Database Develop

Programs in ROM - vs. installing CAB's

I hope this is not too noob'ish a question:
What is the advantage of
1. installing (most of) your programs in a ROM,
vs.
2 having a rather clean/small ROM, and installing (a lot of) CABS afterwards?
I know 1. is a bit easier.
But is there any difference in performance?

I would say that you can't install anything into the ROM
That's why they use the ROM to fill it with the "cookers" special needs

The Advantage of Rom Installed Software:
You don't have to manually install it after a Hard Reset of Flash. Enough said on that, it saves you some time.
The Disadvantages of Rom Installed Software:
Uses Rom Memory for the original copy of files and Storage memory for anything that must be moved as part of initial setup. So anything that can't simply stay in Windows folder is duplicated elsewhere. For example if you prefer to have your programs in folders under the Program Files Folder then a program that uses 1mb will use 1mb of Rom memory and then when it is copied (remember you can't really delete Rom Files) it will use 1mb of Storage Memory also for a total of 2mb of used memory.
Can't uninstall original version when an upgraded version is avaliable. Sure the Rom file can be marked as deleted so they aren't listed in File Explorer anymore but they are rom files so you don't free-up any space.
More files in your Windows Folder. While the affect this has on our devices isn't 100% clear we do know that it slows opening the windows folder and I believe that it does cause a general slowdown in the device's overall functioning. This is why I prefer to have programs installed to their own folders.
The Advantages of Manually Installed Software:
Saves Rom Memory which increases Storage Memory. Basically since you have everything in Storage Memory you aren't paying extra for anything as nothing took any Rom Memory.
Can uninstall original version when an upgraded version is avaliable. Yes, since everything was installed into Storage Memory you can actually deleted the files to upgrade thus saving Memory.
Fewer files in your Windows Folder. While the affect this has on our devices isn't 100% clear we do know that it speeds-up opening the windows folder and I believe that it does affect the device's overall functioning. This is why I prefer to have programs installed to their own folders.
The Disadvantage of Manually Installed Software:
You have to manually install it after a Hard Reset of Flash. Enough said on that, it costs you some time. UC Compliant Roms can overcome this.

Well, as some cooks report: there seems to be an extra advantage of installing into ROM: everything seems to work a little smoother and faster. Don't know how or why exactly but has to do something with the after-installing process which makes the device less stabile.
Experiments have shown that of you take a full ROM vs. a lite ROM with the extra's from the full ROM installed afterwards, the full ROM is faster and more stabile.
Kyphur: I believe the second red and green titles are wrong? (I believe yoe mean Cab Installed Software?)

One of the reason that loading windows up with files slows everything down is because the are all paged & cached, depending on the settings. Once the device catches up, it's not as noticable.
Storage card Files cannot be paged like the cooked in files. That's why some programs will add .exe & .dll resources to \windows even though themajority of the files are indeed installed to the SD card.

GSLEON3 said:
Storage card Files cannot be paged like the cooked in files. That's why some programs will add .exe & .dll resources to \windows even though themajority of the files are indeed installed to the SD card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't install to my storage card anymore. Why would I do that when I start out with over 160mb of free Storage memory?

kyphur said:
I don't install to my storage card anymore. Why would I do that when I start out with over 160mb of free Storage memory?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I don't either. But also with installing on the device there seems to be some (speed)difference in ROM installing and CAB-installing.

I'm with Kyphur on this one. The less I have in the ROM, the better because software is constantly changing, being upgraded, etc. Also, I find a lot of times my needs vary and I don't require so much "stuff" on my ROMs, so w/ the XDA-Live approach, I have the freedom to only install what I need. I guess it's a matter of preference really. Sure there are technical differences, both they are overcome either way, so it just comes down to what you like better.

pietrucci said:
Experiments have shown that of you take a full ROM vs. a lite ROM with the extra's from the full ROM installed afterwards, the full ROM is faster and more stabile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok ... thanks!
- Do you by any chance have a link to such a benchmark?
- Does that also go for ROMs you cook yourself (with Alex' Kitchen)?

