Related
Honorable Chefs - distinguished consumers.
www.romondemand.com/org has been registered as a strategic decision elaborating the feasibility of providing personalized Rom's to end-consumers.
The idea generated by reading to many times "can you include this' - "can you remove that" etc
So, why not offering personalized - tailor made ROM's ? Customer creates a wish-list on the webpage - available Chef -in his domain of expertise receives the order - constructs - customer downloads - Chef follow-up. Chef gets paid - happy customer with own ROM.
Simply presented, I know, but got to start somewhere no?
Would like to know the opinion of the Chef's on this idea. PM me to elaborate further on together if this is tempting or not.
And whoever thinks that a personalized ROM is crap is free to flame - punch me. I own the idea. Stupid or clever as it is.
good idea but i don't think most of the chefs here cook roms as a profession. Most of them simply do it because its a hobby and invest their time into it. If they wanted money i am sure they wouldn't post their hardwork here for others to steal
nothing wrong with that I guess. Use your skills to pay the bills
I think it's a great idea, however keep the following in mind:
1) How much you charge vs. how much people are willing to pay vs. how many people will actually use this service. Even though alot of people say "can you include this..." doesn't mean they are going to pay for someone else to do it. Alot of people on this forum will tinker themselves rather than pay the $$. Also, make sure you aren't putting too much time into this. If i ask you to build be a rom just like the stock but with App ABC built in.... you might say sure...$30! But if it takes you 3 hours to figure out how to properly integrate it...that is alot of work for $30. Plus if you can't figure it out...you get $0
2) Make sure you don't pirate anyone else's work without first asking. If I ask you for a ROM "just like Dutty's latest but with A, B, and Z" you might want to take Dutty's and update it. You will not get the best reputation here if you take Dutty's hard work and tweak it just a bit and turn it for a profit.
3) Be sure you are prepared for any legal implications. The legality of putting these ROMs up, let alone selling them is a grey area. Make sure you are ready to deal with any possible consequences.
If you got all that covered...go for it!
bengalih said:
I think it's a great idea, however keep the following in mind:
1) How much you charge vs. how much people are willing to pay vs. how many people will actually use this service. Even though alot of people say "can you include this..." doesn't mean they are going to pay for someone else to do it. Alot of people on this forum will tinker themselves rather than pay the $$. Also, make sure you aren't putting too much time into this. If i ask you to build be a rom just like the stock but with App ABC built in.... you might say sure...$30! But if it takes you 3 hours to figure out how to properly integrate it...that is alot of work for $30. Plus if you can't figure it out...you get $0
2) Make sure you don't pirate anyone else's work without first asking. If I ask you for a ROM "just like Dutty's latest but with A, B, and Z" you might want to take Dutty's and update it. You will not get the best reputation here if you take Dutty's hard work and tweak it just a bit and turn it for a profit.
3) Be sure you are prepared for any legal implications. The legality of putting these ROMs up, let alone selling them is a grey area. Make sure you are ready to deal with any possible consequences.
If you got all that covered...go for it!
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As for a legal stance you'd technically be selling your service rather than the rom itself seeing it is a customization.
CUSTEL said:
As for a legal stance you'd technically be selling your service rather than the rom itself seeing it is a customization.
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yes but you'd still be breaking HTC/AT&T/MS property rights. Again, it's a grey area...just like all of us here freely distributing them.
I don't think selling them is any worse (since you would be selling the service), but it's stil grey... and anytime money is involved it can be higher profile.
Custel , you made some valid points, though it would not be the intention to steel without authorization already cooked ROM's.
I would either see it as a Chefs-united platform where stock ROM's are used and tweaked - within the legal bounderies.
No, a MS VC would not be added for free and if so, royalties would be paid to MS.
Same counts for applic's such as coreplayer etc.
A matter of how the negotiations will go with those guys.
Purpose is for them to understand that we can integrate officialy their soft at a minimum price avoiding that plenty d-load them somewhere onon-officialy.
I do not see loosers within this set-up (yet)
No misunderstanding !
Benghali wrote : 2) Make sure you don't pirate anyone else's work without first asking. If I ask you for a ROM "just like Dutty's latest but with A, B, and Z" you might want to take Dutty's and update it. You will not get the best reputation here if you take Dutty's hard work and tweak it just a bit and turn it for a profit.
I would not even touch these ROMS and they will even not be on the website.
It would be the Chef's whom are jumping in which start with a Vanilla base and customize the ROM on demand (Customer can provide desired wallpaper - list a wich of soft - tweaks - cabs etc whatever his level of PDA understanding is)
So, no, the ROM's made by the CHEF's would not be simply refurbished.
(as this never ever happens among the chefs neither )
ceevee369 said:
Custel , you made some valid points, though it would not be the intention to steel without authorization already cooked ROM's.
I would either see it as a Chefs-united platform where stock ROM's are used and tweaked - within the legal bounderies.
No, a MS VC would not be added for free and if so, royalties would be paid to MS.
Same counts for applic's such as coreplayer etc.
A matter of how the negotiations will go with those guys.
Purpose is for them to understand that we can integrate officialy their soft at a minimum price avoiding that plenty d-load them somewhere onon-officialy.
