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what are your thoughts?
p/s If you are interested in forex, you can go to this website for forex guides and EUR/USD views.
www.TheGeekKnows.com
The articles are simple to read and understand.
I am not a pesimistic person, but at least on my country, the economic recesion is far away from see the light...
Hard times correspond to working harder!
the economy is getting worse and worse every day in every country i think we should go to space and make new countries now
I'm proof that the economy is in the dumps.
At home enjoying time with my little ones...
HotJobbing, Craiglistin', Careerbuilding, Indeeding, sleeping...
Aaaahhhh....this is the life...
2 months and counting...
No rush.
Simply stated, the economy is getting worse.
Creditors are becoming more stringent as are people with expendable capital.
We're in for the long haul.
Worse. Read up.
Oh look!!! I'm ranting!!!
leobox1 said:
what are your thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry...but what do you mean by "One year on?" This situation we're all in has been brewing since 2006...it's just the lame terminology of what a recession is (a widespread decline in the GDP and employment and trade lasting from six months to a year). I worked with the building trade (provided tools and equipment) and we could see the slow decline in building around the last quarter in 2006. This was a sign that there was something going on...and of course the 5 year mark on ARM loans for homes was just a nail in the economic coffin. People being given homes that banks knew they could not afford--lying--err..."Underwriting" assets to inflate a person's assets so they could get a bigger loan. So...here we are with
-people living in apartments,
-working hard to get a condo or a townhouse for $120K in 2000,
-smiling in 2002 at the inflated equity their $425K home currently has,
-Using said equity to purchase a $700K house at ARM and paying only $2K a month
-Realizing that the 5 years is up and that their loan has now skyrocketed to $5K a month
-Not being able to afford such a payment, $300K in equity down the drain...
-back in an apartment.
Very sad, but I'm sure you know of at least on of these situations...
For those that are having trouble paying their home (at no fault of their own) such as loss of income, disability, hardship...Google up HAM loan modification...
might help...
leobox1 said:
what are your thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately, the picture is not as rosey as the government & wallstreet want U to beleave. We have a long way to go for paying down the deposite and creating good jobs!
I am a pesimistic person
but I say it may have gotten a bit better
but the damage don with companys going under
and people being fired have not peeked yet nor is it likely
to this year
In India, i think we have not even seen as such as being seen by Americans.
Lots of Indian shifting back to India from America. But nonetheless we have seen some decline in sales and jobs markets, but not as much as in abroad.
guess on the ground, things are still tough..
then its scary to see the markets value going up these days again as it may
be a bubble again...
when you hit rock bottom there is only up to go
think it got some raising to do before it could be a bubble
because now most is worth more then you can get for it
Still stuck in the rut no job not prospects no future "yeah i'm making a joke" but infact i have seen no change in the current climate with work being the bigest was made redundant and the field i work in is a bismal "in my location" and has been since the day i had to leave........
Fix Up........... Look Sharpe........
Things can only get better
+1!!
That´s the positive thinking!!
Cheers for that!
oil is now at $70+
way above the low of $30+
Unemployment index is still very high, and many companies are still a bit hesitant about hiring. However, Dow Jones is moving up (though it might just be a slight bit of higher confidence), the housing market is slowly recovering (though bad mortgages are still being collected, and "big banks" are still writing them off), hiring is looking somewhat positive for the first time in a while and consumer confidence is starting to pick up again (retail is looking good again, meaning people are spending more).
Nobody's really sure whether this is the light at the end of the tunnel, but it might be a little break from the storm.
I think many factors are behind the share rally. The cash for clunkers program is one. The Chinese government's forcing its bank to lend is another. Then, there is also the issue of financial institution given the leeway to value the toxic assets as anyting they want once again which mask the problems. Add to that the massive money printing by the US government, and some of those money are now propping up the US share market.
Bank CEO's are doing anything in their power (including cooking their books) to justify paying themselves obscene bonuses once again.
When the Chinese government forced the State controlled banks to lend, there is no actual demand by businesses or individuals to borrow it. After all the export market is shrinking rapidly. But since the order from the top must be followed, the banks have to bribe the borrowers to accept the loan. These loans ended up in risky properties, shares, and commodity futures bets and gambles. We already see how the Shanghai A share plunged 20% within a few days recently when the Chinese goverment announced that it is "finetuning" its lending policy. The Chinese has yet to learn to spell bubbles but I think it is definitely forming and that will in turn send a shockwave throughout the world.
Unemployment is still worsening, not geting better. The loan defaults in US is now a more serious problem in the primed mortgage area, even surpassing that in the subprime mortage area. The banks are once again packaging extremely risky assets and try to market them to unsuspecting investors all over again.
According to some reports, the insiders are throwing out their own share at the ratio of 8:1 (for every share they buy, they're selling 8), while the fools are being sucked in once again.
Unfortunately, retail investors will never learn. Memory is short. The reason is we're all driven by greed. Many are investing purely with a herd's mentality. Once again, they're not happy with a small trading profit and try to hold it longer for larger gain. Once again, they may find out that when the market head for the exit again, they can't sell it fast enough as the big guys who have everything computerised.
