Hi, this should be very nice game, but there is one little problem - Diamond can not run it. Touch Pro has same problem. I must say, that I am very dissapointed that one of the most powerfull device on market can not run these games. Old TyTN 2 can run it OK.
It is not a case of the Diamond not being up to the grade, but rather that this old game has 4x as less pixels as that required of the Diamond. C'mon, you can do better than that can't you! How about Call of Duty 2? Try that out...
what do you expect? its one of those java ports...and java ports are crap. we want more wm native apps
Well, yes and no. Worms space oddity is not only one game that does not work on Diamond, or that works bad. Duken nukem 3D worked on my MioA701 (524MHz, QVGA) with almost 100FPS, but diamond? Barely 25. And no, it is not becouse of VGA, the game doesent run in VGA, but i QVGA, just resized to fullscreen. And this can not take 4 times more CPU power to do.
yes and no: the diamond still has 4x pixels to render than your crappy QVGA pda, and you said it all 100 / 4 = 25 fps
Well, but you must admitt, that there is difference between just resing image to VGA, and rendering image to VGA. And yes, i agree, if you render to VGA, than it is 100/4 = 25, BUT if you just resize picture to VGA, than it is not that bad. One example for all - VSBench. VSBench is resized to VGA on diamond, but it still does about 2800 points, like similiar devices, becouse the aplication is QVGA native. But SPB benchmark has 1600 points, which is 4 times less that similiar QVGA devices. So, there is only one solution - SPB is actually rendering to VGA, but VSBench is just resized - like other native QVGA games. And there should not be any performance loss.
Related
Does anyone know if these are properly implemented through the APIs? I am aware that the HTC home screen supposedly uses the 3D chip, but nowhere says how.
If it is properly implemented it would be very interesting for developers and gamers alike.
Judging by peoples experiences with DirectDraw at least that API is not accelerated. OpenGL ES is though and Direct3D is probably mapped to Open GL ES calls and would also be accelerated (with some form of, probably slight, performance penalty).
There are two threads in this subforum that are asking for benchmark results from the Diamond but so far none of the current owners seem interested in providing anything.
ill do a benchmark if its easy to do, what program do i use?
jkr284 said:
ill do a benchmark if its easy to do, what program do i use?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.spbsoftwarehouse.com/products/benchmark/??en
http://int13.net/gxmark.htm
http://classic.pocketgear.com/software_detail.asp?id=8287
As far as easy goes you just run the application basically.
Thanks
Ive been trying to run a full spb test on the diamond at default settings and on battery power. It didnt like the word test (seemed to stick at about 90% of opening the alice word doc then looped forever!) and also didnt like the pocket internet explorer test (well it opened opera browser for the test, and didnt like it for some reason!), just running it now with buit in application tests disabled.
Ok First Heres the SPB Benchmark results with "Built in Applications Test" Disabled:
- <benchmark-results>
- <info>
<platform-name>HTC Touch Diamond P3700</platform-name>
<device-name>HTC Diamond</device-name>
<start-date>06.05.2008</start-date>
</info>
- <main-tests>
<fs-largefilewrite>566.700000</fs-largefilewrite>
<fs-largefileread>107.900000</fs-largefileread>
<fs-largefilecopy>679.800000</fs-largefilecopy>
<fs-manyfileswrite>5897.500000</fs-manyfileswrite>
<fs-manyfilesread>429.300000</fs-manyfilesread>
<fs-manyfilescopy>4549.900000</fs-manyfilescopy>
<fs-dirlisting>1334.200000</fs-dirlisting>
<fs-db>756.900000</fs-db>
<grf-ddb>6.670000</grf-ddb>
<grf-dib>25.095000</grf-dib>
<grf-gapi>5.390000</grf-gapi>
<misc-zip>2660.000000</misc-zip>
<misc-jpeg>417.600000</misc-jpeg>
<misc-arkaball>8.140500</misc-arkaball>
<misc-mflops>3578.800000</misc-mflops>
<misc-mops>1001.700000</misc-mops>
<misc-mwips>7229.000000</misc-mwips>
<misc-memcpy>8.449000</misc-memcpy>
</main-tests>
</benchmark-results>
GXMark produced a white screen! i had to reset the device! No Idea whats up there!
