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ive just noticed something interesting slightly realted to the slow graphics performance - if i use start->programs my programs list is really slow to render. but if i use the shortcut to programs in the app section of the htc home plugin its really smooth with no lag or slowdown at all
Does anyone know if these are properly implemented through the APIs? I am aware that the HTC home screen supposedly uses the 3D chip, but nowhere says how.
If it is properly implemented it would be very interesting for developers and gamers alike.
Judging by peoples experiences with DirectDraw at least that API is not accelerated. OpenGL ES is though and Direct3D is probably mapped to Open GL ES calls and would also be accelerated (with some form of, probably slight, performance penalty).
There are two threads in this subforum that are asking for benchmark results from the Diamond but so far none of the current owners seem interested in providing anything.
ill do a benchmark if its easy to do, what program do i use?
jkr284 said:
ill do a benchmark if its easy to do, what program do i use?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.spbsoftwarehouse.com/products/benchmark/??en
http://int13.net/gxmark.htm
http://classic.pocketgear.com/software_detail.asp?id=8287
As far as easy goes you just run the application basically.
Thanks
Ive been trying to run a full spb test on the diamond at default settings and on battery power. It didnt like the word test (seemed to stick at about 90% of opening the alice word doc then looped forever!) and also didnt like the pocket internet explorer test (well it opened opera browser for the test, and didnt like it for some reason!), just running it now with buit in application tests disabled.
Ok First Heres the SPB Benchmark results with "Built in Applications Test" Disabled:
- <benchmark-results>
- <info>
<platform-name>HTC Touch Diamond P3700</platform-name>
<device-name>HTC Diamond</device-name>
<start-date>06.05.2008</start-date>
</info>
- <main-tests>
<fs-largefilewrite>566.700000</fs-largefilewrite>
<fs-largefileread>107.900000</fs-largefileread>
<fs-largefilecopy>679.800000</fs-largefilecopy>
<fs-manyfileswrite>5897.500000</fs-manyfileswrite>
<fs-manyfilesread>429.300000</fs-manyfilesread>
<fs-manyfilescopy>4549.900000</fs-manyfilescopy>
<fs-dirlisting>1334.200000</fs-dirlisting>
<fs-db>756.900000</fs-db>
<grf-ddb>6.670000</grf-ddb>
<grf-dib>25.095000</grf-dib>
<grf-gapi>5.390000</grf-gapi>
<misc-zip>2660.000000</misc-zip>
<misc-jpeg>417.600000</misc-jpeg>
<misc-arkaball>8.140500</misc-arkaball>
<misc-mflops>3578.800000</misc-mflops>
<misc-mops>1001.700000</misc-mops>
<misc-mwips>7229.000000</misc-mwips>
<misc-memcpy>8.449000</misc-memcpy>
</main-tests>
</benchmark-results>
GXMark produced a white screen! i had to reset the device! No Idea whats up there!
Pocket Pc Mark wouldnt do a run on the graphics test, it got to 6/8 test and then locked, had to reset again, sorry!
Thanks for your efforts!
The SPB results are actually very poor unfortunately. Almost too poor, did you have lots of stuff running in the background or anything like that?
Apart from the pure CPU tests (including decompressing a JPEG and a ZIP file which both are very CPU bound as well) both filesystem operations and graphics operations are a lot lower (or at best equal in some cases) to what you would see on a Kaiser for an example..
I think at least we can say with certainty that the GAPI and GDI/DDI drivers are not any better than on the Kaiser, very minor boost due to faster memory and CPU sped can possibly be achieved but that's nothing compared to real hardware acceleration.
I really do hope that the next version of Windows Mobile and the included APIs andate some sort of all around graphics acceleration Video hardware acceleration seems to much like a tack on in current WM and the Diamond seems to be the ultimate proof of that.
the only things running are the default progs in the background like touchflo etc. something has been improved as ackys breakout and bejeweled 2 run beautifully in vga aswell, they ran like **** on my touch cruise (slowdown and stutters) in reality this phone ****s all over the cruise performance wise in games and general use.