There is so much spin going around in the market, with so many experts telling us that the economy has recovered. They won't tell you about 77 (edit: Just read from Bloomberg that it is now 84 in the year 2009) US banks have already collapsed this year. According to a very famous analyst, hundreds more are heading that way. They manipulate the unemployment figures to make it look less worst than it actually is. They are trying to encourage private investor to buy up those lousy banks with worthless assets.
I think the world is now characterised by the Chinese doing all the hardwork for the West to enjoy, and their money are still with the west in the form of investments that they are stuck with. This was the great imbalance that, unless corrected, will continue to worsen the problem of the world. This imbalance is unsustainable.
The "stimulus" is no stimulus that resume the heatbeat when removed. It is more like a crutch, which remove, the patient collapses once again.
The world needs reform. The imbalance needs to be addressed. The Chinese/Japanese/Indian must start consuming more and save less. The West must start consuming less and save more. There is also progressively more imbalance in the world in terms of pay. Just look at what the greedy CEOs are getting compared to the ordinary workers. As a result, the purchasing power of the masses, hence consumption power in the economy, will suffer.
Just my 2 cents.
newsuser, nice read
S&P500 is now above 1000
I think economy will recover at least a little bit in the next year. Of course recovering from what happened is hard and takes several years but I am quite positive that it will go up again, at least because everyone tightened their belts a little bit. I think that was kind of an important lesson learned for our society. Not everything works out the way we want forever.
s&p500 is now around 1060 .. rather fast do u folks think?
***EDIT:
Turned out most of the folks who responded to this thread were trolls who didn't read the OP anyways, so I've deleted it. If you want to see the original message, it was quoted many, many times (bummer I didn't add any photos). Since my entire point was to try to calm nerves and direct anger away from XDA, I'm deleting my OP. As of now, I'm giving this thread to the trolls. Enjoy.
Ineffective
Relatively good idea but ineffective. Reason? Google don't/won't give a damn anyway. They simply don't care and buying from another store won't make the slightest bit of difference.
What will make a difference is: Noise. And lots of it.
The only thing I think will work is if everyone who is irritated by the fact that their pre-orders are going to arrive AFTER retail stores stock and sell this device starts getting VERY noisy about it on Google+, facebook, anywhere where there is a community. Google+ would be ideal - there's already noise on there about this farce.
So it is ridiculous that a company can so blatantly alienate it's pre-order (and therefore most likely loyal and fervent) customers who would most likely evangelise about Google, it's services and products. It's the very definition of dumb and the sad truth is that they genuinely don't give a damn. They don't care at all.
I'm very tempted to simply cancel my order because if they don't care enough to organise things so that pre-order customers get their orders first then thank you very much but see you later. It's not a premium tablet and yet, I very much have a case of sour grapes going on here as I'm sure others here can relate too. It doesn't bode well for the ego in me to see that some others have ordered on other websites AND had their devices DELIVERED before Google themselves can even get their ass into gear and organise delivery for their loyal pre-order customer. I have to say - pre-ordering this product at such an early stage is/was genuinely an act of faith in that lots of us who did so didn't have all that much info to go on as to whether this product was any good. It seems that Google, like virtually EVERY other company out there simply doesn't believe or operate with the belief that treating customers well is good business sense - and why should they. They get by just fine without our tablet purchases from them thank you very much. I've invested a lot of time in Google's products and services. I'm a self-confessed, labelled "geek" and believe me - this has me pissed off enough to move to other services, and as the elder-geek in my circle of friends and family, I'd take them with me slowly but surely. Sour grapes indeed.
So: A: Google simply don't care
B: Make some noise!
alsheron said:
Relatively good idea but ineffective. Reason? Google don't/won't give a damn anyway. They simply don't care and buying from another store won't make the slightest bit of difference.
What will make a difference is: Noise. And lots of it.
The only thing I think will work is if everyone who is irritated by the fact that their pre-orders are going to arrive AFTER retail stores stock and sell this device starts getting VERY noisy about it on Google+, facebook, anywhere where there is a community. Google+ would be ideal - there's already noise on there about this farce.
So it is ridiculous that a company can so blatantly alienate it's pre-order (and therefore most likely loyal and fervent) customers who would most likely evangelise about Google, it's services and products. It's the very definition of dumb and the sad truth is that they genuinely don't give a damn. They don't care at all.
I'm very tempted to simply cancel my order because if they don't care enough to organise things so that pre-order customers get their orders first then thank you very much but see you later. It's not a premium tablet and yet, I very much have a case of sour grapes going on here as I'm sure others here can relate too. It doesn't bode well for the ego in me to see that some others have ordered on other websites AND had their devices DELIVERED before Google themselves can even get their ass into gear and organise delivery for their loyal pre-order customer. I have to say - pre-ordering this product at such an early stage is/was genuinely an act of faith in that lots of us who did so didn't have all that much info to go on as to whether this product was any good. It seems that Google, like virtually EVERY other company out there simply doesn't believe or operate with the belief that treating customers well is good business sense - and why should they. They get by just fine without our tablet purchases from them thank you very much. I've invested a lot of time in Google's products and services. I'm a self-confessed, labelled "geek" and believe me - this has me pissed off enough to move to other services, and as the elder-geek in my circle of friends and family, I'd take them with me slowly but surely. Sour grapes indeed.
