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hi all,
I read the review of the kaiser and wondered whether the better graphics really make a difference.
Can anyone explain the difference to me?
Thanks
Sam.
The difference is that they will be better (!)
So for instance, if you have a Hermes you'll almost certainly have experienced slowdown while watching videos or playing games which will (hopefully) be a thing of the past with the Kaiser.
Even if it still isn't perfect (and what is?) it should at least be a significant improvement...
kaiserchief said:
The difference is that they will be better (!)
So for instance, if you have a Hermes you'll almost certainly have experienced slowdown while watching videos or playing games which will (hopefully) be a thing of the past with the Kaiser.
Even if it still isn't perfect (and what is?) it should at least be a significant improvement...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I thought the Hermes had bad video rendering. I was all like, "Sweet a 400mhz proc now I can watch video flawlessly". Not so. I think my Wizard did video slightly better then the Hermes. OC'd that is...
juiceppc said:
Yeah I thought the Hermes had bad video rendering. I was all like, "Sweet a 400mhz proc now I can watch video flawlessly". Not so. I think my Wizard did video slightly better then the Hermes. OC'd that is...
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Click to collapse
well hey take a look at these benchmark results.
it shows HUGE improvement. 6 times better graphics. that includes gaming and video.
http://www.modaco.com/index.php?showtopic=256117&st=20
the graphics improvements only help if the app was written with the qualcomm gpu in mind...all the older apps run slow gfx wise unless they use GDI
I really don't watch much video, but I HATE my Hermes taking FOREVER to switch from portrait to landscape (and back, especially when I miss calls because my pouch magnet makes it switch, then it has to switch back, and then load the phone app, then the call is gone!!). Watching the online video review the switching seemed faster, but far from instananeous.
mkent_barbados said:
I really don't watch much video, but I HATE my Hermes taking FOREVER to switch from portrait to landscape (and back, especially when I miss calls because my pouch magnet makes it switch, then it has to switch back, and then load the phone app, then the call is gone!!). Watching the online video review the switching seemed faster, but far from instananeous.
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Click to collapse
well im happy to quote from here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=1394910&posted=1#post1394910
that it takes only .5 seconds for the keyboard screen rotation.
i will know if the graphics are better.
I put my text in the smallest view it has,
and when its changed to landscape mode,
we will see if the graphics are better,
and not that it really matters to me.
As far as I have looked on benchmarks, the Qualcomm CPU @ 400MHz is some 10-20% better than a Samsung @400 MHz (TyTN), Which in turn is arond 20% better than a Xscale 270 @ 400MHz... That means that the Qualcomm can be considered to have performace close to 600MHz of a XScale CPU... At least as far as the benchmarks available from several sources tell us. Now, if it really has that 128MB of RAM, then it will be really really interesting, and the first thing XDA folks would do, of course, would be to pump up the page pool to try to eke out a little bit of extra performance...
Brazilian Joe said:
As far as I have looked on benchmarks, the Qualcomm CPU @ 400MHz is some 10-20% better than a Samsung @400 MHz (TyTN), Which in turn is arond 20% better than a Xscale 270 @ 400MHz... That means that the Qualcomm can be considered to have performace close to 600MHz of a XScale CPU... At least as far as the benchmarks available from several sources tell us. Now, if it really has that 128MB of RAM, then it will be really really interesting, and the first thing XDA folks would do, of course, would be to pump up the page pool to try to eke out a little bit of extra performance...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you sure its only 10-20%? i mean they were saying it's 6 times better than the 8525's graphical index.
Performance comparison to 8525
I was wondering if anyone knew if the OS played a part in the 8525 vs 8925 comparison at http://www.modaco.com/HTC-Kaiser-hands-review-t256117.html&st=20?
Could be a factor for some of the performance boost?
I am interested in the extra memory and the built in GPS. (I hope the battery will last with all the bells and whistles!)
Mark
misfitflt said:
I was wondering if anyone knew if the OS played a part in the 8525 vs 8925 comparison at http://www.modaco.com/HTC-Kaiser-hands-review-t256117.html&st=20?
Could be a factor for some of the performance boost?
I am interested in the extra memory and the built in GPS. (I hope the battery will last with all the bells and whistles!)
Mark
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Click to collapse
hey i started that thread on modaco!
yes the OS plays a small part in performance boost, wm6 is generally faster than wm5, but the main thing is the Qualcomm chip boosting the peformance.
