disappointment - XPERIA X1 ROM Development

Hi all,
one of the major reasons that convinced me to buy a xperia x1 was the fact that it was a supported device on xda-devs. Being that i previously was a owner of a Prophet and being that the quality of the roms for Prophet on this forum "was" (don't know how it is now) "sublime", support on xda-dev has become a requirement for me to buy a phone.
The fact that after Prophet i bought a XDA Flame proved to me that Hardware alone (Flame had the best hardware of that time) is nothing without functioning software. The ROM of the Flame was so poorly made that the phone was utterly useless.
In comes the XPERIA. Great hardware, great stock software (literally everything works). My only complaint about this device is the case, which is poorly designed (plastic and metal are not supposed to be used to support the same amount of stress due to their completely different structures -> therefore, cracks appear).
Unfortunately, although i admit that it is a much more complex device than the Prophet, i must say that the quality of the custom ROMS for Xperia is extremely LOW. MUCH, much lower than the stock roms. I don't care if my xperia can get into orbit (very fast) if i can't get any oxygen there (basic functions not working).
I usually am against people that complain about "free" software (these days, rom builders are more motivated by donations than by passion though). In this case (the roms for xperia) i must make an exception: the ROMS are way too buggy.
I admit, i haven't tested all of them (anybody have any sugestions ?) but i have tested quite a few.
I'm disappointed that i can't say to somebody that complains about some of these roms that he is wrong and that they are actually quite good

have you tested smabergs rom?

Itje's Touch-IT 10.4 is the best one to date.

I have tried both, and like the previous posts they are both good
Currently using 6.5

incearca asta
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=505214
pentru mine e una dintre cele mai bune.

XPERIA Cooked ROM quality
Ardealul, you speak me from the heart.
I have tested all ROMs on this page dated June and later and in everyone I got frustrated after either some minutes or days of usage. Unfortunately, the speed of the ROM being released tells in most cases also about their quality. Most of them are buggy and even after several update releases supposedly simple bugs like missing links (e.g. settings) are not resolved. I was thinking even to go back to the slow stock ROM.
After all, I am back to Smarberg Touch X. Fast, stable and very reliable.
I have the greatest respects for all developers and cannot imagine how much of their time they sacrifice to develop ROMs. However, pls take your time and release only stable and less buggy ROMs.

I know how you feel. This isn't to belittle the cooks, or anything like that. I strongly admire the work they've done, the effort they're putting in, and the new discoveries that they're making so that all of us can have better phones, but I do feel let down by the ROMs coming out. I mean, I keep hearing that X rom is super-fast, but then try it, and it's horribly slow, or it's got irritating bugs in it. And then there's the ROMs that are pretty muich identical to each other, with WinMo 6.5 and TF3D. I really hate TF3D. It's swish, but it's just so damned slow and cluttersome. Why can't all mod'ers make it an optional UC component?
What I want in a ROM is a simple OS that launches apps as quickly and efficiently as possible, and that makes them run their absolute best. Everyone, it seems, is focusing instead on making the OS look as swish as possible, at the expense of app performance.
For me, Jack's Lite 3.1 might be my keeper, at least until R4A comes out and he (or someone else) makes something lighter and faster. It's still a little chubbier than I'd like (Java, Search, SIM Manager, the games, who needs 'em?), and I guess it's missing some of the newfound optimisations (kudos again to the investigative talents of the cooks), but it does what I want, and quickly. I just think it's a shame that nothing's been released in the last four months since it came out that's faster.
Or, is there?

Nice one Guys,
It doesnt matter how much you say 'i dont want to belittle the cooks' because you just have by creating this thread and others for agreeing. Although you are all entitled to your thoughts and opinions, i think its extremely bad form to complain in such a way.
So where are the quality ROM's that you have created?...............exactly
Try it yourself before you pass judgement on someone elses time and effort, this community is becoming tired of the minority ruining it for the majority. Countless good cooks have left for us for less (maybe this is why you arent seeing the ROM's you desire)
I'm sure i speak for all the cooks out there when i say if you dont like their efforts then go back to stock ROM's or have a go yourself and see how you feel when someone comes along and makes light of the time and effort that you have put in.
My intention is not to come across agressively but as i say it doesnt take much to piss someone off and then we lose them and their ROM's forever.
Regards,
Creamy-Goodness

creamy said:
Nice one Guys,
It doesnt matter how much you say 'i dont want to belittle the cooks' because you just have by creating this thread and others for agreeing. Although you are all entitled to your thoughts and opinions, i think its extremely bad form to complain in such a way.
So where are the quality ROM's that you have created?...............exactly
Try it yourself before you pass judgement on someone elses time and effort, this community is becoming tired of the minority ruining it for the majority. Countless good cooks have left for us for less (maybe this is why you arent seeing the ROM's you desire)
I'm sure i speak for all the cooks out there when i say if you dont like their efforts then go back to stock ROM's or have a go yourself and see how you feel when someone comes along and makes light of the time and effort that you have put in.
My intention is not to come across agressively but as i say it doesnt take much to piss someone off and then we lose them and their ROM's forever.
Regards,
Creamy-Goodness
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i don't want to go into the details of the logical inference concept, but in short.... i don't agree with your point of view.

All I can say you people who complain about the quality of the roms need to show a little respect to the cooks. They do all this in their spare time and aren't paid (and donations don't pay the bills). If you don't like a rom, fine, but keep your opinion to yourself. If you don't have anything constructive to say shut up.

ardealul said:
i don't want to go into the details of the logical inference concept, but in short.... i don't agree with your point of view.
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Please dont, i'm sure my inferior intellect couldnt survive the fallout.
Again you are entitled to your opinion but if you read other threads eg: smabergs you will see that many do.

How many roms have you all (not creamy who is correct in what he says) made yourselves? Come on lets see how fast and so much better your roms are. I meen for Christ sake, Smaberg is making them without even having an X1 at the moment! The way i see it is this: The cooks do this in their spare time for free (some get donations, but prob not much) so that we can make our devices better and more enjoyable. At no point are you made to try them, made to keep them, made to come on here with pointless put downs.
If you dont like them, dont use them. But most of all dont slag off the cooks that are trying to make our devices better.

you simply don't have the RIGHTS to complain in a way like this!i don't see any constructive critisism in this thread, just lame complaints - so what's your point?! as others said before: you don't have to use these roms.
flash back to stock-rom and complain to SE about it's bugs - THAT'S what you've paid for, nothing more. certainly not for the free (!) modified roms from the cooks. so please, either get constructive or get a hobby to release your issues.
ps: someone said itje's 10.4 is best - i'd rather recommend 10.2. with 3 bugfixes applied it's still the fastest AND most stable rom. but you're searching for a light rom anyway - should be fairly easy compaired to cooking manila in.
again: remember what you've paid for and where you can DEMAND such things.

