Hi,
First, some background informations (skip this if you don't care) : as a Touch HD owner and java developer, I tried to develop some J2ME GUI, with 3D, etc...But the embedded JVM (Esmertec) is really terrible : poor performances, buggy (ellipse drawing function)... unusable for (let's say) 3D GUI
Looking at the MSM7201, I saw that this processor include Jazelle technology, allowing to execute java bytecode "on-the-chip" (so, hopefully, really fast). But I guess that the included Esmertec JVM doesn't use it (maybe Esmertec didn't buy the license to ARM).
In a wonderful world, Sun would have provided an optimized Jazelle-enabled JVM for WM but... it's a cruel world.
Looking at Jazelle pages at http://www.arm.com/markets/mobile_solutions/armpp/21938.html, I saw that the BenQ E72 is
WM6.1
has a Jazelle JVM
So I'm starting to hope... Is it possible to dump the BenQ E72 ROM, get the JVM and use it on the Touch HD ?
After all, on the processor side... it's compatible ! And the graphic part is surely implemented through WM API.
Other recent phone using jazelle technology is listed in the right column at http://www.arm.com/products/multimedia/java/jazelle.html
Any thought is welcomed...
Wow, this sounds very interesting.
exciting and really interesting...
Hoping it will fix our problems with Java-Esmertec...
Mate, Jazelle is for ARM processors.
HTC is using Qualcomm platform and I don't think any Jazelle HW is included.
Where have you seen that?
sosojerk said:
Mate, Jazelle is for ARM processors.
HTC is using Qualcomm platform and I don't think any Jazelle HW is included.
Where have you seen that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But the MSM7xxx are ARM...
LePoulpe said:
Looking at the MSM7201, I saw that this processor include Jazelle technology, ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sosojerk said:
Mate, Jazelle is for ARM processors.
HTC is using Qualcomm platform and I don't think any Jazelle HW is included.
Where have you seen that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its ARM processor..
hi????
hi ,this is
The sad thing is there is no proper Java (both ME and SE) support for Windows Mobile. Esmertec is the best you can have - its the only supporting M3G but only in software mode. You can easily forget JSR239 (OpenGL ES) support on WM. This would be technically possible with J9 because it supports JNI. You could try to port JOGL or LWGL for J9 but it takes time.
You can try MySaifu - it is in its early stages (for a long time now ) and it tries to be full Java SE JVM with hw accelerated Java3D. But it is very unstable and you propably will encounter many problems with running simple Hello World for it.
On the bright side the JavaFX virtual machine based on HotSpot recently hit WM. It will have support for hardware acceleration and currently you can run midlets on it in software.
I did not try hard but quick google search on BenQ E72 does not confirm that it has JVM with Jazelle support. The link you provided also does not confirm this. Sorry for destroying your hopes.
Related
These are some of the Kaiser's internals.
Here you will find the diagram of it:
DIAGRAM
This is the page I found this on:
Qualcomm MSM7200Chipset In Kaiser
Lemme know what you guys think!
interesting that its chip supports video out but they did not add it in the hardware.
magnamar said:
interesting that its chip supports video out but they did not add it in the hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, the chip in the 8525/TyTN supported gps but did not support it.
the mogul has the 7500 chip which supports the same as the kaiser but the device doesnt support it all.
KaiserLinux said:
These are some of the Kaiser's internals.
Here you will find the diagram of it:
DIAGRAM
This is the page I found this on:
Qualcomm MSM7200Chipset In Kaiser
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting - this chipset has HSUPA support by default, but Kaiser doesn't support it (or at least, HTC does not confirm this). Does it mean that Kaiser has limited edition of that chipset, or maybe HSUPA will become available with future ROM updates from HTC?
eva_d said:
Interesting - this chipset has HSUPA support by default, but Kaiser doesn't support it (or at least, HTC does not confirm this). Does it mean that Kaiser has limited edition of that chipset, or maybe HSUPA will become available with future ROM updates from HTC?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am sure this has to do with the carriers network supporting this bandwith upload feature.