I have just been given a Imate 9502 on a plan( ok i have to pay for it over a period of time)and as this uses the same chipset as the the TytnII i thought this would be interesting, also keep in mind the Imate 9502 uses a 640x480 VGA screen..have completed some benchmarking using VSbenchmark..
Imate9502 TYTNII
Graphic test1 1717 1101
Other test2 1913 1875
Jpeg test3 3098 2323
Games test4 1099 1278
Sound test5 1944 0668
Total Score 1954 1449
Very interesting indeed, only score which TytnII wins on is the Games test.But as the 9502 is running at higher res than the TytnII and getting higher scores does this mean Imate have fixed the qualcomm issue????..
movie play back is a breeze stock... will run tests later using diff players
Just from those numbers I'm pretty sure nothing is really fixed. Check out the score difference from the P6500 to the Kaiser
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=381254
I've seen variation even between Kaisers of a few hundred points just depending on ROMs, software and a myriad of little things that can affect the overall score.
Are you taking into account that the res is double that of the TytnII,also according to VSbenchmark's web page,the scores that the 9502 got are lil over mid way compared to a tytnII having a reported score of 1444 admitedly there was a KAISER on there with a slightly higher score but it still wasnt anywhere near the 9502.
The reason i reported the TytnII score and not the KAISER from VSbenchmark was MY TytnII got sim Scores.
Another point of interest is the 9502 has VGA out,which i hooked up to the phillips 50in LCD and works a treat.
also will down load SPD benchmark and will report those scores
Technically, the resolution is 4 times that of the Kaiser if you care comparing pixel count. There are 4 times as many pixels on a 640x480 screen than there is on a 320x240 screen.
Hi mav42,
Could you please report what free program memory (RAM) you get immediately after a soft reset. In some reviews I have read it is just over 32 MB which in my opinion is very low for a 128 MB installed device. For example my TyTn II gives close to 70 MB of free RAM immediately after a soft reset.
Shall be obliged for your response as I am seriously considering getting one myself but the memory issue is holding me back.
Regards
Are we sure that benchmark is even measuring the kind of stuff the Tytn II is known to be missing? I thought someone pointed out, the last time comparisons were drawn with these benchmarks, that the accelerated hardware wasn't actually being tested at all.
Someone (who knows what they're doing) needs to get hold of a rom for the 9502 and start analysing it... Chainfire, where art thou?
Boinng said:
Are we sure that benchmark is even measuring the kind of stuff the Tytn II is known to be missing? I thought someone pointed out, the last time comparisons were drawn with these benchmarks, that the accelerated hardware wasn't actually being tested at all.
Someone (who knows what they're doing) needs to get hold of a rom for the 9502 and start analysing it... Chainfire, where art thou?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im sorry Im just a idiot heres me thinking that both these devices use the same chipset doh....wait a minute they do.......all i did was compare these device's using the same benchmarks at the same time to see if there was any major diff,report it and work from there....and in this case there is a diff .also even if stated by Bong that these benchmarks dont measure accelerated hardware theres still a diff between these 2 devices using software rendition
mav42 said:
Im sorry Im just a idiot heres me thinking that both these devices use the same chipset doh....wait a minute they do.......all i did was compare these device's using the same benchmarks at the same time to see if there was any major diff,report it and work from there....and in this case there is a diff .also even if stated by Bong that these benchmarks dont measure accelerated hardware theres still a diff between these 2 devices using software rendition
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I meant no offence, sorry it appears I've caused some. My question was genuine - if the benchmark doesn't test the imageon features etc, then that would explain the relatively small difference in the tests, even if the 9502's video is miles better in use.
I'm well aware of the shared chipset, and that's why I'm so interested in a developer getting hold of the ROM and extracting any drivers they can.
Can you post a TCPMP or Core player video playback benchmark? Thanks
srmz said:
Hi mav42,
Could you please report what free program memory (RAM) you get immediately after a soft reset. In some reviews I have read it is just over 32 MB which in my opinion is very low for a 128 MB installed device. For example my TyTn II gives close to 70 MB of free RAM immediately after a soft reset.
Shall be obliged for your response as I am seriously considering getting one myself but the memory issue is holding me back.