Pocket Pc Mark wouldnt do a run on the graphics test, it got to 6/8 test and then locked, had to reset again, sorry!
Thanks for your efforts!
The SPB results are actually very poor unfortunately. Almost too poor, did you have lots of stuff running in the background or anything like that?
Apart from the pure CPU tests (including decompressing a JPEG and a ZIP file which both are very CPU bound as well) both filesystem operations and graphics operations are a lot lower (or at best equal in some cases) to what you would see on a Kaiser for an example..
I think at least we can say with certainty that the GAPI and GDI/DDI drivers are not any better than on the Kaiser, very minor boost due to faster memory and CPU sped can possibly be achieved but that's nothing compared to real hardware acceleration.
I really do hope that the next version of Windows Mobile and the included APIs andate some sort of all around graphics acceleration Video hardware acceleration seems to much like a tack on in current WM and the Diamond seems to be the ultimate proof of that.
the only things running are the default progs in the background like touchflo etc. something has been improved as ackys breakout and bejeweled 2 run beautifully in vga aswell, they ran like **** on my touch cruise (slowdown and stutters) in reality this phone ****s all over the cruise performance wise in games and general use.
One thing that was better on the cruise is the 3g reception which i could get inside my house but not with the diamond.
Tomtom6 displays real nice in vga also but takes a longer time plotting routes, much longer!
Try a psx emulator and see if it runs :]
"I really do hope that the next version of Windows Mobile and the included APIs andate some sort of all around graphics acceleration Video hardware acceleration seems to much like a tack on in current WM and the Diamond seems to be the ultimate proof of that."
it would still require drivers even if ms provided them like in normal windows
doubt ms would pay the coins htc dident
Can anyone with a Diamond please run the Futuremark benchmark as it does an open gl test as well as 2d and more, thanks
http://www.futuremark.com/download/spmarkjavajsr184/
I downloaded the suite (clicked all the tests)
Ran it and heres what i got:
http://service.futuremark.com/orbmobile/projectdetails_spmarkjavaweb.jsp?projectId=23157&projectType=20
Looks like it didnt want to do the 3d test......
This is discouraging. Most of the tests don't run, and those that run give really low results? Sounds familiar. I really don't want this to be yet another great hardware with lackluster software support...
Rudegar said:
it would still require drivers even if ms provided them like in normal windows
doubt ms would pay the coins htc dident
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes of course it would need drivers
but current Windows Mobile seems to be built with the assumption that there will be no specialized graphics hardware (so everything is build to run in software)
desktop windows is built on the assumption that there will be hardware acceleratio for 3D, video playback and even the GUI, I'm hoping windows mobile 7 sports a similiar approach, thus "forcing" manufacturers who want to ship even baseline WM devices to support their hardware with graphics drivers
also something with the underlying framework in windows mobile seems off when it comes to hw accelerated graphics, as I mentioned earlier it feels like a tack on that wasn't planned in the first place
thus even when we have devices with hardware and drivers it still not universally applicable (check the diamond for a perfect example, it has some level of hardware acceleration but it's not general and system wide for whatever reason)
so what I am hoping for is a standardized, general system wide assumption that future WinMo will have graphics hardware just the same as any PC today has some level of hardware acceleration (in effect making it close to impossible for companies like HTC to ship devices with hardware but without drivers)
jkr284 said:
I downloaded the suite (clicked all the tests)
Ran it and heres what i got:
http://service.futuremark.com/orbmo...arkjavaweb.jsp?projectId=23157&projectType=20
Looks like it didnt want to do the 3d test......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for running the test
Radeon123 said:
Thanks for running the test
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Pleasure!
To everyone worrying about gaming and movie performance i wouldnt worry at all,
The latest coreplayer has no lag in high quality films
Ive tried loads of astraware native vga games and they run flawlessly, with soe tweaking as shown on other threads the interface is now ery quick. I wouldnt bother stressing yourselves over the performance as its stellar for the size of the device.
jkr284 said:
My Pleasure!