cjm1979 said:
How many roms have you all (not creamy who is correct in what he says) made yourselves? Come on lets see how fast and so much better your roms are. I meen for Christ sake, Smaberg is making them without even having an X1 at the moment! The way i see it is this: The cooks do this in their spare time for free (some get donations, but prob not much) so that we can make our devices better and more enjoyable. At no point are you made to try them, made to keep them, made to come on here with pointless put downs.
If you dont like them, dont use them. But most of all dont slag off the cooks that are trying to make our devices better.
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i do software integration for a living, which means that 80% of my time i test software.
If a developer that is supposed to provide me with support can't take criticism on a daily basis (criticism is also referred to as a bug in software development) i literally walk all over him and his team. Bugs are a normal byproduct of development and only if they are found (by people like me) and fixed by them (the developers - rom cooks), can a software be considered stable.
Everyone (and especially rom cooks), pls stop taking criticism negatively. You should be proud of the result of your work and not because some take the wrong approach and kiss your ass all the time. If one or two complain, they are aberrations and can be ignored. If however they represent 20 - 30 % of the population, then there really might be a problem.
In my opinion, people that contradict critics just because they criticize are a lot more of a problem for a community than the critics ever will be.
Always remember: a good piece of software is only good if it already fixed hundreds of bugs found in previous versions. And even that one, compared to future ones, will be considered "a piece of crap".
p.s.: nature tends to filter weaklings out of the gene pool of species

ardealul said:
i do software integration for a living, which means that 80% of my time i test software.
If a developer that is supposed to provide me with support can't take criticism on a daily basis (criticism is also referred to as a bug in software development) i literally walk all over him and his team.
p.s.: nature tends to filter weaklings out of the gene pool of species
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So the cooks are supposed to provide you with the roms? Are your "teams" paid to do it for their living? If your a software genius, why dont you show off your skills and cook a rom for us to pick through and test?
ps: I take it nature must of missed you somehow?

IMO,if you really want a nice rom, you could actually approach them in a nice way so that they can improve that bug in their next release rather than creating a thread that tells them that their work are full of bugs... in that way we could help the cooks in developing a working rom..

I too have recently come from the Prophet scene, where I tried a few ROMs, and all provided much more speed and stability compared to the official ROM.
I must confess I have only tried smaberg's and itje's ROMs (the numbering convention implies enormous amounts of time invested in them). I am currently using itje's 10.4 ROM (10.31 was indeed slow) - and this is an excellent ROM. I would recommend it. Some people have encountered certain problems, but most (muyself included) haven't.
However this is not a commercial activity (a commercial software company -even HTC will have a similar structure) has PAID developers, PAID internal betatesters etc - and we all know the outcome
This is a community, unfortunately the community spirit is under pressure at the moment - we all need to actively contribute to improve things we consider necessary. the ,000s of posts on the ROM threads demonstrate there is massive feedback, and response from the cooks.
I hear what you're saying, but a) a cooked ROM will be superior to the stock one, and b) if you find bugs, communicate them, I am sure they will be looked at and resolved - much faster than in a commercial software company!

ardealul said:
i do software integration for a living, which means that 80% of my time i test software.
If a developer that is supposed to provide me with support can't take criticism on a daily basis (criticism is also referred to as a bug in software development) i literally walk all over him and his team. Bugs are a normal byproduct of development and only if they are found (by people like me) and fixed by them (the developers - rom cooks), can a software be considered stable.
Everyone (and especially rom cooks), pls stop taking criticism negatively. You should be proud of the result of your work and not because some take the wrong approach and kiss your ass all the time. If one or two complain, they are aberrations and can be ignored. If however they represent 20 - 30 % of the population, then there really might be a problem.
In my opinion, people that contradict critics just because they criticize are a lot more of a problem for a community than the critics ever will be.
Always remember: a good piece of software is only good if it already fixed hundreds of bugs found in previous versions. And even that one, compared to future ones, will be considered "a piece of crap".
p.s.: nature tends to filter weaklings out of the gene pool of species
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out of interest and because i've got some spare time today, i've been skimming through your last posts. most of the time you've "reported bugs" that have been announced many times before in the corresponding.
that's not bug-reporting or critisism in a good way, that's just complaining and demanding. and obviously you don't bother to search for the fixes. which is the reason of me being so "direct" to you: posts like these fill up the threads and make it nearly impossible to find answers for those who search. all you get are so-called "bug-reports". you say you're "in the business" - then you should know how helpful these reports really are... (for starters: where are the real bugs in your first post? you just complain about the "system".)
the fact that this isn't an inc. where you can demand such things from has already been adressed. even IF you have donated to a cook - why do you think you can demand something like what you did?
hope you don't take this as a personal attack too much. i'm simply trying to point out: you're at the wrong place with this, write a letter to SE or cook a rom yourself.

well. there is no such thing as a perfect rom. bugs will take place.
Even in a paid for environment like Microsoft in which you pay loads of money for software and teams are dedicated for troubleshooting. Things still might go wrong.
It's human to make a mistake. The cookers try to fix the most prominent ones, but minor bugs might get missed.
In addition, it seems that ROMs behave differently on different X1s making things a tad unpredictable.
My advice to the disappointed: Be patient. Perhaps the next release will be better. INFORM about the bugs. do not DEMAND.
My advice to the cookers: Have a big heart. Enjoy the learning experience. Try your best. not for us. but for you.

solution...... don't like the custom rom - stick to the original rom, don't like that? change the phone. i don't remember xda chef ever commit that they will provide a better rom for users. so if you don't like it just sell the phone or you can always ask sony ericsson to give you the rom you always wanted. just stop creating such a negative tread and let us enjoy custom roms and our xperia

