Rom-on-demand - Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General

Rom-on-demand - Tilt, TyTN II, MDA Vario III General

Honorable Chefs - distinguished consumers.
www.romondemand.com/org has been registered as a strategic decision elaborating the feasibility of providing personalized Rom's to end-consumers.
The idea generated by reading to many times "can you include this' - "can you remove that" etc
So, why not offering personalized - tailor made ROM's ? Customer creates a wish-list on the webpage - available Chef -in his domain of expertise receives the order - constructs - customer downloads - Chef follow-up. Chef gets paid - happy customer with own ROM.
Simply presented, I know, but got to start somewhere no?
Would like to know the opinion of the Chef's on this idea. PM me to elaborate further on together if this is tempting or not.
And whoever thinks that a personalized ROM is crap is free to flame - punch me. I own the idea. Stupid or clever as it is.

good idea but i don't think most of the chefs here cook roms as a profession. Most of them simply do it because its a hobby and invest their time into it. If they wanted money i am sure they wouldn't post their hardwork here for others to steal

nothing wrong with that I guess. Use your skills to pay the bills

I think it's a great idea, however keep the following in mind:
1) How much you charge vs. how much people are willing to pay vs. how many people will actually use this service. Even though alot of people say "can you include this..." doesn't mean they are going to pay for someone else to do it. Alot of people on this forum will tinker themselves rather than pay the $$. Also, make sure you aren't putting too much time into this. If i ask you to build be a rom just like the stock but with App ABC built in.... you might say sure...$30! But if it takes you 3 hours to figure out how to properly integrate it...that is alot of work for $30. Plus if you can't figure it out...you get $0
2) Make sure you don't pirate anyone else's work without first asking. If I ask you for a ROM "just like Dutty's latest but with A, B, and Z" you might want to take Dutty's and update it. You will not get the best reputation here if you take Dutty's hard work and tweak it just a bit and turn it for a profit.
3) Be sure you are prepared for any legal implications. The legality of putting these ROMs up, let alone selling them is a grey area. Make sure you are ready to deal with any possible consequences.
If you got all that covered...go for it!

bengalih said:
I think it's a great idea, however keep the following in mind:
1) How much you charge vs. how much people are willing to pay vs. how many people will actually use this service. Even though alot of people say "can you include this..." doesn't mean they are going to pay for someone else to do it. Alot of people on this forum will tinker themselves rather than pay the $$. Also, make sure you aren't putting too much time into this. If i ask you to build be a rom just like the stock but with App ABC built in.... you might say sure...$30! But if it takes you 3 hours to figure out how to properly integrate it...that is alot of work for $30. Plus if you can't figure it out...you get $0
2) Make sure you don't pirate anyone else's work without first asking. If I ask you for a ROM "just like Dutty's latest but with A, B, and Z" you might want to take Dutty's and update it. You will not get the best reputation here if you take Dutty's hard work and tweak it just a bit and turn it for a profit.
3) Be sure you are prepared for any legal implications. The legality of putting these ROMs up, let alone selling them is a grey area. Make sure you are ready to deal with any possible consequences.
If you got all that covered...go for it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As for a legal stance you'd technically be selling your service rather than the rom itself seeing it is a customization.

CUSTEL said:
As for a legal stance you'd technically be selling your service rather than the rom itself seeing it is a customization.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes but you'd still be breaking HTC/AT&T/MS property rights. Again, it's a grey area...just like all of us here freely distributing them.
I don't think selling them is any worse (since you would be selling the service), but it's stil grey... and anytime money is involved it can be higher profile.

Custel , you made some valid points, though it would not be the intention to steel without authorization already cooked ROM's.
I would either see it as a Chefs-united platform where stock ROM's are used and tweaked - within the legal bounderies.
No, a MS VC would not be added for free and if so, royalties would be paid to MS.
Same counts for applic's such as coreplayer etc.
A matter of how the negotiations will go with those guys.
Purpose is for them to understand that we can integrate officialy their soft at a minimum price avoiding that plenty d-load them somewhere onon-officialy.
I do not see loosers within this set-up (yet)

No misunderstanding !
Benghali wrote : 2) Make sure you don't pirate anyone else's work without first asking. If I ask you for a ROM "just like Dutty's latest but with A, B, and Z" you might want to take Dutty's and update it. You will not get the best reputation here if you take Dutty's hard work and tweak it just a bit and turn it for a profit.
I would not even touch these ROMS and they will even not be on the website.
It would be the Chef's whom are jumping in which start with a Vanilla base and customize the ROM on demand (Customer can provide desired wallpaper - list a wich of soft - tweaks - cabs etc whatever his level of PDA understanding is)
So, no, the ROM's made by the CHEF's would not be simply refurbished.
(as this never ever happens among the chefs neither )

ceevee369 said:
Custel , you made some valid points, though it would not be the intention to steel without authorization already cooked ROM's.
I would either see it as a Chefs-united platform where stock ROM's are used and tweaked - within the legal bounderies.
No, a MS VC would not be added for free and if so, royalties would be paid to MS.
Same counts for applic's such as coreplayer etc.
A matter of how the negotiations will go with those guys.
Purpose is for them to understand that we can integrate officialy their soft at a minimum price avoiding that plenty d-load them somewhere onon-officialy.
I do not see loosers within this set-up (yet)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just pointing out that I made all those original posts, Custel was just quoting me. But, more importantly...you talk about doing thing within "legal boundaries."
There are no legal boundaries for cooking ROMs. It is against all HTC/MS/AT&T licensing agreements to decompile, modify, and redistribute their code (and for profit nonetheless!).
You seem to be approaching this as a legitimate business venture where you will pay royalties to various manufacturers. I don't want to put down your idea, but unless you have some major connections at some very big corporations, this idea would not even be entertained.
Anything you do would pretty much be regulated fully by yourself. MS isn't going to license VC command to you. Other smaller software companies may play along, but to be honest such a licensing structure for an endeavor like this probably is overkill.
You also seem to be thinking of not just making these ROMs yourself, but brokering it out to multiple chefs who will be taking orders. Again, it could work, but is ambitious to lay out a structure like this.
Again, I like your idea...I just don't know how realistic it is based on the amount of transactions you would be performing. And, please remember if you actually achieved such a structure, your site and services would surely be put out there and would draw attention from the major vendors who would probably investigate and send you cease-and-desists. Remember, the whole act of cooking and distibuting copyrighted ROMs is not withing the agreements of the vendors.

bengalih said:
I think it's a great idea, however keep the following in mind:
1) How much you charge vs. how much people are willing to pay vs. how many people will actually use this service. Even though alot of people say "can you include this..." doesn't mean they are going to pay for someone else to do it. Alot of people on this forum will tinker themselves rather than pay the $$. Also, make sure you aren't putting too much time into this. If i ask you to build be a rom just like the stock but with App ABC built in.... you might say sure...$30! But if it takes you 3 hours to figure out how to properly integrate it...that is alot of work for $30. Plus if you can't figure it out...you get $0
2) Make sure you don't pirate anyone else's work without first asking. If I ask you for a ROM "just like Dutty's latest but with A, B, and Z" you might want to take Dutty's and update it. You will not get the best reputation here if you take Dutty's hard work and tweak it just a bit and turn it for a profit.
3) Be sure you are prepared for any legal implications. The legality of putting these ROMs up, let alone selling them is a grey area. Make sure you are ready to deal with any possible consequences.
If you got all that covered...go for it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not too mention that Dutty, & a few other chef's remove all the RGU's. So unless the creator is the one helping you, prepare to spend a lot of time digging out the defunct dsm files from the rom.
I think it's an okay, don't get me wrong, there are a lot of people that are clueless about this stuff & still want things there way, but you hardly own the idea. The idea is what gave birth to this forum, & if you have been here for any length of time you'll see that people here have in some instances paid others to make or customize roms for them in the past.
I also don't think you'll get away with charging much for your "Service", as the hard work, all the coding, was already done by MS & HTC. Thinking that you'd get MS to sanction this is wishful. Remember, MS at one point stopped XDA from distributing their roms, & one of the big reasons it turns it's head today is because of all of the free bug fixes & beta testing they get out of this community. If your just selling roms, ahem...services, then you'll likely not be any source of needed data for them & there will be no reason to let you keep going at it.
Customizing already customized roms gets even grayer, because now you have artwork & custom icons that were created by members specifically for certain chefs, i.e. Collinssc frequently does custom art for Dutty's roms.
Again, there is a lot of stuff to work thru here, & several are pretty serious, such as licensing that already prohibits distribution, not to mention all of the required technical support & while you can use all the disclaimers in the world, that won't stop someone from sueing you when their device bricks. Take a look at all of the cooked rom threads, some have thousands upon thousands of little bug complaints, that adds up to a lot of hours when you have made a lot of individual changes to a rom & it's not always the chef that comes up with the solution for the bugs. I personally never used a Dutty rom because I couldn't use MediaNet & BBC at the same time, but I wanted to, so I disected several ROM's & found the issue & the fix. Same with certain roms & TCPMP. Multiply these issues by the number of each user personal taste in apps &, well you see my point.
I'm a red blooded capitalist thru & thru, so I say go for it, but there'll be no easy money made here. It'll take a lot of time to get any coordinated effort involving so many variables off & running. Good luck.

