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Hello,
I am having another annoyance with my Tilt. The camera is damn slow. First the on-screen rate is stop-motion like, then the auto focus button takes 2-3 seconds to focus, and finally the photo takes a few seconds more to capture. B that time, the photo opportunity is gone, or I just have a blurry picture.
The 8525 was much faster...
Any ideas? Thanks!
I'm sure it's the new autofocus function that is responsible for the speed. It's not something you find in many cell phone cameras, and gives much better photos for many situations. But yes, the slow speed is a shame.
Well if the picture is blurry, but has great focus....what's the point? lol
Honestly, after spending a few hours tinkering with this phone, the 8125 --> 8525 was a much larger, more needed upgrade. The 8525 did have some caveats, which I was hoping they would fix, but they seemed to just get worse. For example, screen rotation is simply slower on WM6 than it was on WM5. I want a PDA that has Windows capabilities, but without the hiccups that Mobile exhibits. I was hoping the 8925 would be the solution, but I guess I will have to wait another year for a true converged device. Such a shame that a very well made device has to be crippled by a poor operating system. Not saying it's horrific, but definitely could be a lot better.
i've notice the blurry thing...but once you get use to holding it steady the pics come out amazing.
One thing I have found that helps is to use the Camera button to take pictures - You can press the Camera button half way down and let it focus, then press it the rest of the way down to actually take the picture when you want to snap. Doesn't help the whole 'catch it right then' situation, but it does help some...
Thats one of the bugbears with this new phone is the time it takes to snap a pic I know its more a phone than a digital camera but why put a 3mpix camera in there if its not meant to at least equal old digital cameras (casio, olympus, fuji etc etc). I like the extra features of it but not at the expense of it taking 5-6 seconds for people or things to stand perfectly still in order to get that pic
Russ
I have found that the greater the amount of light the quicker it takes pictures.
maryjos said:
I'm sure it's the new autofocus function that is responsible for the speed. It's not something you find in many cell phone cameras, and gives much better photos for many situations. But yes, the slow speed is a shame.
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My 2 megapixel SE K750i from YEARS ago (I had it two years ago as an import phone) had no issues with it's autofocus lens. It also took much better photos.
The camera app is pitifully slow. I've tried shooting a lower res or lower quality and that doesn't change the on-screen display, and yeah the autofocus is crazy slow. I guess we should look to HTC for advice, as it's their camera app.
Yah it's a bummer that it's not that fast, but the phone really is a powerhouse of applications. If this thing was running WM2003 on this processor it would be blindingly fast, but with any power loss, the data would be gone. So far speed is the price we pay to have a device that you can pull the battery out of and not lose any data... When I use my HP hx4700 VGA PPC running 2003, it still blows me away how fast they used to be before this new "persistant storage" feature. I don't know if this would help the camera specifically, but I wonder.
Well, it's damn annoying. I would rather the speed and flashlight than an autofocus lens or 3MP.
JBHorne said:
Well, it's damn annoying. I would rather the speed and flashlight than an autofocus lens or 3MP.
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Agree completely, I had high hopes, the 3MP autofocus sure looked good on paper, but now I just miss the flashlight
i heard that it's because of the software, i think paul from modacco said that cameraware is much better (and i THINK he said that it was faster to take pictures).
Can anyone test this out?
...nice tip
As mentioned in another post. If you turn off the "shutter sound" it seems to respond faster. I've tested and it seems to work form me.
I have also noticed that when I push the OFF button and then turn it back on the camera is much much better.
..........
I've tried all of the previously suggested options and the pics are still blurry.
I have a Nokia 6300 2MP camera phone and it's pics are sharper and better with no blurriness whatsoever.
Even the old Wizard I have is better
This isn't an issue of me having an unsteady hand either, I've been an amateur photographer for many years and have no probs using my old ancient SLRs or new DSLRs, even when snapping with a camera in each hand.
Aeroadster said:
I've tried all of the previously suggested options and the pics are still blurry.
