back from holiday where I found myself taking quite a few snaps with the Diamond's camera rather than my usual camera simply because it was more convenient.
I don't normally bother with PDA cameras as they're pretty much rubbish but for quick snaps the Diamond's camera is not too shabby. However, I noticed some very strange quirks:-
1. It seems to try and detect the orientation of the camera using the G-sensor and rotates the image automatically. Most of the time it gets it wrong - is there any way to stop it from doing this so I can rotate my images manually? it really messes things up in Album!
2. In really bright light (such as shooting directly towards the sun) everything goes dark blue and grainy. It's actually quite nice (I have a Holga camera so quite into that sort of thing) but I can't think of an explanation for such behaviour!
See attached for an example.
Cheers
Dave

I got a very blueish picture on a bright day (though not against sunlight) too... Though taking a picture inside then yeilded fine colors (well, average quality). Dont know what cause it, must be a flaw in the color metering.
I really wouldnt use the camera for anything other than snapshots or when you dont have a camera around. Even at 3.2mpx like my old Canon A510 (a budget entry camera, hardly anything high end), the Canon beat the living snot out of it. I wont even begin to compare it with my F40fd (again, a budget cam).
Though I must say its much, much better than my old 1.3mpx K600i phone camera, lol.

I've certainly heard that overexposure can lead to a blueish tinge. So you might want to try manually cranking down the exposure and see if that helps next time.
In this case its more than a tint though, there is pretty much no red or green in the image and the contrast is off the charts. Interesting and fun pictures though.

The Diamond camera needs a UV filter as the chip is too sensitive to the high side of the spectrum. Mine is not as bad as yours- and I was taking photographs similar to yours, perhaps there are different back covers that provide filtering- I have the original Diamond cover.

i also had blue pics when taking pics against the sun but with my 4 megapicsel casio camera. last time it happened there where also ppl, (blue) in the pic lol. so, maybe it is not a diamond related problem.
have you tried using the inbuilt setups for exposure?
if i have no other choice an have to use the diamond as a camera i am always take out the back cover. another thing to try

Thanks all for the responses. I actually quite like the blue pictures, and since the behaviour is at least predictable I'm not too bothered. Instant Holga effect
With regards to the G-sensor guessing camera orientation however that is really bugging me. And also I've noticed that the camera on-screen controls don' t flip to portrait mode either.
Cheers
Dave

davew said:
Thanks all for the responses. I actually quite like the blue pictures, and since the behaviour is at least predictable I'm not too bothered. Instant Holga effect
With regards to the G-sensor guessing camera orientation however that is really bugging me. And also I've noticed that the camera on-screen controls don' t flip to portrait mode either.
Cheers
Dave
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Yes, also i am bugged of this. I've take a shoot of a contact image with the PDA in Landscape (the photo was right in this position).
Now i have my friend photo ALWAYS rotated of 90° and, if i rotate the pda, the photo rotate itself and it's NEVER aligned.
Now i can't assign the photo until i don't rotate it by the PC

Exactly - you take the shot and then try to view it in Album. Then you end up wiggling the Diamond around to get the orientation right. In slideshows the orientation is all wrong too.
The only way to fix it that I've seen is to go into the MS "Pictures & Videos" application after taking your shots and rotate each image manually.
Most digital cameras I have ever seen just leave the image alone

Mine is also very blueish (MDA Compact IV here) and it also auto-rotates for me
Hopefully we can find a way to at least turn off the auto-rotation, with some tweaks or new camera software!

The blue-ish tinge in a normal situation is probably just the white balance being off (or overexposure as another poster pointed out).
To get those mad blue shots I had to stand in the surf at the beach and shoot directly at the sun. When I tried the same shot at sunset I got normal colours (though still some vingette effect at the edges).
Attached is a shot from the same day, same place just at sunset.

[REQ]Light Meter using light sensor

Is anybody willing to write an app that will use the light sensor as a light meter for photography? It would be very useful for us photographers here.

maybe this will work for you: http://www.freewarepocketpc.net/ppc-download-waterlevel.html
it has a light meter

no. I dont think you understood me. I need an app that will measure the intensity of light (in my case camera flash) to see if the subject will be well lit up. I need this for when I use my flash off camera and have one chance to get a shot right.

a sorry i didn't notice the meter at the bottom. ill check it out. thanks

That would be the greatest thing ever! I work in the flowerbusiness and the amount of "lux" is very important. I'd be willing to donate 25$ for this.

the one linked above doesn't work.

ooops sorry, it does work, it would be great if we could also get "lux" in

A light meter would be pretty cool. You need to take your aperture into account too you know.

Use the camera
The light sensor is not good enough to use for this purpose, why not use the camera you could get far more accurate light level readings from that, and not just ambient readings either.

Well I was thinking if I had two wireless strobes set up and measure the light in the place where the subject is I can get a reading of the light there

Yeah forget about it.
Watching the Lumos configuration while moving around, initially fascinated, the light meter either detects no light in moderately lit indoor settings, it detects 400 whatever units next to a lightbulb or 1400 in the sunlight -- the purpose of the thing is just to aid the backlight decision making and not give a photographer effective information on calculating the aperature and shutter after you plug in the ISO of the film into some PPC program some guy on XDA whipped up. It's like using the leveler bubble things in the g sensor calibrator if you're an architect or the GPS to measure the coordinates of the foundation and the altitude of the tip of the new Freedom Tower (whenever that happens).
Nice idea though, and we need ideas like this, but this one here would be about as helpful as the GClippers app is for cutting your hair.

Not if the camera were used instead though, you could have all kinds of very accurate light meter readings from that.

I have to ask... why dedicate so much effort to use the phone's camera?
The camera is terrible. Here's a comparison between my Touch Pro 3.15MP and my SE W810 2MP.
http://www.mylilsite.net/images/compare/sdtpw8v3/tpparkinglot1.jpg
http://www.mylilsite.net/images/compare/sdtpw8v3/w8parkinglot1.jpg
Not only does the TP over-saturate the colors in every single picture (of course I'm not linking all my pictures), you can tell that there are more leaves on the ground in the 2MP picture despite the TP having a (superior? nah) 3.15MP camera. Wasted pixel count, can't even match the detail of a 2MP camera.
Maybe the lack of detail in the 3.15MP picture isn't the camera's fault, but the software saving it? Regardless, I maxed out the detail settings for both phones and the end result is pretty bad for the TP.

The idea is not to use the phone camera to take the picture, just as a light meter to aid in using a more professional camera to actually take the shot. You could just tap an area of the screen and get a light reading for that area and all the relevant shutter aperture settings for a given iso. My photography days are passed now, but I did once own a very nice old weston light meter.
I guess the zeiss lens on the se must be far superior to the lens in the tp.