Just because opengl es and D3DM work doesnt mean that the GPU is doing the work. I think all we have here is a software rasterizer that is using the CPU. There is no evidence that i am aware of that proves the graphics chip is active. Here is the evidence i collected that shows how the graphics are rendered.
1. In Touchflo 3d,if you go to the settings tab,and click about, there is a list of all the technology used to develop TF3D. Where it says opengl, there is a copyright 2004 Hans-Martin Will. Hans-Martin Will started the vincent3d opensource opengl es project, which is a SOFTWARE implementation. Basically what this means is,Touchflo 3d uses this graphics library to render graphics.
2.The D3Dmobile driver is only a wrapper around opengl ES. Why would we need a wrapper for D3DM if hardware drivers were present? What this means is that D3Dm is also rendered by software only. Notice how DirectDraw is also slow? Thats because there are no drivers.It wouldnt make sense for drivers to allow 3d acceleration only without support for 2d.
3.Samsung Omnia drivers work on the Diamond/Raphael. Huh? These two devices dont even have the same graphics chip. How can a driver for one graphics chip work on a completely different brand/model/type of graphics chip? It cant. The only explanation there could be is that the omnia driver is also a software rasterizer and thats why it works with the htc devices.
that sucks, because it makes sense..
most interesting...
i smell conspiracy...
so true.......................................
Play a very high quality MP4 (h.264) in software mode (with coreplayer for an example) and watch your diamond completely choke, then launch the same video with windows media player and see the difference!
That's one proof of hardware acceleration at least...
Also I highly doubt a game like Xtract would run as great as it does on the Diamond without any hardware acceleration, the graphics and framerate is way to good for the cpu to handle in only software mode, even if it was just drivers.
Aha, that is perhaps why iGo runs way better on my old tek S200 than on my fresh, new touch diamond.
mayby if you read the posts & topics
then you would see there is a 3d driver
just use de diamond ati 3d driver
my diamond goes from 0.2 fps in the hologram program to an stable 25 fps
Thats a hole inprovement
Ps sorry for my bad english
and i also included the driver in the attachment
Greetings Nossie
Hm, where did you find that? It didn't notice any differnce in the slowness of IGO really..Why isn't that installed by default?
disagree...
test the software and hardware versions of COD 2, THPS 2 and NFS Undercover. See the difference: 3D acceleration not only improves the texture and graphics in general, but the framerate. I think if it was just some kind of emulation 3d, improved graphics would worsen the framerate, but what you see is an increase in FPS! Therefore, I believe there is actually hardware acceleration.
Related
Does anyone know if these are properly implemented through the APIs? I am aware that the HTC home screen supposedly uses the 3D chip, but nowhere says how.
If it is properly implemented it would be very interesting for developers and gamers alike.
Judging by peoples experiences with DirectDraw at least that API is not accelerated. OpenGL ES is though and Direct3D is probably mapped to Open GL ES calls and would also be accelerated (with some form of, probably slight, performance penalty).
There are two threads in this subforum that are asking for benchmark results from the Diamond but so far none of the current owners seem interested in providing anything.
ill do a benchmark if its easy to do, what program do i use?
jkr284 said:
ill do a benchmark if its easy to do, what program do i use?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.spbsoftwarehouse.com/products/benchmark/??en
http://int13.net/gxmark.htm
http://classic.pocketgear.com/software_detail.asp?id=8287
As far as easy goes you just run the application basically.
Thanks
Ive been trying to run a full spb test on the diamond at default settings and on battery power. It didnt like the word test (seemed to stick at about 90% of opening the alice word doc then looped forever!) and also didnt like the pocket internet explorer test (well it opened opera browser for the test, and didnt like it for some reason!), just running it now with buit in application tests disabled.