It's a shame this idea has been shot down already because I wanted to know how much it was going to cost. Hell, I have three other friends that would be interested in buying a ROM. Sometimes, people would rather hire someone with experience.

bennyj71 said:
It's a shame this idea has been shot down already because I wanted to know how much it was going to cost. Hell, I have three other friends that would be interested in buying a ROM. Sometimes, people would rather hire someone with experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the idea still lives but needs further investigation and I want to know the Chef's view on this first.
Will come back with more news.
i already found Taiwanese web builder understanding the complexity but thinks it is more than feasible to build a platform fitting the needs.

Related

To All You Guys Nagging Us To Provide Links For Wm6 Rom

I have noticed that many people ask us (that allready got the ROM) to provide download-links, and even mail it to you.
You have to understand that we cannot provide all new readers with that same info over and over.
If you read the two posts:
WM6 rom for wizard: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=289799
and
about the crossbow wwe leak: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=290277
you can easily figure out yourself how to get hold of it!
It's in your own best interest.
Even people here are helpful, all the post like "wm6 for me too plzzzzz mail it to [email protected]in" is quite irritating.
So "noobs" - please read those above posts carefully, and you wil figure out how to download it yourself!
Best regards
HansMarius

this is probably the best thread ever made

I guarantee you someone will come in here and ask for a link to it...
This is part of a big problem with mobile phone message boards I've seen across all makes and models.
Newbies come in asking hundreds of the same exacty question over and over and over again all because they're too lazy to figure it out for themselves like we all had to before them.
</rant>
I don't mind helping people out, but when it's something simple, easy, or has been discussed to extreme length here, it is extremely frustrating.

message to members and senior members:
guys be careful who you give the crossbow link to. remember that noobs rarely read threads and take the time to know what you have to do before flashing a rom. so to avoid the hundreds of threads about noobs bricking their phone lets just use our discretion on giving out those links.

I propose the opposite, give links willy nilly, let them brick, and then let them learn at cost.
Anyone who posts info about flashing Crossbow, please always pre-pend with a disclaimer to the effect that it will cause sterility and permanent flaccidity.
None of these roms are retail AFAIK. Side-effects will occur.
V

I to gave willing away links over PM a couple a days ago, but now i'm getting pretty frustrated because it takes up to much of my time tom answer.
This post was never intended as a "****ing noobs" post, but they (yes YOU) must understand that this takes up to much of our time, and we must use our precious time to set up our phones properly after we flashed the WM6 ROM;-)

Wow!
It took me a whopping 2 minutes to find the rom... Not that I actually downloaded it or anything...
But let's say that I did download the thing... And it were to happen to install just fine on my 8125... I think that I too, would rather spend time installing things like a camera proggie, and the odds and ends that a plain vanilla rom such as this probably doesn't contain... than to waste precious time responding to the non-existent requests for it's location...
I'd even bet that M$ might even put a "windows update" button in there somewhere just to tease us... Probably just tattles on ya tho... Anyone that HAS been brave enough to click on the "update" button capture what is going out? where the request goes? what the request contains? (I'll bet it just comes back with "no updates available" tho...)
Sure, it's easy to say "let the n00bs brick their phone"... Can't we all just get along? Don't be haters... Yeah, right... What the hell do I know... I'm just a n00b myself, but at least I'm a n00b that knows how to read, and tries to spend time actually reading the forums before making an @$$ out of myself...
Just my .02
PT

I Agree with vijay555 to give them the links BUT AT THEIR OWN RISK
Let them make a SmartBrick

i know it's kinda cool to have the latest and greatest, but what's the point if you are to make your super expensive machine into a mega-expensive paper-weight... doesn't really make any sense though...

Rumor has it that Microsoft secretly *WANTS* these ROMS to be leaked and tested by the phone geeks.
They allow Vista to be officially tested but it would be too difficult to go through any program like that - especially given the nature of how the OS is loaded.
Who better to test them, discover patches and fixes, and give pros and cons then the phone nerds. It also drums up interest for those who don't flash ROMS all the time. Do you realize how many major phone websites are already publishing Crossbow articles based on the leaked ROMS? You think Microsoft dislikes the publicity?
Apple went ape-**** because someone was using the pictures they provide on their website for free. Why do you think there has been ZERO comments from Microsoft when an OS is leaked 6 months early?
By the way, when you provide a link for a lossless photo of the icons on the homescreen of a yet to be released phone, people are going to download it:
http://images.apple.com/movies/us/pr/photos/iphone/iphone_home.tif.zip
I was able to turn that picture into all the icons needed in under 5 minutes. Thank God I hate Apple so much I'd never use them!
-Mc

Please send all WM6 rom requests to [email protected]! lol

McHale:
Why do you think there has been ZERO comments from Microsoft when an OS is leaked 6 months early?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That comment isn't correct. Microsoft has contacted this board and asked for the roms to be removed. Very politely I might add. I have every respect for them for that.
Regarding the rumour that Microsoft wants their roms to be leaked, well rumour has it that Kate Moss wants me to eat sushi off her naked body. As much as I would like to believe it to be true, it's unlikely and probably a self-serving reflection of my own inner desires. She probably wouldn't want me slobbering over her after enjoying Adonis, Pete Doherty, and likewise, I doubt Microsoft is short of beta testers when they have their entire body of employees to test for them.
We're just freeloaders... but resourceful and dedicated
V

vijay555 said:
That comment isn't correct. Microsoft has contacted this board and asked for the roms to be removed. Very politely I might add. I have every respect for them for that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's very cool. I got the rumor information from a couple Microsoft Reps who were at my company when we were discussing corporate licensing and the future of OS's (including mobile). Sales guys...
Regarding the rumour that Microsoft wants their roms to be leaked, well rumour has it that Kate Moss wants me to eat sushi off her naked body. As much as I would like to believe it to be true, it's unlikely and probably a self-serving reflection of my own inner desires. She probably wouldn't want me slobbering over her after enjoying Adonis, Pete Doherty, and likewise, I doubt Microsoft is short of beta testers when they have their entire body of employees to test for them.
We're just freeloaders... but resourceful and dedicated
V
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you know, I heard that second rumor as well but I could have sworn it was me and not you and it wasn't Sushi... it was sausage pizza.
Man that would burn...
-Mc

that's very cool. I got the rumor information from a couple Microsoft Reps who were at my company when we were discussing corporate licensing and the future of OS's (including mobile). Sales guys...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man if we'd known that, we could have "facilitated" a leak quite some time back! A lot of people have been sitting on the roms for a while AFAIK.
sausage pizza
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Chipolata or Cumberland?!
V

I will say it again though. I think Microsoft has been very cool about us playing with the WM6 ROM and not getting Apple-sue happy. They've also been cool about us cooking custom ROMS with bits and pieces from all of them.
With as often as many of us upgrade Windows Mobile devices, this only encourages most of us to buy the next device that has it pre-installed. It won't keep many of us from upgrading because we have the new OS.
If it would make MS happy, I'm sure most of us would be happy to take part in a Beta program and report our findings as well as fixes (though they are all here on XDA if they take the time to read).
And as I stated days ago, let's not do anything that jeopardizes this fine forum or any of us on here. If MS says stop, we should take it someplace else.
-Mc

I entirely agree with you.
I was doing some work with some obscure Microsoft APIs yesterday, and as much as people love to shoot them down and whatever, we reap the rewards of the incredible amount of work that goes into supporting functions that we may never even get to use!
I specifically chose to use the phone I do because I can rip it apart software/ROM wise.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=287178#post1082343
Keep up the good work, one and all. Hack away!
V

True that
I don't do much posting but I have to agree with you guys. M$ can put the hurt on the board/forum really fast. Why not have a semi-approving Uncle and not create another "Napster" situation. M$ wants all the info they can get without the attitudes. Agree ????