I do not see loosers within this set-up (yet)
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Just pointing out that I made all those original posts, Custel was just quoting me. But, more importantly...you talk about doing thing within "legal boundaries."
There are no legal boundaries for cooking ROMs. It is against all HTC/MS/AT&T licensing agreements to decompile, modify, and redistribute their code (and for profit nonetheless!).
You seem to be approaching this as a legitimate business venture where you will pay royalties to various manufacturers. I don't want to put down your idea, but unless you have some major connections at some very big corporations, this idea would not even be entertained.
Anything you do would pretty much be regulated fully by yourself. MS isn't going to license VC command to you. Other smaller software companies may play along, but to be honest such a licensing structure for an endeavor like this probably is overkill.
You also seem to be thinking of not just making these ROMs yourself, but brokering it out to multiple chefs who will be taking orders. Again, it could work, but is ambitious to lay out a structure like this.
Again, I like your idea...I just don't know how realistic it is based on the amount of transactions you would be performing. And, please remember if you actually achieved such a structure, your site and services would surely be put out there and would draw attention from the major vendors who would probably investigate and send you cease-and-desists. Remember, the whole act of cooking and distibuting copyrighted ROMs is not withing the agreements of the vendors.
bengalih said:
I think it's a great idea, however keep the following in mind:
1) How much you charge vs. how much people are willing to pay vs. how many people will actually use this service. Even though alot of people say "can you include this..." doesn't mean they are going to pay for someone else to do it. Alot of people on this forum will tinker themselves rather than pay the $$. Also, make sure you aren't putting too much time into this. If i ask you to build be a rom just like the stock but with App ABC built in.... you might say sure...$30! But if it takes you 3 hours to figure out how to properly integrate it...that is alot of work for $30. Plus if you can't figure it out...you get $0
2) Make sure you don't pirate anyone else's work without first asking. If I ask you for a ROM "just like Dutty's latest but with A, B, and Z" you might want to take Dutty's and update it. You will not get the best reputation here if you take Dutty's hard work and tweak it just a bit and turn it for a profit.
3) Be sure you are prepared for any legal implications. The legality of putting these ROMs up, let alone selling them is a grey area. Make sure you are ready to deal with any possible consequences.
If you got all that covered...go for it!
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Click to collapse
Not too mention that Dutty, & a few other chef's remove all the RGU's. So unless the creator is the one helping you, prepare to spend a lot of time digging out the defunct dsm files from the rom.
I think it's an okay, don't get me wrong, there are a lot of people that are clueless about this stuff & still want things there way, but you hardly own the idea. The idea is what gave birth to this forum, & if you have been here for any length of time you'll see that people here have in some instances paid others to make or customize roms for them in the past.
I also don't think you'll get away with charging much for your "Service", as the hard work, all the coding, was already done by MS & HTC. Thinking that you'd get MS to sanction this is wishful. Remember, MS at one point stopped XDA from distributing their roms, & one of the big reasons it turns it's head today is because of all of the free bug fixes & beta testing they get out of this community. If your just selling roms, ahem...services, then you'll likely not be any source of needed data for them & there will be no reason to let you keep going at it.
Customizing already customized roms gets even grayer, because now you have artwork & custom icons that were created by members specifically for certain chefs, i.e. Collinssc frequently does custom art for Dutty's roms.
Again, there is a lot of stuff to work thru here, & several are pretty serious, such as licensing that already prohibits distribution, not to mention all of the required technical support & while you can use all the disclaimers in the world, that won't stop someone from sueing you when their device bricks. Take a look at all of the cooked rom threads, some have thousands upon thousands of little bug complaints, that adds up to a lot of hours when you have made a lot of individual changes to a rom & it's not always the chef that comes up with the solution for the bugs. I personally never used a Dutty rom because I couldn't use MediaNet & BBC at the same time, but I wanted to, so I disected several ROM's & found the issue & the fix. Same with certain roms & TCPMP. Multiply these issues by the number of each user personal taste in apps &, well you see my point.
I'm a red blooded capitalist thru & thru, so I say go for it, but there'll be no easy money made here. It'll take a lot of time to get any coordinated effort involving so many variables off & running. Good luck.
It's a shame this idea has been shot down already because I wanted to know how much it was going to cost. Hell, I have three other friends that would be interested in buying a ROM. Sometimes, people would rather hire someone with experience.
bennyj71 said:
It's a shame this idea has been shot down already because I wanted to know how much it was going to cost. Hell, I have three other friends that would be interested in buying a ROM. Sometimes, people would rather hire someone with experience.
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the idea still lives but needs further investigation and I want to know the Chef's view on this first.
Will come back with more news.
i already found Taiwanese web builder understanding the complexity but thinks it is more than feasible to build a platform fitting the needs.
Yes, you developers need to eat!
Yes, you should be paid to work!
But PLEASE think about how much you are charging. What exactly are you charging X amount for?
If you are not careful, you will do nothing but promote the Piracy of applications. I don't think you would find that acceptable, if everyone stole your work. Please just remember, that you are working on an OPEN SOURCE device. So when you take a bunch of files, do minor editing, and slap 2.99 on it, it is not worth it.