Related

To All You Guys Nagging Us To Provide Links For Wm6 Rom

I have noticed that many people ask us (that allready got the ROM) to provide download-links, and even mail it to you.
You have to understand that we cannot provide all new readers with that same info over and over.
If you read the two posts:
WM6 rom for wizard: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=289799
and
about the crossbow wwe leak: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=290277
you can easily figure out yourself how to get hold of it!
It's in your own best interest.
Even people here are helpful, all the post like "wm6 for me too plzzzzz mail it to [email protected]in" is quite irritating.
So "noobs" - please read those above posts carefully, and you wil figure out how to download it yourself!
Best regards
HansMarius
this is probably the best thread ever made
I guarantee you someone will come in here and ask for a link to it...
This is part of a big problem with mobile phone message boards I've seen across all makes and models.
Newbies come in asking hundreds of the same exacty question over and over and over again all because they're too lazy to figure it out for themselves like we all had to before them.
</rant>
I don't mind helping people out, but when it's something simple, easy, or has been discussed to extreme length here, it is extremely frustrating.
message to members and senior members:
guys be careful who you give the crossbow link to. remember that noobs rarely read threads and take the time to know what you have to do before flashing a rom. so to avoid the hundreds of threads about noobs bricking their phone lets just use our discretion on giving out those links.
I propose the opposite, give links willy nilly, let them brick, and then let them learn at cost.
Anyone who posts info about flashing Crossbow, please always pre-pend with a disclaimer to the effect that it will cause sterility and permanent flaccidity.
None of these roms are retail AFAIK. Side-effects will occur.
V
I to gave willing away links over PM a couple a days ago, but now i'm getting pretty frustrated because it takes up to much of my time tom answer.
This post was never intended as a "****ing noobs" post, but they (yes YOU) must understand that this takes up to much of our time, and we must use our precious time to set up our phones properly after we flashed the WM6 ROM;-)
Wow!
It took me a whopping 2 minutes to find the rom... Not that I actually downloaded it or anything...
But let's say that I did download the thing... And it were to happen to install just fine on my 8125... I think that I too, would rather spend time installing things like a camera proggie, and the odds and ends that a plain vanilla rom such as this probably doesn't contain... than to waste precious time responding to the non-existent requests for it's location...
I'd even bet that M$ might even put a "windows update" button in there somewhere just to tease us... Probably just tattles on ya tho... Anyone that HAS been brave enough to click on the "update" button capture what is going out? where the request goes? what the request contains? (I'll bet it just comes back with "no updates available" tho...)
Sure, it's easy to say "let the n00bs brick their phone"... Can't we all just get along? Don't be haters... Yeah, right... What the hell do I know... I'm just a n00b myself, but at least I'm a n00b that knows how to read, and tries to spend time actually reading the forums before making an @$$ out of myself...
Just my .02
PT
I Agree with vijay555 to give them the links BUT AT THEIR OWN RISK
Let them make a SmartBrick
i know it's kinda cool to have the latest and greatest, but what's the point if you are to make your super expensive machine into a mega-expensive paper-weight... doesn't really make any sense though...
Rumor has it that Microsoft secretly *WANTS* these ROMS to be leaked and tested by the phone geeks.
They allow Vista to be officially tested but it would be too difficult to go through any program like that - especially given the nature of how the OS is loaded.
Who better to test them, discover patches and fixes, and give pros and cons then the phone nerds. It also drums up interest for those who don't flash ROMS all the time. Do you realize how many major phone websites are already publishing Crossbow articles based on the leaked ROMS? You think Microsoft dislikes the publicity?
Apple went ape-**** because someone was using the pictures they provide on their website for free. Why do you think there has been ZERO comments from Microsoft when an OS is leaked 6 months early?
By the way, when you provide a link for a lossless photo of the icons on the homescreen of a yet to be released phone, people are going to download it:
http://images.apple.com/movies/us/pr/photos/iphone/iphone_home.tif.zip
I was able to turn that picture into all the icons needed in under 5 minutes. Thank God I hate Apple so much I'd never use them!
-Mc
Please send all WM6 rom requests to [email protected]! lol
McHale:
Why do you think there has been ZERO comments from Microsoft when an OS is leaked 6 months early?
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That comment isn't correct. Microsoft has contacted this board and asked for the roms to be removed. Very politely I might add. I have every respect for them for that.
Regarding the rumour that Microsoft wants their roms to be leaked, well rumour has it that Kate Moss wants me to eat sushi off her naked body. As much as I would like to believe it to be true, it's unlikely and probably a self-serving reflection of my own inner desires. She probably wouldn't want me slobbering over her after enjoying Adonis, Pete Doherty, and likewise, I doubt Microsoft is short of beta testers when they have their entire body of employees to test for them.
We're just freeloaders... but resourceful and dedicated
V
vijay555 said:
That comment isn't correct. Microsoft has contacted this board and asked for the roms to be removed. Very politely I might add. I have every respect for them for that.
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that's very cool. I got the rumor information from a couple Microsoft Reps who were at my company when we were discussing corporate licensing and the future of OS's (including mobile). Sales guys...
Regarding the rumour that Microsoft wants their roms to be leaked, well rumour has it that Kate Moss wants me to eat sushi off her naked body. As much as I would like to believe it to be true, it's unlikely and probably a self-serving reflection of my own inner desires. She probably wouldn't want me slobbering over her after enjoying Adonis, Pete Doherty, and likewise, I doubt Microsoft is short of beta testers when they have their entire body of employees to test for them.
We're just freeloaders... but resourceful and dedicated
V
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you know, I heard that second rumor as well but I could have sworn it was me and not you and it wasn't Sushi... it was sausage pizza.
Man that would burn...
-Mc
that's very cool. I got the rumor information from a couple Microsoft Reps who were at my company when we were discussing corporate licensing and the future of OS's (including mobile). Sales guys...
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Man if we'd known that, we could have "facilitated" a leak quite some time back! A lot of people have been sitting on the roms for a while AFAIK.
sausage pizza
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Chipolata or Cumberland?!
V
I will say it again though. I think Microsoft has been very cool about us playing with the WM6 ROM and not getting Apple-sue happy. They've also been cool about us cooking custom ROMS with bits and pieces from all of them.
With as often as many of us upgrade Windows Mobile devices, this only encourages most of us to buy the next device that has it pre-installed. It won't keep many of us from upgrading because we have the new OS.
If it would make MS happy, I'm sure most of us would be happy to take part in a Beta program and report our findings as well as fixes (though they are all here on XDA if they take the time to read).
And as I stated days ago, let's not do anything that jeopardizes this fine forum or any of us on here. If MS says stop, we should take it someplace else.
-Mc
I entirely agree with you.
I was doing some work with some obscure Microsoft APIs yesterday, and as much as people love to shoot them down and whatever, we reap the rewards of the incredible amount of work that goes into supporting functions that we may never even get to use!
I specifically chose to use the phone I do because I can rip it apart software/ROM wise.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=287178#post1082343
Keep up the good work, one and all. Hack away!
V
True that
I don't do much posting but I have to agree with you guys. M$ can put the hurt on the board/forum really fast. Why not have a semi-approving Uncle and not create another "Napster" situation. M$ wants all the info they can get without the attitudes. Agree ????