Ok First Heres the SPB Benchmark results with "Built in Applications Test" Disabled:
- <benchmark-results>
- <info>
<platform-name>HTC Touch Diamond P3700</platform-name>
<device-name>HTC Diamond</device-name>
<start-date>06.05.2008</start-date>
</info>
- <main-tests>
<fs-largefilewrite>566.700000</fs-largefilewrite>
<fs-largefileread>107.900000</fs-largefileread>
<fs-largefilecopy>679.800000</fs-largefilecopy>
<fs-manyfileswrite>5897.500000</fs-manyfileswrite>
<fs-manyfilesread>429.300000</fs-manyfilesread>
<fs-manyfilescopy>4549.900000</fs-manyfilescopy>
<fs-dirlisting>1334.200000</fs-dirlisting>
<fs-db>756.900000</fs-db>
<grf-ddb>6.670000</grf-ddb>
<grf-dib>25.095000</grf-dib>
<grf-gapi>5.390000</grf-gapi>
<misc-zip>2660.000000</misc-zip>
<misc-jpeg>417.600000</misc-jpeg>
<misc-arkaball>8.140500</misc-arkaball>
<misc-mflops>3578.800000</misc-mflops>
<misc-mops>1001.700000</misc-mops>
<misc-mwips>7229.000000</misc-mwips>
<misc-memcpy>8.449000</misc-memcpy>
</main-tests>
</benchmark-results>
GXMark produced a white screen! i had to reset the device! No Idea whats up there!
Pocket Pc Mark wouldnt do a run on the graphics test, it got to 6/8 test and then locked, had to reset again, sorry!
Thanks for your efforts!
The SPB results are actually very poor unfortunately. Almost too poor, did you have lots of stuff running in the background or anything like that?
Apart from the pure CPU tests (including decompressing a JPEG and a ZIP file which both are very CPU bound as well) both filesystem operations and graphics operations are a lot lower (or at best equal in some cases) to what you would see on a Kaiser for an example..
I think at least we can say with certainty that the GAPI and GDI/DDI drivers are not any better than on the Kaiser, very minor boost due to faster memory and CPU sped can possibly be achieved but that's nothing compared to real hardware acceleration.
I really do hope that the next version of Windows Mobile and the included APIs andate some sort of all around graphics acceleration Video hardware acceleration seems to much like a tack on in current WM and the Diamond seems to be the ultimate proof of that.
the only things running are the default progs in the background like touchflo etc. something has been improved as ackys breakout and bejeweled 2 run beautifully in vga aswell, they ran like **** on my touch cruise (slowdown and stutters) in reality this phone ****s all over the cruise performance wise in games and general use.
One thing that was better on the cruise is the 3g reception which i could get inside my house but not with the diamond.
Tomtom6 displays real nice in vga also but takes a longer time plotting routes, much longer!
Try a psx emulator and see if it runs :]
"I really do hope that the next version of Windows Mobile and the included APIs andate some sort of all around graphics acceleration Video hardware acceleration seems to much like a tack on in current WM and the Diamond seems to be the ultimate proof of that."
it would still require drivers even if ms provided them like in normal windows
doubt ms would pay the coins htc dident
Can anyone with a Diamond please run the Futuremark benchmark as it does an open gl test as well as 2d and more, thanks
http://www.futuremark.com/download/spmarkjavajsr184/
I downloaded the suite (clicked all the tests)
Ran it and heres what i got:
http://service.futuremark.com/orbmobile/projectdetails_spmarkjavaweb.jsp?projectId=23157&projectType=20
Looks like it didnt want to do the 3d test......
This is discouraging. Most of the tests don't run, and those that run give really low results? Sounds familiar. I really don't want this to be yet another great hardware with lackluster software support...
Rudegar said:
it would still require drivers even if ms provided them like in normal windows
doubt ms would pay the coins htc dident
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes of course it would need drivers
but current Windows Mobile seems to be built with the assumption that there will be no specialized graphics hardware (so everything is build to run in software)
desktop windows is built on the assumption that there will be hardware acceleratio for 3D, video playback and even the GUI, I'm hoping windows mobile 7 sports a similiar approach, thus "forcing" manufacturers who want to ship even baseline WM devices to support their hardware with graphics drivers
also something with the underlying framework in windows mobile seems off when it comes to hw accelerated graphics, as I mentioned earlier it feels like a tack on that wasn't planned in the first place
thus even when we have devices with hardware and drivers it still not universally applicable (check the diamond for a perfect example, it has some level of hardware acceleration but it's not general and system wide for whatever reason)
so what I am hoping for is a standardized, general system wide assumption that future WinMo will have graphics hardware just the same as any PC today has some level of hardware acceleration (in effect making it close to impossible for companies like HTC to ship devices with hardware but without drivers)
jkr284 said:
I downloaded the suite (clicked all the tests)
Ran it and heres what i got:
http://service.futuremark.com/orbmo...arkjavaweb.jsp?projectId=23157&projectType=20
Looks like it didnt want to do the 3d test......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for running the test
Radeon123 said:
Thanks for running the test
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Pleasure!