iservealot said:
I am sure this has to do with the carriers network supporting this bandwith upload feature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, everything will turn out once Kaiser will hit the shelves and people start using it, and sharing (hopefully) their thoughts about it...
eva_d said:
Interesting - this chipset has HSUPA support by default, but Kaiser doesn't support it (or at least, HTC does not confirm this). Does it mean that Kaiser has limited edition of that chipset, or maybe HSUPA will become available with future ROM updates from HTC?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suspect this will have a lot more to do with Microsoft's WM6 not ready to cope with these kind of 3,5G / 3,75G protocols.... (correct me if i'm wrong)
So that should also mean that future upgrades (AKU's i'd suspect) might correct the lack of HSUPA
Interesting - this chipset has HSUPA support by default, but Kaiser doesn't support it (or at least, HTC does not confirm this). Does it mean that Kaiser has limited edition of that chipset, or maybe HSUPA will become available with future ROM updates from HTC?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As per the comment above, I definitely think it is based on the carrier.
The radio on kaiser runs L4/Linux Pistachio microkernel, you can read more information here.
Some pr0n for the linux geeks:
Code:
$ strings kaiser_radio_0x301.nb |grep -i linux
M6500C L4/Linux
L4 Linux
NICTNICTA::Pistachio - built on Jan 23 2007 18:10:22 by [email protected] using gcc version 3.4.1
start_linux_cmd
vmlinux != NULL
vmlinux
vmlinux igms_name=ramdisk root=/dev/igms0
start_linux
The radio on kaiser runs L4/Linux Pistachio microkernel, you can read more information here.
Some pr0n for the linux geeks:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for this info! I am reading over it now.
im a bit confused on how it could run the l4 microkernel and windows 6 on it. I was hoping that I could somehow flash the device with a Linux embedded bootloader - > load a kernel that has support for both of these arm cpu's and board -> then load driver modules for all of the different radios and interfaces and drop some minimalistic OS on top of that. Does anyone know the feasibility of accomplishing something like this? Also how the l4 linux kernel can run side by side with wm6?
Think of the radio interface as a computer inside an another computer (the phone itself). The main CPU runs WM6 and interfaces with the radio which runs an embedded linux.
Wrong, on most phones you are correct, they have a cpu and the seperate communications processor. But the kaiser is unique in using the communications processor as the primary CPU for the entire device. So unless there is a seperate arm core (dual core?) inside it, how is it running both linux and wm?
That's the thing that is very interesting. Looking at the diagram the msm7200 board seems to have an ARM11 and an ARM9 cpu on it.
I coudlv'e sworn someone said that it might be a dual core...
KaiserLinux said:
Also how the l4 linux kernel can run side by side with wm6?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They can share address space on the same CPU,
wince is a 25bit OS.
Do you have the Kaiser phone ? Can you run haret on it ?
On handhelds.org it's mentioned that a guy named Kevin has modded the source code of haret for the MSM7500 chip. It's not working yet (internals of the chip is unknown), only the CPU gets detected. (more info: http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/HaRET)
KaiserLinux said:
As per the comment above, I definitely think it is based on the carrier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HSUPA is mostly being trialled by carriers. Most are still absorbing HSDPA.
Hey - Im a nubee and I was wandering if any of you can help with what you estimate the cost of the Qualcomm MSM7200 SOC to be. Its very impressive!
We are starting a new design and could be interseting.
Shadowmite said:
Wrong, on most phones you are correct, they have a cpu and the seperate communications processor. But the kaiser is unique in using the communications processor as the primary CPU for the entire device. So unless there is a seperate arm core (dual core?) inside it, how is it running both linux and wm?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It still has a seperate communications processor, it's just in the same chip as opposed to a seperate package now. (See other comments).
I think it's something like 400 MHz ARM11 for applications, 274MHz ARM9 for comms.
Android on kaiser?
Lets start an effort to try to run Android on kaiser? I am sure it will be a huge task, but lets give it a shot.
I am not an embedded system expert, but I am sure we can get people to help us, maybe from the google team once we get serious.
Does anyone know when will MS launch this version of OS ? Really would like to test on it or see how does it looks like..