So: A: Google simply don't care
B: Make some noise!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Might I suggest reading the whole message before you start typing a reply next time?
..
noble effort, but i really dont think even the slew of pissed off people on here would make a dent.
plus, those other app stores suck.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a bit pissed about the whole shipping thing... but this is the first time google had ever pissed me off and I'm a long timer user.
A few days isn't going to make that big of a difference.
Except that we do get the best warranty coverage since we bought from the Play Store. Google is going to handle our warranty stuff instead of Asus, they will ship a new one out before as soon as we say something is wrong. And pay the shipping for our broken tablet to be shipped to them.
And while this might be slightly annoying, Google is and awesome company that I use every single day.
If you want to really protest do the following:
Step 1: Switch to HotMail.
Step 2: Change your Search Engine to Bing or Yahoo.
Step 3: Sell your Android Smart Phone and Tablet to buy an iPhone, have a ton of fun loading your awesome custom Rom's onto it.
agreed, while i am mad stores have them first, let's all take a deep breathe and relax here. I got my shipping emal saturday morning so i will have my device on Tuesday, i am happy and it and looking forward to my tasty treat!
What fiasco? Google started shipping when they said they would.
Get over yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b7mwTK564o&feature=player_detailpage#t=88s
I've decided to be positive and think that it's a blessing in disguise...perhaps the early adopters will sort out issues for us so that we don't have to....
My life for Aiur
The delay isn't what bothers me. What has annoyed me is their handling of cancelling the order. It hadn't even been shipped and they were refusing to give a refund or stop the shipment. Ridiculous.
slack04 said:
The most effective protests are the ones that require minimal effort. Occupy would have been effective if everyone who agreed with the ideology could afford to spend a few weeks camping in a park. The Tea Party would have been effective if everyone who agreed could afford... um... high school? You get my point.
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That Tea Party line made me completely lol! Hilarious.
slack04 said:
Might I suggest reading the whole message before you start typing a reply next time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Might I suggest a less condescending attitude. There is nothing in my message that indicates that I didn't read your initial post.
Morning! Still aint got ****. I preordered 7/2. Got charged on 7/13 though.
I think those "kids", yes i said it, have never dealt with a mass distribution like this on a grand scale. They're geeks, what do they really know about the production line. All it would've took for those geniuses to make a ****ing priority list and ship preorders first, then ship to retailers, instead of giving them stock and say, "hey, don't sell it yet". How hard is that?
Its simple yet so hard for one person to realize that over there? Im with the OP. Where's the loyalty???
Sent from my SGH-T959
I SO AGREE with what your saying in op post. except we here on xda is a minority compared to all the android tablet users . There are not really enough of us to make a stand with the whole no buy from market thing. Nor do i think its fair. Google is really setup to sell or distribute hardware.Asus has been a mess for the past years and getting worse. I have a asus netbook that has a issue with the camera. The repair facility is 4 miles from my house. I had to mail the thing to them using UPS. THEN WAIT for them to repair it mail it to there shipping facility in chicago. 5 hours away and then ship it to me.. TRUE STORY.
SO with that all said this is a Android tablet (Kinda a TOY) .we will all get thru this launch shipping mess .We will be happy before you know it.. Lets just hope that asus has not messed up the build quality we would expect from google.
Good luck alll
You must live on youtube... look around ...
mnotme said:
What fiasco? Google started shipping when they said they would.
Get over yourself.
... there are plenty of people who pre-ordered, and haven't heard "squat" about shipping or order completion.
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Click to collapse
I don't think it's fair to punish a mistake, as long as they acknowledge the mistake and apologize. I don't really believe in revenge. Google has been good as a company and doesn't warrant punishment in the form of boycotting the apps from their store in my opinion. It sucks though and really Hope that they straighten this out with an apology of some sort. Regardless, i don't think I'd preorder from Google again unless i have confidence that they'll learn from this fiasco.
My life for Aiur
Refuse shipment. Buy from someone who isn't Google or wait for the next hot thing. With all the screen issues and other QA issues, it's just waiting to receive your broken tablet and mail it back to them anyway. Refuse delivery, ship it back on their dime and buy it from a store where you can check the unit before you leave. Screw Google, screw their poor customer service and screw their Play Store.
I was tempted to cancel before but if you really wanted to stop your google from processing, refusing shipment, restocking fee, you can simply freeze ur cc or req a new card and new #. Why is that so difficult? U can also tell ur cc company its fraud, and they won't allow it to go through. BofA called me and I approved the charge.
Do it! Wake up
Sent from my SGH-T959
Also to be fair, it's not entirely Google's fault. If everyone did a told, this wouldn't have happened. There are more than one factor than Google messed up. And I'm not going to say "screw Google"when they brought us Android!
My life for Aiur
Why do we have to endure weeks of waiting for the release of a new Samsung device when it has been announced? All those people at the unpacked event waving the Note 4 and Edge around on stage or within the experience stands make me jealous but also make me angry.
I never see why the phones/devices cannot be on the shelves within a week of an announcement for contract free purchases. I understand there might be negotiations with carriers but why stop those with the cash in their hands?