PLEASE use your brain for more then just code. THINK about the people that don't code, and think - are they going to spend $100-300 to buy all the apps for their phones? If they don't think they are getting the value, people WILL steal. Just look at the music industry!
THIS does not mean that you should just make everything free. This does mean that if you spent 10 min's making a new search bar widget (dxTop) that you probably shouldn't charge for it.
If I am wrong, please tell me, and tell me why.
Well, since you have 24 hours to return them, what's the problem?
I mean, anything under $3,- who cares? That's less than a coffee at Starbucks, when all is said and done.
I'm a video game engineer and web developer, and I charge poeople around $20/hour for my services, so if someone spends 15 minutes building an app to better your uses, then $3 I can understand. Now, I don't think a lot of the apps are worth the money because it really isnt THAT much work to do, and when you had no problem offering it for free, to now charge? Donating, thats no problem. But you shouldn't force those to buy it. Programs like BetterCut, we not available prior to paid app releases, and apposed to anycut, has multiple new and truley great features that I will in a heart beat pay $3.00.
Spending the money isn't the problem for me, $10 on an app, who cares. It's only 10 bucks. However, I just don't like the way developers went about making paying for apps a neccessity, and turning their old versions into trials. And then starting to restrict features.
When its all said and done I mean, guess there isn't much I can do but *****. If I want the app I'll buy it, I've already got 15-20 apps I've paid for so far because I find them to be necessities worth my cash. It's just stupid how it goes down.
I don't mind for people charging for apps. I haven't found the need to buy any apps yet because I haven't seen an app that interests me enough to buy it. There are a lot of apps out there and a bunch of them are getting crap reviews. I think the market just needs some time to find out what prices work and what don't. And it seems like when a good app concept comes out, another dev makes a few version.
I totally agree with you q426669,they are releasing a bunch of ****ty apps,sorry about the ****ty part....and I know you guys are busy and it´s your time.....etc....etc..When I first listened about the paid apps I was very excited thinking....cool we´re gonna start seeing nice apps,but as of now I am getting tired of stupid joke apps,flashlights etc....I don´t even feel like trying any app out,and yes I am willing to pay like I used to do with Windows Mobile.
Gonna be real interesting with the Blackberry App Store.....their lowest price starts at $3.
Anyone who buys a paid wallpaper/ringtone app deserves what they get lol. They are all out there if people search for them. I cant understand for the life of me why people have bought the paid flashlight app but ok. Developers take the time to make them so I will pay for it if its something I really want, no problem. I agree though that the apps and games coming out are pretty lame but i just ignore them. People whining about a .99 cent app are ridiculous to me, how much money do you waste on fast food and other stuff you don't need? Take that 5 bucks for your burger king and get a few cool games or apps to deck out your phone! As far as piracy of stuff its gonna happen no matter how much people charge, nothing anyone can do about it. I think making demo versions though will help cut piracy down a little.
Today, when I went to Sakajati's website to check the release of his new WM6.5 ROM, I was totally depressed and completely lost the mood to flash this brand new ROM, after I read this brief intro:
sakajati
May 4th, 2009 at 5:59 am
Sorry guys for being away, I’ve been under stress due to financial problem. The business is getting worse and worse, I’m afraid I won’t be able to support this website anymore and may also have to sell my device (God I hope this won’t happend). To all hyperdragon users, please consider to support/donate, it may help me so I don’t have to sell this crapy device. Thanks in advance! Enjoy this new rom and let me know for any bugs you found!
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It was exactly the same feeling when yesterday I passed by Mirko Schenk's website and read this:
I aten't ded (12/05/2008, 10:00 PM)
Yeah, I know, I'm a bit slow with updates recently. Somehow, when I wasn't missing free time, all too often I was missing motivation (no, that's not begging for donations) to struggly with the pitfalls of programming after I struggled with them in my job before. And this even though there's currently no girl friend that threadens me when I'd spend more time on my PC than with her. (But admitted, she'd probably wouldn't need to threaden me... )
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Sakajati, a famouse ROM cooker for Kaiser, his Hyperdragon ROM thread in this forum has received 11,178 repplies and 1,574,596 views up to now. Yes, not mistaken, it's more than 1.5 milllion views. Is he brilliant? The numbers speak for themselves.
Mirko Schenk, the name may not much known to public. But if I talk about Mort, every chefs here knows who he is. One of his small programs named 'Mortscript' is now cooked in many of the custom ROMs on this site. Is he brilliant? You can ask every chef here, I guess you'll get the same answer:'Yes, he is VERY brillant.'
These two guys are only examples of many of the brilliant stars here. They all have these two same characters as I know: First, their softwares are all FREE. I.e, they supply free service to pubic without asking any material support from users. Second, I am regret to say, they are all VERY POOR now.
Well, I believe, that the initial puppose of their developing these wares are not for money. I also believe that they would like to continue this cause even if they can not receive one single coin from it, even if they maintain a poor living condition for his own life, they just enjoy it.
On the other hand, have to say this: It is ULTIMATE FORTUNE for a man, that in his life he can find something he likes, he is good at, he did it, and finally he fighted to clime to top of the line. BUT, it is an ULTIMATE UNFORTUNE for him that after he did this, he only found his life is 'worsen and worsen'.