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The lens protector on the battery cover may be scratched or worn (mine is). I get much clearer photos when I take the battery cover off. Other posts describe using certain polishes to restore a clear lens protector.
That's what I get for keeping the phone in my pocket.
I remember reading a post about the fps when taking video. I use the fix when taking regular pictures too, because it appears to speed up the viewfinder as well.
fix:
1. Cover the top half of the phone (where the lens is) with your hand, to decrease the light available.
2. Press the power button to put your device into sleep mode, or whatever it is that they call it.
3. Without moving your hand, press the power button again to wake up the device. This appears to cause the camera software to reinitialize with decreased light settings.
Yeah, it sucks, and yeah, I miss my Tytn camera and led light. Hope this helps!
I've used the new camera app provided by Nadavi (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=355587)
There's three videos all were taken with my AT&T Tilt (Dutty's v3 ROM). Please note that videos are in reduced "youtube" quality, they are significantly better quality in the original file. If you want the originals, I'll upload them somewhere.
First is Ballys' fountains at night. Shot on the street around 11pm:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jqJcmJc8y_s
Second is a video I took walking inside the hotel. The lighting is pretty much correct in this video, it wasn't that dark, but it definitely was dimmer than your usual work/home environment (hopefully, lol):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jZHh1Yh4zAI
Third is the video I took inside MGM Grand Hotel in Las Vegas. This is one of their night clubs. The environment is actually not as dim as video would suggest, it's was little brighter.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=q3HjDFlACNU
IMPORTANT NOTE:
Theve videos WERE NOT posted to show or prove that AT&T doesn't need proper driver. I whole-heartedly believe that IT ABSOLUTELY MUST have drivers and I will fight alongside the community for their release till the end.
THese videos were made to show that with newest Nadavi's camera app Kaiser can take pretty damn good videos and pictures.
I'd also like to ask a question - if Kaiser can take such high-fps videos when there's a bright object in the center - perhaps we need to look further into the issue of how Kaiser's camera is focusing on dim objects. There was a thread somewhere about that.
Wow, that's not too shabby at all. Was the on-screen view as quick as the recorded video while you were taking it?
fps on the screen was the same as the movie's. Not to say that i dont have extremely low fps sometimes. i can make a movie tomorrow with very low fps.... i'm just tring to get a vetter understanding of this
wow
wish my tytn II can do that
Your TyTn2 can do this. All I have that may be related my camera operation is Dutty's v3 ROM and Nadavi's camera app.
My camera is still slow as hell.. Can you tell us in details what you did to make your tilt camera fast under low light condition. i think we would all be really grateful.
which camera app? got a link?
blu3 said:
My camera is still slow as hell.. Can you tell us in details what you did to make your tilt camera fast under low light condition. i think we would all be really grateful.
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Click to collapse
Guys, I didn't do anything. I installed the Nadavi's camera app and changed the settings a little bit. I decreased the brightness to -1.5, reduced sharpness... there's a thread in here somewhere that lists all the good specs for kaiser's camera.
The problem is that I do have the same exact problem you guys are seeing. For example, my office at work is poorly lit - it I point camera at the lamps - i got excellent fps. But when I point down, to say, my table, it reduced to about 2-5 fps. Point at my laptop - again high fps. I will post the video later.
What I'm trying to say is that there's more to this than the drivers, I feel. Why is Kaiser making excellent vids at night with few bright objects, and making horrible video with poorly lit office? As far as I can tell - there's one major difference. In first case we have no-light environment and few bright lights. In second case - whole environment is lit, but pooly, with no objects sticking out. Why is Kaiser trying to compensate in second case, and jsut makes a video in first case?
I will post the low fps video tomorrow..
laakness said:
which camera app? got a link?
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It's in the top post,
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=355587
DarkDvr said:
Guys, I didn't do anything. I installed the Nadavi's camera app and changed the settings a little bit. I decreased the brightness to -1.5, reduced sharpness... there's a thread in here somewhere that lists all the good specs for kaiser's camera.