To everyone worrying about gaming and movie performance i wouldnt worry at all,
The latest coreplayer has no lag in high quality films
Ive tried loads of astraware native vga games and they run flawlessly, with soe tweaking as shown on other threads the interface is now ery quick. I wouldnt bother stressing yourselves over the performance as its stellar for the size of the device.
jkr284 said:
My Pleasure!
To everyone worrying about gaming and movie performance i wouldnt worry at all,
The latest coreplayer has no lag in high quality films
Ive tried loads of astraware native vga games and they run flawlessly, with soe tweaking as shown on other threads the interface is now ery quick. I wouldnt bother stressing yourselves over the performance as its stellar for the size of the device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
640x480 movies? (Coreplayer played those fine up until the latest Kaiser ROM)
3D games or regular 2d ones? (basically all astraware games run just fine on my tytn ii for an example)
I'm not trying to rain on your parade, it just seems as if the Diamond is basically missing the performance some of us thought it to have. (Though that's not to say that the performance is poor)
UPDATE ON CALL OF DUTY: Works absolutely awesome, NOT using minimal settings, i was able to play pretty well. NOTE: Tytn2 and Touch Cruise was NOT able to play due to heavy lag even with minimal settings. Game was perfectly fine, with except with just a small little, not lag, but looks like the rendering was a bit slow as i looked around, when i used hardkeys and stylus at the same time. NOTE: ALL pdas lag in gaming when using hardkeys and joystick at the same time. However, it was minimal, and call of duty was enjoyable to say the least. SO yes, it DOES have graphic accelerators. Proper benchmarks will be done when i have proper time.
UPDATE. SPB benchmark seems to hang. cant run it. hangs at testing word document.
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/711698
Baronic said:
UPDATE ON CALL OF DUTY: Works absolutely awesome, NOT using minimal settings, i was able to play pretty well. NOTE: Tytn2 and Touch Cruise was NOT able to play due to heavy lag even with minimal settings. Game was perfectly fine, with except with just a small little, not lag, but looks like the rendering was a bit slow as i looked around, when i used hardkeys and stylus at the same time. NOTE: ALL pdas lag in gaming when using hardkeys and joystick at the same time. However, it was minimal, and call of duty was enjoyable to say the least. SO yes, it DOES have graphic accelerators. Proper benchmarks will be done when i have proper time.
UPDATE. SPB benchmark seems to hang. cant run it. hangs at testing word document.
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/711698
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would love to see a youtube video of COD on the diamond. Can you please post. I would really appreciate it.
Hi, I have new Diamond, and I want to ask, why is video playing so slow in GDI, Direct Draw and others. On my Intel PXA 270 520MHz video playback of the samo video was in TCPMP bench 132% on GDI, Direct Draw etc, but Diamond has barely 50%. Why is this?
PXA (Xscale) processors have Wireless MMX instructions to accelerate the video decoding, while MSM chipset inside Diamond does not. Therefore CPU-only decoding will perform very poorly there.
Hovewer, Diamond has a special video decoding accelerator (QTv), so you have to use CorePlayer with Diamond QTv support and obviously switch it to QTv output mode.
Ingvarr said:
PXA (Xscale) processors have Wireless MMX instructions to accelerate the video decoding, while MSM chipset inside Diamond does not. Therefore CPU-only decoding will perform very poorly there.