To everyone worrying about gaming and movie performance i wouldnt worry at all,
The latest coreplayer has no lag in high quality films
Ive tried loads of astraware native vga games and they run flawlessly, with soe tweaking as shown on other threads the interface is now ery quick. I wouldnt bother stressing yourselves over the performance as its stellar for the size of the device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
640x480 movies? (Coreplayer played those fine up until the latest Kaiser ROM)
3D games or regular 2d ones? (basically all astraware games run just fine on my tytn ii for an example)
I'm not trying to rain on your parade, it just seems as if the Diamond is basically missing the performance some of us thought it to have. (Though that's not to say that the performance is poor)
UPDATE ON CALL OF DUTY: Works absolutely awesome, NOT using minimal settings, i was able to play pretty well. NOTE: Tytn2 and Touch Cruise was NOT able to play due to heavy lag even with minimal settings. Game was perfectly fine, with except with just a small little, not lag, but looks like the rendering was a bit slow as i looked around, when i used hardkeys and stylus at the same time. NOTE: ALL pdas lag in gaming when using hardkeys and joystick at the same time. However, it was minimal, and call of duty was enjoyable to say the least. SO yes, it DOES have graphic accelerators. Proper benchmarks will be done when i have proper time.
UPDATE. SPB benchmark seems to hang. cant run it. hangs at testing word document.
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/711698
Baronic said:
UPDATE ON CALL OF DUTY: Works absolutely awesome, NOT using minimal settings, i was able to play pretty well. NOTE: Tytn2 and Touch Cruise was NOT able to play due to heavy lag even with minimal settings. Game was perfectly fine, with except with just a small little, not lag, but looks like the rendering was a bit slow as i looked around, when i used hardkeys and stylus at the same time. NOTE: ALL pdas lag in gaming when using hardkeys and joystick at the same time. However, it was minimal, and call of duty was enjoyable to say the least. SO yes, it DOES have graphic accelerators. Proper benchmarks will be done when i have proper time.
UPDATE. SPB benchmark seems to hang. cant run it. hangs at testing word document.
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/711698
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would love to see a youtube video of COD on the diamond. Can you please post. I would really appreciate it.
I have a navi software that doesn't support VGA but works fine in Diamond with samll window. How I can make this windows biger (fullscreen)?
Thank you.
The non vga software I have gets stretched automatically full screen by the OS. ie: I installed a really old game snood, which came out long before vga was thought of. As well as a whole host of others. The only thiing I noticed so far that does not stretch is the logo of TomTom at the startup, it is only filling about half the screen on my diamond but on my kaiser it fills it completely, however the software itself works full screen.
citats said:
The non vga software I have gets stretched automatically full screen by the OS. ie: I installed a really old game snood, which came out long before vga was thought of. As well as a whole host of others. The only thiing I noticed so far that does not stretch is the logo of TomTom at the startup, it is only filling about half the screen on my diamond but on my kaiser it fills it completely, however the software itself works full screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is tom tom stretched, or is it using the full VGA resolution? Can you tell by comparing the jaggedness on lines with another qvga device?
I would love to know if there is a way to get the original HTC home to display properly with a VGA device. I have found VGA versions of the original HTC home and it fits fine but it is VERY small compared to QVGA. Any way to get this right with VGA so its the same size as QVGA but ALOT sharper with VGA RES..? Was kinda hoping HTC would release a 100% working VGA version of it when the VGA devices started coming out for them but that would be too good to be true..
someone1234 said:
Is tom tom stretched, or is it using the full VGA resolution? Can you tell by comparing the jaggedness on lines with another qvga device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TomTom looks like it is using full VGA all text and roadways look quite smooth no jaggies.
I would think TomTom was designed for VGA but he spash screen is qvga.
On the other hand I have Zuma and it looks like it has been interpolated to get vga out of qvga.
citats said:
TomTom looks like it is using full VGA all text and roadways look quite smooth no jaggies.
I would think TomTom was designed for VGA but he spash screen is qvga.
On the other hand I have Zuma and it looks like it has been interpolated to get vga out of qvga.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thnaks for this information
I see, but my software not TomTom. Anyone can help!!:S
Still, no one has tried to make the original HTC home work right with VGA?? I do mean the correct size that is. It would look SOO NICE to see this home screen in all its glory in VGA at full size dont you think..?