The problem is that I do have the same exact problem you guys are seeing. For example, my office at work is poorly lit - it I point camera at the lamps - i got excellent fps. But when I point down, to say, my table, it reduced to about 2-5 fps. Point at my laptop - again high fps. I will post the video later.
What I'm trying to say is that there's more to this than the drivers, I feel. Why is Kaiser making excellent vids at night with few bright objects, and making horrible video with poorly lit office? As far as I can tell - there's one major difference. In first case we have no-light environment and few bright lights. In second case - whole environment is lit, but pooly, with no objects sticking out. Why is Kaiser trying to compensate in second case, and jsut makes a video in first case?
I will post the low fps video tomorrow..
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i tried to look for the thread with all the good specs for the camera but no luck... do you remember which thread it was?
Sorry for coming on like an ass but thats the Belagio.
Thats pretty fast!! I have the app but when I record it drags everything. We should have a benchmark thread on all the big rom releases, and compare them with the app and with out, and on the OEM roms.
Here are the specs. Aside from having 3M resolution, and brightness at -1.5, mine are like his:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=361345&highlight=saturation
~~Tito~~ said:
Sorry for coming on like an ass but thats the Belagio.
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Hehe yeah I guess u're right. We visited many hotels that night.. but that's not the point!!! Lol
I usualy have 3-5FPS in video mode, but when I press the power button to get the device to the stand by mode, and wake ipt up after a few seconds the framerate increases to about 20FPS and my videos looks as good as the videos shown in the first post. Without this "trick" my videos are just crap
lol
thanks yyyyyy
but it was to be the slide wake, not pressing the power button again.
that wuz awesum i can make vids again!!!
[email protected] said:
thanks yyyyyy
but it was to be the slide wake, not pressing the power button again.
that wuz awesum i can make vids again!!!
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Could you please explain this a little more clearly?
Ok here's another video from same configuration. Notice the drastic change in FPS when brightness of the object in center changes. It seems that if u point to something bright then FPS goes up, even if its dark around it.
PS: could u elaborate on how u increase FPS by powering down/up the kaiser?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS8CsPmthg0
YYYYY said:
I usualy have 3-5FPS in video mode, but when I press the power button to get the device to the stand by mode, and wake ipt up after a few seconds the framerate increases to about 20FPS and my videos looks as good as the videos shown in the first post. Without this "trick" my videos are just crap
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Click to collapse
Wow this trick actually works. To clarify for those that don't understand: When your in Camera or Video Mode click the power button on your phone and let the phone be off(Standby) for a couple seconds; when you turn it back on by pressing the same button the FPS will increase to about 20FPS.
One problem I found out is that it does not adjust the brightness anymore so everything will sometimes look too dark (at least in my room it did)
EDIT: Now I found a thread that clarify's this better than me: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=365345
The main problem with the TyTynII camera is NOT to do with any missing drivers.
It IS to do with the fact that HTC opted to have an automatically enabled 'Nightmode' when in low-light conditions. If you enable 'Nightmode' on your normal bog-standard video camera, you will get a low frame rate just the same.
HTC need to give users the option to manually select 'Nightmode' so we can then decide ourselves if we want low-framerate/high-lighting or vise-versa..
maybe in a patch or new ROM???
Farsquidge said:
The main problem with the TyTynII camera is NOT to do with any missing drivers.
It IS to do with the fact that HTC opted to have an automatically enabled 'Nightmode' when in low-light conditions. If you enable 'Nightmode' on your normal bog-standard video camera, you will get a low frame rate just the same.
HTC need to give users the option to manually select 'Nightmode' so we can then decide ourselves if we want low-framerate/high-lighting or vise-versa..
maybe in a patch or new ROM???
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Click to collapse
I completely agree. This is a very valid point. Whilst I agree that HTC misrepresented the graphics ability of this device and should be accountable for this, I am noticing an increasing trend to ascrbie most problems with the TyTN2 to the missing graphics drivers.
The danger of doing this is that investigation into other solutions will just tail off and this will go from being a developers forum to a consumers' one.
After all, if the slow IE scrolling had been written off as driver related, there wouldn't be an excellent cab floating out there that could fix it so easily!