Rom-on-demand

Honorable Chefs - distinguished consumers.
www.romondemand.com/org has been registered as a strategic decision elaborating the feasibility of providing personalized Rom's to end-consumers.
The idea generated by reading to many times "can you include this' - "can you remove that" etc
So, why not offering personalized - tailor made ROM's ? Customer creates a wish-list on the webpage - available Chef -in his domain of expertise receives the order - constructs - customer downloads - Chef follow-up. Chef gets paid - happy customer with own ROM.
Simply presented, I know, but got to start somewhere no?
Would like to know the opinion of the Chef's on this idea. PM me to elaborate further on together if this is tempting or not.
And whoever thinks that a personalized ROM is crap is free to flame - punch me. I own the idea. Stupid or clever as it is.
good idea but i don't think most of the chefs here cook roms as a profession. Most of them simply do it because its a hobby and invest their time into it. If they wanted money i am sure they wouldn't post their hardwork here for others to steal
nothing wrong with that I guess. Use your skills to pay the bills
I think it's a great idea, however keep the following in mind:
1) How much you charge vs. how much people are willing to pay vs. how many people will actually use this service. Even though alot of people say "can you include this..." doesn't mean they are going to pay for someone else to do it. Alot of people on this forum will tinker themselves rather than pay the $$. Also, make sure you aren't putting too much time into this. If i ask you to build be a rom just like the stock but with App ABC built in.... you might say sure...$30! But if it takes you 3 hours to figure out how to properly integrate it...that is alot of work for $30. Plus if you can't figure it out...you get $0
2) Make sure you don't pirate anyone else's work without first asking. If I ask you for a ROM "just like Dutty's latest but with A, B, and Z" you might want to take Dutty's and update it. You will not get the best reputation here if you take Dutty's hard work and tweak it just a bit and turn it for a profit.
3) Be sure you are prepared for any legal implications. The legality of putting these ROMs up, let alone selling them is a grey area. Make sure you are ready to deal with any possible consequences.
If you got all that covered...go for it!
bengalih said:
I think it's a great idea, however keep the following in mind:
1) How much you charge vs. how much people are willing to pay vs. how many people will actually use this service. Even though alot of people say "can you include this..." doesn't mean they are going to pay for someone else to do it. Alot of people on this forum will tinker themselves rather than pay the $$. Also, make sure you aren't putting too much time into this. If i ask you to build be a rom just like the stock but with App ABC built in.... you might say sure...$30! But if it takes you 3 hours to figure out how to properly integrate it...that is alot of work for $30. Plus if you can't figure it out...you get $0
2) Make sure you don't pirate anyone else's work without first asking. If I ask you for a ROM "just like Dutty's latest but with A, B, and Z" you might want to take Dutty's and update it. You will not get the best reputation here if you take Dutty's hard work and tweak it just a bit and turn it for a profit.
3) Be sure you are prepared for any legal implications. The legality of putting these ROMs up, let alone selling them is a grey area. Make sure you are ready to deal with any possible consequences.
If you got all that covered...go for it!
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As for a legal stance you'd technically be selling your service rather than the rom itself seeing it is a customization.
CUSTEL said:
As for a legal stance you'd technically be selling your service rather than the rom itself seeing it is a customization.
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yes but you'd still be breaking HTC/AT&T/MS property rights. Again, it's a grey area...just like all of us here freely distributing them.
I don't think selling them is any worse (since you would be selling the service), but it's stil grey... and anytime money is involved it can be higher profile.
Custel , you made some valid points, though it would not be the intention to steel without authorization already cooked ROM's.
I would either see it as a Chefs-united platform where stock ROM's are used and tweaked - within the legal bounderies.
No, a MS VC would not be added for free and if so, royalties would be paid to MS.
Same counts for applic's such as coreplayer etc.
A matter of how the negotiations will go with those guys.
Purpose is for them to understand that we can integrate officialy their soft at a minimum price avoiding that plenty d-load them somewhere onon-officialy.
I do not see loosers within this set-up (yet)
No misunderstanding !
Benghali wrote : 2) Make sure you don't pirate anyone else's work without first asking. If I ask you for a ROM "just like Dutty's latest but with A, B, and Z" you might want to take Dutty's and update it. You will not get the best reputation here if you take Dutty's hard work and tweak it just a bit and turn it for a profit.
I would not even touch these ROMS and they will even not be on the website.
It would be the Chef's whom are jumping in which start with a Vanilla base and customize the ROM on demand (Customer can provide desired wallpaper - list a wich of soft - tweaks - cabs etc whatever his level of PDA understanding is)
So, no, the ROM's made by the CHEF's would not be simply refurbished.
(as this never ever happens among the chefs neither )
ceevee369 said:
Custel , you made some valid points, though it would not be the intention to steel without authorization already cooked ROM's.
I would either see it as a Chefs-united platform where stock ROM's are used and tweaked - within the legal bounderies.
No, a MS VC would not be added for free and if so, royalties would be paid to MS.
Same counts for applic's such as coreplayer etc.
A matter of how the negotiations will go with those guys.
Purpose is for them to understand that we can integrate officialy their soft at a minimum price avoiding that plenty d-load them somewhere onon-officialy.
I do not see loosers within this set-up (yet)
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Just pointing out that I made all those original posts, Custel was just quoting me. But, more importantly...you talk about doing thing within "legal boundaries."
There are no legal boundaries for cooking ROMs. It is against all HTC/MS/AT&T licensing agreements to decompile, modify, and redistribute their code (and for profit nonetheless!).
You seem to be approaching this as a legitimate business venture where you will pay royalties to various manufacturers. I don't want to put down your idea, but unless you have some major connections at some very big corporations, this idea would not even be entertained.
Anything you do would pretty much be regulated fully by yourself. MS isn't going to license VC command to you. Other smaller software companies may play along, but to be honest such a licensing structure for an endeavor like this probably is overkill.
You also seem to be thinking of not just making these ROMs yourself, but brokering it out to multiple chefs who will be taking orders. Again, it could work, but is ambitious to lay out a structure like this.
Again, I like your idea...I just don't know how realistic it is based on the amount of transactions you would be performing. And, please remember if you actually achieved such a structure, your site and services would surely be put out there and would draw attention from the major vendors who would probably investigate and send you cease-and-desists. Remember, the whole act of cooking and distibuting copyrighted ROMs is not withing the agreements of the vendors.
bengalih said:
I think it's a great idea, however keep the following in mind:
1) How much you charge vs. how much people are willing to pay vs. how many people will actually use this service. Even though alot of people say "can you include this..." doesn't mean they are going to pay for someone else to do it. Alot of people on this forum will tinker themselves rather than pay the $$. Also, make sure you aren't putting too much time into this. If i ask you to build be a rom just like the stock but with App ABC built in.... you might say sure...$30! But if it takes you 3 hours to figure out how to properly integrate it...that is alot of work for $30. Plus if you can't figure it out...you get $0
2) Make sure you don't pirate anyone else's work without first asking. If I ask you for a ROM "just like Dutty's latest but with A, B, and Z" you might want to take Dutty's and update it. You will not get the best reputation here if you take Dutty's hard work and tweak it just a bit and turn it for a profit.
3) Be sure you are prepared for any legal implications. The legality of putting these ROMs up, let alone selling them is a grey area. Make sure you are ready to deal with any possible consequences.
If you got all that covered...go for it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not too mention that Dutty, & a few other chef's remove all the RGU's. So unless the creator is the one helping you, prepare to spend a lot of time digging out the defunct dsm files from the rom.
I think it's an okay, don't get me wrong, there are a lot of people that are clueless about this stuff & still want things there way, but you hardly own the idea. The idea is what gave birth to this forum, & if you have been here for any length of time you'll see that people here have in some instances paid others to make or customize roms for them in the past.
I also don't think you'll get away with charging much for your "Service", as the hard work, all the coding, was already done by MS & HTC. Thinking that you'd get MS to sanction this is wishful. Remember, MS at one point stopped XDA from distributing their roms, & one of the big reasons it turns it's head today is because of all of the free bug fixes & beta testing they get out of this community. If your just selling roms, ahem...services, then you'll likely not be any source of needed data for them & there will be no reason to let you keep going at it.
Customizing already customized roms gets even grayer, because now you have artwork & custom icons that were created by members specifically for certain chefs, i.e. Collinssc frequently does custom art for Dutty's roms.
Again, there is a lot of stuff to work thru here, & several are pretty serious, such as licensing that already prohibits distribution, not to mention all of the required technical support & while you can use all the disclaimers in the world, that won't stop someone from sueing you when their device bricks. Take a look at all of the cooked rom threads, some have thousands upon thousands of little bug complaints, that adds up to a lot of hours when you have made a lot of individual changes to a rom & it's not always the chef that comes up with the solution for the bugs. I personally never used a Dutty rom because I couldn't use MediaNet & BBC at the same time, but I wanted to, so I disected several ROM's & found the issue & the fix. Same with certain roms & TCPMP. Multiply these issues by the number of each user personal taste in apps &, well you see my point.
I'm a red blooded capitalist thru & thru, so I say go for it, but there'll be no easy money made here. It'll take a lot of time to get any coordinated effort involving so many variables off & running. Good luck.
It's a shame this idea has been shot down already because I wanted to know how much it was going to cost. Hell, I have three other friends that would be interested in buying a ROM. Sometimes, people would rather hire someone with experience.
bennyj71 said:
It's a shame this idea has been shot down already because I wanted to know how much it was going to cost. Hell, I have three other friends that would be interested in buying a ROM. Sometimes, people would rather hire someone with experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the idea still lives but needs further investigation and I want to know the Chef's view on this first.
Will come back with more news.
i already found Taiwanese web builder understanding the complexity but thinks it is more than feasible to build a platform fitting the needs.

State of our development!