How to actually mark as deleted files in ROM?
Hello, this is an interesting thread, and I also hope you guys know more on this, since you're explaining the concept (and I also searched for a solution, but sorry, didn't find, I might have not used the proper keywords for searching):
kyphur said:
Sure the Rom file can be marked as deleted so they aren't listed in File Explorer anymore but they are rom files so you don't free-up any space.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I flashed Dutty's Official WM6.1 5.2.19716 UC RTM (but which ROM it is, doesn't really matter) as my question is related to "deleting" (or at least marking as deleted) ROM files. My problem is, I want to delete \Windows\Long Send.lnk because I don't like the Comm Manager show up when holding the green Send key during a call, while I'm expecting the phone to go into speakerphone mode like used from many other phones (even my Sagem cordless at home behaves this way). The folks in this ROM's thread suggested to delete that shortcut file (which is what I think they know right if they hadn't omitted the fact that the file is in ROM), but none of the in ROM or read-only attributes can be changed with Total Commander, so I can't "delete" it. Now I understand it's supposed to be just marked as deleted as it is "in ROM", so it is supposed to survive a hard reset, but how can I mark it deleted for the time being (next ROM upgrade for example, or hard-reset)?.

pedefede said:
Ok ... thanks!
- Do you by any chance have a link to such a benchmark?
- Does that also go for ROMs you cook yourself (with Alex' Kitchen)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No I don't have a benchmark of this. But then again: the current benchmarks (SPB and VS Benchmark) aren't that reliable.
I remember one cook from the Hermes device (maybe it was Pandora) made a ultra-lite version with an option to autorun everything afterwards with cabs.
This ROM wasn't as fast and snappy as the original full ROM. I think he quitted developing the ROM further.
Don't know if it's always true that everything's worse installing with cabs, it was just something a remembered from the past.
(by the way: I also install a lot from cabs...)

ChaOConnor said:
I'm with Kyphur on this one. The less I have in the ROM, the better because software is constantly changing, being upgraded, etc. Also, I find a lot of times my needs vary and I don't require so much "stuff" on my ROMs, so w/ the XDA-Live approach, I have the freedom to only install what I need. I guess it's a matter of preference really. Sure there are technical differences, both they are overcome either way, so it just comes down to what you like better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the ROMs change too, and not slower than the softwares

calvinzhang said:
the ROMs change too, and not slower than the softwares
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But flashing every week a new ROM is not for everyone. The possibility to flash once in a while is cool and good enough for lots of people, but doesn't have to become the main occupation

Zoolooc said:
But flashing every week a new ROM is not for everyone. The possibility to flash once in a while is cool and good enough for lots of people, but doesn't have to become the main occupation
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what "UC" is for! Auto Install all of your apps. Just remember to keep the cab files updated.

For me, one of the biggest advantage of full rom is I save a lot of time in doing backup since the files in the rom already.
Another advantage of full rom is they don't need to store any files under \Windows\AppMgr since they can't be uninstall anyway.
To overcome the bad effects of full rom. I tend to consider the following when putting programs in my full rom.
1. File can be run under \Windows
2. Programs that don't change that often, or doesn't need the latest version.

Upgrading to MW6.1. Any problems with back-up?

I plan to update the OS of my TyTN II from WM6.0 to 6.1.
I regularly back-up my files with Sprite Back-up.
My question is, will there be any issues (incompatibility etc) with restoring my back-up files to the new OS?
On that note, will the programs I used to have in WM6.0 (e.g. TCPMP, TouchFlo cube from XDA forums etc) be still compatible with WM6.1? Will I be able to re-install them without issues?
TIA
rigel

Only if you have a new enough version of Sprite Back-up
rigelstuff said:
I plan to update the OS of my TyTN II from WM6.0 to 6.1.
I regularly back-up my files with Sprite Back-up.
My question is, will there be any issues (incompatibility etc) with restoring my back-up files to the new OS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There will be issues unless you get (possibly at cost) a new enough version of Sprite backup. The freebie version included on the HTC CDROM may complain if you try this and only handles restores and backups within the same OS. Someone posted about exactly this issue here on 23/7.... will search for that thread.
***Edit*** Here is that thread but read what it mentions about cross OS back-ups and restores not working with everything (except things like personal folders, contacts etc).
Problem after installing WM6.1
Personally when ever I upgrade an OS on any device I always reinstall software from scratch and check the software apps compatibility with the new OS before doing so at the software publishers website.
***Edit 2*** Changed subject and content to reflect possibly not the very latest version still being OK. Latest post after this one (to check manual) is good advice.

I have Sprite 6 and it is fully compatible with WM 6.1. If you have Sprite WM2005 I THINK you can still do a back up and restore but need to go through a process of getting an upgrade file first. IIRC the Sprite User Guide details the process under 'Advanced Mode'. If not, the Sprite site has it under their FAQs re WM2005.

