Database Develop

Gadget Show Channel 5 UK - iphone v Touch Diamond

As above - Chl 5 8pm tonight

i doubt this will be usefull or give you the result you hope for.
I doubt they will even know, let alone try, about flashing and the massive advantages this gives. I doubt they will touch on the various 3rd party apps that really make this phone and instead, will focus on a standard "factory fit" which, lets face it, is a bit crap. Will they cover the fact that this phone is an exellent business tool (oh how i miss TV/VGA out ... )
I also doubt they will mention the Iphones failings, its 2.0 software disaster, its "push" (yeerrr right!) email or the fact people are having there entire contacts and calendars being wiped out in front of them or again that they STILL can't change batteries
I see them going for the Iphone.

Who knows, Germans have choosen Diamond as a best phone on the world with iPhone as a 2nd with quite big adventage. Who knows, maybe those people will make some big review and will compare those phones in every aspect.

nutcracker2 said:
Who knows, Germans have choosen Diamond as a best phone on the world with iPhone as a 2nd with quite big adventage. Who knows, maybe those people will make some big review and will compare those phones in every aspect.
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What do you mean "Germans"? Do you mean the entire population voted on it or a selected "Gadget Show" like TV program?

http://www.inside-handy.de/news/12140.html
1500 of german inside-handy.de users choosen Diamond as most desirable phone of the year. I was wrong, not the best, but most desirable

The Gadget Show IMO is only of use to morons - the sort who go to Currys etc and believe the 'salesmen' when they say they need a £80 monster hdmi cable. They never set things up properly and i'll guarantee they haven't flashed the roms etc. I know you shouldn't really need to but thats my point, gadget show is for people who don't know nothing!

nutcracker2 said:
http://www.inside-handy.de/news/12140.html
1500 of german inside-handy.de users choosen Diamond as most desirable phone of the year. I was wrong, not the best, but most desirable
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... but the poll was done in 12.06.2008 with the old iPhone and not with 3G!

nokmond said:
The Gadget Show IMO is only of use to morons - the sort who go to Currys etc and believe the 'salesmen' when they say they need a £80 monster hdmi cable. They never set things up properly and i'll guarantee they haven't flashed the roms etc. I know you shouldn't really need to but thats my point, gadget show is for people who don't know nothing!
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I watch the gadget show because some of it well put together and you can tell the producers/presenters do know what they are talking about even if they do have to dumb it down for a maintream tv audience somewhat.
As regards the flashing issue, I doubt they will go into it in detail but why should they? Most users don't know about it and if you did tell them they probably wouldnt want to be bothered with it anyway. Its a big time sink just for a setting up a mobile, which should really have been done by HTC in the first place.

Check out this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybaPS0NLwFQ
Most of the people they ask dont even realise about all the 3rd party apps or different roms,all they seem interested in is the way it looks.

owz206 said:
Check out this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybaPS0NLwFQ
Most of the people they ask dont even realise about all the 3rd party apps or different roms,all they seem interested in is the way it looks.
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Thanks for the link, i hadn't realised before how crappy that show is, are they trying to be Top Gear or something! They're doing camera shots of the pavement that are so quick the phones blurred! And if the presenter emphasised his words anymore he'd explode.
In that video, that kind of test is always going to be about looks, if you even try to use the phone you wont know how because youve only had 5 seconds with it so all they can compare is looks, size, weight etc and go on what the presenters say.

Two things immediately spring to mind on watching the clip - Apple has spent a fortune on promoting the iphone, so that anyone who watches TV will have an idea how it works - if the touch screen from the Diamond had been given similar video tutorials on primetime TV, no doubt a lot of people would find the interface just as user friendly.
The other factor is the Apple effect - people feel that Apple has a brand value akin to Richard Branson's woolly jumpers - all cuddly and vaguely environmental/hippy chic. I prefer to be apart from the crowds, not queueing to buy on the basis of marketing hype.

Well I'm definitely sending my Diamond back. The one they had on the gadget show had a hardware keyboard and a Nokia label. Mine has neither.

ericsson68 said:
Well I'm definitely sending my Diamond back. The one they had on the gadget show had a hardware keyboard and a Nokia label. Mine has neither.
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LOL yeah i know i watched it too..... check out the youtube link for the web tv review (previous posts)
The review was crap anyway, people like the look of the iphone, but thats it.
None of the functionality of the Diamond was really talked about, very poor review. (if you could even call it that !)

nokmond said:
The Gadget Show IMO is only of use to morons - the sort who go to Currys etc and believe the 'salesmen' when they say they need a £80 monster hdmi cable. They never set things up properly and i'll guarantee they haven't flashed the roms etc. I know you shouldn't really need to but thats my point, gadget show is for people who don't know nothing!
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I disagree the Gadget Show is for people who don not know anything - I watch it over the internet and I find this a useful program indeed. But I do disagree with some of the shows findings on best products...

nubbin said:
Two things immediately spring to mind on watching the clip - Apple has spent a fortune on promoting the iphone, so that anyone who watches TV will have an idea how it works - if the touch screen from the Diamond had been given similar video tutorials on primetime TV, no doubt a lot of people would find the interface just as user friendly.
The other factor is the Apple effect - people feel that Apple has a brand value akin to Richard Branson's woolly jumpers - all cuddly and vaguely environmental/hippy chic. I prefer to be apart from the crowds, not queueing to buy on the basis of marketing hype.
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"marketing hype" something Apple Computers are very good at G