Hovewer, Diamond has a special video decoding accelerator (QTv), so you have to use CorePlayer with Diamond QTv support and obviously switch it to QTv output mode.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My movies (FLV and AVI) don't play in Coreplayer in QTv mode. Are you sure the Diamond has QTv support?
pietrucci said:
My movies (FLV and AVI) don't play in Coreplayer in QTv mode. Are you sure the Diamond has QTv support?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
same here:
coreplayer/menu/tools/preferences/QTx Display--i have only one option "TyTNII driver mode" with on/off.
if unthick this only option i have no image
coreplayer v1.2.5 build 4506
OK, thanks, so basicly Xscale accelerate video in every mode, GDI, DirectDraw, because CPU recognize video. And Qualcom has something similiar to that Wireless MMX instructions but it is called QTv and you must have player that can use it, like on PC you must have Video Driver to use VGA card, specially for your GPU. Am I right? So, do you think that it makes Xscale bettter CPU? In other ways, are they simmiliar in performance to each other? Qualcomm and Xscale? I thought that Qualcomm i technically better, coue it is ARM11 but Xscale is lower version of ARM core.
I dont see how Wireless MMX alone makes XScale "better CPU" than MSM. Only because its older than QTv and so supported by older TCPMP, while for QTv you need newest CorePlayer?
This is just how it always happen with new technologies, you always have more software adoption for the older ones.
"TyTNII driver mode" is exactly the QTv support. In Coreplayer 1.2.5 its Diamond-compatible.
pietrucci said:
My movies (FLV and AVI) don't play in Coreplayer in QTv mode. Are you sure the Diamond has QTv support?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, works great! You net latest version of coreplayer and trigger the TyTN II mode in QTv setting.
so I don´t neet to convert the files anymore
Flanders said:
Yes, works great! You net latest version of coreplayer and trigger the TyTN II mode in QTv setting.
so I don´t neet to convert the files anymore
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Incorrect. Some flv files do not play with CorePlayer 1.25 or older versions.
Qtv does not trigger full enabeling mode for all extensions.
Correct that the same movies DO play better on TytnII with QTV support enabled vs. RAW- GDI mode on Diamond. sucks no?
Well, thanks, but in one way sale is better. H can accelerate video in every mode available on TCPMP, so the Xscale must recognize video, if he can accelerate it under every display drivers mod. In fact Diamond must have GDI, DirectDraw etc. But he dont accelerate video on them because he can´t recognize it himself, am I right? Has Xscale or Qualcomm support for accelerating FLV ? Or just Xvid DivX ?
Its not the problem of the MSM CPU, but the problem of TCPMP.
TCPMP have no support for MSM QTv, only for XScale Wireless MMX, thats why it performs poorly on MSM and better on XScale. Because development of TCPMP was basically stopped more than a year ago.
Use latest Coreplayer, it has the proper QTv support and delivers the good performance on Diamond.
Yes, i understand it. I am just saying that even with new CorePlayer you MUST set QTv, but with Xscale, you can set every driver mode you want, GDI, DD, etc. and Xscale can handle it, can recognize it at every driver-mode.
pokevitek said:
Yes, i understand it. I am just saying that even with new CorePlayer you MUST set QTv, but with Xscale, you can set every driver mode you want, GDI, DD, etc. and Xscale can handle it, can recognize it at every driver-mode.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its because XScale Wireless MMX handles only decoding.
QTv handles both decoding & display, its more efficient this way (at least for video playback, especially at higher resolutions).
Now I am little confused. I was asking why Xscale can handle video decoding in every mode, GDI, DD etc. , but Qualcomm only in QTv. And you said that it is becouse of QTv helps displaying, so Xscale can better display images if withount displaying can play video in every mode?
So, I tried CorePlayer 1.2.5 4506 and unfortunelly I must say that Diamond is very slow device. Very! For example: Asus P535 Intel PXA 520MHz - same testing video sequences (704x480, 29FPS, 1,6 Mb/s) - Diamond - QTv mode - 66 %. P535 - DirectDraw - 109%. I want to cry.
You are not directly comparing VGA output with QVGA do you? In VGA case its 4x times more pixels to process. So actually Diamond is more than 2 times faster.
Ingvarr said:
You are not directly comparing VGA output with QVGA do you? In VGA case its 4x times more pixels to process. So actually Diamond is more than 2 times faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
he does, the p535 only has 320x240 display.