First off let me say this isnt my style, I am not one for airing anyones business. I wanted to keep the matter private and handle it behind the scenes so that this small issue didnt turn in to an all out war. As you can see this is exactly what happened.
I am only doing this because i want to clear the air for everyone involved, you all got worked up over nothing really. I will give you a very brief explanation of what happened, and i will not name any names.
With that being said, i first want to make an apology to the 2 devs involved:
Bananacakes, i think that i might not have stated my case very well with you, and based on your posts i feel that there might have been a language barrier and you may have taken what i said out of context. All i ever wanted was for you to talk to me about the issue so i could get your side of the story and make a determination.
WildChild, im sorry that i did not delete BC's rant with everyone elses. I didnt mean to make you look like an a$$. I wanted to give BC a voice on the matter but i didnt want to censor him completely. And in hindsight i may have damaged your name. Was not my intention, and i feel bad that it happened.
In this open community it is acceptable to share and borrow from others but its common courtesy to give the other dev credit for their work.
***********
A brief summary of what happened:
A MEMBER of the community (not one of the devs involved) brought to me an issue of similarities between 2 dev's. provided some screen shots and asked me to investigate the matter, as it APPEARED to be a Kanging issue (to get the story straight, it was MORE than just a so called script). So i contacted both devs involved, one was very cooperative and the other never contacted me. I waited 5 days before i took the next step at contacting the dev and this is where it all turned really ugly and public.
***********
Now, in this issue there has been numerous attacks on each others and some very ugly things said. Im willing to overlook all of those at this moment as i know a lot of you were upset. Loosing 2 dev's is a serious matter when we dont have that many to begin with. If i see anymore angry posts towards one another i will not hesitate to issue temporary/permanent bans (depending on severity).
Now quick, everyone, group hug!
I am going to leave it open for in case anyone wants to comment or beg either dev to come back. But the instant that someone gets negative toward either dev (i dont care if you talk bad about me, lol) i will lock this from comments.
I had this as a sticky, but in reality there isnt much going on in here right now, so really there is no need. I will only sticky if it starts to fall towards the bottom.
Please come back WC , WE MISS YOU
Was there wrong doing? Is the HoliRaider thread coming back?
jazzmoe76 said:
Was there wrong doing? Is the HoliRaider thread coming back?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nothing has been proved at this point. And the HoliRaider thread is being looked at by pstevep.
jazzmoe76 said:
Was there wrong doing? Is the HoliRaider thread coming back?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am waiting to talk to bananacakes before any decisions are made. I'm hoping we can work all of this out in a friendly non confrontational way.
I will post here any updates.
Thanks everyone for cooperating.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
Everyone needs to just take it easy and not take things too serious. We should just stay focused on the prize, which is producing the best ROMs this phone has ever seen. All that arguing doesn’t get us closer to our goals, but hinders it. So Bananacakes and WC, just chill out and come back, your both good developers. After everyone is back to work and producing again, all this will be forgotten. Especially with ICS just around the corner, we'll need you even more.
NIKKG said:
Everyone needs to just take it easy and not take things too serious. We should just stay focused on the prize, which is producing the best ROMs this phone has ever seen. All that arguing doesn’t get us closer to our goals, but hinders it. So Bananacakes and WC, just chill out and come back, your both good developers. After everyone is back to work and producing again, all this will be forgotten. Especially with ICS just around the corner, we'll need you even more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+ 1
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA App
So... The only 2 devs that we had left.. are gone?
Language barrier? Is one of y'alls native language something other than English?
Sent from my HTC Vivid
Crimson Ghoul said:
So... The only 2 devs that we had left.. are gone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I havent seen any comments through this whole ordeal from Vhjc or PirateGhost, so i would assume they are still with us. As far as i know its just WildChild and BananaCakes that have decided to leave us. We do hope that they will reverse their decision and decide to come back.
haggardh said:
Language barrier? Is one of y'alls native language something other than English?
Sent from my HTC Vivid
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, and Bananacakes has stated on a few occasions that his english isnt that great. I personally felt that it was pretty good, but there was definitely some misunderstandings along the way. So i can only assume that it was a language barrier.
shogunmark said:
I havent seen any comments through this whole ordeal from Vhjc or PirateGhost, so i would assume they are still with us. As far as i know its just WildChild and BananaCakes that have decided to leave us. We do hope that they will reverse their decision and decide to come back.
yes, and Bananacakes has stated on a few occasions that his english isnt that great. I personally felt that it was pretty good, but there was definitely some misunderstandings along the way. So i can only assume that it was a language barrier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only Bananacakes and Wild Child were constantly updating their roms though... that's what I meant
I have been edited because i cant follow directions.
shogunmark said:
If i see anymore angry posts towards one another i will not hesitate to issue temporary/permanent bans (depending on severity).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So the mods are devs?!?
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA App
come at me bro said:
So the mods are devs?!?
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am the only mod involved with this. But to answer your question, no i am not currently a dev.
NIKKG said:
Everyone needs to just take it easy and not take things too serious. We should just stay focused on the prize, which is producing the best ROMs this phone has ever seen. All that arguing doesn’t get us closer to our goals, but hinders it. So Bananacakes and WC, just chill out and come back, your both good developers. After everyone is back to work and producing again, all this will be forgotten. Especially with ICS just around the corner, we'll need you even more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For real... finally, a voice of reason. I mean, common sense. Okay so everyone has something to be bitter about. But how will that get anyone anywhere?
Walking away from a problem is NEVER the solution. At least Pirate and vhjc are still here, or so it seems.
I have had chat's with both guys at on point or another & in jest I probably started this, or some of it anyways.
However, the way I see it is that Android is a Linux fork complete with GPL requirements & in reality it is virtually impossible to Kang anything that is linux or Android related, aside from user side code.
Development at this stage is in it's infancy for the Vivid & Raider due to the lack of sources as well as the lack of developer involvement.
Android is all in all an open source project created with the intent of giving end users more fredom & choices. It is also a fairly easy platform to learn & develop for & on.
Kernels built are based partly on code from Google & sometimes the oem as well. Modifying a Kernel is a fun & sometimes brings us positive changes that improve our devices. How about the addition of the Bravia Engine & XLoud? Cool, right? But nobody thanks Sony in their posts. The whole point of opensource projects & a GPL is that we are supposed to work together to improve devices for ourselves & for end-users. We are supposed to share & collaberate in an effort to streamline our builds, WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY.
Yes, it's nice to see your name & be recognized for accomplishments, but that should be secondary, if an issue at all, to development. Let's be honest, most everyone cooking roms is "kanging" (for lack of a more accurate word) code from device chef's that have worked devices released before the Vivid, like the Sensation. We are all definitely "kanging' code from LG, Sony, HTC & Samsung.
Many of the Chef's/Cook's or whatever you want to call them, wouldn't even have an idea without work spanning back over a decade when XDA was truly a developer community forum. Look at all the work BuzzLightYear & itsme did & published for the betterment of the community. It's a different time now & instead of power users & developers being the owners of smartphones, now everyone that has a mobile pretty much has a "Smartphone".
Many of you don't even know that I cook roms. I don't publish them though, aside from a close friend or two, because of all this contention about what belongs to whom. Frankly, unless it is a program, more than likely the work has been done or modified somewhere in some forum on this planet. Unless you are truly rewriting a driver or an application, most everything else is part of the GPL & considered opensource.