Hi,
I seem to have found a way to stop the ridiculous lag on the camera, although I'm not sure this will work for everyone.
I have a non-standard version of the Camera software installed (I think it's the Touch version from somewhere on here - not sure who, I'm pretty new here so please forgive me), but I've noticed that if I start the camera up, then put the device into standby for a few seconds, then turn it back on again, the camera is *far* more responsive, and this is for both still images and for video.
I have no idea why this is - someone more technically intimate with the Kaiser can probably shed some light on it, but it seems to work for me.
The only downside I can see is that it makes the low-light compensation stop working, but in situations with plenty of light there's no difference whatsoever in image/video brightness.
Andy.
Ya, weird how this works. This work around was discussed here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=365345
camera is ugly?
my camera quality is so ugly i have one of the newsest camera software installed. i dont mean the lag or anything i just mean the camera quality is so blurry and unclear i have sharpness on high and styll :S
when i press a camera button to take a picture and it auto focuses before the green thing comes for juss like half a second everything is clear buh then becomes super blurry. any suggestions or is jus broken
Has any one found a compatible 6.1 camera driver? I have been searching and i cannot seem to find one.The Nadavi_HTC_Camera_5_0_4_2915_00 driver i had on 6.0 no longer works.
bucketz said:
Has any one found a compatible 6.1 camera driver? I have been searching and i cannot seem to find one.The Nadavi_HTC_Camera_5_0_4_2915_00 driver i had on 6.0 no longer works.
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What do you need a camera driver for?!
Isn't that driver part of the WM6.1 update?
Ta
Dave
it still seems a little slug-ish, especially when is little lighting. I do a lot of video, so i assumed the 6.1 update would have fixed it, but it still seems the same as before.
bucketz said:
it still seems a little slug-ish, especially when is little lighting. I do a lot of video, so i assumed the 6.1 update would have fixed it, but it still seems the same as before.
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Click to collapse
The Kaiser camera is Very Bad in low light. I was embarrased by an N95 owner when filming my son playing at home.
The drivers made some improvment, but not enought IMO.
Dave
Well I heard that its not a driver issue but more of the CMOS that came with it... Correct me if im wrong (and I hope I am) as that's one of the main points why I bought this phone instead of an N95
I think there is a bug in the camera software meaning its pretty useless in low light. Anyway I came across a workaround that works ok for me. Switch cam on in in low light. Frames per second (FPS) will be pretty low at about 2 to 3 and everything will be blurry. Right hold hand in front of lense (with cam still on) so that everything is black. Switch off phone using power button (brief tap - don't power down completely). Wait a second and with hand still in front of the lense so it is completely covered press power button on again, wait a second or two then remove your hand and hey presto FPS will be about 18.
Try it out
Cheers
Barney
Barneyabz said:
I think there is a bug in the camera software meaning its pretty useless in low light. Anyway I came across a workaround that works ok for me. Switch cam on in in low light. Frames per second (FPS) will be pretty low at about 2 to 3 and everything will be blurry. Right hold hand in front of lense (with cam still on) so that everything is black. Switch off phone using power button (brief tap - don't power down completely). Wait a second and with hand still in front of the lense so it is completely covered press power button on again, wait a second or two then remove your hand and hey presto FPS will be about 18.
Try it out
Cheers
Barney
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lmao, what a fix!! that actually works. thx barney
Lol, I came across the fix in another post some time ago (can't take credit for it) - you would think that there would be a software fix for this! Guess HTC aren't interested - anyway enjoy
cheers
Barney
Barneyabz said:
I think there is a bug in the camera software meaning its pretty useless in low light. Anyway I came across a workaround that works ok for me. Switch cam on in in low light. Frames per second (FPS) will be pretty low at about 2 to 3 and everything will be blurry. Right hold hand in front of lense (with cam still on) so that everything is black. Switch off phone using power button (brief tap - don't power down completely). Wait a second and with hand still in front of the lense so it is completely covered press power button on again, wait a second or two then remove your hand and hey presto FPS will be about 18.