An Open Letter to Microsoft - Let us develop WM6 please

Dear Microsoft,
I am writing this letter to ask permission for Xda-developers.com and it's users to officially use, develop, and share the new Wizard WM6 roms on this site. I know that you are currently not allowing us to do so. I believe it is in your best interest to let us. Here is why:
1) User Testing - allowing us to develop and share the WM6 rom for the wizard will open your product to a huge amount of testing. On this site, we don't just use our phones, we push them hard. We love to see the most we can get out of them. We get bored with what we have, so we load a new rom and see what it can do. 3 days later we load another. You will not find a better place on the Internet to test your roms.
Also, it will allow us to test compatibility with new and existing software. This site is already reference material for most software developers and even HTC. In our never-ending search for information about these devices we find things such as tricks to make them better, security holes, and all sorts of information that 3rd party companies can use.
All of this work is done by volunteers who, although they may gripe from time to time, feel a sense of satisfaction for doing this work. You can't buy their level of loyalty.
2) Goodwill - Allowing us to use, develop and share the WM6 rom will create a massive amount of goodwill on this site for your company. Since you are the biggest player in the game, you are currently subject to TONS of criticism everywhere you turn. People usually see you as this huge faceless corporation that wants to control people and take their money. I read the blogs of Microsoft employees and know this is really not the case. Allowing us to work on this rom openly will create goodwill that no ad campaign can buy.
3) Money - The bottom line is that you will save money. Money that might be spent on research will be saved by free research on this site. Money spent on ads to generate goodwill will be saved by the goodwill generated on this site.
I appreciate your consideration of this matter. Please let us know of your decision.
Sincerely,
texasaggie1

cool letter.. cant wait to see wat kind of responce you get.

Diddo.......Let's see if the big boss will let us play.

Great Letter Aggie. I would think the MS resposne would be pretty good about this. MS has been pretty good with other technologies lately in opening it up and taking feedbacks from users.
One thing is for sure. THERE IS NO OTHER PLACE BETTER THAN HERE TO TEST/TWEAK/BETTER WINDOWS MOBILE.
We do have a vast number of volunteers here that do a helluva job in making these roms faster and better.

What makes you think they aren't doing this already?
Where do you think this 'leaked' version originated from, anyway? And why is it literally painless to install?
MS has employees who actively troll this group (among others) to get feedback..good and bad...for their "pre-release" warez. They just lurk in the shadows (rightfully so, speaking up would make them the whipping boys of the forum...)
Since the hardware mfr and/or the service provider of the device is the one who decides whether or not to 'upgrade' your device with the latest and greatest OS (based heavily on whether or not they want to support multiple s/w versions) MS can't make any money off simply selling their product to the end user. Unlike the PC model of selling you a retail boxed version of a new operating system for your PC.
No money to be made = no money to be lost. Think about it.
All that being said, the most important thing to remember is that they will ACTIVELY shut down any site hosting their software without their permission. If they fail to enforce their copyrights by legal means, it further weakens any argument in future lawsuits regarding others who pirate their software. They will also quickly piss off the likes of t-mobile, cingular, and other service providers if they provide the end-user a means of bypassing their process of certifying the stability of their phones.
They will continue to operate in this way for a long time. They get free beta testing from 'hardcore users' while looking the other way. It's genius if you ask me!

!! Sweet !!
I would be very suprised if they gave this consideration, they will wait for the 'next gen' devices up to come to release it on in my opinion.
Besides we must face it, most people that are using these phones these days do not flash their device, nonetheless, know what it is.
We are the few flashing samurai that cannot live with a stock rom, and want to "juice" our hardware to get our money's worth. \m/
I will say If you live in the US now you will see that parents are buying their teenage kiddies smartphones/ppcs now for a couple reasons. 1) To ward off an appl music/video product, and of course. 2) To be able to reach them anywhere with the phone service.
It would have been funny to say that most people on this site are using/have used the wm6 leak already, so we might as well work together for free, for a learning purpose.
They need more of this for WM device settings...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2362050448778905490&q=steve+ballmer+remix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5oGaZIKYvo

rizzo said:
What makes you think they aren't doing this already?
Where do you think this 'leaked' version originated from, anyway? And why is it literally painless to install?
MS has employees who actively troll this group (among others) to get feedback..good and bad...for their "pre-release" warez. They just lurk in the shadows (rightfully so, speaking up would make them the whipping boys of the forum...)
Since the hardware mfr and/or the service provider of the device is the one who decides whether or not to 'upgrade' your device with the latest and greatest OS (based heavily on whether or not they want to support multiple s/w versions) MS can't make any money off simply selling their product to the end user. Unlike the PC model of selling you a retail boxed version of a new operating system for your PC.
No money to be made = no money to be lost. Think about it.
All that being said, the most important thing to remember is that they will ACTIVELY shut down any site hosting their software without their permission. If they fail to enforce their copyrights by legal means, it further weakens any argument in future lawsuits regarding others who pirate their software. They will also quickly piss off the likes of t-mobile, cingular, and other service providers if they provide the end-user a means of bypassing their process of certifying the stability of their phones.
They will continue to operate in this way for a long time. They get free beta testing from 'hardcore users' while looking the other way. It's genius if you ask me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, you might be right. But, aren't they allowing WM6 on the Universal? That may change the equation.

My gut feeling is that one or more of the ROM cookers in here works for M$. You don't know some of the things they do without having a lot more background knowledge than the average joe. There's nothing wrong with that, of course...that means better products for you and me.

I support Texasaggie1
Hi, i would like to support the request. It makes damn sense, I am an old-time Linux user and i think that Microsoft would show great marketing sense in allowing us to test it. I will not argue about the advantages and benefits,
and one simple question: Who would be negatively affected by it? HTC? Microsoft? other users? Network providers?

pzucchel said:
Hi, i would like to support the request. It makes damn sense, I am an old-time Linux user and i think that Microsoft would show great marketing sense in allowing us to test it. I will not argue about the advantages and benefits,
and one simple question: Who would be negatively affected by it? HTC? Microsoft? other users? Network providers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Thought is NO-ONE. As all we do is RUN these ROMS and Tweak them to perform in the best way that they can. All that everyone does here is readily available and can/could/HAS been adopted by Developers, Networks & Manufacturers alike.

jwzg said:
My gut feeling is that one or more of the ROM cookers in here works for M$. You don't know some of the things they do without having a lot more background knowledge than the average joe. There's nothing wrong with that, of course...that means better products for you and me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt any of the 'cookers' work for Microsoft. Although difficult, it's fairly common to reverse-engineer someone elses code and mold it into something that you want. Once you get the hang of how things work and make the script kiddie tools to do it, it's fairly simple.
One thing that a cooker can't do is write an entire OS then 'leak' it onto the internet and call it WM6, this is done by someone entrusted with copies of it for legitimate purposes. Blame HTC or any of the ODM's if you want, but it my opinion, it would be a waste of your time.
If you want to infect the world, you must spread your disease. MS has come a long way in this regard with the likes of gaining on Palm, RIM, symbian, etc.
Microsoft has always leveraged piracy to work in their favor...those that can't get the disease (or otherwise can't afford it) will have access to it. If you can't make the sale, might as well get them hooked fo' free!

pzucchel said:
and one simple question: Who would be negatively affected by it? HTC? Microsoft? other users? Network providers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but I had to chime in on this one, too. Maybe some people don't see it, but we ARE actively beta testing their software.
If you develop software, and want to have beta testing do any good, there needs to be some kind of order. Visiting forums to find information is chaotic at best. Sifting through page after page of hijacked threads and RTFM type questions isn't going to yield the feedback a company needs to squash the bugs out of code. If enough people complain about a particular 'feature' then it might get the company to try and replicate it in-house, but its very unlikely that you'd ever hear anything back from them.
End-users modifying their devices by flashing it with unreleased firmware it wasn't originally designed for is dangerous, and can cause a ripple effect if it's not managed. As long as the company stands by its "hey, we never said this code was finished - not to mention you're not supposed to have it" stance, it can shield them from almost ALL liability in you bricking your phone. In the mean time, hardcore folks like us will continue shoving the bleeding-edge not-ready-ware into our phones in order to tell the tales of our adventures to all that will listen - and MS will continue "leaking" their warez into the wild.
The minute Microsoft starts bending these rules for folks like us, then they are going to have to answer to THEIR customers (HTC, network providers, etc) when the nOObs start flooding their call centers for warranty-return requests.

texasaggie1 said:
Dear Microsoft,
I am writing this letter to ask permission for Xda-developers.com and it's users to officially use, develop, and share the new Wizard WM6 roms on this site. I know that you are currently not allowing us to do so. I believe it is in your best interest to let us. Here is why:
1) User Testing - allowing us to develop and share the WM6 rom for the wizard will open your product to a huge amount of testing. On this site, we don't just use our phones, we push them hard. We love to see the most we can get out of them. We get bored with what we have, so we load a new rom and see what it can do. 3 days later we load another. You will not find a better place on the Internet to test your roms.
Also, it will allow us to test compatibility with new and existing software. This site is already reference material for most software developers and even HTC. In our never-ending search for information about these devices we find things such as tricks to make them better, security holes, and all sorts of information that 3rd party companies can use.
All of this work is done by volunteers who, although they may gripe from time to time, feel a sense of satisfaction for doing this work. You can't buy their level of loyalty.
2) Goodwill - Allowing us to use, develop and share the WM6 rom will create a massive amount of goodwill on this site for your company. Since you are the biggest player in the game, you are currently subject to TONS of criticism everywhere you turn. People usually see you as this huge faceless corporation that wants to control people and take their money. I read the blogs of Microsoft employees and know this is really not the case. Allowing us to work on this rom openly will create goodwill that no ad campaign can buy.
3) Money - The bottom line is that you will save money. Money that might be spent on research will be saved by free research on this site. Money spent on ads to generate goodwill will be saved by the goodwill generated on this site.
I appreciate your consideration of this matter. Please let us know of your decision.
Sincerely,
texasaggie1
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Totally agreed texasaggie1 said but dont forget in all devices rom ,MS just part of 70% of rom others 30% belong to HTC,T-mobile...etc, the reason we need to cook rom in here not really problem belong to MS that belong to HTC,
MS understand HTC was first OEM used Mobile window,but MS can understand why we need to cook rom in here ? do you hear anyone cook Window XP ? MS must understand device rom is different with Window XP,MS just proved PB and AKU ,device also need driver and some of OEM program otherwide device(phone) will not working,you can see in rom kithen had OS/LOC/OEM , SO belong to MS,LOC/OEM belong to HTC,T-Mobile..etc. this is different with window XP,if today all rom made by MS than no one can said anything,but not in this case ,we in here not only help MS also help HTC,T-Mobile...etc. too, they got how many free employees to worked with them,now Apple will come out IPhone ,I dont think MS want to lose market to them,we in here 100% support to MS , I dont understand what piont they refuse us ?