Hi!
May I join in ?
has anyone discovered any other issues?
I use CE-Star, and check email via an Exchange Server.
Is ugrading to 6.1 really beneficial ?
Back to my searching...
ofiaich

Now that I've thought about it...
Much thanks Flying Kiwi
After thinking about it, and reading that other thread, I'm thinking I don't really need the Sprite backup. I mean, the really important stuff (contacts, e-mail, tasks/schedules/calendar) are already in my laptop, and I could just do a sync after I upgrade to 6.1, right?
Come to think of it, what other stuff exactly is in the Sprite backup file? All the other stuff like music, pictures and whatnot are in my memory card. Will 6.1 recoginse all those files in my microSD? Or do I have to sync all my music from WMP all over again?
I don't mind having to re-install all the other applications. I'm also just wondering if they would also be compatible with 6.1.
Pardon the "amatureish" questions. I'm all new at this
Flying Kiwi said:
There will be issues unless you get (possibly at cost) a new enough version of Sprite backup. The freebie version included on the HTC CDROM may complain if you try this and only handles restores and backups within the same OS. Someone posted about exactly this issue here on 23/7.... will search for that thread.
***Edit*** Here is that thread but read what it mentions about cross OS back-ups and restores not working with everything (except things like personal folders, contacts etc).
Problem after installing WM6.1
Personally when ever I upgrade an OS on any device I always reinstall software from scratch and check the software apps compatibility with the new OS before doing so at the software publishers website.
***Edit 2*** Changed subject and content to reflect possibly not the very latest version still being OK. Latest post after this one (to check manual) is good advice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I'm on a mission to update my ROM, and I've been reading/thinking about it, and I have come to the following conclusions.. Hopefully if I'm wrong on any of them, someone can say so..
I'll backup my SMS and PIM data. PIM data should sync back over, SMS will not, so I'll need to restore that.
Update HardSPL. I don't know what version I have, but I'll put the latest suggested for WM 6.1 (3.56 I believe)
I'll take Sprite Pro, and download a copy of my stock ROM and Radio and put those three files on my SD card, so if all else fails, I can just go right back the way I was. (Right??)
Write down all of my *must have* apps, make sure I have their cabs and put them and licensing info on my SD card for easy reinstall. And what ones I can save settings on or write down the settings, do that so I have it.
Hard reset, install new ROM (I think I'm going with ROMEOS) and Radio (1.65.20.xx I think it was I decided on for GPS, battery etc), hard reset again.
Tilt specific settings will go away, but there's a thread on that by redbandana that's great. So restore some cabs there to fix that back.
Install my minmum required apps and reconfigure them, make sure it's all working, configured, get synced back up with Outlook, etc.. Once that's done, make a backup with Sprite Pro.
Reinstall auxillary stuff, but I'm going to try (my best!!) to minimize this, as it makes a mess and seems to cause problems. Right now my Tilt has no notifications (not Opera related), no LEDs (thus TT7 doesn't work), and some general weirdness sometimes.
Hopefully by doing this I'll have two complete setups.. the WM6.1 setup installed and backed up on the SD card. Also my current WM6.0 setup that I could return to by hard reset, install 6.0 ROM and radio and run backup file if all else fails.
So in the end, I could swap between my current WM6.0 and new WM6.1 without a lot of hassle if I needed to, but hopefully I won't need to.
Hope this isn't considered thread crapping, but seems relevant to most people migrating to 6.1 and are unsure about the process (as I am stll myself)

Any way to make an exact back of current system, before a new ROM install?

Hi all,
Comeing from PC development, I would normally take an image of a system before overwriting with a new one. I'm interested in trying a new ROM, especially WM 6.5.
Is there a way to to an image dump of the Phone before I install a new ROM/OS?
Cheers

http://www.spritesoftware.com/products/sprite-backup-htc-special
It'll cost you $20 but it's probably worth it.

What do you want to backup?
Your current ROM (OS) or your current installed applications?
To back up the ROM, you need to dump your ROM, have it converted to *nbh file. Only then you can restore the original ROM.
To back up your applications I use Sprite Backup, the same that andyturner proposed.

BeeGee_Tokyo said:
What do you want to backup?
Your current ROM (OS) or your current installed applications?
To back up the ROM, you need to dump your ROM, have it converted to *nbh file. Only then you can restore the original ROM.
To back up your applications I use Sprite Backup, the same that andyturner proposed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah ha, now we come the first limit to my knowledge of such devices. Are not the ROM and installed apps one in the same? Can I not take an image of the whole phone system as a whole so I can get back to exactly where I was - i.e altered settings, reg tweaks, and installed apps etc - just like creating an image clone of a PC system (i.e. ghost etc)

swinster said:
Ah ha, now we come the first limit to my knowledge of such devices. Are not the ROM and installed apps one in the same? Can I not take an image of the whole phone system as a whole so I can get back to exactly where I was - i.e altered settings, reg tweaks, and installed apps etc - just like creating an image clone of a PC system (i.e. ghost etc)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OS is in (ROM) Flash memory, the applications are in RAM or on your memory card.
Backup programs like Sprite save only what is in RAM and/or on your memory card, not the OS which is in the Flash memory.
I do not know an application that is backing up both.