I like Bananacakes rom. I like the graphics because the higher contrast makes it easier for me to read. I also like WildChild, bot the stability of his roms & him personally. We talk & razz each other at least once a week. I take both of their roms & mesh then into something I use for a daily driver. I use a modded version of the Rezound Incredikernel for my kernel & scripts from a dozen people. I will never publish it. I don't want to hear how I stole this or that, half of which was really stollen from the oem developer anyway, so I refuse to put myself thru that.
Most threads recognize people that have contributed & so many people contribute & there are so many parts to a rom that it's easy to overlook something that a member may have worked on. This crap all started around the time of the TouchPro & TouchPro 2. People stopped sharing source & started trying to lock down their roms & development stiffled. Sure, there were some cooks that made PRETTY roms, but there was no innovation, not truly.
Either this is a community working on an open source project, and like a family we all share from each others experiences & knowledge, or this is the death of development communities & everything might as well be an iPhone since everyone thinks their contributions are their intellectual property.
For this to remain a true development community, we need to share our work in the spirit of open source. This collaboration has to be a two way street though. If you borrow from someones work, then when you find way of improving upon it, you need to publish it, to share it.
And for criminies sake, knock off the 10 year old "I'm taking my ball home" crap. Kiss & make up, shake hands, get a room...whatever...Just share & share ALIKE & lets get on with making the Vivid the best device.
To all non-developing members: Really, Android is easy to develop for. A ton of the work can be done in a good text editor. There are really goog resources available to help you setup a development environment & even help you learn & write a first simple application. I promise you, it is much less daunting & intimidating than many think. Wild Child is a self-taught developer whom is really not involved in development as a career. I have some professional programming experience, but it is very specific (LANWorks & BACNet). I am not a mobile developer by trade. I'd hate to see either of these guys leave the community, but if they do then step up & learn to help yourself. Start with something you want to change, read learn & then it's trial & error time. Cooking a rom is the easy part. Making it truly unique & perform better than stock is also easy on many levels. It can be as simple making a few changes in text files. We need that. We also need better drivers, our devices are capable of 5Ghz wireless-n connectivity, but the drivers & implementation from HTC prevent it. Better media native compatibility is also another big thing that is possible. Again, this is a community, or supposed to be at least, so get involved. Make an effort.
shogunmark said:
I havent seen any comments through this whole ordeal from Vhjc or PirateGhost, so i would assume they are still with us. As far as i know its just WildChild and BananaCakes that have decided to leave us. We do hope that they will reverse their decision and decide to come back.
yes, and Bananacakes has stated on a few occasions that his english isnt that great. I personally felt that it was pretty good, but there was definitely some misunderstandings along the way. So i can only assume that it was a language barrier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would have never noticed that. Now that I think about it Some things do stick out. Well Thank you. I just saw where hes from. That being said its a different culture between the two. So in each others eyes they were right, and the other wrong.
So I hope neither of them are the stubborn type and decide to work things out.
GSLEON3 nailed it!!!!!! Yes, yes, yes and yes.
GSLEON3 said:
I have had chat's with both guys at on point or another & in jest I probably started this, or some of it anyways.
However, the way I see it is that Android is a Linux fork complete with GPL requirements & in reality it is virtually impossible to Kang anything that is linux or Android related, aside from user side code.
Development at this stage is in it's infancy for the Vivid & Raider due to the lack of sources as well as the lack of developer involvement.
Android is all in all an open source project created with the intent of giving end users more fredom & choices. It is also a fairly easy platform to learn & develop for & on.
Kernels built are based partly on code from Google & sometimes the oem as well. Modifying a Kernel is a fun & sometimes brings us positive changes that improve our devices. How about the addition of the Bravia Engine & XLoud? Cool, right? But nobody thanks Sony in their posts. The whole point of opensource projects & a GPL is that we are supposed to work together to improve devices for ourselves & for end-users. We are supposed to share & collaberate in an effort to streamline our builds, WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY.
Yes, it's nice to see your name & be recognized for accomplishments, but that should be secondary, if an issue at all, to development. Let's be honest, most everyone cooking roms is "kanging" (for lack of a more accurate word) code from device chef's that have worked devices released before the Vivid, like the Sensation. We are all definitely "kanging' code from LG, Sony, HTC & Samsung.
Many of the Chef's/Cook's or whatever you want to call them, wouldn't even have an idea without work spanning back over a decade when XDA was truly a developer community forum. Look at all the work BuzzLightYear & itsme did & published for the betterment of the community. It's a different time now & instead of power users & developers being the owners of smartphones, now everyone that has a mobile pretty much has a "Smartphone".
Many of you don't even know that I cook roms. I don't publish them though, aside from a close friend or two, because of all this contention about what belongs to whom. Frankly, unless it is a program, more than likely the work has been done or modified somewhere in some forum on this planet. Unless you are truly rewriting a driver or an application, most everything else is part of the GPL & considered opensource.
I like Bananacakes rom. I like the graphics because the higher contrast makes it easier for me to read. I also like WildChild, bot the stability of his roms & him personally. We talk & razz each other at least once a week. I take both of their roms & mesh then into something I use for a daily driver. I use a modded version of the Rezound Incredikernel for my kernel & scripts from a dozen people. I will never publish it. I don't want to hear how I stole this or that, half of which was really stollen from the oem developer anyway, so I refuse to put myself thru that.
Most threads recognize people that have contributed & so many people contribute & there are so many parts to a rom that it's easy to overlook something that a member may have worked on. This crap all started around the time of the TouchPro & TouchPro 2. People stopped sharing source & started trying to lock down their roms & development stiffled. Sure, there were some cooks that made PRETTY roms, but there was no innovation, not truly.
Either this is a community working on an open source project, and like a family we all share from each others experiences & knowledge, or this is the death of development communities & everything might as well be an iPhone since everyone thinks their contributions are their intellectual property.
For this to remain a true development community, we need to share our work in the spirit of open source. This collaboration has to be a two way street though. If you borrow from someones work, then when you find way of improving upon it, you need to publish it, to share it.
And for criminies sake, knock off the 10 year old "I'm taking my ball home" crap. Kiss & make up, shake hands, get a room...whatever...Just share & share ALIKE & lets get on with making the Vivid the best device.
To all non-developing members: Really, Android is easy to develop for. A ton of the work can be done in a good text editor. There are really goog resources available to help you setup a development environment & even help you learn & write a first simple application. I promise you, it is much less daunting & intimidating than many think. Wild Child is a self-taught developer whom is really not involved in development as a career. I have some professional programming experience, but it is very specific (LANWorks & BACNet). I am not a mobile developer by trade. I'd hate to see either of these guys leave the community, but if they do then step up & learn to help yourself. Start with something you want to change, read learn & then it's trial & error time. Cooking a rom is the easy part. Making it truly unique & perform better than stock is also easy on many levels. It can be as simple making a few changes in text files. We need that. We also need better drivers, our devices are capable of 5Ghz wireless-n connectivity, but the drivers & implementation from HTC prevent it. Better media native compatibility is also another big thing that is possible. Again, this is a community, or supposed to be at least, so get involved. Make an effort.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have decided to teach myself the trades of development on the android system. Need to put my AAS degree to the test
Sent from my HTC Vivid