Yes a man's value is not only reallize his own joy, he also has to be responsible for his beloves, his family, his girlfiend, or even his pet. This is the reason they may decide to drop this loved cause and find something else to do. And finally they may be driven out from this society.
Now the question comes: Can we do something to rescue them out of this situation?
Yes, we can donate to their PayPal account.
BUT, to donate to a paypal account is not always convienient for everybody that want to help them.
Actually, there are other much better ways, but the forum rules here does not support it. Like this: Why not allow them to put a simple advertisement on their signature?
Like this one (I found in this thread):
iPhone ... its a maxipad without wings!
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So that viewers can support them by a simple click of their mouse, which will bring a small money for them? Say in Sakajati's case, he has 1.5 million viewers, onlyif 10% of viewers would make a click on the ad, and only if each click can just bring $0.1 for them. That will collect to an amount of $15,000. Which will greatly enhance their life, at lest let them keep the 'crapy device'.
Don't tell me this is impossible for this forum. We have so many super-smart brains here. Actually can set some rules or systems to avoid any 'side effects' of it, like rules on the size, layout, postion, etc of the ad. Who can use it, who can not etc.
Yes, this great forum place should become a worm home for all telents in this line.
MODs: Can you discuss on this issue?
First let me say this is all very sad. Though I never use MortScript, I do sometimes run Sakajati's ROM.
There are unfortunately some issues with what you propose.
While I love XDA-Developers.com (primarily for its people and community), the board owners are not exactly known for 'making things happen'.
Second, clicking ads to "support someone" is a surefire way to get booted from the ad network. This is a definite no in the ad-world and against all regulations. Besides, all this does is move money from businesses who pay for those advertisements to freeware developers, while the users skimp on the cash again, and those who pay for advert gain nothing - you just click to support, not because you are interested in the ad product. So you rise prices for businesses trying to sell something. In turn this will make their products more expensive, you hurt the business and their consumers, and you have gained nothing. Its frowned upon for good reason.
Right now the best and quickest solution is probably still a PayPal rally. Frequent users should simply just donate a few bucks (remember when PayPal'ing, donate at least $2.50 or so or so much will be lost by the money they take, it's hardly worth donating at all). I have been thinking of a solution for this for years, even before I joined the WM community. I may have thought of something but unfortunately right now do not have the time to set up - however it will remain on my to-do list.
Chainfire said:
First let me say this is all very sad. Though I never use MortScript, I do sometimes run Sakajati's ROM.
There are unfortunately some issues with what you propose.
While I love XDA-Developers.com (primarily for its people and community), the board owners are not exactly known for 'making things happen'.
Second, clicking ads to "support someone" is a surefire way to get booted from the ad network. This is a definite no in the ad-world and against all regulations. Besides, all this does is move money from businesses who pay for those advertisements to freeware developers, while the users skimp on the cash again, and those who pay for advert gain nothing - you just click to support, not because you are interested in the ad product. So you rise prices for businesses trying to sell something. In turn this will make their products more expensive, you hurt the business and their consumers, and you have gained nothing. Its frowned upon for good reason.
Right now the best and quickest solution is probably still a PayPal rally. Frequent users should simply just donate a few bucks (remember when PayPal'ing, donate at least $2.50 or so or so much will be lost by the money they take, it's hardly worth donating at all). I have been thinking of a solution for this for years, even before I joined the WM community. I may have thought of something but unfortunately right now do not have the time to set up - however it will remain on my to-do list.
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Thank for your attention on tjis issue. There must be a solution for that, at least not 'completely impossible.
But the circut of money in 'ads' industry. Is just like 'everybody follow the rules here'.
Since the activities concerning 'advertising' may become a key factor in judgement of this issue. Here I add some more info. There are books about 'advertisement', or lots of internet materials available, but probably not everyone has time to read it. Let me just tell what is advertisement in this simple way:
The major target of ads is not to reach people who want the product, because people wants it already knows it. It is targeted to those people who doesn't want it, or even doesn't know it. Advertisement will let them know the product, and MAKE (sorry I use this word) them reallize that they want it.
This is why ads sponsors would be glad to pay even for a mouse click and a slight glance at what they are advertising. At least this make the clicker have a short memery about their brand name, or their product idea.
After read this, you may feel somehow uncomfortble about 'ads'. But sorry, this is just the prevailing commercial activity.
Please Post Your Comments on This Issue!
Anybody pass by here and reading this, if you have some opinion, comments, or different idea about this issue, please post here.
Maybe you are freeware developer, or commercial software developer, or common user, or moderator, it doesn't matter. What I'm thinking about is not trying to persuade the forum board to issue a new advertising policy, really need to be concerned is how to help those GREAT freeware developers OUT. Avertisement is just the best way that I can figure out by myself. But maybe you guys have better idea about this issue.
Here appeal to everybody:
If you are using a freeware, and find it's really helpful, or may bring additional conveineince and joy to your life. Please think about the life of the developer of the freeware. And first please consider a DONATION to them, if you can not, please think about what else you can do.
Everybody please leave your voice here, maybe we can work out a way together!
Also put a post about up on myblog (spam, not finished yet). Who knows maybe it will even help.
I'll be making a serious donation myself. I hope others will do the same.