One thing that was better on the cruise is the 3g reception which i could get inside my house but not with the diamond.
Tomtom6 displays real nice in vga also but takes a longer time plotting routes, much longer!
Try a psx emulator and see if it runs :]
"I really do hope that the next version of Windows Mobile and the included APIs andate some sort of all around graphics acceleration Video hardware acceleration seems to much like a tack on in current WM and the Diamond seems to be the ultimate proof of that."
it would still require drivers even if ms provided them like in normal windows
doubt ms would pay the coins htc dident
Can anyone with a Diamond please run the Futuremark benchmark as it does an open gl test as well as 2d and more, thanks
http://www.futuremark.com/download/spmarkjavajsr184/
I downloaded the suite (clicked all the tests)
Ran it and heres what i got:
http://service.futuremark.com/orbmobile/projectdetails_spmarkjavaweb.jsp?projectId=23157&projectType=20
Looks like it didnt want to do the 3d test......
This is discouraging. Most of the tests don't run, and those that run give really low results? Sounds familiar. I really don't want this to be yet another great hardware with lackluster software support...
Rudegar said:
it would still require drivers even if ms provided them like in normal windows
doubt ms would pay the coins htc dident
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes of course it would need drivers
but current Windows Mobile seems to be built with the assumption that there will be no specialized graphics hardware (so everything is build to run in software)
desktop windows is built on the assumption that there will be hardware acceleratio for 3D, video playback and even the GUI, I'm hoping windows mobile 7 sports a similiar approach, thus "forcing" manufacturers who want to ship even baseline WM devices to support their hardware with graphics drivers
also something with the underlying framework in windows mobile seems off when it comes to hw accelerated graphics, as I mentioned earlier it feels like a tack on that wasn't planned in the first place
thus even when we have devices with hardware and drivers it still not universally applicable (check the diamond for a perfect example, it has some level of hardware acceleration but it's not general and system wide for whatever reason)
so what I am hoping for is a standardized, general system wide assumption that future WinMo will have graphics hardware just the same as any PC today has some level of hardware acceleration (in effect making it close to impossible for companies like HTC to ship devices with hardware but without drivers)
jkr284 said:
I downloaded the suite (clicked all the tests)
Ran it and heres what i got:
http://service.futuremark.com/orbmo...arkjavaweb.jsp?projectId=23157&projectType=20
Looks like it didnt want to do the 3d test......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for running the test
Radeon123 said:
Thanks for running the test
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Pleasure!
To everyone worrying about gaming and movie performance i wouldnt worry at all,
The latest coreplayer has no lag in high quality films
Ive tried loads of astraware native vga games and they run flawlessly, with soe tweaking as shown on other threads the interface is now ery quick. I wouldnt bother stressing yourselves over the performance as its stellar for the size of the device.
jkr284 said:
My Pleasure!
To everyone worrying about gaming and movie performance i wouldnt worry at all,
The latest coreplayer has no lag in high quality films
Ive tried loads of astraware native vga games and they run flawlessly, with soe tweaking as shown on other threads the interface is now ery quick. I wouldnt bother stressing yourselves over the performance as its stellar for the size of the device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
640x480 movies? (Coreplayer played those fine up until the latest Kaiser ROM)
3D games or regular 2d ones? (basically all astraware games run just fine on my tytn ii for an example)
I'm not trying to rain on your parade, it just seems as if the Diamond is basically missing the performance some of us thought it to have. (Though that's not to say that the performance is poor)
UPDATE ON CALL OF DUTY: Works absolutely awesome, NOT using minimal settings, i was able to play pretty well. NOTE: Tytn2 and Touch Cruise was NOT able to play due to heavy lag even with minimal settings. Game was perfectly fine, with except with just a small little, not lag, but looks like the rendering was a bit slow as i looked around, when i used hardkeys and stylus at the same time. NOTE: ALL pdas lag in gaming when using hardkeys and joystick at the same time. However, it was minimal, and call of duty was enjoyable to say the least. SO yes, it DOES have graphic accelerators. Proper benchmarks will be done when i have proper time.
UPDATE. SPB benchmark seems to hang. cant run it. hangs at testing word document.