[REQUIRED BY ALL] YOU ALL BETTER READ...NOW!!!

This is gonna be a book post, so grab a drink, sit down & READ THE WHOLE THING!
Okay, I was a happily retired moderator with little time for babysitting & hand holding, but after nearly two decades of being involved with mobile development from Palm to the device & OS that really started this (Blue Angel PPC2002/PPC2003/PPC2003SE) I will be damned if I am going to let ANYONE ruin the major development repository for what is arguably the best device HTC has made to date. Yes, it was also the worst marketed & whomever handled the marketing plan for the Holiday Series should be selling used cars (Not that there's anything wrong with that, they were just obviously out of their league with the Vivid), however I digress.
I cook roms, I tweak things & talk & have help fix issues for more chef's than I can count. I don't do public releases & I stopped doing custom builds for Senior Members a long time ago. I am here purely for the advancement of mobile development, to learn & to help those that truly take the time to learn.
First things first, this is a development thread. If you are not a developer (I'm not, not really) you must realize that we are working with Alpha's, Beta's & sometime code & data from completely different device manufacturers. This means that there is a certain amount of inherent risk envolved, ALWAYS. This is evidenced & acknowledged by every single person that DECIDED to ignore the warnings issued by HTC as well as the developers here & agreed to the terms when they unlocked their device. "Unlocking your device is DANGEROUS & may VOID your warranty."
I own several devices, as do the former Dev's of this sub-forum. The reason we all are, or were, here is because we all agreed that despite HTC's fumble with the device, it is a fresh design from the rubberized slabs & plastic toys we've seen lately & the device is truly a powerhouse when configured correctly. None of us have to develop, not for the public, and for those that do, I can tell you it's not for the money nor the fame. If it was for fame the folks that left wouldn't be working from blog space & small sites. Sure, there are always glory hounds, but the Developers in Vivid are about the pursuit of perfection, nothing more. Roms are not made by a single person, many have a hand in adding or modifying portions of a rom. This means that when you slam or disrespect a chef or rom, you are telling six or more people that you do not appreciate their work. There will always be difference of opinion, but when that occurs, I expect you to handle it like a man (or woman) & use the Personal Message system this site offers. Even in those cases, I demand no less than respect & civility when communicating & you all agreed to that when you registered here at XDA. Failure to do so CAN & WILL BE GROUNDS FOR A BAN OF APPROPRIATE LENGTH.
Now, I am not a new Mod & XDA has seen fit to call me back to active duty as a Global Moderator, not a forum moderator, & that alone should tell you how frelled the vivid section has become. I am not here to power trip, don't want to ban anyone & hate cleaning useless posts from threads. But I have agreed to do just that until we can all become a happy family
I am working on getting all the dev's back here that left as well as getting some support from some of the more populated forum threads. This will be more & more important as fragmentation goes away & Android becomes more unified. ICS is a step in that direction, Android 5.0 will almost be there completely.
You may not know it yet, but HTC knows they built a great device in the Holiday line & we have already seen ICS release roms for the US AT&T variant. They went & integrated beats & discussion is taking place about a possible Sense 4.0 version for the Holiday. Not a kanged version, but a true to goodness OEM complete with source code & all. While most other devices are still working with leaked versions & test betas, we have an honest to goodness Release version of ICS with some already even getting OTA updates as well. The Vivid is one of a handful of devices that can more than adequately run the same software versions as the newly unveiled One Series, only the Vivid doesn't look like a Sensation mated with a Flyer. I know most of the developers that left, some more than others & I am working on bringing them back to the XDA table. You see, when a developer leaves we get fragmentation. We also usually lose a lot of work from other rom team members, themers, coders, tweakers, hackers, kernel builders, etc...
It would be rather simple for a good Sensation developer to get us a great recovery, provide us with pointers on things they have found with getting ICS to run smoothly as they have been working with api 15 for longer than most Vivid dev's. Unfortunately, they see the Vivid forum as the red headed bastard stepchild of XDA & right now we are. Winter is over & never before have I seen so many developers fky away like a flock heading back north. They all left or are on the fence about leaving. That says something. It's not one high maintenance chef whining & leaving. It is a whole group of Dev's & the supporting members from all over the world leaving. That tells me something is broken, seriously broken & that you as Vivid forum participants have failed the developers & the community. We are broken & need to fix ourselves & learn to police ourselves to become whole again. Do you like stock roms? are you 100% satisfied with whomevers rom you are using? I hope the answer is yes, because unless we pull together & make changes you are gonna be stuck with what you have. Sure, more cooks will emerge. But every rom team member is exceptional at certain things & without them future roms will be lacking in certain areas.
At any rate I digress. Many of you know me. I am honest & fair. I am here, & XDA agreed, as a Hail Mary, to properly support the forum & to try a save the Vivid section from failing. The number one rule here from now on is: Be courteous, respectful & honorable; and if you can't do that....I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance & furious anger those who would attempt to poison our developers & destroy my forum.
THIS IS YOUR WARNING: I am an American, so Baseball is my countries pastime, right? Just like baseball I am immediately instituting a three strikes policy. Each strike will incur penalty on a progressive scale ending with me petitioning to permanently ban you if needed. And be advise that if you post useless or negative to development threads, expect them to be deleted. Just be smart & always take a minute to think things thru before posting & doing irreparable damage. Words are like currency, you can always save them & they'll be there later if needed, but let them burn a hole in your pocket & spend them to soon...You're broke & there's no getting them back.
Now I am stickying this thread & will be leaving it open for a short while. I am doing this to give you a chance to kindly ask the dev's that left to come back & where appropriate make amends or apologize for any personal attacks that were made publicly. If you wrote it where everyone could read it, you should have the fortitude to make it right publicly. If not, then I again refer you to the Personal Message utility provided to you by XDA.
Nicely written.
+1 on bringing back the Devs
Please come back This forum wouldn't be anywhere near as inventive and informative if we didn't have our devs.
Excellent post as well
Im glad to see you stepping in and trying to help the other mods get a handle on things.
I love our phone just like most of the other users here, and have been dissapointed with the state of our forum for the last few weeks. I know the dev who left are still interested in our device as they took their roms elsewhere. Maybe with these current event they will consider coming back. We can only hope, XDA has been a great repository of roms and the help we might need with them. Lets not fragment our resources anymore then it already is.
All I can say is WOW that was greatly written!!
You know what really sucks I have been a member for what i consider to be a long time, I have flashed 1000s of rom's on I don't how many phones and read probably millions of posts! This site is my addiction I read it every day. And over the last couple of months it has just gotten horrible, ridiculous and childish on both sides the noobs and the Dev's! Now DONT GET ME WRONG!! I love and admire everyone who develops, cooks and contributes to the forum. I admit I could never deal with all crap that some noobs and some not so noobs! It is not only this forum it seems to be wide spread even down to the scamming going on at the market place!!! It has honestly made me not want to come to XDA which really sucks.I have all ways looked at XDA as one of the best community's/families i have ever worked with. Just think about how many country's, languages,class,s of life white collar,blue collar and every where in between!!! Just like any family/community you have problems and you find way's to work through the hard times and it makes you stronger so I just plead to all the Developers to try to work whit us. Even if you just post your work and then just have a question and answer sec. and let the community answer the questions. Im just saying there has to be a solution!!
Okay I'm done Rambling!! Thank You to the Mods to for trying to hold it all together!! OK now i'm done!
Wow, it's good to hear something positive around here. You might this sections savoir.
WOW! Great post, thank you very much!
I think we ALL want to run the latest and greatest Android version on the best possible ROM ever on our beloved Holiday. Most are anxious about it and, at the same time, do not want to brick their expensive phones. This being said, this shouldn't be a motivation for ANYONE to bash on the developers.
Like a lot of people, I bought my HTC Raider knowing that, at that time, the development wasn't too far. I was glad to see dev's coming in the Raider/Vivid/Holiday/Velocity family. I was friggin' happy when I saw the first ROM available for my phone! I also flashed at my own risk, knowing I was maybe scarifying my $600 CAD phone.
I, as a relatively new comer, learned from it: do not ask questions that you can easily find answers for by searching the forum. While this is not the (only) reason why so many devs have left, I would like to apologize for my few n00b questions that I may have asked previously. I learned from it and will now properly search before asking.
PLEASE, let's put these few problems aside and let's be a big nice community once again!
I hope we'll see devs back here once again!
This is my first HTC since buying my HTC Dream back in the infancy of android and I was saddened to see how things have turned on this board.
For every Samsung and LG device I have owned there has always been a thriving community of people who have an understanding and work together. However none have ever had the same feeling when I owned an HTC and was part of the community that made the Dream(G1) what it is, an icon. I so wish to be apart of something like that again with this, arguably the best HTC device, as GSLEON3 put it and would love to make it the next big thing.
I understand if the Devs don't come back but I certainly hope they do. There is a lot of work for us to get done and we really need all the amazing talented individuals we can get.
I agree and its getting old visting 20 sites
Xda should be a place where devs can release there work and the community can help each other out not bark at the devs and chase them out, a place where everyone can contribute in one way or another
come at me bro said:
I agree and its getting old visting 20 sites
Xda should be a place where devs can release there work and the community can help each other out not bark at the devs and chase them out, a place where everyone can contribute in one way or another
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think That that should become our mission statement "a place where everyone can AND SHOULD contribute in one way or another"
This is nice,
well said GSLEON3, i'm happy to see this.
i've been around xda for a while and had my share of phones and not a single one wasn't modified in a way shape or form from xda so when i picked up a vivid 2 weeks ago, it was my first choice but i'm stuck with at&t for now and besides the inspire 4g it's the only other decent phone that fits my needs and wants and regardless of how heavy it is, it's worth it. I was so disappointed and sad, mainly so sad when i saw what was happening, and by tuesday night i was like this isn't gona work for me, i'm gona be stuck with the stock gb rom or stock ics which i can't stand, i just wanted a fully functioning runnymed port but i was disappointed that the bootloader can only be unlocked through htcdev which then voids my warranty while i didn't have that issue with all the previous phones so i never hesitated to root, flash recovery and the roms of my choice. titanium and nandroid backups were like my best non human friends lol. when all this started happening and pretty much everyone was gone, i was like this isn't gona work, saw a report in the portal for a sense port to the nexus s one for ics and one for gb that had almost everything working, so i figured let me see how much i can buy a nexus s for and found a really good deal so i bought it the next day and put my vivid up for sale, i havent sold it yet, and i've been coming around to see if anything has changed, and now that it has i might reconsider and keep it, sell the nexus s and hopefully things get rolling again and we can all have the vivid the way we want. so sorry for making this even longer than i anticipated but hopefully the devs will see this and do come back, and that we do get help from other devs and new ones, i mean having phones like the hd2, mytouch 4g inspire 4g, sensation, the forums on those are filled, even the nexus s i can't keep or find a rom that i like, there r just so many options left and right so i hope that the vivid will become like that soon and yeah i dunno call me crazy or something but like i said earlier, i would be very happy if bootloader can be unlocked without htcdev that is relockable with no trace and to have a fully working gb rom with sense 3.5 like the runnymed, i couldn't be happier with the phone like that. I know there is the holiraider and it looks pretty good but i just don't know if i'm ready to take the plunge for just 1 potential rom, so hope all goes well and things develop but this has so much potential so i think i'm gona hold on to the vivid for now and see this thing come back to normal and flourish
Thank you for the breath of fresh air of logic that has come back to this forum. Sadly, I have been hesitant to visit this forum because of all the drama that has occurred as of late about the development of a better rom for our devices.
As you said, there is a reason we all purchased this device over others and it's well clear that there needs to be more work done for it by those who have the skills to do so.
Well said, although this may have been posted a little to late.
I hope that the dev here does continue, but it is looking bleak!
thanks
Very nice write up / read, I'm new to XDA and android altogether. I think this a great device and the few ROMS I've flashed had little or no issues. The work the DEV's have put into these is incredible to say the least. I would love to see all this mess cleared and bring the Vivid development back on track to unleash the full potential that it really possesses.
..
Thank you for this post. I've been more of a xda lurker for the longest time (on other phone forums) and I was happy to be getting in on the sort of ground floor of development for the vivid.. I walked away for a month to take care of some life items and I came back hoping to see some big improvements, instead there is just a load of closed dev threads. It's sad to see that few people not acting civil put things where we are today.
I really hope you can help bring some sanity back to this sector and with that sanity maybe some of the devs will be back too.
superb article. thanks for the great post. something needed to be said!i would imagine that with 4,000,000+ users were gonna have trolls, so i hope the trolls migrate to your post
Thank You!
There is yet hope, Also as stated by the OP, We all did agree to treating people with respect. This is a huge community with all levels of users from Devs and folks that build awesome things to others just starting out with their 1st smartphone (Simple rule, think before you post). This device line could become great. Please let's all do what we can to help this along.
Cheers
BR
Excellent post, I appreciate the time you took to write it, I wish reading it were a requirement of joining the XDA site. I've been flashing roms since I had an HTC Touch Diamond. I confess to being a flashaholic and my worst fear is to lose access to XDA and it's excellent developers because of the rude and immature members that I see regularly. So many don't bother to read and feel they are entitled to the work that the devs do for free.
All I can say is this is awesome, nice to see someone taking the time to help the vivid dev section.
I so miss the help and work by Pirateghost and Wild Child, and whom ever else was contributing.
While i left for only 2 weeks to setup another phone to use, i still have my raider ready and free to help debug and test as needed. Please don't allow a few bad apples to ruin it for the rest of us.
And if I may, maybe we as xda members can share in the task of keeping the forum in check.
EX: see an inappropriate post, flag it for a moderator to address it.
As for GSLEON3, thanks for taking the time to address the forum. hats off to you.