Of the bat:
-The show looks cheesy as ****, something apple users tend to like!
-The 60 year old host, talking bout technology? Not good! (no harm intended to any 60 year old member in the forum)
And Ill always do this on any thread that contains the words FruityPhone:
FruitPhone SUCKS!!!!
Remeber, second best they are.

the show is usually quite good, but after watching this they did not give the htc a proper review. I mean come on if you put a iphone in front of everyone they know what it is straight away! Seems like the Apple advertising is really sucessful.
I dont mind if our Diamond isnt as big as iphone to be honest.
After all do you want everyone to have the same phone as you! I call it a small prestige club and I am honored to have be in it.

Sergio PC said:
Of the bat:
-The show looks cheesy as ****, something apple users tend to like!
-The 60 year old host, talking bout technology? Not good! (no harm intended to any 60 year old member in the forum)
And Ill always do this on any thread that contains the words FruityPhone:
FruitPhone SUCKS!!!!
Remeber, second best they are.
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Click to collapse
Could you possibly be any more offensive with your outdated and ageist remark?
He's not even 60.
Idiot.

kidd78 said:
the show is usually quite good, but after watching this they did not give the htc a proper review. ......
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Did you watch the same show as me? I only saw the IPhone versus a Nokia....
I suppose you are right in a sense, they didn't give the HTC a proper review ... as they didnt have one!

I stopped watching the gadget show a few years ago because i get the feeling that they really dont know what they are talking about, the reveiws and tests that they do are completley stupid and of course they are given more money to say good things about certain products.
There was an episode i flicked onto the other month, and they had picked out a bunch of HD TV's an said they were gonna get the best experts in the country to give them a thouogh testing to see which one was the best! So they took them to the tech guys (pc worlds attempt at making ppl think that their getting good advice!) who stood about 2 foot away from the screens an said that none of them were particaully good and then said the most expencive one wa no good because it was a Plasma set and could suffer from screen burn!
In short the show is biased to whoever pays them the most money to give the best review!!!1!!!

iphone killer app

I'm looking for the one (or better more than 1) app that will kick all the surrounding iphone addicts and will get them to see that the kaiser is not failing even with graphics and interface. I think that a game that takes the graphics to the the limit will do the job - any suggestions?

You don't need any software to do that; it already does.
iPhone users can't figure out how to use these types of phones, you need to be intelligent too, and, well, Apple users really aren't that intelligent...

The Iphone is sooo cute.......It's amazing how impressed people get with what are nothing but a bunch of shortcuts on the phone, You can't do everything you can on WM

If you are looking to get justification from me (or someone else) about the $$ you spent on the kaiser (vs. iphone), then you obviously missed the point.
p.s. you probably should have just asked what the best software was--instead of "why is my 1 year old phone better than the iphone"
p.p.s. maybe you should have bought an iphone. you might be one of the people Squeaky369 was talking about.
...of course, it sounds like he's trying to justify the kaiser also.
Here's my $0.02:
I used to only own sony ericsson phones. until I bought an Audiovox SMT5600. cool phone, but it just needed a "insert newest feature here," to be perfect. Then the next HTC phone came out, and, viola! I bought that one. fast forward through 6 HTC phones in as ~4 years.
I like them because they have great support by the folks here at xda-developers. THAT's enough for me. Customer support, only provided by people who actually care, the customer.
to sum it all up, the kaiser is only a good phone because of this website.

Squeaky369 said:
You don't need any software to do that; it already does.
iPhone users can't figure out how to use these types of phones, you need to be intelligent too, and, well, Apple users really aren't that intelligent...
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Well, that's the the hardest point: make the non intelligent understand that they are such.

pingels said:
If you are looking to get justification from me (or someone else) about the $$ you spent on the kaiser (vs. iphone), then you obviously missed the point.
p.s. you probably should have just asked what the best software was--instead of "why is my 1 year old phone better than the iphone"
p.p.s. maybe you should have bought an iphone. you might be one of the people Squeaky369 was talking about.
...of course, it sounds like he's trying to justify the kaiser also.
Here's my $0.02:
I used to only own sony ericsson phones. until I bought an Audiovox SMT5600. cool phone, but it just needed a "insert newest feature here," to be perfect. Then the next HTC phone came out, and, viola! I bought that one. fast forward through 6 HTC phones in as ~4 years.
I like them because they have great support by the folks here at xda-developers. THAT's enough for me. Customer support, only provided by people who actually care, the customer.
to sum it all up, the kaiser is only a good phone because of this website.
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Click to collapse
You totally missed me: If I could get iphone for $100 less than what i have payed for my kaiser (and maybe I could - i just didnt look for) I would never got an apple,
I am more than proud to have my kaiser and I bought it after reading this website for long time and understanding that powerful machine with power web support is what I need. for me the apple is like a toy for spoiled users, but I do find myself many times trying to justify my choice.