I also would love to know who decides on which country gets a certain device and when.
Samsung is particularly bad at this. They drag their heels with pricing, release dates and availability. Surely this can be all in place prior to their events.
It's not wrong, you're right!
Apple does very well
I know. How long does it take to mole the circuit board, etc?
Its potential for cash cow. People say Oct 5th for T-mobile. Thats 4 weeks too long.
This is one thing Apple actually does very well. Release date generally follows announcement by less than 2 weeks. Pre-orders start just a few days after the announcement.
It is very annoying. I wish they'd just wait to announce until they're closer to release. Who cares if it leaks during production? Samsung isn't as bad as LG tho, they are terrible.
This article is another reason why the wait is irritating. http://www.gsmarena.com/nvidia_files_a_patent_lawsuit_against_samsung_and_qualcomm-news-9564.php
Samsung is terrible at this. Apple has almost always released within earshot knowing the hypetrain is still there. By the time Note 4 arrives iPhone6 will be on shelves. Noone outside the geekworld is hyped about a Note 4. Even casuals know a new and bigger iPhone are coming. After the S5 dissaponting sales you'd think Samsung would pull out all stops.
Shame, they could be taking advantage of the earlier announcement over apple but they're going to just let apple rake in the earlier pre orders.
for one, it's pretty obvious they need time to produce hundreds of thousands of them first., on top of that, each carrier needs time to receive the units and to do their own testing and get samsung to load things on to them, firmware,modems,etc..
surely if they were available right after announced that would mean the device was already in productions many weeks prior and shipped/stocked at all retailers before hand.. this wouldn't make sense..
this is just standard on all electronic and if you ever bought any other piece of electronic in the past, you would have known this is normal practice to announce and then begin shipping out to retailers.
zergslayer69 said:
Shame, they could be taking advantage of the earlier announcement over apple but they're going to just let apple rake in the earlier pre orders.
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Click to collapse
preorders are already open on the sprint website and have been for a couple days http://www.sprint.com/landings/samsung_note4/index.html?ECID=vanity:galaxynote4
blame the carrier if yours isn't available for preorder yet.
tft said:
for one, it's pretty obvious they need time to produce hundreds of thousands of them first., on top of that, each carrier needs time to receive the units and to do their own testing and get samsung to load things on to them, firmware,modems,etc..
surely if they were available right after announced that would mean the device was already in productions many weeks prior and shipped/stocked at all retailers before hand.. this wouldn't make sense..
this is just standard on all electronic and if you ever bought any other piece of electronic in the past, you would have known this is normal practice to announce and then begin shipping out to retailers.
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Click to collapse
Well I already stated that I understood why there was a delay for carrier testing but I am talking about those who wish to buy outright. And if Apple and HTC can get their stock out shortly after announcements then why can't Samsung? Saying this is normal practice does not make it acceptable.
The devices shown at the launch were not prototypes, the production process has already begun and could have been stepped up prior to the launch.
Also, it still does not answer the question on pricing, release dates and country availability (for carrier free devices) these things need to be finalised before launch or very shortly after. In my opinion it's all just a tactic to build up some sort of hype
tft said:
blame the carrier if yours isn't available for preorder yet.
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Click to collapse
Preorder is not the same thing. I only see registration for email alert. Same as T-mobile.
I find it strange that Cellphone carriers do not even concentrate in advertizing for the release of the Note 4.
This is why its nice not having carriers mess and install a bunch of bloat. I don't think carriers mess around with iPhones and install their software on it, so less time wasted on things you don't need or care about. Just get the product out and sell it.
Anyways, just poor planning really, a month is a long time in the tech world and consumer electronic hype wears off fairly fast when something else new and shiny comes out in between then.
apprentice said:
Saying this is normal practice does not make it acceptable.
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Click to collapse
People love hyperbole I guess. If it is 'unacceptable' to you then buy an iPhone or HTC product.
Samsung can release its phone any dang time they feel like it - that's their business. If you don't like it, you can not buy it - that's your business.
JasonJoel said:
People love hyperbole I guess. If it is 'unacceptable' to you then buy an iPhone or HTC product.
Samsung can release its phone any dang time they feel like it - that's their business. If you don't like it, you can not buy it - that's your business.
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Click to collapse
Well duh.. Thanks for explaining that, I feel so enlightened now.
My point of this post is for debate as to why it happens. We the consumers are entitled to complain. I am looking for logical answers not "If you don't like it buy something else" it's not bringing much to the table.
Thats why i am getting the Iphone 6 over the Note 4, it'll be available sooner and i need a high end phone bad. Good thing is ill be able to sell the iphone 6 at a great price and pick up the note 4 when its out.
apprentice said:
Well duh.. Thanks for explaining that, I feel so enlightened now.
My point of this post is for debate as to why it happens. We the consumers are entitled to complain. I am looking for logical answers not "If you don't like it buy something else" it's not bringing much to the table.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no answer other than that is how samsung chooses to do it.
Could they hold the announcement closer to the physical release? Yes, of course they could. They just prefer to do it this way, for whatever marketing reason.
If the marketing people thought it was strategic to announce closer to physical release, they would. But clearly they don't.