Try it out
Cheers
Barney
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Click to collapse
yeah that's what i do now, but the brightness is much darker. i guess there isn't really any way to fix it, unless some one can create a whole new camera software & driver.
I'm beginning to think its cheap camera hardware, becuz I've read that the diamond has the same problem!
Just to add my opinion, I had the same problem with the phone being slow. I used a few different roms, I've been experimenting a lot over the past month.
In the end, I've reflashed Sleuth's rom. It's absolutely perfect, fast, stable, and best of all (and with reference to this thread).... the camera suffers no lag.
Thoroughly recommended.
camera software
not only kaiser but all HTC and HTC manufactured PPC have this camera issue. i have seen wizard, tytn,tytn2, tilt, touch etc all fail on camera. My old nokia 6600 vga camera takes better pics then wy wizard
There's a software fix, but it doesn't work perfectly with the camera software in the Tilt 6.1 upgrade(no preview). I'm using it with Schap's 4.31 WM6 rom and it does a wonderful job. Try it.
http://rapidshare.com/files/141688095/TyTNII_Photo_Quality.CAB.html
Try turning the flicker adjustment to 60 Hz. That'll (possibly)increase quality as well.
Hi,
Something I've tried to to find the answer to, but so far have been unable to do so - the camera performance has always been terrible on my tytn2. I've tried a range of different roms, but none have made any difference to the camera.
My understanding is that it is important to have a radio that works with the rom you are using, but can I get better camera performance by using a different radio?
Currently I am using "07/10[Super Ram][CHOME][Manilla] Josh's Kaiser Roms+Kitchen "21929 Hybrid Light" - a great rom, and my radio is 1.65.16.25.
I would really appreciate it if anyone can give me any pointers with this or otherwise help me get better camera performance (the tytn2 is an amazing phone, the camera is the only problem I have with it).
Cheers
Moved as not ROM Development...
The camera is just whack anyway unless in ideal light situations.
Typically the camera will either work or not work at all depending on the Radio, unfortunately the Kaiser's camera (and all cellphone cameras in general) is not the greatest in low light so you are pretty much stuck with what you got.
Thanks for the responses. It's not so much the camera performance in terms of picture quality, but the terrible lag when taking pictures - there is a two second or more delay between pressing the camera button and the picture taking. This always results in pictures that are extremely blurred.
Turn off the full press and also the shutter noise...
I tried everything possible with my tytn to improve camera , however it was all pointless since it could not be done.
Well not quite. In my frustration with a few things which aren't perfect in Shifu's latest ROM (hey, it's pretty darn nice for the most part, even M2D is running well for the first time in my experience of over 20 WM6.5 ROM versions, mostly on the Elfin, 3 on this Kaiser), I did some searching for a camera video frame rate solution. Found one. I've already forgotten the link (since reading it this afternoon), but it's so simple there's no need to go looking. Here's the procedure. Works in any lower light situation, as in not broad daylight. Haven't test it it outside in daylight yet, but it might even work there, will find out tomorrow.
1) Open camera application.
2) Put hand over lens to create a black screen.
3) Turn off power. (This part is a bit of a stumbling block for those with slide to unlock or a password active - have to have those turned off for this to work.)
4) Keep the hand (or whatever, doesn't matter so long as it blocks light) over the lens for at least a second.
5) Take off the hand.
6) Press the power button again.
7) Start shooting when you like.
8) Enjoy what looks like 30fps video, much improved autofocus and shutter response times, and unfortunately, darker images. So still not a great low-light camera, but indoors in average conditions or even somewhat dim light it's not bad at all for a phone camera. Took me a few tries to nail down the procedure and be able to reproduce the effect every time, but five minute's practice at most.
Apparently the vast improvement in frame rate and general responsiveness globally in the camera's operation and settings dialogues is over-ridden if one points the camera at a light source or brighter reflective objects. I find it stays stable during a session even if I point it directly at a 20W halogen light from 6 feet away, but your mileage may vary.