What can I delete for files?

Hi I upgraded my 9090 to WB 6.5 from Xplode latest release. I’m really happy with this and everything works fine.
In this phone the memory is only 43.2 Mb, (I have another one, broken but it has 60Mb.) and the upgrade take almost all of this.
My question is what files can I delete to have more space?
Is it possible to install the OS on a memory card?
I’m really happy with this release so I hope there is a solution.
Regard
Ola A

you should downgrade to wm2003 first and repart your storage space, so that the device also has 60mb, also, the rom takes up 32mb in the rom storage, even if there was a rom with nearly nothing inside, just the operating system itself, it would still take up 32mb, because that is the rom size. and it must be in the rom space, there is no way to install it somewhere else.
so, what you can do to gain those extra 16mb, to need to flash wm2003 and then do exactly, what i wrote here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=4706441&postcount=2
in the end, flash wm6.5 back and following that guide, it will run smoothly and fast and you will have slightly more space. still, you will never have more than 60mb of internal storage, unless you pick a rom with a ramdisk, which can offer you yet another 16mb in another partition.

I’m really pleased for the solution...
Please tell me where can I find how I go back to wm2003?
You had in your mind to do the repart for the storage space as in the link you suggest?
Wye can’t I do the repart in WM 6.5?
The download for repart_doc.exe and the second file have download problems, you couldn’t have some down load alternatives...?
How can I install the OS on the Memorycard?
Regard
Ola A

1. for the downgrade to wm2003:
1.a go to firmware.atspace.com/blueangel.html
1.b look for a firmware to match your device, it doesn't matter much, but it should be either an english rom or one in your native language, i guess english would be best though.
1.c Important! Extract the rom, so you have a folder, containing files like nk.nbf, ms_.nbf, baupgradeut.exe and so on. don't just start the exe you downloaded!
1.d download maupgradeut_noid, if the rapidshare download from the link above doesn't work, search the forum for "Chef_Tony Ruu", you will find several mirrors.
1.e download "repart_doc" and "xda-unlocker.cab" also from the link or search the forum, i uploaded it many times
1.f put the maupgrade in the same folder as the nk.nbf and all the other stuff from the wm2003 rom
1.g hard reset your device by pressing reset+power and camera+record, in the menu appearing set
Enable Kitl No
Format Storage Yes
Clear Registry Hive Yes
and confirm with the mail button
1.h after the device started, switch it off and remove the sim card and sd card
1.i put your device into bootloader mode by pressing power+record+reset, the display shows Serial V2.0x, where x is a number from 5 to 7
1.j start MaUpgradeut_noID and flash the device
1.k perform a wm2003 hard reset by pressing power+reset
1.l wait for the extrom to install and the following soft reset
1.m proceed with the manual from the link i gave you.
2.yes, the reparting of the useless extrom partition is, what i had in mind, it slows your device down and is just a collection of useless cab files with carrier customizations like dialer skins and wallpapers, that are installed after a hard reset in wm2003
3. it cannot be done in any os but wm2003, that is what makes this partition so useless, it is just not accessible
4. for downloading those files, if rapidshare doesn't work for you, as suggested in 1. use forum search and look for the file name, together with my name, and you will find several direct download links from the forum.
5. there is absolutely no way, the os can be installed from or to the memory card, in fact, while installing the os, the sd card may not even be inside the device, it can lead to serious damage of the device. like i explained in my earlier post, the rom does not take away any usable space anyway. you have 60mb of storage space for programs and files and 32mb rom space for the rom. if your rom is 20mb, then it is still filling up your 32mb of rom space and your storage will still be 60mb. if you have a rom with a lot of stuff inside, that is really taking up 32mb, you still have 32mb rom and 60mb storage.
that is why it is even better to take a big rom with lots of programs inside, because that way you really save space... since you don't need to install those programs in your storage space.
with best regards
Chef_Tony

A big thank you for your support. I’m now going to try this out.
--------------------------
Three hour later.
Yes, now is everything done. Some hard to find WM2003 file but at last... (They who were in your link weren’t there anymore.)
Now the memory is big and clean. All my apps installed...
A happy new year
Ola A.