If Samsung "should" copy something apple does, its their method of announcing and SHIPPING a product very quickly post launch. That is their only major issue. Why allow other OEM's to get product out the door and lose sales and yes they do lose sales and now that apple is going big and bigger on their phones next week with a launch before the Note 4 hits stores that is a big deal and some would be Note 4 buyers will get a 5.5" iphone instead, (dumb move, but it's their choice).
I fully agree with the OP and carriers are very likely the issue. Negotiations would likely have been done already, in the US anyways its likely more about last minute bloatware and who has a "bigger" tower than anything else.
I blame Verizon, for everything lol.
Apple has more control over the carriers.
Apple has more control over the carriers and the supply chain, that is why their rollouts are quicker.
iPhone 6 on the 19th
I thought this thread would be exploding with comments about how Apple can do it in less than 2 weeks.
Anything over 30 days is crazy. The battery life on my Note 2 fading away, I've been eligible for an upgrade for months.
Now that I know the specifics of the Note 4 it has given my a chance to look at other phones S5, G3, M8 or wait for Nexus X.
The longer I wait the less likely that I'll make an 'impulse buy' I'm still excited about the Note 4 but I'm weighting the cost vs features.
What's up with the pre order pages on Samsung.com and Sprint.com? Did I actually pretty order or was it just an email notification? I didn't even receive an email confirmation.
10 years ago HTC was a great company! Then after they reached great success, they started with range of dumb decisions. Today, nobody cares about HTC. Not sending phones any longer to developers, who are big part of this success story, is an arrogant and dumb OnePlus decision. In a long term, this will cost them way, way more, then what they'll save not shipping phones to developers. I hope I'm wrong.
Yesterday somebody said that those 20 smartphones they "giveaway" for developers is about 0,006% of total sales(3.000.000 so far) of the 6T so far. It's not. It's about 0,0006% of theyr sold phones.
For sure if it's true, I'll stop buying OP.
I doubt them stopping giving a few devices away is gonna harm them at all, Sure some devs will move to other brands but still OnePlus is shipping the sources fast and keeping the price cheaper than other devices, If all devs abandon them and the prices increase with more stupid decisions maybe the hype will die off.
Still their sales are increasing year on year so I doubt they'll flop like HTC did
guaranteed, this wont affect OnePlus's financial growth ONE BIT..
their success partnering with TMobile/Verizon, will boost their sales, and , I'm sure they couldn't care less about the 100 or the 1000 or even the 5000 people on XDA who wont buy their phones any more..
I think the price is the most appealing part of their devices. They could only fail if that changes, which I don't see. They will always undercut the Samsung's and Apples of the world.
yep, features/value for the buck, they are the current kings of that...that could change if they get too cocky/greedy, but if not, their growth will continue until someone comes out and knocks them out..
Not being root friendly was not the death of HTC. HTC would release 10 phones a year that were all the same, and then had weird advertising. Remember that pale-skinned red head that would say random things (I think it was for the Evo 3D)? Creepy. The Downey Jr ad campaign was entertaining at best, but mostly just weird. Then 3 years of the "ultra pixel" cameras when the entire market far surpassed HTC in the camera game. Plus, Samsung really stepped up their game, and Galaxy became a household name. Nexus phones came out, and became the go-to for the rom community. HTC became intertwined with Sprint, when everyone was leaving Sprint. WiMax? LOL
Now, not to say that OnePlus can't fail, but as long as they continue to make quality phones at great prices, they should continue to do well for quite some time. And with the love they have shown with software updates, it shows they stand behind their phones. If they stop becoming the value proposition, it will be easy for someone else to steal their market share.
tokuzumi said:
Not being root friendly was not the death of HTC. HTC would release 10 phones a year that were all the same, and then had weird advertising. Remember that pale-skinned red head that would say random things (I think it was for the Evo 3D)? Creepy. The Downey Jr ad campaign was entertaining at best, but mostly just weird. Then 3 years of the "ultra pixel" cameras when the entire market far surpassed HTC in the camera game. Plus, Samsung really stepped up their game, and Galaxy became a household name. Nexus phones came out, and became the go-to for the rom community. HTC became intertwined with Sprint, when everyone was leaving Sprint. WiMax? LOL
Now, not to say that OnePlus can't fail, but as long as they continue to make quality phones at great prices, they should continue to do well for quite some time. And with the love they have shown with software updates, it shows they stand behind their phones. If they stop becoming the value proposition, it will be easy for someone else to steal their market share.
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Click to collapse
Well said :good:
They already start to be trash. Sending so much devices to YouTuber and stop sending few devices to developer is just a "why".
No 3.5mm anymore and already at 550€ (I can get s9+ for that price and for 600€ a Note 9).
The camera is still ~S7 and no dual speaker, no QI... I hope they will end like HTC.
OnePlus will restart seeding program per latest update. Anyway, no need to cut the program just to make it better.
Oneplus 6T is still a good choice for its value position. But agree, they put more focus on the Youtubers than developers, who can give them useful support and tech suggestion.
Not sure which way, but its not the same anymore.
I honestly don't know where to start... there is so much to unpack.
I guess I'll just try it chronologically...