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok after doing a soft reset
total:84.41mb...........in use 50.26mb..........FREE 34.15mb
hope that helps
This is exactly why we need a 9502 section on here! From what I have read so far (only on mobile phone consumer forums mind, so no techies), the major issues are:
1. Complete lack of free RAM meaning only one or two apps can be run simultaneously.(Unconfirmed how much this issue is related to Telstra ROM/bloatware).
2. Is not natively SDHC compliant and although the WM6 SDHC drivers work, they disable the wifi functionality of the device.
Both of these things I think could be remedied by XDA-Dev geniuses.
I just want to know does the 9502 suffer from the I-hit-a-button-but-nothing-happens-unless-i-hold-it-down-for-a-few-seconds-then-it-clicks syndrom that the Tilt has?
starstreak said:
I just want to know does the 9502 suffer from the I-hit-a-button-but-nothing-happens-unless-i-hold-it-down-for-a-few-seconds-then-it-clicks syndrom that the Tilt has?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have not come accross this problem..........so far....
aww man. if that SOny X1 wasn't coming out, I would buy the 9502. That and not being VGA is my only complaint with the Tilt I have. I miss the VGA and I can't stand it how sometimes the screen or key just wont register presses unless you hold it down.
starstreak said:
aww man. if that SOny X1 wasn't coming out, I would buy the 9502.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sony X1 doesn't have a jogdial and OK button on left side, I guess all TyTN users got used to have that... 9502 does have those
Is there going to have a Imate 9502 Section?
I too holding a imate
I would really appreciate if somebody could post the XIP and some of the other graphics related dlls (DDI.dll, dependencies, etc). ROM dump would be nice.
So far, I have the 9502 ahi2dati.dll from some other thread and it's the same as the KS20 so that's a good comparison point, depending on how you want to look at it.
I would really appreciate if somebody could post the XIP and some of the other graphics related dlls (DDI.dll, dependencies, etc). ROM dump would be nice.
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Click to collapse
Totally agree! if someone gives this dump would be very nice .
im also working on this and i need some dlls. XIP etc.
a ROM dump would be great!
hi....
im highly keen on gettin the diamond2 when it comes out (due to the guaranteed free upgrade to 6.5, and for under £400 there isn't much else that rivals it (correct me on this tho if i'm unaware of any rivals!))
BUT. doing research on the chipset i've heard and seen all sorts of posts about bad drivers for the qualcomm chipset that was used in the first touch diamond, about how the video performance was terrible, and how they underperformed compared to much older chips!
So........does anyone know whether the video performance of this diamond2 will be better/whether HTC have fixed these issues/whether the qualcomm chipset in the diamond2 is different to the one in the 1st diamond, or if its been updated or what?
basically.......is the phone going to work as expected! i currently have an ipaq 614c with an intel chipset, PXA270. I mean...is the qualcomm chipset in the diamond2 better??
iv'e also heard that the htc touch HD solved a lot of the problems or something because it had better drivers? if this is true.............the specs on the htc website show the touchHD as having a Qualcomm MSM 7201A. Whereas the Htc touch diamond2 has a Qualcomm MSM 7200A. Now..........whats the difference. Is the 7201A the decent correct chipset with good video performance (if all of the above is true), and the 7200 the crappy one??
until i have answers to all these questions.....i won't be able to focus on university
I think the 7201A is the a 7200 with certain features that would infrnge some US patents deactiviated.
Could be wrong?
The MSM7201A is just like the MSM7200, Graphics wise. Only difference is that HTC adds a "driver" for their so-called 3D...
Look into the Blackstone forums to see for yourself about the performance of the MSM7201A chipset. Then decide if you're still going to buy it. (I wouldn't, although i've got a Blackstone)
no MSM7200a is the world version
which include the ability to recoard vga at 30fps and the world 3g frequescies
MSM7201A is the american version which don't include the 30fps video capture because of a patent by broadcom and it use the american 3g frequescies
this is pure chip hardware and dont have anything to do with what
drivers htc provide
Rudegar said:
no MSM7200a is the world version
which include the ability to recoard vga at 30fps and the world 3g frequescies
MSM7201A is the american version which don't include the 30fps video capture because of a patent by broadcom and it use the american 3g frequescies
this is pure chip hardware and dont have anything to do with what
drivers htc provide
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm I live in France, bought a Touch HD, and got a MSM7201a chipste on my device from Orange France. Nothing related to the american market here.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I can do 3G with my phone so...