If I understood it right, is the OS still under development. So you will probably not see much from it untill next year.. I guess
jea in half 2010 is release... win7 mobile vs iphone
it will be f**king good
Microsoft will start sending builds to OEMs to begin testing in Q1 2010. WM7 will be released in Q3 2010. I expect to see builds out sometime in Q1....however, I'm not too sure these builds will run on anything presently out besides the HTC HD2 because the CE kernel would have been recompiled for ARMv7 cores.
and that will be great. what is coming out from iphone next year to fightfwith android 2.0 and winmo7 ... and ppl will start porting their hd2 to android 2.0 and then to winmo7... lol
In the first place X1 probably can't support WM7
doesnt the 6.5.1 need to be released first?
prodigiez said:
and that will be great. what is coming out from iphone next year to fightfwith android 2.0 and winmo7 ... and ppl will start porting their hd2 to android 2.0 and then to winmo7... lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't forget a few years ago when Ballmer laughed at the iPhone...
I'm not buying one but I would never underestimate the competition whether I was MS, Apple or whoever.
Latests news of wm7 I read is q3 2010 too bad really
ipporek said:
In the first place X1 probably can't support WM7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why ? where did u get this info ?
Thought I read somewhere b4 that WM7 would require a motion sensor, which X1 doesn't have. But well, I could be wrong.
I think it will be available for xperia, saw a advertisment of the wm 7 on youtube lol guess which phone popped up? x1
prodigiez said:
why ? where did u get this info ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a very technical requirement.
The Windows CE kernel, very integral part of Windows Mobile, is being compiled for ARMv7 for Windows Mobile 7 (thought to be based on CE6.0 or CE7.0). Currently Windows Mobile 6/6.1/6.5, the CE (CE 5.X) kernel is compiled for ARMv6 which runs on many chipsets today (Qualcomm 720X for example).
ARMv7 architectures (ie. Snapdragon, Cortex A8, NVIDIA Tegra) are backwards compatible with ARMv6 which is why the HTC Touch HD2 (Snapdragon) can run Windows Mobile 6.5. However, ARMv6 architectures (X1, TP1/2, Touch HD, etc) are not compatible with ARMv7 code (missing/different instructions).
So unless a very smart cook can somehow recompile code (need the source code) or combine different parts, there will be no WM7 for any current windows mobile device besides the HTC HD2.
x1 didn't get wm6.5 officially if it will get wm7 which will prob not be out until a year from now don't expect it to come from official sources.....
Min requirements for WM7 is 1Ghz CPU (actually because of the instruction set), but also G-sensor and compass. HD2 maybe. Xperia no way.
Well you say processors like Tegre will be able to run WM 7, but i checken and Tegra is still ARM v6...
Anybody has any real source saying Wm 7 will be only for ARMv7?
As for G-semsor multitouch and sucks, that is all softwere, you can turn this things off, so apat from procesor, nothing else matters for WM7 to run X1, onl ARM v6 code is needed, all else can be done by cooking.
brisschris said:
Hello,
I am brisschris.I am new to this site,but I’ve enjoyed posting in your forums.Microsoft confirmed that it is planning for Windows 7 to hit retail shelves and start showing up on new PCs on October 22.To reach that milestone, Microsoft plans to wrap up development of the operating system by the middle or end of next month.The tech guarantee program is not beginning immediately, but Microsoft did raise the possibility it will offer some sort of lower-cost upgrade to those who are already using Windows Vista.it is "Depending on when we do it there will be the associated accounting for it".
Thank you very much and Stay connected with me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh.... we're talking about Windows Mobile 7, not Windows 7.
Come on Guys!
Please dont speculate about things there was lightyears ahead. Wait untill the time will come. We dont have seen WinMo 6.5 official on X1 yet, therefore we think about other things, which atm is morge important.
with best reguards.
sorry for my poor english
Well lightyears ahead you say, but i am certain i will have WM 7 on Xperia in abaut 3 months XDA does miracles
Certainly the most x1 user will it and im sure that the devs find a way to port it on x1. But except a few screenshots no specification of WinMo 7 was published. Therefore hope that the x1 get an official 6.5 Update. I think, this will reveal the way to WM7.