So, Fxtec sold us a smartphone with SD835 SoC, which would get Android security updates for at least another two years.
When using a community-driven OS like Lineage, security updates would even surpass this.
Shipping was supposed to take place in March.
The shipping cost was a flat fee of $40. This was supposed to include pre-paid customs, which was a key point for me, since custom rates are effing high here.
All of this at a somewhat steep price, considering the hardware's age (e.g. almost 4 year old SoC).
But the idea of having a (more or less) modern smartphone with a proper keyboard was just too tempting.
I opted in.
But I remained concerned about the SD835 and it's upcoming EOL.
I wasn't all too sure the advertised two years of Android updates would cover SoC firmware updates as well. (Android updates =/= firmware updates)
Without firmware updates it doesn't really matter which OS you are running, since you become vulnerable at the lowest software-level. Exploiting firmware vulnerabilities can allow for total control over the device. And no OS update (not even a community-driven one) could ever fix this.
When I asked questions about this in the campaign's comments, nothing happened at first. Although other questions got answered by Fxtec. I was being ignored.
After multiple comments and finally reaching out to them via email, I got an answer.
I was told not to worry, 'since the phone would get Android security updates for at least two years.'
Yeah...that's a wake-up call right there.
Following above explanation, anyone should be able to see why this answer is such borderline ingenious sh*t cake.
Anyway, I had already lost too much time asking questions to get a refund. And since none of the other backers seemed to be interested in a secure phone, I faced the facts and told myself that I'd just sell it (probably at a minor loss, due to the old hardware) once it arrived in March.
Oh! Look at that! It's March.
So I just went to check on the campaign to see, when my phone will arrive.
BAM! Huge campaign update.
The SoC hit EOL even before they could build the phones!! Their supplier can't provide the SD835 anymore!
If I wasn't affected myself, I'd be ROFLing all over the house right about now.
Instead of the SD835 everyone now gets a phone with an SD662.
>But fear not, at least this SoC still gets proper security updates, as 'SO MANY OF YOU' were concerned about that...<
>Oh, by the way, there might be a *slight *drop in performance<
>Oh, and we silently updated our FAQ. Now it mentions that the $40 shipping doesn't include customs anymore. It's because of Brexit. We specifically said Brexit wouldn't be an issue. But now it is.
Well, not our money that's gettin' p*ssed away.
Enjoy spending ~25% more than expected on your already expensive phone.<
...* nice, deep breaths --- in ... ... and out --- in ... ... and out *...
Ok. So. Let me get this straight.
Now I am forced to pay 25% more for an already expensive phone, that was already a little weak on the hardware.
Hardware that just got further downgraded from an old flagship-SoC to a new and ~20% slower mid-low range SoC.
... anything else?! Well, yeah, delivery has been postponed. New estimated shipping date is August.
But at this point: who gives a f*ck?!
What's my endgame/why am I writing all of this?!
To be honest, I simply HAD TO write this. If I hadn't, I would probably have smashed someones car or something.
Yes, I'm insanely furious. And I feel betrayed.
Needless to say I will never deal with Fxtec in any shape or form ever again.
And should the name ever come up again when I'm around -be it online or IRL-,
I will strongly -and with every fiber of my being- advise people against any kind of dealings with Fxtec.
Backing this company has been a huge mistake!
Shame on you, Fxtec. Shame on you!
And shame on XDA for partnering up with such a company!
NEVER.AGAIN.!!
A little late to respond, but 100% had the same feelings. I contacted them about a refund when the news hit, which they refused.
We're getting a worse phone, later in the year. We're getting a SoC that's available in 130 euro phones TODAY, in a 600+ euro package IN AUGUST AT BEST. And we get to pay additional import fees. They 100% had to know this was coming. If they didn't, their purchasing staff simply didn't do their job. The responsibility rests with them.
I was really on the fence when backing this phone, as it had an old SoC, and it was pretty expensive. But I like slider phones, and I'm pretty sure this was our last hurrah before they go away entirely - being stuck with an older phone seemed fine if they used a flagship CPU and promised long community support. I also thought "what could go wrong, it's an existing product, they've been selling these phones for a while now".
100% feeling ripped off. That keyboard would bettter end up being amazing. Never going to back a technology based crowdfunding again.
My guess is that F(x)tec is probably in financial trouble and unable to give out refunds for disgruntled backers. They'd rather take the reputation hit on the chin and postpone bankruptcy for a while. Though with one niche phone that didn't sell great, and this attempt at building a bigger community around their product backfiring massively, I doubt it will save them for very long.
What else is there to say? Apprehensive-jumped hit the nail on the head.
I too was on the fence,
Who's F(x)tec, I said.... But my love for, and loyalty to XDA and it's community made me believe, "it's XDA, they wouldn't partner to a relatively no name if they didn't do thorough research first, right?"... Christ all mighty....
To think now, that I would back a company, with $$ I should have kept in bank cause the pandemic destroyed my smart home business just weeks later, with the bull**** they have force fed their backs for what seems like an eternity.... Boils my blood doesn't quite fit the bill.
I will second that motion, so hopefully it carries... To EVERYONE'S ears, and well into the future: For shame F(x)tec, for shame.