BA_Flash_GOD said:
I would be very suprised if they gave this consideration, they will wait for the 'next gen' devices up to come to release it on in my opinion.
Besides we must face it, most people that are using these phones these days do not flash their device, nonetheless, know what it is.
We are the few flashing samurai that cannot live with a stock rom, and want to "juice" our hardware to get our money's worth. \m/
I will say If you live in the US now you will see that parents are buying their teenage kiddies smartphones/ppcs now for a couple reasons. 1) To ward off an appl music/video product, and of course. 2) To be able to reach them anywhere with the phone service.
It would have been funny to say that most people on this site are using/have used the wm6 leak already, so we might as well work together for free, for a learning purpose.
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I agree. Good reply.
I know all of this is a long shot. But it's been bugging me lately. I had to post this letter.

Flashing/Testing New OS = Good Experience
I think M$ should show more of the average users that yes, you can upgrade/downgrade your current rom very easily. This would let all users have the option to use any individual one to meet their needs. I'm guessing another big issue would be CID locking though, wouldn't that be another breech of contract for M$ to the original phone service providers? What you guys think

BA_Flash_GOD said:
I think M$ should show more of the average users that yes, you can upgrade/downgrade your current rom very easily. This would let all users have the option to use any individual one to meet their needs. I'm guessing another big issue would be CID locking though, wouldn't that be another breech of contract for M$ to the original phone service providers? What you guys think
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I am sorry, please don't take this the wrong way. But this is one of the silliest ideas I have seen in a long time. Think for a moment about the support headaches from even 20% of their users playing with ROMS versus the 2-3% that do it now. And you think some of the NOOBS on here get annoying forget about regular users!!!
I think things are about perfect the way they are. A little "unofficial" help lets us hardcore users reap the benefits of upgrading with out the hassles. Trust me if ROM upgrades became more official they would kill groups like this. They would charge for the upgrades and they would want to control them like they do desktop OS upgrades. I say no thanks to that. It's like the early days of Napster, or more recently You Tube taking down tons of videos, those things were much better before they became mainstream and then they had to change.
I will say this. MS should figure out how to make the CID & SIM Lock a separate part of the rom like the radio and bootloader, make it totally separate from the Rom & Extended Rom itself. That would allow tweakers to change roms with out worrying about Locks and would make the phone companies happy too. And I am sure users that need unlocking would figure that out too

BA_Flash_GOD said:
I think M$ should show more of the average users that yes, you can upgrade/downgrade your current rom very easily. This would let all users have the option to use any individual one to meet their needs. I'm guessing another big issue would be CID locking though, wouldn't that be another breech of contract for M$ to the original phone service providers? What you guys think
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anyone who wants to can use google. I seriously do not think that its neccesary to let the world know. they could know... if they wanted to. Bad idea imho.

rizzo said:
Sorry, but I had to chime in on this one, too. Maybe some people don't see it, but we ARE actively beta testing their software.
If you develop software, and want to have beta testing do any good, there needs to be some kind of order. Visiting forums to find information is chaotic at best. Sifting through page after page of hijacked threads and RTFM type questions isn't going to yield the feedback a company needs to squash the bugs out of code. If enough people complain about a particular 'feature' then it might get the company to try and replicate it in-house, but its very unlikely that you'd ever hear anything back from them.
End-users modifying their devices by flashing it with unreleased firmware it wasn't originally designed for is dangerous, and can cause a ripple effect if it's not managed. As long as the company stands by its "hey, we never said this code was finished - not to mention you're not supposed to have it" stance, it can shield them from almost ALL liability in you bricking your phone. In the mean time, hardcore folks like us will continue shoving the bleeding-edge not-ready-ware into our phones in order to tell the tales of our adventures to all that will listen - and MS will continue "leaking" their warez into the wild.
The minute Microsoft starts bending these rules for folks like us, then they are going to have to answer to THEIR customers (HTC, network providers, etc) when the nOObs start flooding their call centers for warranty-return requests.
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I'm sorry but I have to side with rizzo on this one. They will never officially come out and allow this because they can't. You are asking them to agree to a. Code leaking, b. Code theft, c. Software Piracy in a sense (since you have to not acquired a legal copy and have not paid licenses for it), d. Copyright infringement. What company in their right mind say yes to this and open up the flood gates? And like rizzo said allow them to be liable for consumer or partner lawsuits as well?
As much as I agree with the original heartfelt post, we say what we say for argument's sake. They have already responded numerous times by allowing this and turning a blind eye. Every now and then they complain, either because we did step on some toes or because they officially have to say this is not allowed. If they really tried, they could cause some serious legal trouble. They choose not to, for a all the reasons mentioned in the original post.
So don't ask the impossible. Don't expect windows to become an open source application or windows mobile to release official betas to the public (not for sometime anyway). Pigs just don't fly sorry.

I have to agree with Rizzo. Besides, Microsoft won't spend resources on releasing ROMs for old devices, giving them for free to users and then having no way to recover some of the investment, because the Wizard is being phased out. It doesn't make sense.
However Microsoft can open a program for betatesting their ROMs, that is completely possible. A program that involves registering every user that gets the ROM, once we agree not to ask for support and all the legal stuff. And provide the means to keep track of bug reporst, etc. But still if you want to beta test something, you want to do it on the device where it's intended to be used the final release, and I don't think our Wizards are going to get an official WM 6 upgrade.

It's a long shot
igalan said:
I have to agree with Rizzo. Besides, Microsoft won't spend resources on releasing ROMs for old devices, giving them for free to users and then having no way to recover some of the investment, because the Wizard is being phased out. It doesn't make sense.
However Microsoft can open a program for betatesting their ROMs, that is completely possible. A program that involves registering every user that gets the ROM, once we agree not to ask for support and all the legal stuff. And provide the means to keep track of bug reporst, etc. But still if you want to beta test something, you want to do it on the device where it's intended to be used the final release, and I don't think our Wizards are going to get an official WM 6 upgrade.
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It's a long shot, but they do allow WM6 in the Universal thread. Maybe they will for us. Maybe we try again to post WM6 roms in a few weeks and see what happens??

WMWiFiRouter Questions

I just installed WMWiFiRouter (http://www.wmwifirouter.com/) trail version and liked pretty much. Would like to buy a license if someone can clarify my questions:
1- Is WMWiFiRouter Legal according to the service providers? I'm with ATT
2- Is anyone who is already using could share their reviews
3- Will ATT objects for WMWiFiRouter usage? Obviously I will be using for web browsing and not for downloads.
Thanks Folks !!

1. Wifi router would be a violation of ATT tos
2. I use wifi router daily. I havent tried the newest release but i did try v1.10 and reverted back to an older version. Sure there are new options and tools in the new versions but its slow and buggy (may take 2 or 3 atempts for connection, connection drops, takes longer to connect). I would suggest that you try version 0.91 (which is a free version). It lacks the extra options like connection security and naming your connection, but you can go to the connection itself after it has been created and name it and encode it there. version 0.91 is fast, almost never drops out, and connect right away.....oh, and again i believe its free.
3. Dont tell um : )
(just make sure to stay within their data cap.

Thanks YL Groper.
I have unlimited data plan so I wont be exceeding the data limit. Where can I get the 0.91 version? Can you share please..

YL Groper said:
1. Wifi router would be a violation of ATT tos
d
I would suggest that you try version 0.91 (which is a free version). It lacks the extra options like connection security and naming your connection, but you can go to the connection itself after it has been created and name it and encode it there. version 0.91 is fast, almost never drops out, and connect right away.....oh, and again i believe its free.
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WMWifiRouter is not free and if you are using a beta before Chainfire, its author and a hero to the xda community, went commercial either because that was the version availabl!e when you first got it and stuck with it or you pirate it, you are doing so against the wishes of the author. Maybe not the law, but the author.
So either pay up, beg for his permission on irc, live without it or live in sin.
That aside, when Time Warner cut me off I spent three weeks bootlegging ... copies of Debian Linux like it was my job and AT&T didn't break my balls about the many gigs of bandwidth -- perhaps because they'd make more money by my having to buy another $45 battery shortly after.