Chainfire said:
Also put a post about up on myblog (spam, not finished yet). Who knows maybe it will even help.
I'll be making a serious donation myself. I hope others will do the same.
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Certainly yours will be a nice place with lots of chef want to take a look. I went there and found some projects not known to me in the past. Before I only know WMWifiRouter's from you, later WMLongLife, but that's already enough to call you a Master. Now you're master++.
Also noted that you already sent donation confirmation code on Sakajati's site.
You built a nice blog.
Hi, I'm coming to this forum to ask my question 1. Because I know there are a lot of tech-savvy people here and 2. Because I'm on these forums a lot.
I guess my general question is: what is the best IT field to get into now? I really like programming, but I read a couple or places that its projected to go down by 4% from now til 2018ish.
But I read elsewhere that computer engineering is growing rapidly.
I'm 19 years old now, about to start college soon and want to pick a good field in. Something that can defenitely pay good as well.
And I know there's a lot of cross knowledge about IT.
But what's the best IT field tp get into?
Sent from my PG06100 using XDA App
Bump
Sent from my PG06100 using XDA App
I am a Network Engineer. I think it is a pretty good field, if you don't mind the late nights, and other things. The Networks are the furthest behind right now, and we need competent Engineers to build and run them.
i agree with above..
I agree, however getting companies to spend money on talent and equipment is hard. Its like years ago before companies spent on backups. They wont spend till it bites them.
troubleshot said:
I agree, however getting companies to spend money on talent and equipment is hard. Its like years ago before companies spent on backups. They wont spend till it bites them.
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Correct. Working for a Vendor, I see this all the time. It is hard to tell a company that they need new switches every 5 years, especially in this economic time.
The big pusher will be IPv6. That is forcing a lot of companies to look at their infrastructure today. They have this feeling they will be left behind if they aren't IPv6 ready by the end of this year. At least on my view of things - that is the only reason Enterprise side businesses are buying new Routers/Switches.
Enraged21 said:
Hi, I'm coming to this forum to ask my question 1. Because I know there are a lot of tech-savvy people here and 2. Because I'm on these forums a lot.
I guess my general question is: what is the best IT field to get into now? I really like programming, but I read a couple or places that its projected to go down by 4% from now til 2018ish.
But I read elsewhere that computer engineering is growing rapidly.
I'm 19 years old now, about to start college soon and want to pick a good field in. Something that can defenitely pay good as well.
And I know there's a lot of cross knowledge about IT.
But what's the best IT field tp get into?
Sent from my PG06100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem with Network Engineering is there is no degree for it. It is a lot of self knowledge and self learning.
Take your Juniper Certifications or Cisco Certifications. Buy books on BGP, OSPF, IS-IS, IPv6, etc.....
Download software to run labs at your house....build a cheap Cisco lab as well.
GNS3 is a good Cisco network simulator.
I know this isn't the advice you're looking for - but I'm going to give you the advice I wish somebody gave me when I was 18.
Screw the market predictions, screw the salary ceilings, screw the skill demand. Find something you really dig and the rest is going to fall into place.
I spent 7 years as a software developer. I got paid far more than I was probably worth, had loads of perks, and life was good. Problem was I didn't get any satisfaction out of writing code anymore (not sure that I ever really did). It took me a long time to figure out, but in the end you're going to spend 40 hours (or often 60 in tech careers) a week doing something for the rest of your working life. Your quality of life is going to improved much, much more by genuinely enjoying those 40-60 hours each week than it will by bringing home 90K/yr. Believe me.
At 29 I took about a $25K/yr pay cut and "started over" as a web/ui designer in a new company. It's one of the best choices I'd ever made - I just wish I'd made it when I was much younger. My life would have been much easier.
Isn't a degree worth more than a certificate?
I'd rather spend more time in school getting a degree rather than doing it quick and getting a certificate.
MickMcGeough said:
I know this isn't the advice you're looking for - but I'm going to give you the advice I wish somebody gave me when I was 18.
Screw the market predictions, screw the salary ceilings, screw the skill demand. Find something you really dig and the rest is going to fall into place.
I spent 7 years as a software developer. I got paid far more than I was probably worth, had loads of perks, and life was good. Problem was I didn't get any satisfaction out of writing code anymore (not sure that I ever really did). It took me a long time to figure out, but in the end you're going to spend 40 hours (or often 60 in tech careers) a week doing something for the rest of your working life. Your quality of life is going to improved much, much more by genuinely enjoying those 40-60 hours each week than it will by bringing home 90K/yr. Believe me.
At 29 I took about a $25K/yr pay cut and "started over" as a web/ui designer in a new company. It's one of the best choices I'd ever made - I just wish I'd made it when I was much younger. My life would have been much easier.
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I know, people are always telling me that. And I'm always open to hearing peoples opinion. I actually would love to do a field in IT... Just don't know what exactly I want. Like I said, I like programming, computer science, etc., but there not gonna need alot of programmers in the near future. My friend is actually a network engineer and makes good money, but I know he'd rather be doing something else.
As for me, I've been doing jack **** for the last two years. I would actually love to spend 40 to 60 hours a week keeping my hands and brains busy.
So I might look into Engineering.. cause that's what it looks like its going into.