Hello
Title says it all.
Do you think it is possible to port Nokia's MaemoOS (www.maemo.org) from the new Nokia N900 to hTC devices?
Thanks for answers.
Sopis said:
Hello
Title says it all.
Do you think it is possible to port Nokia's MaemoOS (www.maemo.org) from the new Nokia N900 to hTC devices?
Thanks for answers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
What are the difference with it and Winmo, Android,...?
that's hot!
im curious too about maemo...
i've taked a look on the web,but i found nothing....
It's Debian based running Hildon-Desktop on top...
With enough devs doesn't seem too hard to port, we already got Linux Kernel running on some PDA's it's mostly an Hildon-Desktop doing the rest.
Would be interesting indeed, I am currently waiting for Android to the HD, but Maemo would be nice too ! And I think I am not the only one.
Sopis said:
Hello
Title says it all.
Do you think it is possible to port Nokia's MaemoOS (www.maemo.org) from the new Nokia N900 to hTC devices?
Thanks for answers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is community driven edition of Maemo called Mer. It is fully open source and it should in theory be possible to run it on blackstones at the moment. But it is not that usable/fully polished as Maemo 5 on Nokia n900. HTC Touch Pro is already mentioned on http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Status.
PS. I'm following UPS delivery of my n900, will have it on monday
Don't forget that the N900 is a really powerfull device with alot more "oempf" then our HD's.
I think that as an linux distributable, android is allot more qaulified for our HD's then Meamo will ever be
Thank you all for very good replies
I did not think that this would make such an interest...hope more people will read this and maybe some DEVs too
probably yes, but given the time and effort required, it would be easier to just have people buy an n900. poeple choose a blackstone because they want winmo/tf3d or whatever
i like to think it like this - if someone found a way to attach a coffee machine to a blackstone, id be interested, but given the time and effort required to get it to work (not to mention practical) i wouldnt be too fussed. anyone who wanted coffee machine functionality might have bought the wrong device
id say lets android working first then maybe work on other linux OSs would be easier
A couple of things:
By default Mer uses LXDE as its desktop but you can switch to Hildon (the n900 UI) using update-alternatives (Google it).
However Hildon uses Clutter which uses GL, and it all runs on Xorg, so unless there's a hardware 3D driver for Xorg for your device you're going to be out of luck I think (unless you like horribly slow and jerky UIs). Afaik there isn't an accellerated 3D Xorg driver for Raphael. Not certain but pretty sure.
Hey all has anyone been secretly working on the wp7 rom for the X1? if so lets start a thread for it
i don't think its been leaked yet, has it?
Well I dont know if anybody is working but I trying to make this theme
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=633755
I love to have WP7 on SEX1 (if it is possible)
I guess hardware requirements wont let you to function smoothly but chefs here can save us with a barebone edition of WP7
Cheers
i hate to break it to u guys, but we don have a proper OEMXip and drivers from wm6.5 which is the same CE version as 6.1
how do u expect a XIP + oemdriver for wm7 when its completely different driver set + newer version of CE.
n lets no forget the touch capacity screen requirement of wm7
so unless MS decides so make it backward compatible to older device, i just don see it. and knowing MS i don think they will. coz they cant sell just an OS at retail. it comes with a device. so if the old device can run 7, it will mean less sell of newer products will be sold and no company would want that.
agent_47 said:
i hate to break it to u guys, but we don have a proper OEMXip and drivers from wm6.5 which is the same CE version as 6.1
how do u expect a XIP + oemdriver for wm7 when its completely different driver set + newer version of CE.
n lets no forget the touch capacity screen requirement of wm7
so unless MS decides so make it backward compatible to older device, i just don see it. and knowing MS i don think they will. coz they cant sell just an OS at retail. it comes with a device. so if the old device can run 7, it will mean less sell of newer products will be sold and no company would want that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that's correct.
But can't you guys, extract WM6.5 drivers out of the xperia X2? The hardware is almost 95% the same as our beloved X1 D), right?
sadly we wont be getting windows phone 7
but there are rumors that microsoft is making a sucessor to the 6.5.X line. I really do hope so! CE is soooooo old! and the new 6.X better not be CE.