Upgraded Qtek 9090

Well, I'm new here in the forum, come and ask for help from everyone, because I tried everything, and frankly I'm kinda tired of reinstalling everything without being able to update my QTEK WM6, when he ta with WM3 SE, follow the tutorial here, but always get stuck at the run the update because it does not show the version being installed and not installed on the device, therefore I can not continue.
Sorry for bad English!
I await help! = \

Look oque appears when I try to go anyway!
Apparently the software to using is not appropriate for the QTEK9090 WM3 SE.

well, i would guess, either your device is not in bootloader mode or your activesync is not successfully killed, also have a look at these detailed instructions and make sure, you are performing every step in that order, because people seem to reduce the upgrading to 5 steps and miss out on other important steps and then wonder, why they got close, but could not actually upgrade. this should help you:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=4706441&postcount=2

Well, I stopped at the next part because I was concerned:
"
6. Click "Format now!"
7. Soft reset
8. Go back to the Extrom Tools
9. Lock "
10. "Hide"
11. Now proceed with "Upgrading to WM5 / 6 device" "
Format does not reset the contents of some memory? XD
And so, my device is already unlocked, just that I do not know if this release is the same as reported in the tutorial, because the release did was running a program, and only, I put no chip here and recognize.
Well these are my doubts before proceeding, take better now than screw up =).
And thank you for your help buddy!

And type, that WM6 signature, it is recommended?
Thanks =)

i don't understand your problem with that.
that part is about the extrom, and whether you format the extrom during using the device does not matter, because it is only used after a hard reset. the extrom is a special hidden partition that contains cab files, provided by your carrier or the phone manufacturer, that are supposed to customize or brand the device after the initial start. since that is never used again and only contains crap in the first place, it is recommended to delete that partition and merge it to the storage space, to be able to install more stuff.
also, you should not be afraid to format any partition, because when you flash a new rom, you format the entire device anyways. if there is still stuff, you don't want to lose, you should make a backup asap.
also, in case that was misunderstood, that unlocking has nothing to do with sim-lock or anything.

Hmm, then this procedure is only if I want to increase the storage space? I could skip that part?

you could skip that part, but why would you want less storage space. you know, the gigantic ram partition is not there in any build above wm5, you only have 43mb of storage space, why not make it 60mb, it is more. that extrom partition cannot be accessed from a higher operating system, there is no advantage in keeping it. it could even result in problems, when installing the newer roms' extroms, because they are supposed to be on the sd card and for some people, they don't work, if they didn't take care of the old extrom first. and now is the only opportunity to do it. once wm 6.5 is flashed and you realize, you're running out of storage space, after installing internet explorer, office, .net framework, maybe another browser and your pim data, maybe an mp3 ringtone, you'd have to go back to wm2003, increase the storage size, and then flash wm6.5 back and install everything all over again.
so, extrom resizing:
PRO
+ significantly more space
+ faster running device
+ no problems with installing wm6.5 extrom
+ no old baggage which you cannot use
+ you will probably do it anyway, now it takes 3 minutes to do it
CON
- no downside here
i see that since you are a rather new member and probably don't know, what every little step is for, but i put that in the tutorial for a purpose, so people don't make the same mistake i made: to skip that and go to wm6 directly, i regretted it and had a lot of work going back and clearing out the mistakes done before. this is a one time only process, whenever you decide to flash another rom, you will only need to do the "upgrading a wm5/6 device part", which will take about 10-15minutes overall. also there is no need to worry, this process is completely reversible, whenever you feel uncomfortable with your custom rom and for any reason you want to get back to the factory defaults, you can do that, so you have nothing to lose here
i hope these were enough reasons for you to keep going and follow procedure

I deeply appreciate your explanation, now I just wait for rapidshare free slots that I could download the necessary files and try again an update, yes, I'm afraid of running out of equipment, I'll try it again ^ ^.
When I start the procedure again and any problem I may have or if God willing I can update I've been posting here.
Again for the help

How can I tell you, thank you for your explanation was fine, because I almost died here at the time that tava installing WM6, gave the fall of light, more then I redid the procedure and installed by a faster ^ ^.
Chef_Tony, taking advantage, you recommend me some programs or games? ^ ^
And to make the topic too, you understand the Audiovox smartphone? It is similar to the QTek, a client of mine has this machine that only the poor ta destruidinho, the touch and cracked his ex-owner tried to install WM6 on the device as it is not possible and now the device does not leave the screen colors, enter the serial screen and everything, only that it will be to recover from that?
Sorry for the inconvenience.
The model is the Audiovox PPC 6600.
Anyway, thank you for all patience and clear ^ ^!
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Interestingly, you can change the items on the Home screen? Why is a lot of things that do not use and would be interesting to place objects that use it '-', I liked the format, just do not like the items, just wanted to change items xD