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/711698
Baronic said:
UPDATE ON CALL OF DUTY: Works absolutely awesome, NOT using minimal settings, i was able to play pretty well. NOTE: Tytn2 and Touch Cruise was NOT able to play due to heavy lag even with minimal settings. Game was perfectly fine, with except with just a small little, not lag, but looks like the rendering was a bit slow as i looked around, when i used hardkeys and stylus at the same time. NOTE: ALL pdas lag in gaming when using hardkeys and joystick at the same time. However, it was minimal, and call of duty was enjoyable to say the least. SO yes, it DOES have graphic accelerators. Proper benchmarks will be done when i have proper time.
UPDATE. SPB benchmark seems to hang. cant run it. hangs at testing word document.
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/711698
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would love to see a youtube video of COD on the diamond. Can you please post. I would really appreciate it.
Just because opengl es and D3DM work doesnt mean that the GPU is doing the work. I think all we have here is a software rasterizer that is using the CPU. There is no evidence that i am aware of that proves the graphics chip is active. Here is the evidence i collected that shows how the graphics are rendered.
1. In Touchflo 3d,if you go to the settings tab,and click about, there is a list of all the technology used to develop TF3D. Where it says opengl, there is a copyright 2004 Hans-Martin Will. Hans-Martin Will started the vincent3d opensource opengl es project, which is a SOFTWARE implementation. Basically what this means is,Touchflo 3d uses this graphics library to render graphics.
2.The D3Dmobile driver is only a wrapper around opengl ES. Why would we need a wrapper for D3DM if hardware drivers were present? What this means is that D3Dm is also rendered by software only. Notice how DirectDraw is also slow? Thats because there are no drivers.It wouldnt make sense for drivers to allow 3d acceleration only without support for 2d.
3.Samsung Omnia drivers work on the Diamond/Raphael. Huh? These two devices dont even have the same graphics chip. How can a driver for one graphics chip work on a completely different brand/model/type of graphics chip? It cant. The only explanation there could be is that the omnia driver is also a software rasterizer and thats why it works with the htc devices.
that sucks, because it makes sense..
most interesting...
i smell conspiracy...
so true.......................................
Play a very high quality MP4 (h.264) in software mode (with coreplayer for an example) and watch your diamond completely choke, then launch the same video with windows media player and see the difference!
That's one proof of hardware acceleration at least...
Also I highly doubt a game like Xtract would run as great as it does on the Diamond without any hardware acceleration, the graphics and framerate is way to good for the cpu to handle in only software mode, even if it was just drivers.
Aha, that is perhaps why iGo runs way better on my old tek S200 than on my fresh, new touch diamond.
mayby if you read the posts & topics
then you would see there is a 3d driver
just use de diamond ati 3d driver
my diamond goes from 0.2 fps in the hologram program to an stable 25 fps
Thats a hole inprovement
Ps sorry for my bad english
and i also included the driver in the attachment
Greetings Nossie
Hm, where did you find that? It didn't notice any differnce in the slowness of IGO really..Why isn't that installed by default?
disagree...
test the software and hardware versions of COD 2, THPS 2 and NFS Undercover. See the difference: 3D acceleration not only improves the texture and graphics in general, but the framerate. I think if it was just some kind of emulation 3d, improved graphics would worsen the framerate, but what you see is an increase in FPS! Therefore, I believe there is actually hardware acceleration.
hello all
i have a standard xvid clip (640x272) that can only play @ 20.8fps on core player(stock rom) (with itje 10.1 ROM i get 21.3fps)
the same clip plays @ 23.8fps on the touch HD and 24.3 diamond 2(stock ROMs)
i tried so many other clips as benchmarks and its evident that the x1 is constantly %18-%20 slower than other HTC devices with identical specs (cpu and resolution)
can anyone explain this phenomena? i sure hope that there is light at the end of the tunnel
What do you have installed on it? Perhaps some background processes, like panelmanager?
come to think of it, its not just the video that is constantly slower on the x1. its the whole ROM in general (navigating between various wm programs, switching between applications....etc) is clearly much slower on the xperia even though it has the same CPU speeds (just look at an video review of the tp2 or td2 in youtube and you can clearly see how they are much faster)
even the fastest x1 cooked roms are noticeably slower than the HD,td2 and tp2 stock roms
hope SE can do something about that and i hope and i hope our chefs can eventually close the performance gap.