Hi, I think that almost everyone want to play some game on his phone. So, I will test some of them, and post here results, and problems. Most of all, I test demos or freeware games, so actually full game results may by different. I hope this will be helpfull for you.
ofcourse it will be helpfull
thx
So, I prepared some games to test, I will test them later becouse I am still serching info about two PDAMill games. These games are Snails Reloaded (just QVGA) and Anthelion 2 (QVGA and VGA version). For some reason, these games runs much slower on Diamond than on brother´s Asus P535 when its CPU is set to 200MHz! Yes, 200MHz outperform in these games our 528MHZ one. I assume that this is due to incompatibility with WM 6.1. But it is strange. On PDA Mill site, they say that WM 6 is supported. Maybe WM 6.1 or combination of WM 6.1 + VGA is the problem. I dont know. Yes, you can run these games, but at speed of snail. Firts I thought that maybe transform from QVGA to VGA is the problem, but Anthelion 2 has VGA version too, and this VGA version was as laggy as QVGA version. If you think that Anthleion is 3D game, and Diamond maybe just cannot handle 3D, it is wrong. Even menu in this game is stupidly laggy, concretelly transtions in menu. And Snails Reloaded act just like Anthelion 2, and they are just 2D game. But I forgott that VS Bench on our devices is very good 2500+ points, that this isnt due to slow Diamond CPU. (VS Bench of Asus P535 is in 520 MHz mode 2300 points and on 200 MHz mode only about 1000 and it still outperform Dimand) .
So, for now I can say that you can play these games, but prepare yourself for laggy game experience.
Next game I tried is Duke Nukem 3D - this is even worst - becouse you can not even run it. After loading, screen goes black, and you must restart it. This is bad news, becouse I liked Duke Nukem 3D on PC, and I played it a lot on my previous WM 5 phone. This game doesent like VGA or WM 6.1.
And for now last one: Call Of Duty mobile. This nice 3D Game runs great, you will get even better framerate than previously mentioned Asus P535 in 520 MHz mode. Still, this game is not smooth, but definattely playable. First game which runs on Diamond slightly better than on P535 (520MHZ adjustable CPU).
More games speed and copatibility info will be here soon.
Nice work keep it up , may want to put them in a list format , with links to the games as well
For ref Age of Empires Gold Edition, Works fine on the Diamond
One question: Where can I buy a licence key to have a full verion of Age of Empires Gold Edition?
Fred
Yes, I know. For now, I will add games just as new replys, but I will make some list in future, when more games will be tested. I can add links, if you want, but remember that most apps I am testing are demo versions, but some freeware will be there too.
Has anyone tried bejeweled 2 yet? I don't wanna install mines until my screen protector arrives!!
best game ever bejeweled 2
I Have Working:
My Little Thank - Just some problems to acess the register screen but works
Solitaire City - Works Fine
SkyForce Rel. - Does not work
Skyforce - Does not work
Bejeweled 2 - Works
Rocket mania - Works
Tradewinds 2 - Works
Insane Aquaium Deluxe - Works
Dielmann said:
One question: Where can I buy a licence key to have a full verion of Age of Empires Gold Edition?
Fred
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IIRC, you cna't - it's long been abandoned.
Siruss said:
SkyForce Rel. - Does not work
Skyforce - Does not work
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you contact the developer? It's working just greta on all my other VGA devices, incl. WM6.1 ones - that is, it must be incompatible with the Qualcomm chipset.
Double post - bad connection - sorry
Pocket Heroes - works great
Leomnade Inc.- works but can't get pass the beginning menu
Tombraider - seems to work, as I can't get pass the menu because of missing hardware buttons
Lemmings 1.0 - the screen is black but I can hear the music
Asphalt 3d - runs on 1/5 of the screen
Worms - work great but luck of hw buttons (can't shot, jump and so one)
Houseofdead 3d - works but slow
Poket Quake - shows menu but the game is blank window
Transport Tycoon - stucks on loading screen
koven said:
Asphalt 3d - runs on 1/5 of the screen
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
is that 3D_Asphalt_3.jar ? under Jblend v3.2.8 20061016c, it ran full screen on VGA; see the compatibility chart in my MIDlet Bible.
no it's PPC game (*.cab)
Hi Pokvitek, May be the reason for not working / poorly working games on Diamond compared to other (older) VGA devices is that the Games are developed for Open GL processing whereas our Diamond has seperate Qtc processing (the 3D accelerator chip)...