****head said:
Yes, that's correct.
But can't you guys, extract WM6.5 drivers out of the xperia X2? The hardware is almost 95% the same as our beloved X1 D), right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like if the X2 will ever get wm7, stop dreaming
So X2 drivers are useless for wm7 because the drivers are ment for wm6.5
allenx1 said:
and the new 6.X better not be CE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This doesn't make any sense.
I dont understand this CE thing...can't we update it..AFAIK, its a software version rite???so can't we have it updated on X1???
Pointless in discussing now, as no WP7 betas out... no one knows the final min specs...
might be 1ghz processor with tegra required...
microsoft did say in all the video's i've watched that the min specs will be quite high to ensure that user experience is rich.
x1-xda said:
This doesn't make any sense.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
meaning the new 6.X should not be based on CE
ryousuke said:
Pointless in discussing now, as no WP7 betas out... no one knows the final min specs...
might be 1ghz processor with tegra required...
microsoft did say in all the video's i've watched that the min specs will be quite high to ensure that user experience is rich.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I happened to see some windows 7 add on youtube which has a pyramid hovering over all users... and i think the guy is using windows 7 phone operating series (or whatever they call it) ..... the good thing about it is that the guy is using an xperia X1. Now i know that there is a good chance the screens were added post recording and are all fake... but lets all just keep our hopes high and fingers crossed
i'm not very sure about drivers. We have seen that htc devices are quite similar about hardware so maybe possible, as we are already doing with wm 6.5, to use drivers of other devices.
cant we update the CE..
circleofomega said:
cant we update the CE..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you mean update the CE to CE7 then No, as stated above it is pointless to even be discussing this right now since we don't even have the proper hardware/drivers to even run WP7 properly and the beta isn't even out yet, your just going to have to wait for 6.6.
If you guys want WP7 so badly try upgrading to new hardware.
l0rdsheva said:
i'm not very sure about drivers. We have seen that htc devices are quite similar about hardware so maybe possible, as we are already doing with wm 6.5, to use drivers of other devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, but like if they build an htc with such low-end hardware like the xperia for such a high-end os like windows phone 7, no way thats gonna happen. No way they are gonna beat iPhone then.
l0rdsheva said:
i'm not very sure about drivers. We have seen that htc devices are quite similar about hardware so maybe possible, as we are already doing with wm 6.5, to use drivers of other devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We are not using drivers from other phones. Atleast not the whole OEM shizzle. Drivers(except some video drivers etc) are device specific and can't be used on other devices
min specs for WP7 is quite high... i read snapdragon +1Ghz CPU would be required...
credit to msoft for raising the bar (ensuring user experience will be similar all round)
sadly this means that our qualcomm 528mhz processor + ati graphics might not cut it...
While this does make wp7 look nice with the high specs, it would also make the phones more expensive. Though, snapdragon should be cheaper by then.
WP7-lite for us 528mhz people!
Hey.
I noticed, that the Omnia 7's and the SGS's specs are just the same, and I wonder if it could be possible to port WP7 to SGS. What do you think? I'm not a programmer, so I can't do anything for it, just aksing.
Android = Open source, developper friendy os
Widnows = Closed source, licensed used.
altouch might be doable, since phone with WM6 got 6.5 (HTC Vogue or the likes), I assume if all the drivers are available it would be.
BTW: Question already asked and answered many time, you can always use the "search" fonction
A custom bootloader to start up WP7 would need to be created. You can start Android on Windows Mobile hardware because of Haret.
It also looks like Microsoft standardized the 1GHz Qualcomm QSD8250 Snapdragon chips for all WP7 hardware at the moment (yes, even Samsung's devices, you'd think they'd want to use their own Hummingbird) in order to reduce fragmentation. The S5PC110 in our Galaxy S's uses completely different hardware drivers and compiling them to be compatible with WP7 would probably be quite an effort or impossible.
If at at all possible development would begin on QSD8250 handsets like the HTC Nexus One or Desire. Maybe we'll see more developments as WP7 begins trickling out but I have my doubts.