udi1 said:
I'm looking for the one (or better more than 1) app that will kick all the surrounding iphone addicts and will get them to see that the kaiser is not failing even with graphics and interface. I think that a game that takes the graphics to the the limit will do the job - any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anywho, Skyfire. Nuff said. Load it up enabled HSDPA on your phone and head to anysite playing video. I watched that new Chris Rock special on my phone today at work, had the entire crew laughing.

when sanchez get his program out, then you can show them your phone can do everything the iphone does. just showing how customizable it is should do the trick

c'mon man...you already got them with copy and paste!

udi1 said:
I'm looking for the one (or better more than 1) app that will kick all the surrounding iphone addicts and will get them to see that the kaiser is not failing even with graphics and interface. I think that a game that takes the graphics to the the limit will do the job - any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dude, you don't need any special application. just copy and paste and they'll run off crying like little girls

Just show them a cursory list of WM apps/games available for the TyTN II and that'll scare them sh*tless!!!! Nevermind the Java stuff too.
Just show them how customisable the TyTN II is also,
and and and and and...the list is almost endles!!!
I have a thread here somewhere where I had a device shoot-out with a colleague a few months back. He has (had now hehehehehe) an Apple iPhoney and I have my TyTN II....he ran for the hills dude!!!!!!!!

Show them Manila 2D
I wowed an iPhone user when I showed them my tilt with M2D running. What's up with youtube on iPhone looking like crap? LOL

kaiser VS. iphone
hey.
no dought. iphone is like a simple video game, and kaiser is like a small computer with all the posebilities-just think of one...
in every compresion i read, the kaiser took the iphone by far.
be proud to have a kaiser. a fantastic machine indeed. let the childrens play with their iphones

Are you expecting somebody to say "there was a guy with an iphone, and i pulled out my kaiser and showed him my latest program. his girlfriend left him for me and gave me a lot of money. then i asked him about copying and pasting and he grabbed his groin because my metaphorical kick actually caused him pain."

Funny, cbass.
No, but there is a joy to all of this. It's not about who's swinging the bigger stick. It's just that some iPhone owners are so ridiculous about their phones (while most of the iPhone owners I know already have either broken the screen or just traded them in.)
A buddy of mine lives 3000 miles away. I called him up to let him know I was visiting. Knowing he's a gadget geek, I asked if he had the new 3G iPhone. He did. He asked if I had it. I said "No, I bought the Tilt." He laughed and told me about three coworkers who bought Tilts and hated them. How ugly the screens were. How impractical. I kept my mouth shut knowing I had just put TouchFlo 2d on the Tilt and wanted to wait for him to see it in person. Now I have a buddy who is pissed he bought an iPhone.
P.S. I don't know where you guys bought your Kaisers. I bought mine from AT&T (refurbished, not that you could tell) for $150.

A horse that had just purchased an iPhone walked into a bar...bartender asked, "Why the long face?"
Thank you, thank you...
Just go to an iPhone owner, put your tilt up to their face, and ask, "Can your fancy phone DO THIS!!!" as you slide out the keyboard to the transformers sound they will have no other choice but to rip their garment apart and gnash their teeth in repentance...

This is the funniest thread ever!

deymayor said:
This is the funniest thread ever!
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iphone killer thread... should be stickied!!

No offense, but there is no comparison
I'm not saying iPhone is better, but that there really is no comparison.
The point of the iPhone is to be slick, simple, and easy to use. According to the vast user community, it meets those objectives. My VP buddy has the iPhone and so do most of the execs at our company now. The reason they like it is that it just "does what they want", and nothing more.
I tell the 1st buddy I mentioned about all the cool things my phone does, and he says "I don't need that". End of argument. I ask if this or that on the iPhone is configurable. He doesn't want to configure it.
When asked about the user interface, he says "They nailed it", meaning it is perfect. He doesn't need a slide-out keyboard, because the on-screen keyboard works just fine for him. No... He probably can't type as fast as I can on the Tilt, but he says "I don't need to type fast".
So there it is: The iPhone community (and it is growing) are guys that are not stupid.. their world just does not revolve around their phone as ours does. It isn't a toy to make better -- it is a tool.
An iPhone killer is a stripped down, simple, rudimentary version of the software I have now. It is so stripped down that it probably works a bit more reliably and a bit more spritely in responding to commands. It also has one more feature -- consistency of user interface. It can't "dump to the same old e-mail interface" when you just came off the slick screen. It still has to zoom and flip and do all that. iFonz was close, but the version I used wasn't very fast on the Kaiser. And to me (I'm one of you -- make no mistake) it didn't do all I wanted! (so I have to disqualify myself on that point... )
Someone should make that slick simple phone -- oh, they do --- but we wouldn't like it...
So it is about market. In my opinion, Apple knows how to mass market to people -- not engineers -- and HTC and MS know how to market to engineers. Unfortunately, people outnumber engineers by a considerable margin.