The last a in MSM7201a and MSM7200a indicates that it's a 528 MHz version, without a it's 400 MHz. I've read that HTC went back to the MSM7200a version because of the poor video recording performance on the MSM7201a chip. So, I guess it may be older, but it's better. That's why both the D2 and the Pro2 get that one.
I guess the chipset could be allright. But HTC hasn't been all that good in providing proper drivers (so it seems).
Although I'm beginning to wonder if the Qualcomm chipsets are actually able to do good 2d and 3d graphics.
For example, when comparing it to a Samsung Omnia with a 624mhz Marvell it's really a world of difference. Ofcourse the Omnia has a smaller resolution (wqvga instead of vga) but it's much much faster than my Diamond (in about everything).
Especially when playing a movie or something with quite a high resolution (divx for example). It's much faster than the Diamond, and usually plays everything without any problem. Even compared to a Diamond with Coreplayer (for the Qualcomm video support).
So.. in short. I would not quite put all my hope on HTC delivering some magical drivers which increase performance a lot.
I rather think the Diamond2 will be much like the original Diamond. But with extra software features like a new TouchFLO 3D and some extra/other hardware features.
Looking at HTC's track record I doubt 'new high performance qualcomm drivers' is not one of the new software features.
edit: Btw, obviously don't take my word on this. I'd say if you are interested in a Diamond2, wait for it to be available and give it a nice test run. Check it out for yourself and see if you like it and think the speed is good enough for you. In the end that's all what counts, if you are happy with your/the device or not!
Like you said , the Omnia is only 400x240 with a CPU clocked 100mhz higher. The msm7201a in the diamond is running slower and has to push X2.74 more pixels! (and 3x more on the wvga phones). it has nothing to do with drivers (the majority doesn't seem to understand that) now regarding video perf that's another story. Coreplayer support HW accel on the Omnia (PXA cpu) but not on the Qualcomm chips (the Qtv mode is only a hack to accel DDdraw overlay) Only
WMP/HTc album support HW accel (and only on MP4 files).
I'm certainly not expecting any dramatic speed enhancements from the D2. And like I said, the difference between the 00 and the 01 is, as I read elsewhere, the video recording speed, not the playback.
Take a look here
http://www.glbenchmark.com/compare.jsp
Clearly HTC devices for some reason perform worse than 3 year old devices. These new devices will be no different as they are based on the same hardware. HTC are a joke.
So whats a good handy with good 2D/3D performance and Windows Mobile on it?
So...
Moby2kBug said:
So whats a good handy with good 2D/3D performance and Windows Mobile on it?
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Click to collapse
I think the toshiba G01 with an 1Ghz Snapdragon CPU,
the HTC "Superstar" with Nvidia chipset
the HTC "Star" with Snapdragon CPU
the Acer F1 with an 800Mhz Snapdragon CPU and an ATI co-processor
Add if I missed one
All of them should run 3D-games etc. well
I would take the F1 from Acer, because it's sleek and elegant designed and only priced at 560€.
take a look: http://translate.google.com/transla...apdragon-cpu.html&sl=nl&tl=en&history_state0=
I've been playing around with Coreplayer by watching TV programs recorded by Vista media centre from a network share. It plays the video at 31 fps and looks absolutely stunning.
Also, screen rotation from landscape to portrait is instantaneous.
I am not too worried about the chipset when I see this performance.
It records video in VGA no problems and plays back no problem - to me, it has no problem with Video
From what I have read the difference between the 7201a and the 7200a is the fab process: 90 vs 65. So the 7201a should be slightly more power efficient (although if it is only the CPU I don't know what the net difference will be).
Why they switched is a mystery. At first I assumed that it was related to their supply side situation: They have plants that can build 7200a and rather than revampt them, they released a few devices that use the 7200a rather than the 7201a.
Ingore that one - the Topaz and Rhodium each have the 7201a. The 7200a was a typo.
pidsw said:
From what I have read the difference between the 7201a and the 7200a is the fab process: 90 vs 65.
...snip...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope That's what the "a" is for:
7200/7201 (not sure it exists): 90 nm process
7200a/7201a: 65 nm process
the 7201(if it exists)/7201a peculiarity is really due to a US patent. and this peculiarity is a downgrade...So if you have the choice between a 7200 and 7201, pick the 7200 if video recording is important to you, else pick randomly (or the cheaper ;-) ).