Eh, I though you may ask for it, I was thinking this way: Video is first decoded (doesent depend on resolution) than image is scale for screen, in QVGA devices is scaled down, in VGA is normal or scaled up. I didnt see much influence of VGA display here, absolutelly no on decoding, which is most important part.
OK, I did some research and there is an idea: Dell Axim x50v - the 624 PXA CPU, VGA screen. I found that on beta player (practically same as the CorePlayer) a video was played on 92% (i remember just bitrate - 1.6Mb). Of course withount 2700G support. With this support it is 190!!!!!%. If is true, that the Wireless MMX is "QTv" (multimedia instruction set) than Diamond is as fast as 624MHZ Xscale CPU, but only in Axim. Loox 720 (again VGA) can play same file with 520MHZ Xscale on 116%, which is also very good. (Only if case that you can QTv consider as Wirelass MMX analogy). This is bad. Our device is 15% slower using special QTv mode than Xscale on same frequency. I read that ATI Imageon can play with ATI driver play same video at 142%, which is GREAT! On VGA device of course. Does Diamond have ATI Imageon chip? I think TyTN has one. Anyway, they wrote that it isnt just Imageon work, but also a Excelent HP drivers. So I think we can expect some noticable video playback improvement in never versions of CorePlayer, and maybe, just maybe with some new ROM, since Diamond has some drivers, HTC cannot say that they must pay some license, and they just optimalised drivers. If this failes too, there still remains "TyTN 2 driver", and maybe it will be usable on Diamond too.
All I wil say is that nothing works for me on QTv, I have to set it to GDI and only then do I get both video and audio. I have no problem with playback, it plays very smooth actually.
Just a bit confused as to why QTv doesnt work for me.
I'm using AVI files and I'm running Coreplayer version 1.2.2 build 3852
Regards
D.C
Simple answer - you just need Core Plyer 1.2.5. It is becouse of older version support QTv, but not on WM6. Newest version does.
Hi guys,
I've got Tony Hawks Pro Skater 2 on my TyTn II and it's really choppy and unplayable. Yeah I know about how it lacks proper hardware drivers. I've installed the latest video drivers from the htcclassaction site and ran all the tests and the gl benchmarking tool as well and everything checks out.
My question is, how do I (if I can) enable this hardware acceleration in THPS2? If theres no way to enable it in that game, are there any apps at the moment that support hardware acceleration?
Thanks,
Lewis
If you go back to the store where you bought it online you will realize there are two exes, one for SW acceleration and one for HW.
The HW one seems to check for specific video devices though so no idea if it works with the Kaiser.
wm6.5 is relatively new, so I haven't seen too many threads covering 3D drivers on wm6.5. Although it's really not a huge deal to me, (2D acceleration still works fine), I just noticed that Call of Duty 2 Accelerated, GLbenchmark, and some other 3d benchmark apps no longer run.
Again, there really aren't any day-to-day apps that I use that require 3D acceleration, but it would be nice to figure out why it isn't working.
Has anyone gotten COD2 working with acceleration?
mikeeey said:
wm6.5 is relatively new, so I haven't seen too many threads covering 3D drivers on wm6.5. Although it's really not a huge deal to me, (2D acceleration still works fine), I just noticed that Call of Duty 2 Accelerated, GLbenchmark, and some other 3d benchmark apps no longer run.
Again, there really aren't any day-to-day apps that I use that require 3D acceleration, but it would be nice to figure out why it isn't working.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it does work i got cod2,xtract,quake3 plus manila3d all working perfectly accelerated on my rom 6.5 build 23009
Hi does anyone think there will be a chance that windows phone 7 can be ported onto the HTC Diamond, I've just seen the first look videos for the 3 new win 7 phones and the new OS looks awesome
would appreciate an answer
thanks
no i think.....because wp7 requires direct 3d hardware accelerated gpu and diamond have an opengl es 1.1 hardware accelerated gpu....diamond can run d3d apps or games but the driver is a translator from d3d code to opengl code....
but if the driver is translating the code, can't similar be done to wp7, then the graphics might work but it would be slightly slow
yes the graphics will be very slow......i think so maybe...hope i'm miss!