esnyder58 said:
I'm not saying iPhone is better, but that there really is no comparison.
The point of the iPhone is to be slick, simple, and easy to use. According to the vast user community, it meets those objectives. My VP buddy has the iPhone and so do most of the execs at our company now. The reason they like it is that it just "does what they want", and nothing more.
I tell the 1st buddy I mentioned about all the cool things my phone does, and he says "I don't need that". End of argument. I ask if this or that on the iPhone is configurable. He doesn't want to configure it.
When asked about the user interface, he says "They nailed it", meaning it is perfect. He doesn't need a slide-out keyboard, because the on-screen keyboard works just fine for him. No... He probably can't type as fast as I can on the Tilt, but he says "I don't need to type fast".
So there it is: The iPhone community (and it is growing) are guys that are not stupid.. their world just does not revolve around their phone as ours does. It isn't a toy to make better -- it is a tool.
An iPhone killer is a stripped down, simple, rudimentary version of the software I have now. It is so stripped down that it probably works a bit more reliably and a bit more spritely in responding to commands. It also has one more feature -- consistency of user interface. It can't "dump to the same old e-mail interface" when you just came off the slick screen. It still has to zoom and flip and do all that. iFonz was close, but the version I used wasn't very fast on the Kaiser. And to me (I'm one of you -- make no mistake) it didn't do all I wanted! (so I have to disqualify myself on that point... )
Someone should make that slick simple phone -- oh, they do --- but we wouldn't like it...
So it is about market. In my opinion, Apple knows how to mass market to people -- not engineers -- and HTC and MS know how to market to engineers. Unfortunately, people outnumber engineers by a considerable margin.
Click to expand...
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Actually alot of them do revolve around there phones..... they are materialistic about it alot of times. if apple can put their name on it they will buy it.
I would have to say it is a opinion though. just over a year ago people were amazed when i had a phone with a touch screen. now they don't hardly make phones without them. People are used to having a phone that did only the basic functions and anything more than that is over whelming to them to have much more than simple.
Reguardless it really is an inteligence thing. people are intimidated by carrying around a computer in their pocket and yet i can tell them they are amazed everytme they see my phone after i have flashed a new rom "its like a having a new phone everytime" I've actually talked about 10 different people into gettng this phone in the last 6 months reguardsless that its "death" is schedulled at the end of this year. I'm maitaing a fleet of kaisers and training windows mobile users. They all were confused when they got them but about all you have to say is it runs just like windows and all the sudden it gets easier and easier.......
One thing i can say is noone i have ever talked to after i show them around to all the things they can do and how to use them have ever gone, "damn i shouldn't have gotten this phone." they all go off to flaunt it to their iphone friends.

Automatic start for you car app???

Devs and droid lovers alike, I have just been informed that the iphone has an automatic. Start for your car app. I was doing one of my regular "android is taking oover the world" text messages to all my friends and someone responded with that... now of course I went to into the android os and the fact that its an open os and all that but needless to say, I was rocked. This will be the iphones trump if we don't do something fast. So dev, the android community is depending on you guys to study the application in question and then crush it! I know you guys can do it! Charge just as much as they do and put it on the market.. everyone will buy!

Long live ANDROID!

im not sure if its the same one but if you look in the best buy flyer it shows the viper alarm system can be bought on the iphone for $500 instead of buying the piece for your keys

I'm just gonna go ahead and say it.
This is a stupid ****ing idea.
The Android OS isn't as clean or as slick as the Iphone or as responsive, and who cares.
I saw the commercial showcasing this, and it looks good, ON THE IPHONE.

Icebergxx said:
I'm just gonna go ahead and say it.
This is a stupid ****ing idea.
The Android OS isn't as clean or as slick as the Iphone or as responsive, and who cares.
I saw the commercial showcasing this, and it looks good, ON THE IPHONE.
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Haha I agree. Who gives a **** what the iPhone can do. We may not all like
the iPhone, but since when is this a competition?

First off you have to have something in your car for your phone to talk with. I don't plan on installing a Blue tooth gizmo so I can start my car when my car keys work just fine. Oh I do have remote start on my keys so it kinda defeats the need for an iPhone or Android version. Heck I don't even use the remote start half the time unless its really really cold outside.
As for the competition between iPhone and Android. I made my decision the day I bought my G1.

I wanna use my g1's poor accelerometer to steer my car!

Icebergxx said:
I wanna use my g1's poor accelerometer to steer my car!
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Yeah...and use the barcode scanner to scan the QR code on the cop's ticket so I don't need the paper copy. The ticket I got for mowing down the guy standing on the sidewalk, starting his car with his iPhone. Applesauce all over my metal-alloy valve stem caps.

wow
For all those who say when did this become a competition I ask this question.... when you bought your g1 did you do any research at all or did you just get the coolest looking new phone you could buy, or did you let some t-mobile rep who barely know what they're talking about sucker you into buying the newest phone so they could get a cut. For the somewhat smart people out there who do research before they make a large investment or sign 2 years of a portion of their income away, when you bought the G1 you (in some way,shape, or form) said I'm smarter that everyone who has the iphone. You said "I don't care about at&t's superior network, I don't care about the iphone's superior hardware, the android OS is the best thing since slice bread and it trumps any of those other things. At the point you engaged in this competition. This is why cyanogen made this amazing ROM and one of his screen shots was of him talking to a buddy on gtalk telling him something like"the iphone will never be able do what we can do."..... now that we made that clear... if your a real dev out there and you know what I'm talking about I just want to let you know I appreciate you, even if nobody else does, I do! I mean that! Keep showing the world why the Android (open) OS is the best!