Users and the OSI Layer 8 / help the people who're helping you

Hello xda,
I want to talk about all the fine users out there. They are the people who make our software alive by installing and using it. They are also the essence of every market out there by giving feedback and rating apps to make it easier for everyone to see good apps in a top list, but some of them are (yes, not all, there are also a lot of fine guys and girls out so, thank you!): the people who make me wonder if they should have a smartphone already!
I mean, I'm a developer for several years now, I'm into android developing for straight a year now and for the time I've seen so much c**p some users posted on apps which just aren't right. One time I've had a chat with a guy who had a problem with my app. Of course I helped him by looking into the source. After a couple of minutes I couldn't find any bugs so I've asked him which rom version he used. It turned out, that he was using his own crappy compiled version of gingerbread.
So instead of voting an app with one or two stars, leaving a no-brain-comment or behave like a teenage mutant monkey, you all should give the developer constructive feedback, like which rom do you use or which android version (especially in the root-tools category), so both sides of the ecosystem can take profit of it. At least use a working rom!
It seems like the audience should take a "how do I give proper feedback"-tutorial instead of a "how do I use this app?" - Introduction (but I guess that’s the problem with b2c software relationships. If you just make a little, single mistake, you'll get the bill multiple times for it).
This has to be said. I don't want to offend somebody but there are some people who aren't nice to developers as like the developers are to them.
So, respect the devs out there which are working in the spare time for you to develop nice applications and help 'em
Cheers!
I have to agree!
Thank you sir

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