I know if it's something with tech involved, I probably won't love it, but I would like it. Better than doing anything else.
2 of the fields I'm looking into:
Computer Engineering Technology (Networking)
Computer Programming and Analysis.
your inputs?
Enraged21 said:
Isn't a degree worth more than a certificate?
I'd rather spend more time in school getting a degree rather than doing it quick and getting a certificate.
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Depends. The way I see it (being in the field) If you want to stay on the Engineering side of things and don't have an interest in being Managerial, then Certs + Time In the Field = More Money than Degree.
If you think Certs are the easy way - then you haven't taken any of the tests. If you want to get into Networking you have to have Certs. Then get a job working in a NOC, or for a smaller ISP. Then you work up.
I'm a field engineer so I go to clients' sites and support their IT/resolve their IT problems.
Being a jack of all trades really helps, and having the right mind is a godsend.
Being able to think on your feet to come up with solutions with very few resources, having high google skills also helps, and a resourceful memory for niggly little problems.
In my experience computer degrees are pointless, industry qualifications actually have value as they bring benefits to companies such as partnership programs.
Whats going to be more appealing to customers? "We have 5 engineers with degrees" or "We're a Microsoft Gold Partner" see what I mean?
The more qualifications you get the more you can ask for in salary.
Contracting is where the real money is, you can get paid stupid amounts of money for doing simple things.
I was getting £200 a day on one contract to just create new users and run reports.
so what you guys are saying is,
it's better to be certified in many fields and work my way up rather than getting a degree in a specific field?
Enraged21 said:
so what you guys are saying is,
it's better to be certified in many fields and work my way up rather than getting a degree in a specific field?
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Yes. And pick a field you enjoy too.
alright. I appreciate your advice.
When I try to pick my major in college, I'm listed 3 choices ( All Computer Engineering )
Cisco Specialization
Microsoft Specialization
Cyber Security and Digital Forensics Specialization
Out of all those three fields? which one would be the best to "specialize" in?
They also have two other fields available which are computer programming and analysis, and computer information technology. Too many people in CPA and they won't need them in the near future. CIT is too broad. And I don't really know about that.
Another approach which might be a bit different is if you can scrape up the money to go to a conference or two, that may give you some insight on the different areas of IT and may help guide you on what you may or may not like. Virtualization is huge now due to the whole "cloud computing" thing. Microsoft/Active Directory/Exchange-type environments are widely used, so any experience there should guarantee you a job and an employee in a company or a solutions architect if you can design that infrastructure... or support for that type of environment which would be a first step in that field. I always believed that if you're the type that's into programming, you'll know it early on. The hard part like others have said is choosing what sub-field you want to specialize in (or that you enjoy).
No matter where you go, things can get pretty deep. I know a few people who chose to be project managers and make a good living not knowing anything technical - just the logistics of it all.
If you are going to get into general IT - to start with stick to CSCO and MSFT.
You can't go wrong with acquiring certs from either. While it doesn't hurt to know both - at some point you will find you either like to design and support the network (CSCO). Or you like to do AD, LDAP, Server type of stuff (MSFT).
If you wanted mine on which to chose of the 3 you have, I would suggest trying to get internships at each one, to see which you like. College is expensive, and you don't want to have to go back multiple times, because the degree you got wasn't something you liked.
Take an Internship at a smaller ISP. This will give you a chance to check out both the Network (CSCO) side of things, and Systems (MSFT/Linux/BSD) side of things. Most larger companies (Fortune 500) will split it up like this anyways, as it is too much to wear both hats. So you will have your team of Network Engineer's and your team of Systems Engineers/Admins who generally all report up to a single director/vp.
Don't really have the money or the time to intern. That's why I came seeking advice.
Sent from my PG06100 using XDA App
Two fields spring immediately to mind. Computer Forensics and Computer Security.
Both growth industries and interesting too i imagine.
I'll try to make this my last rant here.
I know you came here asking for advice - but I hope you understand that all advice is necessarily autobiographical.
A lot will disagree with me here, but degrees and certs are worth little. Good instruction is infinitely valuable, demonstrable skills are infinitely valuable, and you can get those in post-secondary schooling, but the piece of paper itself will only help you get your first job, when you have no experience, and the person hiring you is either too lazy to verify your skills, or is unable to do so.
Probably the best developer I ever hired was entirely self-taught. The worst was one of the most highly-educated individuals I'd ever interviewed.
I don't know where you got your information about the software development market drying up but I think you're making too big a deal out of it. I cannot fathom a future in which a good software developer's skills are obsolete. You'll have to switch languages/environments many times in your career, but if you dig coding, just go be the best coder you can.
I implore you, try out some different stuff in school and stick to whatever it is that gets your motor going. Don't worry about a 4% market downturn or what industries might grow. Nobody can predict more than 5-10 years away, and you're going to be doing whatever it is you choose for 30-40 years.
In regards to the what seems to be a disturbing trend in forcing people to "Buy" their hacks. (If You Wish To Use Them)
I was going to write a big long rambling post about it but i think the link below sums it up pretty good.