Whilst it may not be the fastest device in the world, for a 'Joke' company the reviews of the touch diamond2 are pretty good wouldnt you say?
Its a phone by the way!
PS. My touch diamond 2 has the 7200a, it says so in the 'Device information'
I don't have performance problems....movies in full DVD resolution are playing smooth, GPS lag isn't present, as on TD1...so I am copmpletely satisfied..
Actually speaking of GPS, it seems to work much much better on the TD2 than any others i have tried it against (kaiser/touch pro 2) I actually have close to full reception in buildings that the others wouldnt pick up on.
Video playback works great in media player with .mp4 files.
And the whole thing is just really responsive and fast at a stock rom vs the kaiser and touch pro 2.
After having tried out a few ROMs (none recently) I am somewhat disappointed with my Diamond's performance. I am tired of waiting for my menu pages to finally appear after selecting them, I don't feel the urge to keep on trying out new ROMs until one is maybe 10% faster than the original.
Is there any ROM/UI solution that is really fast and immediately makes my phone display what it is supposed to? What about other TF versions/substitutions?
Besides speed, my only requirements are absence of annoying bugs and a slider/hw-buttons-only option to accept/reject calls.
Could you guys please give me a recommendation? What was the fastest solution you encountered? Thanks in advance.
Mmmm....
That all depends on what you call fast. The device will never perform like current devices. The only speed increase I've noticed after trying many, many ROM's is with TF3D2. This is way quicker than the original TF3D shipped with the Diamond, but as for the general day to day operation, none of the ROM's in my opinion, are any quicker than any other.
Sure, chef's comment on lightening this, and speedy that, but at the end of the day, we're stuck with what that crap OMAP processor can handle. Bring on the Snapdragon powered devices!
I remember reading something about the CPU taking all the load for graphics processing. Is there a dedicated GPU and wouldn't appropriate drivers for its usage speed things up? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
the cpu is an MSM7201A which got an ATI Imageon gpu integrated into it
Ooops!
Rudegar said:
the cpu is an MSM7201A which got an ATI Imageon gpu integrated into it
Click to expand...
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Sorry... my apologies! I was thinking of the original Touch! You're quite right, the Diamond has a QUALCOMM processor
Graphics...
Affenpeter said:
I remember reading something about the CPU taking all the load for graphics processing. Is there a dedicated GPU and wouldn't appropriate drivers for its usage speed things up? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe that 64MB of the onboard 192MB are dedicated to graphics processing. Drivers may come in to it, but whether updated drivers would make a huge speed difference is debateable!
Would anyone be willing to run some tests for me please, I am interested in seeing what this device is like but cannot get my hands on one! The claims made earlier on were that the processor in these phones has 3x the graphics processing capabilities as the snapdragon... is this true? do you notice improvement? using divxrockplayer demo player are you able to run 720p mkv (i currently get 7 fps without reencoding for device on my incredible so im curious what that difference is) also what are bench scores from gl bench or Neocore and also mabey even try out some of the bench tests from here...http://www.typhon4android.org/androidbugs/droid2dtest-21/
these devices are really impressive from what ive seen but I cant believe the ARM Cortex A8 1GHz processor is THAT much better....
and to all of you who look at this and have a galaxy right now, im jealous u get to play with it lol.... thanks for any info you can provide
c-pimp said:
Would anyone be willing to run some tests for me please, I am interested in seeing what this device is like but cannot get my hands on one! The claims made earlier on were that the processor in these phones has 3x the graphics processing capabilities as the snapdragon... is this true? do you notice improvement? using divxrockplayer demo player are you able to run 720p mkv (i currently get 7 fps without reencoding for device on my incredible so im curious what that difference is) also what are bench scores from gl bench or Neocore and also mabey even try out some of the bench tests from here...http://www.typhon4android.org/androidbugs/droid2dtest-21/
these devices are really impressive from what ive seen but I cant believe the ARM Cortex A8 1GHz processor is THAT much better....
and to all of you who look at this and have a galaxy right now, im jealous u get to play with it lol.... thanks for any info you can provide
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my Neocore result is 53.5
I suggest that before you post a new topic, please try to search & read other threads first.
You asked about 720p MKVs directly downloaded from the net, yes, the Galaxy S can play MOST of them, we experience problems with variable fps.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=700644