Got this version
i've got this version, its work fine for me on my raphael. dk wich version it is.
Mod EDIT: Perma ban for that, DO NOT POST WAREZ.

mahocan said:
i've got this version, its work fine for me on my raphael. dk wich version it is.
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That looks like the 21 day [edit: cracked] demo of 1.25 (current). However, even posting the demo violates Chainfire's website's EULA which includes "You may not sell, assign, license, disclose, or otherwise transfer or make available the Software or any copies of the Software in any form to any third parties, without the written permission of Morose Media."
Sorry to be anal but for those of you who also wish to be anal or courteous, to download the trial you should go here and check off that you accept the EULA and get the cab.
If you want more information about WMWifiRouter, check out Chainfire's thread. Note that he doesn't post the cab, just the link, possibly I'd bet to keep track of how many people are downloading it and from where for marketing purposes. That's what I'd do and that may be what Chainfire is contractually obligated to do his best to make sure it happens that way. When your product, even its demo, is running in the wild, that's valuable information you're not getting that you could use to leverage yourself a better offer.
And please people, nobody post the betas in this thread, another or anywhere on the Internet. Just give out the download link, http://global.wmwifirouter.com/trial/.
Doug

Personally I think its BS that he released free versions (.91) and now tells people they can't download or use them. What a greedy SOB. We all make, build, and use software that is freeware for the reason that we share it. If you want to sell your version, go for it. But don't get a god complex and demand everyone stop using everything you've created until they pay you. Especially if you released it as freeware.

ThyAbode said:
Thanks YL Groper.
I have unlimited data plan so I wont be exceeding the data limit. Where can I get the 0.91 version? Can you share please..
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ATT has a 5GB cap on their unlimited data plans. So yeah, you have to worry about that. Just be on a heads up. A friend of mine just got hit for it, ended up with a $3,000 bill.

You got to be F'ing kidding me.
Chainfire, like many others here, started developing a program that turned out to be brilliant and invaluably useful to so many people. So he gave it out for free both to hook everybody up with something fantastic /and/ to get feedback from people on how to make it better.
But a program that turns your cell phone into, essentially, a Linksys router plugged into a cable modem is extraordinarily complex. He didn't invent the paperclip, patent it, kick back and let the royalties come in, he made something that required and still requires thousands of hours of development, something for which there is a huge market not just for our phones but Nokias and Blackberries.
So it hits the streets here first, people love it, they want more, they want more features, they want encryption, they want different ports, they want more thousands of hours out of him; suddenly it turns into a full time operation for Chainfire. Full time from the beginning as a hobby and now as a possible small career.
And then he apparently gets an offer from some kind of technologically-related venture capital outfit basically offering him a job under, of course, a lot of conditions. They market the program as aggressively as they can, sell it and give him a small cut. He takes the deal. The man did not have an infinite source of income before this (nor does he now) and this is a very rare, the only one of which I am aware, that something born on XDA is so good that it gets commercial attention.
We should all be proud of him and WMWifiRouter stands as an example of what you might be able to accomplish here if you work hard enough.
And you're going to break balls and call it bull**** that in order to use what he started for more than a trial period to figure out that it's worth far more you have to pay $30 just because it started in betas without EULAs? What kind of asshole are you?
Isriam said:
Personally I think its BS that he released free versions (.91) and now tells people they can't download or use them. What a greedy SOB. We all make, build, and use software that is freeware for the reason that we share it. If you want to sell your version, go for it. But don't get a god complex and demand everyone stop using everything you've created until they pay you. Especially if you released it as freeware.
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All arguing asside I really ike WMWiFiRouter
Kewlj1313

Isriam said:
Personally I think its BS that he released free versions (.91) and now tells people they can't download or use them. What a greedy SOB. We all make, build, and use software that is freeware for the reason that we share it. If you want to sell your version, go for it. But don't get a god complex and demand everyone stop using everything you've created until they pay you. Especially if you released it as freeware.
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As much as I would like to agree with you, I can't. Many successful companies have done the same. Hell, Microsoft is doing that right now. Anyone can go download Windows 7 and get a key. Then suddenly, everyone's Windows 7 installs will be telling the users they need to buy a key! Sounds familiar, except Chainfire is just asking people to buy a license for the upgraded program. He wants a return on his investment.
He's done so much for this community, you can't cast him out and piss on his name. He's putting actual time and money into his new project and improving it. Unless he tries forcing the people using the free version into upgrading, I really don't see a problem with it.

My my, what a heated discussion!
First, to answer the original poster's questions:
1 & 3:
It is the same for all providers: you need a data plan that allows tethering. If you don't, you would be violating their terms of service. Which in turn means they could charge you extra or just terminate your phone service. If you use WMWifiRouter regularly you should by all means get a data plan that allows tethering, just to be sure. (you wont get thrown in jail, though )
2:
I obviously cannot answer that
---
As to some of the 'points' made here by others. You guys are clueless. I wrote a long response to explain exactly what/how, but you know what, even if I posted that, you still wouldn't understand (or try to). So I'm just going to keep it short instead.
No, you are not allowed to distribute any version of WMWifiRouter. That you didn't have to pay for the old versions is completely irrelevant to that. You were never allowed to distribute them, and with good reason. Never have I said people who were using 0.91 or older had to upgrade, or that they had to stop using it - so stop pretending I did. And if you know this and still continue to do that, it's nothing but disrespectful to the people who make the stuff you use.
You have no idea how much time goes into the development, testing and support of something like this (I spend > 60 hours a week on it and still release a lot of other things here on XDA, and I'm not the only person working on it). It was just not possible to go on with developing it without charging for it - and the current WMWifiRouter is much better because of it. Not to mention the legal stuff that went on around the time of 0.91 that cost me a bunch of money out of my own pocket - and as people hardly ever donate ....
It is not and has never been a matter of greed, it's always been a matter of finding a way to get it done. If you're big enough to complain about it, you should be big enough to simply refrain from using it altogether... Just because you are a freeloader doesn't mean I'm the bad guy here.
And btw, if you've never tried version 1.20 or up, you never really tried WMWifiRouter ...

Chainfire said:
My my, what a heated discussion!
First, to answer the original poster's questions:
1 & 3:
It is the same for all providers: you need a data plan that allows tethering. If you don't, you would be violating their terms of service. Which in turn means they could charge you extra or just terminate your phone service. If you use WMWifiRouter regularly you should by all means get a data plan that allows tethering, just to be sure. (you wont get thrown in jail, though )
2:
I obviously cannot answer that
---
As to some of the 'points' made here by others. You guys are clueless. I wrote a long response to explain exactly what/how, but you know what, even if I posted that, you still wouldn't understand (or try to). So I'm just going to keep it short instead.
No, you are not allowed to distribute any version of WMWifiRouter. That you didn't have to pay for the old versions is completely irrelevant to that. You were never allowed to distribute them, and with good reason. Never have I said people who were using 0.91 or older had to upgrade, or that they had to stop using it - so stop pretending I did. And if you know this and still continue to do that, it's nothing but disrespectful to the people who make the stuff you use.
You have no idea how much time goes into the development, testing and support of something like this (I spend > 60 hours a week on it and still release a lot of other things here on XDA, and I'm not the only person working on it). It was just not possible to go on with developing it without charging for it - and the current WMWifiRouter is much better because of it. Not to mention the legal stuff that went on around the time of 0.91 that cost me a bunch of money out of my own pocket - and as people hardly ever donate ....
It is not and has never been a matter of greed, it's always been a matter of finding a way to get it done. If you're big enough to complain about it, you should be big enough to simply refrain from using it altogether... Just because you are a freeloader doesn't mean I'm the bad guy here.
And btw, if you've never tried version 1.20 or up, you never really tried WMWifiRouter ...
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Very well said.......
The sole of a shoe is always being worn, some wear there's more than others. But, if it was your sole being worn by someone else. What would you do for protection of your feet?
LMAO, some people are ridiculous. Keep doing what you do Chainfire the mobility world is better for it.
Rob

I never once said you couldn't sell your software, upgrade your software, or spend time adding features. I said you were greedy for demanding all previous freeware versions removed from all sites and calling anyone who uses a freeware version a thief. 0.91 was released as freeware and as such you should have no problem with anyone sharing it or using it. You're making it sound like using 0.91 is against the law and anyone doing so must pay to use 1.25.
For the record I invest thousands of hours in coding and software as well and make plenty of money doing so. I just believe that when you release shareware or freeware, that you should understand one day you may wish to market your software and older, less featured software may still be available because YOU decided to release it early.
This is a classic case of greed. If someone wants a full featured fully working platform, make them pay for it. But if they decide they can live with your freeware, first trial public versions, then why be an ass about it? And yes, I've read about you going around demanding sites remove your previous versions, and making mods lock topics or remove links to your previous versions.