I would flat out call you thieves in the night, if XDA wasn't attached to this.
(To be clear, I still, and always will, have faith and respect for XDA. I'm certain they did not know f(x)tec was selling snake oil....)
According to their latest update (November Pro1-X update | Nov 30, 2021 • 11:02AM)
"""
We are re-booking a manufacturing slot with the factory for the 5th January 2022. Due to the number of steps/complexity involved in the Pro1-X production line, it is difficult for us to book an assembly slot any sooner. For reference, we have 30+ individual procedures, compared to a generic smartphone which typically has around 10 steps).
We will manufacture some pre-production units from the 15th December 2021 to get familiar with the production line and all of the necessary steps required for mass manufacturing ahead of January 2022. These pre-production units will then be sent out to all of the OS developers to help us verify the production quality and functionality internally.
"""
Sound like some of these devices may actually begin to exist within the next few months. Who knows with shipping. I just accepted it as a loss and move on with my life. If a phone ever shows up, cool.
I don't think ill ever do crowdfunding any more, too many crappy kickstarters and indegogos out there its just not worth the risk.
too bad its so hard to find a phone with headphone jack and no stupid hole or notch in the screen these days.
0xDE57 said:
According to their latest update (November Pro1-X update | Nov 30, 2021 • 11:02AM)
"""
We are re-booking a manufacturing slot with the factory for the 5th January 2022. Due to the number of steps/complexity involved in the Pro1-X production line, it is difficult for us to book an assembly slot any sooner. For reference, we have 30+ individual procedures, compared to a generic smartphone which typically has around 10 steps).
We will manufacture some pre-production units from the 15th December 2021 to get familiar with the production line and all of the necessary steps required for mass manufacturing ahead of January 2022. These pre-production units will then be sent out to all of the OS developers to help us verify the production quality and functionality internally.
"""
Sound like some of these devices may actually begin to exist within the next few months. Who knows with shipping. I just accepted it as a loss and move on with my life. If a phone ever shows up, cool.
I don't think ill ever do crowdfunding any more, too many crappy kickstarters and indegogos out there its just not worth the risk.
too bad its so hard to find a phone with headphone jack and no stupid hole or notch in the screen these days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would be nice if the XDA team would drop by one in a while to give us some hope, but my post at the beginning of the month has no replies but my own. At this point, even if we get the hardware I'm not sure the software will be maintained or updated by anybody. There's certainly no indication of XDA interest here. There are no ROM threads, no representation from Ubuntu Touch nor LineageOS.
Sure, I get it that until the hardware is out, there won't be anything to install, but someone somewhere must be working on it if there is intention to support it. I'm not seeing any evidence of that, though.
it's now april.
I still do not have this device. in fact this device is still not in production yet.
I backed this project strictly on the reputation of xda and I feel royally ripped off and cheated. in the time since the campaign ended I have purchased 2 devices both with better specs than this device. a "brand bew" device that will receive less than a year of security updates if it eventually comes out.
the thing that I am majorly disappointed in is that xda isn't or hasn't used its influence as an entity cosigned on this project to push fxtec to honor the backers that requested refunds due to the delays and spec downgrades that were initially promised. their reputation is also put into question here.
I'm saying right here and now that if this actually gets made and shipped that I'm not keeping it. I'm not interested in any 2017 midrange device that will barely be given updates in 2022 maybe and a gimmick like a physical keyboard isn't enough for me to have anymore interest in this massive money sink and disappointment.
ctkatz said:
it's now april.
I still do not have this device. in fact this device is still not in production yet.
I backed this project strictly on the reputation of xda and I feel royally ripped off and cheated. in the time since the campaign ended I have purchased 2 devices both with better specs than this device. a "brand bew" device that will receive less than a year of security updates if it eventually comes out.
the thing that I am majorly disappointed in is that xda isn't or hasn't used its influence as an entity cosigned on this project to push fxtec to honor the backers that requested refunds due to the delays and spec downgrades that were initially promised. their reputation is also put into question here.
I'm saying right here and now that if this actually gets made and shipped that I'm not keeping it. I'm not interested in any 2017 midrange device that will barely be given updates in 2022 maybe and a gimmick like a physical keyboard isn't enough for me to have anymore interest in this massive money sink and disappointment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said
Big thumbs up to your "why is XDA completely mute" part... They too have silently washed their hands of this grossly incompetent project...!??
Another great example of the pitfalls of crowdfunding - very difficult to truly protect yourself from people who take the money and run. Hard enough these days depending on what you are trying to fund to not have the crowdfunding service itself steal your money.
This phone did pique my interest when I first read about it the other day, but not anymore. Sad for the folks that got suckered.
EDIT: Also, another bad example of how people are being taken advantage of by a business model that puts unfinished products up for sale, increasingly dependent on software and of course the bugs that come with it. Cars, appliances, smartphones... We are giving them permission to do this to us by continuing to buy their dook.
Backing Indiegogo campaigns is gambling. There's been more than a quarter million failed Indiegogo campaigns. You're lucky if you get anything from backing one.
Mine arrived... with a defective screen!