mimic1011 said:
For all those who say when did this become a competition I ask this question.... when you bought your g1 did you do any research at all or did you just get the coolest looking new phone you could buy, or did you let some t-mobile rep who barely know what they're talking about sucker you into buying the newest phone so they could get a cut. For the somewhat smart people out there who do research before they make a large investment or sign 2 years of a portion of their income away, when you bought the G1 you (in some way,shape, or form) said I'm smarter that everyone who has the iphone. You said "I don't care about at&t's superior network, I don't care about the iphone's superior hardware, the android OS is the best thing since slice bread and it trumps any of those other things. At the point you engaged in this competition. This is why cyanogen made this amazing ROM and one of his screen shots was of him talking to a buddy on gtalk telling him something like"the iphone will never be able do what we can do."..... now that we made that clear... if your a real dev out there and you know what I'm talking about I just want to let you know I appreciate you, even if nobody else does, I do! I mean that! Keep showing the world why the Android (open) OS is the best!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought our trump was the source code, let's see them come back at you with that. At&t's superior network?! All of my friends iPhones drop calls every day!

The point is that its a competition...not what the trump is...i just want to provoke anyone who up for the comp to step up!

I personally would never want to use my phone for this.. it provides too many possibilities of disaster. If you have a Bluetooth device in your car running someone will hack it sooner or later.

geekingitup2005 said:
I personally would never want to use my phone for this.. it provides too many possibilities of disaster. If you have a Bluetooth device in your car running someone will hack it sooner or later.
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totally it will be like the ability to crack WEP haha

This does NOT run off bluetooth for one. There is essentially another cellular phone in the vehicle that receives a handshake through the SMS system.
This is OLD OLD OLD OLD news and has been done before
http://www.sentinelcaralarms.com/
Go put that system in and you can control it from your Cell, your house, your aunt's brother's cousin's boyfriend's sister.
Seeing as that is run off DTMF, I am sure someone could toss an app together with a macro to do certain functions automatically through a GUI

overground said:
Yeah...and use the barcode scanner to scan the QR code on the cop's ticket so I don't need the paper copy. The ticket I got for mowing down the guy standing on the sidewalk, starting his car with his iPhone. Applesauce all over my metal-alloy valve stem caps.
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Ahahahahaha nice!
XP
Could you imagine
My g1 auto starting my 91 Toyota AWD 5 speed? hahahaha

mimic1011 said:
For all those who say when did this become a competition I ask this question.... when you bought your g1 did you do any research at all or did you just get the coolest looking new phone you could buy, or did you let some t-mobile rep who barely know what they're talking about sucker you into buying the newest phone so they could get a cut. For the somewhat smart people out there who do research before they make a large investment or sign 2 years of a portion of their income away, when you bought the G1 you (in some way,shape, or form) said I'm smarter that everyone who has the iphone. You said "I don't care about at&t's superior network, I don't care about the iphone's superior hardware, the android OS is the best thing since slice bread and it trumps any of those other things. At the point you engaged in this competition. This is why cyanogen made this amazing ROM and one of his screen shots was of him talking to a buddy on gtalk telling him something like"the iphone will never be able do what we can do."..... now that we made that clear... if your a real dev out there and you know what I'm talking about I just want to let you know I appreciate you, even if nobody else does, I do! I mean that! Keep showing the world why the Android (open) OS is the best!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to be off topic but this post is slightly ridiculous. Yes, I knew what I was getting into when I bought a G1. And I would say my decision was also slightly based on the fact that I was already in a contract with T-Mobile. BUT the reason I chose android was not because it was BETTER than the iPhone. In fact, I never even compared it to the iPhone. But that's kind of irrelevant.
The point I want to make is that devs aren't cooking ROMs to compete with the iPhone. In fact, I would go as far as to say that there's not a single dev on this forum that is trying to compete with iPhone. Sure, maybe some of them think android is superior in some way, and maybe they think android will triumph in the smartphone market eventually, but they aren't android devs because they want to be iPhone killers

Is STEVE BALLMER literally RETARDED? MS to charge carriers for WM7. Yet Android=Free?

Sometimes 2 pictures can tell a story better than 1000 words. What is wrong with one of these 2 pictures?
DEATH WISH / Link
vs.
ON-A-ROLL / Link
Is the MS strategy so secret and mind boggling that I am simply not smart enough to comprehend its brilliance? Or is there a wattage problem in MS's Board Room?
.
.

I can live with it adding $20 to the cost of a device. There are also things like TCO or similar that apply to a manufacturer and in turn to a customer.

The answer is yes. He is most definitely retarded.
Fact is that wimo could NEVER have been considered successful. Mostly because it is a piece of trash. Charging more [than nothing] for it is suicide -- especially when you compare it to the in-every-conceivable-way superior ANDROID, which is free.
I actually quite like their strategy of shooting themselves in the head. It means that they will die off faster.

Alright, let's do a recap:
-Android is 100% free, WinMo is not
-They are about to charge CARRIERS, so say goodbye to unlocked phones
-It's Windows Mobile, so say goodbye to Google services. If you like Bing, Windows Live and the rest, good for you, but most of us don't.
He is to Microsoft what Bush was to the US. He is arrogant, generally misoriented and strengthen the opinion the public has about Microsoft.