Don't you read? You were never allowed to distribute it. It said so both in the thread and the download page on the site, when the old downloads were available. Makes your complete response completely irrelevant. And again, using 0.91 is not against the law, spreading it is. Just because you didn't have to pay for it, doesn't mean you can do everything you want with it. If I had charged $0.01 for it from the start, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
As for why I'm being an 'ass' about it, is because people don't want to play by the rules I set for the software I made. That doesn't make me an ass, that makes them an ass. Perhaps if the people who know what/where/how with the old versions just kept using them silently, and stopped trying to post it everywhere all over again and get 'noobs' to use it, often on devices that aren't compatible and when they screw up turn to me for support and to fix things, perhaps then I wouldn't need to make a fuss about it, because it doesn't cost me to have them around?
Anyways, I'm done discussing this. Believe what you will, the world is full with people like you why cry when other people stop giving things away. That's greed on your part.

ThyAbode said:
I just installed WMWiFiRouter (http://www.wmwifirouter.com/) trail version and liked pretty much. Would like to buy a license if someone can clarify my questions:
1- Is WMWiFiRouter Legal according to the service providers? I'm with ATT
2- Is anyone who is already using could share their reviews
3- Will ATT objects for WMWiFiRouter usage? Obviously I will be using for web browsing and not for downloads.
Thanks Folks !!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am a regular user of WMWifiROuter for more than half a year now. I ofcourse purchased the software after it stopped being free. I am not going to get into the debate about the selling of the software and will limit my comments to my technical knowledge of the product.
Well, its a lifesaver for me and the two other co-workers of mine who all use my HSDPA connection to surf.
Now, that said, it is unfortunately not a 100% stable piece of software. The version that I use is 1.11, which is the last version before the total re-write. The current version (1.25) is bloated in comparison and even less stable than the "classic" versions.
So, with 1.11 I can keep a connection going for half an hour or so, then all sessions get cut, and the connection goes down. Keep hitting reload in Firefox and eventually the pages will load again, or maybe not, then the best thing to do is to stop WMWifiRouter and start it again. This is ofcourse not very cool for SSH session and other interactive tasks. For the web in general its a tolerable hassle.
Compare this to plain old Internet Sharing via the native WM 6.1 tool (via USB), which is rather stable and just runs fine more or less.
So, yes, I use the software every day, and without it I'd really be in a bind, but its fair to say its not a finished solution and unfortunately the re-write didn't help any. This is important to keep in mind if you need to do interactive work on-line.
Here's hoping they get it to run better on the Raphael. [Interestingly, on my Kaiser it ran much much more stable, but back then it was all the 1.X versions, so I can't comment how 1.2X works with a Kaiser. But who cares? On the Kaiser it works great. On the Raph, it is as I have said.]
-Z

Isriam said:
.....making mods lock topics or remove links to your previous versions.
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I STRONGLY suggest you take this next sentence under advisement:
Moderators on this forum are not MADE to do anything, threads and links are removed/locked for the good of the forum, end of story. If you believe us moderators are in someway controlled by burocracy feel free to contact the admin and air your views.
AND a word of caution to anyone else deciding to post WAREZ, we made an example in this thread already, ANYONE found posting WAREZ will be banned from the forum for a considerable term.

Isriam said:
I never once said you couldn't sell your software, upgrade your software, or spend time adding features. I said you were greedy for demanding all previous freeware versions removed from all sites and calling anyone who uses a freeware version a thief. 0.91 was released as freeware and as such you should have no problem with anyone sharing it or using it. You're making it sound like using 0.91 is against the law and anyone doing so must pay to use 1.25.
For the record I invest thousands of hours in coding and software as well and make plenty of money doing so. I just believe that when you release shareware or freeware, that you should understand one day you may wish to market your software and older, less featured software may still be available because YOU decided to release it early.
This is a classic case of greed. If someone wants a full featured fully working platform, make them pay for it. But if they decide they can live with your freeware, first trial public versions, then why be an ass about it? And yes, I've read about you going around demanding sites remove your previous versions, and making mods lock topics or remove links to your previous versions.
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Click to collapse
I do believe you have not an idea what the hell you are talking about.
You come off as being frustrated that a product took off and in turn was made into a commercial product that you have to NOW pay for. If you code software for a living you would know this FIRST hand.
Capitalism is great my friend.......

robp23 said:
I do believe you have not an idea what the hell you are talking about.
You come off as being frustrated that a product took off and in turn was made into a commercial product that you have to NOW pay for. If you code software for a living you would know this FIRST hand.
Capitalism is great my friend.......
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Yea you're right. I mean, I even have a purchased copy of wmwifirouter 1.25.

Zn0rt said:
I am a regular user of WMWifiROuter for more than half a year now. I ofcourse purchased the software after it stopped being free. I am not going to get into the debate about the selling of the software and will limit my comments to my technical knowledge of the product.
Well, its a lifesaver for me and the two other co-workers of mine who all use my HSDPA connection to surf.
Now, that said, it is unfortunately not a 100% stable piece of software. The version that I use is 1.11, which is the last version before the total re-write. The current version (1.25) is bloated in comparison and even less stable than the "classic" versions.
So, with 1.11 I can keep a connection going for half an hour or so, then all sessions get cut, and the connection goes down. Keep hitting reload in Firefox and eventually the pages will load again, or maybe not, then the best thing to do is to stop WMWifiRouter and start it again. This is ofcourse not very cool for SSH session and other interactive tasks. For the web in general its a tolerable hassle.
Compare this to plain old Internet Sharing via the native WM 6.1 tool (via USB), which is rather stable and just runs fine more or less.
So, yes, I use the software every day, and without it I'd really be in a bind, but its fair to say its not a finished solution and unfortunately the re-write didn't help any. This is important to keep in mind if you need to do interactive work on-line.
Here's hoping they get it to run better on the Raphael. [Interestingly, on my Kaiser it ran much much more stable, but back then it was all the 1.X versions, so I can't comment how 1.2X works with a Kaiser. But who cares? On the Kaiser it works great. On the Raph, it is as I have said.]
-Z
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Thanks Zn0rt. Did you ever monitored your usage of Data Plan? I'm just concerned about ATT knowing about this. Anyways, I will be using only when I need not every time.

Why this GREAT forum just can not help those GREAT freeware makers a better life?

Today, when I went to Sakajati's website to check the release of his new WM6.5 ROM, I was totally depressed and completely lost the mood to flash this brand new ROM, after I read this brief intro:
sakajati
May 4th, 2009 at 5:59 am
Sorry guys for being away, I’ve been under stress due to financial problem. The business is getting worse and worse, I’m afraid I won’t be able to support this website anymore and may also have to sell my device (God I hope this won’t happend). To all hyperdragon users, please consider to support/donate, it may help me so I don’t have to sell this crapy device. Thanks in advance! Enjoy this new rom and let me know for any bugs you found!
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It was exactly the same feeling when yesterday I passed by Mirko Schenk's website and read this:
I aten't ded (12/05/2008, 10:00 PM)
Yeah, I know, I'm a bit slow with updates recently. Somehow, when I wasn't missing free time, all too often I was missing motivation (no, that's not begging for donations) to struggly with the pitfalls of programming after I struggled with them in my job before. And this even though there's currently no girl friend that threadens me when I'd spend more time on my PC than with her. (But admitted, she'd probably wouldn't need to threaden me... )
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Sakajati, a famouse ROM cooker for Kaiser, his Hyperdragon ROM thread in this forum has received 11,178 repplies and 1,574,596 views up to now. Yes, not mistaken, it's more than 1.5 milllion views. Is he brilliant? The numbers speak for themselves.
Mirko Schenk, the name may not much known to public. But if I talk about Mort, every chefs here knows who he is. One of his small programs named 'Mortscript' is now cooked in many of the custom ROMs on this site. Is he brilliant? You can ask every chef here, I guess you'll get the same answer:'Yes, he is VERY brillant.'
These two guys are only examples of many of the brilliant stars here. They all have these two same characters as I know: First, their softwares are all FREE. I.e, they supply free service to pubic without asking any material support from users. Second, I am regret to say, they are all VERY POOR now.
Well, I believe, that the initial puppose of their developing these wares are not for money. I also believe that they would like to continue this cause even if they can not receive one single coin from it, even if they maintain a poor living condition for his own life, they just enjoy it.
On the other hand, have to say this: It is ULTIMATE FORTUNE for a man, that in his life he can find something he likes, he is good at, he did it, and finally he fighted to clime to top of the line. BUT, it is an ULTIMATE UNFORTUNE for him that after he did this, he only found his life is 'worsen and worsen'.
Yes a man's value is not only reallize his own joy, he also has to be responsible for his beloves, his family, his girlfiend, or even his pet. This is the reason they may decide to drop this loved cause and find something else to do. And finally they may be driven out from this society.
Now the question comes: Can we do something to rescue them out of this situation?
Yes, we can donate to their PayPal account.
BUT, to donate to a paypal account is not always convienient for everybody that want to help them.
Actually, there are other much better ways, but the forum rules here does not support it. Like this: Why not allow them to put a simple advertisement on their signature?
Like this one (I found in this thread):
iPhone ... its a maxipad without wings!
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So that viewers can support them by a simple click of their mouse, which will bring a small money for them? Say in Sakajati's case, he has 1.5 million viewers, onlyif 10% of viewers would make a click on the ad, and only if each click can just bring $0.1 for them. That will collect to an amount of $15,000. Which will greatly enhance their life, at lest let them keep the 'crapy device'.
Don't tell me this is impossible for this forum. We have so many super-smart brains here. Actually can set some rules or systems to avoid any 'side effects' of it, like rules on the size, layout, postion, etc of the ad. Who can use it, who can not etc.
Yes, this great forum place should become a worm home for all telents in this line.
MODs: Can you discuss on this issue?