The backlight on the keyboard is also disappointingly variant in brightness, and the letters are misaligned. The bottom of some letters are lower than the key right next to them.
i say avoid this company like the plague.
Welcome to 2023. Fxtec didn't do due diligence on their manufacturer's claims that the 662 could do hdmi out, so we get software video out. "But its not our fault," they say.
Meanwhile most backers haven't gotten their devices, while Expansys is selling them for HALF the price backers paid.
Backer 1977 here. Purchase date: Dec 7, 2020
So lets recap....
downgraded SOC. how did they not know it was EOL ~3 months before it went EOL? do they not read the spec sheets and documentation?
no hdmi out which was part of why i purchase
wait 3 years, now obsolete out of the box in combination with #1
sold on xpansys for LESS
absolute silence from XDA across multiple threads:
this one
Reproach to XDA
I find it depressing that you let them use your brand name (XDA) to promote this pseudo-scam. I have always considered this forum the top in the field of telephony and modding. I hope that your association will prosecute F (x) tech by giving a...
forum.xda-developers.com
Moderators: get XDA to start updating this forum!
The 3/2022 update from F(x)tec says it will be mere weeks to delivery, still nothing here! Moderators emailed me after my last rant in another section - to you, I cannot reply from that email because the service only receives. If there really...
forum.xda-developers.com
now I am willing to give a break on #3 due to supply chain issue industry wide, thats not on fxtec to be fair.... and manufacturing is not trivial. however that point is made complete moot by #4 which really rubs salt in the wound to pay more for a device thats now being sold for less on xpansys, and worse somehow those devices are delivered BEFORE backers from 3 f*****ing years ago? thats really icing on the cake. why did xpansys get devices? why not give backers the phones they sold to xpansys? how do xpansys phones exists but backers phones do not?
re #5: a simple "hey sorry, manufacturing is difficult" would suffice, but they seem to lack the integrity to even acknowledge it.
cool i guess.... cant wait for it to arrive so I can sell it immediately and MAYBE recoup half of the cost. i dont know if ill even bother opening it play with it cuz itll sell for a little more factory sealed.
wish i purchased a Pinephone instead. GrapheneOS is the only usable android these days anyways.
the comments section on the indiegogo is also a bit of a ride.... probably worth a yt video of its own
VelosterM14 said:
Another great example of the pitfalls of crowdfunding - very difficult to truly protect yourself from people who take the money and run. Hard enough these days depending on what you are trying to fund to not have the crowdfunding service itself steal your money.
This phone did pique my interest when I first read about it the other day, but not anymore. Sad for the folks that got suckered.
EDIT: Also, another bad example of how people are being taken advantage of by a business model that puts unfinished products up for sale, increasingly dependent on software and of course the bugs that come with it. Cars, appliances, smartphones... We are giving them permission to do this to us by continuing to buy their dook.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Normally I wouldnt have crowd funded but it was XDA's involvement that gave confidence, and the fact that they succefully deliver the previous model proving they could deliver.
As someone who wants to start up a crowdfunding campaign for making a phone, I hope I won't upset customers to the point of this....
AltFantasy said:
As someone who wants to start up a crowdfunding campaign for making a phone, I hope I won't upset customers to the point of this....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well...simply make sure you can deliver what you promise. use this as a case study of what NOT to do lol.
good luck with your project!
I have to say I am satisfied myself. It took longer, some specs changed, but fortunately those were not issue for me. I had time, and I prefer battery life over faster clock. It's now 3 months I am using. I haven't tried android, only LOS.
I want to be as fair as possible. I will reiterate that I am not upset at the wait, again I will not blame fxtec for the supply chain issues caused by the pandemic. I don't even mind a slower SoC at this point as long as it works. And I still like XDA.
The real reason I posted was when I discovered they were selling backers phones on expansys. This crosses the line from an unfortunate investment in to some sort of fraud (IMO, not a lawyer).
This image sums up how it feels:
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"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
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It's currently listed as discontinued but luckily the wayback can tell us that as of Oct 5, 2022 they had at least 5 in stock:
F(x)tec Pro1 X Dual-SIM (6GB/128GB, Black, QWERTY Keyboard) - EXPANSYS Hong Kong
Buy the F(x)tec Pro1 X Dual-SIM for HK$2,249 with free shipping to Hong Kong & Taiwan. Also accessories, special offers, reviews, videos, specs, features and forums.
web.archive.org
And there is currently a review, proving that expansys delivered a phone BEFORE fxtec fulfilled backers:
PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG! I do not want to be spreading misinformation. But how is this fair?
----
Given that this device had an SD card slot (rare now a days) and was going to have HDMI over USB-C, one of my use cases was going to be loading up an SD with movies/shows and being able to have a mobile movie theater for movie nights or hotels / travel.
If not fraud, then at the very least false advertising given that they STILL list and sell "USB Type-C with HDMI support" on their site:
I want to like this phone. Really I do. But this is kinda silly at this point.
jan4321 said:
I have to say I am satisfied myself. It took longer, some specs changed, but fortunately those were not issue for me. I had time, and I prefer battery life over faster clock. It's now 3 months I am using. I haven't tried android, only LOS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you please test HDMI over USB-C? Is it really not supported? I want to be wrong.