N1c0_ds said:
Alright, let's do a recap:He is to Microsoft what Bush was to the US. He is arrogant, generally misoriented and strengthen the opinion the public has about Microsoft.
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Wow, this is quite apt, and yet I have never made the connection before. Now that you've made it for me, there are thousands of 1:1 analogies that flow like a rain-flooded river out of my head.
His "Mission Accomplished" was his laughing off the iphone. That was the beginning of the end of staying relevant. Now, 3-4 years later, he's introducing his own iphone, but with one very clever and extremely significant difference:
He's calling his Windows Phone.

Ballmer has been blowing it for years! That's why XDA thrives fixing his OS and why Adroid is on the fast track.

I had 3 WinMo phones before my Hero and I thought it was amazing, I was really reluctant to switch to Android, and after using Android for 1 day I'm pretty sure I'll never use WinMo again. If someone paid me $100 to use WinMo instead of Android, I wouldn't; so asking people to pay THEM to use WinMo is just stupid.

It really starts to come down to the essence of this site
rpimps said:
I had 3 WinMo phones before my Hero and I thought it was amazing, I was really reluctant to switch to Android, and after using Android for 1 day I'm pretty sure I'll never use WinMo again. If someone paid me $100 to use WinMo instead of Android, I wouldn't; so asking people to pay THEM to use WinMo is just stupid.
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This is my exact experience. It isn't a punitive view. It has nothing to do with loyalty/disloyalty, or "they're late to delivering their new OS, so I will punish them by not using it". This has everything to do with how good the combination of HTC + Android is. There is not one thing I long for, there is nothing at all that I am missing using my HTC Hero running Android. HTC's SenseUI on top of Android (which i had never run before, nor even tried before, deciding I wanted to buy the Hero) works so beautifully right out of the box, and the Android market is filled with apps & utilities that make the device's functionality even greater.
I spent over 3 years here, a whole year before even registering, just to help make my T-Mobile MDA device useful to me.
I am saying this: Before my first touchscreen device, I had a very reliable Samsung clamshell device... Being very careful, while in the car I could hit a speed dial and get someone on the phone, activate speakerphone etc., and when the call was done, bullet-proof step to end the cal;. I could feel it in my fingers.
Entering the world of touchscreens, of which I am such a huge champion I have created an awards series in support of, I quickly discovered, to my immediate dismay, "I can't even make a phone call without having this screen up to my face"... But worse, put it in my pocket and for a year my friends are all angry "why do you keep calling me?". Try to get the phone OUT of my pocket to answer a call before it goes to voicemail, 9 times out of ten a touchscreen area gets pushed and call is lost.
Then the tiny tiny keyboard you use reading glasses to see so you can poke that stylus precisely... I was wondering, "what have I traded away for a screen that can browse the web?"
Again, 4 years ago, thankfully one T-mobile store salesperson in San Francisco told me about this site, kind of in hushed tones while inside the store as employee. When I first came here, like with many folks, it was an intimidating jungle, with caution signs everywhere: "READ THIS FIRST" "DON'T POST WITHOUT SEARCHING". I would finally come to what I thought would be straight-forward set of instructions: "A Newbie's Guide to Upgrading your T-Mobile MDA", only to encounter in the very first sentence "Make sure your phone ist HARD-SPL'd or you'll brick it"... "HARD SPL? What does THAT mean?" It took me well over 6 months, back then, to stop-and-go, stop-and-go-back, just then searching for "what is HARD SPL?" only to come to yet another thread saying stuff like "To make sure your device is capable of HARD SPL, it must be all ROMS after 63i850db247, not before or you'll brick your phone"... Read 100's of pages of thread and not one post saying "Yes, your MDA is fine for Hard-SPL". On and on it went til finally, after being slapped down a few times for asking questions (they would link me back to the very threads I already had plowed through), I got some help to get me started.
And THAT day began the pursuit toward USEFULNESS OF USING MY PHONE.
Admit it, more than 3/4 of this site has always been about compensating for what may have been a very fine underlying OS, but a terrible, terrible unfriendly user experience. I upgraded to the T-Mobile Wing before the iPhone came out and was finally at the spot where XDA-devs had created 1000 workarounds for those tiny menus you have to hold up to your face to see... They stripped out the inefficiencies of various WM software, and suddenly I could multi-task keeping Google Maps aways open, with contacts open, notes, music player, ans various utilities. Finally, for me, after 3 years I had a USEABLE PHONE that matched the promise of the ads and marketing.
In almost all cases, XDA-devs were generally NOT exploiting some fabulously smart feature of WindowsMobile, and making it better. They were taking poorly-thought out functionality and terrible UI, and adapting it to become useful. And when the iphone hit, then the paradigm of finger-based navigation changed everything, and XDA-devs created UIs that replicated the easier to "hit" target zones of the iphone interface. Lots of 3rd party shells, etc... But almost ALL of this was to correct deficiencies due to handicaps of what was core Windows Mobile. Still, to this day, people like Supbro, developer of iDialer, and his branch of iContact, have been correcting the stupidity of tiny text for adding a new contact.
I'm just saying: Here I am 4 years later, having had amazing functionality delivered to me thanks to great chefs here, great app & utility developers, and, let's all face it, GREAT ROMS from HTC which were broken apart to extract and enable yet MORE compensating UI fixes (like TouchFlo), all to FIX and mask over the terrible user experience of Windows Mobile.
THUS, when I got my Hero, and began to use it, and from DAY 1, it just works, and it's easy and intuitive, and with all these great widgets and real-time display updates, I realized even more: JEEZ! Finally an OS that is smarter out the gate. Yet Windows STILL had a year to come in and show the marketplace it had learned a thing or two, after the G1 introduced the world to Android. And all they could burp out, with all their resources and skilled engineers, was windows 6.5? And they had to even quickly abandon their explicit HONEYCOMB Ui after it was immediately, and rightfully ridiculed as
"THIS is your new thinking, Microsoft? Your honeycomb staggered alignment, and your start button at bottom center. THIS IS IT??"
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So Ballmer 6-9 months ago "gets religion" and admits (in that infamous private meeting widely reported throughout cellphone land) his whole company should have focused on WM7, and not gone down the 6.5 path, because they were already so behind their new-found competitors... And there was a HOPE, a spark, an ember left, that said, OKAY, MS has HUGE resources and money... so if they tackle this well, they could well turn everything around. But that delivery date for WM 7 was FEBRUARY 2010. Meanwhile many companies moved forward: Google, Motorola, HTC and we saw October, November, December just POUND the marketplace with success after success of Android products, coupled with HTC and Motorola keeping the competitive spirit alive which drives innovation.
JANUARY 2010, and Google comes out with NEXUS ONE --- full of problems, including Google's total fumble with the whole concept of "dealing with customers"... and HTC has had their Snapdragon-processor phone lines well in development as well... And now they've got phones in the marketplace right now much better than the Nexus One, with a new optical trackball, and other usability advances.
And so here we are in February 2010, the very time at which WM 7 was set to be IN THE MARKETPLACE wowing us with what we all hoped would be something re-invented, reviving their tattered brand. And now it's September 2010? Who here believes they'll make THAT date? But great, a little tease at a Mobile World Congress revives some hope that it will all be worth it.
That's 7 months from now! We will surely see in that time a whole new iteration of iPhone OS software. And who knows what from Android?
So I come not to bash Ballmer, but to question his brain-function. With all these deficits working against MS's comeback, he has the audacity to play chess with the marketplace and proclaim there will be add-on carrier fees for his company's new WM7 OS phones? I really meant it literally. Does this man have a screw loose?
Sorry for the BOOK length post, but for anyone reading it, tell me where I'm wrong?
XDA-devs SAVED THEIR ASSES for the past 3 years -- by enabling their crippled OS to do tricks that satisfied customer demand. And now that I bought the Hero -- because I liked what I saw -- and have used it for 4 months, I just don't see the point in wondering "what will WM 7 really be like?" -- because once I made that leap, I'm no longer dealing with 3/4 of the efforts of this great site devoted to COMPENSATION for what WM lacked. Maybe there are people with great sentimental ties to WM -- because naturally after working one's asses off to build off of it, and create great useful software products, features and utilities, there would be a lot of cognitive dissonance at play when contemplating where to continue your development efforts going forward.
And there IS sentimentalism that drives quite a bit of WM enthusiasm. ANd that's fine. But here I am 4 months into using my HERO, and I have yet to even feel the need to come here and root my phone and make it EVEN BETTER. I will, for sure... But I haven't needed to. It's all frosting or gravy for something that inherently works AS SHIPPED.
So that's my rationale. rpimps' prior post just flushed this essay out of me... yet what he's said in 2 sentences summarizes everything I just typed.
Choice is good. And for everyone who wants to stick with WM, I am sure there will be plenty of fruits to bare. But meanwhile I *use* my phone and depend on it right now, not 7 months from now. I'm not looking back.