First let me say this is all very sad. Though I never use MortScript, I do sometimes run Sakajati's ROM.
There are unfortunately some issues with what you propose.
While I love XDA-Developers.com (primarily for its people and community), the board owners are not exactly known for 'making things happen'.
Second, clicking ads to "support someone" is a surefire way to get booted from the ad network. This is a definite no in the ad-world and against all regulations. Besides, all this does is move money from businesses who pay for those advertisements to freeware developers, while the users skimp on the cash again, and those who pay for advert gain nothing - you just click to support, not because you are interested in the ad product. So you rise prices for businesses trying to sell something. In turn this will make their products more expensive, you hurt the business and their consumers, and you have gained nothing. Its frowned upon for good reason.
Right now the best and quickest solution is probably still a PayPal rally. Frequent users should simply just donate a few bucks (remember when PayPal'ing, donate at least $2.50 or so or so much will be lost by the money they take, it's hardly worth donating at all). I have been thinking of a solution for this for years, even before I joined the WM community. I may have thought of something but unfortunately right now do not have the time to set up - however it will remain on my to-do list.

Chainfire said:
First let me say this is all very sad. Though I never use MortScript, I do sometimes run Sakajati's ROM.
There are unfortunately some issues with what you propose.
While I love XDA-Developers.com (primarily for its people and community), the board owners are not exactly known for 'making things happen'.
Second, clicking ads to "support someone" is a surefire way to get booted from the ad network. This is a definite no in the ad-world and against all regulations. Besides, all this does is move money from businesses who pay for those advertisements to freeware developers, while the users skimp on the cash again, and those who pay for advert gain nothing - you just click to support, not because you are interested in the ad product. So you rise prices for businesses trying to sell something. In turn this will make their products more expensive, you hurt the business and their consumers, and you have gained nothing. Its frowned upon for good reason.
Right now the best and quickest solution is probably still a PayPal rally. Frequent users should simply just donate a few bucks (remember when PayPal'ing, donate at least $2.50 or so or so much will be lost by the money they take, it's hardly worth donating at all). I have been thinking of a solution for this for years, even before I joined the WM community. I may have thought of something but unfortunately right now do not have the time to set up - however it will remain on my to-do list.
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Thank for your attention on tjis issue. There must be a solution for that, at least not 'completely impossible.
But the circut of money in 'ads' industry. Is just like 'everybody follow the rules here'.

Since the activities concerning 'advertising' may become a key factor in judgement of this issue. Here I add some more info. There are books about 'advertisement', or lots of internet materials available, but probably not everyone has time to read it. Let me just tell what is advertisement in this simple way:
The major target of ads is not to reach people who want the product, because people wants it already knows it. It is targeted to those people who doesn't want it, or even doesn't know it. Advertisement will let them know the product, and MAKE (sorry I use this word) them reallize that they want it.
This is why ads sponsors would be glad to pay even for a mouse click and a slight glance at what they are advertising. At least this make the clicker have a short memery about their brand name, or their product idea.
After read this, you may feel somehow uncomfortble about 'ads'. But sorry, this is just the prevailing commercial activity.

Please Post Your Comments on This Issue!
Anybody pass by here and reading this, if you have some opinion, comments, or different idea about this issue, please post here.
Maybe you are freeware developer, or commercial software developer, or common user, or moderator, it doesn't matter. What I'm thinking about is not trying to persuade the forum board to issue a new advertising policy, really need to be concerned is how to help those GREAT freeware developers OUT. Avertisement is just the best way that I can figure out by myself. But maybe you guys have better idea about this issue.
Here appeal to everybody:
If you are using a freeware, and find it's really helpful, or may bring additional conveineince and joy to your life. Please think about the life of the developer of the freeware. And first please consider a DONATION to them, if you can not, please think about what else you can do.
Everybody please leave your voice here, maybe we can work out a way together!

Also put a post about up on myblog (spam, not finished yet). Who knows maybe it will even help.
I'll be making a serious donation myself. I hope others will do the same.

Chainfire said:
Also put a post about up on myblog (spam, not finished yet). Who knows maybe it will even help.
I'll be making a serious donation myself. I hope others will do the same.
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Certainly yours will be a nice place with lots of chef want to take a look. I went there and found some projects not known to me in the past. Before I only know WMWifiRouter's from you, later WMLongLife, but that's already enough to call you a Master. Now you're master++.
Also noted that you already sent donation confirmation code on Sakajati's site.
You built a nice blog.

disappointment

Hi all,
one of the major reasons that convinced me to buy a xperia x1 was the fact that it was a supported device on xda-devs. Being that i previously was a owner of a Prophet and being that the quality of the roms for Prophet on this forum "was" (don't know how it is now) "sublime", support on xda-dev has become a requirement for me to buy a phone.
The fact that after Prophet i bought a XDA Flame proved to me that Hardware alone (Flame had the best hardware of that time) is nothing without functioning software. The ROM of the Flame was so poorly made that the phone was utterly useless.
In comes the XPERIA. Great hardware, great stock software (literally everything works). My only complaint about this device is the case, which is poorly designed (plastic and metal are not supposed to be used to support the same amount of stress due to their completely different structures -> therefore, cracks appear).
Unfortunately, although i admit that it is a much more complex device than the Prophet, i must say that the quality of the custom ROMS for Xperia is extremely LOW. MUCH, much lower than the stock roms. I don't care if my xperia can get into orbit (very fast) if i can't get any oxygen there (basic functions not working).
I usually am against people that complain about "free" software (these days, rom builders are more motivated by donations than by passion though). In this case (the roms for xperia) i must make an exception: the ROMS are way too buggy.
I admit, i haven't tested all of them (anybody have any sugestions ?) but i have tested quite a few.
I'm disappointed that i can't say to somebody that complains about some of these roms that he is wrong and that they are actually quite good

have you tested smabergs rom?

Itje's Touch-IT 10.4 is the best one to date.

I have tried both, and like the previous posts they are both good
Currently using 6.5

incearca asta
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=505214
pentru mine e una dintre cele mai bune.

XPERIA Cooked ROM quality
Ardealul, you speak me from the heart.
I have tested all ROMs on this page dated June and later and in everyone I got frustrated after either some minutes or days of usage. Unfortunately, the speed of the ROM being released tells in most cases also about their quality. Most of them are buggy and even after several update releases supposedly simple bugs like missing links (e.g. settings) are not resolved. I was thinking even to go back to the slow stock ROM.
After all, I am back to Smarberg Touch X. Fast, stable and very reliable.
I have the greatest respects for all developers and cannot imagine how much of their time they sacrifice to develop ROMs. However, pls take your time and release only stable and less buggy ROMs.

I know how you feel. This isn't to belittle the cooks, or anything like that. I strongly admire the work they've done, the effort they're putting in, and the new discoveries that they're making so that all of us can have better phones, but I do feel let down by the ROMs coming out. I mean, I keep hearing that X rom is super-fast, but then try it, and it's horribly slow, or it's got irritating bugs in it. And then there's the ROMs that are pretty muich identical to each other, with WinMo 6.5 and TF3D. I really hate TF3D. It's swish, but it's just so damned slow and cluttersome. Why can't all mod'ers make it an optional UC component?
What I want in a ROM is a simple OS that launches apps as quickly and efficiently as possible, and that makes them run their absolute best. Everyone, it seems, is focusing instead on making the OS look as swish as possible, at the expense of app performance.
For me, Jack's Lite 3.1 might be my keeper, at least until R4A comes out and he (or someone else) makes something lighter and faster. It's still a little chubbier than I'd like (Java, Search, SIM Manager, the games, who needs 'em?), and I guess it's missing some of the newfound optimisations (kudos again to the investigative talents of the cooks), but it does what I want, and quickly. I just think it's a shame that nothing's been released in the last four months since it came out that's faster.
Or, is there?