Another tip would be to avoid the double-take of the autofocus algorithm. Bloody thing focuses on a half-press, then focuses all over again, blurring out then returning to sharpness, on full shutter press. So either go to half-press shooting, or use the D-pad centre button to shoot pictures and videos, as this is a single-stage switch.
In my case, running Shifu's latest ROM from December and his recommended radio, and just this evening flashing Kaiser-HardSPL-3.56, I find the video frame rate to be about 2 to 3 frames per second without this trick, and well above 20fps with the trick. Awesome. A little bit irritating too, having to do this silly little button sequence thing, but it's better than having to go hunting for my 'real' camera when a video opportunity presents itself and the Kaiser will take less than 10 seconds to get ready, and getting the proper camera will take over a minute of walking and digging and powering on... As has so often been said in web discussions of phone cameras, it's not so much the quality of your best camera that's important in everyday use, it's whether you have a working camera with you that counts. And this little trick makes the camera I ALWAYS have with me a whole lot more usable.
Now, if only there were a way to get Resco Audio Recorder to make clear 2-sided recordings of my calls. Worked like a dream on the HTC Touch Elfin. All I hear is remote, static-distorted voices with this Kaiser. Seems from discussions that this is a hardware limitation. Hope not. And it'd be nice too if the device weren't cranky about my 8GB microSD. Seems a tad unstable at times. Same for considerable numbers of other users, so maybe another hardware limitation? Hope it's drivers, and that some genius presents an update.
GerardSamija,
Yeah that's an old trick but not perfect as tends to dim the light and when hit by a large light flips back to the slow fps another one is to remove the plastic cover on case covering lens.
I gave up using camera unless outside & it's the same issue on Touch Pro even with the built in flash "well light really"
2 Side Voice Recording on Kaiser **WORKS**
Thank you very much for that stylez. I'm reading through the pages of that thread, and while so far the latest CAB there hasn't quite made decent quality two-way recording for my Kaiser, it's considerably improved from what it was yesterday. Nice.
Trying the 'old' camera trick (sorry for re-publishing ancient news - I've only had this Kaiser a few days, so just getting caught up. On testing it this morning I found a number of tries didn't work at all. Not sure why. Then just now I tried it again and it worked fine, though delivering only about 15 to 20fps, not quite smooth. I did back to back tests without and then with the trick, and there was about a tripling of framerate from A to B. Guess I'll just have to keep practicing to get it down solid.
And I probably will remove part of the shielding over the camera lens, carefully. The lens in the body itself has a flat glass cover so no real risk of damage there, as it's recessed behind the battery cover. Occasional cleaning of dust is necessary anyway with a pocketable camera, so this just adds the step of slipping off the battery cover to do that. The phone I have was used for a few months, then left in an office drawer for over a year. Not a lot of wear, but obviously some fine scratching of the coating on the camera lens protective filter. Removing it will improve imaging, and the glass lens cover beneath is about the same as on my old HTC Elfin. That one has held up very well.
I hear windex helps.
ChumleyEX said:
I hear windex helps.
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lol ya i gave up using the camera really, i know im just caring around a big brick, with the advantage that its touch screen and has a keyboard... otherwise its not used much for anything else, unfortunately there are a million other phones that would meet this basic need, though im not getting burned by HTC again or any other phone maker...
I'm getting better at the timing with tricking the camera into responding quickly for stills, and getting 15fps and better almost all the time. This afternoon was fairly sunny here, and I shot a few videos of my son at the playground. Checking them later on my Asus 901 they look quite good. And contrary to many comments saying pointing at bright light kills the effect, I was able to shoot almost directly into the sun without losing frame rate.
Oddly, VLC gives an audio codec cannot be found error. Guess I'm off for yet another codec hunt. Windows 7 has mostly been pretty solid in supporting things like that, but I guess VLC stands apart from the OS in terms of codecs.
Windex? Nah, bit of a rub with a shirt end is fine. It's not a camera for making museum grade images. It's convenient, when I don't want to carry a bulky HD camera with proper optics around with me.