galaxys said:
That's why XDA thrives fixing his OS.
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And that really is the summary statement about the genesis of and incredible growth of this great site.

If they want to sell WM they need to make it exactly the same as Android, and make a long press on the Home button bring up the usual WM task list to switch between running apps. I'd buy that.

I'm starting to get pretty sick of all this love for Android and how anything Android will blow WP7 out of the water. All this love for a dumbed-down smartphone. None of us have seen WP7, except for a few screenshots here and there and in my opinion it looks great. MS had to make some changes if they wanted to stay relevant, because what we forget is that the "power-users" make up a very small percentage of the buyers market. However, I really do hope that MS does not forget about us all together. All I know is that come December, I'll be rocking the new WP7 and not an Android. Theres my 2 cents.

Irishpride said:
I'm starting to get pretty sick of all this love for Android and how anything Android will blow WP7 out of the water. All this love for a dumbed-down smartphone. None of us have seen WP7, except for a few screenshots here and there and in my opinion it looks great. MS had to make some changes if they wanted to stay relevant, because what we forget is that the "power-users" make up a very small percentage of the buyers market. However, I really do hope that MS does not forget about us all together. All I know is that come December, I'll be rocking the new WP7 and not an Android. Theres my 2 cents.
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This is an actual question, not an argument - what are some things WM can do that Android can't? I use my phone for business functionality and I don't consider myself a member of the "general public" and switching to Android after 3 WM phones, I haven't found a single thing (aside from maybe quicker switching between running apps) WM did that Android doesn't.