I think we have lost our way somewhere along the path.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_ethic#The_hacker_ethics
no one is forcing any one to buy anything. this root product didn't cost $0 on the developers end, especially in terms of time. if i put that much time and effort into a product, i would like to be compensated as well. if you don't want to pay the fee, then you don't get root. you were the one that knowingly bought a phone that didn't have an unlockable bootloader and didn't have root. having root and/or bootloader unlock on locked phones is not a right.
koftheworld said:
no one is forcing any one to buy anything. this root product didn't cost $0 on the developers end, especially in terms of time. if i put that much time and effort into a product, i would like to be compensated as well. if you don't want to pay the fee, then you don't get root. you were the one that knowingly bought a phone that didn't have an unlockable bootloader and didn't have root. having root and/or bootloader unlock on locked phones is not a right.
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I think your missing the point ... you even read the wiki article or just the first line of the post and go OMGMYYOUSOUNGRATEFUL lol
I didn't even read the article that you linked, however, I'd like to remind you that no one is forcing you to purchase anything? This is true with anything and everything. That's the problem with today's society, instant gratification and on the flip-side, a person's perceived right of entitlement. I say this all the time, if you don't like something, vote with your wallet. That goes for anything. I can't stand the fact that athletes and team owners make the amount of money they do, so I no longer pay to go to an event. I no longer pay to purchase swag, etc. I vote with my wallet.
Same here. If people have an issue with being charged for (I can't even call it root access), then don't buy it. It's really that simple.
You are correct... poor choice of words in the first line ... They are not Forcing me to do anything. But please try to see past my poor wording and realize the point.... Hacker Ethic ... hack the planet ...free the world ... not OMG i can make money of this! lol
Akrifay said:
I think your missing the point ... you even read the wiki article or just the first line of the post and go OMGMYYOUSOUNGRATEFUL lol
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Of course I read the post. This is not the golden age of android hacking anymore. Everyone is looking to monetize due to the complexity of actually getting root/bootloader unlock as compared to how the OS was in the beginning. The community, the phones, and the OS were much different in the beginning. At this point in time, I think people who don't have these skills and willingly purchased locked down devices should have their wallets open if they want anything. Maybe with the next big OS we'll see a return to "hacker ethics", but now it's about getting paid for you think your work is worth.
Why is it disturbing that you pay for their time and effort working on this? The Sunshine team spent countless ours and bricked countless devices to develop Sunshine. Should they bear the burden just so you can freely use the fruits of their labor?
What I think is disturbing is that people expect hackers and developers to do things for free. They don't have to do what they do. They don't have to put up with rude users (not referring to you). They don't have to release their work to the public. They don't have to reply to countless posts, PMs, and emails. It is a bunch of time they pit into this.
But, but, but...it's their hobby, they like doing it. I like working on cars as a hobby, but it doesn't mean I should change everyone's oil for free.
But, but but...releasing their methods benefits the android community as a whole. Making me give away my time and effort for the good of the community sounds like socialism.
Your reference to the hacking ethics forgets the assumption that other hackers are sharing their work too. Where is your share of the code that you're working on to benefit the hackers? Since there is no code of yours to share you can contribute monetarily, if they require it.
Akrifay said:
You are correct... poor choice of words in the first line ... They are not Forcing me to do anything. But please try to see past my poor wording and realize the point.... Hacker Ethic ... hack the planet ...free the world ... not OMG i can make money of this! lol
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I understand where you are coming from. There are still those that do imbibe those ideals, but most of them have disappeared into nexus land or have taken jobs outside of XDA (like Hash).
Akrifay said:
I think your missing the point ... you even read the wiki article or just the first line of the post and go OMGMYYOUSOUNGRATEFUL lol
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Ethics are not rules. You can follow them or not, its up to the individual. That being said, it does say "Information should be free", not that they should work for free. If maiko1 decides to publish information on the exploit he found, i guess that would be following ethics. He doesnt have to create a tool that does the work and release it for free. Hackers still have jobs. they have to buy food and pay rent. Many times hackers will find exploits and leverage them against companies for larger payouts or even a full time gig. In that light, I'm glad he released it, even if it is at a cost, because there's a real chance we might have never seen the exploit.
Munkee915 said:
Ethics are not rules. You can follow them or not, its up to the individual. That being said, it does say "Information should be free", not that they should work for free. If maiko1 decides to publish information on the exploit he found, i guess that would be following ethics. He doesnt have to create a tool that does the work and release it for free. Hackers still have jobs. they have to buy food and pay rent. Many times hackers will find exploits and leverage them against companies for larger payouts or even a full time gig. In that light, I'm glad he released it, even if it is at a cost, because there's a real chance we might have never seen the exploit.
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I had never thought/considered that, but it makes sense.
orangechoochoo said:
Why is it disturbing that you pay for their time and effort working on this? The Sunshine team spent countless ours and bricked countless devices to develop Sunshine. Should they bear the burden just so you can freely use the fruits of their labor?
What I think is disturbing is that people expect hackers and developers to do things for free. They don't have to do what they do. They don't have to put up with rude users (not referring to you). They don't have to release their work to the public. They don't have to reply to countless posts, PMs, and emails. It is a bunch of time they pit into this.
But, but, but...it's their hobby, they like doing it. I like working on cars as a hobby, but it doesn't mean I should change everyone's oil for free.