Angelusz said:
What do you have installed on it? Perhaps some background processes, like panelmanager?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its actully a fresh flash (itje 10.1) with only core player installed now not even emails or contacts are added yet
do you get better performance on reasonably good quality XVID dvdrips (close to 640x272 resolutions)
What coreplayer version did you use to test? I can try installing the same and see what I get. Also, what settings?
Same problem here, videos always cease in the first seconds.
By the way, which coreplayer version is the best to use for xperia?
im not facing a bug like F-Styla as it does not suffer from the stuter i just have constant low performance compared to HD and td2
i just benchmarked the video on an ancient HTC macian and i got 39fps!!!!!!! (on qvga resolution though)
using full version of coreplayer 1.3.2
THE GRIZZ said:
im not facing a bug like F-Styla as it does not suffer from the stuter i just have constant low performance compared to HD and td2
i just benchmarked the video on an ancient HTC macian and i got 39fps!!!!!!! (on qvga resolution though)
using full version of coreplayer 1.3.2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since I discovered this great app (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=467590) never had a problem viewing any video. Great resolution, small size of files, no lags.
However, I heard somewhere that coreplayer can't use hw acceleration on X1. Do not know if that's true also for HTC, but that could explain the performance differences
[email protected] said:
Since I discovered this great app (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=467590) never had a problem viewing any video.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
reencoding videos is not really a solution if you ask me
-my understanding that full qtv support is coming with ver2.0
my problem is that why the heck is the x1 so much slower (in everything)than identically specd devices like the HD. is there an easy way to varify that we are runiing at the FULL 528mhz and overclock in case we are not
THE GRIZZ said:
reencoding videos is not really a solution if you ask me
-my understanding that full qtv support is coming with ver2.0
my problem is that why the heck is the x1 so much slower (in everything)than identically specd devices like the HD. is there an easy way to varify that we are runiing at the FULL 528mhz and overclock in case we are not
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Somewhere here in this forum I read that actually the X1 is NOT running at full speed. I know, I have not been really precise... but with a little bit of search you can find out the thread I am talking about.
I think all HTC devices except the original XDA have video sync/playback issues. There are tons of threads on this. Get yourself a PMP to enjoy quality videos.
X1 runs at 400 mhz currently, although the processor is in fact 528 mhz. The downgrade is made in order to save power and lower heat levels. You can check the current speed by installing an app like HomeScreen++.
I would like to see what the X1 can do with the full 528 mhz, but I haven't seen any solution for it so far.
I enjoy perfect quality after I downloaded the app from the front page.
orelsi said:
X1 runs at 400 mhz currently, although the processor is in fact 528 mhz. They downgrade is made in order to save power and lower heat levels. You can check the current speed by installing an app like HomeScreen++.
I would like to see what the X1 can do with the full 528 mhz, but I haven't seen any solution for it so far.
I enjoy perfect quality after I downloaded the app from the front page.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i got a program that can change clockspeed .. up to 528 , with nice settings like , lower it down @ backlight off , lower it down @ power button
it can still play mp3 at only 62mhz badass phone lol
i had it cooked in my rom Touch X 6.1.2b
programs called nueCPL - ClockSpee v1.2 (Build117)
www.nuerom.com
http://www.nuerom.com/BlogEngine/page/nueDynamicClock.aspx
THE GRIZZ said:
reencoding videos is not really a solution if you ask me
-my understanding that full qtv support is coming with ver2.0
my problem is that why the heck is the x1 so much slower (in everything)than identically specd devices like the HD. is there an easy way to varify that we are runiing at the FULL 528mhz and overclock in case we are not
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I experienced the same slowness using Coreplayer, I am using v1.2.5.
After I put a non Touch-flo on the SEX1 I did not have a slow Coreplayer anymore, so I would suggest try a different ROM and see if the problem is still there.