Steve Balmber retarded?
Hmmmmmm
Limited vocabulary
Edit: WTF!?

He's bat**** effing insane! Thanks for sharing

You guys are jumping the gun on this. At least wait and see how things go before you saying game over for WM and jump ship.
Do you guys ***** that the desktop or laptop or netbook you just purchased cost you $25-50 more because it is running Windows7 compared to Ubuntu or another Linux build? No way!
So why are you going to moan about a measily ~$10 fee on your phone for running WM7. Heck you can probably run a dual boot setup on your WM7 phone to run both Windows and Android to experience the best of both worlds...just like some of us have done with our computers.

To all people thinking you're entitled to everything:

You're not entitled to anything. You obviously don't remember the dumbphone era and I have seen a lot of members act like they take all the cool things Windows, IoS, and Android can do for granted. It's a phone and it can text and call. A few years ago, they introduced the ability to REALLY browse the web with phones instead of that blocky, crappy, ugly built in browsers to dumbphones. Now, you get mad if your phone doesn't load something soon enough or if it takes more than 30 seconds to boot up. Just because it's a smart phone doesn't mean it has to do anything. I can take an LG rumor, call that a smart phone. I can take my HTC Hero, break the screen, pull out the MoBo and say it's a smart phone. It's just that since we have all these neat things our phones can do, we act like it's the standard and that android, iOS, and Wp7 owes us. That's not even close to the case. I spent 2 months with a LG Rumor which is known as a dumbphone and I learned that perhaps we should realize what our phones can do are us advancing as a society as a whole rather than "Your phone loads videos sooner than mine!?!!" *throws phone out the window* It's a peice of technology, wait 10 minutes, there will be a better one right around the corner. We advance far too quickly for this kind of petty, childish, bratty behavior. Basically, grow up before you ruin the phone-modding world as a whole by acting like you are 10.

So... what's new? What changed to make this issue worth debating all over again?

Well said. I think this applies to a lot a lot of things in life and all too often i'm seeing kids with massive entitlement issues around various forums.
Conscript the lot of them into military service so that they can get some perspective and learn what real hardship feels like!

DirkGently1 said:
Well said. I think this applies to a lot a lot of things in life and all too often i'm seeing kids with massive entitlement issues around various forums.
Conscript the lot of them into military service so that they can get some perspective and learn what real hardship feels like!
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Amen brother
-Figured i needed a signature for my phone. This is it......

Wow..thank you
Sent from my T959 using XDA App

I personally can say that the time with the lg rumor showed me how much phones have evolved and it made me appreciate all the stuff my phone can do.
Sent from the unevolved evo.

Entitlement is a disease.
Most of the younger generations suffer from it.
I only put so much worth into my phone because it triples as my personal computer and music player. I'm a minimalist at heart, so I don't own anything else very technological (not including my TV).
I remember when I bought my Palm Pre. iPhone killer. It was amazing. Then the Moto Droid came out and I thought, oh gee, that's sweet. I stuck with the Pre until June, and bought the Nexus S. Thinking I was now at the pinnacle of mobile technology... only to realize two weeks later 249243 newer, better devices are on their way.

I don't feel I'm entitled to anything....
And I think that smartphones are taking away our lives rather than enhancing them. We txt, email, foursquare, take pictures but do the one thing that they were originally intended for to begin with....
COMMUNICATE.
When I get home now - I have to put the phone on a charger and try and forget about it so I can spend quality time with my wife and son rather then farting around with the phone.

avgjoegeek said:
I don't feel I'm entitled to anything....
And I think that smartphones are taking away our lives rather than enhancing them. We txt, email, foursquare, take pictures but do the one thing that they were originally intended for to begin with....
COMMUNICATE.
When I get home now - I have to put the phone on a charger and try and forget about it so I can spend quality time with my wife and son rather then farting around with the phone.
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Sorry, i'm too busy fart-arsing around with my phone to talk to anybody...
I do agree with the above. If technology is supposed to make it easier to communicate, why are people growing increasingly isolated from each other?

DirkGently1 said:
Well said. I think this applies to a lot a lot of things in life and all too often i'm seeing kids with massive entitlement issues around various forums.
Conscript the lot of them into military service so that they can get some perspective and learn what real hardship feels like!
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I have a nephew that needs to be the very first one to go...lol
He's 23 years old and makes demands on what people do for him.

DirkGently1 said:
Sorry, i'm too busy fart-arsing around with my phone to talk to anybody...
I do agree with the above. If technology is supposed to make it easier to communicate, why are people growing increasingly isolated from each other?
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Sorry can you repeat that please?
I was tweeting.......
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....

conantroutman said:
Sorry can you repeat that please?
I was tweeting.......
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
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He mentioned something silly about flatulence that I didn't catch.

The problem is not entitlement per se - it's feeling entitled to the wrong things. We all are entitled to respect from other people. But we aren't entitled to things or money or positions in society.