Can anyone put more light on this??
Anyone use or know of a good NES emulator. I would kill to have mario, master blaster, etc on my diamond.
thanks
If anyone would like to have an really good Lemmings Port, look here:
CAB: http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~zeppenfe/files/PocketLemmings.cab
If problems occured with moved grafics or similar, then exchange this .EXE: http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~zeppenfe/files/LemmingsCE.exe
YouTube Movie: http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=11_bG6--h6U
Level AddOns ZIP: http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~zeppenfe/files/LemPack_Custom.zip
Thats the first Port ive seen, that leans on the original game, with full levels from "Lemmings" and "Oh No More Lemmings". All you really need, is the "main.dat" file from your (hopefully ) original Lemmings...
I dont know, I personally think that Open GL is not the issue. Anyway, some games dont work due to WM 6.1, some due to VGA, and some due to problem that nobody knows. Qualcomm chipset has ARM 11 operation CPU, so this should not be problem. About Skyforce, I have not a solution, but an idea. I found something interesting. We all know spb benchmark, and with new ROM Diamond has in graphics about 1600 points. This bench can not use Hardware acceleration, so this must be result of just 528 MHz Main CPU. Now, point is that i thought that Diamond grapics index is low due to WM 6.1, but I found other phones running WM 6.1, and they had graphics index about 3000, with 400MHZ CPU. So, I was sad, becous it seemed that Diamond is just piece of crap. THEN I found something interesting, graphic index of IPaQ 214 - WM 6.1 VGA device, with 624 MHz Marvell Monahan 310 CPU. His grphic index was about 1600 too. So, device of this strenght, like IpaQ 214 definnetelly is, should outperform Diamond. So, I guess, that there is something. I dont know what, but I am sure that is.
koven said:
Pocket Heroes - works great
Leomnade Inc.- works but can't get pass the beginning menu
Tombraider - seems to work, as I can't get pass the menu because of missing hardware buttons
Lemmings 1.0 - the screen is black but I can hear the music
Asphalt 3d - runs on 1/5 of the screen
Worms - work great but luck of hw buttons (can't shot, jump and so one)
Houseofdead 3d - works but slow
Poket Quake - shows menu but the game is blank window
Transport Tycoon - stucks on loading screen
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WORMS: there is a patch available to assign the sound up and sound down buttons to jump and backflip. then evrything works
NES emulators do not work properly because the lack of hardware buttons. the onscreen buttons do not work very well.
Can you people tell me where i can find java game for Diamond? i try to use those for n95 but it uses only 1/4 of the screen.
im afraid most javagames are lowres, and therefore will showup very small..
never had a good experience with javagames on pda's
try nokia N80 java games its 352x416
it will take bigger size of your screen (not full screen but i little bigger than 240x320)
I've searched the forums and cannot find an answer...
My old e800 had a program called ResFix that would put it in QVGA mode. Great for some programs that get very laggy on a VGA device. I see that another HTC device has a program called RealVGA that does the same thing. I don't think it works on Raphael. Is there a utility that does this for the Fuze or Touch Pro?
Yes there is, it's calles wvgafix3. It only supports switching between wvga, vga and sqvga though.
Hope this helps
Thanks!
I saw this program. I was focused on finding something that would switch to QVGA for playing my old games. I've had windows PDAs since they were called a Palm PC. I think Microsoft got sued for that one. Anyway, since you specifically mentioned it, I tried it instead of passing it by. It works great. My games play smoothly in square VGA were they get laggy in real vga. Very odd. It's always been that way on VGA, though. I had a Toshiba e800 on PPC 2003 and it behaved exactly the same way.
Everything is a bit "squished", but it plays very smoothly and that's good enough for me!