I am using gtrabs wm6.5 rom and I have no problem playing video on Coreplayer without reencoding the video.
souljaboy said:
programs called nueCPL - ClockSpee v1.2 (Build117)
www.nuerom.com
http://www.nuerom.com/BlogEngine/page/nueDynamicClock.aspx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
-just installed it
its says im already @528 (not 400mhz). i changed everything to 528mhz on all settings but that did not help in fact for some dumb reason in getting even less performance now @19.18 fps
-installed home screen ++ but im not sure where the settings is to show current speed (will look more after i reflash)
-turned off touchflo3d also didnt help
-this 400MHZ thing seems like a major problem with the X1, are you sure its true? i would imagine a lot of noise and complaints if it were true ?
-will go and flash into a beare bones rom now to see if it helps
souljaboy said:
i got a program that can change clockspeed .. up to 528 , with nice settings like , lower it down @ backlight off , lower it down @ power button
it can still play mp3 at only 62mhz badass phone lol
i had it cooked in my rom Touch X 6.1.2b
programs called nueCPL - ClockSpee v1.2 (Build117)
www.nuerom.com
http://www.nuerom.com/BlogEngine/page/nueDynamicClock.aspx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks! That works to make it feel quite a bit snappier (I know its not scientific, but haven't benchmarked anything)
I am also having a video problem, rather than make new thread I post it here.
Well, not a single HD video plays on my Xperia now, Coreplayer tries to but its so choppy and insane which I now know doesn't use hardware acceleration.
Now after converting the video with Touch HD video converter software, WMP says "The source filter for this file could not be loaded."
I also found this: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=365381
But still nothing at all.
Any solutions? Must I change ROMs to play HD videos?
weird I don't have any problem with video performance, I'm using coreplayer and they just flies!!!!!!!
wazaaappp said:
weird I don't have any problem with video performance, I'm using coreplayer and they just flies!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats weird. are sure your video files are good resolution
can you make sure of the resolution of the file. also did you use the benchmarking tool in core player
i changed the rom but im getting the same results
THE GRIZZ said:
-just installed it
its says im already @528 (not 400mhz). i changed everything to 528mhz on all settings but that did not help in fact for some dumb reason in getting even less performance now @19.18 fps
-installed home screen ++ but im not sure where the settings is to show current speed (will look more after i reflash)
-this 400MHZ thing seems like a major problem with the X1, are you sure its true? i would imagine a lot of noise and complaints if it were true ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
- I think its under ...options - indicators.... IIRC.
- It is major and was talked about quite a lot when the X1 was launched.
DeeChan said:
I am also having a video problem, rather than make new thread I post it here.
Well, not a single HD video plays on my Xperia now, Coreplayer tries to but its so choppy and insane which I now know doesn't use hardware acceleration.
Now after converting the video with Touch HD video converter software, WMP says "The source filter for this file could not be loaded."
I also found this: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=365381
But still nothing at all.
Any solutions? Must I change ROMs to play HD videos?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had a similar issue when I messed up my video drivers with something I installed. The only solution was a hard reset.
wm6.5 is relatively new, so I haven't seen too many threads covering 3D drivers on wm6.5. Although it's really not a huge deal to me, (2D acceleration still works fine), I just noticed that Call of Duty 2 Accelerated, GLbenchmark, and some other 3d benchmark apps no longer run.
Again, there really aren't any day-to-day apps that I use that require 3D acceleration, but it would be nice to figure out why it isn't working.
Has anyone gotten COD2 working with acceleration?
mikeeey said:
wm6.5 is relatively new, so I haven't seen too many threads covering 3D drivers on wm6.5. Although it's really not a huge deal to me, (2D acceleration still works fine), I just noticed that Call of Duty 2 Accelerated, GLbenchmark, and some other 3d benchmark apps no longer run.
Again, there really aren't any day-to-day apps that I use that require 3D acceleration, but it would be nice to figure out why it isn't working.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it does work i got cod2,xtract,quake3 plus manila3d all working perfectly accelerated on my rom 6.5 build 23009