Nice one Guys,
It doesnt matter how much you say 'i dont want to belittle the cooks' because you just have by creating this thread and others for agreeing. Although you are all entitled to your thoughts and opinions, i think its extremely bad form to complain in such a way.
So where are the quality ROM's that you have created?...............exactly
Try it yourself before you pass judgement on someone elses time and effort, this community is becoming tired of the minority ruining it for the majority. Countless good cooks have left for us for less (maybe this is why you arent seeing the ROM's you desire)
I'm sure i speak for all the cooks out there when i say if you dont like their efforts then go back to stock ROM's or have a go yourself and see how you feel when someone comes along and makes light of the time and effort that you have put in.
My intention is not to come across agressively but as i say it doesnt take much to piss someone off and then we lose them and their ROM's forever.
Regards,
Creamy-Goodness

creamy said:
Nice one Guys,
It doesnt matter how much you say 'i dont want to belittle the cooks' because you just have by creating this thread and others for agreeing. Although you are all entitled to your thoughts and opinions, i think its extremely bad form to complain in such a way.
So where are the quality ROM's that you have created?...............exactly
Try it yourself before you pass judgement on someone elses time and effort, this community is becoming tired of the minority ruining it for the majority. Countless good cooks have left for us for less (maybe this is why you arent seeing the ROM's you desire)
I'm sure i speak for all the cooks out there when i say if you dont like their efforts then go back to stock ROM's or have a go yourself and see how you feel when someone comes along and makes light of the time and effort that you have put in.
My intention is not to come across agressively but as i say it doesnt take much to piss someone off and then we lose them and their ROM's forever.
Regards,
Creamy-Goodness
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i don't want to go into the details of the logical inference concept, but in short.... i don't agree with your point of view.

All I can say you people who complain about the quality of the roms need to show a little respect to the cooks. They do all this in their spare time and aren't paid (and donations don't pay the bills). If you don't like a rom, fine, but keep your opinion to yourself. If you don't have anything constructive to say shut up.

ardealul said:
i don't want to go into the details of the logical inference concept, but in short.... i don't agree with your point of view.
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Please dont, i'm sure my inferior intellect couldnt survive the fallout.
Again you are entitled to your opinion but if you read other threads eg: smabergs you will see that many do.

How many roms have you all (not creamy who is correct in what he says) made yourselves? Come on lets see how fast and so much better your roms are. I meen for Christ sake, Smaberg is making them without even having an X1 at the moment! The way i see it is this: The cooks do this in their spare time for free (some get donations, but prob not much) so that we can make our devices better and more enjoyable. At no point are you made to try them, made to keep them, made to come on here with pointless put downs.
If you dont like them, dont use them. But most of all dont slag off the cooks that are trying to make our devices better.

you simply don't have the RIGHTS to complain in a way like this!i don't see any constructive critisism in this thread, just lame complaints - so what's your point?! as others said before: you don't have to use these roms.
flash back to stock-rom and complain to SE about it's bugs - THAT'S what you've paid for, nothing more. certainly not for the free (!) modified roms from the cooks. so please, either get constructive or get a hobby to release your issues.
ps: someone said itje's 10.4 is best - i'd rather recommend 10.2. with 3 bugfixes applied it's still the fastest AND most stable rom. but you're searching for a light rom anyway - should be fairly easy compaired to cooking manila in.
again: remember what you've paid for and where you can DEMAND such things.

cjm1979 said:
How many roms have you all (not creamy who is correct in what he says) made yourselves? Come on lets see how fast and so much better your roms are. I meen for Christ sake, Smaberg is making them without even having an X1 at the moment! The way i see it is this: The cooks do this in their spare time for free (some get donations, but prob not much) so that we can make our devices better and more enjoyable. At no point are you made to try them, made to keep them, made to come on here with pointless put downs.
If you dont like them, dont use them. But most of all dont slag off the cooks that are trying to make our devices better.
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i do software integration for a living, which means that 80% of my time i test software.
If a developer that is supposed to provide me with support can't take criticism on a daily basis (criticism is also referred to as a bug in software development) i literally walk all over him and his team. Bugs are a normal byproduct of development and only if they are found (by people like me) and fixed by them (the developers - rom cooks), can a software be considered stable.
Everyone (and especially rom cooks), pls stop taking criticism negatively. You should be proud of the result of your work and not because some take the wrong approach and kiss your ass all the time. If one or two complain, they are aberrations and can be ignored. If however they represent 20 - 30 % of the population, then there really might be a problem.
In my opinion, people that contradict critics just because they criticize are a lot more of a problem for a community than the critics ever will be.
Always remember: a good piece of software is only good if it already fixed hundreds of bugs found in previous versions. And even that one, compared to future ones, will be considered "a piece of crap".
p.s.: nature tends to filter weaklings out of the gene pool of species

ardealul said:
i do software integration for a living, which means that 80% of my time i test software.
If a developer that is supposed to provide me with support can't take criticism on a daily basis (criticism is also referred to as a bug in software development) i literally walk all over him and his team.
p.s.: nature tends to filter weaklings out of the gene pool of species
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So the cooks are supposed to provide you with the roms? Are your "teams" paid to do it for their living? If your a software genius, why dont you show off your skills and cook a rom for us to pick through and test?
ps: I take it nature must of missed you somehow?

IMO,if you really want a nice rom, you could actually approach them in a nice way so that they can improve that bug in their next release rather than creating a thread that tells them that their work are full of bugs... in that way we could help the cooks in developing a working rom..

I too have recently come from the Prophet scene, where I tried a few ROMs, and all provided much more speed and stability compared to the official ROM.
I must confess I have only tried smaberg's and itje's ROMs (the numbering convention implies enormous amounts of time invested in them). I am currently using itje's 10.4 ROM (10.31 was indeed slow) - and this is an excellent ROM. I would recommend it. Some people have encountered certain problems, but most (muyself included) haven't.
However this is not a commercial activity (a commercial software company -even HTC will have a similar structure) has PAID developers, PAID internal betatesters etc - and we all know the outcome
This is a community, unfortunately the community spirit is under pressure at the moment - we all need to actively contribute to improve things we consider necessary. the ,000s of posts on the ROM threads demonstrate there is massive feedback, and response from the cooks.
I hear what you're saying, but a) a cooked ROM will be superior to the stock one, and b) if you find bugs, communicate them, I am sure they will be looked at and resolved - much faster than in a commercial software company!

ardealul said:
i do software integration for a living, which means that 80% of my time i test software.
If a developer that is supposed to provide me with support can't take criticism on a daily basis (criticism is also referred to as a bug in software development) i literally walk all over him and his team. Bugs are a normal byproduct of development and only if they are found (by people like me) and fixed by them (the developers - rom cooks), can a software be considered stable.
Everyone (and especially rom cooks), pls stop taking criticism negatively. You should be proud of the result of your work and not because some take the wrong approach and kiss your ass all the time. If one or two complain, they are aberrations and can be ignored. If however they represent 20 - 30 % of the population, then there really might be a problem.
In my opinion, people that contradict critics just because they criticize are a lot more of a problem for a community than the critics ever will be.
Always remember: a good piece of software is only good if it already fixed hundreds of bugs found in previous versions. And even that one, compared to future ones, will be considered "a piece of crap".
p.s.: nature tends to filter weaklings out of the gene pool of species
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out of interest and because i've got some spare time today, i've been skimming through your last posts. most of the time you've "reported bugs" that have been announced many times before in the corresponding.
that's not bug-reporting or critisism in a good way, that's just complaining and demanding. and obviously you don't bother to search for the fixes. which is the reason of me being so "direct" to you: posts like these fill up the threads and make it nearly impossible to find answers for those who search. all you get are so-called "bug-reports". you say you're "in the business" - then you should know how helpful these reports really are... (for starters: where are the real bugs in your first post? you just complain about the "system".)
the fact that this isn't an inc. where you can demand such things from has already been adressed. even IF you have donated to a cook - why do you think you can demand something like what you did?
hope you don't take this as a personal attack too much. i'm simply trying to point out: you're at the wrong place with this, write a letter to SE or cook a rom yourself.

well. there is no such thing as a perfect rom. bugs will take place.
Even in a paid for environment like Microsoft in which you pay loads of money for software and teams are dedicated for troubleshooting. Things still might go wrong.
It's human to make a mistake. The cookers try to fix the most prominent ones, but minor bugs might get missed.
In addition, it seems that ROMs behave differently on different X1s making things a tad unpredictable.
My advice to the disappointed: Be patient. Perhaps the next release will be better. INFORM about the bugs. do not DEMAND.
My advice to the cookers: Have a big heart. Enjoy the learning experience. Try your best. not for us. but for you.

solution...... don't like the custom rom - stick to the original rom, don't like that? change the phone. i don't remember xda chef ever commit that they will provide a better rom for users. so if you don't like it just sell the phone or you can always ask sony ericsson to give you the rom you always wanted. just stop creating such a negative tread and let us enjoy custom roms and our xperia

Database Develop

welcome