But, but but...releasing their methods benefits the android community as a whole. Making me give away my time and effort for the good of the community sounds like socialism.
Your reference to the hacking ethics forgets the assumption that other hackers are sharing their work too. Where is your share of the code that you're working on to benefit the hackers? Since there is no code of yours to share you can contribute monetarily, if they require it.
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I have contributed to many a Dev over the years... I am not a Dev per say ... But i believe i am a Hacker by the true definition ... just happens not to be Android Software that i hack. It is amazing work that they do and i am very appreciative for it. But leave it up to the individual to "donate" ... I dont know guess im just an old schooler in a new schooler world lol
Munkee915 said:
Ethics are not rules. You can follow them or not, its up to the individual. That being said, it does say "Information should be free", not that they should work for free. If maiko1 decides to publish information on the exploit he found, i guess that would be following ethics. He doesnt have to create a tool that does the work and release it for free. Hackers still have jobs. they have to buy food and pay rent. Many times hackers will find exploits and leverage them against companies for larger payouts or even a full time gig. In that light, I'm glad he released it, even if it is at a cost, because there's a real chance we might have never seen the exploit.
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Oh I know! This is great! ABSOLUTELY Ethics are Subjective 100% I agree with you totally ... i guess it just boils down to your definition of right and wrong... Hey i hope he makes a ton of money off it i really do ... Just by my definition i have in MY head i consider it ethically wrong ... IMO hehe
I'm all for supporting the devs for their hard work and time. However, I think whats trying to be communicated here is the change in mindset that we have moved to a format of people willing to donate for a project vs. making it mandatory. Again while I do feel those who do the work should get compensated, I am kinda of disappointed in the idea of an X amount of $$. The bounty was set up so people can donate what they can to the project. There will be many people who are willing to pay money but not $20, others may be willing to pay more. With a mandatory set amount you tend to alienate some of the community. Things have changed and it is getting harder to root devices. I know it takes more work. I acknowledge this. However, it does feel that overall sense of community is suffering as a result. I respect the Dev's decision in how to release the root method. However, I am one who will not be rooting my device because my needs just don't require it and therefor I don't feel it would be worth $20 for me to have root. That's just me though.
Symbiontsoul said:
I'm all for supporting the devs for their hard work and time. However, I think whats trying to be communicated here is the change in mindset that we have moved to a format of people willing to donate for a project vs. making it mandatory. Again while I do feel those who do the work should get compensated, I am kinda of disappointed in the idea of an X amount of $$. The bounty was set up so people can donate what they can to the project. There will be many people who are willing to pay money but not $20, others may be willing to pay more. With a mandatory set amount you tend to alienate some of the community. Things have changed and it is getting harder to root devices. I know it takes more work. I acknowledge this. However, it does feel that overall sense of community is suffering as a result. I respect the Dev's decision in how to release the root method. However, I am one who will not be rooting my device because my needs just don't require it and therefor I don't feel it would be worth $20 for me to have root. That's just me though.
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Yay im getting through! lol
I forgot about the bounty. Did the guy get it? If so, then I it's odd that he is asking for additional payment too.
Edit- I see that the root bounty thread was closed be cause the rooter is requiring $20 payment t instead.
wow, XDA sure has changed over the years.
Akrifay said:
In regards to the what seems to be a disturbing trend in forcing people to "Buy" their hacks. (If You Wish To Use Them)
I was going to write a big long rambling post about it but i think the link below sums it up pretty good.
I think we have lost our way somewhere along the path.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_ethic#The_hacker_ethics
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If I am to agree with you, I would like to see your free hack/exploit contribution to the community.
You aren't paying for a root method. The root method is explained. You're paying for the product that does it for you.
Akrifay said:
Oh I know! This is great! ABSOLUTELY Ethics are Subjective 100% I agree with you totally ... i guess it just boils down to your definition of right and wrong... Hey i hope he makes a ton of money off it i really do ... Just by my definition i have in MY head i consider it ethically wrong ... IMO hehe
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Well, look at it this way. By the definition you posted, in that information should be free, maiko1 had no further responsibility to the community than to make a post and say "Hey, i found XYZ exploit. Do with it what you will." He did not have to say how that exploit specifically would allow us to gain root access, let alone make a tool that did it for us. All he had to do was publish the information. Then he would have been an "ethical hacker" according to your definition. Now, seeing as how in the post above the one i quoted, you stated you are not an Android developer, even if you had this information available for free, what would you do with it? By your own admittance you wouldnt be able to achieve root with just the information, you still needed a tool to do it for you. Someone has to develop this tool. There are no ethics for "ethical development" and certainly no expectation that it should be free. Developers work for money. Don't confuse hacking with developing. Hacking is finding exploits. Developing tools to take advantage of them is a whole other story.
Also, just to kill the whole "the hack should be free" argument :
As Stallman notes, "free" refers to unrestricted access; it does not refer to price.
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From the article you linked. You have access to the method and tool, he didnt root his own phone and keep it from the rest of us. Doesnt mean you shouldnt pay for it.
I can't speak for those behind the root "hack", but I know I don't work for free.
Your time isn't worthless, so why should mine?
adrynalyne said:
Your time isn't worthless, so why should mine?
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Furthermore, your skills aren't worthless either, so why should they be free?